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梁國雄主持長虛擬貨幣的定性跟營業稅相關的爭議是我在今天我們今天討論這個服務專法我要特別提出來因為這個專法其實在國際上歐盟跟日本其實新加坡其實早就已經上路了那我們其實比較慢但是我覺得這件事情無論在法律上的定位跟定性我覺得都要"},{"start":58.292,"end":80.304,"text":"討論得更清楚後續在監管跟課稅的部分我覺得跟國際上一致我們才能夠推動得更順利但是在按照過去複稅署的說法加密貨幣它其實沒有證券性所以過去你們是傾向把比特幣或者是一代幣定位成它是一個商品"},{"start":81.004,"end":85.406,"text":"他是虛擬商品所以那我就要請問一下組長就說如果一般民眾經常性的買賣這個買賣他的買賣金額超過所謂營業稅的起徵點未來到底是不是需要課徵營業稅這是我第一個問題可不可以回應我"},{"start":102.835,"end":127.113,"text":"呃 報告委員 就是剛才 誠如剛才委員有講的就是買賣貨幣到底有沒有涉及到證券或非證券那其實我們在之前109年就已經有核試它如果是屬於證券性質的一個虛擬資產的話它原則上應該要課徵我們證交稅那目前的話就是千分之一的證交稅是有在核課的如果有發行這些去做交易的話可是你現在 因為之前負稅署的說法是它並沒有證券性質喔"},{"start":127.893,"end":127.933,"text":"陳美萍議員"},{"start":152.111,"end":153.872,"text":"目前還沒有 因為我們也是在看專法的"},{"start":182.431,"end":210.288,"text":"這個不存在就是說跟過去傳統消費的加值或加工行為事實上是不一樣的那在國際上你剛才也提到就是說歐盟跟日本新加坡規定加密貨幣是免徵營業稅的部分針對這部分當然是我們複稅署財政部的權責所以未來其實對於你們立法的方向你們到底是遵循國際上你們的看法是如何我覺得外界也都在關注這樣的一個重點"},{"start":211.309,"end":240.429,"text":"那這個部分你們會不會有自己的時間表出來什麼時候會有最後的決定我們目前是會看專法這邊的一些相關的一個方向就是跟他就是整個管理的政策如果說能夠很確定的話那我們整個後面我們研擬我們課稅的一個規定就會比較周全那稱如剛才委員有講到的的確在定性方面的話他可能因為我們很快可能我們的版本因為我不知道行政院版本什麼時候會進來但是我們版本通過你們如果還沒有的話我可能就會認為"},{"start":242.871,"end":257.431,"text":"這個修法就會沒有行政院的意見這就不太周全了解 會緊鑼密鼓的趕快去處理這一塊好 一個月之內好不好好 那第二個我要詢問的就是現在境內外的付稅套利的跟資金外流的部分"},{"start":258.392,"end":274.557,"text":"我就要請教你們包括剛才有其他委員提到包括境內平台買賣虛擬貨幣的稅制的差別就是說我們一般在境外的部分買賣有海外的所得我們有100萬的不用申報那750萬就是說有獲利的話是不用去繳稅是免稅的狀態但是在境內的平台我們計算它所得最高有累計稅率40%"},{"start":284.6,"end":311.25,"text":"所以在這邊未來我們如何去處理這一塊因為這個變相的變成鼓勵民眾把資金移向海外的交易平台那我們在設立這樣一個法案的時候我覺得在台灣上我覺得就會造成國內稅基的流失因為大家變成說反而在境外投資反而我們免稅的金額是比較高的所以你們的意見到底有什麼樣的解方"},{"start":313.595,"end":332.629,"text":"目前的確是在財產的一個交易所得的話如果是登記境內的財產它是會算我們國內的所得然後境外的就會用海外所得那現在就是你們有發現這樣的問題對不對?是的確會有一些制度上適用是不一樣的那我們就沒有課到稅啦"},{"start":335.266,"end":348.298,"text":"課稅這個部分是後續我們課稅資料收集的問題啦當然因為如果他有一些交易的話金額有超過我們當然還是會議規定要去課稅的境外這一塊所以還沒有想法"},{"start":349.505,"end":362.983,"text":"目前我們一樣是配合這個專法後續有一些資料收集你們這個專法我早就已經聽到行政院其實你們內部已經有版本了但是這麼重要的事情你們居然都還不知道要怎麼辦我覺得"},{"start":364.344,"end":383.831,"text":"可以聽聽我們金管和彭主委的意見跟後續怎麼去做處理比較好我們當然希望我們這次資產管理法留在台灣然後所有業者我們管理業者嘛但是我們覺得政府還是應該可以課到應該有的稅這是很重要的精神嗎主委你可不可以回應我一下謝謝委員的關心我想說"},{"start":386.252,"end":400.962,"text":"確實稅制本身會影響資金的流動我想這個大家都知道那剛剛講委員提到這個東西應該不是只有虛擬資產的問題啦應該是我們所有的境內境外投資本來有它政策上的考慮所以這我們尊重財政部的專業"},{"start":403.504,"end":426.524,"text":"對 這個其實不是只有財政部的專業其實虛擬資產的監理是我們從洗錢 防治法 納管走向專法 我們全面都控管我們不要任何漏洞政府都可以看得到 管得到還不只是課稅的問題所以我想聽聽這雖然是財政部的夜館的內容但是我也想聽聽主委您的意見"},{"start":427.225,"end":446.087,"text":"如果站在我們的立場,我還是要強調數位有專攻,租稅的當時會設計這樣一定有他的考慮這個我們講的只是純粹是我們從我們的角度來思考那我們當然希望說我們納管這個業者,希望說能夠給國人提供更好的這樣一個條件"},{"start":447.569,"end":468.517,"text":"那我也希望說盡量把這個交易能夠站在我們的同意的標準來納管是 所以境內平台也可以有討論調整的空間嘛讓我們更有優勢嘛 國內的平台更有優勢嘛對 其實財政部當時會這樣規定我在猜一定有他自己專業非常多考量經過充分的討論那當然這新的事務我想這部分我們還是會跟"},{"start":469.017,"end":488.51,"text":"主委我的時間不多但是我最後您自己主動上來我就希望說財政部在這一塊要多聽聽跟金管會多溝通我們希望就是說未來的整個資金流動從習先方這法到全面的納管這是在國內重要的精神那怎麼樣留住所有的錢我們政府都可以"},{"start":489.23,"end":502.261,"text":"看得到管得到然後也留住這個平台多使用我們國內的平台這是我重要的主張另外就是說再鎖的對不起這跟後續財政部還是比較有關係虛擬資產的認定方式有三種一個是換幣級的換成或者換成法幣級課第三種是出金才課"},{"start":511.529,"end":531.809,"text":"但是現在在市場上比較常見的交易就是比特幣換成美金或者是比特幣換成泰幣甚至是比特幣換成USDT所以這樣的操作方式在財政部現行的解釋之下到底算不算是實現所得它的所得到底是怎麼去做計算"},{"start":534.008,"end":548.047,"text":"在精神上你們的看法是什麼因為很多人就是他把他換成就是到最後把比特幣換成以太幣或者比特幣或以太幣換成USDT那他就放在那個錢包裡面"},{"start":549.368,"end":554.973,"text":"賺他超過那個所得就是說到底說要課稅比如說也超過700萬750萬還是700萬750萬照理說要課稅但是他就放在海外消費他就放在他海外的錢包裡面消費所以你也課不到這一筆那這個部分後續怎麼去做處理這到底算不算實現所得就是說"},{"start":571.752,"end":585.063,"text":"他賺的錢他可能超過750萬照理說超過750萬是要課稅要申報要課稅但他就放在海外錢包裡面那就直接拿那個錢包在海外消費那這個到底算不算所得"},{"start":588.4,"end":588.681,"text":"這個未來委員有提到"},{"start":604.148,"end":620.515,"text":"避別之間的轉換還有出金等等的這些課稅其實依照現在的所得稅法一些規定它其實只要有一些交易行為只要一個transaction它其實應該都會要繼續計算所得的跟它後面賺到所得以後去做花費那可能是另外一件"},{"start":621.236,"end":636.068,"text":"我今天只寻到现在16秒我觉得很多事情财政部都还没有想得很清楚都没有办法回应我的答案我都不知道行政院什么时候我希望一个月之后你们可以有你们的想法出来后面我们在讨论这个法案的时候才有机会更周全"},{"start":636.748,"end":658.477,"text":"最後十秒鐘我請問一下主委就是說現在虛擬貨幣的監管有一個漏洞就是很多的幣圈老師跟貸單群組其實這個是有問題的看起來其實是不是虛擬資產交易其實我們有要求不得有意圖影響價格的操作行為但是這些貸圈幣圈的老師跟貸單的群組其實"},{"start":661.238,"end":671.645,"text":"他們都有在說應該怎麼買或怎麼賣或者應該什麼時候應該進場等等所以金管會未來是不是會把虛擬資產分析跟顧問的行為納入管理"},{"start":672.588,"end":698.161,"text":"我想這個有關交易行為我們再過去其他的相對應的金融商品已經開始納管比如對網紅我們也有一些規範那未來在金融消費者保護法還有就是我們對這些專業的資格條件裡面從業人員的資格條件也會有訂定相關的專法這個未來在一個有秩序的市場應該都是會受到合理的規範好 謝謝主委的回應 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:32:51+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:32:52+08:00","text":"感謝主席，我是不是可以請主委先休息一下？","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:32:51.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:32:52.230000+08:00","text":"請財政部賦稅署的蘇副組長、胡副組長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-23T10:32:52.230000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:33:28.739000+08:00","text":"請蘇靜娟副組長、胡副組長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:33:28.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:33:50.093000+08:00","text":"兩位組長，虛擬貨幣的定性跟營業稅相關的爭議，是今天討論這個服務專法時我要特別提出來的，因為這個專法，在國際上歐盟跟日本，其實包括新加坡早就已經上路了，我們比較慢，但是這件事情無論在法律上的定位跟定性，我覺得都要討論得更清楚。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:33:50.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:33:56.856000+08:00","text":"後續在監管跟課稅的部分，我覺得跟國際上一致，我們才能夠推動得更順利。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:33:57.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:34:12.924000+08:00","text":"但是按照過去賦稅署的說法，加密貨幣其實沒有證券性，所以過去你們是傾向把比特幣或者以太幣定位成是一個商品、它是虛擬商品。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:34:14.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:34:15.966000+08:00","text":"那我就要請問一下副組長，如果一般民眾經常性地買賣，他的買賣金額超過所謂營業稅的起徵點，未來到底是不是需要課徵營業稅？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:34:15.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:34:16.386000+08:00","text":"這是我的第一個問題，可不可以回應我？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"蘇副組長靜娟","start":"2026-03-23T10:34:33.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:34:53.169000+08:00","text":"報告委員，誠如剛才委員講的，買賣貨幣到底有沒有涉及到證券或非證券，其實我們之前在109年就已經有核示，它如果是屬於證券性質的虛擬資產，原則上應該要課徵證交稅，目前千分之一的證交稅是有在核課的，如果有發行這些去做交易……","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:34:53.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:34:58.093000+08:00","text":"但是你現在……因為之前賦稅署的說法是它並沒有證券性質。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"蘇副組長靜娟","start":"2026-03-23T10:34:58.093000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:35:03.096600+08:00","text":"有兩類，就是有證券性質跟非證券性質的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇副組長靜娟","start":"2026-03-23T10:35:03.096600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:35:08.100200+08:00","text":"證券性質的，本來在109年我們就已經有核示相關的規定了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇副組長靜娟","start":"2026-03-23T10:35:08.100200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:35:13.103800+08:00","text":"另外，非證券性質的部分，我們目前就是在蒐集國際的資料。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇副組長靜娟","start":"2026-03-23T10:35:13.103800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:35:18.107400+08:00","text":"剛才委員也很清楚地說到，歐盟那邊可能有一些是不用課的，而有一些部分也是要課的，我們目前其實都有在看這些國際的趨勢……","quality":0.019},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:35:18.107400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:35:23.111000+08:00","text":"還沒有定案？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇副組長靜娟","start":"2026-03-23T10:35:23.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:35:24.852000+08:00","text":"目前還沒有，因為我們也是在看專法的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:35:24.852000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:35:54.352000+08:00","text":"好，那我的問題，因為今天的時間很短，就是民眾對於這件事情的疑慮其實是可以理解的，包括金融投資行為，一般我們認為是金融投資行為，但是卻要被認為好像是一個買賣，所以在一般民眾的感覺上這是不合理的，這跟一般的個人財產交易免徵營業稅的原則是互相衝突的，你理解我的意思嘛？是。","quality":0.016},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:35:54.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:35:58.374000+08:00","text":"跟過去傳統消費的加值或加工行為，事實上是不一樣的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:35:59.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:36:05.639000+08:00","text":"在國際上，你剛才也提到，歐盟跟日本、新加坡規定加密貨幣是免徵營業稅。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:36:07.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:36:18.767000+08:00","text":"針對這部分，當然是賦稅署、財政部的權責，所以未來對於立法的方向，你們到底是遵循哪樣……就國際上，你們的看法是如何？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:36:18.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:36:26.712000+08:00","text":"我覺得外界也都在關注這樣的一個重點，這個部分你們會不會有自己的時間表出來、什麼時候會有最後的決定？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇副組長靜娟","start":"2026-03-23T10:36:27.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:36:39.501000+08:00","text":"我們目前是會看專法這邊的一些相關方向，就是整個管理的政策如果能夠很確定的話，那整個後面我們研擬課稅的一個規定就會比較周全。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇副組長靜娟","start":"2026-03-23T10:36:40.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:36:43.363000+08:00","text":"誠如剛才委員講到的，的確在定性方面可能……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:36:43.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:36:56.575000+08:00","text":"因為很快地可能我們的版本……我不知道行政院版本什麼時候會進來，但是我們的版本通過，你們如果還沒有的話，我個人會認為，這個修法沒有行政院的意見，這就……了解。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:36:57.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:36:58.277000+08:00","text":"不太周全。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇副組長靜娟","start":"2026-03-23T10:36:59.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:37:00.520000+08:00","text":"我們會緊鑼密鼓地趕快去處理這一塊。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:37:00.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:37:01.682000+08:00","text":"一個月之內，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:37:02.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:37:16.874000+08:00","text":"第二個我要詢問的是，現在境內外稅負套利與資金外流的部分，請教你們，剛才也有其他委員提到，包括境內平台，買賣虛擬貨幣的稅制之差別。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:37:17.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:37:25.557000+08:00","text":"我們一般在境外部分的買賣，有海外所得，100萬不用申報，加上有750萬的空間，就是有獲利的話是不用繳稅、免稅的狀態；但是在境內的平台，我們計算其所得，最高累進稅率40%。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:37:35.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:37:39.441000+08:00","text":"所以未來我們如何去處理這一塊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:37:39.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:37:43.923000+08:00","text":"因為這個變相地變成鼓勵民眾把資金移向海外的交易平台。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:37:44.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:37:58.589000+08:00","text":"那我們在立這樣一個法的時候，在討論上我覺得就會造成國內稅基的流失，因為變成在境外投資反而免稅的金額是比較高的。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:38:00.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:38:02.230000+08:00","text":"這個就你們的意見，到底有什麼樣的解方？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"胡副組長仕賢","start":"2026-03-23T10:38:04.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:38:15.203000+08:00","text":"目前的確是在財產……交易所得的話，如果是登記境內的財產，它是會算我們國內的所得，然後境外的就會用海外所得，那現在就是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:38:15.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:38:17.505000+08:00","text":"你們有發現這樣的問題，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡副組長仕賢","start":"2026-03-23T10:38:17.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:38:21.108000+08:00","text":"是，的確會有一些制度上適用是不一樣的，對。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:38:21.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:38:23.609000+08:00","text":"那我們就沒有課到稅啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡副組長仕賢","start":"2026-03-23T10:38:26.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:38:38.297000+08:00","text":"課到稅這個部分，是後續我們課稅資料蒐集的問題，如果他有一些交易的話，金額超過，我們當然還是會依規定要去課稅、境外這一塊。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:38:38.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:38:39.278000+08:00","text":"所以還沒有想法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡副組長仕賢","start":"2026-03-23T10:38:40.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:38:44.149000+08:00","text":"目前我們一樣是配合這個專法，後續一些資料蒐集……","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:38:45.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:38:53.942000+08:00","text":"你們這樣……你們這個專法，我早就已經聽到行政院其實內部已經有版本了，但是這麼重要的事情，你們居然都還不知道要怎麼辦！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:38:53.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:39:07.328000+08:00","text":"我覺得可以聽聽金管會彭主委的意見，以及後續怎麼去做處理比較好，我們當然希望，這個資產管理法，留在臺灣……然後就所有業者，我們管理業者嘛！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:39:07.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:39:11.870000+08:00","text":"但是我們覺得政府應該還是可以課到應有的稅，這是很重要的精神。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:39:12.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:39:13.170000+08:00","text":"主委，你可不可以回應我一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T10:39:13.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:39:20.154000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的關心，確實稅制本身會影響資金的流動，我想這個大家都知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T10:39:21.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:39:31.962000+08:00","text":"剛剛講的，委員提到這個東西，應該不是只有虛擬資產的問題，應該是我們所有的境內、境外投資，本來有其政策上的考慮，所以這個我們尊重財政部的專業，只是我們……","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:39:34.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:39:48.557000+08:00","text":"主委，其實這個不是只有財政部的專業，虛擬資產的監理是我們從洗錢防制法納管走向專法，我們全面都控管、不要有任何漏洞，政府都可以看得到、管得到，重要的精神……對。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:39:49.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:39:51.840000+08:00","text":"還不只是課稅的問題。是。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:39:53.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:39:57.524000+08:00","text":"這雖然是財政部業管的內容，但我也想聽聽主委你的意見。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T10:39:58.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:40:09.118000+08:00","text":"站在我們的立場，我還是要強調術業有專攻，當時會設計這樣的租稅制度一定有其考慮，我們講的只是純粹從我們的角度來思考。","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T10:40:10.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:40:22.871000+08:00","text":"當然，我們納管這個業者，是希望能夠給國人提供更好的條件，我也希望儘量讓這個交易站在統一的標準納管，這個我們當然是……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:40:23.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:40:26.812000+08:00","text":"是，所以境內平臺也可以有討論調整的空間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T10:40:26.812000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:40:27.812000+08:00","text":"可以，但是我還是覺得……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:40:27.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:40:30.173000+08:00","text":"讓國內的平臺更有優勢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T10:40:31.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:40:39.497000+08:00","text":"對，其實財政部當時會這樣規定，我在猜一定有他們自己非常多的專業考量，也經過充分的討論，當然這是新的事務，我想我們還是會跟……","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:40:40.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:41:07.196000+08:00","text":"主委，我的時間不多，最後……財政部代表自己主動上來，我希望財政部在這一塊要多聽聽金管會意見、多多溝通，未來在整個資金的流動，從洗錢防制法到全面納管，都是在國內的重要精神，怎麼樣留住所有的錢，讓我們政府可以看得到、管得到，然後也留住這個平臺，多多使用我們國內的平臺，這是我重要的主張。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:41:07.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:41:13.261000+08:00","text":"另外，在所得部分，對不起，後續問題還是跟財政部比較有關係，虛擬資產所得認定方式有三種：一個是「換幣即課」，一個是「換成法幣即課」，第三種是「出金才課」。","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:41:23.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:41:40.967000+08:00","text":"現在市場上比較常見的交易，就是比特幣換成美金或者臺幣，甚至是比特幣換成USDT，這樣的操作方式，在財政部現行的解釋之下，到底算不算實現所得？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:41:41.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:41:42.789000+08:00","text":"他的所得到底是怎麼計算的？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:41:45.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:41:47.571000+08:00","text":"在精神上，你們的看法是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:41:47.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:42:05.473000+08:00","text":"因為很多人到最後就是把比特幣換成以太幣，或者比特幣或以太幣換成USDT，但他就是放在那個錢包裡賺所得，照理說，如果超過750萬以上就要課稅，但是他就是放在海外的錢包，然後去消費，所以你也課不到這筆稅，這個部分後續要怎麼處理？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:42:05.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:42:05.913000+08:00","text":"這到底算不算實現所得？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:42:05.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:42:36.043000+08:00","text":"就是他賺的錢可能超過750萬，照理說超過750萬是要申報、課稅，但他就放在海外錢包裡，然後直接拿那個錢包在海外消費，這到底算不算所得？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:42:36.043000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:42:37.182000+08:00","text":"如果消費後剩下500萬，那又變成免稅，你懂這有一個漏洞在嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:42:37.182000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:42:38.321000+08:00","text":"這個部分要怎麼處理？","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:42:38.321000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:42:39.460000+08:00","text":"我只是舉這幾種樣態，提醒你們要思考清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡副組長仕賢","start":"2026-03-23T10:42:39.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:43:11.495000+08:00","text":"是、是，有關委員提到的，就是幣別之間的轉換，還有出金等等的這些課稅問題，其實依照現行所得稅法的一些規定，其實只要有交易行為、只要有transaction，都應該要計算所得，至於他後面賺到所得以後去花費，那可能是另外一件事。","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:43:12.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:43:27.048000+08:00","text":"好，我今天質詢的時間只剩下16秒，我覺得很多事情財政部都還沒有想得很清楚，所以沒有辦法回應我的問題，我也不知道行政院未來要怎麼做，希望一個月之後你們可以有你們的想法出來，後面我們在討論這個法案時，才有機會讓法案更周全。","quality":0.566},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:43:27.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:43:30.469000+08:00","text":"最後10秒鐘，我想再請教主委。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:43:32.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:44:02.625000+08:00","text":"現在虛擬貨幣的監管有一個漏洞，就是有很多幣圈老師跟帶單群組，其實這是有問題的，針對虛擬資產交易，我們有要求不得有意圖影響價格的操作行為，但是這些幣圈老師跟帶單群組，他們常常會推薦應該怎麼買或怎麼賣，或者應該什麼時候進場等等，未來金管會會不會把虛擬資產分析顧問行為納入管理？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-03-23T10:44:04.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:44:28.021000+08:00","text":"有關交易行為，這在過去其他相對應的金融商品都已經開始納管，比如對網紅我們也有一些規範，未來在金融消費者保護法，還有對於這些從業人員的資格條件，我們都會訂定相關專法，未來一個有秩序的市場都應該會受到合理的規範。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-03-23T10:44:28.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:44:29.161000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主委的回應，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席（李委員彥秀）","start":"2026-03-23T10:44:29.661000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:44:32.232429+08:00","text":"接下來請李坤城委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}