{"error":false,"id":["167802"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167802,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167802","日期":"2026-03-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-5-35,20-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防、財政委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[35,20],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會","財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防、財政委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-03-23T13:18:45+08:00","結束時間":"2026-03-23T13:26:46+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:01","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fac85a1267872a8aa31ebd5ea3ec1d6d3e8ac6646e11c8ec0370e869b788f9ecd23dda6d107b523c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"13:18:45 - 13:26:46","會議時間":"2026-03-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防、財政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查：一、行政院函請審議「強化防衛韌性及不對稱戰力計畫採購特別條例草案」案。二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫採購特別條例草案」案。三、本院國民黨黨團擬具「強化國防及對美軍事採購特別條例草案」案。(3月23日、3月25\n日及26日三天一次會)）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":0.03096875,"end":3.6759687500000005,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":13.78409375,"end":14.391593750000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":14.813468750000002,"end":70.90596875,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":71.68221875,"end":72.76221875,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":73.45409375,"end":114.66284375000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":100.45409375000001,"end":100.79159375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":102.52971875,"end":102.81659375000001,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":107.28846875,"end":107.55846875,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":114.00471875000001,"end":126.44159375000001,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":127.09971875000001,"end":202.53096875,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":203.12159375000002,"end":225.09284375000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":224.90721875000003,"end":226.51034375,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":225.51471875000001,"end":229.21034375000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":229.27784375000002,"end":236.06159375000001,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":235.85909375000003,"end":245.10659375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":245.34284375000001,"end":267.61784375,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":272.86596875000004,"end":286.14659375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":285.60659375,"end":316.08284375,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":288.89721875000004,"end":289.21784375000004,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":317.31471875,"end":317.71971875,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":317.71971875,"end":317.75346875,"speaker_score":0.924},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":320.70659375,"end":324.13221875,"speaker_score":0.924},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":324.19971875000005,"end":329.80221875,"speaker_score":0.924},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":327.11909375000005,"end":346.30596875000003,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":345.98534375,"end":355.30034375,"speaker_score":0.924},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":355.87409375000004,"end":368.46284375000005,"speaker_score":0.924},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":367.72034375000004,"end":421.02846875,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"黃司長文啓","start":369.45846875,"end":369.67784375,"speaker_score":0.924},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":421.02846875,"end":421.39971875000003,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":421.39971875000003,"end":421.78784375000004,"speaker_score":0.858},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":421.78784375000004,"end":425.21346875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":425.44971875000005,"end":465.17346875000004,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":436.53659375,"end":436.62096875000003,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":465.17346875000004,"end":477.71159375,"speaker_score":0.858}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.169,"end":0.389,"text":"委員好"},{"start":16.307,"end":34.572,"text":"這次的特別預算的討論過程當中有兩項的爭議一個是有關於社福排擠或不排擠或者預算的編列方式的問題本席稍微了解一下按照我們今年度的公預算的支出總共是3,715億的情況以下舉債上限為4,607億扣除掉已舉債的2,992億的話剩下舉債的無度是1,615億"},{"start":42.654,"end":66.145,"text":"那國民黨一直講說軍購會排擠到民生排擠到社福啦那我稍微算了一下我們最近所推出的這個八大津貼的這一個部分的話如果算起來的話到7月1號開始調漲的話約莫大概要追加預算是215.4億即便回溯到1月1號的部分的話也不過是364.9億這種情況底下應該還在取債的範圍吧"},{"start":71.738,"end":72.568,"text":"不會有排擠的問題吧"},{"start":73.556,"end":99.464,"text":"是 首先跟委員報告就是說有關我們社會福利的部分都是在年度預算那我們今天這個軍購的部分是在特別條例所以它兩個是不同的體系那特別預算有自己個別另外財源的規劃所以它不會衝擊到社福的部分那有關社福就是說剛剛委員所提的如果是7月開始實施的話215億甚至或追溯全年"},{"start":102.765,"end":125.216,"text":"那基本上我們行政院在規劃這些社會福利的相關的這些措施的時候我們盤點以後都還是有能力控制在我們舉債的上限範圍內可能要注意一下就是說在野黨他基本上還有一些不負責任的加碼還有不願意審總預算的情況底下恐怕才是讓這些弱勢團體領不到一個關鍵的原因嘛對不對"},{"start":127.197,"end":145.703,"text":"那回到剛剛在預算編列上面一個很重要的關鍵在藍與白的這個版本當中都把項目限制在這個發價數的一個項目的部分而將這個國內這個委資的部分還有商購的部分予以排除把它放在想要放在公務預算可是如果編載年度的公務預算的話它會牽扯到兩個問題一個是時間的問題一個是舉債的問題"},{"start":151.065,"end":169.617,"text":"因為時間的問題的話很多公共預算要提早一年前編訂那就算用追加預算的部分也要有一定的流程所以很多軍購案其實簽了一項書之後都要等美國國會的這個通過在公佈前是本來就不能講的那過去其實在國民黨執政的時候的軍購也是一樣的這個流程"},{"start":170.337,"end":190.781,"text":"所以說是不是如果透過這種編列 每年編列的方式在時間上會造成一種壓力 會造成美國一種疑慮也會認為沒有決心購買 會順位而會往後拉也會擔心到我們戰力會形成一個缺口這是一個可能性 時間上是不是一個問題第二個舉債的部分 如果它全部都擠在這個所謂的公務預算的話這個8年的話 用8700億來分配的話"},{"start":196.502,"end":198.524,"text":"平均就要在舉債15%上限這兩個會不會造成這樣的問題 副局長"},{"start":203.183,"end":228.726,"text":"是啊跟我們說明就是的確就是說基本上我們這個透過這個我們以往就是說軍購的部分我們都是一次編列多年期的預算主要就是能夠整體的規劃就是說整個配套是所以一定要採取特別預算確保對尤其是跟美方這樣在"},{"start":229.346,"end":244.606,"text":"所以說用年度預算跟作家預算都沒有辦法用一次別令的方式所以必須採取特別預算一個關鍵的原因嘛對不對 副局長是的 然後如果年度預算因為它就必須符合年度的舉債的上限那這個基本上在安排上就會有它的困難"},{"start":245.407,"end":266.103,"text":"所以依照目前我們台灣的這個財政能力財政紀律也好不論是這一個我們的GDP可以達到一兆美元來說或者中央負債比只有24.3的情況底下我們在財政能力的話完全是沒有這個問題但是如果沒有一次編族的話可能就會形成一個戰略的缺口這個部分我就要請教一下那個部長有請一下顧部長"},{"start":272.992,"end":299.401,"text":"是 我們今天的專報裡面就特別我們本來說這個專報的角度要怎麼寫所以我們在討論過程當中我們就是要從一個強化防衛作戰整體效能這個部分來做說明我講在書面上 資料部長你們也寫得非常清楚第二三頁的部分為什麼要這樣編列非常清楚我想這個部分之外我想要就教部長一個事情因為最近臉書有在公布說金融時報的部分在3月21號"},{"start":301.282,"end":315.753,"text":"有一個標題就是台灣憂慮美國對伊朗戰士飛彈的存量消耗會影響到未來台海衝突的嚇阻能力然後發言的人又是一個匿名的國防部的官員這個部分是不是代表國防部的立場"},{"start":320.968,"end":345.301,"text":"官員目前為止我們跟美方一直保持密切協調我們採購的那個我只是在求證於說這個部分是不是屬於我們國防部官員對外表示出國防部擔心的地方啊也就是說文章裡頭寫到說空對地的這個飛彈跟戰斧飛彈的一個消耗美國在伊朗戰爭消耗的這個存量無法快速匿補上會不會對台海造成風險"},{"start":346.061,"end":371.068,"text":"我想那個是他的一個評估他現在講的是空對地的巡弋飛彈也就是對地打擊飛彈的這個部分那事實上依我個人的理解美軍他在全球部署他不會把所有的東西都放在一個地方就給他用完他還是要針對戰區裡面會擬定他所需要的最基因為美軍的存量到底多少其實是大家看不到的"},{"start":371.308,"end":400.231,"text":"那是不是有這種擔心因為有一個匿名的國防部官員這麼說這我要求證於部長的原因是這個地方因為既然已經被臉書已經一直在傳播了是不是需要做一定程度的澄清這是第一個問題啊第二個問題這件事情也突顯出來我們特別條例當中在美軍軍購的一個很重要的重點也就是偽製的部分跟商購的部分它其實包括這個天空飛彈也好或者是包括無人機也好攻擊型的無人機也好這基本上"},{"start":400.911,"end":423.861,"text":"就是在對應這種事情的情況底下如果我們有自主生產的話那基本上就不用太過依賴美國他在國防的這個存量的問題是不是這樣的情況更凸顯說這商購的部分跟我們委制的部分的關鍵性是不是應該從這個部分來切入來說明會比較妥適一點 部長就是國防自主優先對啊"},{"start":424.681,"end":445.702,"text":"對 就是說從整體的韌性上來看 我們能夠越不依賴外國那當然我們的國防自主能力的提升絕對是對我們作戰韌性跟作戰戰力的提升是有幫忙的但是有一些我們確實沒有辦法能夠產生出來我們才是軍購所以國防自主優先現在反而會被排去排到這個後面說"},{"start":446.523,"end":462.927,"text":"國防自主不重要這件事情我也沒辦法理解所以我們我剛剛已經一再講特別是就無人載具的這個部分我們要掌握這個排除紅色供應鏈然後我們來扶植國內無人載具產業鏈發展來提升我們國防自主的能力來降低資訊安全的威脅這是我們應該要首要做的地方"},{"start":465.128,"end":476.457,"text":"是 對 部長 我也是說依照現在整個伊朗的情勢來說我們自主國防反而更加的重要應該是從這個部分來發言對國人來說比較安心對整個特別預算的通過會比較有幫助這以上我可以對您的建議 謝謝好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:18:45+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T13:18:46+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請主計處陳副主計長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":"2026-03-23T13:18:45.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:18:45.369000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:18:45.369000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T13:19:01.307000+08:00","text":"副主計長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:19:01.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:19:11.590000+08:00","text":"這一次的特別預算討論過程當中有兩項爭議，一個是有關於社福排擠或不排擠，或者預算編列方式的問題。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:19:11.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:19:19.572000+08:00","text":"本席稍微了解一下，按照我們今年度公務預算支出總共是3兆715億的情況底下，舉債上限是4,607億，扣除已舉債的2,992億，剩下舉債額度是1,615億。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:19:28.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:19:51.125000+08:00","text":"國民黨一直說軍購會排擠到民生、排擠到社福，我稍微算了一下我們最近所推出的八大津貼的部分，如果算起來，到7月1號開始調漲的話，約莫大概要追加預算是215.4億，即便回溯到1月1號的部分，也不過是364.9億，在這種情況底下，應該還在舉債的範圍吧？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:19:56.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:19:57.548000+08:00","text":"不會有排擠的問題吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":"2026-03-23T13:19:58.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:20:18.082000+08:00","text":"首先跟委員報告，有關社會福利的部分都是在年度預算，而軍購的部分是在特別條例，所以兩個是不同的體系，特別預算有自己個別另外財源的規劃，因此它不會衝擊到社福的部分。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":"2026-03-23T13:20:18.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:20:39.451000+08:00","text":"有關剛剛委員所提的社福，如果是7月開始實施的話是215億，或甚至追溯全年，基本上，行政院在規劃社會福利相關措施時，經過盤點以後都還是有能力控制在舉債的上限範圍內……","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:20:39.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:20:50.216000+08:00","text":"副主計長可能要注意一下，就是在野黨基本上有一些不負責任的加碼，還有不願意審總預算的情況，恐怕才是讓這些弱勢團體領不到的關鍵原因嘛，對不對？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:20:52.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:21:07.622000+08:00","text":"回到剛剛在預算編列上一個很重要的關鍵，在藍與白的版本當中都把項目限制在發價書的項目，而將國內委製及商購的部分予以排除，想要把它放在公務預算。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:21:08.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:21:10.703000+08:00","text":"可是如果編在年度的公務預算的話，它會牽扯到兩個問題，一個是時間的問題，另一個是舉債的問題。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:21:16.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:21:34.597000+08:00","text":"針對時間的問題，很多公務預算要提早一年前編定，就算用追加預算也有一定的流程，所以很多軍購案其實簽了意向書之後都要等美國國會的通過，在公布前本來就是不能講的，其實過去在國民黨執政時的軍購也是一樣的流程。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:21:36.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:21:41.618000+08:00","text":"是不是透過這種每年編列的方式，在時間上會造成一種壓力？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:21:41.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:21:51.720000+08:00","text":"會造成美國的疑慮，也會認為沒有決心購買，順位也會往後拉，也擔心我們戰力會形成一個缺口，這是一個可能性，時間上是不是一個問題？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:21:51.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:22:03.304000+08:00","text":"第二個是舉債的部分，如果它全部都擠在所謂的公務預算，8年用8,700億來分配的話，平均就要再舉債1,000億，就會破了剛剛舉債的15%上限，這兩個會不會造成這樣的問題？","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:22:03.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:22:03.524000+08:00","text":"請副主計長。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":"2026-03-23T13:22:08.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:22:29.722000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，基本上，我們以往軍購的部分都是一次編列多年期的預算，主要就是能夠整體的規劃整個配套是……","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:22:29.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:22:31.343000+08:00","text":"所以一定要採取特別預算嘛！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":"2026-03-23T13:22:31.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:22:33.706000+08:00","text":"對，才可以確保……尤其是跟美方在……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:22:34.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:22:40.594000+08:00","text":"所以年度預算跟追加預算都沒有辦法用一次編列的方式，是必須採取特別預算的關鍵原因嘛，對不對？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:22:40.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:22:41.035000+08:00","text":"副主計長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳副主計長慧娟","start":"2026-03-23T13:22:41.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:22:49.606000+08:00","text":"是的，如果是年度預算就必須符合年度的舉債上限，在安排上就會有它的困難。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:22:50.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:23:08.821000+08:00","text":"所以依照目前臺灣的財政能力及財政紀律，以及我們的GDP可以達到1兆美元，或者中央的負債比只有24.3的情況底下，我們在財政能力方面完全是沒有問題，但是如果沒有一次編足的話可能就會形成一個戰略的缺口嘛！","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:23:09.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:23:11.103000+08:00","text":"這個部分要請教部長，有請顧部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-23T13:23:21.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:23:30.717000+08:00","text":"我們本來討論今天專報的角度要如何呈現，在討論過程當中是從一個強化防衛作戰整體效能的部分來做說明……","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:23:31.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:23:36.679000+08:00","text":"部長，你們的書面資料寫得非常清楚，第2、3頁針對為什麼要這樣編列也寫得非常清楚。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:23:37.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:24:00.753000+08:00","text":"另外想就教部長，因為最近臉書有公布一篇文章：金融時報在3月21號有一個標題「臺灣憂慮美國對伊朗戰事飛彈的存量消耗會影響到未來臺海衝突的嚇阻能力」，發言的人又是一位匿名的國防部官員，這篇文章是不是代表國防部的立場？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-03-23T13:24:06.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:24:11.551000+08:00","text":"報告委員，目前為止我們跟美方一直保持密切協調，我們採購的MES飛彈預期會今年開始交。","quality":0.59},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:24:12.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:24:16.754000+08:00","text":"我只是在求證這個部分是不是屬於我們國防部官員的對外表示？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:24:17.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:24:18.455000+08:00","text":"是不是國防部擔心的地方？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:24:20.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:24:30.301000+08:00","text":"文章裡頭寫道：美國在伊朗戰爭消耗的空對地飛彈跟戰斧飛彈的存量無法快速遞補上，會不會對臺海造成風險？部長。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-03-23T13:24:31.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:24:52.787000+08:00","text":"我想那是個人的評估，他是講空對地的巡弋飛彈，也就是對地打擊飛彈的部分，事實上，依我個人的理解，美軍在全球部署時不會把所有的裝備都放在同一個地方並用完，它還是要針對各戰區擬定所需要的最……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:24:52.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:24:57.489000+08:00","text":"因為美軍的存量到底多少，其實是大家看不到的，是不是會有這種擔心？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:24:57.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:25:08.137000+08:00","text":"因為有一位匿名的國防部官員這麼說，這是我要求證於部長的原因，既然已經被臉書一直在傳播了，是不是需要做一定程度的澄清？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:25:08.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:25:47.020000+08:00","text":"這是第一個問題；第二個問題，這件事情也凸顯出我們特別條例當中，在對美軍購一個很重要的重點，也就是委製跟商購的部分，它其實包括天弓飛彈或者是攻擊型的無人機也好，基本上就是在對應這種情況，如果我們有自主生產的話，就不用太過依賴美國在國防的存量問題，是不是這樣的情況更凸顯商購跟委製部分的關鍵性，是不是應該從這個部分來切入說明會比較妥適一點？部長","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-23T13:25:47.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:25:48.841000+08:00","text":"就是國防自主優先。對啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-23T13:25:50.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:26:27.907000+08:00","text":"從整體的韌性上來看，我們能夠越不倚賴外國，當然我們國防自主能力的提升，絕對對於作戰韌性跟不對稱戰力的提升是有幫忙的，但是有一些我們確實沒有辦法能夠產製出來的才軍購，所以國防自主優先現在反而會被排序排到後面，說國防自主不重要這件事情我也沒辦法理解，所以我剛剛特別就無人載具的部分已經一再講，我們要掌握排除紅色供應鏈，然後扶植國內無人載具產業鏈發展，提升我們國防自主能力，降低資訊安全的威脅，這是我們應該首先要做的地方。","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-03-23T13:26:30.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-23T13:26:41.437000+08:00","text":"部長，我的意思是，依照現在整個伊朗的情勢來看，我們自主國防反而更加的重要，應該是從這個部分來發言對國人來說會比較安心，對整個特別預算的通過也會比較有幫助，以上是我對你的建議，謝謝。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"主席（陳委員冠廷）","start":"2026-03-23T13:26:41.937000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T13:26:43.937000+08:00","text":"謝謝郭國文委員。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"主席（陳委員冠廷）","start":"2026-03-23T13:26:44.237000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-23T13:26:47.379857+08:00","text":"接下來我們請鄭正鈐委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}