{"error":false,"id":["167759"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167759,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167759","日期":"2026-03-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-5-35,20-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防、財政委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[35,20],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會","財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防、財政委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-03-23T10:06:47+08:00","結束時間":"2026-03-23T10:15:26+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:39","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fac85a1267872a8a32feeecd02cdb47d3e8ac6646e11c8ecc20d8b31dcd6c60562af07d6823bbab05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林德福","委員發言時間":"10:06:47 - 10:15:26","會議時間":"2026-03-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防、財政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查：一、行政院函請審議「強化防衛韌性及不對稱戰力計畫採購特別條例草案」案。二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫採購特別條例草案」案。三、本院國民黨黨團擬具「強化國防及對美軍事採購特別條例草案」案。(3月23日、3月25\n日及26日三天一次會)）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.11534375000000001,"end":2.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.6590937500000003,"end":4.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.363468750000001,"end":6.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.01721875,"end":7.793468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.353468750000001,"end":16.028468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.028468750000002,"end":16.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.17596875,"end":17.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.25596875,"end":21.394718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.78284375,"end":27.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.039093750000003,"end":33.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.47284375,"end":59.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.734718750000006,"end":61.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.28721875,"end":61.30409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.759718750000005,"end":109.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.52846875,"end":117.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.05471875,"end":144.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.36284375,"end":147.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.11346875,"end":147.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.44659375,"end":154.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.77471875,"end":164.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.84909375,"end":167.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.68409375000002,"end":175.15971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.81784375,"end":179.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.54721875,"end":186.55034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.07346875000002,"end":190.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.80284375000002,"end":215.77784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.38534375,"end":233.00721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.61909375000002,"end":238.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.03596875000002,"end":238.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.10346875000002,"end":238.13721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.69409375,"end":253.69596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.20034375,"end":239.35221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.69596875000002,"end":257.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.22284375000004,"end":257.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.47596875,"end":259.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.02846875,"end":288.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.00159375000004,"end":269.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.82409375000003,"end":271.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.02659375,"end":272.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.78346875,"end":351.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.33596875,"end":293.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.75659375000004,"end":355.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.30034375,"end":355.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.59971875,"end":368.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.74971875,"end":384.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.26659375,"end":388.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.03784375000004,"end":388.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.10534375000003,"end":388.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.15596875,"end":390.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.22721875,"end":395.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.18846875,"end":402.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.63471875000005,"end":405.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.48221875,"end":443.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.54409375,"end":445.24409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.54784375,"end":446.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.47596875000005,"end":490.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.02596875,"end":498.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":491.51534375000006,"end":492.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.61159375000005,"end":498.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.45096875,"end":514.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.79596875000004,"end":506.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.63534375000006,"end":506.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.66784375,"end":517.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.62096875,"end":518.32971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.149,"end":7.771,"text":"主席還有議會各列席官員還有我們各位同仁是不是請那個顧部長請顧部長是林委員部長你好部長本席是支持國防備戰而不起戰用實力來確保和平那本席知道軍售啊是賣方的市場"},{"start":29.093,"end":33.319,"text":"我們溢價能力有限但民眾看不慣"},{"start":34.5,"end":60.3,"text":"合約簽了立法院也三讀通過的預算錢也付了那美方武器的這些裝備啊這個延遲交貨那請國防部簡要的說明以付款的軍購到貨時間延誤的情況哪一項武器或裝備延宕最久延宕時間多久國防部有沒有什麼解決因應的對策"},{"start":62.563,"end":80.853,"text":"跟委員報告,我想剛剛站規司長大致上已經說明了我們現在持續案件大概應該有23案那很多部分都是按照節點來交運,或者甚至有提前交運那剛剛就講就有三個,一個當然就是大家都在講的F6V"},{"start":82.234,"end":107.933,"text":"那F-16B我們現在已經在產線看到已經有59架來進入產線那現在也都在進行試飛那它當然因為首架機的試飛它除了在場進行試飛以外它還要整個進到我們美國相關的基地去進行整個系統的測試所以這些測試的這個部分應該會花比較久一點的時間但是我想只要這個首機的測試"},{"start":110.775,"end":124.792,"text":"進入的這個一定的這個順利之後呢我剛剛也已經回答了我們應該可以預計在第三季齁的時候我們看得到這一個飛機因為他飛機要先到美國再進行我們飛行員的訓練訓練完之後呢才會載運"},{"start":127.414,"end":147.489,"text":"所以這個部分我們預估第三季可以來那另外兩個部分,一個就是Mk48的重型魚雷,一個是AGM-154那這個部分相關的部分,事實上我們現在付的款項並不是很多剛剛站位師大概已經說明了一下那個不必講了,我剛剛有聽到,那個部長"},{"start":148.49,"end":173.718,"text":"因為113年12月31日有一篇文章淺談軍購公補不符案件策略的分析基於政府內部的控制與賽局理論的改進建議撰文者是軍方的人員出自於國防部主計局發行的刊物的主計記刊"},{"start":176.68,"end":187.186,"text":"113年12月31號你們可以去換文章指出軍購花架書合約有利美方軍購禮約過程的花生爭議時必須依照"},{"start":190.885,"end":213.742,"text":"美國規定的程序來進行依照他們的程序我方現行的辦理索賠程序啊美方決定不以賠償時申請索賠單位缺乏有效第三方的申訴管道換句話說你怎麼講都沒有用啦他講怎麼樣就怎麼樣部長你有什麼看法"},{"start":216.414,"end":237.926,"text":"美國他就軍購的部分當然是他對全世界在賣武器他都有他的一個內部的一個集合的程序雙方在軍購案之後都會成立專案辦公室那他們內部也會有相關的集合這個集合的單位集合但是我們沒有來你也沒有辦法申訴有沒有辦法去要求任何啊"},{"start":239.747,"end":253.295,"text":"我們會透過這個,因為專案辦公室我們會有人派在那個地方那相關的這些進度也好,或者是相關的這些執行的這些期程暗箱的狀況如何,我們都會充分的予以掌握"},{"start":254.296,"end":269.511,"text":"議長問沒有用啊他們說的算我們說的沒有用啊問題是卡在這裡啊我們不能說的是沒有用啦但是委員大概問的意思是說如果他交易齊成是不是我們能夠跟他索賠那這個點我必須要坦誠講我們是沒有辦法跟他進行索賠如果委員問的是這一點但是他整個的"},{"start":272.594,"end":287.621,"text":"整個的集合的流程是我想是相當嚴密的這但是就是就美方而言跟我們也要進行有一個專案的辦公室來進行合作那所以現在委員所一再問的就是說軍購交運職業他們講的算我們確實沒有辦法對軍購案來進行索賠"},{"start":293.464,"end":319.76,"text":"那個軍購挖家書的合約為定型化的契約沒有辦法經過協商為單一國家的修訂作為適當改善合約不利我國的這個情形建議可採 漸進方式來強化整個軍購案源頭的管理針對這些老舊啦 效能不符合的現代這些作戰需求的武器裝備"},{"start":321.441,"end":333.359,"text":"審慎評估其繼續來維護的必要性以降低軍購支出與國防預算之比重以上這些文章摘要內容為維護我國權益我國防部"},{"start":336.002,"end":339.926,"text":"所以委員的意思是說我們軍購案都不要做不是"},{"start":356.653,"end":381.721,"text":"我是說你這個合約只有當方向他們講的算我們去要求而且他就是跟你延宕你也沒有辦法做任何的要求我想如果說委員覺得說我們不能夠進行軍購案那要採商購的話那剛剛也有委員提到說商購的部分我們又按照國民黨的提案又不同意我們進行任何的商購"},{"start":382.301,"end":405.515,"text":"你不要拿他扭轉,我意思就是說你們在訂合約的時候,你們本來就應該要跟人家談好啊。鮑偉我們要澄清一件事情,發架書它不是一個合約,發架書它是一個安全承諾文件。那個議約的合約的部分是每政府跟廠商,它才會訂合約,這是第一點。第二點,我們也不是什麼都不能做。"},{"start":406.567,"end":419.164,"text":"我們針對美方執行軍購案如果他在管理上面有瑕疵我們可以要求他換掉專案辦公室的全體成員是真非但就是這樣的例子那如果他是因為產線產量不足"},{"start":422.128,"end":445.699,"text":"需要更多的人工那我們也會要求他們把人數增加目前F16V不要改動它可以加速的原因就是我們在從前年開始就要求落馬必須要增加產線的人力那它也增加了兩倍的人力同時採取兩班連續趕工我們才有現在的成果所以並不是什麼都不能做我是希望說你這些要"},{"start":447.86,"end":470.88,"text":"這個軍購的這些東西我們一定要站住立場不是他們講什麼我們就怎麼配合完全沒有自己的這個定見跟看法因為我們這些委員我們是代表人民來監督政府當然你付了那麼多的錢我們要是立場站不住又讓人家為所欲為你說我們這些委員算什麼"},{"start":471.721,"end":490.338,"text":"對不對我們是代表人民來監督政府當然你所跟人家制定的不管合約啦不管任何啦一定要有立場嘛不然不能讓人家為所欲為嘛他講什麼我們都任何都不行去跟他做任何的爭辯哪有那回事全世界也沒有這樣的合約啊"},{"start":491.215,"end":516.451,"text":"我想再次跟委員說明,我想軍購就是一個政府對政府的一個行為那你們該要求還是要要求啊對,我們當然,剛剛詹貴士已經說明了,像他舉了這個F16的例子像他舉了剛剛說的,刺針飛彈的這些例子都說明我們這個在專案執行的這些期間我們都會互相綿密的溝通,並且提出要求我是希望你們還是要有立場啦,謝謝好,謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}