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謝謝委員我們一起來關心台灣進入超高齡社會種種的問題那我們既有的政策就是長照3.0我也知道這個我不再重複另外我們昨天推出了獨居老人這個也是我們後續作文的一部分另外我們也日前推出老宅延壽"},{"start":317.702,"end":330.772,"text":"除了房屋是老的之外裡面也針對一些長者增加他裡面可能是剛我提到有電梯的一個協助輔導補助他能夠來更新種種另外在這個建築物裡面"},{"start":332.212,"end":361.165,"text":"樓梯降低整個樓梯的高度這個也是對老人的尊重 降低兩公分他就差很多另外在重要的地方要求增加這個安全的扶手這個都是建築法規可以處理另外就是 院長剛剛您提到的我知道比如說大概都是這個部分 比如說你剛講的電梯這個老宅延售事實上我們知道很多地方他有這樣子的一個需求但因為空間不足他可能也沒有辦法即使政府願意補助他也沒有辦法所以看起來都是比較"},{"start":363.402,"end":377.628,"text":"點的部分的一個設施那本席今天要跟您談的就是說是不是可以一個整體的規劃跨部會的因為這個可能你剛講的這個可能遍布在不同的部會那所以在這邊呢就是本席是希望具體的建議卓院長就是說第一個"},{"start":378.348,"end":399.834,"text":"我有三個建議第一個就是修正都市計劃法將開發案需要納入高齡友善跟全齡共榮的評估的一個機制第二個就是建立高齡友善跟全齡共榮的評估的審議指標將這個步行生活圈跟照顧設施比例強化社區這個支持網路等等規劃進去真正的以人為本來規劃"},{"start":400.834,"end":422.572,"text":"第三個就是推動全鄰共融社區的認證跟獎勵制度以容積獎勵引導民間真正的投入全鄰住宅的建設那這樣子的一個空間規劃就是不只能預防失能更可以減輕未來的醫療的負擔那院長是不是覺得這樣子的一個方向是不是可行就是整個跨部會的成立一個專案小組"},{"start":423.371,"end":447.359,"text":"委員題這三點都是重點都需要去了解跟我們未來來解決另外還有跟交通的問題也很多那這個我們會請政委這個政委應該可以請陳時中政委跟陳新德政委雙政委都來了解也來督促各部會先來做剛剛是整個盤點現在已經有的政策如何把它落實未來還要多增加整合在一起我覺得相對的很重要否則對於民眾來說"},{"start":448.559,"end":472.369,"text":"我因為需要跑這個部會 需要跑那個部會其實我覺得大家沒有辦法好好的整合也希望院長大概多久可以具體的提出這樣的一個時程我們可以在兩個禮拜之內就請政委來討論這個事情讓它形成一個可行未來的方向可行未來的方向到推動大概需要多久的時間我看"},{"start":473.923,"end":497.809,"text":"請政委來研究之後我們把時程跟委員來做報告那可能 既然我知道院長非常的重視這個超高齡社會的問題我現在一個月一定會跟委員講出一個我們現在要做的方式謝謝院長 就一個月之內我想讓我們可以知道說是不是可以這樣子來去推動那另外呢再請教院長就是說2024年的本席在第一次質詢院長的時候我曾經反映過"},{"start":499.55,"end":522.467,"text":"部長不好意思我下一個問題因為跟國防部有關所以說是謝謝部長就是有質詢過有關國軍對海涉及的牧林回饋的相關的一個這個經費的問題那也感謝這個院長那時候交辦之後國防部在去年就已經修正的這個牧林要點那也規定對海涉及的牧林經費回饋應該30%由漁會來規劃執行70%"},{"start":527.87,"end":551.424,"text":"給這個地方的公所那真正的落實海上漁業資源的賦予跟漁業設施的建設但是同樣的一個狀況這是國防部那現在中科院也有這樣子一個對海涉及的演訓的部分那他是在屏東九鵬基地進行對海演訓的試射飛彈那光在114年你可以看一下這張統計表"},{"start":552.452,"end":565.04,"text":"他在114年在台東海域基地在屏東他在台東海域進行了27次總共74天的這個演習74天是什麼概念就是大概有五分之一的時間都在演習"},{"start":565.985,"end":593.48,"text":"這還不包括可能因為颱風可能因為氣候不佳還有其他的因素他沒辦法還有就是不是魚訊期的時間他沒辦法出海所以呢因為嚴重的而且因為這段這個二十七十四天的演習是禁止漁民進入這個公告的區域來進行這個捕撈漁獲的動作所以呢對於這個部分其實嚴重影響你可以看一下這個這個範圍喔你可以看到"},{"start":594.38,"end":619.216,"text":"它所劃設的這個禁止漁民進入公告海域的這個部分你看它包含到綠島 蘭嶼幾乎把台東的海域全部都框起來了但是呢它只有補助在基地所在地的屏東屏東在地的公所那對受限制影響最大的台東地區的漁民跟漁業是完全沒有牧林回饋的"},{"start":620.65,"end":649.524,"text":"這顯然就非常的不合理一樣是對海涉及一樣是限制漁民捕魚但中科院跟國防部的做法是完全不一樣那我想其實基於國家安全我想漁民都很願意配合做這樣子的演訓跟國防但是因為捕魚是有季節性的所以說現在我們看到漁民不只要看以前只要看天吃飯現在還要看炮火吃飯就是如果這段時間是有這個炮彈涉及的時間我們是沒有辦法"},{"start":650.203,"end":673.256,"text":"這個出海捕魚的所以既然國防部已經有修正了這個牧林要點是不是能夠要求中科院也比照國防部辦理那依據這個中科院的牧林經費的這個要點同樣將30%的費用撥由漁會來規劃不要讓就同樣支持國防的漁民有這個因為演訓單位的不同而有差別的待遇"},{"start":674.329,"end":689.302,"text":"部長現狀先說明我想可能委員關切的是我們就募領的那個費用部分是不是要交給漁會的這個部分那我的印象沒有錯的話應該是說要看這個"},{"start":692.95,"end":719.602,"text":"它是不是屬於那個有涉及到基地所在地是嗎對但我要跟您看過去確實國防部的部分是這樣它是依基地所在地那因為事實上這個案子比較特殊是因為國防部的都是對海涉及是近距離的它這個是對高空的砲彈涉及所以它為什麼明明在屏東它框起來的海域是在台東就是因為它是對高空的砲彈涉及"},{"start":720.598,"end":746.885,"text":"所以說他把台東的海域也都框起來那這段時間這個台東的漁民是沒有辦法到這個地方去捕魚的那但是因為我就說單位的不同啊如果依照國防部的這個目的要點的話是可以由這個已經修正為就是百分之三十給漁會去規劃執行百分之七十給在地的公所可是呢中科院目前不是目前是受損的是憑台東的漁民台東地區的漁會"},{"start":747.956,"end":768.208,"text":"台東地區的漁民可是他去補助的是只有給屏東的這個在地的公所這個我想我們可能需要研究一下也就是說委員所關切的是可能在九孔河要打的可能很多都是遠距的這個要不然他不用荒了台東這麼大的一個海域嗎是不是要看他這個"},{"start":769.368,"end":786.018,"text":"對,所以在這邊我要請教的就是說,請市院長,就是說這個部分是不是能夠請中科院也比照國防部的這個目的要點來做?我們下去就這個部分,我們來做個研討,然後來跟委員做回顧。院長,您覺得,您剛剛這樣聽起來,您覺得這樣公平嗎?"},{"start":788.52,"end":808.139,"text":"國軍必要的演練各種的操演我想感謝國人也非常的支持但難免有一些對人民這個生活不便的地方所以我們盡量減少但一旦有發生這種無論是生活或是他的魚捕魚的過程產生了損害那國防部已經有一套對農會 漁會以及地方"},{"start":811.162,"end":837.746,"text":"公所的一套標準那一個國家應該一個標準一國應該一個標準我希望國防部我們跟中科院來協調一下在經費相同寬容的一個狀況底下能不能採取這樣同一個標準我們來協調謝謝謝謝院長然後另外就是剛剛也提到就是說他去年的這個對海涉及的時間就高達74天大概有五分之一所以是不是也是能夠請中科院跟國防部"},{"start":838.566,"end":847.309,"text":"盡量避免在餘孫期的時候去做這樣的演習當然如果一定必要的那沒話講盡量避開這個部門我們都有持續在檢討有跟這個來溝通就是說避免掉這個他們重要的餘孫的期間這樣子那不過有些時候"},{"start":861.353,"end":886.546,"text":"對 當然就是說如果是進軍需要的那當然沒話講但是進軍備戰的需要有時候所以說就是剛剛講就是盡量避免要不然剛剛講到的是光去年就已經五分之一的時間是在這個禁止他們去捕魚那第三個就是剛剛提到就是說剛剛講的就是我們禁止海域剛剛講九鵬基地在屏東但禁止海域在台東那希望台東的魚"},{"start":887.894,"end":910.202,"text":"台中地區的漁會也可以得到相同的牧林回饋來解決這個不公平我們下去來即刻進行研議像剛剛院長已經有指示了一個國家應該一個做法那在這邊也感謝院長願意明快的處置我們也希望能夠盡快的來處理那請問一下部長大概需要多久的時間"},{"start":913.822,"end":939.814,"text":"給我差不多三個禮拜吧好謝謝謝謝部長好謝謝然後另外再請教院長有關能源相關的問題因為我想這幾天大家都非常關心的其實就是我們這個天然氣進口問題因為伊朗戰爭的關係那導致我們的天然氣現在沒有辦法這個能夠這個因為封鎖荷姆茲海峽沒有辦法進來那尤其我們99%的天然氣都是靠進口"},{"start":940.233,"end":961.276,"text":"那用在發電上面又高達八成所以天然氣一旦中斷不是沒有瓦斯的問題而已而是缺電的問題那當然我們現在看到的就是我們的安全存量因為只有11天那現在因為其實從伊朗封鎖荷姆在海峽到現在已經21天大概已經三週的時間了所以呢"},{"start":962.34,"end":980.166,"text":"對台灣的衝擊其實相當巨大那當然就供應面來說的話我想經濟部也有提過就是說我們3月的有釣到了大概12艘船嘛4月份有釣到大概10艘船那請問5月份現在有釣到幾艘船呢"},{"start":982.843,"end":1001.982,"text":"我跟委員報告一下現在5月份我們需要14艘船那現在已經掉到10艘船所以345到現在應該已經掉了32艘船了嘛那因為我們知道就是說因為現在有針對這個因為供需緊繃跟地緣政治的一個風險的關係現貨的LNG的價格可能會比我們常約多30%到100%"},{"start":1007.23,"end":1016.752,"text":"那現在您調到的這32部的這個LNG船的話每一部我想請教一下就是實際增加的成本會是多少"},{"start":1018.962,"end":1044.373,"text":"這個我們可能還要再精算一下那我記得之前我有聽到這個拱部長因為他今天沒有來 他是說8到10億對 差不多這個數字8到10億嘛或許會越來越偏高對 因為現在的整個局勢看起來好像戰爭沒有要結束的感覺那因為這樣子的話 總共目前已經掉了32艘嘛那大概8到10億也大概會增加將近300億喔"},{"start":1046.417,"end":1063.384,"text":"院長剛才也提到的就是這個狀況也有可能價格會越來越高然後我們的因為隨著戰爭的時間拉長需求也會可能越來越緊繃所以針對這個部分的話就是說我們現在現貨採購增加的成本是不是會全數轉嫁到台電"},{"start":1064.438,"end":1087.548,"text":"還是由中油吸收?首先跟你們報告三四包括五月已經調到了十燒大概這個價格我們都已經談定就是五月還少那個四燒我們還在現貨市場上去講那這個價格或許會有一點浮動那所有現在我們每週的這個包括汽油也好包括天然氣也好都是由中油來做高大幅度的吸收那因為"},{"start":1088.428,"end":1115.98,"text":"LNG是要提供給台電的發電用的我們也希望台電跟中油能夠有一個當中他們的折算不要把負擔都給中油因為中油資本額才一千多億啊那剛剛踢到光這樣子就已經有三百億了那我想這樣對中油來說也是沉重的負擔那我們正請經濟部去協調讓中油台電也讓台電來做一點吸收為什麼我會問這題呢就是因為接下來四月就要這個有電價的這個是不是要調漲的問題嘛"},{"start":1117.521,"end":1129.976,"text":"所以這個部分如果台電已經有編列了吸收的空間有可能會反映在4月份的電價那我知道這幾天有很多的委員請教院長我們的電價到底會不會動漲"},{"start":1131.96,"end":1149.287,"text":"那院長您的答覆標準答案就是電價審議委員會不過電價審議委員會都跟我們生活在同一個空間感受到同樣的壓力但是我覺得院長你在這邊可以大方的說絕對不會動長我覺得你可以大方說為什麼你知道我分析給你聽"},{"start":1150.347,"end":1174.782,"text":"因為我們的這個電價審議委員會預計在3月27號開會那我們在3月份的天然氣採購價其實在2月底就已經訂定了那這個我們這個伊朗開展是2月28所以那時候還沒有這個問題所以說目前這個4月份的這個燃料的這個燃氣的價格中油會到3月31才公告"},{"start":1175.342,"end":1193.287,"text":"也就是電價審議委員會他們在3月27開會拿到的資料會是原來舊的這個資料所以他根本就沒有辦法看到反映之後的成本的一個價格所以依據現有的這個價格的話我想是應該不會調整電價才對是嗎 院長"},{"start":1197.219,"end":1220.861,"text":"我還是要尊重電價審議委員會否則明天就說政治的零價專業院長我剛剛的分析你覺得有沒有道理就是說他根本手上的資料就是舊的資料啊所以他不可能他不可能就是拿著舊的資料還沒有漲價前的資料告訴你要漲價對不對我們應該在討論的時候台電所以我才說您可以大方的告訴國人四月份的電價不會動漲因為"},{"start":1223.066,"end":1250.98,"text":"電價審議委員會他手上的資料看起來是不可能有這個漲價的問題嘛我是很大方啦但是不能這麼大方啦我要尊重專業但是我剛剛跟你分析的有沒有道理我們在跟電價討論審議委員會提供的資料一定會最接近事實的而且不是現在這一點是未來半年的預估都會放進去那你現在的狀況就是我剛剛講的嘛就是你是不是三月我想請教一下次長是不是三月三十一這個中油"},{"start":1251.667,"end":1269.528,"text":"才會公告這四月份的燃氣價格對因為每個月每個月三月二十七就開會了所以說我剛才跟院長講其實您可以大方的告訴全體的國人因為穩定物價所以我們在接下來我們四月份電價一定會動漲是不是這樣院長"},{"start":1272.148,"end":1300.179,"text":"我不能這樣來不然一定說政治廉價專業但是我們都相信審議委員跟我們在一起生活在這裡以感受國際局勢所以院長的答案其實也告訴我們其實我想四月份大概動漲電價是沒有問題的另外再請教我們以民生安定民生物價穩定安定為最大的原則好 謝謝院長那我們再看到下一個部分這個是在我們可以看到就是有兩個新聞稿"},{"start":1301.769,"end":1331.353,"text":"院長可以看到喔 上面這篇新聞稿喔是2022年2月25號在這個二五戰爭的時候下面這個新聞稿是我們2026年3月2號東東市經濟部發的新聞稿你有沒有覺得其實都很像就是告訴我們說我們會有儲備充足的安全能量同時採多元來源跟長約採購還有呢我們的這個能量供應充足大家不用擔心"},{"start":1332.196,"end":1353.407,"text":"都是這樣嗎這證明政府的政策是穩定的表示就是感覺上就是一樣的新聞稿只是日期不一樣為什麼會這樣問呢是因為在惡霧戰爭的時候當時的經濟部長王美花說我們的能源供應充足所以不會漲電價但是一年後台電虧損了五千億到現在都還在虧損"},{"start":1356.53,"end":1385.512,"text":"到目前為止都還有3500億還沒有補足所以我為什麼要這樣問就是因為現在因為針對剛剛提到這些問題事實上天然氣供應中斷不同的時間會有不同的問題剛剛講我們已經大概已經三週了接下來你們怎麼針對30天或是60天或是90天不同的情境然後成立跨部會的評估然後對於我們台灣的衝擊有多大"},{"start":1387.141,"end":1401.099,"text":"我們在物價穩定小組是持續開會另外經濟部 交通部他們各自有成立一個緊急應變的小組去因應現在每天發生的一個狀況而且每天 兩天 每週都會進行追蹤的討論"},{"start":1402.093,"end":1424.249,"text":"那在這樣子的一個狀況之下就是台灣電力系統會出現多大的發電缺口那政府已經評估好是不是有需要啟動分區限電的機制喔還有在電力的調度上產業用電跟民生用電要如何分配是不是可能啟動產業限電用電配給然後緊急調這個調度高成本的備用電源呢"},{"start":1424.693,"end":1438.847,"text":"三四五六月應該沒有這個狀況跟委員報告我們現在供電供氣都是很穩定的而且目前這個能源的這個調度其實到四月底都沒有問題所以也不會影響到這個供電的這個問題"},{"start":1440.709,"end":1466.578,"text":"那就是成本增加而已就對了因為剛剛講的就是成本增加但是現在的問題就在於說我們因為沒有積載電力因為核能的關係那當然現在已經有說要重啟這個核電那也請教一下就是說我們核三廠的自主安全檢查看起來大概上次有提到說大概1到1.5年的時間那目前的進度也是這樣嗎"},{"start":1468.224,"end":1475.935,"text":"根文報告原來的時程還是不變的如果按照目前來講3月底之前台電會提出自主"},{"start":1483.424,"end":1484.765,"text":"那如果照這樣講的話我們有沒有辦法加速那個自主安全檢查時間"},{"start":1510.779,"end":1531.481,"text":"因為事實上這個對我們來說這個缺電因為戰爭到現在還沒結束會不會有缺電的危機呢事實上我們很難預估那當然我們希望說趕快重啟核電因為這樣的機載電力讓我們能夠有比較穩定而且便宜的電力可以使用那所以相對來說現在算是緊急狀況所以是不是可以縮短這個我們自主安全檢查的時間"},{"start":1532.749,"end":1553.74,"text":"這個自主安全檢查的部分我們是有按照這個步驟來做我知道步驟但是同樣的嘛一天工作8小時跟一天工作12個小時跟一天工作12個小時那個速度會不一樣那緊急狀況之下是不是應該要加速這樣子的一個狀況我想我們會轉達請台電這邊就是來加速做這個自主安全檢查"},{"start":1553.94,"end":1579.075,"text":"但是還是要按照這樣的一個步驟當然安全性我們都支持但是事實上現在也算是一個這個非常時期緊急狀況所以像這樣的一個狀況的話那請問一下就是說核三廠一二號的機組最快什麼時候可以併完供電我遇到按照我們這樣的實証的規劃在二零二八年年底左右"},{"start":1580.556,"end":1603.738,"text":"2028年年底那這樣就是兩年多的時間因為可能還會有一些變數啦因為其實我們核三說實在才剛除役嘛去年的5月17才除役所以這個部分其實我覺得如果政府真的有決心啦要重啟核電的話其實一定會把這個時程可以加快而不是說這個我們照這樣的慢慢一步一步推讓人家會懷疑到底政府有沒有決心要重啟核電"},{"start":1604.423,"end":1624.555,"text":"是 我們會加速但是就是說它裡面還要牽涉到設備有沒有老化的現象那我請教院長針對這個部分政府到底有沒有決心要重啟核電是不是可以加快這樣的速度政府是依照核管法修訂之後才有這個權利去啟動是不是要再重啟那剛剛次長說的經濟部以及台電對於時程的設計他是認為說"},{"start":1629.858,"end":1656.318,"text":"一定要是在這個安全的時間當中進行所有的程序那如果當中在自主安全檢查裡面對於老化設備能夠不做很繁複的而且不需要跟動大量的設備那時程當然可以有彈性是不是院長可以請我們相關的單位能夠去研擬如何加快這樣子的一個速度我們第一要求的是安全第二個要求才是效率"},{"start":1656.998,"end":1665.324,"text":"第三個要求也是希望社會能夠有共識因為我們知道現在事實上AI的發展的話全世界都在搶這種"},{"start":1667.112,"end":1691.196,"text":"穩定又便宜的電力所以我們要爭取AI的產業來到台灣投資事實上這樣一個穩定便宜的機載電力提供給他們讓他們無缺電的問題才能夠真的吸引到這些AI的產業來到台灣投資所以請院長這個部分要好好的再來督導我們相關的單位好好的對於重啟這個核電的部分能夠加速研議進行院長是不是可行"},{"start":1691.618,"end":1712.813,"text":"是在核管法這樣修法之後提供了一個多項一個多一項的選項那這項選項我們要滿足所有條件之後我們希望他能夠讓我們本來就不是發電供電有愧於之餘的這個狀況底下我們更有充分的餘裕加速他的速度讓我們的這個沒有缺電的這樣子的一個風險跟危機是好謝謝"},{"start":1714.773,"end":1736.813,"text":"院長然後最後一個問題我想請教您就是有關喔這是我們您看一下這個表這是我們在2022年到2026年的這個我們的志願役預算原額的一個統計喔您可以看到我花了一點時間做這樣的一個統計喔那我們可以看到2026年的志願役原額與2023年相比少了17439人"},{"start":1739.756,"end":1760.245,"text":"那我們現在呢因為還要這個通過1.25兆的就是你們提出的1.25兆的這個國防特別預算喔那相較於國防特別預算我們的國軍基層人力招募很困難那尤其是你可以看到喔我們尤其是像下士他是真正要帶兵打仗的還有像上等兵"},{"start":1761.566,"end":1787.006,"text":"他是真正能夠熟悉操作武器的人就少了一萬三千多人所以我們可以看到國防支出的增加就是並沒有真正轉化為人力結構的改善所以讓很多的年輕人他根本不願意來擔任我們的軍人因為他到別的地方去去科技業 工程業 服務業他們的啟興跟發展都會優於軍職所以他們還要承擔這種高度的機率長時間的勤務跟潛在的戰爭風險"},{"start":1788.948,"end":1810.797,"text":"所以很多年輕人說我還不如去跑Uber那還比我當軍人強就缺乏那種待遇跟職業發展的一個競爭性所以說請院長看一下就是說在這個部分我們是不是針對我們的這個軍人的待遇的部分能夠有一個通盤的減少尤其是我們在這個過去的10年這個基本工資漲了40%"},{"start":1813.058,"end":1825.185,"text":"然後我們的這個軍人漲幅只有14%事實上讓我們很多的軍人都覺得我還是提早離役不要有這樣子的這個跟委員報告我想剛剛那個預算迎合的這樣用預算迎合"},{"start":1869.511,"end":1884.646,"text":"謝謝 現在感覺像開機密會議一樣根本聽不到你們在講什麼 好不好因為時間的關係實在是沒辦法 好不好謝謝徐委員那把徐委員要的資料請國防部送一份給徐委員好嗎好 謝謝徐宇人委員 謝謝卓院長香港部會首長悲尋"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}