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10:52:27","會議時間":"2026-03-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防、財政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查：一、行政院函請審議「強化防衛韌性及不對稱戰力計畫採購特別條例草案」案。二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫採購特別條例草案」案。三、本院國民黨黨團擬具「強化國防及對美軍事採購特別條例草案」案。(3月23日、3月25\n日及26日三天一次會)）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":0.57096875,"end":7.5572187500000005,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":7.995968750000001,"end":9.059093750000002,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":9.46409375,"end":9.497843750000001,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":9.497843750000001,"end":10.290968750000001,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":13.665968750000001,"end":14.324093750000003,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":14.492843750000002,"end":53.60909375,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":54.165968750000005,"end":56.882843750000006,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":57.017843750000004,"end":79.95096875,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":80.47409375000001,"end":81.09846875000001,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":81.82409375,"end":85.77284375,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":86.46471875,"end":115.54034375,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":115.75971875,"end":126.74534375,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":127.31909375000001,"end":128.88846875000002,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":129.25971875000002,"end":129.64784375000002,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":130.49159375000002,"end":131.75721875000002,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":132.24659375000002,"end":134.72721875000002,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":135.30096875,"end":147.50159375,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":148.04159375,"end":172.49346875,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":172.64534375000002,"end":175.26096875000002,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":175.54784375,"end":180.66096875000002,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":182.88846875000002,"end":184.72784375,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":185.21721875,"end":188.76096875000002,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":188.99721875,"end":200.74221875,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":201.06284375,"end":202.86846875,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":203.49284375000002,"end":208.13346875000002,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":208.43721875,"end":211.79534375,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":211.99784375000002,"end":213.26346875000002,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":213.26346875000002,"end":217.61721875,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":216.90846875000003,"end":220.08096875,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":220.08096875,"end":242.28846875000002,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":242.50784375,"end":246.35534375,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":247.26659375000003,"end":249.42659375000002,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":249.93284375000002,"end":260.51346875,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":261.22221875,"end":262.90971875,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":261.91409375,"end":272.98409375,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":270.57096875,"end":271.41471875,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":271.70159375000003,"end":285.23534375,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":278.13096875,"end":278.40096875,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":286.43346875000003,"end":305.02971875000003,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":305.51909375,"end":318.19221875,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":318.78284375000004,"end":325.63409375000003,"speaker_score":0.979},{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主席有請顧部長那麼其他如果遇到題目有相關需要協助或詢答的這些官員再請你們自己上台來 謝謝請顧部長"},{"start":13.703,"end":35.362,"text":"是 林委好 部長早安我想其實今天不論如何我們可以進入到國防特別預算的條例的審查也算是往前邁進了一步那麼既然是有關於特別條例的審查我們就知道從剛剛報告的時候就可以知道有包括顧部長行政院所提出來的版本還有國民黨跟民眾黨都有版本那麼很開心至少我們聽到的是在野黨也都認為他們不擋軍購"},{"start":39.485,"end":55.203,"text":"只是希望能夠進行嚴格的審查作為立法委員我們同樣的也認為錢要花在刀口上只是啊很怕他們所提出來的所謂軍購特別條例的這樣的一個案子只是"},{"start":55.663,"end":79.677,"text":"明為支持國防預算實為設下陷阱讓我們的軍購被綁死甚至於呢看得到吃不到為什麼我這樣講我仔細的看了政院版本也就是國防部提出的跟國民黨跟民眾黨的版本我簡單的就來提出這三個我認為的妙物我也請部長來為我們來解析一下首先第一個當然就是剛剛"},{"start":82.14,"end":85.451,"text":"現任的財政委員就是國民黨的"},{"start":87.419,"end":114.592,"text":"這個顏匡衡委員有特別提到了有關於就是我們對美元的部分沒錯過去本席也在國防外交委員會之前也是在財政委員像這樣的軍購版本民眾黨把型號數量都寫死如果是這樣的情況底下一旦出現了匯率的變動又一旦出現了價格上面的波動我們也知道如果上個會期有在國防外交委員會就會知道我們有一個列銷專案"},{"start":116.633,"end":125.459,"text":"當時我們所購的編列的預算的價格跟後來美國他有做一些調整很多人都不知道所謂的發價書不是報價單他比較像是一個在"},{"start":131.204,"end":146.937,"text":"軍購上面有意願的國家喊加一我把它解釋為團購單啦就是說跟著一起買確定了數量金額跟參與的國家之後美國才會跟廠商來進行所謂"},{"start":148.118,"end":164.932,"text":"了解價格跟需求所以像這種把型號價格寫預算都寫死的狀況之下真的有辦法執行嗎如果沒有辦法執行的時候他就就是一個價錢框在那裡便宜了不能買所以我們要貴一點嗎預算就框在那裡數量我們後來決定買不到或者是想要多買也不行所以我要提出來的是如果"},{"start":175.86,"end":198.878,"text":"現在按照民眾黨的版本,把這樣的內容都寫死了,會造成什麼樣的狀況?報言,我們還是建議那個我們不論是什麼樣的版本,能夠按照我們的計畫預算制度跟我們的軍購流程那軍購的部分,事實上它涉及到的是一定會進入到預約程序之後才能夠去確認說那個項鍊是什麼那當然這個的衝擊就是"},{"start":203.522,"end":219.894,"text":"比如說像我們過去陸軍買Apache H64D Block 2然後當它進入預約的時候變成Block 3然後等到實際原因是什麼是因為有一定的時間新的機型出來了對不對對你就得重修所有的條文"},{"start":220.114,"end":245.09,"text":"沒錯 那言下之意就是如果現在就講定了未來進入議約程序有新的機種出來我們買還是不買我們要買舊的嗎到時候在野黨又講說有新的不買你們為什麼不買好 第二個因為時間有限把整個授權的時間一年一千而且甚至於改成還需要修法我想在野黨的版本甚至於國民黨都說二零二二零二八年就要執行完畢喔那麼說實話"},{"start":247.344,"end":260.041,"text":"我們是所謂賣方市場在整個軍購的過程當中包括連現在我們都還沒有進入所謂的預約期的狀況底下如果這樣切碎又會造成什麼樣的影響"},{"start":261.317,"end":285.049,"text":"是不是到時候買不到我們所有的軍售案跟美方簽署發價書的時候一定是其成就已經確定了好我就問發價書等不等於估價單等不等於銷售單那它的意義上又是什麼因為我相信在場很多委員可能都還搞不清楚啊"},{"start":287.479,"end":304.865,"text":"發價書實際上真正的作用它是一個書面的美國對我們的安全承諾也是透過這個安全承諾表達它可以供授給我們的項量跟概括金額那這個部分在後續都必須要經過預約才能夠確定所有的項目"},{"start":306.03,"end":326.7,"text":"所以很清楚嘛如果這種一年一千或者甚至於把年限就放在現在已經是2026年的三月中了已經是三月底了如果這樣的期程依照國民黨的版本的話2028年來得及完成嗎那如果來不及美方不會同意這種做法為什麼"},{"start":328.447,"end":345.872,"text":"因為他一個發架書簽署之後,他就是齊成跟蓋孤金額還有向亮在我們雙方議談完之後做一個確認他不會讓你一份發架書去做好幾次的這個談判好,我們現場副主記長是不是在現場"},{"start":350.66,"end":369.128,"text":"好 副主委長有請因為這個除了國防部之外因為跟預算執行有關國民黨的第七條特別提到了那就是如果執行這個所謂的特別條例沒有完成如果有不法的話要送監察院但是我想請問的是我剛剛一直強調這是賣方市場包括美國它有它一定的產製的時間跟期程跟廠商的問題如果像這樣要來究責的話"},{"start":379.173,"end":398.08,"text":"那這個到底責任是在我們國防部的官員執行的官員還是在美方我們是要把美國美方的軍人抓來這裡審判嗎還是把美國的廠商抓來這裡來來來來罰則你有看到第七條嗎國民黨第七條對所以基本上我們認為那個未來會是有自然難行之處"},{"start":399.266,"end":427.475,"text":"那如果是這樣的話你有什麼建議應該要怎麼樣來處理基本上我想我們在預算執行的時候本來就有各種規範那所有的我們的這個行政院的這些公務員或者是軍人他都依照相關的規範在執行所以基本上不用特別在訂定這樣的一個條文大家都會依照相關的規範去"},{"start":428.755,"end":449.665,"text":"做執行好 但是本席擔憂的是部長如果真是如此的話依照我們當然為什麼我們全力支持行政院的版本那是一個在為台灣設立所謂台灣之盾的情況底下的完全的整備所以包括年限 包括金額 包括方向特別條例基本上它不是一個特別預算有特別條例才會變特別預算"},{"start":452.586,"end":472.875,"text":"但是如果說如同現在第七條所規定的甚至於是讓這些負責採購的公務員都擔憂自己要送監察院要考核這個還沒有做事就要先安上一個罪名我想就像我說的為什麼我舉出三大荒謬之處是看得到吃不到可能也做不到"},{"start":474.556,"end":496.852,"text":"我想如果要講這個逐年審查,如果沒有辦法能夠如期審訊,那只能夠在上年度執行額度內履約或者預算有可能在審查的過程中遭刪減凍結那麼在付款的這個高度不確定的風險下,我們就會衍生我們的違約跟廠商不願意如期交裝的一個"},{"start":497.911,"end":522.251,"text":"然後也可能需要支付額外的軍購裝備延遲的起運存管的一些費用等等所以逐年進入交裝跟付款的高峰期的階段,這種情況會更為嚴峻那會無法依照計畫來形成戰力,那對整個建運備戰的工作當然就產生非常嚴重不利的影響"},{"start":522.972,"end":530.601,"text":"好 本席是特別研讀了三個版本所以希望針對這些部分我相信後面還有一些其他在野黨的委員會諮詢他可能也會來回應或回覆但是這是本席看到的我認為既然可以進入討論那就是一個好的開始"},{"start":537.91,"end":554.59,"text":"但是我還是要再次強調特別條例不是編預算書我幫這個國軍人才招募中心打個廣告如果這麼想編預算歡迎加入國軍的行列你們就可以一起來協助編國防預算但我還是強調立法院不是編預算立法院在這裡是預算審查跟條例的審查謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:43:13.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:43:13.184000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:43:13.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:43:14.425000+08:00","text":"主席，有請顧部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:43:14.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:43:20.511000+08:00","text":"其他如果遇到題目有相關需要協助詢答的官員，再請你們自己上臺來，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-23T10:43:20.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:43:20.531000+08:00","text":"請顧部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-23T10:43:25.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:43:26.524000+08:00","text":"林委員好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:43:26.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:43:27.064000+08:00","text":"部長，早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:43:28.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:43:35.511000+08:00","text":"我想今天不論如何，我們可以進入到國防特別預算條例的審查，也算是往前邁進了一步。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:43:36.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:43:53.808000+08:00","text":"既然是有關於特別條例的審查，從剛剛報告的時候就可以知道，包括顧部長、行政院所提出來的版本，還有國民黨跟民眾黨都有版本，很開心，至少我們聽到的是在野黨也都認為，他們不擋軍購只是希望能夠進行嚴格的審查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:43:54.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:44:17.609000+08:00","text":"做為立法委員，我們同樣地也認為錢要花在刀口上，只是很怕他們所提出來的所謂軍購特別條例這樣一個案子，是明為支持國防預算，實為設下陷阱，讓我們的軍購被綁死，甚至於看得到、吃不到！","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:44:18.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:44:19.010000+08:00","text":"為什麼我這樣講？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:44:19.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:44:30.096000+08:00","text":"我仔細地看了政院版本，也就是國防部提出的，跟國民黨、跟民眾黨的版本，我簡單地就來提出這三個我認為的謬誤，我也請部長來為我們解析一下。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:44:30.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:44:44.322000+08:00","text":"首先第一個，當然就是現任的財政委員──國民黨的顏寬恒委員特別提到了我們兌美元的部分。沒錯！","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:44:44.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:45:42.300000+08:00","text":"本席在外交及國防委員會之前，過去也是在財政委員會，像這樣的軍購版本，民眾黨把型號、數量都寫死，如果是這樣的情況底下，一旦出現了匯率的變動，又一旦出現了價格上面的波動，如果上個會期有在外交及國防委員會就會知道，我們有一個獵鴞專案，當時我們所編列的預算價格跟後來美國有做一些調整，很多人都不知道所謂的發價書不是報價單，它比較像是一個在軍購上有意願的國家喊加一，我把它解釋為團購單，就是跟著一起買，確定了數量、金額跟參與的國家之後，美國才會跟廠商進行所謂的了解價格跟需求。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:45:42.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:45:48.905000+08:00","text":"所以像這種把型號、價格、預算都寫死的狀況之下，真的有辦法執行嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:45:48.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:45:53.229000+08:00","text":"如果沒有辦法執行的時候，它就是「死豬仔」價，也就是一個價錢匡在那裡，便宜了不能買，所以我們要貴一點嗎？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:45:53.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:45:56.231000+08:00","text":"預算就匡在那裡，數量我們後來買不到或者是決定想要多買也不行。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:45:56.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:46:15.606000+08:00","text":"所以我要提出來的是如果現在按照民眾黨的版本，把這樣的內容都寫死了，會造成什麼樣的狀況？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-03-23T10:46:15.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:46:23.973000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們還是建議，不論什麼樣的版本，都能夠按照我們的計畫、預算、制度跟我們的軍購流程。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-03-23T10:46:25.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:46:45.269000+08:00","text":"軍購的部分，事實上涉及到的是一定會進入議約程序之後，才能夠去確認那個項量是什麼，而這個的衝擊就是比如說過去我們陸軍買阿帕契AH-64D Block 2，然後當它進入議約的時候變成Block 3，等到實際……","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:46:45.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:46:46.290000+08:00","text":"原因是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:46:46.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:46:50.373000+08:00","text":"是因為有一定的時間，新的機型出來了，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-03-23T10:46:50.373000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:46:51.373000+08:00","text":"新的機型出來。對。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-03-23T10:46:50.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:46:51.874000+08:00","text":"就得重修所有的條文。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:46:52.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:47:00.359000+08:00","text":"沒錯，言下之意就是如果現在講定了，未來進入議約程序，若有新的機種出來，我們買還是不買？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:47:00.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:47:01.620000+08:00","text":"我們要買舊的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:47:01.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:47:04.682000+08:00","text":"到時候在野黨又講：有新的不買，你們為什麼不買？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:47:04.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:47:16.529000+08:00","text":"第二，因為時間有限，把整個授權的時間一年一簽，而且甚至改成還需要修法，在野黨的版本甚至是國民黨都說2028年就要執行完畢。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:47:17.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:47:32.041000+08:00","text":"說實話，我們是賣方市場，在整個軍購的過程當中，包括連現在我們都還沒有進入議約期狀況底下，如果這樣切碎又會造成什麼樣的影響？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:47:33.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:47:34.678000+08:00","text":"到時候是不是會買不到？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-03-23T10:47:34.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:47:42.442000+08:00","text":"我們所有的軍售案，跟美方簽署發價書的時候一定就已經確定期程了，預算不會分開。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:47:42.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:47:47.764000+08:00","text":"好，請問發價書等不等於估價單？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:47:47.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:47:50.245000+08:00","text":"等不等於銷售單？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-03-23T10:47:50.245000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:47:51.245000+08:00","text":"不等於。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:47:50.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:47:52.587000+08:00","text":"它在意義上又是什麼？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:47:52.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:47:56.889000+08:00","text":"因為我相信在場很多委員可能都還搞不清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-03-23T10:47:59.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:48:16.845000+08:00","text":"發價書實際上真正的作用是美國對我們的書面安全承諾，也是透過這個安全承諾表達它可以供售給我們的項量跟概估金額，這個部分在後續都必須要經過議約才能夠確定所有的項目。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:48:18.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:48:19.231000+08:00","text":"好，所以很清楚嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:48:19.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:48:36.679000+08:00","text":"如果這種一年一簽，或者甚至把年限放在已經快2026年3月底的現在，如果依照國民黨這樣的期版版本，2028年來得及完成嗎？","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:48:36.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:48:37.340000+08:00","text":"如果來不及……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-03-23T10:48:37.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:48:38.600000+08:00","text":"美方不會同意這種做法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:48:38.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:48:38.700000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-03-23T10:48:40.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:48:54.071000+08:00","text":"因為一份發價書簽署之後，就是在我們雙方議談完期程、概估金額還有項量之後做確認，不會讓一份發價書去做好幾次的談判。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:48:56.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:48:57.872000+08:00","text":"副主計長是不是在現場？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:49:02.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:49:09.003000+08:00","text":"副主計長有請，因為這部分除了國防部之外，也跟預算執行有關。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:49:09.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:49:18.567000+08:00","text":"國民黨版的第七條特別提到，如果執行特別條例沒有完成及有不法的話要送監察院。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:49:19.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:49:36.315000+08:00","text":"我剛才一直強調這是賣方市場，包括美國有一定的產製時間、期程跟廠商的問題，如果像這樣要究責的話，請問到底責任是在國防部執行的官員還是在美方？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:49:36.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:49:39.516000+08:00","text":"我們要把美方的軍人抓來這裡審判嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:49:39.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:49:42.957000+08:00","text":"還是把美國的廠商抓來這裡施以罰責？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:49:42.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:49:44.758000+08:00","text":"你有看到第七條嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:49:44.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:49:45.698000+08:00","text":"國民黨版第七條。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":"2026-03-23T10:49:45.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:49:50.080000+08:00","text":"所以基本上我們認為未來會有窒礙難行之處。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:49:51.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:49:54.787000+08:00","text":"如果是這樣的話，你有什麼建議，應該要怎麼樣來處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":"2026-03-23T10:49:57.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:50:21.275000+08:00","text":"我們在預算執行的時候本來就有各種規範，所有行政院的公務員或者是軍人都依照相關的規範在執行，基本上不用特別再訂定這樣的條文，大家都會依照相關的規範去執行。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:50:22.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:50:29.179000+08:00","text":"部長，本席擔憂的是，如果真是如此……為什麼我們全力支持行政院的版本？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:50:29.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:51:04.855000+08:00","text":"因為那是一個為臺灣設立臺灣之盾的情況下的完全整備，所以包括年限、金額及方向，特別條例基本上不是一個特別預算，有特別條例才會編特別預算，但是如同現在第七條所規定的，甚至是讓這些負責採購的公務員都擔憂自己要送監察院考核，還沒有做事就要先安上一個罪名，就像我為什麼舉出三大荒謬之處，就是看得到、吃不到可能也做不到。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-23T10:51:06.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:51:54.251000+08:00","text":"我認為若要講逐年審查，如果不能夠如期審竣，只能在上年度執行額度內履約或者預算有可能在審查的過程遭刪減、凍結，在付款的高度不確定風險下，我們就會衍生違約跟廠商不願意如期交裝的一個……也可能需要支付額外的軍購裝備延遲啟運、存管的費用等等，尤其在逐年進入交裝跟付款的高峰期階段，這種情況會更為嚴峻，會無法依照計畫來形成戰力，對整個建軍備戰的工作當然就產生非常嚴重、不利的影響。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:51:55.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:52:13.274000+08:00","text":"本席特別研讀了三個版本，所以希望針對這些部分……我相信後面還有一些其他在野黨的委員會質詢，他們也可能會回應或回復，本席認為既然可以進入討論就是一個好的開始，只是我還是要再次強調，特別條例不是編預算書。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-03-23T10:52:13.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T10:52:26.590000+08:00","text":"我幫國軍人才招募中心打個廣告，如果這麼想編預算，歡迎加入國軍的行列，你們就可以一起來協助編國防預算，但我還是強調立法院不是編預算，立法院這裡是負責預算跟條例的審查，謝謝。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-23T10:52:27.090000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:52:28.518571+08:00","text":"謝謝林委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-23T10:52:28.818571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T10:52:31.961429+08:00","text":"接下來我們請陳永康委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}