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欢迎订阅我的频道"},{"start":667.227,"end":667.348,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":711.749,"end":712.206,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅我的频道"},{"start":768.865,"end":769.494,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅我的频道"},{"start":857.677,"end":858.1,"text":"谢谢观看,下次见!"},{"start":943.343,"end":943.425,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1267.168,"end":1268.076,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1490.445,"end":1491.388,"text":"谢谢观看,下次见!"},{"start":1771.823,"end":1779.408,"text":"現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀現在請國家發展委員會劉慶清主委報告"},{"start":1809.879,"end":1830.675,"text":"主席 各位委員 先進 大家好今天成文貴會邀請本會列席就因應國際經貿情勢變化如何協助我國產業面對台幣匯率及國際能源價格巨變進行報告本會請就業管的"},{"start":1831.956,"end":1850.655,"text":"部分進行說明進行委員不吝指教第一個就是我們對經濟的角度來看國內經濟表現上半年是相當穩健的那但是下半年還是充滿了全球的不定性的增加這個增加我想"},{"start":1852.516,"end":1874.842,"text":"應該在7月9號會有一個比較明朗的結果這個部分我們在上半年整個景氣我們台灣的上半年成長達到5.35%表現是優於預期主要在AI及高速運算等發展上面都有一個提前備貨的效應所以1到5月我們的出口大幅的成長24.3%加上"},{"start":1879.163,"end":1899.029,"text":"國內半導體大廠快速擴充先行製程跟這個高階的封測也帶動了民間的固定投資這個投資也增加了20.8%也一如我們在去年的預測今年的國內經濟投資在國內投資部分應該也是一個呈現一個5.7兆以上的一個程度"},{"start":1900.729,"end":1929.576,"text":"那這個展辦下半年來講對AI而言AI也有一些新的機型譬如說GB300會在下半年開始進行出貨都應該會帶動一定的數字所以我們認為在下半年在AI的部分還是呈現一個比較樂觀的情形那也助於整體的帶動那我們對於國內部分我們也會同時推動一些這個擴大內需的方案來支撐國內的產業能夠有更好的發展那"},{"start":1931.311,"end":1950.297,"text":"幾個變因 大概最大的變因還是在關稅的結果還有地緣政治的衝突造成我們對於未來多少有受一點小部分的危險這個影響的部分也隨著以色列跟伊朗的戰爭的停火有一些比較平緩的趨勢"},{"start":1951.897,"end":1970.316,"text":"那我們預估今年的下半年的經濟成長率可能會列於上半年但是全年因為上半年的高成長我們還是預估在3.1%大概這個數字那跟我們原來希望能夠達到3%以上的目標是可以一致的"},{"start":1970.896,"end":1988.085,"text":"那第二個在國內的物價那隨著這個中東局勢的變動我們比較擔心的是國內物價跟這個油價的波動那今年的物價是逐月減緩了我們五月到五月為止消費者的指數CPI已經降到了1.55"},{"start":1989.326,"end":2009.426,"text":"那1至5月的平均是2.04也比去年去年上半年同期的2.24來的低那今年的CPI的指數介於1.7到2之間也會低於去年的2.18的一個水平所以在整個物價控制還在一個可控的狀態那這個隨著這個戰爭的變動"},{"start":2014.391,"end":2026.198,"text":"本來5月2號我們大概油價是61.69那隨著雙方衝突就往上拉拉到6月20號的是79.05但是到6月23號就降下來到73.35的油價那73.35幾乎是全年的均價"},{"start":2032.242,"end":2042.829,"text":"即使拉到79也不是今年今年1月份1月15是最高的時候是83.48都還在一個可控的範圍內我們當時預估整個物價的影響是在0.2%但是隨著這個戰爭如果確定會和談下來的話整個衝突就會大幅的減少"},{"start":2052.995,"end":2070.76,"text":"那另外我們也因為這樣我們也開了一個會我們在行政院這個副院長領導之下我們針對這個破安戰爭對物價的影響那6月13日我們上來這個我們當時做了幾個劇本包括考慮到這個荷摩斯海峽的衝擊會影響到我國大概20%"},{"start":2074.341,"end":2090.651,"text":"但是現在看起來整個影響都會變得隨著這個穩定下來之後都在縮小之中那我們還是會持續透過這個穩定物價小組定期的聚會在6月20開完會之後我們訂了一些應變措施之外那我們會隨著這個劇本的發展我們會隨時引領"},{"start":2094.153,"end":2122.452,"text":"让整个物价能够持续维持在2%以下的CPI那另外在扩大内需我们希望透过新产业新动能新布局三个方向确保中长期的经济稳定那新产业的部分我们透过AI十大建设去带动各种产业的变动包括将现有产业的AI化那形成新的AI产业那包括推动新的这个细光子量子这个机器人的部分"},{"start":2124.573,"end":2145.49,"text":"软离产业我们都会大幅的带动希望那再来我们同时也推动六大区域的产业发展那我们这个产业发展跟生活圈的带动那以及均衡台湾152项建设那我们希望也同时在强化创造这种高薪就业机会以及持续推动台湾三大投资台湾方案"},{"start":2146.09,"end":2175.75,"text":"让我们这个厂商能够多元布局同时确保经济的稳定跟成长所以面对这个整体的经贸政策的不稳定跟地缘政治的风险变动那本会会跟相关的部会经济部国科会速发部等单位随时掌握到国际的情势然后我们随时因应那力求整个经济稳健的发展以及这个物价的稳定那以上报告进行指教也谢谢各位委员"},{"start":2179.111,"end":2182.432,"text":"主席 各位委員 大家早今天承蒙貴委員會邀請就因應國際經貿情勢變化如何協助我國產業面對"},{"start":2205.57,"end":2214.183,"text":"新台幣匯率及国际能源价格巨变进行专业报告进行各位委员不吝视教受国际情报"},{"start":2215.458,"end":2238.745,"text":"形势变化影响今年美元走弱,使得亚洲货币普遍面临升值的压力。台湾经济高度仰赖出口,汇率波动可能冲击企业营运的成本与国际竞争力。此外,俄乌战争以及以伊冲突等地缘政治的风险,造成国际能源价格波动,使我国企业面临了挑战。"},{"start":2240.349,"end":2257.178,"text":"為協助產業因應國際情勢本部以研擬因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別條例提供金融支持提升產業競爭力開拓多元市場等支持的措施金融支持包括外銷貸款"},{"start":2259.4,"end":2277.183,"text":"优惠保证加码中小微企业贷款加码,使企业稳住经营,也透过鼓励产业投入技术升级及设备态患,调整产业体质,同时借由台湾Cellet、台湾Excel共同品牌部件海外通路。"},{"start":2277.683,"end":2293.294,"text":"参加国际展会并协助企业赴海外争取订单拓展全球市场强化产业的因应能力本部将扩大协助中小企业及传统产业强化韧性提升竞争力以降低汇率波动的影响"},{"start":2294.315,"end":2311.241,"text":"本部持續與進口公衛產業工協會中小企業信保基金及中小企業聯合輔導基金會合作提供中小企業的避險知識並輔導廠商多角化經營來因應新台幣的升值本部透過產業升級創新平台輔導協助傳產技術開發等計畫協助企業提升研發能量並搭配設備"},{"start":2322.793,"end":2349.709,"text":"投資體檢開舊換新設備協助傳統產業技術升級此外透過提供中小型企業創新研發協助中小企業取得100萬至1000萬的補助進行創新技術的研發淨零轉型也是協助中小企業提升競爭力的重要做法本部安排專家房廠進行診斷服務協助中小企業導入綠色數位工具"},{"start":2350.349,"end":2379.12,"text":"减碳制成煤和能源技术服务公司或设备商协助业者降低生产成本为培育百工百业AI人才及促进产业AI化本部透过辅助30人以下中小为企业培训AI人才令结合专业技术法人能量陆续开放53条最先进设备的AI试炼的产线培育"},{"start":2380.52,"end":2390.647,"text":"可在開發生產線使用AI的10座人才目前每條四支線每年有500人的培訓量預計一年可以提供25000人"},{"start":2393.339,"end":2417.186,"text":"試著培訓量能提升中小企業的競爭力此外 本部已參考國際大廠柯鋼設有公版教材開設實理與線上AI人培課程並接軌iPath人才能力鑑定的機制同時已經建立AI導入指引籌組專家服務團副廠提供診斷輔導提供生產管理改善建議"},{"start":2418.286,"end":2431.563,"text":"且扩大建制产业共同需求之AI软体及硬体设备让业者进行实作演练强化传统产业AI技能提升营运品质及效能"},{"start":2432.523,"end":2461.813,"text":"本部針對30人以下的中小微企業提供周轉性支出及購買機器設備貸款可取得貸款額度最高3500萬元2.22%的低利率9至10成的高保證成數搭配利息減碼補助協助企業取得營運資金另外對具出口時機的中小企業提供外銷貸款優惠保證方案保證融資額度最高可以達到1億元保證成數最高9成"},{"start":2463.663,"end":2484.834,"text":"同時協助出國導向中小企業強化國際競爭力拓展新南向及潛力市場6月11日以伊衝突發生以來布蘭特原油期貨價格最高曾經上漲了14%6月24日川普總統宣布以伊達成停火協議布蘭特原油價格回挫至67.14美元"},{"start":2487.745,"end":2495.183,"text":"依蓬勃油價情境推演若衝突降溫並達成停火協議油價將回落到每一桶"},{"start":2496.609,"end":2516.566,"text":"65元本部密切注意中東情勢的後續發展並成立應變小組備妥因應方案以確保能源供應韌性並協助產業因應國際化能源價格的變動我國能源主要來自進口113年能源進口率高達95.77%國際能源價格受地緣政治的影響我國就採取"},{"start":2524.017,"end":2546.767,"text":"進口來源多元化以長約為主的採購模式並儲備充足的安全量強化能源供給的韌性同時兼顧反應成本照顧民生穩定度假的穩定物價的前提下合理調整國內能源價格油價方面中油公司已有緩衝機制及機動調降貨物稅穩定國內汽柴油價格以減緩油價上漲"},{"start":2552.89,"end":2581.409,"text":"对国内民生产业的冲击天然气价格方面中油公司每月检讨异化天然气进口成本变动关注市场的状况兼顾稳定供应及支持产业的发展电价方面本部一电业法第49条规定定定公共受电业电价费率计算公式并设置电价费率审议委员会每年办理两次的"},{"start":2582.278,"end":2591.164,"text":"電價檢討今年4月電價審議會已經決議電價不調整試用期間為今年的4月到9月未來電價調整能依循現行電價調整機制辦理由電價審議委員會審慎評估產業中心條例第10條之一修正案於今年5月7日公布實施"},{"start":2607.372,"end":2612.312,"text":"投資節能減碳相關設備或技術得申請適用投資抵減"},{"start":2613.72,"end":2638.649,"text":"可抵减支出金额上限提高至20亿元在节能绩效保证专案示范推广补助方案协助企业运用Exco服务模式进行节能改善使专案经费的补助20%到40%每案补助的上限500万元整在动力与公用设备补助方面企业购置高能"},{"start":2640.302,"end":2663.139,"text":"高能源效率是空壓機、通風機以及IE4馬達依據其額定功率每千瓦補助700至5000元每案補助上限為500至1500萬元另外鼓勵中小企業投入節能每案補助金額依補助基準乘以1.2倍在節能負擔方面成立節能節電服務團"},{"start":2665.236,"end":2678.011,"text":"提供企业节能咨询、现场诊断、评估建议及ESCO、媒合等资讯并设置一站式资讯服务窗口提供企业及时、简便、有效率的服务"},{"start":2678.988,"end":2699.143,"text":"面對國際經貿情勢劇烈的波動政府會做產業最堅實的後盾不會讓任何一個產業孤軍奮鬥除了協助提升經營韌性外也與產業保持密切的溝通主動關心業者所面臨的問題全力協助產業穩健經營"},{"start":2701.525,"end":2724.006,"text":"本部至今年推动中小微企业多元振兴发展方案以数位转型、净零转型、通路发展等策略以及30人以下数位协助与优惠贷款、租税优惠鼓励为员工加薪、额外额度保证等配套提升中小微企业的生产力"},{"start":2724.967,"end":2732.217,"text":"此外,藉由進口來源多元化、長約採購、儲備安全存量確保國內能源供應安全,透過油價緩衝及電價因應等機制減緩能源價格變動之衝擊,提供租稅優惠"},{"start":2743.25,"end":2762.273,"text":"節能補助等協助企業降低能源成本提升產業的競爭力以上報告敬請各位委員指正視角並祝各位委員身體健康 處事順利好 謝謝我們現在請農業部胡中一次長報告"},{"start":2770.222,"end":2784.293,"text":"主席 各位委員 以及各位先進 大家好很榮幸能夠代表農業部列席大會 貴委員會 全體委員會議就因應國際經貿情勢變化如何協助我國產業面對台幣 匯率及國際能源價格巨變進行報告敬請不吝施加"},{"start":2795.618,"end":2803.134,"text":"首先在應對新台幣匯率波動可能採取策略及本部可提供之協助方面"},{"start":2805.404,"end":2830.211,"text":"臺灣人口稠密 農業資源碩現生產不足部分需仰賴進口同時政府也積極提升臺灣農產品競爭力推動農產品外銷與擴大國際市場提高農民所得因此新臺幣匯率的升貶值對於農產品的進出口成本和競爭卻有顯著的影響"},{"start":2832.233,"end":2850.111,"text":"因應新台幣匯率的波動,農產業可採取之策略包括第一,強化成本管理與建立優質、安全、安心可追溯的產品特性,提高附加價值第二,分散市場與匯率風險"},{"start":2854.39,"end":2862.418,"text":"農業部可提供的協助包括第一營造農業穩定經營環境第二掌握國際市場資訊分析匯率趨勢並運用低利貸款或獎勵輔導農民及農企業舒緩資金壓力第三協助業者開拓國際市場"},{"start":2877.984,"end":2895.211,"text":"建立台湾农产品的国际品牌形象第四导致智慧科技发展加工技术提升产业竞争力其次在应对国际能源价格巨变可采取策略及农业部可提供之协助方面"},{"start":2896.611,"end":2922.076,"text":"國際能源價格上漲將直接提高農漁業生產成本例如漁船燃油農機用油冷鏈物流等進而影響到產業發展此外能源價格上漲帶動國際物流成本提高也不利農產品出口農產業可以採取的策略包括第一節約能源以提高效率經營系統第二"},{"start":2925.543,"end":2949.101,"text":"推動農業綠能應用第三調整生產模式與發展適應性強抗逆性好的品種降低生產風險農業部可提供之協助包括第一提供農業用油用電補貼及給予優惠第二提供鼓勵購置省能源設備"},{"start":2953.106,"end":2979.005,"text":"裝或者是加裝改裝燃油系統設備或投資再生能源設備低利貸款或獎勵第三投入經費研發農業替代能源節能技術並推廣給農民使用第四完善農產品能鏈物流網絡等基礎建設提升效率及降低"},{"start":2982.562,"end":3001.002,"text":"農業部將持續關注美國對等關稅新台幣匯率變動以及國際能源價格等經貿情勢發展透過強化農業金融支持提升產業競爭力協助開拓多元市場等三大面向涵蓋生產儲運"},{"start":3002.623,"end":3016.634,"text":"及產銷至外銷成本值資金協助、生產產育補助以及外銷獎勵等六大措施,藉由政府政策引導跟溝通,來持續強化榮譽續產業韌性、滾動檢討運營方案,以協助產業提升競爭力。"},{"start":3023.019,"end":3041.033,"text":"開拓多元市場有效因應台幣匯率及國際能源價格巨變來維護我國農漁業經營者的權利以上報告敬請各位委員不吝嗇謝謝我們現在請中央銀行嚴中大副總裁報告"},{"start":3050.064,"end":3074.237,"text":"主席各位委員以下本函僅就以主題相關的部分提出說明報告的第一部分是有關國有關國際經貿情勢的議題第一點我們想說明的是美國關稅政策導致全球貿易緊張局勢急速升溫不確定性的居高抑制了全球的需求成長請翻到下一頁"},{"start":3075.578,"end":3102.564,"text":"第二點我們想強調的是本年以來國際的主要經濟預測機構均下修了全球經濟的掌握的預測值第三點我們要說明的是美國的關稅政策宣布以後全球的金融市場大幅震盪美債殖利率與美元指數走勢脫鉤特別是請大家看到我們下一頁的圖3這邊美元指數和美國公債殖利率在"},{"start":3103.644,"end":3114.13,"text":"在最近幾個月是大幅度的走勢完全跟過去不一樣了第四點我們想說明的是今日的中東的衝突國際油價驟升到6月20號的78.73美銅"},{"start":3122.153,"end":3134.845,"text":"那隨著最近的昨天的伊朗與以色列的停火協議油價已經由這個高點下降到每桶69.14美元左右"},{"start":3136.132,"end":3163.648,"text":"下一頁報告的第二部分是有關新台幣匯率波動對進出口廠商的影響及因應措施第一點我們要想說明的是近期新台幣匯率升值幅度較大主要系台灣的經濟基本面較佳為期波動幅度也低於其他主要貨幣第一點我們想說明的是今年以來國際美元走弱加上台灣的經濟基本面這邊講的是經濟成長率和出口成長率"},{"start":3164.528,"end":3177.879,"text":"都導致了台灣的台幣的升值小其他國家為大的一個主要原因事實上長期以來台幣對美元匯率我們一直讓他維持在跟其他貨幣來講是相對穩定的請大家參考圖8這個下一頁的圖8這邊顯示的波動度的一個圖形"},{"start":3185.965,"end":3198.376,"text":"第二点我们想说明是台湾出口深受国外需求的影响而且近年来我们的产品竞争力的提升减缓新台币汇率波动对产品竞争力的影响特别是在2019年到2022年初"},{"start":3202.213,"end":3224.796,"text":"台幣兑美元汇率升值的也曾经出现大幅升值为2020年到2022年这三年期间台湾的出口成长平均能够维持到13.9%经济成长率也维持在4.3左右这些都是优于其他经济体的一个表现请翻到下一页"},{"start":3226.479,"end":3247.117,"text":"由于台湾本身是贸易利国出口会带动会延伸进口需求新台币升值对出口的不利影响部分会被进口成本的下降的益处抵消请翻到下一页第三点我们想强调的是台币汇率在一段期间有升有贬汇率升贬对企业造成的"},{"start":3247.958,"end":3270.479,"text":"外幣兌換損益應該可以互相互抵我們這邊列示了上市櫃公司在過去十年的一個統計資料請大家參考第四點我們想說明是企業我們經過我們的與企業的反彈企業主要的採取因應台幣升值方式有請下一頁"},{"start":3271.607,"end":3300.673,"text":"自然避險是主要多數企業採取的主要避險方式我想臺灣的產商出口產商裡面有九成是用美元來報價進口的產商裡面有八成是用美元來報價所以這個是很自然的一個採用自然避險的一個原因第二個產商也表示了他們透過調整短期中長期的產銷模式來因應匯率的波動"},{"start":3302.12,"end":3320.18,"text":"報告的第三部分是有關近期國際油價的趨勢及因應第一點 近期油價上漲可能是屬於短期現象對國內的物價影響上述有限我想我們剛才看到國際油價已經大幅度的回跌了"},{"start":3321.564,"end":3335.893,"text":"第二點我們想說明的是本行將持續關注國際政經情勢對國際油價與國內物價的影響採取妥適的貨幣政策以達成維持物價穩定的法定職責以上報告敬請委員指教謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":3341.958,"end":3359.46,"text":"現在進行詢答委員質詢前原例做以下宣告每位委員發言時間本會委員6分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘上午11點截止發言登記首先請鄭正前委員發言"},{"start":3370.196,"end":3384.962,"text":"謝謝主席今天特別安排了因應國際經貿形勢變化如何協助我國產業面對台幣匯率升值及國際能源價格巨變的問題我想首先先請教一下那個國發會主委好不好劉主委"},{"start":3396.397,"end":3407.749,"text":"因為我在想說今天就是包括了我們央行跟經濟部都一起在 所以我覺得這問題其實特別的好那剛剛央行的副總裁有特別提到說其實目前整個"},{"start":3411.058,"end":3425.882,"text":"近期的一個油價波動他覺得這可能會是一個短期的一個現象請問你怎麼看這件事情目前就油價的波動我們來看今年1到6月來看最高點事實上是在1月15號是83.48"},{"start":3429.443,"end":3449.835,"text":"那我們戰爭發生的時候呢其實上6月19號最高到80.37其實這個數字也沒有達到今年的最高點隨後降下來到73.35那大家比較擔心的會是如果往下走把那個荷末斯海峽如果封鎖了那就會有比較可能帶動比較大的影響"},{"start":3450.615,"end":3470.469,"text":"但是從昨天川普宣布兩邊停火到今天早上伊朗也同意了那整個戰爭情勢看起來是往下滑那對油價的影響目前我們還在評估但至少到了昨天是到23號掉到73.35已經到到今年的均價OK 還是一個"},{"start":3471.55,"end":3494.14,"text":"之前我們一部部長他曾經有提到給我的數字他說我們油價如果漲10%對CPI會影響0.3%這樣的數字其實是正確的嗎我們是做了兩個評估啦其中一個評估主要是我們在評估油價大概會漲多少那我們其實在這次的評估我們認為最多影響沒有到0.3是0.2"},{"start":3496.101,"end":3502.627,"text":"會到0.2不會到0.3那基本上來講就是說油價的波動氣確實對我們CPI會有些影響那因為我覺得這邊因為看到你這邊的數位報導當中也特別提到一個狀態我們上半年的一個經濟成長的數字預計是5.35%那我看央行這邊的數字Q1的時候是達到5.48%那我這邊在想說那如果說這樣整個油價能夠整個"},{"start":3524.165,"end":3528.512,"text":"那個情勢大家都覺得是短期的狀態我們為什麼下半年的經濟預測只預測1%"},{"start":3531.3,"end":3555.021,"text":"下半年主要是充滿了不定性兩個因素一個是上半年的快速拉貨有可能會影響到下半年因為全年的供應量其實是固定的那有可能影響到下半年的出貨那第二個事情是大家對於下半年如果是在關稅政策各方面的不確定性其實是一直存在所以今年對我們來講我們是比較謹慎在看今年"},{"start":3555.461,"end":3573.851,"text":"OK所以不確定性其實它也可能好也可能不好所以1%的狀態你覺得是不好是Worst case狀態可能還有1%的狀態現在是以Worst case來估的所以是以Worst case的狀態來做一個評估沒錯OK好理解好謝謝主委那我想接下來請一下郭智輝郭部長郭部長"},{"start":3583.604,"end":3605.846,"text":"委員好部長好因為禮拜四我們也就教過您有關於那個伊朗這邊相關的中東相關的問題你也給了我們一些具體的數字那因為現在局勢確實變化非常的多那一下就停下來那我想這邊特別請教一下因為那個我們最近看到了一些相關的問題就是整個"},{"start":3607.968,"end":3619.314,"text":"天然氣的問題我想先請教一下我們目前台灣的天然氣發電大概佔總體發電量的百分之多少接近那個"},{"start":3621.363,"end":3647.548,"text":"差不多接近四成多只接近四成是不是天然氣發電量只接近四成嘛對不對那我想說以這樣的一個情況因為我們看到就是行政院2025年公佈這個河山停基之後的一個配比的狀態我這樣整個加起來狀態就藍煤29.6 藍氣52跟再生能源16.3那目前我們燃氣的部分只有到四成是不是"},{"start":3648.596,"end":3664.659,"text":"所以它這個數字當中的差距是在哪裡45%左右所以因為我看這邊的數字的時候整個加起來也是97.9%也不到100%那剩下的2.1%的部分是核能上半年發電的部分還是怎麼樣的數字"},{"start":3665.714,"end":3687.102,"text":"因為我們這是用全年平均的數字所以當然是包括這個5月17號以前的所以說目前整個天然氣的發電在45%可是我們全年可能會到52%是這個狀態對不對平均下來會到52%所以表示我們下半年我們天然氣的用量一定會增加很多對不對"},{"start":3688.582,"end":3715.941,"text":"會增加很多所以說針對這樣的國際情勢的變化尤其中東的部分我們更要特別的關注那尤其是部長那天有提到說當然就是像赫姆治海峽現在可能是也是順利在走可是你那時候有提到說台灣有25%的天然氣進口是透過這個海峽這邊過來的那我們對於這樣子的一個影響的時候經濟部這邊有沒有什麼更清楚的一個"},{"start":3718.423,"end":3725.598,"text":"來規劃 表示我們接下來兩個月的天然氣的發電量然後怎麼樣去穩定這樣子的一個天然氣的一個進口"},{"start":3726.898,"end":3754.969,"text":"這個天然氣的部分我要跟委員報告我們大概價格的部分應該是我們都是採取現貨這個觀察現貨的狀況那至於說您剛剛所關注的這個部分我們大概對這個中長期的契約供應商我們有跟他在聯絡那希望他能夠提前來交貨這個先穩住供應量那麼這個如果有缺口的部分呢"},{"start":3755.569,"end":3782.903,"text":"有缺口的部分我們當然是從這個現貨的市場裡面來買進那這個主要我們還是不是只有一個地方在購買這個天然氣所以我這邊特別提到因為你說上半年我們的那個天然氣的佔比大概只有佔45%那全年要到52%的時候表示下半年的比重會非常的高你預計下半年我們天然氣的發電量比重大概要到多高才會變成全年52%"},{"start":3784.104,"end":3785.284,"text":"所以說下半年基本上還是會拉高三個百分比嘛對不對45到"},{"start":3805.552,"end":3828.479,"text":"或者是更高的一個部分所以說我們像下半年的時候天然氣的量肯定是會非常的多那我在這邊也特別提到因為針對整個能源的部分我們一直有關注到像最近跟整個再生能源有兩個很相關的一個議題我這邊也特別提到一個部分一個地方的時候就是大樹的和珊光電的問題"},{"start":3830.56,"end":3845.902,"text":"這邊是一個狀態那之前的時候呢廠商認為是合法開發也取得居民的同意可居民之後覺得說好像並不是這麼一回事針對這個大樹的核戰觀念的部分的時候我想請教經濟部這邊的立場是什麼我們後續要怎麼去解決這個問題"},{"start":3846.923,"end":3857.709,"text":"是 報告委員 我想經濟部的立場只要合法合規我們就是依照合法合規去處理那因為這個案場它事實上目前是嚴重的違反這個規定"},{"start":3862.171,"end":3884.132,"text":"高雄市政府已經對他採取的這個措施經濟部也在昨天馬上發出這個停止他再繼續進行工程的這個OK也已經發布新的一個指令出來了那我這邊想再問一個就是經濟部跟農業部請一下農業部次長一下因為那個同時跟綠能有關的部分另外就是漁電"},{"start":3885.333,"end":3914.474,"text":"發電的一個問題那最近有一家廠商誠心綠能就是最大的漁電工程廠商也出了狀態那他們認為可能跟政策的前後不一致產生了一些這樣的關係那我想請教針對不管是光電或者是漁電的部分我們經濟部跟農業部這邊的時候是不是有一個協調的機制然後讓廠商能夠有一個從頭到尾一致性的標準去"},{"start":3915.714,"end":3934.94,"text":"而不是之前是一種標準之後又是一種標準可是請次長回答一下謝謝委員事實上政策一直都沒有不一致完全是一致我們跟經濟部也有非常緊密的在就能源的問題在做接洽同時我們的做法都是一樣的那事實上"},{"start":3935.84,"end":3957.726,"text":"所謂的不一致就是其實在農業我們是以農業漁業為本那綠能為價值但是現在如果這些業者他沒有以他的這個漁業或者是農業經營計畫來按照這個來進行他只要用光電的話他就會站在他的立場認為說你這個政策變來變去其實政策一直都沒有變"},{"start":3958.066,"end":3974.611,"text":"政策範圍呢這確實是沒變可是很多的操作的細節確實是不斷的在改變包括我剛剛講的大樹的那個案子的時候他們在2020年申請的時候坦白說是沒有環評的那現在可能會有這個需要那在餘電共生當中的時候之前的時候呢"},{"start":3975.031,"end":3994.4,"text":"可能是先發電沒有關係可是現在對於整個漁業的部分也有新的要求所以本席希望就是經濟部就掌握能源的一個政策跟整個農業部需要有很多相關的一個配套我們希望這兩個部會能夠有更有效的一個機制去做一個協調讓整個業者能夠有一個"},{"start":3995.04,"end":4023.397,"text":"一致穩定的一個操作的一個標準而不是會面臨到很多行政上面的一些各種的調整影響到他們後續的狀態那我想說現在我們也很需要整個綠能的一個發展經濟部特別提到說台灣對於綠能是缺的這是很清楚的狀態所以我們也希望說各部會能夠有跨部會的整合能夠讓廠商真正做到對台灣的綠電有貢獻好不好是 這個沒問題我們一直跟經濟部都是一致的經常在聯繫這個沒有問題"},{"start":4024.798,"end":4028.561,"text":"好,謝謝我們現在請林黛化委員做詢答好,有請中央銀行、經濟部顏副總裁、郭部長"},{"start":4051.605,"end":4061.536,"text":"副總裁我想從你的報告當中我來跟您做一下呼應從4月30號的台幣匯率32.07到今天6月29.46不到兩個月台幣匯率共升值了2.557超過了7%也就是除了高科技產業之外"},{"start":4074.309,"end":4102.347,"text":"目前國內哪一個產業的淨利可以超過7%的是沒有的所以你看這個匯率變動除了半導體產業之外全部打趴所以我們央行總裁在幾天前他也表示了下半年經濟放緩關稅不確定性下降而且均可抑制新台幣的升值預期您這邊講到的下半年經濟晃反"},{"start":4103.949,"end":4119.46,"text":"關稅不確定下降講的是經國國的今年經濟表現會出現負面衝擊嗎我們今年的經濟表現會有產業國際競爭力下降嗎因為你管的是匯率但是所產生的經濟面產業面是這兩個現象嗎請回答"},{"start":4125.283,"end":4149.607,"text":"我們在目前我們預期下半年的經濟成長率大概是0.78左右是 那所以是0.78因為它包括了我們預期我們的出口會減緩因為出口已經提前出貨那整個經濟活動其實是雖然是0.78可是去年的積極很高其實我們的整年還有3.05的情況之下我們覺得我們的經濟其實是還OK的啦"},{"start":4153.368,"end":4175.728,"text":"但是還是有負面衝擊產業國際競爭力會下降所以我們才要做因應嘛我想對我想因為那個匯率對不同的行業有不同的衝擊好很好你說有不同的行業會有不同影響您的簡報第八頁你第七頁說好那既然會匯率升值啦那所以呢企業因應的新台幣升值的主要做法您的第八頁講說啊這個當前國際經濟經貿金融具高度不確定性政府"},{"start":4181.293,"end":4193.528,"text":"應可協助較無能力避險的中小企業傳產業降低新台幣匯率波動的影響你這邊所講的中小企業傳產業有包含服務業嗎"},{"start":4196.377,"end":4220.691,"text":"因為服務業他受到匯率的波動相對的比較小一點真的嗎來那本席要跟你講來來部長來您認為因為從經濟部今天您邀請出席郭部長這邊也許你沒管到那麼細但是你們的幕僚作業我也覺得非常的遺憾你輕忽了今天在台幣升值這件事情來講我們的台幣升值下的產業孤鳥是誰"},{"start":4225.074,"end":4251.539,"text":"就是服務業啊就是商圈啊就是我的的餐旅業啊我的旅館業啊這在本席上個月五月多的質詢就很明確的講所以從你今天出席的名單還是輕負這一點好那連央行副總裁從你的口中也沒有重視到你認為服務業是不會受影響的喔不要啊那你要不要修正一下來讓你修正一下因為你的簡報沒寫"},{"start":4253.199,"end":4270.487,"text":"來 那個先讓部長您回答之前來讓我們副總裁補充一下服務業會有哪些衝擊我剛才是說相對的因為出口產業當然我們知道它受到匯率的衝擊我剛才是用傳統產業或中小企業我是說您剛才提到這種內需服務業"},{"start":4273.008,"end":4275.931,"text":"我是用相對好 相對所以相對有多嚴重呢好 那部長這邊我也讓您我今天算是第二次的在我們台幣升值之下我們政府的補貼政策只針對出口產業的相關的財務補貼但是我們沒有擴大內需喔"},{"start":4293.186,"end":4301.495,"text":"所以真的在整個經濟動能的啟動上 擴大內需我們是在這一波當中 公建的啟動是沒有的喔是只是穩住各企業的財務狀況好 那來"},{"start":4308.84,"end":4322.648,"text":"謝謝委員的提示我想國內的消費會因為預期的心理我想消費率會下滑這個內需也會因此而減少這個大概是心理的因素"},{"start":4323.669,"end":4333.973,"text":"那對我們來講的話 我們優先在觀察這個新台幣提升的時候我們當然是先觀察出口的影響 這我認同 部長這一點我是認同經濟部的我認同你經濟部對於出口產業 傳產的部分 製造業的部分你們是非常積極的 這個本席沒有話講可是再一次提醒 今天是我第二次提醒 我們來看喔"},{"start":4347.979,"end":4376.297,"text":"副總裁跟部長你們看這個數據有沒有嚴重2024年出口人次在今年雖然今年還沒有結案然後去年我們的出口人次達1685萬人二十萬人喔就二十四的就這個二十四年來的觀光人次啊2024年的這個出口人出國的來我們本國的觀光人數是多少"},{"start":4376.817,"end":4380.778,"text":"785萬我們出口1685萬人我來2020年來我們去年來我們出國的有1685萬人來到本國觀光的是785萬人多於一半而且其中的赴日本高達600萬這導致台灣2020年的觀光逆差將近220億美元"},{"start":4402.666,"end":4415.633,"text":"6000億台幣這簡單的講就是說我國人到國外旅遊花的錢多於國外的人來到本國旅遊的錢多多少我在國外花的錢多了6000億台幣啊"},{"start":4419.295,"end":4421.477,"text":"副總裁這個叫相對嚴重 輕微嚴重嗎國內旅遊業的經營已經非常辛苦 疫後之後我們慢慢的回升也不過700多萬人次 到去年"},{"start":4434.95,"end":4458.13,"text":"那現在又遇到了這個台幣的升值我們又大量的出國去玩好那本席在5月14號也提出質詢了提到說台幣大幅升值對國內的觀光商圈餐飲服務業產生大幅的衝擊就讓辛苦經營的服務業雪上加霜但是本席並沒有看到各部會提出具體的振興疏困的方案"},{"start":4458.61,"end":4482.044,"text":"所以我對於商發署我直接點名這個要讓部長了解一下也許你們沒有辦法注意到那麼多但是我點名你的商發署你們對於還是一樣嘛提出來你們署長很認真到我高雄交集所有的商圈服務業來座談我看了那一本大概六七頁好多頁的報告結果我叫做了無新意"},{"start":4483.208,"end":4498.089,"text":"你對於這麼慘當中你就像你在補助中小企業一樣就像部長你在支持支持船廠一樣你的硬體建設在您上任這一波我們賴總統是支持過往沒有的中小企業的補助有機械類"},{"start":4499.21,"end":4516.577,"text":"有硬體的所以這個是這一次讓業界可以感受到政府的溫暖可是我們服務業你的商圈整個改造三四十年了那個街景不用有硬體建設的費用嗎這也是公件啊每個商家整個店面的改造我們不用去支持他嗎"},{"start":4517.657,"end":4531.184,"text":"所以這個部長我一定要讓你知道這一點這個多嚴重在這低檔的時候我就積極向中小企業船長支持他但是他沒有錢部長所以這個我一定要跟部長一起努力在主計處今天主計總處有沒有來沒有好那就只好請這個國發會來主委你要跟主計總處"},{"start":4539.11,"end":4566.649,"text":"您要不要針對這個服務業你要跟我們部長一起協力在主計總書針對服務業的部分怎麼來增加公建的比例來跟委員報告公建有有他的特殊規定重大公共建設那就是簡單講就是硬體啦我要的就是硬體就像你補助中小企業產產一樣啊或者我們現在商圈都老化你覺得二三十年的商圈老街"},{"start":4568.27,"end":4576.417,"text":"砍爆都不會救 水電都不會老舊不會有漏水 包括現在的這個氣候變遷 氣溫不會升高裡面的人民的這個觀光客進去我們光是國人的消費會沒有這個舒適感會提升嗎所以大家當然要往國外跑啊"},{"start":4588.685,"end":4605.12,"text":"這個我們一定會支持經濟部的政策啦 如果他們送過來但是經濟部有困難啊 他也部長要去跟主計總署要錢啊要不然他只有在他的部內的預算宜嘛 宜哪一塊部長都心痛啊這個部分是這樣嗎對啊 你哪一塊 這邊就是少哪一塊來補這個商發署的硬體建設的計畫嘛"},{"start":4609.844,"end":4614.925,"text":"所以那你要今天主計總署沒來那所以你要發揮你的跨部會的協調你要不要來針對我的聽法很簡單針對服務業商圈的硬體建設請國發會這個主計總署協同我們的經濟部來會同那個跟主計總署爭取商圈及相關服務業的這個硬體建設要不要"},{"start":4637.429,"end":4640.252,"text":"我們努力看看 實現是什麼時候你什麼時候提出計畫啊我要跟委員報告為什麼我講這個話我是比較負責任的人因為我的管轄範圍沒有主計處主計總處不歸我管轄所以我是來努力一起協調兩方"},{"start":4658.448,"end":4671.643,"text":"是這樣那部長呢你要不要你認同你要不要來替你們下面的你都一直點頭啊我認為你很你很清楚狀況你很清楚啊中小企業你支持專長你支持我們在這個商業發展的部分我們都有積極在規劃"},{"start":4673.144,"end":4675.586,"text":"就是缺硬體建設因為其他的什麼AI啦行銷活動啦你們經費也少的可憐啦商發署我也替他講個話但是現在連硬體建設你不在這時候低檔的時候去支持他欸你看到這個數據啊副總裁部長跟主委那個國發會主委啊你們看到這個數據你不會嚇到嗎我們的出國花的錢"},{"start":4696.583,"end":4711.314,"text":"國人在國外2024年去年在國花 在光光逆差我們花了6千億台幣在國外欸你怎麼不把那6千億一半就好3千億回到國內來你不正心才怪呢"},{"start":4712.114,"end":4727.586,"text":"所以你要用心啊部長您這邊要怎麼做呢可給我一個具體時間你們提出怎麼樣的一個方案來跟如果你努力了主計總署不答應那是主計總署的問題但是你不提出就是你的錯"},{"start":4728.735,"end":4749.739,"text":"部長來打回應一下 你什麼時候提出這樣的一個振興方案修改一下你們國發署現在的針對商圈餐禮業以及觀光業所以今天包括交通部也沒 是今天交通部不是本會啦但是我也會再要求交通部 那至少商發署的部分在這個硬體建設上 你要提出一個具體的方案 一個月可以嗎"},{"start":4751.704,"end":4756.509,"text":"努力爭取我們來努力啦好OK好那我們回歸來看人員好那總裁副總裁你可以請回座那部長這邊還有國發會也請回座我們來看人員中東戰爭的對國進人員的威脅在"},{"start":4770.123,"end":4772.284,"text":"你郭部長這邊你也針對了這個我們我國的原油天然氣會產生20%跟25%的供應風險針對在以以戰爭當中那區域衝突當中呢這個這個郭部長你也講到我們不管怎麼樣我國的油價在民生部分一定會是啞鈴最低價這個本席也肯定"},{"start":4792.29,"end":4819.549,"text":"但是呢國營事業他為了配合中央政策出現了虧損行政院呢向行政院爭取補償不要讓國營事業再支持政策卻長遭惡果這是本席要提點你的長期以來因為配合政策的國營事業也希望你們能夠把配合政策的國營事業補貼虧損的補貼法治化就好像我勞退基金一樣啊只要我的勞退基金的營運虧損了"},{"start":4821.79,"end":4830.335,"text":"我們有法令喔叫做政府負最後的這個補貼的一個責任喔所以部長您對於這個國營事業因為照你的這樣的一個簡報來講你只講到說電價的部分我們成立了這個電價委員會因為人員的互動我們99%我們的人員是進口的煤氣"},{"start":4846.325,"end":4856.468,"text":"還有石油 99%是國外進口所以那種的波動是很大所以國營事業 中油不管進煤 進油 或者進天然氣那它就是會影響到台電因為還是必須它提供中油要提供給台電所以這個虧損 國營事業虧損我不希望變成這種政黨惡鬥的一個工具"},{"start":4874.254,"end":4892.33,"text":"這個所以應該是說我應該是一個補貼對於我在什麼樣的機制顧民生的當時我有一個定價委員會但是當我們的國營事業受到這個政府為了吸收這樣的政府的政策他也會虧損那是不是有一個法制化我覺得我不用你什麼回應承諾但是你要承諾我說好這個是不是願意延逸補貼的一個法制化呢"},{"start":4898.97,"end":4922.298,"text":"謝謝委員的這個指教這個部分我們會向院裡面反映我覺得法治化之後就不會說我補台電一千億就又說我們台電怎麼樣的有很多理由那我覺得法治化哪一個政黨執政哪一個政黨哪一個這個立法院的不管他的一個這個席次的變化我們都還是一樣顧到民生也顧到國營事業好再來"},{"start":4926.379,"end":4936.228,"text":"這個能源政策當中我也要對郭部長我是跟你肯定因為你支持國企國運國管為什麼呢我們來看這則新聞中東戰爭威脅在前幾天的時候有六艘的郵輪在接近荷姆茲海峽改變航線雖然荷姆茲海峽現在暫時已經沒有這個危機但是那時候的六艘郵輪是來自"},{"start":4951.401,"end":4956.223,"text":"挪威中國香港巴拿馬的國家超級有人是空船去要去這些油廠油礦去載油那因為這樣的危險還沒有說戰爭還沒有說封鎖只是傳聞而已喔這個船長就把他就把他載回來所以空船所以國際航運包括飛機航運這個本來就規避氣候戰爭不可抗力的特性條件除船東貨主之外最主要是船長要當下決定決定判斷"},{"start":4980.914,"end":5007.161,"text":"所以在台灣雖然你下了指令要朝向國際國運國管講坦白的本席在意的是我們國家國籍的本國的船長跟船員比例的提高而不是國外的船長或甚至是中國的進入到我們的這個國家的一個的國際船這個我是點名交通部交通部的陽明海運今天交通部沒來所以我就不講話"},{"start":5008.361,"end":5031.099,"text":"光是亞明海運用了多少的中國籍的船員我本席還在了解當中但是我們自己的中油跟日本的合資的公司你是有下指令但是全台灣最了解原料購買的是誰只有中油所以你下了指令之後不好意思中油還是停止在那邊"},{"start":5032.02,"end":5057.202,"text":"好 那這個對於國慶國運國管這件事情我希望這個部長您再一次的督導一下實質的了解謝謝委員 那個這個部分是屬於交通部啦所以那個交通部長已經有指示這個船運公司啊務必這個落實委員所指導的部分這個你們在踢皮球齁因為即使是在交通部但是在哪裡訓練"},{"start":5059.203,"end":5061.565,"text":"還是在中油的接收站因為你的汽油來還是在我們的接收站接收站是誰 沖油我沖油的部分會落實這樣的做法"},{"start":5073.292,"end":5093.715,"text":"希望您這加把勁督導 因為您下了指令之後 中油好像沒什麼動作好 所以這邊我也希望國發會能夠接同基進部交通部針對國內的觀光那個主委 請您再聽一下這個接同基進部交通部一個月內針對國內觀光商圈餐飲提出"},{"start":5094.375,"end":5097.418,"text":"前瞻且務實的振興補助部長你也承諾了那一個月內要提出來那向這個主計總處這邊來處理那請國發委協調主計總處雖然這不是你管啦但是我覺得有一個議題你可以做模擬台幣不同匯率下對我國主要產業科技半導體電子製造船廠"},{"start":5116.853,"end":5131.537,"text":"包括這個農業生長觀光零售等衝擊的影響並預早預作準備第三個也請經濟部交通部因為你們國際船還是有交通部所以經濟部交通部集中有兩週內回覆目前我國主要能源的採用國籍船員跟船隊船隊跟船長的狀態那並提供後續的改善計畫部長可以嗎國發會主委可以嗎"},{"start":5145.979,"end":5174.662,"text":"來主委您上台一下兩個同時回應本席的具體建議在尤其是商發署的部分的工件的這個硬體建設部長這邊要一個月可不可以提要提出前瞻且務實那國發會的部分呢你對跟主計總處要做的事情你要模擬台幣不同匯率下對我國主要產業包括服務業的衝擊欲早做住每一個"},{"start":5175.342,"end":5197.666,"text":"不同匯率下所產生的產業衝擊面你要做什麼方案的因應呢包括這個國籍船隊經濟部交通部跟中油你們對國籍船隊跟船長的狀態才能因應你區域經濟當中大家的一個你進有99%的人員是來自國外來兩位兩位首長回應一下 國安會沒有問題啦有時間的喔我們會來努力 好謝謝"},{"start":5203.544,"end":5204.146,"text":"好謝謝現在休息兩分鐘"},{"start":5272.861,"end":5285.894,"text":"好 现在开会请张家俊委员做寻答谢谢主席我想请郭部长郭部长"},{"start":5296.734,"end":5314.366,"text":"委員長部長長安那我想現在大家都非常關心的除了這個能源之外呢關稅緩增90天的大限即將到期在7月8號就要到期了不曉得目前談判的進展有沒有結果呢"},{"start":5315.94,"end":5322.429,"text":"報告委員現在還在談判進行中可是只有剩下兩個禮拜就要到期了我們目前有沒有一個基本的方向讓這些產業界可以預先開始準備呢"},{"start":5330.521,"end":5339.047,"text":"我們在這個開始的時候就有一些就是他被這個豁免90天啊在這90天裡面我們不斷的在研擬整個談判的這個過程是但是不到兩週就要到期了是"},{"start":5347.293,"end":5367.026,"text":"我們都開始緊張起來了我相信不只立法院緊張甚至所有的產業界所有我們台灣的這些民眾大家都開始這是一個倒數計時所以很想部長可不可以講一些方向讓我們安心一下呢報告委員我們大概盤過大概對台灣比較大的這個衝擊的影響大概就是那個傳產的六個行業"},{"start":5374.49,"end":5383.075,"text":"那針對這些可能衝擊比較大的行業我們事實上經濟部透過四個措施都在努力所以目前部長還沒有辦法告訴我們有任何具體談判的結果當然沒辦法所以這兩週還會後續有談判嗎"},{"start":5392.199,"end":5407.11,"text":"是這樣子大概方向上面大概也可以跟大家報告一下具體當然可能要等院裡面他確定了以後才會跟大家來報告所以已經有具體談判結果但是先抱怨目前沒辦法告訴我們細節現在看起來就是在未來這個紅色供應鏈"},{"start":5413.214,"end":5439.511,"text":"可能是美国要求对红色供应链开始采取这个惩罚或者是压制的这样的一个方向所以这个对台湾来讲其实是在某一些产业是有优势的比如说我们的半导体这个产业资安这个产业还有AI这个产业对我们台湾来讲因为红色供应链的影响而这些订单势必"},{"start":5440.131,"end":5464.08,"text":"要轉向我們所以您覺得這個是我們台灣的機會危機就是轉機嗎另外一個就是比較大的問題可能會產生影響就是因為中國會被賦予高關稅我們在爭取對我們有利的關稅所以在這個情況之下中國他勢必消亡美國的東西沒有辦法去會有一些外力的現象"},{"start":5464.62,"end":5492.96,"text":"會有一些外溢現象我們在防止這樣的一個發生所以為什麼我們這一次針對關稅我們本來編了這個880億後來調合930億這個關鍵是在後來為什麼變成4100億主要就是防止中國把他的產品因為關稅的因素而外溢到台灣來這外溢有兩個第一個可能來台灣洗產地第二個可能走私進到我們台灣的市場"},{"start":5493.82,"end":5504.082,"text":"我們必須要防止這個走勢喔因為這個走勢對我們整個台灣的生活會產生非常大的影響而造成我們西班牙現在的波動這個劇烈波動喔我還是希望部長這邊要做好準備要做產業最堅實的後盾不要讓任何一個產業孤軍奮鬥那目前喔我接下來要問部長就是說中東這個戰火升級雖然最新的消息說已經局部停火"},{"start":5523.987,"end":5547.4,"text":"但是能不能掉以輕心最近外電報導目前伊朗的議會已經通過這個封鎖荷姆茲海峽的相關提案那目前正等他們的最高國家安全委員會要最終拍板那荷姆茲海峽大家可以看到他是全球最關鍵的這個石油航道之一2025年每一季每天"},{"start":5550.862,"end":5572.85,"text":"三日原油通過量高達兩千萬桶佔全球海運石油的四分之一那封鎖一旦成真這將會是繼1973年1979年1991年之後的第四次石油危機部長這些狀況你掌握目前掌握的如何"},{"start":5573.573,"end":5586.939,"text":"是 報告委員我們經濟部是有成立緊急應對小組的我們已經運作了這個三天了是 所以這個緊急應變小組運作這三天有任何的方向嗎有 我們現在發現說跟我們所預測的"},{"start":5590.765,"end":5607.883,"text":"每一天都在變化所以我們會有一些預測What's the case到底是怎麼樣的那看起來現在朝著比較樂觀的方向在進行比較樂觀嗎我們看到的油價看到的布蘭特的油價的報價到今天為止"},{"start":5608.544,"end":5619.89,"text":"已經降了 降了10%我不能理解你的這個樂觀是哪裡來的因為我們是千萬不能跳以輕心耶我們是說 報告委員我們對外的依存是95.77%耶95.77%你跟我說樂觀我們高度依賴中東"},{"start":5631.997,"end":5635.54,"text":"的這個能源包括萬一在這個石油的路線中斷我們的備援機制是什麼你們有相關沙盤推演過嗎怎麼推演我們的天然氣在我們全國電力占比的四成我們的天然氣主要來的國家是卡達"},{"start":5652.734,"end":5653.656,"text":"他也是要經過這個海峽他也要經過這個荷姆茲海峽如果我們油也沒辦法進來天然氣也沒辦法進來的話"},{"start":5663.204,"end":5677.041,"text":"這還可以樂觀嗎報告委員 我可以說嗎好 謝謝我們天然氣進口的國家大概有14個國家其中卡達來的是25%但是我們從澳洲來的有38%所以您覺得從澳洲的38%是在我們台灣四成電力的38%"},{"start":5683.368,"end":5691.995,"text":"四成電力的38%而已喔然後還有油價要高漲喔如果假設它高漲的話假設啦而且我們天然氣的儲配量根據能源署的資料只可以支應7至14天事實上我們現在整體台灣的能源方案就是非常的不確定啊所以我們現在是不是"},{"start":5709.848,"end":5728.674,"text":"我們所有現在用的能源都是非常受國際影響的為什麼呢當初第一次石油危機之後我們台灣就決定蓋核一你要想喔 烏克蘭目前打仗到現在它所有的發電廠都被攻擊只有核能廠沒有被攻擊那為什麼在這關鍵的時刻我們沒有思考重啟核能呢是 這個謝謝委員"},{"start":5737.797,"end":5749.572,"text":"因為我們大部分的石化的能源都是進口所以我們才會再生能源才是我們最重要的是 但是你現在綠能在我們總發電量的幾%呢"},{"start":5753.857,"end":5758.401,"text":"我們現在在告訴你說緊急應變的情況之下你綠能第一不能支應你如果被封鎖了你油你天然氣沒有辦法支應的時候你難道不用為這些產業不用為百姓來想一個備案嗎我們當然是有備案如果油輪被迫改道或延誤"},{"start":5778.2,"end":5795.185,"text":"化工電子原料的供應鏈全部都要受創甚至其他產業整個出口的命脈都會受影響所以我們務必要做最壞的打算最充分的準備但是在這個書面報告當中這書面報告當中完全沒有盤點完全沒有盤點說產業鏈的環節哪裡最脆弱要怎麼樣子的來協助他們"},{"start":5807.064,"end":5828.653,"text":"從頭到尾 這個專案報告裡面都沒有告訴我們 這是本席所擔心的如果產生石油危機 哪些產業會首當其衝呢塑化產業 化工產業 包括我們農業都會受創為什麼 因為農藥都沒辦法做了我們的農藥 我們的肥料 包括物流業"},{"start":5829.833,"end":5842.922,"text":"等等幾乎我們穿的衣服用的牙刷文具所有食衣住行都跟石化產業相關這樣子牽連甚廣的這個產業衝擊請部長務必要有所準備來回應當危機來臨時呢我們的企業怎麼辦我們的民生怎麼辦我們的產線怎麼辦因為依照現在台灣的這個局勢是非常有必要的部長我不曉得您有沒有看這個美國"},{"start":5859.594,"end":5874.524,"text":"Diplomat就是外交家這個雜誌喔他在五月出了一篇專文他的標題就寫台灣為自己製造的致命弱點淘汰核能他就說在最容易發生衝突的情勢下台灣選擇放棄最穩定最難被戰爭摧毀的核能轉而依賴最容易被封鎖的天然氣跟這個"},{"start":5888.593,"end":5896.419,"text":"天然氣那這樣子的能源結構等於在國安防線上就挖了一個坑欸可以很容易的癱瘓我們的經濟命脈部長怎麼看我們會參考委員提供的這個資訊"},{"start":5902.662,"end":5908.083,"text":"那所以呢所以本席在這裡繼續在呼應啦就是說不管是部長包括國發會喔國發會主委可以不要動沒關係就是說應該在國安能源的思維下要審慎面對這個核能議題了一定不是說我們不是說叫你馬上重啟"},{"start":5922.267,"end":5941.775,"text":"但是立法院已經把法修好了那你們有沒有開始準備了在全球這個風險升高的此刻已經給了政府一條新的路你不能把唯一的一條最穩定的能源路徑直接封死是不是可以部長開始趕快研議呢"},{"start":5942.655,"end":5960,"text":"我們對這個核能來講我們還是有一個三個原則嘛兩個必須嘛所以我們現在都在進行這兩個必須第一個就是核安會他必須要這個趕快的提出這個定定這個執法嘛"},{"start":5960.82,"end":5968.226,"text":"然後這個台電要依法來進行安全評估嘛這個其實呢但是這三個原則已經講了幾個月了已經講了幾個月了效率在哪裡我們現在是每天都有非常有可能會有危機出現你已經講了幾個月這三個原則那有任何的進展嗎好像也沒有看到進展所以我們希望說經濟部把效率拿出來然後把這件事情"},{"start":5988.722,"end":6016.937,"text":"當然我們希望它都不要發生我們希望這些危機都不要發生但是我們不能漠視說它就保持說應該是不會發生我們要審慎以待我們希望說我們所有的政府官員一定要走出這個舒適區給國家留一些更多的選項而不是說一再的告訴我們說我們還有什麼什麼要想真的危機來的時候想這些都來不及了好不好 部長"},{"start":6017.961,"end":6020.826,"text":"是 安全是我們最重視的好 謝謝我們現在請張祺凱委員做詢答"},{"start":6047.393,"end":6072.498,"text":"請郭部長郭部長博定你都說你很注重安全我們繼續來搶救人命就是高雄大樹區的51公頃的山坡地山被鏟平了樹被砍掉了"},{"start":6073.68,"end":6099.002,"text":"我看你們昨天發了一個重要的新聞說這個案子啊你們已經依法廢止了光電許可事實上我去查你們廢止的應該是一小部分施工的許可吧你們廢止的是哪一部分如果照現在你們這樣的一個處分方式"},{"start":6100.425,"end":6114.706,"text":"絕大部分的光電板是不是還是會留在那邊山還是沒辦法恢復原狀還是存在它的危險性呢你們昨天發了新聞說你們廢止了光電許可是哪一部分"},{"start":6116.325,"end":6145.118,"text":"我請我們副署長跟你報告各位報告我們廢紙的部分是他部分的施工許可對嘛那紙廢紙的一小部分這個現在最嚴重的是什麼山已經被鏟平了然後這個光電板我去查這個光電板一共有一期跟二期20萬片的光電板潑在被鏟平的這個山上要20萬片喔"},{"start":6146.325,"end":6173.578,"text":"第二個它的發電量第一期發電量30兆瓦第二期15兆瓦一共加起來45兆瓦現在民眾要的真相是什麼危險性存在啊結果你們做了一個動作事實上的真相是高雄市政府只做了第二期的水土計畫期可的廢止只做了這個動作而已"},{"start":6175.458,"end":6203.439,"text":"那你們啊 只做了一小部分的施工許可那就會造成剛剛講的你大部分的光電板還是留在那裡嘛第二個 你的發電大部分還是存在嘛更嚴重的 山還是被鏟平了 沒有恢復原狀 對不對危機還是在啊我們不是在搶救人命嗎 保安局你說要注意安全嗎現在是附近的居住的民眾都已經來陳前開了記者會了說不要重演小林村 媚村"},{"start":6204.806,"end":6212.684,"text":"這樣一個悲劇你們怎麼會只有做這個啊你們在打假球嗎這樣怎麼對得起人民啊那危機來了怎麼辦發生了悲劇怎麼辦"},{"start":6216.66,"end":6237.134,"text":"跟委員報告 其他的部分因為我們本來就在裁罰我們現在密切的在跟市政府監督他基本上我們會用最嚴格的標準來看這個事情他現在也陸陸續續在改善當中依其水保部分 市政府也正在處理當中 李政補充"},{"start":6238.496,"end":6247.583,"text":"真相就是山已經被產平了然後剛講的20萬片的光電板大部分還是存在嘛然後繼續要發電嘛 是不是"},{"start":6252.588,"end":6278.623,"text":"那危機還是在 柏定你是要解決不是 報告委員你們大動作發的這個新聞我們這個經濟部啊這個是依法來做事情那如果對方在這個寄存的這個這個案場裡面啊它是依法設置的那麼在不違反這個所謂的山坡山坡地的這個保育水土保持的這一些規範的話"},{"start":6280.711,"end":6306.116,"text":"我相信我們也沒有法條法規來撤銷或者是要他還原來的這個部分因為水土保守法會證明他對這個所謂的人身安全是沒有這個危害危機就產生了前陣子一場暴雨滾滾的泥流結果就沖下來所以民眾才非常緊急的"},{"start":6307.701,"end":6330.334,"text":"陳情開了記者會還有立委已經到現場去探勘嘛危機是現在進行式而且現在紅台帝又極端氣候我一直在提醒你它是現在進行式你們說要趕快處理結果現在發現你們是打假球啊你要徹底去解決問題委員我們沒有打假球你講這樣的這個說法是不是有一點過分來部長我們來看我們用實際的狀況來看你看左邊這個是開發前"},{"start":6335.319,"end":6349.086,"text":"一片利益釀然的這個土地是一個山坡 上面是樹利益釀然的 右邊現在被鏟平了水土保持又沒做好多觸目驚心的這個畫面你都說合法 來大家知道嗎"},{"start":6353.902,"end":6369.853,"text":"依照建築技術規則建築的這個規定在第262條山坡地有下列各種情形之一者不得開發但是它的坡度是陡峭的超過30%這個坡度超過30%就不能開發我去查 你看"},{"start":6374.639,"end":6388.473,"text":"我們坡度啊在三級以下的就是30%三級以下的大概只有47.16有四級坡以上的還有四級坡的這個有危險的超過一半耶"},{"start":6390.183,"end":6415.683,"text":"這多危險的事情啊這不是一個違法的一個操作嗎然後現在危機已經在產生中啊你發現危險就趕緊解決問題啊所以我們已經停止他再開發了嘛然後我們再來衡量嘛哪一些東西會違反這個水保法嘛哪一些會危害到這些安全我們會要求他恢復嘛這個事情委員不能這樣說就是說我們都沒在處理事情"},{"start":6418.75,"end":6439.39,"text":"處理不到十分之一啦你的籌設許可也沒有匯值 對不對現在更嚴重的喔 我跟他講真相是什麼真相是什麼來我們看看那個圖第一期已經施工完成了他現在已經是在試營運的狀況欸你台電之前都已經允許他可以發電了欸"},{"start":6443.749,"end":6446.891,"text":"那你今天做了這個許可你認為說這個發電是不應該的就對了微波怎麼可以發電呢而且存在危險性啊"},{"start":6454.88,"end":6461.583,"text":"如果他沒有違反山坡保育法你不可以用這樣來扣這個問題為什麼沒有違法呢現在是高雄市政府都已經進行開法了我們也有開法他我們也有開法他我們必須要依法依規來處理事情嘛"},{"start":6482.893,"end":6504.901,"text":"阿你現在叫我們怎麼樣 叫我們說這個馬上斷掉他嗎是不是 我們現在也斷了他的這個繼續的做第一個 他越線去開發嘛 超過那個界線去開發嘛所以我們沒有處罰他嘛 我們不是沒有處罰他我們也處罰他了 也下了令了"},{"start":6505.501,"end":6530.801,"text":"那你在講說我們這個都沒有在處理這樣子對我們的公務同事非常不...部長你這個打假球我剛剛跟你講你處理這個問題你講這個打假球這個是非常嚴重的指控啦那威脅就是一直存在你不要解決人民的這個擔心我們當然要解決安全的問題啊但是解決事情也有一個解決方案你的解決方案就是第一期的光電板全部都在那裡還是存在的"},{"start":6533.871,"end":6554.068,"text":"第二次你只做了一小部分的施工許可的費值你做不到十分之一耶民眾現在清楚看到第一個危機存在你的一小部分可能是整個事情的一大部分我們已經禁止他三分之一不准再繼續做下去了"},{"start":6555.219,"end":6558.66,"text":"有三分之一嗎 這個有餘地我沒有講說三分之二要留著那個是你在套這件事情喔報告委員 請你在這個地方質詢的時候不要用話術"},{"start":6579.786,"end":6605.211,"text":"不是話術 你說他有話術 你剛才不是清楚有20萬片的光電板 太陽能光電板保證說三分之二留著嗎他現在設置的只有七成而已哪來的三分之二啊對啊 你剛才不是說三分之一七成跟三分之二那是你講的喔七成跟三分之二差多少不是你講的七成他是第一階段 你講的三十這個兆瓦的七成喔"},{"start":6606.84,"end":6635.8,"text":"整個的 我們允許他的大概只有一半而已人命關天 危機是現在起第一個 我們現在清楚跟民眾講依照經濟部跟高雄市政府打假球目前清清楚楚這是第一期幾乎是沒有處理的第一期違法事實非常的明確第一個 越縣區開發違反水土保持法 他們都開罰了可是他們現在經過這樣之後還把它光電板還留在那邊山也沒有要恢復"},{"start":6637.236,"end":6656.234,"text":"誰是保持也沒辦法做好危機還是存在的這個就是現在的真相這是最嚴重的問題所以我今天為什麼要問這個問題你要繼續趕快怎麼確保讓民眾我們在努力喔我們在努力你一天裡面要求我全部把它恢復你認為可能嗎所有的事情總是循序漸進的嘛"},{"start":6657.495,"end":6679.057,"text":"是不是 你怎麼可以講說可能要一百天的這個已經它造成今天的現象兩年了你叫我一天之內把它恢復我沒有辦法變這個魔法你處理危機 危機就隨時會來我們是做不到的啦我再講一個更重要的內幕我們已經禁止它繼續再做下去了我們也要馬上的"},{"start":6680.157,"end":6704.286,"text":"在安全有問題的部分趕快來這個緊急的來做一些這個調適不是這樣你這邊在這邊講說我們什麼打假球打假球這個字是非常嚴重的不要講話術啦就是危機確實存在嘛對不對你要幫人民解決問題我們是在幫人民解決問題這是第一個好我要講今天一個重要的內幕來"},{"start":6706.406,"end":6734.489,"text":"陳其邁都急著要切割了 部長還不曉得要切割你還一直在背書這個危機這個開發的業者叫做聰明的家 陶傑跟林瑞峰這個大家到監察院上面 公報上面查都查得到這個把山鏟平 把樹砍掉的這個業者 聰明的家老闆林瑞峰在110年的11月"},{"start":6735.959,"end":6761.344,"text":"捐了政治獻金給陳其邁 十萬塊捐給蔡奇商兩萬 何欣淳 八萬塊我下面要放大給大家看 陳其邁111年高雄市長選舉的時候林瑞豐 聰明的家 把三產坪的業者捐了十萬塊隔了一個月 他就拿到了開發許可"},{"start":6763.977,"end":6784.652,"text":"這個如果照柯文哲或其他案子這就是收賄啊 貪污收賄罪啊陳其邁很聰明的他馬上就急著趕快要切割了所以他趕快想了一部分的這個處分還有一些許可他要停可是部長你現在還不想要切割"},{"start":6786.297,"end":6807.254,"text":"危機垂死存在可能因為土石流來居民講的是什麼小林村的妹村可能重演欸人命關掉而且現在進行是你不去處理人家都知道急著要切割了你到現在今天做了一個小部分的廢止危機之存在嘛我具體做兩個要求啦"},{"start":6809.997,"end":6827.911,"text":"你現在不是只有廢止那小部分你現在應該廢止的是什麼整個開發案第一期跟第二期的綽色洗殼而且要求廠商把這個山坡地要恢復到原狀這個危機才會化除啊民眾是不是要等這個民眾來陳情就是要求這個嘛"},{"start":6832.708,"end":6856.598,"text":"因為它有危機嘛100應該這樣做嘛結果你一小部分的施工許可你要的是第一期跟第二期的籌算許可整個拿掉包括你說的會存在那些光電板在第一期的當然要拆掉啊恢復原狀啊山還要山坡地要恢復啊這是第一個危機才能夠化解要不然的話這個危機就存在第二個"},{"start":6857.728,"end":6884.6,"text":"要針對山坡地你若去做光電或者再生能源開發案你現在要規範這個廠商你若被你撤銷以後他要怎麼去恢復原狀保障人民安全這才是你現在做的吧經濟部長我們會依法行事啦第一個我們經濟部是政府的一環我們所有的工作都必須要在依法的這個範圍裡面去做事情"},{"start":6885.982,"end":6909.415,"text":"剛才委員所指正的這個部分有一部分已經超過這個時效所以我們要來考慮怎麼樣子才能夠找到一個合法的這個框架之間來進行超過時效 危機存在嘛 對不對大家都有共識嘛 民眾來陳情嘛這已經媒體跟網路上已經炸開了"},{"start":6910.626,"end":6917.795,"text":"我們要幫人民解決問題不要讓悲劇產生幫人民解決問題是我們的責任幫人民解決問題是我們的責任這一點你放心我們不會我們存在的價值就是幫人民解決問題事實上不只是我的要求"},{"start":6929.242,"end":6953.413,"text":"這應該是絕大部分的民眾的要求這個也是附近的居民明確的這個要求避免小林村、媚村的事件重演請盡快完成撤銷這個案子的第一期、第二期的綽設許可第二個這個三光電板不只要撤掉要趕快恢復原狀樹該種的要種上去水土保持要做好這樣才能夠避免悲劇產生"},{"start":6960.428,"end":6969.057,"text":"主席做一下宣告因為劉主委身體不適所以國發會由高仙貴副主委代表列席"},{"start":6984.842,"end":6986.503,"text":"現在請陳廷飛委員做詢答麻煩請經濟部長 郭部長委員好"},{"start":7008.313,"end":7035.661,"text":"部長好我想這段時間我們經濟部面臨很多的挑戰尤其最近又因為以疫衝突造成了我們整個能源的危機是不是會產生所以大家都很擔心如果荷姆茲海峽被封鎖了那麼我們中東"},{"start":7037.182,"end":7055.765,"text":"原油要进到我们每一个国家不是只有台湾每一个国家其实都会受到影响总共全球有20%的原油30%的天然气都要经过荷姆兹海峡"},{"start":7056.758,"end":7085.967,"text":"那麼我們台灣更不用說我們其實有很大的比例甚至還不只如此我們的整個仰賴進口能源的產業也可能會受影響部長我們有做了盤整嗎萬一萬一如果依照我們現在原油每桶是80美元"},{"start":7087.318,"end":7089.914,"text":"那如果漲到100美元"},{"start":7091.978,"end":7115.926,"text":"漲到120美元漲到140美元我們每一個階段我們要怎麼應對是 報告委員這個自從這個赫姆斯海峽有狀況以後經濟部有成了一個緊急對應小組那麼這裡面包括我們的國營事業包括我們能源署包括我們的這個"},{"start":7117.672,"end":7138.368,"text":"中油台電這些公司我們每一天在晚上所有的語情收受以後進入討論由我們賴建信次長來主持到現在我們已經進行了三天的模擬就剛才委員所指教的當布蘭特原油的價格來到80塊100塊130塊我們大概預估是到130塊"},{"start":7143.832,"end":7173.512,"text":"那这个刚好这三天里面产生了一个非常大的变化我们在今天早上看到的布兰特原油的价格已经成这个最高的时候77.01块钱6月20号的收盘价变成今天早上是67.14这样的一个价格那么在我们也观察到未来会怎么样子那这个8月份交割的西德州中值原油每桶只有64.37元这个是一个trend"},{"start":7174.092,"end":7196.563,"text":"所以基於這樣的情況之後我們當然還是在觀察就是每天變化太大所以我們現在已經是有應變小組成立了每天晚上會收集所有的語情然後應變隔天可能會面臨的狀況還有我們會觀察我們有多少的存量"},{"start":7197.663,"end":7213.818,"text":"有哪一些量是在船上的現在正在運輸的這個當中我們基於這樣的情況來衡量我們可能會碰到的一些變異的情況然後第二個呢我想我們中油跟中油啊"},{"start":7214.218,"end":7227.397,"text":"都有跟我們比較友好的購買的對象譬如說澳洲也好美國也好我們也說萬一有狀況的時候我們可能會先要求他先把現貨撥一點給我們我們都有模擬"},{"start":7230.561,"end":7258.15,"text":"有模擬有沒有對接了都有對接了模擬跟對接是不一樣喔所以我們已經有跟這些可能可以提早把這些存量給我們的有做了第一時間的對接了是不是所以我們也把我們所有在船上的整個目前在原油可以預期我們的存量都已經評估過了我問一下部長"},{"start":7260.511,"end":7289.113,"text":"那麼依照現在不論是我們自己國內的存量或是在海上的存量還在海當中要進到我們台灣國內的這些我們預估我們有多少的一個這個所謂可控期我們到目前的狀況就是說到我們最新的狀況都還在可控制的這個情況之內都還在可控制的情況之內我們目前大概"},{"start":7290.646,"end":7316.688,"text":"根據國內的法規我們油存量大概會按照法規的量在保持油跟氣都是一樣那你預估依照我們現在所有周邊的我不讓你說多少存量因為這會牽扯到我們國家能源的機密所以說我們預期我們這個部分因為我們要讓我們的國民有信心"},{"start":7317.589,"end":7346.801,"text":"就這些可控大家放心我們可以控制到哪一個時間如果真正的發生到我們120美元或是130美元140美元的部分我們還有我們自己可以來協助做調整的一個機制謝謝委員我想這個包括到這些這個穩定民生物價任性的問題我們都有考慮進去是那多久"},{"start":7347.915,"end":7377.034,"text":"沒有問題你在這個過程當中因為我們也知道我們比預計的國安的這個量還要多就是說我們比目前我們每一次一定要要求一些國安存量來調解整個國家所面臨的緊急狀況我們比目前我們法規當中所要求的存量還要多是不是這樣"},{"start":7378.495,"end":7396.583,"text":"所以这很重要因为我们要让民众有信心否则现在大家看到媒体在报以一的冲突那当然我们也看到美国川普总统也在处理以一的冲突事件也在稳定那我们希望赶快"},{"start":7397.643,"end":7418.008,"text":"去做好調停不要把它變成是全球的問題因為畢竟這個荷姆茲海峽它有一個非常關鍵的就是剛好所有的原油都要幾乎都要經過這樣的一個海峽的管控所以封鎖之後確實有它的能源危機"},{"start":7419.028,"end":7439.905,"text":"所以這部分我相信我們兩邊進行當然這個調節性的部分我們一定要進到能源的調節而且讓民眾沒有擔憂那第二個部分就是說我最近其實我們在做地方的中小企業跟企業的一個訪問的時候就發現一個問題就是因為我們的幣值的問題"},{"start":7447.591,"end":7467.251,"text":"我們新台幣持續在升值 大家會擔心因為不敢接訂單不敢接訂單部長因為你從企業界過來的 你很清楚因為接一張訂單有可能也因為整個匯率的問題而造成"},{"start":7469.248,"end":7484.143,"text":"給接一張給了一張所以現在大家不敢接在還沒有整個匯率穩定的狀態之下是不敢接的那麼部長我們怎麼去處理這些所謂的信心指數的問題是謝謝委員的質詢"},{"start":7488.167,"end":7507.302,"text":"我想我們我們台灣的企業確實中小企業對這個所謂的匯率的這個準備跟避險是比較弱那大的企業比較我們不擔心我們都跟他們溝通過了所以他們都有他們的避險機制那對這個小企業"},{"start":7509.784,"end":7533.639,"text":"跟微型企業我覺得這個是我們馬上看到的因為過去台灣的企業家我們有兩個做法第一個做法就是說在短期裡面我們提供低利率貸款來降低它的營運成本減少它的資金的壓力第二個長期裡面我們協助它低碳化跟智慧化的轉型那麼進行深度節能跟臺灣節能設備部長"},{"start":7536.241,"end":7541.409,"text":"這是回去啊 我現在說的是根本就不敢去接訂單啊他不敢去接訂單耶 給他接一張 給他撩一張耶他現在都沒訂單要不然有可能接了一張訂單之後因為匯率的調整"},{"start":7553.618,"end":7568.011,"text":"我們現在大概我剛才就講他可能目前沒有辦法穩定的接訂單那我們在盤出來大概有幾個產業可能會有這種現象那我們就針對這些現象來講我們來"},{"start":7573.014,"end":7595.26,"text":"協助他怎麼學習這個避險那譬如說我們強調他的這個庫存的管理啊提高財務運用的效率那來降低他的資金成本那短期沒有辦法接單並不代表他沒有辦法接單因為這個是他不敢接單不是不能接單是不敢接單是不敢接單因為是讓我們新台幣升值1%他們的成本的定義要料1.5%喔"},{"start":7602.102,"end":7621.218,"text":"不是 報告委員我們現在是這樣子就是說它銷美國我們大家看過去觀察我們台灣的產業銷美國大概只有23%所以我們還有77%的這個市場是在美國以外的那因為這個匯率的問題並不是只有考慮到美國所以我們在整體怎麼樣子調節這個市場裡面所以你要怎麼幫它去轉"},{"start":7626.242,"end":7651.303,"text":"以大大小我們是以大大小因為這個轉移市場還是美金報價所以對產商來講是一樣轉移市場是一樣的所以最重要的是增加它的附加價值跟降低它的操作成本這個我們都現在都一直在進行如何增加它的這個競爭力顧長我為什麼會今天我今天會提這個問題"},{"start":7653.004,"end":7662.187,"text":"就是我們當跟中小企業傳統產業在座談的時候其實目前才是他們最大的壓力"},{"start":7663.203,"end":7681.454,"text":"因為不敢接訂單你即使不敢接訂單之後你後續你再幫他轉型再幫他做所謂的一個產值的增加也沒有用啊因為沒有訂單那接了訂單之後所擔心的就是因為你整個匯率我們去簽訂單的時候是依照這個價格"},{"start":7684.055,"end":7707.487,"text":"匯率的調整 不能說我要依照匯率調整喔 沒有對不對 這個大家都清楚 那我們其實台灣就是它中小企業跟傳統生涯就是我們台灣經營開發 如果沒有這中小企業傳統生涯我們今年不能走到 今年這樣的一個經濟發展所以我們必須去看到他們現在所面臨的狀況"},{"start":7709.414,"end":7723.853,"text":"所以部長我今天會提出來是你們提的當然是協助他們去做轉型去做後續的可能殘職的增加可是你要看他們現在是連接單都不敢接單"},{"start":7724.454,"end":7741.64,"text":"我想這個是這樣子就是說他不敢接單我們會分析他什麼原因不敢接單對於我們來講我們是增強他的競爭力所以我們會降低他的成本從各個方面來幫助他降低成本增加他的經營的效益這樣子才讓他有這個競爭力"},{"start":7744.821,"end":7764.532,"text":"不管這個關稅啊或者是這個匯率的問題對他來講小公司最重要是他在供應鏈裡面他必須要進到這個供應鏈裡面所以我們會讓中型的企業我們要整合我們現在整合譬如說買材料啦一樣的"},{"start":7767.313,"end":7773.918,"text":"叫我們的大企業要把我們的中小企業賣 把我們的傳統企業賣我們不一定要消去國外 把這些頂端變成我們國內來吸收 我知道啦我現在經濟部有20個法人機構啦 都在進行AI的教學我們把這些小微企業整合起來 統購 譬如100斤收賣的材料"},{"start":7791.109,"end":7815.036,"text":"那部長請問這些法人企業他的這些什麼時候可以跟我們說他到底做到哪裡了我們現在都有都在進行我們現在產發署技術師中小企業署我們三個署都每天在整合我知道啊你們很認真在做啊可是為什麼我們的中小企業跟傳統產業感受不到這才是問題啊"},{"start":7820.237,"end":7839.499,"text":"有有有所以其實部長你講的那一個才是重點喔我們台南都有在進行沒有有有我必須說部長我要感謝你把我們的台灣給我們台南給北京府給這我要跟你感謝你把它創了一個品牌真的是有在做可是"},{"start":7840.14,"end":7849.804,"text":"如果我們今天可以像部長所講的,當我們大型企業、中型企業可以跟我們的傳統產業,我們的較輕盈的企業,我們這裡的材料向我們致備我覺得你整合,我覺得這個更重要,所以這個部分我覺得這個效應應該把它帶出來"},{"start":7860.188,"end":7887.071,"text":"統購啦學術上叫統購一般的民間講法叫團購我們是發揮小型微型企業的材料團購由經濟部來協助他們所以部長你講這個我非常非常有亮點但是我們要怎麼做而且要多久因為這個東西是現階段真的可以幫助他們如果不敢接訂單的轉到我們自己本身所以我也相信我們現在因為"},{"start":7889.072,"end":7911.319,"text":"這個部長是從企業過來的所以你有很多不一樣的不會是很苛究的這個公務想法所以你講的這個部分我相信而且我覺得做得到把這個大企業他可以面對因為他可以把這所謂的會域然後做一個調整可是中小企業跟傳統產業在吸收的部分沒有那麼強"},{"start":7912.219,"end":7919.543,"text":"所以我們要怎麼處理就是透過這些所以拜託我們是不是可以一兩個月把這個計畫把這個問題沒有時間沒有壓力啊好不好一個月好不好我們可以馬上把這個計畫這個送給您做好"},{"start":7928.567,"end":7946.655,"text":"好 我很期待 我覺得這樣子才可以給中小企業說你不用去問嘛 你不要去接電話 沒關係我們接過來的電話要不然他們可能也都跟外國去採購那我們就跟我們自己國內的中小企業跟傳統產業採購 拜託我覺得這給我們一個很大的強心針再拜託部長 拜託我們相關的單位"},{"start":7955.439,"end":7970.795,"text":"我們現在請賴瑞榮委員做詢答好 謝謝主席請郭部長跟中央銀行嚴副總裁郭部長嚴副總裁"},{"start":7975.607,"end":7994.564,"text":"先請教一下郭部長這個其實現在包括關稅包括匯率包括中東的這些戰爭狀況其實讓大家感覺有相當多的一些變數對於整個下半年的一些景氣甚至於整個經濟成長率的部分那部長怎麼看"},{"start":7998.092,"end":8019.772,"text":"就這個部分來講下半年因為我們還是要等到7月9號美國的關稅大勢已定以後目前的方向應該是往好的方向因為報告委員這個關稅的部分不是美國對所有的國家都是一致的應該是我們認為"},{"start":8021.895,"end":8035.895,"text":"我講的是對台灣的部分啦就是當然因為跟台灣談跟世界各國談的不一樣的狀況阿因為我們沒跟世界各國競爭嘛那我講的是整體的趨勢對台灣的經濟跟緊急狀況應該是從我的方向在走以目前我們所收集的資訊來看"},{"start":8037.617,"end":8050.727,"text":"因為這個都還沒有到底定的部分但我們期望他是朝好的方向在發展看起來好像也有這樣的一個氛圍因為台灣過去被美國所關注的這幾個問題我們都在解決"},{"start":8054.17,"end":8077.668,"text":"我們要解決包括這個美國可能關注來習產地可能這個中國會有一些外溢到台灣來然後這個變業安全等等這些問題事實上我們都非常的努力也提供給行政院這個談判小組他們去做參考所以我們相信他基於這個綜合的這些資訊他們去談應該會比較有把握"},{"start":8080.39,"end":8099.891,"text":"部長那下半年的景氣狀況跟經濟成長率咧?整個全年度咧?我們現在在看啦就是經濟成長率應該是還是會在落在就是舊智庫上面的數據來顯示啦齁大概會在3還是在3可以保3啦齁可以保3那經濟成長率下半那個景氣的部分呢下半年"},{"start":8100.672,"end":8129.642,"text":"景氣的部分現在看起來半島嶺的景氣在這個先進製程的部分應該是還在如預期2奈米的部分3奈米應該5奈米以下都還不錯那現在我們比較大概大家在觀察也就是說這些傳統這個製程的部分Legacy的部分因為中國開出非常多的這樣的一個廠出來不過"},{"start":8131.161,"end":8152.837,"text":"未來在所謂飛鴻供應鏈的這個要求之下台灣的廠商反而會有因為飛鴻供應鏈所以部長對下半年台灣的景氣是比較樂觀的甚至樂觀的我們認為我們應該是有這樣的機會啦現在看看各個廠商他自己本身接單的能耐跟他的技術的層次"},{"start":8154.318,"end":8165.57,"text":"我順便問一下副總裁好嗎副總裁一樣的問題這個關稅匯率中東戰爭特別是匯率跟這個也有相關的怎麼看待未來這個下半年的經濟狀況"},{"start":8167.145,"end":8185.847,"text":"因為我們在判斷下半年的時候我們是根據目前的資料去判斷所以我們最近的理事會已經修正了我們對下半年的一個景氣的看法譬如說我們上半年整個台灣的經濟成長率是5.49%左右下半年我們預期大概是0.78%"},{"start":8187.108,"end":8216.024,"text":"不過我剛才也提到雖然這個是雖然是下降感覺上下降很多可是我們是在去年同時間4%左右的下半年的經濟成長基礎上面去看說它的成長率只是降緩了一點所以我們整體來講我們預期今年還是3.05%左右的經濟成長所以今年還是可以保三的狀況是沒有問題的我們期望如此那景氣的部分呢剛剛部長是比較部長先回座啦先休息"},{"start":8216.826,"end":8232.871,"text":"部長是稍微比較樂觀的看待 審慎樂觀看待那專銀行這邊呢 副總裁這邊呢因為我們也看到就是說台灣的上半年的出口表現很好是因為他提前出貨的問題那下半年我們預期我們的出口成長會稍微減緩的因為"},{"start":8233.931,"end":8248.912,"text":"你的量總是已經超過你外面的需要那這一塊可能也會影響到我們的民間投資的部分那至於我們預期我們的民間消費其實還是維持一個蠻穩健的溫和成長的情況"},{"start":8249.978,"end":8274.191,"text":"所以溫和成長所以看來中央銀行應該也是採取比較穩健審慎樂觀的態度好那其實接下來很重要的一個部分包括國外也在那個就是其實我們經濟成長率未來的穩定物價甚至擴大內需這個都相當重要那就順著問副總裁比較少機會問到你那接下來其實政院提出來這個特別條例的部分其實對於"},{"start":8275.231,"end":8303.53,"text":"包括我們的產業的支持甚至台電的挹注的部分的話這個其實都相當重要那我想問一下副總裁如果這個沒有的道理我問一下副總裁好了沒關係我先問副總裁好了這個如果沒有得到支持的話對台灣的後續上面會不會產生什麼重大影響因為央行關鍵是整體的物價情況那台電的撥補其實是不是影響到什麼樣程度的物價我覺得還是要看他有沒有調整電價的問題"},{"start":8305.708,"end":8321.838,"text":"好那我們就回到部長好不好來請部長部長這個部分如果沒有得到立法院的支持的話那對我們下半年的狀況會不會產生重大影響我們的電價是4月到9月啦"},{"start":8322.884,"end":8346.736,"text":"所以如果這個價格因為我們的這個成本沒有得到這個撥補的時候那勢必反映的時機可能就在9月底的這個電價審查委員會他們所做的決定部長你意思是說如果沒有得到支持的話沒有得到支持的話就有可能在電價上面他就會反映出這個成本是嗎"},{"start":8347.096,"end":8368.855,"text":"是 那這個委員他們大概就是沒有這個支持說不調價的這樣原來的理由是蔣議員有三回席我也提過就是說我希望的是先不要漲那讓政府來支持 這是一個多贏的方案政府的支持讓穩定住物價 穩定住電價那對於產業也是好 對民生都是好"},{"start":8369.395,"end":8386.762,"text":"這個是一個多盈的方案政府也有多盈餘嘛因為經濟好多盈這是最好的方案那如果你不採用這個方案下去的話有可能導致台電的壓力必須要漲電價這個可能產生對民生對物價對產業都產生衝擊是 報告委員我想我們多次的報告裡面就是說"},{"start":8388.062,"end":8403.158,"text":"台電因為現在借錢借的非常的多那麼造成他的這個利息的負擔非常的高而且現在他已經借到一個高度了他在借錢的話那麼變成是他的利息的這個利率會比較高"},{"start":8404.119,"end":8420.784,"text":"那麼今天如果能夠獲得大院的這個支持那麼統一行政院撥補的這一千億那麼各位大院的這個委員都能夠來支持這樣的一個方案的話我相信對我們電價不調整那這些委員他們可能都比較能夠接受"},{"start":8421.624,"end":8440.813,"text":"那我們的電價只要不調整下半年都不調整一直到明年的三月這段時間都不調整的話我們相信對國內的物價指數的平穩是有非常高的幫助啦為什麼因為這個整個的電價的部分衝擊的我們現在雖然這個電價這個具有一點競爭力但是已經來到臨界點"},{"start":8446.596,"end":8464.765,"text":"那台灣是一個出口的國家我們生產的很多東西都要出口如果對這個產業他沒有辦法他必須要付更高的這個價格的時候對他的出口競爭力其實是減弱的二來又剛才大家有在討論這個說匯率的問題雙重之下他可能就"},{"start":8465.425,"end":8487.155,"text":"就因為這樣子而沒有競爭力而導致這些從業人員他的從業人員得到的這些薪資就不足以他在這個市場上面的消費造成這個市場消費的低所以在面對關稅匯率甚至於中東戰爭這些壓力下的時候其實這個穩定住物價穩定住電價會顯得特別重要"},{"start":8490.537,"end":8506.21,"text":"因為他一旦動了這個電價有可能就會讓業者的壓力更加巨大同時對於經濟的衝擊恐怕就更加的剩餘我想這些都是智庫他們評估出來的一些數據那我們也敬請各位委員"},{"start":8506.79,"end":8523.552,"text":"我希望經濟部要加強持續的說明好不好其實要讓更多人知道讓大家知道其實穩住電價穩住物價這件事情是政府很重要的一個工作特別是在現在的這個局勢下其實對我們的產業對我們的這個相當重要啦齁那沒穩能夠穩住的話其實"},{"start":8524.853,"end":8545.93,"text":"他所投入的這些由政府的盈餘所投入的錢其實反倒會創造出對台灣更有利的一個環境出來這個對台灣是非常重要我希望經濟部加強來做更多的宣傳好不好讓國人更支持讓草野立委們更支持我們會努力我們也希望所有的這個草野的委員都能夠支持這個一千億的撥步謝謝部長最後一個問題問一下那個副總裁部長請先休息"},{"start":8550.514,"end":8567.935,"text":"總統其實在我們當時棒球拿到12強冠軍的時候有講到其實我們的500元可以放上發行紀念幣像我們看到很多包括像北愛爾蘭像斐濟都也有發行紀念幣這個部分發行一方面也是這個"},{"start":8569.116,"end":8585.595,"text":"台灣能夠拿到這個棒球的冠軍這真的是不容易啦這是非常不容易的事情那也是值得台灣驕傲的事情那像這樣的事情值得紀念的事情發行特別經過了半年的規劃的副總裁有沒有做後續的一些推動的一個方案"},{"start":8588.208,"end":8605.1,"text":"其實因為長期來講 因為我們的新台幣的發行也有一陣子 也有二十幾年了所以其實我們內部一直都有在做這樣子新台幣的發行的改版的規劃只是時機成熟或者是我們自然會對外宣布"},{"start":8606.747,"end":8627.066,"text":"我認為如果時間點到的時候其實是可以適度的啦我希望CP企業請中央銀行這邊一個月內提出一個評估啦好不好就是我覺得適當的時間點總統也講了其實也是很難得啦棒球是台灣的國球很多人喜歡棒球而拿到世界冠軍12強的世界冠軍這個真的是非常的不容易的一件事情"},{"start":8628.888,"end":8645.984,"text":"記載這個榮耀同時間讓我們的進入到我們的貨幣裡面我認為是一個很值得做的事情那在更換的時候不管是更換或者甚至特別發行一個紀念幣我認為其實都可以對國人都是一個振奮同時間也是在例行性要做的範圍內去執行啦我認為中央銀行可以審慎來考慮"},{"start":8648.286,"end":8676.579,"text":"那個報告委員因為其實您剛才秀的是我們的紀念幣嘛冠軍那個就是這一次的紀念幣我們前幾天已經紀念幣有但我講的另外是紙幣裡面就是紙幣的部分我剛講的下一頁來看一下其實在其他的國家也有把他們的很優秀的運動選手甚至很好的表現放入到他們的紙幣裡面那我認為其實我們的不管一百五百一千的其實可以適度的去做一些的那個改版的時候什麼時候"},{"start":8677.159,"end":8705.899,"text":"適度的放入那其實對於整個是非常的提振而且讓更多優秀的運動選手優秀的一些歷史的紀念的一個意義放進來我認為這個是一個好的方向啦但在例行性要更換並不增加太多成本狀況下我認為這是一個非常好的減少政治的意向增加更多人民關注的運動意向或者是相關的藝文意向我認為或者台灣的意向我認為都是好事好不好那個副總裁回去思考一下一個月給我們報告好不好好謝謝"},{"start":8707,"end":8715.567,"text":"好 謝謝在邱正偉委員詢答結束後休息7分鐘現在請鄭天才委員做詢答主席有請經濟部部長郭國斌"},{"start":8740.05,"end":8765.387,"text":"部長好 辛苦了這個有關這個電價的部分主要還是能源政策的問題這個部長你要回顧一下你剛上任的時候都提到核能是可以用的總統特別聘請了"},{"start":8767.539,"end":8794.98,"text":"這個童子賢董事長擔任這個氣候變遷委員會的副召集人他也一再強調核能所以這個是一個能源政策的問題所以台電是無辜的但是政府怎麼樣去推動這個不是非常非常的重要所以這個部分這個核能核電可以省千億"},{"start":8796.451,"end":8820.749,"text":"那是我們這個這個撥補的問題好這個我們今天回到這個今天的主題因應國際經貿情勢變化這個部分好這個以阿的戰爭真的是本來說要12日戰爭要停止了但是"},{"start":8822.099,"end":8844.926,"text":"停火協議,這個兩邊又以一同意,停火又互封,又互相攻擊當然千變萬化了,說不定今天就停了,說不定我們是期盼但是我們沒有辦法預估這個整個世界的局勢,沒有辦法預估世界的局勢"},{"start":8846.212,"end":8873.232,"text":"所以這個在今天的經濟部的報告裡面特別提到受國際經貿情勢變化影響美元的走勢這些都會跟我們這個台幣的升值都有相關也會影響到我們整個台灣的經濟高度仰賴出口的一個情形所以這個俄烏的戰爭以及"},{"start":8876.124,"end":8897.646,"text":"伊朗跟以色列的這個戰爭這個都是會影響然後尤其是伊朗又對這個美國的卡達的這個基地去轟炸上次也談到了這個海峽是不是要被封然後我們自己國內"},{"start":8899.956,"end":8921.736,"text":"部長也要欠賴總統團結思想用詞還是要小心的不要激怒對岸因為我對賴總統的了解他還真的是台獨的金孫他可以憲法不用改法律不用改"},{"start":8923.467,"end":8951.421,"text":"第一個完成的是什麼,知道嗎?部長你可能不會感覺到,大家不會感覺到之前就做過了,行政院長,他當行政院長的時候沒有台灣省政府啦憲法還在喔地方制度法還在喔台灣省政府組織規則也還在喔所以這個是吉利啦,所以我們兩岸還是要避免戰爭,要和平"},{"start":8953.141,"end":8964.688,"text":"所以這個會跟我們的經濟都有很大的關係了所以這個部分因為有這樣的一個很多的變數我要談的是說"},{"start":8966.459,"end":8985.608,"text":"這個當初啊當初特別條例所提出來的本來880億後來增加到930億這個都是正確的但是因為經過了從上次特別條例送到立法院也過了好幾個月然後又增加了這麼多的變數這個930億這樣的額度"},{"start":8997.369,"end":9009.12,"text":"我們不知道韓國瑜院長因為我們召委已經召開過朝野協商接下來會送給韓國瑜院長來主持"},{"start":9010.229,"end":9027.836,"text":"所以經濟部也必須要包括農業部都要先因應怎麼樣去針對現在原來的提供企業金融支持提升產業競爭力協助企業開拓多元市場支持勞工安定就業"},{"start":9030.165,"end":9048.251,"text":"這個部分就經濟部的業務來講這個要隨時的去因應目前有沒有新的想那個規劃新的一個評估是 報告委員我想謝謝您的這個關注那因為現在這個法案還在立法院"},{"start":9049.031,"end":9068.172,"text":"所以已經兩個月了我們事實上要做緊急的對應事實上目前在錢上面是有困難我們現在都先使用過去還有編列的一些預算提早來因應給這些有碰到衝擊的這些"},{"start":9070.675,"end":9087.632,"text":"這些廠商那我們在盤點看起來就是說我們雖然有提了這麼多的這些方案那當初我們的構想是說這個如果不足我們再來編列但是以現在來講我們在看起來目前"},{"start":9088.533,"end":9113.105,"text":"大概廠商直接來申請的這個詢問的很多就是每天大概我們的這個快速的這個服務小組我們在每天大概還能夠接到七八十通的電話那麼關注的大概就是有哪一些補助但是來申請的因為現在錢也沒下來嘛所以申請的部分還是部長我的意見是我的建議啦"},{"start":9114.184,"end":9142.638,"text":"是針對千變萬化的國際局勢所以我的意思說在韓國瑜院長主持協商之前你們要有一些因應措施要不要加碼還是怎麼樣增加要怎麼樣調整是這個建議啦好不好是謝謝委員好那接下來就請部長回座請國發會副主委高副主委"},{"start":9150.053,"end":9171.311,"text":"副主委 跟這個經濟沒有關係但是跟花蓮台東的這個非常有密切的關係那這個因為0403地震去年的0403地震現在一年兩個多月了台鐵宜花東地區鐵路設施安全改善計畫64.1億元"},{"start":9175.876,"end":9190.795,"text":"行政那個交通部我吹了吹了吹了交通部之後也跟這個你們也提過了所以希望趕快送他結果6月11號之前送了送到行政院行政院當然就交付給這個國發會那現在國發會進度怎麼樣"},{"start":9194.517,"end":9217.296,"text":"好 報告委員的確那個交通部在6月12號報院那行政院在6月16號交一個本會那我們在6月20號已經發文給各個單位然後我們後續會按照審議的程序來辦理那個建議副主委發文是已經發文了對不對對那你們還要開會嘛對不對對"},{"start":9219.844,"end":9244.9,"text":"拜託趕快開會發文之後不要等那個文來啦請他們帶著開會的時候都帶著那個意見過來好不好因為這個時間很緊迫已經一年多了一年多了我來讓這個副主委看一下回顧一下北回鐵路北回鐵路1973年10月一個颱風"},{"start":9251.024,"end":9270.778,"text":"1979年12月就完工了而且是在1973年12月25號就動工了兩個月就動工了我們這個已經一年多了然後北迴鐵路總共66年就通車了它多長啊北迴鐵路79.2公里22個大橋66座隧道"},{"start":9280.001,"end":9304.148,"text":"是這樣日日夜夜的做你看我們這個現在啊我們要做現在的河仁到崇德只有1.6公里而已啊1.6公里啊弄一年多都還沒有核定啊啊好不好你有錢就堆下預算嘛特別預算也可以放嘛哦還沒有反正特別預算還沒審定嘛"},{"start":9305.645,"end":9319.228,"text":"趕快審議好不好好沒有問題另外就是最後的花東台鐵漲價嘛台鐵漲價6月23號開始漲價但是現在花東會員台鐵推了花東會員優惠措施僅限於涉及花東的"},{"start":9329.264,"end":9344.623,"text":"我們是希望能夠增加那經費當然是希望從花東基金你不能讓台鐵去承擔這個責任所以不能僅限於涉及於花東應該要包含了增加"},{"start":9345.544,"end":9369.661,"text":"身份證UV的都可以然後他的子女十字血清一傾等的配偶都可以然後還有在花蓮台東就學就業的這些學生跟勞工或是其他的職業的尤其是老人會員老人怎麼會那個會員對不對"},{"start":9372.734,"end":9398.516,"text":"只要是老人就給他優惠啦 還要什麼 還要會員老人怎麼會使用那個呢 對不對好不好 發動基金要支持啦 好不好好 基本上這個應該是交通部權責啦不過委員的意見我們會表達給交通部然後請交通部再審慎的研議不是 我之前啦 就主要是經費啦他們考量是經費啦 好不好好 OK我們再來協調 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":9402.267,"end":9420.676,"text":"現在請邱志偉委員做詢答謝謝主席我是邀請經濟部的郭部長還有產發署邱署長邱署長"},{"start":9423.183,"end":9444.642,"text":"還有中小企業署那個李署長那個部長第一個問題請教就是說早上啊我開一個記者會就是百股產業園區台積電當然他是他要設設廠還有他的評估程序但是政府要提供他一個優質的這個生產環境什麼叫優質生產環境就是"},{"start":9445.302,"end":9473.624,"text":"沒有缺水缺電的問題而且要secure 要確保第一個 土地沒有問題而且要經過環評所以這樣看一看好地點沒有幾個其中一個在高雄市九頭宮山中就是在橋坑跟路坑中間未來打造成先進製程的一個軸心帶所以如果有兩奈米在這個南寺台園區再往北一點"},{"start":9474.764,"end":9494.317,"text":"串聯橋科跟這個陸科在這個白埔財源區設立一奈米我想不管是陳市長或者我們立法院所有的高雄市立委都全力支持我也希望中央能夠協助向這個台積電來推薦這個優質的地方也通過環評對它的生產製程不會有任何這個環境的問題水電也都確保無虞"},{"start":9502.523,"end":9513.769,"text":"他們員工未來如果在那邊受賞員工的生活機能非常方便有大型的醫院需要拼貨又有捷運又有雙交流道這麼好的環境台灣找不到幾塊了柏林你覺得怎麼樣我想這個謝謝委員的指導我想這個"},{"start":9523.305,"end":9550.683,"text":"白浦的這個園區啊我想條件如果像委員講的這個樣子我們可以向台積電來推薦因為主要他是這個用客戶嘛那對這個經濟部來講台積電他比較希望是國科園區他是希望到科學園區"},{"start":9552.364,"end":9560.222,"text":"但是我們要擺埔不是可以 因為是產業園區但是這個兩奈米也是在這個 以前五清的時候是男子產業園區"},{"start":9561.721,"end":9589.975,"text":"那個已經抱邊給國科會了那未來也可以再抱邊給國科會啊是 我們大家可以朝這個方向來努力啦我想所以您願意跟台積電來推薦經濟部絕對沒有問題啦就是能夠繁榮地方然後能夠促進這個台積電能夠更有競爭力這部分經濟力是全力以赴好 那我順便問一下那個國科會不是 國化會國化會高副主委那國化會的立場呢"},{"start":9592.435,"end":9619.507,"text":"因為這個要跨部會包括經濟部包括國化會也包括國科會那國化會的立場呢我們當然就是我們就是看國科會跟經濟部協調的結果如果有機會的話會請劉助委再跟台積電來反映來推薦是可以好 謝謝那那個第二個問題請教部長跟邱署長就是說陸竹產業園區也是我爭取的白埔產業園區也是我爭取的"},{"start":9619.847,"end":9638.679,"text":"那現在北高雄產業園區也已經開始在招商,開始在設廠那落地三萬很苦,在民族樓下可能邱處長還了解那現在大概正在找地確定範圍之後,就開始做相關的程序我想請教一下這個邱處長,目前的進度如何?入竹產業園區"},{"start":9640.577,"end":9657.301,"text":"陸主應該是科學園區不是啦陸主三門洪窟是我經營的原本是白埔跟北高雄產業園區現在白埔要轉型成高科技園區對不對給新興建築製程所以再補一塊在陸主這個產業很久了啦這個可能蘇律師不太了解齁"},{"start":9662.756,"end":9673.005,"text":"這個已經成型了而且地點已經確定了我也開過好幾次會我是瞭解目前進度如何有沒有辦過地方說明會目前的範圍確定是怎麼樣這要給傳統生意"},{"start":9677.506,"end":9698.297,"text":"要在本州工業區跟陸科的中間那一塊,那條路我也把它拓寬了,反正是像雄霄玫瑰,我把它拓寬成四線道所以那個是一個很好的提供傳統產業一個生產的基地,讓做螺絲的、扣件的都可以在這裡設廠"},{"start":9699.707,"end":9716.238,"text":"另外提到之前跟你請教過這個新達海基他現在沒有訂單所以他必須要轉型新達海基那個基地在新達港其實在碼頭對面那很快的距離大概我種植過大概有三四十公頃所以我一直主張"},{"start":9717.339,"end":9732.607,"text":"每一個區都要有一個產業一個進步有競爭力的城市除了宜居 除了健康之外最重要是你要有產業所以在港鐵塔它的海洋特色它外海有夠有夠高所以海洋科技產業園區"},{"start":9734.068,"end":9761.63,"text":"可以在那個地方做整個這個也大概討論過好幾次了我希望說這個海洋科技財業園區到底主政是在產發署呢還是還是在漁業署可能你們跨部會再協調一下這是好地方啦海洋科技財業園區這個那個產發署已經有跟我討論好幾次可能署長再去掌握一下哈你那好基地啦你放在那都沒需要"},{"start":9764.755,"end":9780.164,"text":"很浪費啦 真沒菜啦而且你如果有設立一個類似於我們產業園區例如說北高雄產業園區這種提供給北高雄這些有需求有建廠需求的這些傳統產業可以在那邊設廠也帶動家庭的發展"},{"start":9788.665,"end":9801.352,"text":"這個部分作為特色的產業園區還有一個關鍵就是說要能夠在那個地方找得到這個從業人、就業的同仁那家庭裡面沒有那麼多人我家庭裡面還有後來嘛"},{"start":9806.374,"end":9832.555,"text":"所以那麼少子化願意從事這個產產業園區就有別於一般的工廠產業園區當然還有一些自動化的要求它有一些這個環境的要求也有管理所以這點我想這個勞動力應該沒有問題這兩個都是經濟部的政策不是我現在還在說而已已經有一段時間了那我們回來評論一下入竹產業園區這些名字是我學的"},{"start":9835.306,"end":9860.166,"text":"確定海洋產業科技領域也是我好但是已經討論過好幾次了我希望署長再回去了解一下那個地方應該可以發展那個無人載具啦海洋無人載具的特色只要有產業進駐我就覺得對地方是一個好的事情另外上次跟你請教過中科院跟漢翔這個旅院的糾紛啊這個好像是說行政院要來協調後來好像沒有進度嘛"},{"start":9861.624,"end":9871.059,"text":"是的 我們當然是抱怨抱到行政院這個部分我想經濟部自己本身沒有辦法因為這個屬於國防部的業務"},{"start":9872.884,"end":9889.808,"text":"那經濟部承接所以應該是拱明星秘書長來做協調跨部會的有安排時間要討論協調這件事了已經有安排時間有安排了不要說到時候已經這個已經講了兩個月兩個月都還沒有安排有安排了那這個扣件這個最後一題"},{"start":9895.075,"end":9911.014,"text":"這個扣件都在我的山坡裏面全世界最重要的螺絲扣件生產基地之一全三大所以現在扣件組成國家阿隊有沒有具體的成果"},{"start":9911.826,"end":9936.479,"text":"有 我們現在具體的是先提升它的這個提升它的能力提升它的製造能力我們用AI然後來讓它使用那提升它的製造能力第二個 透過Exco來降低它的操作成本第三個讓它購料可以降低成本這四項具體的作為這麻煩部裡面再提供一個比較詳細目前的進度可以可以"},{"start":9937.539,"end":9964.5,"text":"這個我們可以中小企業署那個李署長跟國發會昨天我們這個所謂創業天使基金在南部掛牌我希望中小企業署能夠對更多的新創有協助配合國發會的天使基金因為過去在南部那個新創幾乎我不能說沙漠但是是快變沙漠但你要沙漠變綠洲不可能那麼快你要寬土"},{"start":9965.461,"end":9985.368,"text":"土壤要改變你要讓它可以成長的這個條件所以你在天使基金的部分另外在中小企業署上面有辦更多的媒合或者招商會啊讓那些中小企業第一個他缺少資金這些資金齁國家基金會倒三天另外在政策上面看這邊水利的"},{"start":9985.788,"end":9986.249,"text":"現在休息七分鐘"},{"start":10007.96,"end":10009.721,"text":"中文字幕志愿者 李宗盛"},{"start":10027.287,"end":10031.889,"text":"這就是塔布瓦的那一面 明顯是很漂亮的 漂亮的 時間不夠多了這就是塔布瓦"},{"start":10050.632,"end":10055.633,"text":"然後他們現在已經在出國了我覺得他們現在很好人現在都那麼多人快點不要那麼多人不要那麼多人"},{"start":10080.678,"end":10083.66,"text":"中文字幕志愿者 李宗盛"},{"start":10102.138,"end":10104.26,"text":"在這裏面有很多不同的雕像"},{"start":10116.254,"end":10124.318,"text":"我覺得也是推來推去的經濟已經推給了很多人然後這個也很好 反正我覺得感覺也是推來推去的"},{"start":10140.845,"end":10143.347,"text":"我看這個回答是某種程度的對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,"},{"start":10171.985,"end":10194.47,"text":"因為現在的公園圈就差不多一半一半的公園所以說店的只有地方可以有全面的公園然後還有開大部分的公園那中央如果是文化社會的公園它就有多大一半的公園它現在通過文化社會的公園就是一個公園"},{"start":10195.93,"end":10212.278,"text":"謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝"},{"start":10428.497,"end":10453.207,"text":"現在開會請陳昌明委員做詢答首先有請國外會我們的高位主委"},{"start":10459.52,"end":10468.41,"text":"委員好各位主委好你是國會最老的一個副主委不是最有經驗的不能講你老最有資歷的這樣你就會笑出來完全同意委員的說法"},{"start":10475.677,"end":10495.958,"text":"那在上週我來請教大西股計畫裡面有關於厚隆產業科技園區主管機關的規則那現在劉志偉的回覆是經濟部我們也跟經濟部切入作為中央目的事業主管機關"},{"start":10498.072,"end":10508.628,"text":"我這裏還有兩項就是另外職人科學研究科學篇的部分劉子緯也答應說在兩週之內他會跟國科會來進行協調"},{"start":10511.334,"end":10527.848,"text":"所以在這,我會請最有經驗、最資深的高屋指揮,今天劉指揮不在,但是我希望你記得他講的話,說兩週之內,他一定會去協調一個進展來恢復本席,這你給我介紹一下"},{"start":10531.004,"end":10553.112,"text":"苗園館大溪谷計畫能持續的推動這都是我們苗園館所期待的事情但是現在厚農產業園區中央目的事業主管機關是屬於政府政府這個也確定了但是我們再去研究之後發現有一個大問題因為這裡面有一個就是"},{"start":10560.649,"end":10570.595,"text":"火龍科技產業園區是特定農業區但是農業部長有沒有在因為農業部有時候很難溝通農業部的立場"},{"start":10584.598,"end":10608.315,"text":"就是特定農業區要變更使用的話一定要經行行政院核定的計畫或公共建設手續的計畫的用地鐵台電汽工委特定農業區要改變使用的話它是屬於行政院核定"},{"start":10609.488,"end":10635.62,"text":"我現在剛才好像大碗沒有核定在那個副市長你也最了解霍隆那個科技產業MG叫做水尾田水尾田就是我們灌溉的時候那孩子部長大概跟我比較小的我就不曉得你不曉不曉得水尾田就是以前我們在灌溉都要看那個灌溉的時候都要審產水我都經歷這個階段"},{"start":10637.521,"end":10652.231,"text":"那很早很早以前他這一塊就農地重化了他現在在做什麼呢土豆、水粿又發生經濟的效益其實沒有而且他是屬於輪貫的地區"},{"start":10655.447,"end":10684.637,"text":"休耕的地區以十一大區輪輪辦的地區地啊我現在常常遇到這個問題所以你們的規定是叫做國家重大建設但是高副主委你們現在都在跟我說就是大溪谷計畫是國家重要政策喔這有什麼問題啊你們不懂啊這文字遊戲我很怕你們都不承認啊"},{"start":10688.291,"end":10691.372,"text":"我現在要跟高副指揮報告的是說,投中銀行大巿股計劃是賴總統的重見,行政院長、左院長若去苗栗,我們苗栗要好好開發,苗栗才能繁榮進步。"},{"start":10714.075,"end":10738.311,"text":"國務委員會將大四股計畫視為114年到117年國家發展計畫發展的一個策略跟政策我現在要求行政院說大四股計畫是國家的重大建設好像沒什麼人敢去答應"},{"start":10739.636,"end":10767.777,"text":"我覺得肩膀要硬一點你這有辦法幫我協調溝通嗎好把它合同為國家重大經濟的建設這樣我們就開始推動了啊副市長我這跟你說不然你來看看你問我們內行的他剛好在灌溉裡面我們叫做水尾田啦那都多死於沙地實在不適宜耕種了啊會讓位很多的資源在那一邊啊"},{"start":10768.854,"end":10778.885,"text":"我現在要拜託你行政院好像對於這一點比較不重視你可以去跟我們溝通我們只要是屬於國家重大的經濟建設"},{"start":10781.448,"end":10801.106,"text":"你這樣有了解嗎我跟委員報告一下國營關心的竹南、投奉還有後龍這個三個區域的確是納在我們桃園桃竹苗大細股的推動方案竹南跟投奉是屬於科學園區然後後龍的產業園區是屬於產業園區分屬於國科衛跟經濟部的確主委有答應委員我們會在兩個"},{"start":10808.252,"end":10812.837,"text":"禮拜裡面的協調因為不管是產業園區是科學園區的認定都是要由主管機關來做認定那我們會扮演中間協調的角色剛剛講到有關於後農的農業的這些農牧用地"},{"start":10825.59,"end":10853.829,"text":"特定農業用地應該是不是他要必須要符合農業用地的變更使用的審議作業規範的要點那基本上他只要屬於重大的國家重大的公務建設的話他都可以進行變更那這個我們會在那個審議這個會議裡面呢我們去協調農業部那我們基本上因為這些認定還是必須要主責單位來來做認定可是我們會全力的協調"},{"start":10855.39,"end":10869.805,"text":"你這樣子講有一點玩文字遊戲啊我以為沒有問題了你特種農業區一定要行政院行政院核大的國家重大建設他才要跟你說我只愛這幾年"},{"start":10871.326,"end":10895.211,"text":"你告訴我這個屬於國家重大建設計畫這樣我就好了這樣你有辦法去完成這件事情不是 因為那還是屬於農業用地我某個程度上還不是啦 這樣推來推去我站在這裡站到生意講幾十天這樣講幾天之後怎麼跟你們說呢我覺得因為主委已經答應兩個禮拜內要做協調那是屬於國各位的現在我是要行政院"},{"start":10897.021,"end":10916.391,"text":"因為我們裡面有一個法規規定如果你聽得好喔特種農業區要變更土地的話一定要行政院核准的重大建設我看那個法令有沒有規定沒有出來給你我現在是這樣你們能聽到嗎好"},{"start":10922.355,"end":10946.262,"text":"行政院合併的那個中大公共建設,它有一定它的行政程序...好啦,這樣講到簡單的啦,你這話實在是很浪費的啊你也是念法律系畢業的喔?我不是念法律系畢業的,因為我公務員做很久,我知道一切都要依法行政...我現在問你,大氣鼓計畫是國家重大的政策對不對?是的那它是國家重大的經濟建設嗎?"},{"start":10949.215,"end":10973.624,"text":"發大聲對我們滿懷的期待,要不然你們自己玩,我們這遊戲會破了我不會這樣,不然我不會這個問題一再的嘛你不要笑,笑不能解決問題啊主委已經有說我們會全力協調可是所有的作業程序還是要有到行政程序來對付我簡單,你重大政策,大西谷計畫"},{"start":10976.137,"end":10998.373,"text":"從台中以北最重要的一個經濟經濟最重要的一個建設你自己設政策我叫你給我肯定一下國家重大的經濟建設這樣而已你不要跟我談政策我們都了解我自己要的就是國家重大經濟建設這樣而已你給我發一個文來我們就交出去我們會怕"},{"start":11004.431,"end":11028.223,"text":"你這樣到底聽得到嗎聽得到聽得到我會表達我會表達給我們主委知道要怎麼解決你三位機關啊你們是計畫你們推動的啊你這個政策是行政院核定的啊我現在要再進一步請行政院核定是屬於國家中大的"},{"start":11029.377,"end":11035.961,"text":"那個經濟計畫 經濟建設還是要用行政院合作我顧問可以幫我解決 好啦 多久包括這個 現在是講的是"},{"start":11046.634,"end":11060.3,"text":"國客為了這個講的農業部他在特種農業區所以一定要行政院核整國家重大建設他才好過不然給農業部推來推去推到腳都會軟"},{"start":11063.243,"end":11083.677,"text":"阿副處長你了解配合一下 跟您拜託一下我們會配合行政院的中台的經濟建設我就是要那幾二年一直沒落下 只說國家重大出錯你這樣搞我搞得迷迷糊糊我們不必打爛仗要推動經濟 補充電喔 補充啊要推動經濟就是要腳踏實地對不對"},{"start":11091.135,"end":11115.425,"text":"我們非常贊同這個委員的指教我贊成你的指教好 好 好 你如果要跟我打招呼我就會支持你們的政策各方面的好不好謝謝 謝謝委員我還有一個時間 中央銀行的在不在有在 原副總裁在這個哈利夢的中央銀行"},{"start":11120.203,"end":11144.396,"text":"副總裁好現在大家的費率就跟你們有關係但是我一天吃飯有一個專家跟我說你要特別注意美國的什麼大額美法案對不對裡面有一個金融科技法案他說美國的美債36兆它要轉化為虛擬貨幣"},{"start":11150.198,"end":11157.182,"text":"如果你要拿到虛擬貨幣的發債錢,要把他36兆的美債買來,才能發行虛擬貨幣,有沒有這個事情?目前...要恭喜這位喔!"},{"start":11170.595,"end":11190.437,"text":"他們的最重要是在這一條啊美國財政部他希望他的穩定幣裡面有一塊是由他發的公債來支持啦但是這個都是還在發展中因為過去已經有了那只是說會不會想起會不會成為很大的規模其實其實因為我們美債那麼多"},{"start":11193.019,"end":11200.388,"text":"如果我們去把美在拿我們花零我們中華民國的那個新年貨幣等於之前的貨幣"},{"start":11204.316,"end":11228.421,"text":"那個鮑威委員這是兩個不同的問題啦對對對我曉得不同的問題美國人會做的現在付這個多少錢就花虛擬貨幣把美債降低下來用虛擬貨幣在那邊轉啊他們說這個才是大生意啊這個是我們一直在關注的發展集團我一直關注是懷疑如果有這樣你要怎麼樣大家可能還沒有需要大而美的法案他說最重要就是這一條"},{"start":11229.661,"end":11252.441,"text":"發行虛擬貨幣來美再來發行虛擬貨幣那個報告委員其實我們一直在關注不管是穩定幣或虛擬貨幣這些發展的情況那我想我們一直有在關注這個問題的未來的問題現在世界黨來黨去你來預估一下我們的匯率會升值到哪裡"},{"start":11253.402,"end":11271.571,"text":"那個報告委員我們的...我們固定的答案就是我們看...你固定的答案就是不能講要配合美國來動作啊沒有沒有沒有我們有... 夠積極的啦 夠簡單的啦那個報告委員匯率是由我們自己決 是央行自己來參與市場的啦我從42塊"},{"start":11274.138,"end":11275.759,"text":"我們過去幾年我們也看到台幣其實它的波動幅度還蠻大的"},{"start":11292.774,"end":11318.709,"text":"要整個啦 我自己要整個讓外銷進口的人有一點應用的測試啊這個報告委員 這個也要看那個國際美元的走勢是怎麼樣你看美國那個什麼美食比貨幣有多硬總統講的話不聽欸啊你這邊也要跟我們講一下大概給我們這些台灣是貿易國家嘛你大概我們貨率會貶值到大概多少錢啊"},{"start":11319.758,"end":11330.124,"text":"我們匯率,你是說生殖還是貶值?沒有,沒辦法出口的就叫做生殖,進口的貶值,進口的生殖你說一下"},{"start":11338.328,"end":11365.463,"text":"這個東西因為匯率它基本上有影響的因素有很多有國際的因素我剛才講過的國際美元的走勢還有國內的這些進出口的表現都會影響到我看是由天不由人我們是隨波逐流跟著大概也會跟著不斷走沒有沒有那個報告委員因為我們是一個那個管理式的浮動匯率在必要的時候我們一直在維持匯率的相對穩定的"},{"start":11369.437,"end":11377.133,"text":"現在大家都在煩惱這個問題他們一講不做事情就會虧損了很多錢啊連我們政府也要好好嘛"},{"start":11379.184,"end":11407.586,"text":"我們的競爭者也很多啊匯率是我們外銷最重要的一個工具啊所以維持匯率穩定一直是我們一直在做的事啊我是要問你一個答案你跟你們的總裁一樣手口如瓶稍微透露一下你在財政委員會可以稍微透露也在經濟委員會透露因為匯率跟台灣的經濟外銷產業是息息相關的大概多少"},{"start":11408.632,"end":11428.021,"text":"也就是因為它不完全是由我們自己單方面能夠預測或決定的所以它是一個蠻複雜的一個市場因素在主導那當然央行在必要的時候我們會維持匯率的穩定希望促進臺灣產業的發展我們辦銷還能順利現在沒有發生現在是搶後期"},{"start":11433.763,"end":11443.066,"text":"等那個對等期限一到的話對等關稅期限一到的時候可能會有很大的變化要特別的適應是是是謝謝好謝謝委員指導好謝謝全市議案委員會執行"},{"start":11465.516,"end":11489.462,"text":"謝謝主席我想要請央行的嚴副總裁副總裁楊總裁跟我講說你跟他一樣優秀今天都沒有給你發揮是不是大家都沒有問你"},{"start":11491.544,"end":11504.314,"text":"大家最關心的現在就是4月30號台幣兌美元是32.017元那今天呢29.46"},{"start":11507.694,"end":11522.854,"text":"我想要請教你的美國銀行BOA他預測年底的匯率是28.8元到明年底是27.6元你怎麼看"},{"start":11524.414,"end":11540.943,"text":"那個報告我也因為不管是美國銀行或其他的外資的機構其實他們經常都會對他的客戶做台幣或其他國家貨幣的匯率預測那我們通常也會看一下他的分析的理由但是我們不能夠"},{"start":11541.983,"end":11562.837,"text":"我們因為我們自己在成為一個外匯市場參與者我們不願意對他們的評論他們的預測有任何的評論因為匯率我剛才也回答陳委員講的匯率其實影響的因素是很多也不完全是我們看國內或國外因素能夠主導的對但是"},{"start":11567.588,"end":11572.6,"text":"當台幣美元一直升值的這樣子的情況對於國內的產業"},{"start":11576.178,"end":11603.334,"text":"我們不知道說為什麼會在兩個月的期間升值這麼多當然是國際的因素但是4月30當美國的對等關稅發生的時候我們去跟我們去工業區跟中小企業來座談那時候我記得有一個廠商我印象非常深刻他說"},{"start":11604.918,"end":11623.666,"text":"美國的客戶跟他說我們來簽一年的契約訂單他說一年的訂單我完全給你他說他沒有辦法跟他簽一年的訂單他只要跟他簽到三個月而已"},{"start":11624.616,"end":11639.935,"text":"代表了他已經預估了不管是關稅的因素不管當然那時候我們不知道匯率的因素對於中小企業能產生這麼大的影響"},{"start":11642.165,"end":11668.476,"text":"我們升值了那會對他的成本有造成重大影響他的成本在短期間之內有辦法降低7%來因應我們台幣升值8% 7%這樣子的影響嗎所以當我們的匯率因素這麼嚴峻的情況下我想請教你第二個問題的是"},{"start":11670.782,"end":11688.643,"text":"未來你認為國際的情勢的這樣子的變化到底是匯率因素還是關稅因素還是能源的因素對於台灣的產業會造成最重大的影響"},{"start":11690.49,"end":11707.465,"text":"因為台灣是一個出口導向的國家那影響我們出口有兩大因素一個是國外的需求一個是我們的價格因素價格因素裡面就包含了匯率因素包含我們的物價這些相關的因素在後面"},{"start":11708.386,"end":11725.198,"text":"那當然這個除了價格因素之外我們看到我們的出口的過去的出口表現裡面我們還呈現了一塊就是我們的出口品質的提升我們的科技創新的那種附加價值在後面所以你看我們最近這幾"},{"start":11726.619,"end":11744.617,"text":"最近以来我们的台币升值在我们的报告里面也提到它其实是有经济面的基础在支持的包括我们的出口成长相较于其他国家来的有很多我们的经济成长率表现也非常的好这个也就是说明了我们有它的经济的"},{"start":11745.658,"end":11764.446,"text":"基礎在後面支持台幣近期的升值但是我們也知道就是說台幣升值對於企業短期間快速甚至對不利於企業經營所以我們也一直嘗試的在維持匯率的相對穩定所以各位可以看到我們的在報告裡面的表"},{"start":11766.006,"end":11784.111,"text":"圖八第五頁我們可以明顯看到台灣其實我們過去一直以來我們相對我們要維持一個匯率的穩定其實是有它的用意的因為我們知道匯率穩定對於產業的出口是有很大的重要的影響因素的"},{"start":11785.588,"end":11812.529,"text":"對 所以我看到了總裁在記者會上面有說要協助中小企業面對這個匯率的 因應這個匯率的我想要請 我也要同時請郭部長喔怎麼樣子我們要怎麼樣子協助中小企業副總裁 你們總裁是希望怎麼樣協助中小企業是給郭部長做還是怎樣"},{"start":11815.144,"end":11830.313,"text":"謝謝委員我們協助中小企業大概分成四個方向剛才我想副總裁也有講出口的部分其實是我們希望能夠讓這個廠商提升它的價值"},{"start":11831.394,"end":11853.241,"text":"提升它的價值 提升它的價值呢 事實上是從品質上面著手所以我們會幫助中小微企業來打練它的競爭力 這第一個第二個 我們降低它的成本 降低它的成本是從兩個部分一個是從它的設備支出的成本 那政府有這個Exco的這個這樣的一個輔導機制"},{"start":11855.322,"end":11881.47,"text":"所以我們從這個地方來降低它的成本太舊煥新 設備太舊煥新第二個就是它的成本裡面有一大部分是材料成本所以它在購料的部分我們盡量讓它採取共同性的部分由經濟部來協助它能夠統購統購這些材料然後透過我們的法人機構再分配下去事實上這是不會影響到所謂的經濟的秩序"},{"start":11882.33,"end":11900.67,"text":"那但是呢對這些小微公司啊中小微的公司他事實上可以拿到大概3-5%的降低的材料成本的這個機會那第三個來講的話呢我們可以幫助他打造這個國外的這個市場但是國外的市場牽扯到所謂的這個"},{"start":11901.891,"end":11928.343,"text":"这个汇率的问题所以我们转了向希望能够以大代小也就是说国内的大型的公司或者中型的公司我们建议他能够我们帮这些小微公司improve他的这个function以后我想对他来讲采用这个国产的这些设备最近我们又发现我们在谈关税以后发现因为美国有一个非常大的要求是在非红供应链"},{"start":11929.463,"end":11955.094,"text":"所以我們發現我們有半導體有AI有一些資通訊的這些產品可能會有把這些機會讓台灣的這個廠商拿到這樣的一個機會這一些都是他們有增加市場然後我們幫他打造他的競爭力以後我相信這個會改善他自己目前的這個困境所以這個是這個經濟部現在極力在推動的這個行為問題是"},{"start":11958.806,"end":11977.536,"text":"你要多久才會有成效我們現在面對的就是匯率在短期間內造成這麼樣子重大的甚至國際的金融機構都預測台幣未來還是持續走升值的情況"},{"start":11979.797,"end":12006.497,"text":"這對於我們的中小企業會產生影響總裁在這裡對金融業也產生了重大的影響當我們要求金融業對於企業進行放貸進行紓困的時候但是如果企業面對不確定性的風險剛才前面也有非常多的委員提到了中小企業不敢接單"},{"start":12007.558,"end":12034.993,"text":"不敢接單不敢從事生產那雖然今年的經濟成長因為這幾個月關稅宣布前我們的搶單的情況但是對於明年開始整個市場不確定的因素那我們的中小企業怎麼做他們不敢接單不敢投資不敢借錢那"},{"start":12035.474,"end":12040.934,"text":"我們的給予的貸款優惠就沒有政策的效果了"},{"start":12041.716,"end":12066.501,"text":"報告委員 我想我們不是只有在這個財務上面的措施來支持他們我們事實上這一波利用這樣的一個機會來打造我們國內中小微企業的競爭力所以我們是多面的來提升它的競爭力那您剛剛在講說這個匯率的問題主要還是大型跟中型公司它才有做這個出口"},{"start":12067.381,"end":12090.948,"text":"那但是這些大型中型的公司大概佔我們七成的這個出口的部分呢我相信他們對這個匯率避險他們是都有採取這樣的一個方式所以我們真正的比較擔心就像委員所指正的這些比較中小微的企業所以我們有另外一個方法就是對接台灣的這些大型跟中型的企業我們希望他們以大代小"},{"start":12091.688,"end":12108.753,"text":"那盡量來協助我們這個所推動的這樣的一個措施的什麼時候會有具體的我們現在就是在現在一直在進行現在一直在進行因為這面臨的變化是非常的快速我現在透過AI的市產線這個是過去都沒有的做法"},{"start":12108.973,"end":12127.946,"text":"我們現在已經建立了53條市產線來協助這些中小微企業接著到年底之前我們會擴增到100條線然後經濟部當了接手了這個其他的科技大學的這個學校措施以後我們會在學校裡面建立服務業的市產線"},{"start":12129.207,"end":12137.729,"text":"服務業的市產業服務業占台灣七成所以我們會創造那個環境建立那個產業來訓練在職的這個業者也會訓練未來參與這個產業的這個業者我們相信我們一年至少可以幫國內"},{"start":12147.753,"end":12164.392,"text":"從訓練在職的人最起碼有兩萬五千人另外我們會從畢業生裡面在訓練兩萬五千人最少一年我們會提供五萬人在所謂的這個AI的這個環境裡面然後來打造他的競爭力好我再想要請問我們副總裁的目前"},{"start":12169.246,"end":12187.183,"text":"中東的地緣的因素造成了國際能源價格巨幅的波動未來會不會對於我們國內的物價就是CPI造成巨大的影響我們現在目前預估都是"},{"start":12188.064,"end":12199.197,"text":"都是在2以內但是如果未來能源價格的上升我們在高度仰賴能源進口的情況下CPI的情況是如何的"},{"start":12200.011,"end":12221.513,"text":"那個報告委員我們最近也是根據當前的國際油價或者當前的台灣的物價的發展情形我們認為今年下半年那個服務類國內的服務類的價格他還是會持續走低因為也走低了一陣子加上我們預期今年的原油的價格"},{"start":12222.884,"end":12243.762,"text":"即使是目前的資料顯示我們還是認為它會比去年低所以我們整體來講我們下修了我們對今年的物價的預測本來是1.89我們現在是1.81所以我們基本上從目前資料去看我們對今年的整個國內的物價還是覺得它是能夠維持在2%以下"},{"start":12246.128,"end":12266.44,"text":"對可是我認為說在某一些部分像食物類別啦就是外食族群等等的這種的大家對於物價的那種敏銳度CPI的就是還是非常敏感所以在這個部分希望政府在就這個部分還是要做具體的研究好不好我們主席已經站起來了好謝謝"},{"start":12274.372,"end":12277.614,"text":"你來講,還是請黃國昌委員質詢你來謝謝主席,來有請部長郭部長"},{"start":12304.195,"end":12326.292,"text":"委員好部長好高雄大樹違法的光電廠引發了軒然大破高雄那邊很多鄉親也站出來抗議目前媒體上面的報導是經濟部的能源署除了裁罰以外還會廢止它的許可這件事情是真的嗎"},{"start":12327.14,"end":12353.76,"text":"報告委員我們已經在昨天正式的廢止它的許可廢止什麼許可我們也公告了廢止什麼許可?電液醜色許可嗎?廢止它的施工許可施工許可那電液醜色許可呢?本來它就已經失效電液醜色許可早就失效了什麼時候失效的?報告委員"},{"start":12356.246,"end":12357.549,"text":"要委員同意你才可以講話"},{"start":12363.224,"end":12389.378,"text":"那個案子因為他我們酬赦許可通常都會給三年那三年之內他來換施工許可的話那個部分因為已經超過時效所以他那個酬赦就所以現在是施工許可接著電業酬赦許可是不是那現在施工許可已經把他給廢止掉了第二個問題我再請教一下部長就是說他那個107筆的土地是跟我們自來水公司租的嗎"},{"start":12390.689,"end":12416.715,"text":"是的那那個自然水公司那107筆土地一年收到多少錢部長手上有資料嗎我現在手上沒有這個沒有關係那個部長我跟你講齁我現在問的問題你手上沒有資料現在不用回答沒關係會後請經濟部的同仁書面回覆我這樣好嗎是的好第二個問題喔他把這個地搞成這個樣子啊台水要把地收回來嗎"},{"start":12422.14,"end":12441.409,"text":"我想我們會依法依規來處理啦那就請台水回去review一下契約因為我很難想像把東西租給他他可以在上面胡搞瞎搞到這樣子的程度那台水如果什麼事情也沒辦法做地也沒有辦法收回來的話"},{"start":12442.429,"end":12467.355,"text":"那我會覺得有一點殊難想像,那不管怎麼樣部長說的有道理,當然要依法依規做嘛回去review一下,台水跟他之間的契約,該收回來的地就要收回來那這個是我上一次在總質詢的時候,我也問了那時候部長人不在,是由次長代答的那我也直接請教了卓榮泰院長,因為"},{"start":12469.991,"end":12498.277,"text":"台南那一邊 麗陽光電一樣是一個違法的光電廠情節可能跟高雄比起來是有過之無不及那當然這個牽涉到違法的部分檢察官起訴 那就交由檢察官接下來就刑事責任的部分去處理但是就行政責任的部分我要的問題還是一模一樣昨天院長上次跟我講說他要依法處理那請問現在處理到哪裡"},{"start":12502.353,"end":12527.355,"text":"那這個是違法騙到的電業籌舍許可啊我們現在就是就行政在處理上面是是是我的那個當時候負責的署長現在已經調到這個我了解這個人事上面的懲處是應該現在我在講的是這個電業籌舍許可是違法取得的我依照行政程序法的規定應該要撤銷我問了好幾次每次都跟我說要依法處理可以來請"},{"start":12531.226,"end":12559.518,"text":"跟委員報告一下 那個有一些部分就是台南市政府已經查明它的那個原來的那個要件已經喪失的部分那個部分我們已經處理了 但是等一下等一下 先停一下你處理了多少部分詳細的那個數字我們再回報給委員這邊那那個是撤銷電線籌資的許可嗎就是它有一些它要件不符的部分我們就可以撤銷它的一些許可比如說什麼時候撤銷的清單的部分我們再補給委員"},{"start":12560.697,"end":12573.412,"text":"你盡快補好不好我基本上的原則很簡單啦因為如果都是違法的光電廠的話高雄可以廢止沒有道理台南不能夠撤銷嘛"},{"start":12574.773,"end":12600.406,"text":"要不然的話你會讓大家質疑嘛是不是台南這個立陽光電背後後台比較硬啊所以台南市政府縱容經濟部也不處理因為這件事情拖滿久的這件事情真的拖滿久的我已經兩次總質詢問了嘛那依法處理處理到的進度是什麼剛剛有說已經撤銷了部分那撤銷了哪些部分哪些部分還沒有撤銷理由是什麼一樣"},{"start":12601.306,"end":12624.559,"text":"會後麻煩順便回覆好嗎?是的好 第三個問題之前我總職權也問了就是說中國息產地的問題特別是涉及到資訊安全那這是國家安全的問題 知識體大那我們也發現那個深瑞電子之前說什麼"},{"start":12626.004,"end":12641.238,"text":"什麼資安國家隊、安控國家隊結果沒想到我們的安控國家隊國家隊的表現是丟人現眼真的是丟人現眼我們的安控國家隊台灣的安控國家隊在賣中國的貼牌貨在賣中國的貼牌貨"},{"start":12645.88,"end":12669.797,"text":"賣中國的貼牌貨我們資通安全研究院今年四月就說了他的監視主機有連線到中國這牽涉到兩個部分一個是資訊傳輸嚴重違反到資訊安全影響國家安全第二個部分我們的國家隊賣中國的貼牌貨丟人現眼真的是丟人現眼"},{"start":12671.889,"end":12700.999,"text":"我諮詢了以後當天卓榮泰院長很驚訝他顯然沒有掌握狀況然後他說他要兩週內全面去清查清查回來了以後跟經濟部有關係的台電有85台台水122台中油31台台電台水中油全部都是我國的關鍵基礎設施那現在這些東西都拆完了嗎"},{"start":12706.892,"end":12723.577,"text":"報告委員現在這個詳細的數據當然沒有辦法馬上呈現報告給你不過我們有在進行拆除這樣好不好那個部長數字啊您看我的投影片那個數字我整理給你了台電85台 台水122台 中油31台 水利署5台嘛"},{"start":12727.881,"end":12743.73,"text":"那拆這些東西需要時間我理解但這個涉及到資訊安全而且在關鍵基礎設施輕誤不得所以是不是可以拜託經濟部會後會後每一台裝在哪裡"},{"start":12744.87,"end":12772.532,"text":"猜了沒有接下來要廠商負什麼責任有一個完整的回覆好嗎好的因為我現在拿到的回覆就是部長看到的這些我只有幾台幾台那裝在哪裡現在處理的進度到哪裡哪些猜了哪些沒有猜給我一個清楚的列表以及後續要打算怎麼跟廠商主張要求他們負起法律責任會後的資料一併給我可以嗎"},{"start":12773.434,"end":12782.297,"text":"我們會整理資料向您報告需要多久一個禮拜好沒有問題謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝我們現在請楊瓊英委員做詢答謝謝主席楊瓊英發言邀請央行原副總裁"},{"start":12804.465,"end":12830.236,"text":"委員好副總裁好我們看到報導在6月17號那央行為了壓制台幣的升值受益匯銀將出口商的單日拋匯的這個額度從2000萬美元砍到1000萬美元那由銀行來柔性的轉達那引發企業的不滿副總裁你知道這個事情嗎"},{"start":12834.977,"end":12854.786,"text":"那個報告委員因為我們在我們在從外匯管理的角度我們對於那個在升值或貶值幅度很大的時候我們看到產商有一些不合就是跟他們過去行為不一樣的時候我們自然會要求銀行或者是我們會由銀行去跟產商問一下他的原因是怎樣"},{"start":12855.626,"end":12873.112,"text":"这个就是问一下的柔性转达那么引发了企业的不满表示被迫以时间来换取空间来忍受升值的一个损失那我们看到呢我们的NDF报价它是持续在下跌哦"},{"start":12875.073,"end":12890.588,"text":"那表示市場對於台幣的升值呢它的預期仍是非常的強烈那顯見我們目前的政策是只有治標沒有治本同時我們看到外資透過ETF雙向槓桿的操作對鎖呢那規避了資金停留的這個門檻"},{"start":12897.535,"end":12918.575,"text":"但是我們沒有看到央行跟金管會協調控管導致整個資金短進短出那套利無阻導致我們出口商他受限未知的規避無奈讓控會政策是不是淪為形式化所以本席在這邊首先要請教副總裁"},{"start":12920.797,"end":12942.588,"text":"除了對出口商你來獻會之外我們的央行是否你有跟金管會來討論來合作防堵外資利用整個ETF的正惡反一呢來規避你所謂行政措施的七日停留門檻的套利呢請做說明那個報告委員因為"},{"start":12946.377,"end":12968.204,"text":"ETF也是最近這幾年非常興盛的一個其實我們在109年我們就跟金管會達成共識就是說外資來買台灣的那個逆向的反ETF的這種操作的時候我們要求我們和金管會已經有共識就是說他那個外資投入"},{"start":12969.344,"end":12992.434,"text":"持有的那個反向的ETF占ETF的發行量它有一個不得超過百分之三十的限制所以其實我們已經跟金管會有在有建立這樣百分之三十的限制當然也誠如剛剛央行你所說的從109年開始到現在每一個環節每一個情境可以說是訊息萬變"},{"start":12994.235,"end":12996.097,"text":"那我們如果還是維持原來然後出口商的意見已經強烈的表達不滿甚至還有人說國家的整個資金的控管政策只有對內強悍只有對內強硬對外是放任"},{"start":13012.771,"end":13037.687,"text":"我想委員可能誤解了因為其實我們在對外資的監控我們是每天都在監控外資的證券投資的資料所以即使是今年以來我們也看到有一些外資他持續利用剛才委員提到這樣的管道我們也馬上查到以後我們就要求他趕快把錢匯出去所以其實我們並沒有對外公開這樣子的訊息因為我們透過我們監視系統"},{"start":13041.99,"end":13045.354,"text":"隨時在監控所以本席也就將我們出口商的這些的意見提供給央行那央行你從109年到現在我們看到目前的一個狀態那央行是不是應該要跟我們的金管會好好的再去嚴明我們精進的方案"},{"start":13066.593,"end":13071.777,"text":"也協助我們的廠商才不會讓人家覺得對外是放任的對內是控管的這個經濟方案請去研議隨時應對好不好對是是謝謝這個是非常的迫切需要的嘛對不對對好趕快加油接下來本期要請教經濟部"},{"start":13093.08,"end":13114.427,"text":"部長 本期要跟你討論的也就是說我們針對AI的這個部分 本期在昨天 前天也跟你討論甚至連交通的小黃我都謝謝你願意來支援運用我們中小企業的這個資源讓我們的車行可以好好的去提升"},{"start":13115.367,"end":13123.332,"text":"那所以我們看到也就是說6月17號一樣的新聞報導你說經濟部要啟動了這個AI新秀的計畫那針對於應屆畢業青年提供一年期的全額補助的AI應用訓練跟企業的實習非常好我們要強調的是學得會用得上留得住期望能夠打造AI級戰力協助百工百業來落實AI的運用推動整個智慧化的一個轉型"},{"start":13146.328,"end":13167.738,"text":"那在這本集看到目前你們的計畫跟四個學校來做計畫嗎 是嗎目前第一個部分這個是在我看到你的數字是台北大學台北科技大學虎科大跟成功大學嗎這四個學校目前是以這個四個大學為"},{"start":13171.616,"end":13176.218,"text":"第一波啦第一波的還好還好還好還好部長你說第一波因為我們中部地區是整個烏拉烏拉什麼時候烏呢因為中部地區是所有的這個產業的聚落沒有理由不把我們列在第一波嘛"},{"start":13192.546,"end":13209.394,"text":"對不對要有學校他有要啊怎麼會這麼說呢對不對我們現在是這樣就是他學校要有那個設施然後才有辦法來教學因為我們不是只有教學我們必須要席座"},{"start":13210.234,"end":13217.897,"text":"席座非常的重要 中部地區的席座可以說是整個深坡都在中部地區啊你也內行的嘛 對不對所以你跟台北的跟高雄的獨立我們台中當然我給你提出強烈的抗議嘛好"},{"start":13225.88,"end":13234.187,"text":"你這麼說也就是我們中部地區也必須要有請你們相關單位來聯繫很快的來聯繫嘛對不對中部地區我們現在在談的包括大學大學包括環球科大包括中部的這個其他的這個私立的這個科技大學我們都有在談啦但是我們目前有在談所以有在這個這個有一些塑膠中心啊車輛中心啊這些"},{"start":13253.843,"end":13258.067,"text":"技術中心我們都在進行對啊這都在我們中部中區中部地區所以這重要所以某一樓什麼這麼樣子重大我全力給你支持結果沒有我們中部地區有科研區有最重要的產業聚落都在這裡香燒手工機器 工具機器 機械零組件全部都在這裡塑膠也全部都在這裡對不對現在的業界的人"},{"start":13280.866,"end":13288.414,"text":"業界人的提升啊就是靠這一些法人侵購 非常重要對學校的那個要一年以後才能夠 非常重要所以一定要列入中部地區好好去談判好不好 一定有一定喔 這個一定要喔一定要好不好 我看到怎麼只有北部只有高雄沒有我們中部"},{"start":13301.525,"end":13314.209,"text":"因為中部地區現在在整個席座以及生產中心研發中心都是很重要的聚落對不對科技大學所有的大專業項因為都是很重要啊所以我很歡喜聽到你說這是第一波啦你們也在研談喔我給你加油跟鼓勵中部地區"},{"start":13324.193,"end":13340.427,"text":"絕對不能落膽啦這個是非常重要而且最後我可以跟你說最後我們在這個這個訓練跟這個席座的方面我們絕對有信心中部地區一定會大成功這個是非常台灣產業非常重要的關鍵對不對那你要趕快去幫我聯繫去幫我做好對不對好"},{"start":13346.132,"end":13371.498,"text":"謝謝支持你就是去落實所以本期要請教你的這個培訓規模跟制度設計是不是有對症下藥本期認為這個非常的重要既然我們已經有提出這樣子的一個計畫那當然我們必須你的培訓規模跟你的制度設計這個是非常非常的重要那所以本期要請教"},{"start":13372.458,"end":13373.238,"text":"好 報告委員 我們大概一年"},{"start":13397.003,"end":13407.495,"text":"就這一部分這些大學畢業的學生我們大概預計一年希望能夠培養到兩萬人一年要兩萬人兩萬到兩萬五千人這要根據我們的師資還有我們訓練的地方的設置我們不是只讓他們"},{"start":13414.102,"end":13421.506,"text":"你的回答第一個我們一起預計要培養我們畢業應屆畢業生兩萬人這是一個答案非常好訓練後兩年實際留任率你們的評估呢八成八成的評估率轉化企業AI應用的成效你們怎麼樣設置你的具體評估機制因為我們的席座的場域就是模擬實際在運作的這個場域"},{"start":13443.576,"end":13458.462,"text":"所以他沒有這個銜接的落差就等於是無縫接軌以席座就直接在場裡頭他要訓練八個月訓練八個月四個月都要進入到實際的場域去實作學校訓練八個月接下來四個月學習製造的到工廠學習服務業到服務業的場域"},{"start":13472.031,"end":13491.783,"text":"所以本席就具體建議本席非常的支持這樣的方案因為你本來就是要協助我們的產業界產業界各自單打獨鬥不可能本席在你上任的時候我就說你來自企業你了解企業要怎麼做企業的需求所以提出這個方案本席"},{"start":13492.863,"end":13518.882,"text":"這個全力支持 原則上一起我們以兩萬人那麼希望留職留任率在企業裡頭是八成我們希望可以達到這樣所以你們的具體評估機制必須要去嚴明好你也把書面資料一份給本席但是最重要的也就是我們中部地區我們中部地區的學校跟席座的廠家跟我們的研發中心生產力中心金屬生產全部都非常的"},{"start":13522.024,"end":13526.53,"text":"我們現在請何欣淳委員作詢答何欣淳委員不在何欣淳委員不在我們現在請劉淑冰委員作詢答"},{"start":13557.433,"end":13576.459,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那請經濟部 郭部長 郭部長委員好 部長好 那今天來跟您討論關於能源政策的問題請問有"},{"start":13581.28,"end":13582.106,"text":"先暫停一下時間嗎因為還有"},{"start":13590.772,"end":13613.04,"text":"我們看到台灣的這個能源政策我們想要問的是說有沒有符合到IEA就是國際能源總署的三個目標這三個目標就是一個確保能源的供應安全還有競爭力跟環境的永續跟減碳那先請教育部長是您同意到說台灣目前就是要擬定政策的時候是有往這個方向在進行嗎"},{"start":13613.973,"end":13621.372,"text":"我想國際的這樣的一個方向都是我們參考的一個標準好 因為它其實還有因地制宜 尤其是在社能源發展 您同意吧"},{"start":13623.307,"end":13646.046,"text":"對 是的 那我們繼續往下看這個部分呢 就根據到說在5月17號開始進行到停機的時候呢我們看到在河山的這個2號機跟河山2號機在6點的時候呢到晚上到10點多的時候我們把這個資料有做這些截圖那我們後來就發現到呢把這作業整理的情況之下就發現到的是說在那天的這個核能占比呢"},{"start":13646.747,"end":13652.628,"text":"6點多是1.33到1.77這部分然後到了晚上的時候當然是變成0%可是在火力發電可以看到的是它的占比已經從84%變得到到10點鐘之後就已經到達91.12%了那它就發現它總發電量它其實已經在減少但是我們看到天然氣的這個比重已經降到58.24發現這個情況的時候特別我們知道是有時候要恭喜一下就是"},{"start":13674.393,"end":13687.503,"text":"當初台電所設定的目標在天然氣的部分的燃氣是在2030年就達到可是現在在2025年就達到了這要恭喜但是想要請問的是這樣的情況之下火力發電到91.12%到這個天然氣是58.2%但是它有什麼缺點呢想請問部長你認為在這種情況之下天然氣跟火力發電到這樣的情況之下或是說請這個能源署的部分來回答"},{"start":13703.872,"end":13709.483,"text":"這有什麼缺點啊當火力發電到達當天晚上達到91.12%天然氣是58.24%的時候那有什麼缺點呢"},{"start":13715.794,"end":13737.208,"text":"剛才我們已經知道囉電力的發生 電力它必須要符合到的是供應要安全那如果你們還不知道這個答案 我也覺得蠻訝異的齁可能不符合這樣的一個對供應安全如果是到58.24%到未來如果發生到什麼狀況的時候你特別依賴天然氣當然我就想問一個問題再說如果這邊部長跟副署長這邊不能回答嗎"},{"start":13745.407,"end":13772.974,"text":"我請副市長回答一下天然氣當然58.24%它有什麼缺點嗎我在想能源的供應本來就是一個mixing它就是一個混合所以這個基本上就是說燃氣機組它有它的特性比如說像現在我們再生年的量比較多的時候它的反應速度是比較快的所以我在想這個整個能源政策的設計當初其實都考慮到整個長遠國家的發展"},{"start":13775.009,"end":13792.607,"text":"好 那如果這樣我們現在看看這個資料上面可以看到說是在5月17號前天然氣儲備讓國人是我國是在8到18可是國際的標準是30天那整個接收站的負載率是百分之百等於說超安全的百分之70這就是缺點啦這是缺點 那競爭力這部分我們也看一下是在"},{"start":13798.436,"end":13804.441,"text":"是在這個地方它因為用的是 因為核能在所有的你們成本當中它是目前大概是最便宜的之一那我們看到天然氣這部分還包括的是再生能源部分平均價格都是要5點多元那這邊從減核也沒有到最便宜的部分因為減核造成效果所以你的競爭力可能就是不是要用一個適當的價格的部分碳的部分可以看到它的減碳的部分因為它必須要火力發電站增多的部分再加進來"},{"start":13825.017,"end":13844.39,"text":"所以就這樣看起來的話天然氣減核跟碳排這一部分其實是你如果就這樣看的話它要符合供應安全競爭力跟永續發展的狀況嗎報告委員我們在發展綠色能源主要是要因應RE100啦那麼這個需求它需要的是綠色的能源"},{"start":13845.492,"end":13871.244,"text":"那我們當然全力在朝一個2050年零碳的目標在努力那我請問一下核能算不算是零碳的能源啊2030年我們必須要解決綠色能源的問題所以我們現在全力在拉抬把這個部分創造出來但是我們還有一個目的就是要減碳所以我們降燃煤提升燃氣主要是這個樣子快速在轉換"},{"start":13872.712,"end":13901.192,"text":"對 但是你們現在我們遇到的原因就我的觀察這邊你們並沒有針對我剛剛的問題直接回答現在它其實有遇到這樣子的狀況了已經是這樣那我們現在在看到的是遇到中東的問題的情況之下可能更嚴重的情形在往下看的時候這邊我看到的是天然氣現在已經超過到58點多趴了那現在的話是可能還有錢能買得到萬一的時候這部分如果繼續的以一戰爭在持續下去的荷姆斯海峽被"},{"start":13902.247,"end":13928.7,"text":"被封鎖的情況可以看到說未來油價跟天然氣的供應我們35%是在這邊的話是有錢蠻難買到的啊然後另外呢核能的部分因為你現在不夠的這個天然氣的部分等等的因為只有8到15天的情況那這種情況之下被迫就是要用到你剛才有說的還碳的部分沒燒沒可能就要增加進去的我們剛才委員講的是正確的啦我們意思說那一天會58%"},{"start":13930.785,"end":13948.434,"text":"基本上就過去的設計他應該是把那個煤上去啦但是因為我們那個氣比較快所以我們就讓他上去58%但是他不是不是一個平均但是現在呢河母是海峽如果這邊的戰神怎麼辦呢他只是在那個時段有佔到58%"},{"start":13949.955,"end":13968.466,"text":"但是在白天來講的話我們有其他的這個再生能源的運作他白天的時候沒有到同樣的是晚上啊這個問題就出現在晚上我知道但是那只是一段的時間並不能夠而且他主要是因為我們要降排降那個碳排啦但是晚上都沒有碳排嗎會把氣上去嘛"},{"start":13968.926,"end":13986.775,"text":"對 但是晚上的部分因為晚上的部分當然還是有碳嘛我意思是說減碳我們大家都在共同在努力在減碳所以用氣的部分它是最快的可以減碳這樣好 其實更重要的我想要問一下你們在部分的我們現在看到的還有一個重要的問題是減排的這部分你們現在是不是把這個問題放到放到後面後面的這個來解決因為現在可能是事實上有一個缺電的這個問題啊"},{"start":13993.678,"end":14018.391,"text":"那在這個地方的時候呢特別要跟大家講的是這個碳排的你們事實上要減排是要達到是要達到是其實要達到是大概是目前要有好幾兩百多每個人的全部大概是兩百多萬噸的這個二氧化碳的當量這部分那這部分我的資料其實是顯示出來我們到目前的為止以到2020年來說其實到目前還在升高的部分好"},{"start":14020.032,"end":14040.206,"text":"可以了解的是櫃部在這部分台電事實上是還有蠻多的問題因為你要有能源要有這個因為你要有天然氣的部分可是現在的部分的話在天然氣的部分它沒辦法去完成到說"},{"start":14041.147,"end":14068.317,"text":"有可能供應有斷稅 其實以前有些蠻難難道那競爭力這方面並沒有再使用到是一個比較合理的而且現在看 現在重要的是你們有沒有估計到今年的台電虧損會多少如果再用這個價格的話台電虧損有沒有考慮到 會不會或是營運你們是怎麼樣是會贏還是虧呢我想我們都在努力啦 讓台電這個我們事實上如果說沒有借款沒有那麼大的利息的負擔的話我們台電應該是不至於說虧損"},{"start":14070.293,"end":14089.555,"text":"所以你們我們現在最大的問題就是我們借了很多錢然後現在銀行也不再想再繼續借給我們的錢那我們要借更多的錢可能利息要付更高所以我們虧損就更大你們之前已經虧了大概兩三千億嘛那現在這個情況之下今年你認為是說今年還是可能沒有利息那麼高這個問題能夠解決掉就對了"},{"start":14092.237,"end":14113.983,"text":"我們會很努力 但我想委員應該看到我們台電所有的同仁都非常用心很努力的在執行他們的工作任務那我們在這一個部分我想如果讓台電可以在負債裡面更減輕他的這個負擔的話我相信台電會表現得更好"},{"start":14114.923,"end":14124.831,"text":"好 現在看起來是達不到一個 一個說到底你們的虧跟損的部分那你們這邊另外 你們剛才可以跟立法院來做解釋是吧是 我們要 我們請立法院各位大委員能夠同意我們這一次的這個臨時預算 這個緊急預算的這個一千億的撥補啦請委員大力支持在你們請教那個吳副署長"},{"start":14137.802,"end":14158.755,"text":"這一部分關於在淨零碳排的這一部分的時候那你們有沒有每年的這樣子的一個目標因為我現在只看到的是說在2030的部分可是每年的這個淨零碳排的目標其實非常的粗糙並沒有這樣美麗的狀況有報告委員我們大概都有目標對然後我們跟委員報告委員比較關心的可能是那個電力排汽速度不過我們也持續一直在下降"},{"start":14160.405,"end":14176.053,"text":"這就是你們比較 我就不能說是狡猾的部分啦你們都用所謂的排碳的這個電力排碳的密度這部分是用每度去算的可是這種情況之下的時候你的量是增加的時候它導致的情況是還在整個量還是總量在增加你們用這個來去"},{"start":14177.914,"end":14198.308,"text":"來去混這樣的一個情況 事實上是不符合的因為國際間的話 最重要是看到的是你的個人的 還包括是全部的總量 我想這部分的話希望說 再希望在未來我就還繼續追這個話題 我希望是說在能源署這邊呢 能夠做這部分 就淨零碳排的每年的地方 尤其是針對個人跟總量的部分不要只有單單只針對電力排炭係數的這一部分的電力的這邊的這個密度的部分去講 因為這部分是不是一個全時勤的情況"},{"start":14207.754,"end":14207.954,"text":"現在請圖全齊委員做詢答"},{"start":14234.892,"end":14238.839,"text":"好 謝謝主席那請問農業部胡次長胡次長委員好"},{"start":14244.159,"end":14272.929,"text":"市長我想跟你討論一下我們桃園有一個楊梅埔興我們茶蓋廠總廠是那當然我們上週也有看到我們週刊跟媒體的報導那我們前嘉義縣長我們前立委陳明文那個委員那之前我們日前我們經濟委員會有去參加考察那他當時有要求說我們桃園市楊梅區的農業部茶及飲料的改良總廠"},{"start":14274.129,"end":14296.884,"text":"南迁道 嘉乙 樊如香这一部分的问题那我们知道我们查改厂杨梅普新的查改厂它在1902年那时候就设立在我们杨梅普新是我们一个非常重要的产业辅导的机关那我们今天是希望说了解一下这超过120年历史地方查"},{"start":14298.993,"end":14323.231,"text":"農業傳承研發的重心那針對這部分之前其實早在2.21年的時候就有聽說廢北南遷的這個提案可是後來因為地方反彈而且他裡面很多都是我們陽梅平鎮中壢周邊在地的員工在那邊那時候也也說有規劃是單一總廠雙軸廠域那而且說"},{"start":14327.094,"end":14343.051,"text":"不會廢了我們楊梅普欣這個查改總廠那不知道現在政策方向是怎麼樣就如同委員所關心的目前也是行政院就是做這樣的指示所以我們確定目前都沒有"},{"start":14344.025,"end":14369.431,"text":"南遷的這個問題目前沒有目前都沒有所以還是秉持我們單一種場雙軸場域的方式喔對好因為我們今天要釐清喔因為這個其實早在2021年的時候就提過那現在又爆發這個事情那所以我們在地的很多的鄉親喔其實從上到桃園市府下到地方基層大家都非常關心希望了解一下我們"},{"start":14370.091,"end":14386.962,"text":"我們中央這個的立場是 謝謝委員的關心事實上關心的行政院也就是這樣指示我們來進行往後的相關的流程好 所以這個立場沒有改變目前不會有廢種場的問題不會好 那我接下來問一下關於我們廚餘養豬場要裝設及時監視錄影系統"},{"start":14393.846,"end":14421.882,"text":"那在去年8月27號那時候因為非洲豬瘟我們中央災害應變中心在31次會議的時候我們陳俊濟部長那時候有要求環境部環管署要研議將現有435間的養豬場在珍珠設施周邊要裝設即時監控影像系統的可行性請問一下市長知不知道有沒有這個事情"},{"start":14422.242,"end":14433.112,"text":"有 我們現在已經在全台裝設了434場那我們今天下午是不是針對我們廚藥養豬場裝設及時錄影監視系統要開一個協商會議是 這個是由環境部召開那我們也會參加"},{"start":14441.701,"end":14468.26,"text":"那針對這部分因為這個主動發起是農業部嘛農業部希望環境部去做這部分裝這個即時監控系統那我想了解一下那我們農業部有沒有給環境部監管手段必要性的說明或者報告在過程當中我們一直在溝通協調聯繫所以這個沒有問題那針對這個必要性沒有提出這個相關報告嗎"},{"start":14471.434,"end":14493.195,"text":"就是監管手段必要性有沒有給環境部相關的說明或這一方面的報告是這個資料在環境部有因為我們有請環境部評估所以相關的報告環境部可以有這樣的資料因為我剛剛詢問環境部他是說因為農業部沒有給他這個相關的報告所以針對這個必要性"},{"start":14494.455,"end":14512.295,"text":"可能不夠明確所以如果這個必要性不夠明確我不知道環境部要怎麼樣子去說服我們的豬農要去花那麼多的錢去做這個即時監控錄影的系統事實上已經有434場已經設了那這個環境評估報告我們也請他們"},{"start":14515.103,"end":14537.516,"text":"那如果他們目前還沒有完成的話其實我們會再跟他們可是現在豬農反映就是你們今天開這個協商會議將來就是要強制要他們去裝設一些這些裡面的系統像及時的監測還有溫度的監測及時而且要及時錄影回傳"},{"start":14539.085,"end":14560.136,"text":"這些部分好像硬體設施好像要他們豬農去馬上要去做這一部分而且是強制性喔是 這一些本來環境部就已經有裝設啦那要求如果還沒有裝設的話是做相關的要求因為會這一些如果沒有來進行監控的話可能會影響到非洲豬瘟"},{"start":14561.394,"end":14572.596,"text":"或者是相關的這個因為我們已經是全世界非常著名了我們包括口蹄疫包括我們一般的豬瘟跟灰灼豬瘟我們現在是清淨國所以我們很怕市長我跟您報告因為這個你們現在就是要豬農去強制去裝設即時監測設備還有即時的溫度監測設備而且要把這些監控的資訊要馬上即時回傳給環保機關當然我們知道這個防疫"},{"start":14590.9,"end":14612.542,"text":"當然是要做而且我們也非常注重我們也支持防疫當然要做得好可是現在豬農在反映問題如果這些東西要求他們去做的話勢必這些硬體的設備會增加他們非常多的成本而且這繁瑣的程序它整個成本會提高很多是 我們已經有編列預算要進行補助"},{"start":14613.563,"end":14617.425,"text":"所以那我們就講重點所以我們針對這硬體的設備我們農業部應該有相關的配套跟補助的辦法沒有錯 謝謝委員的關心所以我們也希望我們政府還是要照顧這些豬農不然它這些成本的上升畢竟絕對會讓這個豬價又上漲"},{"start":14631.693,"end":14659.727,"text":"一定將來還是加租在我們的消費者身上是是是沒有錯好希望農業部當然我們防疫工作能夠做得更好但是我們這個豬價的部分也要幫我們注意是一直我們都在監控對因為這個豬農也在反映消費者也會關心這個豬價一直上漲的問題是沒有錯謝謝委員好感謝市長謝謝好謝謝現在請牛許廷委員做詢答牛許廷委員不在牛許廷委員不在現在請徐欣穎委員做詢答"},{"start":14668.665,"end":14672.027,"text":"謝謝主席 本席有請農業部這個胡市長委員好市長好本席前面有先兩題是針對今天的議題那我們針對國際能源價格上漲我們在報告中農業部今天的報告中提出要推綠能是"},{"start":14695.064,"end":14715.806,"text":"但实际上我们地方上的农民常遇到申请设置太阳能或早期的系统时卡在法规或资金的门槛所以本席想请教部长目前农业部有没有协助地方成立所谓的微电网或是分散式能源区你们有没有在这样做"},{"start":14717.065,"end":14731.717,"text":"婚善室那個問題其實我們是讓去輔導這些光電業者來承租農地那他們用合法的方式所以你們是輔導光電業者農民他們出租出去的時候跟他們說明要怎麼樣才能夠合法所以農民只是用出租的方式"},{"start":14738.724,"end":14764.255,"text":"因為經費相當的龐大可是有些農民他可能他不是只有出租啊他農業的用電需求也不少啊他們也可以自己看怎麼怎麼樣價或怎麼樣採購之後然後我們可以他可以自己自足多的他也可以看政府是不是可以有收購保證還有相關的貸款制度協助農民貸款有"},{"start":14765.495,"end":14793.385,"text":"那收購是我們台電公司收購的所以一般有規定相關的每一度要收多少錢這個都是我們跟經濟部一起合作收購有農民也是那現在想請教有沒有在推動協助農民我現在主體是農民農村能源轉型的這種共同體你們有沒有在推動包含找農會找在地的企業共同設置"},{"start":14794.545,"end":14806.908,"text":"然後沒有這個我們在那可以協助啊因為農民他自己也用電不少種花的或者是有的他也很多都需要用電啊這一塊你們是不是應該要想一想"},{"start":14808.236,"end":14832.805,"text":"這個基本上我們是以農業輔導為主啦如果他有能源方面因為是農業為本綠能加值所以我們是在輔導他的生產你輔導他的生產但是他生產的過程他也會用電然後我看部長也很關心很仔細在聽我們這一題是因為能源的部分其實主管機關是經濟部能源局那我們是主要是輔導農業部長針對這個有"},{"start":14835.126,"end":14842.134,"text":"有補充意見是不是報告委員這個我想是市場機制市場的機制也就是說現在的農戶他用的電"},{"start":14846.463,"end":14872.838,"text":"比他發的電便宜啦所以他就不會自己去發電啦如果我們今天的電反映了所有的成本那這個農民呢他們就會自己發電但是問題是因為我們的成本很多所以他乾脆直接用電就好他也不需要進行這些啦對 因為他用我們台電的電比較便宜啦然後他賣給我們台電的電可能就比較沒有辦法收割部長請回座 接著次長繼續"},{"start":14874.179,"end":14899.621,"text":"那有關智慧農業的部分我們農業部有沒有要導入所謂的AI或大數據我們一直都在做一直都在做好那我們從農民那邊聽到因為你們一直在做我也去問農民反應看不懂用不起維修難所以我不太知道現在智慧農業我們農業部有你實際導入成功的你到底有幾戶"},{"start":14901.543,"end":14929.521,"text":"因为这个设施农业方面在园艺方面设施农业方面用的很多你说在什么园艺啊园艺或者是设施农业就用的很多设施就是它有温室里面还有智慧智能型的这些自动喷洒所以已经用很多了那是不是所以对他们来说你们有没有专人辅导或者是有区域场域共用的服务平台"},{"start":14929.861,"end":14956.879,"text":"我們有試驗改良場所在全台灣各試驗改良場所我們都有推廣中心推廣人員還有我們的相關的農業研發技術的這些專家所以我們希望不是只有你說的那幾個面向有導入智慧農業好不好你剛跟我講幾個面向但那些好像我們新竹縣都比較不是那方面的農業所以我們希望你們還可以繼續努力好不好"},{"start":14957.199,"end":14980.516,"text":"是是是智慧农业那最后最后本席来自新竹县新竹县过去是农业大县但后来竹北发展你们知道竹北的高铁区整个所以有都会有农业所以我们不仅有农业我们还领海所以我们农渔其实您应该了解都非常发展的很好所以"},{"start":14980.996,"end":15008.541,"text":"但是新竹縣這麼多年來沒有農漁產銷中心可不可以全力支持我們農漁產銷中心其實在新竹縣我們一直在輔導新農民市場我知道新農民市場有我們農會都做得很好但是我們需要一個農漁產銷中心包含帶動整個的我們西部的觀光因為我們整個農業大縣這個部分我們正在推動可不可以請我們農業部來支持好嗎"},{"start":15009.241,"end":15034.616,"text":"好 我們來跟縣政府來 一起來評估看看還有當地的農漁會支持啊 不是評估 我們已經在推動了 請你支持嘛我們是長期在輔導各個農會去成立農民指消站這新農民市場我們知道 但我們這個農漁產銷中心它還兼顧整個的產銷和觀光整個地方非常需要啊是 這個全力來支持一下好不好可以啦"},{"start":15036.657,"end":15041.099,"text":"我們現在請葉元芝委員做詢答主席好 馬上請經濟部長 郭部長"},{"start":15070.014,"end":15096.951,"text":"委員好部長好昨天你有提到禮拜一有提到說2026年綠電20%是一定可以達標對不對但我們都知道說現在光電確實是發展遇到阻礙然後您是有提到說可以透過光電水力或地熱來補但我們的了解就是水力跟地熱實際上發展應該只能補一部分一小部分主要您可能還是把既往放在風電但風電的部分您真的那麼樂觀嗎"},{"start":15098.112,"end":15107.05,"text":"因為我的了解是好像今年跟去年外資都走了一批嘛所以你的那個底氣就風電你覺得可以發展的底氣來自於哪裡"},{"start":15108.891,"end":15131.259,"text":"我們大概有盤過這個所有的供應那麼我們也在最近希望把這個原來計畫的這個33能夠提早讓我們如果能夠提早然後第二個我們獎勵現在在施作31 32的廠商我們建議他能夠提早來on grid來供電"},{"start":15132.139,"end":15147.609,"text":"那麼最提早他進度的部分我們給予一些獎勵所以兩個部分嘛第一個你33要提前嘛但好像3-3會用到一些比如說3-1 3-2大家不要用的場域那些場域呢規模都是比較小的"},{"start":15148.311,"end":15158.559,"text":"所以這個部分開發商願不願意進駐這是一個很大的問題那第二個問題就是您說會提供一些獎勵讓他們提早問題是獎勵是什麼我們獎勵就是對現有的廠商都是適用什麼獎勵怎麼樣的獎勵我們的獎勵嘛看他什麼時候可以供電嘛所以會獎勵什麼"},{"start":15170.678,"end":15181.189,"text":"獎勵什麼你說我會給你獎勵那你總是要說是譬如說給錢還是什麼獎勵嘛你要一個具體東西嘛獎勵就是說當他我們可以幫他購買這個他的店"},{"start":15184.02,"end":15202.35,"text":"幫他購買他的店因為這個基本上3-1 3-2來講對他們來講他們是零元的存購他主要是要賣給民間但是我們可以透過獎勵制度我們台電可以收購"},{"start":15203.931,"end":15219.601,"text":"我覺得那個部長因為都講得很模糊啦那很模糊就是說人家要知道說有什麼具體的獎勵這是第一件事情第二件事我剛剛提到的這也是提醒啦就是說你的場域三十三場域很多是規模很小的人家不見得會願意進駐嘛"},{"start":15220.987,"end":15249.219,"text":"所以你的樂觀我不知道是建立在什麼樣基礎底下就確定說我們對所有的環境都非常的清楚所以我們認為我們經過整理以後我們可以吸引到這個是部長您都講的比較話都比較滿但是實際上是真的是這樣我們保留然後謝謝委員的提醒再來就是如果我們國內的發展瓶頸因為您之前也提到就是說可以去菲律賓買店"},{"start":15250.64,"end":15261.838,"text":"那菲律賓重電運回來光經濟部就有兩個版本的說法三月份的時候那時候講說電池船不含發電成本運輸就是5.5元那是三月份講的"},{"start":15262.762,"end":15289.022,"text":"五月份的時候又說他重電運回來成本只要四塊然後加上台電的輸配的成本大概一度是五塊這是五月份講的那我不曉得說你現在您對於這個菲律賓重電然後運回來這件事情有沒有新的說法還有他的進度是什麼我們現在先考慮在國內這邊的發展所以菲律賓是以現在就不考慮了"},{"start":15291.161,"end":15306.454,"text":"菲律賓要看那個市場的這個需求不是啦 部長這個菲律賓這個是你自己去年提出來的嘛那時候大家在這個委員會還花很多時間討論嘛結果三月份講了一個說法五月份講了一個說法那今天是快六月底了"},{"start":15307.214,"end":15321.404,"text":"問你 你又說我們不考慮了我們還是以國內為主我沒有說不考慮啦對 那就是具體來說這個計畫是什麼時候要實施嘛它到底它的購電成本是多少嘛因為不能夠每一個過兩個月都講得不一樣啊"},{"start":15322.423,"end":15337.846,"text":"所以到底具體來說是怎樣這只是我們的計畫嘛計畫都可以討論嘛可以update嘛對不對根據環境的需求我今天到這個你們都講嘛說我為什麼要到菲律賓去然後你講的你們也不是很清楚嘛"},{"start":15338.326,"end":15364.231,"text":"那我說我要來報告這個部分菲律賓這個部分呢這個也不是我們的這個經濟部的重點嘛我們經濟部的重點就是滿足國內的用電需求然後我能夠在2040年的時候把再生能源提升到30%問題部長現在的問題就是你看喔你光是講一個菲律賓重電你的說法就一直在改變然後之前提出的構想大家請你來報告然後現在你又講說"},{"start":15366.091,"end":15386.3,"text":"我們暫時不考慮那就是會讓大家覺得你講話比較偏向信口開河對於你講話的信任度會打折扣經濟部長應該一言九鼎講出來的話應該就是要嘛就是計畫一部分要嘛就是說會具體朝向那個目標"},{"start":15386.98,"end":15406.662,"text":"但是話每次講出來都變來變去然後一下這樣一下那樣那因為你這麼講所以我現在就不跟你討論這個菲律賓這件事這個不是我討論的問題啊是你今天大家會懷疑所以問你嘛會質疑嘛那你要來報告你要說明嘛具體怎麼樣啊你現在又說因為我這樣所以你就不跟我討論有那麼傲慢的部長嗎"},{"start":15408.043,"end":15433.43,"text":"有那麼傲慢嗎今天從頭到尾菲律賓重電都是您本人提出來的嘛所以那時候經濟委員會也有討論過嘛那現在我只是在問進度而已那時候經濟部還做了一個薩爾奇是做一個報告叫做什麼台菲的那個電力合作評估報告我引用的也是你報告的內容三月份的然後五月份你接受媒體訪問又有一個新的說法那又再過了兩個月問你最新的進度然後你說怎麼樣我不跟你講"},{"start":15434.554,"end":15457.683,"text":"有這麼傲慢的部長嗎這個叫做傲慢的話那我當然啊不是現在你講的東西大家問你進度而且這是攸關台灣能源的欸我今天不是在問你私人的問題欸我沒有問你什麼從業那些私人沒有我現在關心的是我們能源的政策欸然後你是部長你說欸我不跟你講我不是說我不跟你講我沒有講不跟你講這是你講那你剛剛怎麼說的"},{"start":15459.373,"end":15484.326,"text":"你剛剛怎麼說的我說這個問題我們現在不討論我不是不跟你講為什麼這個問題不討論那之前你來這邊報告了一兩次都是浪費時間嗎好 議委員你如果認為有需要我可以排這個然後我們讓他我沒有說有需要我現在只是在問這個進度而已我們就排這個專案報告我只是問這個進度而已那部長 從頭到尾這件事情都是您提出來的"},{"start":15485.146,"end":15513.415,"text":"只是在問進度那大家為什麼會關心能源就是因為很多點讓大家擔心說會有缺電的問題這也都是國人關心的那部長本來就應該回答跟解決啊是啊 我只是說在現在我們在找你如果需要的話我們可以跟你順便報告主席 那我還可以繼續問嗎那跟你請教別的問題啦那個我們現在假設"},{"start":15515.134,"end":15532.415,"text":"現在第一個菲律賓的光電是本來你提出來說可以補足台灣這個用電缺口的一塊嘛另外一個是我們接下來是不是要跟我看那個中油要跟那個阿拉斯加公司要簽一個天然氣開採的備忘錄嘛 我跟你請教一下這個問題"},{"start":15534.191,"end":15547.18,"text":"根據那個總統府秘書長潘孟安的說法是非常願意加入這個開發案但我看其他國家比如說日本日本國內對這個是質疑很多啦有幾件事情第一個他們認為這個開採成本會很高"},{"start":15549.315,"end":15572.339,"text":"第二他們覺得這會破壞生態所以有很多他們的團體寫信給日本的首相說不要參加然後有保險公司也說不要承保而且叫銀行不要融資所以日本國內對參加美國天然氣的這個開發案是有疑慮的我想問一下我們經濟部的態度我們參加這個是怎麼樣"},{"start":15573.479,"end":15598.928,"text":"我們參加的話這個是會根據我們中油的這個評估報告值得參加我們才會參加所以現在是覺得值得參加嗎以我們現在這個跟他簽的MOU我們現在還在持續溝通中所以到目前為止還不確定是值得參加還是不值得參加是嗎那現在考量的點是什麼就是要參加有什麼好處不參加又有什麼考慮"},{"start":15601.341,"end":15623.688,"text":"參加不參加我想就基於專業的考量跟市場的機制阿拉斯加送天然氣跟油到我們這裡在交通上面在安全上面有充分的優勢如果說我們考慮到成本如果這個成本綜合成本比我們從其他的地區買來的油氣要低的話我們就會參加"},{"start":15627.352,"end":15651.714,"text":"你說只要跟美國買這個油氣比其他的地方成本低我們就會參加但是如果說跟美國買比其他國家比如說比澳洲比中東貴我們就不參加是這個意思嗎所以現在還在評估這個成本我們整體在評估這個總成本所以不見得一定會參加美國阿拉斯加天然氣的開發案聽起來是這樣我們希望說這個部分可以公開透明"},{"start":15652.395,"end":15667.353,"text":"因為這個參加阿拉斯加這個案子在日本其實大家都是很充分討論的但是在我們國內都沒有充分討論所以大家並不了解政府在做決策的時候考慮的點是什麼並沒有讓大家可以參與這個討論希望可以公開透明在這件事情上面"},{"start":15668.83,"end":15692.188,"text":"部長可以嗎?中油是公司啦中油是公司啦 國營企業會在這個董事會裡面充分的討論所有的董事都會呈他自己的如果你說中油是公司 都由公司來決定的話那為什麼我們總統府秘書長他可以公開講說台灣很樂於參加這個開發案啊不是公司嗎?為什麼是由總統府秘書長來宣布?"},{"start":15693.249,"end":15703.927,"text":"所以這本來就是公共政策的問題嘛希望可以公開透明啦因為在其他國家都沒有什麼不能對社會大眾講的在我們國家做什麼事情好像都很怕人家知道"},{"start":15704.878,"end":15728.991,"text":"但大家知道不是說 大家都是希望為了國家好如果政府可以提出一個說服大家的理由當然去參加 而不是說我們有評估評估好我們就參加 不好我們就不參加是 謝謝委員那所以可以 這個部分可以公開嗎環境是不一樣啦 你指的是日本對我說日本但是我們是台灣啦對啊 那為什麼日本可以我們不可以咧很多日本可以台灣不可以的事情"},{"start":15730.419,"end":15747.112,"text":"那這件事情為什麼日本可以台灣不可以因為日本他今天在要怎麼做他不是我們台灣的範本嘛當然日本要怎麼做不是我們辦法我們是說大家都一樣嘛都是要參加這個開發案別人做法是這樣我們做法卻不是這樣差別在哪嘛"},{"start":15747.932,"end":15761.308,"text":"部長我今天不是來跟你耍嘴皮子啦我們關心的是能源的問題這也是國人關心的啦是所以希望你可以誠懇的跟大家做說明啦不要用這一種態度啦報告委員我想我們希望的是專家討論啦"},{"start":15765.013,"end":15784.193,"text":"那你要廣納所有的事情,不是你自定居民的事情我想有很多的事情,你把專業的事情做成政治的考慮我認為這一點我現在也是請你報告專業的事情,我沒有講任何政治的考慮成本考量是政治嗎?"},{"start":15785.074,"end":15813.641,"text":"沒有喔 不要扣帽子喔沒有啊 你剛才講說日本怎麼樣怎麼樣所以我們台灣就要怎麼樣怎麼樣日本也是用專家啊日本的專家他們也是用成本啊 生態啊 環保啊這些角度啊所以我剛才回答你也是我們按照你剛才所講的那你又沒有講啊你就從頭到尾就沒有講說你是怎麼考慮的嘛啊我只是說可不可以公開說明你可以讓更多專家參與嘛我剛才說明很清楚我們也是專門考慮啊你完全都沒有講什麼內容我講的話你根本就不聽嘛沒有 我都有在聽你就沒有講內容嘛"},{"start":15815.08,"end":15824.915,"text":"我一直想聽你自己要聽的我沒有想要聽什麼謝謝大家我們現在就休息好不好不是休息啊 結束了好 謝謝"},{"start":15828.385,"end":15853.313,"text":"那登記發言委員除不在場外其餘經理發言完畢 詢答結束委員蔡易瑜 呂毅林 邱毅英 牛許廷所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內書面答覆並複製本會本日議程處理完畢散會"},{"start":15863.949,"end":15865.531,"text":"稍微不好意思"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}