{"error":false,"id":["167754"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167754,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167754","日期":"2026-03-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-20-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-03-23T09:35:44+08:00","結束時間":"2026-03-23T09:45:55+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:11","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fac85a1267872a8a766f372f702e7418e6927793779d72c5eedb258d1c0d1ac0f3397ef17cf3074c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林岱樺","委員發言時間":"09:35:44 - 09:45:55","會議時間":"2026-03-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：審查本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員林思銘等21人分別擬具「虛擬資產服務法草案」等2案。（僅詢答））","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":2.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.7428437500000005,"end":9.177218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.915343750000002,"end":11.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.902218750000003,"end":19.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.762843750000002,"end":15.505343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.67346875,"end":24.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.84159375,"end":24.567218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.49971875,"end":34.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.418468750000002,"end":31.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.877843750000004,"end":35.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.02096875,"end":41.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.189093750000005,"end":48.664718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.93471875,"end":53.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.08159375,"end":57.625343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.11471875,"end":62.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.56971875000001,"end":69.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.38284375,"end":87.00471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.21971875,"end":120.29909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.67034375,"end":186.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.78659375,"end":212.25096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.07784375,"end":216.90846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.38096875000002,"end":224.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.73846875,"end":249.94971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.32096875000002,"end":259.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.39534375,"end":284.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.94034375,"end":285.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.76284375,"end":285.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.06221875,"end":287.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.00284375,"end":292.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.47471875,"end":314.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.12971875,"end":313.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.36159375,"end":342.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.64409375,"end":343.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.96034375000005,"end":362.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.98284375000003,"end":381.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.89409375,"end":363.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.55846875000003,"end":378.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.85346875000005,"end":380.62971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.99659375000005,"end":387.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.38471875000005,"end":382.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.60346875000005,"end":409.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.46471875000003,"end":432.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.99284375,"end":436.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.38471875000005,"end":445.14284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.24409375000005,"end":449.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.64909375,"end":445.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.13784375,"end":459.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.80721875,"end":460.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.27534375000005,"end":463.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.53659375,"end":465.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.88221875000005,"end":487.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.07284375,"end":493.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.10659375000006,"end":488.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.03471875,"end":489.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.99596875000003,"end":507.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.54346875000005,"end":502.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.96846875000006,"end":515.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.2922187500001,"end":524.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.3159687500001,"end":536.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.91784375,"end":573.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.12471875,"end":561.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.8034687500001,"end":565.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.73034375,"end":576.9197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.3290937500001,"end":579.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.2065937500001,"end":577.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.7422187500001,"end":608.6784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.4253437500001,"end":610.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.17596875,"end":611.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.54721875,"end":611.56409375},{"speake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我們有請主委請鋪主委"},{"start":15.961,"end":32.515,"text":"其實是肯定我們櫃會當中你們去研理了這個虛擬資產服務法但是到底它是我們金融創新的保護傘還是境外巨頭的免死金牌所以也跟你做了一些詢問"},{"start":37.056,"end":57.066,"text":"好我們來看這個VSP這個洗房亂象這個合法業者少境外黑數多在合法合規的目前才8家這你們這個完成洗錢房子登記的但是呢這個境外黑數多達了30家的一個警示名單"},{"start":58.926,"end":86.577,"text":"我們這邊看到說你們的監管不章是在於你花了三年的時間112年到114年你才稽查了12家在去年的時候你在9月就已經去年11月你裁罰了6家這6家當中有5家是你在9月的時候就告訴他說你不可以再提供服務了你要停業了可是他停業之後"},{"start":88.26,"end":110.531,"text":"不應該有任何的行為啊 可是他還是繼續執業啊所以你們就在11月的時候給他裁罰 這代表什麼你們儘管會是後事後決 也許在你的下達之前裁罰之前 他早就捲款跑路了包括你花了三年才查了12家那包括你的提供 你要對他裁罰是在你後續"},{"start":113.012,"end":129.277,"text":"已經列管說停業的指令之下你還再給他裁罰那可能在他裁罰之後我就捲款重逃了那所以針對這個警政署這個刑事警察局針對DASP的經驗他這個我一字不漏的就列出來"},{"start":130.057,"end":141.103,"text":"他說這個警察機關他有什麼困境呢第一個他對於交易平台這個所屬錢包的交易平台他沒有辦法掌握第二個我們虛擬資產的交易所都設在國外所以我只要透過跨國司法的互助其實我也得不到任何的回應"},{"start":150.308,"end":153.37,"text":"那第三個呢這個針對非託管的錢包本身這個錢包非在交易平台當中所產生的錢包我也沒有辦法得到他的身份認證第四個我的犯罪手法雖然你們即使未來會改為許可"},{"start":166.099,"end":185.764,"text":"但是還是有很多是以私人幣來進行的非法場外的交易的詐欺案件那詐騙集團也常誘導被害人說你要隱匿案情喔消費對話記錄及交易憑證截圖而且甚至讓被害人不願意配合報案來提供相關的證明"},{"start":187.838,"end":212.038,"text":"所以本席這邊要跟你請教的是全球加密貨幣交易所的排名全球前十大的虛擬貨幣的服務商在台灣沒有一家合法也並沒有全部是在台灣的這30家的警示名單內請教主委這樣的大型境外的交易所您要怎麼的控管呢"},{"start":213.637,"end":236.414,"text":"謝謝委員的關心其實剛剛委員提到的就是過去在沒有專法納管所鞭長不及的地方過去我們不可否認我們的虛擬資產服務業者在全球是野蠻生長包括我想各位都非常清楚去年美國GENES法案才真的約束到所謂穩定幣所以真正穩定幣也沒有在美國發行就是說我說在那個法律之前"},{"start":237.975,"end":259.527,"text":"那我想這也就是納管的重要性,剛才委員不管說交易平台的納管,還有在國外的幣商,還有這些非托管錢包,確實剛才我們檢調單位遇到的困境,這確實在過去,因為它是跟境外的交易所交易,但不在我們的管轄法下面。那未來呢,我們就希望透過這樣一個立法,然後來達到這一點。剛剛委員提到就是說,"},{"start":260.487,"end":287.401,"text":"境外這些巨頭那為什麼我們的監理態度我想在我們的那個草案裡面的第七條第三項我們就已經有針對就是說未來這個境外他可以在台灣有兩條路徑一個就是他可以來設立分支機構另外一個他直接可以來投資設立新的交易所或新的VASP業者我想我們過去這條路一直都沒有關閉一直都是存在包括已經登記好主委講到這邊來那我就來就針對你剛才回答的"},{"start":288.061,"end":291.383,"text":"我右邊這一張這個報導它其實是教導守則這個非法的出金合法的業者淪為洗錢的終端右邊喔它這個網路上隨便說都是教學我境外的這個平台教育在台灣合規的業者也就是蔚蘭林納管的業者出金"},{"start":312.899,"end":340.998,"text":"所以這些合規的業者 就像是洗錢鍊的最後一端他要把錢淋出來的時候 前面他怎麼用我們也管不著 反正就是怎麼洗洗洗 洗到這邊來然後之後呢 到台灣 他要變錢成台幣的時候我們還有教學 教學執引就右邊給你寫得很清楚好 他們呢 這個 雖然完成了KYC啊但是對於前端來自境外高風險交易所的資金來源我根本還是無從查緝啊"},{"start":342.719,"end":363.352,"text":"那主委你怎麼看?對,其實我們現在VASP業者,現在我們台灣這個,現在合法經營的八家都是我們洗錢防治法裡面的,所謂的要嚴格遵守洗錢防治的比如說該來的資金流如何做登記,如何做管理,我想應該都是有在被管理主委,我這邊只是提醒"},{"start":365.032,"end":385.181,"text":"這個如果是像這個案例產生你真的為了交易所能夠對於上端上端上端的這個洗錢的所有的錢包地址全部都能都能夠掌握嗎這我只是一個一個提醒你我覺得這個很困難其實沒有錯我已經提到那個就是我們國際賽講的Travel Rule"},{"start":386.181,"end":413.002,"text":"好 OK 那當然你們的資產虛擬資產管理法當中有四個重點其實重點是在於對境外虛擬資產的服務商在台灣設立分支機構應該要得到主管機關的許可而且發給許可證照這其實是你們的重點那本席有三點要跟您就教就像幣安跟OKS這種大型境外交易所金管會要如何建立然後虛擬資產管理法如何能夠規範得到"},{"start":414.443,"end":432.061,"text":"第二個國內的這個VSP的業者呢依據資產管理法被嚴格的查核監禮但境外平台根本不需要落地啊我也不需要納管啊我一樣能夠在線上收費營業啊那誰還要乖乖的申請你這一套許可證呢"},{"start":433.896,"end":448.274,"text":"主委如果不落地那只要不落地難道就是境外巨頭的免死金牌嗎還是國人遭了詐騙之後我又如何來保護國人呢其實委員講到都是非常核心的問題第一個"},{"start":450.202,"end":472.594,"text":"第一個我們虛擬資產它本質是一個跨國際的平台任何一個人有能力上網跟他做交易其實上我想這個就是在國際但是不可否認的對一般人而言他假設要透過比如說我們合法的銀行的帳戶或是我們現行的交易所能夠很簡單的接近這個交易的話"},{"start":473.835,"end":493.418,"text":"還是以比如說我們現在的合規的這個比較好這也是為什麼很多國外大型的這些的所謂的幣商他願意來台灣跟我們申請要落地否則他根本不用確實他們也不斷的跟我們接觸我想這部分確實是對啊 如果像第一個嘛像幣安跟OKS也許幣安跟你有接觸OKS沒有"},{"start":494.979,"end":507.084,"text":"那這個OKS你要怎麼去管理它呢那你的資產管理法怎麼規範得到呢類似類似但是OKS也夠大喔它也是全世界第三大"},{"start":508.081,"end":524.538,"text":"我跟委員報告一下就是說其實在國際金融上面它其實過去有類似的這樣的一個概念比如說我一個人有能力在網路上去購買其他國家的金融商品那其實上這件事情是個人的行為但它不會受到本國法律的任何的保障"},{"start":525.399,"end":546.152,"text":"那相對的 但是這種人相對比較少我們未來所要想像的就是說我們有自己本地的監管體系我們可以讓大部分的國人很安心的也很自由的進行主委 這個我也是提醒就是說今天你有修了立了這個法就是要接軌國際但是我覺得對國人來講不在乎你有沒有接軌國際是我的詐騙能不能減少"},{"start":549.594,"end":572.668,"text":"這件事情我的錢透過這個虛擬的這個市場去交易之後我的錢能不能追回來這才是國人要的要不然你這個法通過其實對國人其實是無感的重點是洗錢房子當中我們能達到防詐的本意所以其實你也辛苦啦我說我也肯定你們修這個法但是確實有好多像本席剛才提的這三點其實是"},{"start":573.849,"end":597.034,"text":"你們要更花點心如何來保護國人的其實謝委員的提醒這些都是非常關鍵的最後我也一個結語就是其實由登記制強化登建立為許可制其實在過去兩年的登記制當中我們的具體執法是不髒的所以未來修法後重研治理之後有效執法才是本法的重點"},{"start":597.534,"end":609.532,"text":"不要鬧到說我們最後台灣的虛擬資產服務法淪為管得到本土小魚漏掉境外大白鯊的窘境好 以上 謝謝謝謝委員的提醒 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}