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我想主要詐騙是過去很多人對所謂的虛擬資產第一個印象那確實是過去它有很高度的匿名性那這部分而且在國際之間進行移轉那其實我們在這個當立法以後基本上第一個必須要做好嚴格的KYC就是誰來跟你做交易基本上這個帳戶這個錢包是誰的這個比如說這個交易平台跟你往來之間必須要知道"},{"start":90.951,"end":117.503,"text":"這就是我覺得這個非常重要像剛剛委員提到就是說過去現金跟虛擬資產之間的交易形成斷點我們在這邊也做了規範還有就是說基本上在實體跟虛擬之間必須透過我們監管的銀行跟我們的監管金融機構跟這個虛擬服務業者合作的時候我們可以透過這樣的方式來進行所謂的管制還有就是未來金流的部分怎麼樣流動都必須要申報我想這些都是"},{"start":118.443,"end":127.971,"text":"很重要再來就是我們會透過國際合作的方式來進行這樣的一個防炸的工作另外你現在一開始是"},{"start":129.008,"end":152.327,"text":"主要是讓合法業者來申請然後組工會然後業者自主管理然後希望他們能夠提升管理的水準你覺得這個未來走的方向如果你說讓台灣的投資者對於這個有信心的話我認為最後最後的體系是不是走到類似交易所這樣的制度"},{"start":159.496,"end":176.566,"text":"其實跟委員報告就是說其實上我們現在以我們現在的現有的這八家的經營形態裡面有大概四五家申請所謂的平台商他基本上就已經有類似我們的交易所的概念其實整個交易所是我們未來監管非常重點因為它是一個買進賣出跟資金資產移動的節點"},{"start":179.187,"end":203.581,"text":"那這部分的話當然這是在管理上也是特別的完整以及就是嚴格啦那當然這是一個市場機制當然透過比如說由公營或是高度監管的方式那當然對未來的管控是比較好但是我們現在看國際上大部分這些都不是由政府來管控不過即便是民營的交易所基本上到最後的話也是要受到非常高度的監理因為"},{"start":204.842,"end":227.464,"text":"無論是在英國或是無論在美國人家的交易本來就是他們就沒有像我們台灣這樣子的這個公家來弄交易所的制度啦我現在是講說那個信賴的問題你一開始事先這樣管理那這樣我們了解未來如果你有這個方向我們現在證交所啦OTC啦還有奇交所這些都是"},{"start":228.445,"end":250.392,"text":"至少在台灣的民眾相信說這是政府準公家在監控的單位所以那樣的管理讓大家的信心是比較足的你如果讓業者自主的管理信心度的那個是會有我個人認為會有差啦那所以我的想像是說你現在一開始先初步這樣管理"},{"start":251.112,"end":255.255,"text":"其實在初始階段我們市場上從登記制到現在我們市場上已經有一些經營業者在經營只是說現在我們過去是所謂類高度監理那現在會變成是真實高度監理"},{"start":276.047,"end":292.13,"text":"在這個過程當中 剛才委員講就是說其實整個去中心化金融裡面在國際的發展趨勢很明顯的中心化提供了信任比如政府的立法的管理還有就是透過政府公權力的介入都會產生一般民眾信任"},{"start":292.811,"end":318.544,"text":"的來源這也是其實某種程度也有助於這樣這個產業的發展我覺得剛剛委員提到我們是持開放的態度來針對這未來市場的發展不過我們現在先以市場秩序跟整個就是我們交易人的保護為主要的立法的目標好那因為你花了這麼大的力氣監管那如果能夠將來成立交易所"},{"start":320.011,"end":338.074,"text":"公家的交易所將來很多年以後至少在政府的稅收上面也會有幫助你看現在我們的證券交易事實上因為政府我們是用採收證交稅的方式但是因為交易有一大那政府的稅收也能夠得到一些保障"},{"start":339.444,"end":362.142,"text":"那所以制度當然跟其他國家政所制度不太一樣但是每一個國家有他自己的做法那我在想說如果能夠長期來成立的話長期的方向如果是這樣的話對台灣的未來也是會有所注意第一個提升投資者的信任度公信力第二個因為交易所如果是掌握在政府的手裡"},{"start":363.598,"end":385.975,"text":"至少可以很多方面的公式公信資訊這方面的那個要求的公開跟透明會比較高然後對交易者來講也會比較有保障好那我再請教你的問題因為我最近我們的服務處遇到的那個金融消費平益中心他平益完的案件銀行不遵守"},{"start":387.27,"end":413.12,"text":"那你這樣子金融消費評議中心評議幹嘛他沒有存在的必要啊照理來講金融消費評議中心評議了如果當事人不服可以去法院告這是我了解問題那個是跟銀行之間有法律能力跟資訊的落差現在是評議了消費者接受銀行不接受那怎麼會有這樣的狀況所以我想這個"},{"start":415.223,"end":432.119,"text":"剛剛我們局長跟總經理也在,是不是請他們簡單來回答一下?各位報告,那個個案是TRF,TRF是不在評議中心的法效率裡面但是呢,這個部分我們也會跟評議中心密切聯絡只要是評議中心調處的案件,我們都會一件一件來檢視"},{"start":433.442,"end":451.943,"text":"他這個事情很離譜第一個是第一次調處那一間銀行我不要點名那一間銀行對金融消費平息中心憑說要賠12%12%已經很低了DRF對台灣的損害傷害很大結果那一間銀行完全不理他"},{"start":453.084,"end":479.107,"text":"就後來他再申請第二次評議評議還是說應該要還那一部分這次評議降到10%只還他10%陳清仁也沒有意見啊說那你就照評議中心的評議處理就銀行還是不遵守如果這樣子的狀況一再的發生的話那你金融消費者評議中心就關門就好啦你的評議今天不是當事人不接受不是陳清仁不接受是你銀行不接受"},{"start":480.851,"end":509.301,"text":"那這樣子的話那金融消費平益中心給人家的感受就是找你也沒有用啊是不是會有這樣的狀況是 更委員幫過去285件裡面絕大多數銀行其實都會接受那對於少數沒有辦法接受的部分我們會跟平益中心來聯繫我們會一件一件來釐清銀行該負的責任就是要負責那了解清楚好不好我覺得平益中心坦白講如果照規定你們是找了一些專家來嘛"},{"start":510.1,"end":538.878,"text":"然後來評議他會做出評議而且陳述真的是不高那這樣的評議我相信有相當的道理那這個被評議的對象就是陳經理來陳情來申請然後相對對照是銀行你知道那個權利義務是大家的那個是不對等的喔銀行是他無論在法律能力無論在各方面他都明顯告於這個當事人嘛那"},{"start":539.98,"end":552.234,"text":"金融消費評議中心所做的評議屢次不遵守然後一副不奈他何這個樣子那這樣子你們的法治是不是你覺得有沒有檢討的地方呢"},{"start":552.938,"end":569.906,"text":"是因為這個部分目前是就是緊急於調處但即便是調處也是陳如委員所說的這是評議中心所做出來的決定那非常具有高度的一個專業跟公信力那這個部分個案上我們會找銀行來就是來跟我們說明清楚"},{"start":570.831,"end":592.11,"text":"好 謝謝 當然當年的TRF這個危害到現在還沒有完全解決啦剩下少數 數量不多的個案希望今晚會能夠努力因為我在第九屆立委的時候我列管要求他每個月要給我一個報表看你們已經解決了多少那現在已經第十一屆了 這麼多年了那"},{"start":593.532,"end":615.729,"text":"這個尾巴剩下不多如果你們能夠處理完至少也告訴國人說我們DIF所有的生意都解決了這對我們國人來講說至少當年的錯誤已經有被矯正了至少被治療了一部分那個彭主委可不可以啊我們再繼續努力啦所以剛剛局長已經說了他會全力來協調這件事情好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:25:30.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:25:32.454000+08:00","text":"主席，麻煩請金管會彭主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-23T09:25:33.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:25:34.455000+08:00","text":"請金管會彭主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T09:25:37.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:25:38.476000+08:00","text":"委員早安。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:25:38.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:25:38.476000+08:00","text":"主委早。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:25:39.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:25:57.721000+08:00","text":"今天討論虛擬資產管理的法案，剛剛大家也都提到，最重要的是如何杜絕詐騙，因為虛擬資產是新興的東西，然後很多人被詐騙的態樣有很多。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:25:59.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:26:24.081000+08:00","text":"現在來看以前發生的案例，像去年就發生過好幾件詐騙案件，有ACE王牌交易所詐騙案、幣想案，甚至有很多是投放假的廣告，用名人來詐騙等等，所以你想要用什麼方法比較有可能來防制，至少可以做到壓制、減緩或是杜絕？","quality":0.685},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T09:26:25.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:26:52.792000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，詐騙是過去很多人對所謂虛擬資產的第一個印象，確實過去它有很高度的匿名性，而且在國際之間進行移轉，其實當立法以後，基本上第一個必須要做好嚴格的KYC，就是誰來跟你做交易；這個帳戶、這個錢包是誰的；這個交易平臺跟你的往來之間等等，必須要知道，這是我覺得非常重要的。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T09:26:52.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:27:22.927000+08:00","text":"像剛剛委員提到的，過去現金跟虛擬資產之間的交易形成斷點，我們在這邊也做了規範；還有就是實體跟虛擬之間必須透過我們監管的銀行、我們監管的金融機構跟虛擬服務業者在合作的時候，可以透過這樣的方式來進行所謂的管制，還有未來金流的部分，只要有流動都必須要申報，我想這些都是很重要的；再來就是我們會透過國際合作的方式來進行防詐的工作。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:27:24.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:27:52.307000+08:00","text":"另外，你現在一開始主要是讓合法業者來申請，然後組公會、業者自主管理，希望他們能夠提升管理的水準，你覺得未來走的這個方向，如果你是要讓臺灣的投資者對於這部分有信心的話，我認為最後、最後的體系是不是走到類似交易所這樣的制度？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:27:52.307000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T09:27:59.616000+08:00","text":"有沒有可能走到用公家交易所這樣子的制度？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T09:27:59.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:28:12.143000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，以我們現有這八家的經營型態來看，裡面大概有四、五家申請所謂的平臺商，基本上這就已經有類似我們交易所的概念。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T09:28:12.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:28:25.251000+08:00","text":"其實整個交易所是我們未來監管上一個非常重要的重點，因為他是買進、賣出跟資金資產移動的一個節點，這部分當然在管理上也是要特別的完整以及嚴格。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T09:28:26.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:28:42.881000+08:00","text":"基本上，這是一個市場機制，透過比如說公營或是高度監管的方式，當然對未來的管控是比較好，但是我們現在看到國際上大部分的情況都不是由政府來管控，不過，即便是民營的交易所，到最後也是要受到非常高度的監理。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:28:44.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:28:53.270000+08:00","text":"無論是在英國或是美國，人家的交易本來就沒有像我們臺灣這樣子由公家來弄交易所的制度。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:28:53.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:29:30.372000+08:00","text":"我現在講的是信賴的問題，你一開始是先這樣來做管理，我們可以了解，未來如果你有這個方向，像我們現在證交所、OTC還有期交所，這些機構至少臺灣的民眾都會相信，這是政府、準公家在監控的單位，所以那樣子的管理讓大家的信心是比較足夠的，屆時如果你讓業者自主管理，信心度的部分我個人認為會有差，所以我的想像是，現在一開始、初步先這樣管理，子法等等都去訂出來，大家就這樣走，但是走到一定程度之後，有沒有可能公家來成立一個虛擬資產的交易所？","quality":0.658},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T09:29:31.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:29:35.235000+08:00","text":"我想未來什麼都有可能，但是在初始階段，從登記制到現在，我們市場上已經有一些經營業者在經營，只是過去是所謂類高度監理，現在則是變成真正高度監理。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T09:29:56.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:30:17.333000+08:00","text":"在這個過程當中，剛剛委員講的整個去中心化金融裡面，在國際發展趨勢很明顯的中心化提供的信任，比如說政府立法管理，還有就是透過政府公權力的介入，都會是產生一般民眾信任的來源，某種程度也有助於這個產業的發展。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T09:30:18.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:30:31.940000+08:00","text":"我覺得剛剛委員提到的，我們是持開放的態度來針對未來市場的發展，不過我們現在先以市場秩序跟交易人的保護為主要立法目標。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:30:31.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:30:45.098000+08:00","text":"好，因為你花了這麼大的力氣監管，在很多年以後，如果將來能夠成立公家的交易所，至少政府在稅收上面也會有幫助。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:30:46.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:31:06.109000+08:00","text":"你看現在我們的證券交易，事實上，政府是採收證交稅的方式，但是因為交易額一大，政府的稅收也能夠得到一些保障，當然跟其他國家證所稅的制度不太一樣，但是每一個國家有自己的做法。對。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:31:07.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:31:15.016000+08:00","text":"我在想長期的方向如果是這樣的話，對於臺灣的未來也是會有所助益。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:31:16.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:31:34.206000+08:00","text":"第一個，提升投資者的信任度、公信力；第二個，因為交易所如果是掌握在政府的手裡，至少可以在很多方面像公示、公信、資訊方面要求公開跟透明會比較高，對交易者來講也會比較有保障。是。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:31:36.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:31:50.751000+08:00","text":"我再請教你一個問題，最近我們的服務處遇到在金融消費評議中心評議完的案件，銀行不遵守欸！","quality":0.675},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:31:50.751000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T09:31:51.751000+08:00","text":"那金融消費評議中心幹嘛評議？","quality":0.154},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:31:51.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:31:52.512000+08:00","text":"它沒有存在的必要啊！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:31:53.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:32:00.475000+08:00","text":"照理來講，金融消費評議中心評議了，如果當事人不服，可以去法院告，這是我了解的。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:32:01.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:32:12.839000+08:00","text":"問題是跟銀行之間有法律能力跟資訊的落差，現在是評議了，消費者接受，但銀行不接受，怎麼會有這樣的狀況？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T09:32:15.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:32:18.546000+08:00","text":"剛好我們局長跟總經理也在，是不是請他們簡單來說明？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:32:18.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:32:19.247000+08:00","text":"好，請他們回答一下？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"童局長政彰","start":"2026-03-23T09:32:20.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:32:21.929000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，那個個案是TRF。是啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"童局長政彰","start":"2026-03-23T09:32:22.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:32:32.119000+08:00","text":"TRF是不在評議中心的法效力裡面，但是這個部分我們也會跟評議中心密切聯絡，只要是評議中心調處的案件，我們都會一件一件來檢視。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:32:34.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:33:03.473000+08:00","text":"這個事情很離譜的是第一次調處，我就不點名了，那一間銀行被金融消費評議中心評說要賠12%，12%已經很低了，你知道TRF對臺灣的損害傷得很大，結果那一間銀行完全不理他；後來他再申請第二次評議，評議還是說應該要還他一部分，這次評議降到10%，只還他10%，陳情人也沒有意見啊！","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:33:03.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:33:13.782000+08:00","text":"那就照評議中心的評議處理，但銀行還是不遵守，如果這樣子的狀況一再發生，金融消費者評議中心關門就好啦！","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:33:15.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:33:19.087000+08:00","text":"今天不是陳情人不接受評議，是銀行不接受喔！","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:33:21.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:33:28.674000+08:00","text":"如果這樣子的話，金融消費評議中心給人家的感受就是找你也沒有用，是不是會有這樣的狀況？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"童局長政彰","start":"2026-03-23T09:33:28.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:33:41.838000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，過去285件裡面，絕大多數銀行其實都會接受，對於少數沒有辦法接受的部分，我們會跟評議中心來聯繫，我們會一件一件來釐清，銀行該負的責任就是要負責。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:33:42.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:33:43.119000+08:00","text":"請瞭解清楚，好不好？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:33:43.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:34:12.334000+08:00","text":"坦白講，我覺得評議中心如果照規定，你們是找了一些專家來評議，他們會做出評議，而且成數真的是不高，我相信這樣的評議有相當的道理，被評議的對象也就是陳情人來陳情、來申請，然後對造是銀行，那個權利義務是不對等的喔！","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:34:12.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:34:17.477000+08:00","text":"銀行無論在法律能力、無論在各方面都明顯高於當事人。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:34:19.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:34:32.013000+08:00","text":"對金融消費評議中心所做的評議屢次不遵守，一副無奈他何的樣子，你覺得你們的法制有沒有需要檢討的地方？","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"童局長政彰","start":"2026-03-23T09:34:33.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:34:49.886000+08:00","text":"因為這個部分目前是緊急調處，即便是調處，也誠如委員所說的，這個是評議中心所做出來的決定，非常具有高度的專業跟公信力，在個案上，我們會找銀行來跟我們說明清楚。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:34:50.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:34:51.652000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:34:51.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:35:01.481000+08:00","text":"當然，當年TRF的危害到現在還沒有完全解決，剩下少數數量不多的個案，希望金管會能夠努力。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:35:01.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:35:27.663000+08:00","text":"因為我在第9屆立委的時候，就列管要求它每個月要給我一份報表，看你們已經解決了多少，現在已經第11屆了，這麼多年了，這個尾巴剩下不多了，如果你們能夠處理完，至少也告訴國人TRF所有的爭議都解決了，對我們國人來講，至少當年的錯誤已經有被矯正了、至少被治療了一部分。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:35:29.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:35:32.446000+08:00","text":"彭主委，你們再繼續努力，可不可以啊？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T09:35:32.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:35:35.088000+08:00","text":"剛剛局長已經說了，他會全力來協調這件事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-03-23T09:35:35.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:35:35.709000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝你。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T09:35:35.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T09:35:35.729000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-23T09:35:36.229000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T09:35:40.800429+08:00","text":"謝謝，我們結束第2位吳秉叡召委的質詢。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-23T09:35:41.100429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T09:35:44.814714+08:00","text":"接下來請第3位林岱樺委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}