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請稅務發展部盡數以書面答覆 散會宣讀完畢好 現在宣讀完畢 那現在我們來介紹我們本會委員李坤哲委員好 我們列席官員 交通部陳士凱部長"},{"start":1958.769,"end":1965.114,"text":"人事處陳崑岩處長陸正獅師長黃應貴師長綜合規劃師張垂龍師長供應師胡富師長鐵道局楊振軍局長觀光署黃世芳副署長"},{"start":1989.65,"end":2005.015,"text":"台灣鐵路公司鄭光炎董事長台灣高鐵公司史澤董事長好現在我們就進行"},{"start":2006.523,"end":2027.69,"text":"本日會議進行交通部台鐵公司及台灣高鐵公司人事調整及新任首長之業務展望的專案報告因觀光署新任署長尚未到職"},{"start":2028.57,"end":2048.517,"text":"所以本日會議就先請起議所長報告及變形那觀光署再另行則起來排案所以現在我們請各所長來報告現在請交通部的陳士凱部長來做報告"},{"start":2057.079,"end":2079.822,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士先生今天應邀致貴委員會就交通部觀光署國營台灣鐵路股份有限公司以及台灣高鐵股份有限公司人事調整及新任首長之業務展望進行專題報告請說明如後敬請各位委員指教"},{"start":2081.564,"end":2100.823,"text":"人事調整的概況在台鐵公司以及高鐵公司以及總的董事長以及總經理都是依據行政院相關的規定由本部簽請行政院核可有關本部報請行政院核派人選的學經歷簡要說明如下"},{"start":2101.744,"end":2127.15,"text":"台鐵公司新任鄭光源董事長國立交通大學交通運輸研究所博士曾任長榮集團義大利海運副董事長長榮以及利榮航空董事長高鐵公司董事長等職現任馮輝升總經理國立台灣大學土木工程學系碩士前任職於"},{"start":2127.91,"end":2143.584,"text":"在公司化之前的原台灣鐵路管理局副局長職務鄭董事長以及馮總經理今114年6月16日台鐵公司董事會選任以及委任"},{"start":2144.585,"end":2155.209,"text":"高鐵公司新任史哲董事長東海大學資訊科學學系畢業曾任台中縣政府秘書行政院勞委會勞工委員會勞保局總經理"},{"start":2160.236,"end":2176.808,"text":"高雄市政府新聞處處長、文化局局長、副市長、文化部部長以及行政院政務委員等職務新任陳惠譽總經理國立中山大學管理學院高階經營碩士"},{"start":2178.843,"end":2204.792,"text":"自高鐵成立初期就加入高鐵從基層做起經歷維修部技術管理科工程技術部廠站以及設施部維修處等等多個重要的單位史哲董事長以及陳總經理經114年6月13日高鐵公司董事會選任以及委任"},{"start":2205.97,"end":2225.328,"text":"本部將持續關注各項業務的發展提供國人以及旅客更優質的運輸服務接下來由台鐵公司鄭董事長以及高鐵公司石董事長就各公司未來業務展望接續個別報告敬請各位委員會與指教"},{"start":2228.035,"end":2244.55,"text":"好 謝謝我們陳世凱部長現在請鐵道級楊振軍局長來報告振軍有沒有沒有 好那現在請台鐵公司鄭光炎董事長來報告"},{"start":2255.65,"end":2265.217,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士先生大家早安今天應邀至貴委員會就交通部觀光署"},{"start":2266.343,"end":2285.809,"text":"台鐵公司及高鐵公司人事調整及新任所長的業務展望進行專題報告僅說明如後 敬請各位委員支持指教本人上任後主要任務以旅客的需求為導向希望努力來達成"},{"start":2287.602,"end":2305.461,"text":"安全準點與便捷三大目標持續以安全穩定為基礎來營造友善的職場提升決策品質與加速財務改革邁向公司的永續經營逐步實現轉虧為盈的目標"},{"start":2309.005,"end":2332.05,"text":"在安全方面我們要持續推動安全管理系統與第三方的評鑑逐步來建立安全第一的組織文化未來也會導入更多激勵跟制度化的措施目標是實現零公安制度 零重大行車事故在準點方面"},{"start":2332.944,"end":2336.209,"text":"海鐵公司定期召開霧點改善小組會議會針對車輛後製"},{"start":2341.158,"end":2364.351,"text":"便利等可控的因素呢來提出改善的策略並持續追蹤確保列車準時到站穩定運行在便捷方面我們正在更新前線的列車資訊顯示系統那麼提供更即時更清楚的旅運的資訊"},{"start":2365.732,"end":2381.638,"text":"此外也會持續來優化我們的票務服務系統包括手機的取票一機多票功能等讓親子同行或者照顧旅客的需求都能夠被照顧到"},{"start":2382.718,"end":2397.795,"text":"今年6月26號開始我們會實施年度的改點其中我們總共調整386車次預期可以有效來提升"},{"start":2399.056,"end":2411.665,"text":"北中區間車的運能未來我們也將持續來導入智慧化的排班系統透過大數據分析來優化我們的行車計畫"},{"start":2413.769,"end":2434.42,"text":"我們也會與高鐵公路局合作在連駕或者事故期間啟動運具聯防加強應變輸運的運能那在廠站方面我們也會持續來改善照明後車空間以公共廁所來推動地方創生發展鐵道經濟"},{"start":2437.802,"end":2458.354,"text":"同時我們也持續將與旅遊業者進行異業合作推出台鐵架騎的產品提供一站式的服務也會配合地方的各種大型活動來加開列車以便促進地方的觀光以及在地的經濟"},{"start":2459.892,"end":2481.663,"text":"台鐵公司將全力來透過安全準點便捷優質服務的提供那麼以便來提升旅客的滿意度增加大眾來搭乘的意願提高旅運量進而提升我們公司的旅運收入在營造友善職場方面"},{"start":2482.608,"end":2505.527,"text":"我們會以目標管理以及績效考核作為核心建立合理的升遷制度以及轉調制度同時會來持續檢討員工的待遇加速招募與培訓提升人力的穩定跟營運的效能在員工福利方面"},{"start":2507.145,"end":2525.921,"text":"公司自去年成立以來已經提撥了一定金額成立了職工福利的基金那麼我們會持續來提高這個節慶的禮金以及保險的補助和健檢的補助等十指的福利"},{"start":2527.802,"end":2546.233,"text":"那麼同時我們也逐步來改善辦公跟執勤的空間並且設立員工托育中心讓同仁能夠兼顧工作與家庭在提升公司的決策品質方面我們將強化"},{"start":2550.444,"end":2577.722,"text":"中南東市區的分區治理整合轄區內各單位的職能加強橫向的溝通與協調依照區域的特性來推動務實的策略並且全面來導入成敗有責的當者文化各單位會明確的設定目標以及可衡量的成果"},{"start":2578.803,"end":2586.637,"text":"我們也鼓勵員工來積極參與主動建言提升同仁的認同感與榮譽感"},{"start":2588.601,"end":2607.099,"text":"在加速財務改革方面目前公司已經成立財務改革專案的小組持續嚴密開源節流的措施並且透過車站空間創收小組以及商品開發小組來拓展資產開發"},{"start":2610.282,"end":2637.823,"text":"活化车站的商业空间发展自由品牌提升副业的营收以及整体的财务体质此外我们也将本业跟副业并重善用环岛路网跟各地的土地资源来强化铁路事业在国家与地方上做个连结追求共荣与永续发展"},{"start":2638.769,"end":2655.979,"text":"那麼在配合新票價實施以後我們會增加現金流促進財務的健全達到預定的公司財務目標也就是在115年能夠達到實現我們的現金流轉正在117年能夠轉寬轉虧為盈的這個目標最後我們對未來的展望"},{"start":2668.865,"end":2685.991,"text":"台鐵公司將以旅客需求為導向努力來達成安全準點與便捷三大目標我們期許建立一個讓同仁願意上班也願意開心下班的快樂職場"},{"start":2688.132,"end":2714.779,"text":"讓員工沒有後顧之憂專注為旅客提供優質的服務並且能夠透過各項制度的改善優化讓台鐵能更加符合社會各界的期許那麼從此旅客們對台鐵的信心找回台鐵人對於自己的光榮感以上報告敬請各位委員支持指教謝謝"},{"start":2717.108,"end":2725.545,"text":"好 謝謝我們台鐵公司的鄭光炎董事長現在請台灣高鐵公司的史哲董事長報告"},{"start":2739.566,"end":2763.615,"text":"來主席各位委員各位女士各位先生今天非常榮幸應邀至貴委員會就交通部公安署台鐵公司及高鐵公司人事調整及新任首長之業務展望進行報告我將從台灣高鐵的經營績效與業務展望說明我未來計畫推動的方向也敬請各位委員給予指教"},{"start":2765.041,"end":2770.208,"text":"臺灣高鐵自通車至今超過18年2024年每日平均運量21萬4萬人次較2023年成長約7%帶動營收同比年成長約7%"},{"start":2782.023,"end":2800.03,"text":"觀察近期市場需求易後運量反彈的力量已經漸漸趨緩今年一到五月的運量增率約大概3.4和我們的預期值相近臺灣高鐵為了加強服務旅客經滾動式檢討各時段的需求情形"},{"start":2801.411,"end":2823.341,"text":"自今年7月1號起 每週常態班次將增開25班次每週總開行班次將達1128班次預計第4季也因旅運的高峰規劃短期的增開展望未來 台灣高鐵即將通車屆20週年我在此特別提出迎接高鐵20年推動高鐵2.0"},{"start":2825.962,"end":2839.66,"text":"作為公司階段性的業務目標希望透過高鐵2.0的推動跟落實帶給旅客嶄新的高鐵的體驗如同高鐵通車之初大家的經驗跟感動而高鐵2.0將連結高鐵公司具體的發展策略及業務計畫"},{"start":2844.686,"end":2871.522,"text":"將從六大面向進行擴充跟延伸包括第一引進新世代列車帶動全面服務的升級因應旅運需求的成長我們除了新購列車配合擴建基地廠房外更將針對車站和既有列車的設施跟設備進行升級改善因應高齡化社會的變遷跟旅客對服務有更多的期待目前已經設計規劃的軟硬體改善工程包括增設"},{"start":2873.334,"end":2894.482,"text":"車站月台門車站電梯的更生車站廁所554改善以及車站各公共公車月台的調整等等也因此針對個別車站的特殊設計如新竹站月台加裝遮雨等等至於在列車上的改善近期將陸續完成列車洗手間改善及列車旅客資訊系統的汰換等等"},{"start":2896.463,"end":2919.233,"text":"第二因應極端氣候強化高鐵的韌性氣候變春的衝擊已經日益加劇而運輸業可謂首當其衝因此臺灣高鐵將持續加強邊坡隧道橋樑等基礎設施的韌性透過建立預警機制確保營運的安全讓旅客安心乘車第三加速數位轉型打造智慧高鐵"},{"start":2920.313,"end":2938.736,"text":"台灣高鐵希望透過實現智慧運輸為旅客打造更多元更便利的乘車體驗我們將要建置新世代的定位票務服務系統同時推動各種票證優惠券朝向無紙化的目標前進不只方便旅客同時用手機即可購買使用更落實節能減碳"},{"start":2940.057,"end":2956.372,"text":"未來還會整合台灣高鐵交通行動服務平臺透過整合多特多的旅程資訊服務方便旅客行程規劃從中掌握旅客的需求並希望這個平臺能夠跟行銷會進一步結合第四 攜手本土廠商"},{"start":2957.293,"end":2976.093,"text":"提升產業的實力過去台灣高鐵在軌道工程本土化方面已經取得相當的成果未來也將持續與在地廠商合作進行技術跟設備開發同時透過與政府研究案及大專業銷的合作積極導入在地採購的策略例如我們目前進行中的"},{"start":2977.995,"end":3004.475,"text":"電車線維修工程車等以及變電站控制系統汰換等等這都是本土化的案例第五 落實環境有序 優化職場環境因應國際對氣候變遷的關注並回應政府2050年近臨的承諾臺灣高鐵已經完成溫室氣體排放的盤查外在車上服務品也大幅減少一次性的塑膠用品落實綠色採購 汰換耗能設施等等落實環境有序的目標"},{"start":3005.356,"end":3023.927,"text":"同時也持續優化空間及設施職場環境永續關懷的觸角從旅客延伸到員工第六 連結地方共生共創旅運商機高鐵率聯臺灣西部走廊超過九成的人口因此我們也將把旅遊產品積極結合地方特色活動"},{"start":3024.707,"end":3038.796,"text":"推出結合各地特色的旅遊專案鼓勵旅客真實接觸臺灣之美更帶動地方產業的發展同時各車站設置高鐵市集或在地物產館建議推廣在地生產商品促進地方經濟的成長"},{"start":3040.137,"end":3065.316,"text":"以上就是迎接高鐵20年推動高鐵2.0的一些業務方向非常感謝各位委員的聆聽也敬請各位委員不吝指教委員寶貴意見將幫助我們充實高鐵2.0的內涵讓它更貼近民眾與旅客的期待非常謝謝大家 謝謝好 謝謝我們台鐵高鐵公司的石董事長的報告"},{"start":3066.647,"end":3085.819,"text":"好 現在我們接下來進行詢答先告以下的事項一 詢答時間出席委員6分鐘 內席委員4分鐘委員花言登記在10點30分截止"},{"start":3086.71,"end":3105.026,"text":"各委員如果有臨時提案請在10點鐘以前提出以便議事人員會診暫定10點30分休息10分鐘現在請登記第一號的李昆哲委員執行"},{"start":3116.098,"end":3131.938,"text":"謝謝召委 請一下陳士凱部長好 陳部長鄭光源董事長好 鄭董事長史澤董事長 楊振軍局長好 那楊局長還有史澤董事長部長好委員好"},{"start":3133.186,"end":3144.064,"text":"高鐵跟台鐵是我們國人重要的交通載具高鐵到今年5月每天搭乘的人次已經高達22萬人次"},{"start":3146.291,"end":3166.903,"text":"台鐵每天搭車的人次也高達68萬人次所以是重要的交通工具不管是台鐵或是高鐵不管是它的營運安全或是它的服務的效率以及它的永續的經營都是重要的一個議題"},{"start":3169.364,"end":3180.878,"text":"高鐵董事長跟台鐵董事長的就任國人是非常的嚴肅看待這樣的一個位置那尤其是高鐵的董事長"},{"start":3182.264,"end":3200.303,"text":"在過去 我看高鐵的董事長 也有那種不是軌道背景出身的人來擔任董事長像劉威祺董事長 他是學者 以前中山大學的校長 他是企業管理的一個背景"},{"start":3201.104,"end":3216.566,"text":"另外有一位范志強董事長他是軍人出身他的專長是財務金融但他們的任期都不長都大概一年左右當然高鐵董事長這樣一個重要的位置"},{"start":3217.307,"end":3232.186,"text":"不能只是一個高級的實習生這樣的角度啊來看待因為每天有22萬人次啊他關係到安全關係到員工的這種營運的人力也關係到服務的品質關係到永續經營那"},{"start":3234.534,"end":3253.781,"text":"關於史喆的這樣的一個任命也許有些人認為說他沒有軌道交通的經驗其實看看他過去的背景他在擔任高雄市副市長的時候臨港縣的輕軌以及大順路路段的輕軌啊"},{"start":3255.208,"end":3269.529,"text":"史喆是出立最重要的一個人尤其是在美術館區那一帶相關路線跟當地居民的協調而且啊最有名的龍貓隧道就是史喆所規劃的"},{"start":3272.404,"end":3297.17,"text":"輕軌當初大家認為說沒有人搭現在班次要增加而且也要買新車它是高雄現在很重要的一個交通工具那在鐵路地下化相關綠園道的建設也是受到全國民眾的肯定那在相關的綠園道在左營那一段大家下高鐵可以看到綠園道那一段也是使者所規劃的"},{"start":3298.51,"end":3322.449,"text":"像高雄市的黃線捷運現在在動工以及現在在規劃當中的紫線捷運使者也是重要的推手那更別說亞洲新灣區相關的博鰲倉庫群 鐵道文化園區都有使者努力的這樣的一個身影我想他適不適任 社會自有公平"},{"start":3323.449,"end":3343.326,"text":"我們還是要來探討一下高鐵目前所面臨的幾個問題第一個剛才部長我也提到說高鐵的搭乘人次在疫情之前大概是18萬人次在現在到2025年到5月為止每天的搭乘人次已經是高達22萬增加了20%高鐵的職員的總數"},{"start":3351.383,"end":3364.888,"text":"也增加了15.8比不上這樣的一個搭乘的人次所以人力的不足也是一個嚴肅的問題每週的班次在2019年的時候是"},{"start":3367.561,"end":3387.868,"text":"1016班次到2025也增加到1128的班次班次也增加了10%班次增加人次也增加所以高鐵董事長是一個重要的職務那我們現在高鐵的運量其實到今年2月都已經碰到瓶頸了"},{"start":3389.195,"end":3412.799,"text":"因為我們現在在高峰期間在假日期間是一票難求如果有假日連假你沒有一個禮拜之前去訂高鐵票已經是訂不到位置我也常常是用站的站回高雄我要請教我們高鐵如何去因應未來這種運量持續的增加以及面對這種瓶頸我們相關"},{"start":3416.178,"end":3441.252,"text":"要買新車的這些進度跟規劃內容我請教一下史哲董事長你了不了解啊好 謝謝委員我想委員非常的專業內行我可能就要想得非常的小心高鐵終究還是要透過新車的導入來解決這個運量的問題新車的進度我想明年第四季啊是這個到港來台"},{"start":3441.972,"end":3468.88,"text":"下半年度就會到了那後年也就是高鐵的20週年了與其是第三季即將上路那當然這段時間還有非常多的後續的工程以及這個搭配的新系統的狀況目前是有34組的列車要買12組新的列車新的列車跟目前的列車有什麼不同嗎我在之前有提醒交通部跟高鐵商務艙有插座"},{"start":3470.014,"end":3490.152,"text":"那相關的經濟艙這一次新車在過去有要求現在的新車經濟艙有沒有安裝這些插座的友善設施呢是的我想新車基本上這個舒適度寧靜度方面都有大幅的提升委員特別關心的插座的部分全車都會有插座好"},{"start":3491.013,"end":3507.641,"text":"它相關的檢證的設施以及通道的相關的檢噪音的這樣的一個設施在這次都要確實的查驗那相關的我要針對人力的部分我剛才提到說我們的班次增加10%"},{"start":3509.69,"end":3525.68,"text":"旅客的人次增加20%我們的人力增加夠嗎 我們的人力大概增加15.8%那接下來我們還要面對新車的測試以及運量越來越高的時候我們的人力"},{"start":3526.895,"end":3551.921,"text":"夠不夠如何來維持這種營運的人力安全的人力來董事長說明一下是 謝謝委員我想人力的增加我想都在計畫當中來進行這個我們實際對於運量的評估但是更重要的是人力的訓練以及因應新車的這個接應我們事實上已經有一組人在日本受訓了那新車也特別跟委員說明它雖然是這個日本這個N700S的這個基礎"},{"start":3555.302,"end":3569.571,"text":"但是事實上還有為台灣特別多的量身打造那事實上在系統上我們行控中心以及這個檢修各方面來講都在因應的調整所以這部分這其實是一個蠻浩大的工程那這也是未來這兩年高鐵最大的挑戰"},{"start":3570.697,"end":3598.566,"text":"好 董事長在高鐵是2007通車那2007通車到現在也將近18年了但是我們看到經過這麼多年高鐵的維修還有它車輛的狀況其實都面臨很大的挑戰我們看到各類的異常事件還有一般事故的統計2021年到今年的5月為止"},{"start":3600.227,"end":3618.085,"text":"這種各類的異常事件還有一般事故總共有121件是幸好是沒有發生重大的事故啊如果發生重大的事故我想部長跟董事長都是擔待不起啊那我們看到行車異常的事件"},{"start":3620.548,"end":3636.746,"text":"運轉保安裝置的故障有44件車輛的故障也高達15件外屋的入侵也有12件那我們維修的養護部門的人力只增加了13.5%人力夠嗎要不要增加"},{"start":3637.863,"end":3650.414,"text":"跟委員報告我想我們必要增加的我們一定會增加我想運安一定是放在第一位我想這個部分除了人力的增加我們新興的這種科技的檢修設備有沒有在做處理跟添購"},{"start":3651.323,"end":3673.095,"text":"不但有添購 事實上我們也配合我們的本土化我們自行在台灣也發展出我們自行的檢修的方式比如說例證之後橋樑的檢測我們最近即將發展出我們用AI無人機的檢測來說短它的時間也增加它的精密度這都是台灣自己本土發展出來的好 謝謝董事長我請教一下曾光炎董事長"},{"start":3675.851,"end":3697.982,"text":"董事長有很豐富的這種軌道的經驗不過我要提醒鄭董事長台鐵公司跟高鐵公司它有不同的內部文化這是你面臨最嚴峻的一個挑戰一個百年老店一個18歲的年輕人那相關的內部文化是不一樣的"},{"start":3698.962,"end":3712.905,"text":"那工會也有跟我反映你現在身段是非常的柔軟我想要積極的跟工會來對話還有指責董事長也是一樣工會的員工都是我們最重要的資產"},{"start":3714.537,"end":3734.73,"text":"我要提醒部長我們高鐵的人力目前明顯的不足工作增加班次旅次都增加的這種狀況人力顯然是跟不上這樣的一個進度那台鐵公司化之後員工我們要加強他的信心也非常辛苦"},{"start":3735.43,"end":3760.521,"text":"我是建議啊高鐵跟台鐵的員工啊都要有調心的這樣的一個處理讓員工啊更有信心剛才鄭董事長說要讓大家能夠開心的上班要開心上班啊除了要有榮譽感當然就是啊要能照顧他們的家庭會不會調心啊部長來簡單說明一下報告委員"},{"start":3763.329,"end":3791.592,"text":"員工一直都是我們最珍貴的資產對公司來說是最珍貴的資產那這個部分在史澤董事長跟鄭董事長上任之後其實我都有要求針對我們所有員工的這個福利我們必須要重新盤點讓我們的員工的待遇更加的好這是必然要做的事那我所知道史澤董事長跟鄭董事長也都跟工會有接觸過也有討論過未來怎麼讓員工的福利更好薪資條件更好讓他的工作環境更好"},{"start":3792.032,"end":3809.983,"text":"這是我們未來要面對的一個很重要的課題我們會朝這個方向來努力好 希望能夠增加台鐵高鐵員工的福利來增加這種營運的安全永續的經營以及擴展他們的市場那我最後要請教一下楊振金局長跟部長"},{"start":3811.044,"end":3829.415,"text":"有關於高雄的鐵路地下化台北的鐵路地下化他是分成四個階段台北車站專案萬板專案松山專案到最後的南港專案經過20多年已經正式的完工高雄的"},{"start":3830.601,"end":3858.448,"text":"鐵路地下化其實一開始只有一段叫做高雄計畫就是古山的保真路到三明區的正義路只有這一段叫高雄計畫那當初在第六屆的時候我們提出的規劃是鳳山到南梓但是後來可惜第七屆的時候民進黨沒有執政就變成了鳳山到左營那現在在"},{"start":3860.566,"end":3879.013,"text":"攔指這一段我們希望能夠鐵路地下化的可行性評估現在也在進行是謝謝交通部給我們可行性評估的經費現在還有另外一段就是鳳山鳳山道大樹的酒區堂這一段我們需要的經費大概是1990萬相關的立體化設施"},{"start":3883.54,"end":3908.348,"text":"這都關係到未來大高雄的整體發展尤其是攔指這一段當然他現在我們後進六七那邊相關的高科技園區再加上史哲董事長在之前跟我們努力推動的指線的規劃都關係到未來高雄的高科技的發展那鳳山這一段也是更重要鳳山現在是高雄市第一大的行政區"},{"start":3909.508,"end":3927.919,"text":"那高雄的第一大行政區鳳山的鐵路地下化或是高架化我們希望交通部能夠給予支持請部長說明一下報告委員這個部分的可行性研究交通部會來支持那目前的公文已經到部裡面了我們會加速這個簽核好 謝謝董事長 謝謝部長謝謝委員"},{"start":3930.066,"end":3952.492,"text":"好 謝謝李崑澤委員的執行現在剛剛已經議事錄已經議事人員宣讀請問議事錄各位委員有沒有意見好 沒有意見的話我們就議事錄確定好 現在進行第二位執行的黃國昌總召執行"},{"start":3961.976,"end":3988.865,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長台鐵正董事長 高鐵石澤董事長三位好 時間的關係不宜問候 首先請教石澤董事長今天所提出來的順便報告 特別點出來了"},{"start":3990.148,"end":3994.111,"text":"2024年相較到2023年的營收從531.9億然後從2023年的498.1億成長到2024年的531.9億成長幅度約74%上升6.8%啦好那請教一下石油董事長2023年跟2024年就營業費用的部分成長了幾%"},{"start":4018.34,"end":4038.751,"text":"也成長了差不多這個超過這個數字大概營業費用的成本大概墊高了50億左右但是這個當中其實是因為我們有一個跟交通部之間的抱歉抱歉我問問題很具體的那個成本跟費用是兩回事你知道吧你有沒有看過財報是有這個是基本的財塊吧剛剛我講的是營業費用"},{"start":4045.116,"end":4055.399,"text":"營業費用成長了幾%你知不知道營業費用大概成長了大概在5%之內錯營業費用2023年166億2024年186億成長12%營收6.8%營業費用成長了12%理由是什麼我想我們相關的攤提跟人事費用都有在增加"},{"start":4073.635,"end":4097.703,"text":"我這樣具體的講啊外界對你上任事實上你有沒有交通專業有人幫你緩價你有沒有經營專業現在考驗正在開始對自己的業務要守對自己的業務要守當然是2024年跟2023年最後稅前的經歷相差多少"},{"start":4099.516,"end":4113.027,"text":"到2024年大概稅前淨利已經降到70億下大概68億左右有稍微減少的時機稅前淨利稅前的話當然我剛講的是稅後那稅前的話大概是這個這個是從78億降到64.5億稅前淨利"},{"start":4118.524,"end":4122.506,"text":"稅前淨利2023年97億對這是稅前我剛剛講2024年80億為什麼2024年營收增加稅前淨利反而降低我剛剛特別講了就是說關於營業的成本以及這個相關攤體的費用"},{"start":4135.779,"end":4150.348,"text":"就最後啦業務內的收入事實上是增加的問題出在業務外的收入跟支出你可能回去再把高鐵的財務狀況好好看清楚今天只是測試ABC啦"},{"start":4151.328,"end":4166.356,"text":"我必須要說今天的測試顯然你對於高鐵的業務要掌握還有很長一段路要走我今天所講的數字所有的公民都可以上高鐵的財報去check看我講的對不對好來請台鐵董事長"},{"start":4171.215,"end":4196.327,"text":"委員好 董事長好 辛苦喔從高鐵董事長變台鐵董事長 責任更重做大事不是做大官 你這樣的精神我非常佩服今天我代讀你的報告 上面寫說你要貫徹當責文化我看了這四個字 我非常非常的欣賞為什麼我說 企業文化本來就要成敗有責"},{"start":4198.048,"end":4217.949,"text":"誰搞的爛攤子 誰負責嘛做的好的 就要獎勵嘛董事長 贊不贊成就是這樣就是這樣嘛 好來 我帶董事長看你接下來收拾哪些爛攤子台鐵 三千型志強號新的車子啊不曉得哪裡去設計這個爛椅子啊都新的椅子喔"},{"start":4222.315,"end":4238.126,"text":"在他旁邊的陳士凱部長也承認這個椅子爛到爆確實要改進改進這個椅子花一億八千四百五十萬來董事長請教依照你當責文化的精神這件事情誰要負責"},{"start":4239.656,"end":4263.655,"text":"我想這個我們當然這個我們看當時我們發報的這個情況那看那廠商交給我們的那是不是按照我們當時廠商交給我們的就是按照我們當初設計的是所以那個問題來了這個爛椅子當初是誰併的按照您所講的當者文化的精神這件事要不要究責"},{"start":4265.151,"end":4293.359,"text":"我們再繼續來瞭解一下需要多久你剛上任我給你多一點的時間兩個月之內去瞭解發生了什麼事誰應該負責任一億八千四百五十萬誰要負責可以嗎 兩個月夠不夠好 謝謝董事今天第一次第一次我都是很溫暖的我幫你把問題都整理出來讓董事長可以回去掌握狀況第二件事情"},{"start":4294.829,"end":4302.823,"text":"當哲文化為什麼重要台鐵過去所出現的狀況就是有不肖的商人跟政客結合"},{"start":4304.745,"end":4324.76,"text":"政客帶著不肖的廠商跑去台鐵沒有專業做業務指導說要做這個要做那個結果呢結果台鐵要搞一個列控4.0列控4.0花了納稅人六千萬一事無成一敗塗地"},{"start":4326.101,"end":4354.289,"text":"一次五成一敗塗地啊我直接問運安會啊這個列控4.0到底能用不能用啊運安會主委在交通委員會很誠實的打槍啊這根本不能用啊根本不能用那問題來啦當初大官帶著不孝廠商去台鐵直接強加在台鐵身上搞這個列控4.0來 董事長你認為還要再繼續搞下去嗎"},{"start":4355.27,"end":4378.776,"text":"跟委員報告這個事情我們會持續在我們公司內部的安全委員會檢討需要多久兩個月好不好兩個月可以好可以一樣這件事情我給你兩個月錯了就認錯不要為了掩飾過去的錯誤還要再砸更多的錢投一個不肖廠商造成台灣多少傷害"},{"start":4379.816,"end":4408.883,"text":"不是只有台鐵是受害人啊台南搞那個自駕系統爛到爆一樣不能用丟了好幾千萬下去你石頭丟到水裡還有一身啊那個是幾千萬砸下去什麼都沒有同一個劣質廠商連我們淘機都得標現在搞到都解約啦部長站在旁邊啦應該很清楚我在說什麼講了好幾次啦台鐵當著文化"},{"start":4410.987,"end":4426.712,"text":"成敗要有責第三個矽科站矽科站很長矽科站中站出口工程之前發包我把整個歷程調出來 這個可能是部長要回答的問題"},{"start":4429.122,"end":4450.482,"text":"結果本來預定2025年5月要竣工現在是2025年的6月原定2025年5月要竣工現在2025年6月部長知不知道工程進度多少工程進度非常緩慢因為當時的廠商他做不了所以解約那解約該罰款我們也有罰款非常好 這個就是我要提醒的事情"},{"start":4451.443,"end":4471.508,"text":"本來矽科站很長嘛有去過矽子然後在矽子那邊矽科站上下的居民大家感受都很深嘛那好不容易有這個經費做這個事情本來現在要竣工了搞到現在進度只有1.8%不是18%是1.8%看了這個歷程我就覺得很奇怪"},{"start":4472.864,"end":4487.753,"text":"我們的鐵道局開工凍土典禮是2023年12月8號開工凍土典禮當然就是政商名流大家拍照結果搞到後來是什麼結果搞到後來是那個廠商說我自己能力不足"},{"start":4488.857,"end":4514.95,"text":"我能力不足我第一次看到一個廠商講話這麼直白我能力不足我沒有辦法做他能力不足沒有辦法做當初是怎麼給他得標的這個事情有回去瞭解嗎這個當初到底怎麼搞的太離譜了啊這個廠商自我坦白我能力不足我做不下去了當初怎麼給他得標的這個事情哲烈要不要追究部長這個我們會去瞭解需要多久"},{"start":4517.504,"end":4529.338,"text":"你不是新手啦所以給你一個月了解責任一個月沒有問題可以嗎可以啊沒有問題再來台鐵遮斷器這我質詢過非常多次從去年到現在"},{"start":4530.766,"end":4549.894,"text":"從花東到彰化影響到非常多人的交通安全故障的次數高到嚇死人200多次來我們來review一下從我去年開始關心這件事情到現在你知道從去年到現在多裝了幾套遮斷器嗎跟委員報告這個案子到目前我們到4月點已經完成安裝了300"},{"start":4562.572,"end":4578.345,"text":"406套是是是這個我知道這個數字那個董事長你看PPT那個你前面有螢幕我有可能整理的比你還完整你直接看我的PPT就好了上面的數字不會錯了解一下去年9月喔"},{"start":4579.619,"end":4597.123,"text":"到現在他已經遲延非常久了遲延非常久是累積的問題那我關心的是我從去年9月到現在裝了幾套多裝了14套從396套到406套然後目前為止裝設進度只有到29%下一個問題我有這個事情牽涉到行人的交通安全"},{"start":4607.952,"end":4636.422,"text":"我們國家花大錢砸了好幾億下去搞這個東西結果一樣我們的招標系統很奇怪專門都找到那種沒有能力的專業性不夠的劣質廠商交通部送來交通委員會的解凍報告部長你應該還記得你說解凍報告說這個遮斷器的電源改善系統什麼時候要完成改善是11月要完成嗎"},{"start":4637.759,"end":4657.646,"text":"我應該沒寫錯嘛你知道現在11月可以完成嗎這個部分可以完成可以確定可以來來來來來交通部電源改善工程採購履約期間要到2026年10月27號所以是這個公告有問題嗎"},{"start":4659.161,"end":4671.405,"text":"我看到這個採購的公告履約的期間我嚇一跳交通部送給交通委員的報告是今年11月要完成啊這個履約期間是到2026年11月27號這怎麼回事這是什麼不對勁差一檔耶委員請總經理來跟您報告好嗎可以"},{"start":4681.212,"end":4707.66,"text":"報告委員 那委員關切的事項主要是因為我們老舊電源要改善是 我了解CMT案跟另外額外還有發包兩個案在進行是 所以呢 到底什麼時候要完成11月是我們CMT原來就已經在進行的部分會完成那我們新發包的要到明年的對嘛 這個時間你們送給國會的報告不要在那邊遮遮掩掩"},{"start":4709.517,"end":4734.398,"text":"你隨便送給交通委員會一個唬爛的解凍報告告訴交通委員會的委員11月會完成時間會到歷史會檢驗嘛我光看你們這個公告今年11月就不會完成啊報告委員這是兩個案子啊是這上面寫的是第一個案子第一個案子我們在11月會完成這個沒有問題那這個案子會比較後面對嘛但我現在的重點是什麼"},{"start":4735.441,"end":4758.19,"text":"我現在的重點是這個丟了好幾億下去的公司的工程早就該完成了嘛我們現在處於delay的狀態我為什麼會關心他什麼時候該完成鐵路停交道耶這牽涉到每一個行人的生命耶這不是開玩笑的事耶我為什麼會定這個事"},{"start":4759.827,"end":4779.154,"text":"如果現在的系統是安全的 那我們根本就不用花錢去搞這件事啊就是不安全才要花錢去搞嘛不安全花錢去搞 錢砸下去了 到目前為止呢到目前為止不斷的延宕你們都不會擔心喔還是我一個人在起人憂天你們都不會擔心喔報告委員 這個在改善當中在進行當中"},{"start":4789.349,"end":4808.812,"text":"最後一個問題這個案子我一直追我覺得莫名其妙這個廠商敢包這個標到的遮斷器他有能力做嗎怎麼會得標了以後在那邊怪東怪西我的產品有問題是因為電源什麼電源有問題"},{"start":4810.1,"end":4833.707,"text":"然後要我們國家再幫這個廠商出一大筆錢再去改善這個電源供應系統整件事情啊讓我覺得莫名其妙但是當我發現莫名其妙的時候我一定會開始追我開始追我就發現了說有關於新版遮斷器的動作電流"},{"start":4835.285,"end":4855.559,"text":"他說呢本來2020年9月核定的遮斷器規範當中裡面是有要求的但是呢後來經廠商反應後檢討在同年12月也就是2020年12月修訂進版的時候取消"},{"start":4856.816,"end":4881.231,"text":"電流限制取消電流限制是什麼就是讓這個廠商本來沒這個能力的沒有辦法來投變成有辦法來投這個是幫這個沒有能力的廠商量身打造再改標案規格嗎來請教部長是委員長部長他這個取消的過程是要不要請總經理他比較了解整個好可以來請總經理"},{"start":4882.728,"end":4908.753,"text":"包委員 這個我們內部也有進行調查然後呢 調查結果咧對 我們現在目前是主要是在我們這段期在公約的過程中廠商有反映說這個電源限制的部分因應現在目前功能提升可以做取消不過在後面廠商提出來的一個產品它還是符合我們規範裡面的一個安培數的這個限制"},{"start":4909.133,"end":4933.325,"text":"那現在這個案如果符合規範的話我們還要幫他砸錢幫廠商改善電流供應報委員主要是因為現在目前是我們的電源老舊他不穩定所以我們需要去做改善讓這個遮斷機運作能夠正常更穩定所以呢我們的電源老舊是現在才發現還是當初他投票就知道我們在過程中發現這樣的一個課題"},{"start":4935.666,"end":4962.74,"text":"我這樣子講好了啦剛剛你說你們這件事情有進行內部調查嗎有調查報告嗎我們也已經有初步的這個調查報告可以送來嗎可以啊今天下班以前把調查報告送來這件事情我一定追到底啊改標案規格讓他進來投得標了以後再抱怨電流系統有問題政府再幫他出錢改我們的政府很有錢啊"},{"start":4964.994,"end":4991.64,"text":"對這種無能不孝的廠商啊特別的溫柔啊反正花的又不是自己的錢全部花納稅的錢可以這樣搞喔今天下班以前把報告送來可以嗎可以 幫委員我們先前也有把我們調查的資料有提供給委員參考好沒有關係下班以前調查報告送來好好謝謝黃國昌總召的執行現在請黃建豪委員執行"},{"start":5001.428,"end":5008.441,"text":"好謝謝主席主席我們請部長以及請高雷公司石董事長好那個陳部長石董事長"},{"start":5017.847,"end":5045.552,"text":"好來部長好董事長好我想社會各界都非常關注我們這一次這個高鐵董事長新的人事任命案當然我們從過去的一些履歷上看出來他包含說之前媒體上討論過非常多次大家一致上的這個判斷都認為說我們現任這位施董事長可能比較缺乏過去可能看起來沒有交通相關的這個專業那當然了這個大家批評過了但是我們在展望未來我想問一下我們施董事長對於"},{"start":5047.132,"end":5061.517,"text":"這個既然已經接任了高鐵董事長過去幾任的董事長當然都有相關的可能是在這個交通營運上的一些專業那我不知道施董事長你來接任董事長之後我想上一段時間到目前為止接任到現在未來高鐵對你來講你要"},{"start":5063.237,"end":5077.857,"text":"負責什麼樣的業務你要把高鐵公司帶往什麼樣的方向可以請市董事長簡單說明一下好 謝謝委員我剛剛特別在報告裡面有特別說明今年是高鐵開通的第18年明年新車到港是第19年新車加入是第20年"},{"start":5078.678,"end":5102.465,"text":"一個營運20年的高鐵公司我們希望在20年的狀況底下在新車加入的狀況底下能夠在服務上在營運上在運安上都能夠再創新的標準所以我特別提出叫做高鐵2.0那新車的導入除了新車進入之外後續整整維修行動安全等等其實是成龍配套所以因此現在整體這個任務是很清楚的"},{"start":5102.845,"end":5129.33,"text":"這個任務在兩年之後就要實現也必須要被檢驗簡單講這個考題大家都可以看得到它的成果如何好 董事長謝謝我想回答非常明確那當然第一個營運的部分過去董事長留下來的這個這董事長留下來的資歷是說目前高鐵營運到去年底為止到今年為止發出年終等等創了新鋼500多億那在營運增加的部分請問是董事長你在現行的狀態之下在車子到任之前到現在新車"},{"start":5130.35,"end":5155.531,"text":"要在兩年後才有完全的上線之前這兩年期間假設你一直擔任董事長那這兩年期間我們要怎麼樣第一個要怎麼樣維持營運第二個有沒有可能再讓營運再創高董事長是 特別有關在報告裡面有說明從趨勢圖看起來疫後大爆發事實上目前是趨緩的狀況因此高鐵作為公司每年對於運量其實都有預估到目前為止一至五月我們的成長是比去年增加3.4%"},{"start":5156.952,"end":5181.983,"text":"那這個部分跟之前所增加的6%到7%事實上是趨緩但是也符合我們的目標值那歸來兩年在新車進來之前確實也要跟國人同胞拜託這是一個大家需要共體時間的過程我們7月1號開始也增班了25班次針對暑假那未來我們還會在短期增班確實我們這段時間呢我們需要各種調度的方法來因應我們旅客的需求"},{"start":5182.705,"end":5209.195,"text":"董事長我跟你分享一下啦我想過去這個鄭董事長也提過相關的數據喔週六週末當然我們的運量非常高幾乎去全滿八九成左右但是要提升運量要提升我們整個營收可能靠週間啦我們週間注意到週四基本上你的運量大概六成五成多六成所以五成多六成的中間這個東西如果運量能夠提升我想營收也有機會來提升了好不好是不是能夠讓週間的運量看看怎麼樣"},{"start":5209.995,"end":5225.185,"text":"因為這個我們部長被你背書了說你有這個相關的可能有行銷有其他地方政府的經驗跟專業那怎麼樣能夠讓週間的運量提升讓高鐵的營收增加我想會不會是未來你可以努力的方向是 謝謝委員 委員講的沒有錯確實一個軍話是現在目前解決這個"},{"start":5229.207,"end":5244.789,"text":"人滿為患一個問題所以在高鐵裡面我們的名詞叫做移風填谷就是把高峰的要能夠移到谷底的那這個部分當然採取非常多的這個票價的策略等等來這個移動那目前事實上但是的"},{"start":5245.47,"end":5270.584,"text":"五六日的需求畢竟還是一個剛性的需求這個我們要承認那事實上目前我們的旅客也非常的體諒他也知道這個在尖峰時刻的熱門時段也是一票難求事實上在五六日本身全日本身也有均化的現象那我在這裡還是特別感謝大家的幫忙體諒我們在未來兩年希望大家共體時間我們希望我們把新車上路的工作做好"},{"start":5271.064,"end":5299.994,"text":"好董事長最後一題針對你的部分針對最後一題喔當然高鐵你對對你來講啦高鐵公司這件事情除營運之外對民眾來講大家最在意的你覺得會什麼什麼樣的點是最在意的你認為這個民眾第一個當然是在乎的是安全好那我想這件事情也是高鐵放在整個公司理念當中的永遠的第一位我想高鐵事實上從每天早上5點鐘開始到晚上12點05分收班啦事實上收班之後大家休息的但是高鐵的"},{"start":5300.894,"end":5320.58,"text":"工作才正開始為什麼我們的後續的維修檢測一路進行巡軌所以我們其實不是每天運作我們是每秒都在運作那我們感謝高協所有的員工那運安一定是放在第一位第二個我想搭乘的舒適性跟便利性準點這個是旅客對我們"},{"start":5321.78,"end":5344.451,"text":"絕對的要求那我想我們現在從各方面的調查裡面也看得出來接下來其實大家都會希望我們的安靜度各方面來講都能夠提升那這個也是新車的一個特色謝謝好董事長謝謝我想你的這個運安我想大家我確實也想講運安的事情那當然後續前面的前任班打下非常好的基礎那現在既然接任了我們就期待說後續在運安上"},{"start":5345.391,"end":5362.568,"text":"還有營運上面營運當然是重點之一但是運安我想對國人來講是更重要的事情那運安我們期待說您接任之後能夠繼續維持過去的高標準的狀態那不要這個是你應該是你的責任了好不好是 這一定的 謝謝好 董事長請回那我們接下來我們就請這個台鐵鎮董事長台鐵鎮董事長"},{"start":5367.588,"end":5386.073,"text":"好那個特別跟部長跟兩位董事長提醒一下各位所有幫忙董事長回答的所有被請人員一定要尊重主席不要把他當成這裡是菜市場"},{"start":5387.383,"end":5413.077,"text":"好 這個尊重主席 尊重主席臺 這是最基本的要素希望兩位董事長跟部長要約束手鼠這是對立法院一個尊重不要要上來就上來 要下去就要下去這基本上是不好的那另外我還是要跟鄭董事長跟總經理提醒答應黃國昌的下班以前一定要提"},{"start":5413.737,"end":5442.642,"text":"好 一定要提供我們的報告那個之前應該有提過了其實已經有提過了 可能黃衛原忘記了好 現在請好 謝謝 謝謝這個主席的這個提醒那接下來我們請教教鄭董事長鄭董事長當然喔過去您在高鐵公司任內的確幫這個高鐵創了這個營收的薪高啦那現在您來到台鐵公司啊那當然第一個我們還是期待台鐵能夠在你的帶領之下能夠成功的體上的轉型它現在正式成為公司了嘛"},{"start":5443.402,"end":5471.467,"text":"那我們來提到一下票價的問題我想兩天前票價正式的調漲那我們看一下這個票價當然這個票價不會是董事長您定案的這是你現在接手要處理的部分可以看到我們這個區間車短程的部分它調漲的金額看起來不高但是比例上的漲幅比如說以台中為例台中到豐原 台中到新日就是台中到台中升降到高鐵的部分台中到新日然後還有通行量最大台中彰化跟台中新竹"},{"start":5472.307,"end":5496.217,"text":"它的這個漲幅大概都會最高來到48%那距離到42%短程的等於相對來講短程的漲幅比較高那你看這個長城呢就是從志強號等級比較高距離比較遠台北到高雄漲幅只有18%台北到台東漲幅只有20%那當然我想問一下這樣子的票價的定價策略會不會讓短程的民眾覺得自己"},{"start":5497.321,"end":5522.23,"text":"像是這個潘娜一樣 要短程反而要付更多的錢那反而長程的這個票價他不用按比例去付更多的票價我想問一下台鐵當初在做這個定價策略的思考是什麼那未來會不會因為這樣的受到這個我們的台鐵營運會不會因為這樣受到你本來想要賺更多錢但結果導致大家寧願不去做台鐵就做別的運具或是自己開車騎車了"},{"start":5523.991,"end":5540.47,"text":"董事長謝謝委員指教基本上我們這次的這個定價的這個策略基本上是用地遠地簡致換句話說我們比較長程的部分我們調升的比例是比較少主要也是因為我們希望說台鐵跟高鐵"},{"start":5541.971,"end":5570,"text":"基本上有一個運軀分工的概念也就是說我們會比較著重在這個短程那這些通勤的這部分的話來我們是我們要努力的但是對長程的部分的話呢我想這不是台鐵要努力的空間應該是給高鐵而且旅客來講也是這樣來得這個他的這個心理學心理上基本是所以我們在短程裡面我們會希望說我們的班次增多"},{"start":5571.381,"end":5593.622,"text":"讓我們的通勤旅客隨時有車子可以打最重要能夠把它做到準點在這個方面的話我們希望能夠得到旅客的認同至於票價因為短程基本上量不大但是看起來是百分比確實是沒錯大概百分之四十幾當時我們整個定價的一個策略大概是這樣的一個方向"},{"start":5594.147,"end":5610.424,"text":"我就說這定價策略會不會導致就是說萬一啦但是定價策略我不知道第一個這個策略出來之後你多久要檢討一次會不會因此運量下降你們有沒有定什麼時候來檢討如果因為這樣造成運量下降的話營收假設上升但運量如果整體下降等於你服務民眾的這個"},{"start":5612.011,"end":5627.294,"text":"可及性變低之後 那你這個票價有沒有在調整的空間還是這個東西一直往上漲上去 我要問的是這個是 各位報告 基本上我們會逐年來調整來看我們這個策略當時的目標有沒有達到我們的目的"},{"start":5628.515,"end":5649.845,"text":"目前看來我們剛票價調整以後前面幾天我們看起來整個運量其實我們增加了並不多大概只有2點多個%但是我們的營收增加了24%所以這個的話策略來講我想初步看來是OK的"},{"start":5650.786,"end":5665.624,"text":"好 董事長謝謝董事長請回 謝謝謝謝部長 最後一題我要針對我們台中捷運這是一定要問的這是今年四月中的時候你們來考察台中捷運局限當時有一個新聞說交通部長允諾要速審那我要跟大家講這個速到底多速"},{"start":5666.625,"end":5693.923,"text":"這個去年7月2號我想部長也知道我們去年7月2號台中捷運局線就通過了所謂交通部的可能性研究的審查會有條件通過那去年的10月市府有把這個修正報告也送回了交通部那準備要送出那從去年7月2號通過到去年10月1號再送出那到現在已經今天6月25號即將要滿一年了這到7月2號即將要滿一年了那到底這一年等了一年進度是什麼因為"},{"start":5695.224,"end":5711.075,"text":"這個還涉及到我們 捷運決訓不只經過商業區 不只經過人口密集區啊 它還經過機場嘛那這涉及到我們台中機場所謂2040的這個大的計畫那當初這2040大的計畫裡面 包含了台中捷運的這個運量的部分"},{"start":5711.875,"end":5731.196,"text":"二零四零距今也是剩十五年而已啊那按照過去蓋捷運的經驗光是蓋工程面可能就要拖個不要說拖啦可能正常進行大概也要十年左右的時間那從二零四零到現在如果只剩十五年那我的捷運就先光前面的文件審查到現在還在可行性的部分我想問一下這一年到底發生什麼事情以及"},{"start":5732.097,"end":5759.085,"text":"什麼時候才能夠送進行政院然後兩行政院趕快核定回來才能進行後面的重要規劃報告委員這個案子我們目前部裡面正在審查不過這個案子我們遇到了幾個重要的課題第一個是我們南投延伸的課題第二個是目前海線延伸的課題鐵道局已經確定要補助1170萬來做這個海線延伸的這個課題那另外也就是說在台中火車站的那個交接的問題以及轉乘的問題"},{"start":5760.905,"end":5785.756,"text":"目前也跟市政府正在延伸 應該有個結論了啦 差不多有個結論了那因為遇到這幾個課題 所以時間上可能會延長一點不過我的態度還是一樣 在交通部的部分我們會加速來審查那個延伸我想這樣啦 台中不是第一次做延伸線我們現在的綠線 綠線延伸是另外的計畫今天你橘線 包含說要延伸到海線 延伸到南投 那個都是後來送來的"},{"start":5786.576,"end":5814.003,"text":"那不應該影響到主線的進度啊就你要延伸我也沒有意見都支持反正能做都做但問題是今天如果為了延伸線去影響到主線的這進度我想大家應該是沒辦法接受啦市長我們也希望他能夠加速可是不一樣的地方有不一樣的想法坦白講在台中不一樣的地方大家想法也不一定是一樣但對我們來講加速是一定要做的事不是啦 部長你這樣意思說我們今天結運局限要不要過"},{"start":5815.163,"end":5829.796,"text":"要不要審查通過會受到延伸線的影響嗎因為你延伸線你要等於連這個可行性都還沒送出來還要重新再做可行性那你要等到可行性送出來然後還要通過交通你延伸線還要先通過交通部耶"},{"start":5830.612,"end":5852.838,"text":"他那邊過了然後才併到這個主線裡面因為今天對我們來講我們現在正在研討就是看怎麼樣分開討論啦但是還是一定要同時能夠做得好要同時能夠做得好我也希望能夠把原本的主線先往前走但其他的延伸線不要落對了不要到最後變成不見了這個部分我們正在討論"},{"start":5853.858,"end":5881.303,"text":"這沒問題啊 如果說今天主線先過嘛 主線能過先過我目前也在努力 工程假設能夠先做了你主線蓋完你才有延伸線的問題嘛這主線要蓋也要好幾年的時間我目前也在努力這個方向 好不好這個真的要快一點 這真的白白就等了一年了7月號 去年7月號現在即將滿一年了我跟你講這個過程當中其實有很多的修正的內容都在修正這個部分我們跟台中市政府都有在配合好 希望這個真的要加速 不然你會趕不上2040的機場的計畫"},{"start":5883.443,"end":5901.011,"text":"好不好 部長謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝黃建豪委員的執行這個特別提醒部長 這個是我去會刊的我要拜託啊 我要拜託啊還是要照這種進度啊 要趕一下啦 好不好好 接下來我們請陳樹業委員執行"},{"start":5910.844,"end":5926.552,"text":"謝謝主席請主席邀請陳部長還有高鐵石董事長好交通部陳部長還有高鐵石董事長委員好"},{"start":5926.977,"end":5942.274,"text":"部長早還有董事長早那本席先請教我們高鐵石董事長因為最近就是高鐵跟台鐵的這個人事發布然後也引起外界的關注跟議論那高鐵的部分就是外界對"},{"start":5943.115,"end":5963.135,"text":"就是石董事長來接任 當然就是有一些爭議跟聲音啦 認為說您沒有這個交通的經驗所以認為說讓你來當這個高鐵的董事長是一種酬庸啦那我們知道高鐵成立通車到現在大概18年的時間嘛所以高鐵公司可以說是一個"},{"start":5963.675,"end":5980.267,"text":"年紀很輕的公司到目前也是充滿了這個活力也是非常的有制度那本期來台北開這個開會也都是每次都搭高鐵所以對高鐵的服務品質我覺得也是非常好都是予以肯定那在歷任的董事長的"},{"start":5981.847,"end":6007.933,"text":"這個經營管理之下其實備受外界的肯定所以本席請教說如果說高鐵公司目前給外界的印象是100分的話那如果由你來帶領這個高鐵公司你要讓人家如何覺得會不一樣因為如果說你來當了這個董事長結果還是一樣的話那會不會就是讓人家覺得說你就是世衛素餐是一個愁容"},{"start":6009.083,"end":6036.454,"text":"是 謝謝委員的指教我想感謝委員的這個肯定高鐵確實從18年前開通那一刻事實上帶給國人是一個經驗因為當年事實上台灣人並沒有體會到我們的公共建設公共服務可以達到這樣的品質那這18年來我們歷經了過去的新建期那開通的開創初期以及財務改革以及疫後的衝擊那我想在立院的經營團隊也特別感謝"},{"start":6037.795,"end":6062.529,"text":"這個鄭董事長那我想高鐵確實如委員所肯定的他您覺得他是100分那很高的分數就代表他其實要再繼續維持或進步事實上是相當大的挑戰但是我們也要承認今年第18年明年第19年我們新車到港來台後年20年20年的一個運輸業我們是不是應該為未來的10年20年要做好準備"},{"start":6063.61,"end":6086.056,"text":"而新車的加入事實上是現在民眾普遍的期待因為確實我們因為景氣的復甦 疫後人潮的爆發事實上確實現在在尖峰時段尤其是對我們中南部是一味難求那也間接的造成我們第一線服務人員的壓力以及服務品質的下降"},{"start":6086.616,"end":6099.791,"text":"因此新車的如期如止的上路是我最重要的一個責任那也是今天我來接任董事長可以說考試的鈴聲已經響起交卷的時間也確定"},{"start":6101.553,"end":6126.042,"text":"考試的題目是公開是open book大家都可以看得到他最後的成績如何因此我用這樣的方法來回答委員就是說我不敢講更上一層樓但是高鐵在未來前瞻性的十年二十年在這一次以新車加入導入為基礎的整體的高鐵2.0我想是我對我自己自我的期許也是希望能夠對全國民眾的責任謝謝"},{"start":6127.302,"end":6140.126,"text":"是我想就是你這個人事的決定相信也是你的能力有受到肯定那當然外界也都睜大眼睛在看所以本席也是期待說石董事長未來在高鐵公司這個董事長任內能夠"},{"start":6144.929,"end":6172.148,"text":"就是有所作為然後讓外界能夠眼睛一亮有不同的這樣的更好的企業文化謝謝委員還有就是這個班次的問題就是本席彰化縣這個田中就是彰化站就是在田中所以這個班次的問題地方鄉親也一再的反映所以在這個部分我們也希望我們高鐵公司這邊要就是多加於考量就是在彰化站的部分"},{"start":6172.85,"end":6197.175,"text":"是 我想田中的彰化站當然目前整個人次還不到五千那比較可惜當然它是一個沒有跟台鐵共構的站它跟台鐵火車站最近還有三公里之遙但是呢高鐵事實上扮演了一個非常均衡台灣的一個角色所以有關於各地的站的班次的問題我想我們會持續性的來檢討這是我們也是相當重視的課題"},{"start":6198.376,"end":6226.728,"text":"是好謝謝施董事長那接下來我來請教台鐵的部分所以請台鐵鄭董事長那在這邊我想先請教就是我們看到台鐵的旅域因為台鐵鐵路運輸也是還是一個不可或缺的一個交通運輸的一個管道那可是我們看到最近只有單單五月份就發生三件這個暴力攻擊的一個事件"},{"start":6227.148,"end":6255.016,"text":"那過去也是屢次發生甚至有導致鐵路警察喪失生命的這種不幸的意外所以對於這個屢次發生暴力攻擊事件我們要怎樣去維護旅運的一個安全不僅是員工的安全當然還有相關的旅客的安全我們都要去重視所以我們在這個部分先請鄭董事長簡單回應一下好了好不好先說明一下"},{"start":6255.856,"end":6283.811,"text":"我想這個維護我們員工的職場上的安全這是我們的責任那在這一方面的話我們也對一些有出現暴力這種不法的這種對的這種旅客對員工的這種傷害我們基本上會尊重我們員工的這個提訴權我們也都會安排我們一些必要的話我們一些這個法務人員都可以來提供這樣的一個協助"},{"start":6284.795,"end":6297.044,"text":"是就是法務人員是事後發生的協助啦那當然我也有看到一個訊息就是說有員工在反映說是不是可以有相關的一些裝備包括密錄器還是什麼之類的可以讓他們"},{"start":6297.935,"end":6320.633,"text":"可以保護自己 不曉得這方面我們有沒有相關的想法是 秘錄器這一部分我們也跟工會這邊有充分的討論員工方面確實是有希望能夠有這樣 尤其在列車長這一部分他們希望因為這樣能夠得到保障我想這一部分我們現在積極在研究 操作方面來努力"},{"start":6321.104,"end":6349.29,"text":"好謝謝那我們知道其實台鐵的這個旅運安全絕大部分應該是說百分之百要仰賴鐵路警察嘛對不對仰賴鐵路警察所以這個鐵路警察非常的重要那目前就是我的選區有遇到一個問題這個可能要拜託部長來解決就是目前在園林火車站前面的這個鐵路警察局分住所"},{"start":6349.93,"end":6378.076,"text":"他元寧分住所 他目前就是面臨到元寧市公所就是地方政府要拓寬這個計畫道路那這個現有的建築物就是必須被拆除一半了啦那拆除一半之後就幾乎應該安全性或者空間就不敷使用了那目前這個經費就是已經爭取到營建署這個是計畫道路內的道路拓寬所以營建署經費都已經補助也撥下去了"},{"start":6378.576,"end":6384.861,"text":"所以地方政府也有那個壓力可是目前就是這個元年分住所那個鐵路警察局他目前沒有一個安身之處所以他還沒有辦法搬那他暫時遷移還沒有著落"},{"start":6393.887,"end":6399.368,"text":"之外呢 他未來到底要重建重建的話要建在哪邊所以這個課題因為我們有召開協調會可是對於鐵路警察的單位來說他認為說他是在協助我們台鐵維護治安所以不管是安頓或者是未來的簽建的經費希望交通部這邊要來幫他們解決"},{"start":6421.435,"end":6423.413,"text":"我先請教一下部長 您的看法"},{"start":6424.205,"end":6451.242,"text":"報告委員 這個我們先來釐清一下就是經費的部分內政部當然是所有警察的主管單位那這個部分我們會來跟他們協調該是交通部出當然就交通部來出那有可能也有可能會是內政部我們再來協調但無論如何無論如何我們這個鐵路警察的員林派出所的部分一定會讓他們有一個很好的地方可以辦公這個部分我們一定會確保"},{"start":6452.202,"end":6464.476,"text":"那這個土地的部分或空間的部分我們也跟台鐵公司我想台鐵公司也經過會勘了啦那後面的經費也一定不會讓在地的這些鐵路警察們的這個同仁們需要去擔心這個問題這個我們會來解決對我也是覺得說這個問題不應該是丟給地方基層那個"},{"start":6469.822,"end":6472.024,"text":"鐵路警察派出所他們去傷腦筋剛剛部長提到說這個經費就是要經過協調因為我覺得這層級應該就是要部長出面才有辦法因為我邀請內政部的鐵路警察"},{"start":6485.033,"end":6512.071,"text":"那個台中的那個分局他們也沒辦法做主啊他們也是認為就是要交通部來出面可是交通部這邊我們台鐵不敢做主啊他們也不敢答應啊所以我覺得說這個就是要部長要可能要你們就是兩個交通局好 這個案子我們來協助好 我們來協助那未來就是簽件的話這個用地的部分目前初步台鐵的公司這邊是有願意提供這個倒搬房的用地啦"},{"start":6513.151,"end":6539.378,"text":"我覺得這也要感謝我們台鐵公司這邊有這個誠意在協助解決所以未來我們希望就是說可以很順利的把這個地點確定之後然後改建的監會也確定把這個問題趕快解決這樣子那因為這個鐵路警察局就是派出所啦目前這樣子的位置就是會妨礙到整個元嶺火車站前面的交通的一個動線所以這個道路的拓寬真的也是地方的一個期待"},{"start":6540.098,"end":6562.661,"text":"那未來我這邊也要再建議一下就是說這個鐵路警察局現有的這一個如果拆除簽件之後我們希望這一個空間我們台旅公司這邊是不是也在做一個妥善的規劃讓原有的那個計程車排班有一個更好的一個位置跟動線是不是可以請那個董事長這邊"},{"start":6563.542,"end":6589.14,"text":"是,有關於這個遷建以後,這地怎麼來用我想第一個就是要來對這個在地的這個交通有所幫助,我想這個是最重要的是,好,那我在最後一個問題,然後這也是一個小問題就是就是火車站附近,真的這個交通非常的複雜,車流量很大,那對停車需求也是非常的"},{"start":6590.24,"end":6614.308,"text":"那目前在社投火車站前面目前地方鄉親就有在反映說目前民營的停車場的收費太高了那我們了解之後發現說我們在社投火車站附近事實上是有我們台鐵的閒置土地那所以本席在這邊建議說台鐵公司是不是可以善加利用"},{"start":6614.848,"end":6629.274,"text":"把這個閒置土地規劃來當作停車場然後可以提供民眾使用那也可以在這個費用上能夠盡量的就是減輕那個民眾的一個負擔這樣子謝謝委員 直接我們朝這方向來進行"},{"start":6630.222,"end":6648.466,"text":"OK好謝謝鄭董事長我想鄭董事長在高鐵任內的一個成績所以您來擔任台鐵董事長相信大家也是對你寄予厚望希望就是說你以你的經驗能力來帶領是不是可以讓這個百年老店重新有一個活力是不是"},{"start":6649.131,"end":6674.665,"text":"好 謝謝委員指教 我盡力來處理好 謝謝鄭董事長 謝謝部長好 謝謝陳樹葉委員的執行現在請何欣淳委員執行好 謝謝主席 謝謝國城召委我們是不是先 部長先喝口水 慢慢來好 我們請陳部長好 請交通部陳部長"},{"start":6676.533,"end":6703.483,"text":"那今天我們聚焦在台鐵跟高鐵那我要請教部長因為我一直很關心這個行動電源的安全問題那剛好我看到這個新聞那有系列的報導這個中國製的行動電源災情連環報那聽說這個安普瑞斯電芯是其中就是那個電池的問題裡面的一個零件是禍首"},{"start":6706.389,"end":6724.976,"text":"這個因為這樣子所以中國製的這個行動電源現在有羅馬市跟安克已經相繼公告要收回回收那他們存在這個起火爆炸風險的這兩家的行動電源相當於全球2024出貨量的四分之一"},{"start":6725.916,"end":6746.849,"text":"那我要請部長要重視這個問題是在於雖然我看到媒體上宣稱安克號召回收召回的70萬顆裡面在台灣涉及的數量不超過5500顆但是這個是由代理商的一個官方數字"},{"start":6747.669,"end":6765.544,"text":"那如果說有現在盛行的電商的網購或者是我們自行平行輸入的民眾自己帶回來的台灣到底有多少這樣的數量不清楚那我要問的是什麼既然有這樣子的一個風險存在也曾經發生來下一頁"},{"start":6767.935,"end":6784.91,"text":"行動電源的事故在航空釜山航空客機曾經發生過香港航空在飛行途中也曾經發生過那我們也看到在國內有台鐵有高鐵也有所以我們現在要請部長是"},{"start":6785.771,"end":6813.941,"text":"要求在航空高鐵台鐵的三大的運具系統裡面這個是國人的安全最重要那如何保障那航空當然我們知道他們有國際公約所以呢航空做的是最高標準最嚴格的所以呢我們也看到在民航運輸裡面對於這個起火有納入他們的應變跟訓練項目但是當然我知道呢用民航的這個高規格國際的高規格可能跟高鐵"},{"start":6814.921,"end":6834.17,"text":"台鐵跟路上的不是這麼樣的一個match適用但是我們也應該要注意到高鐵跟台鐵對於相關的這個行動電源可能自然可能起火可能造成的一個車廂內的一個這個恐慌那我們又該如何的應變部長這個你同意嘛對不對"},{"start":6835.771,"end":6861.17,"text":"是相當同意感謝委員的垂詢針對這個議題其實最近大家都相當關注所以我們在民航系統各個航空公司現在在登機的時候針對行動電源都有新的規範新的規定那車廂上面在台鐵跟高鐵都發生過那我知道鐵道局其實都有要求每一個鐵路系統都要做防災尤其是火災方面的演練那台鐵跟高鐵其實都有做這方面的演練"},{"start":6861.61,"end":6887.797,"text":"部長我就是要來跟你討論這件事我曾經跟運安會質詢運安會有給了我一些建議他們也會給高鐵跟台鐵一些建議當然如部長所說的可能局長也有要求高鐵確實有訂定火災一般性的應變程序問題是我調了一個資料的時候是在於因應不同樣態的火災的應變程序到底有沒有落實"},{"start":6889.037,"end":6914.439,"text":"我覺得這是一點現在的樣態有很多不同的一個火災發生的原因那當然在車廂內我也肯定我也相信高鐵一定有這個嚴格的一個應變的一個措施跟演練但是還是發生了還是曾經發生了所以現在呢我們希望呢高鐵的新董事長上任我覺得安全的問題一定要注意喔那最重要的是呢高鐵"},{"start":6915.62,"end":6932.459,"text":"的這個有沒有辦法針對他現在的一個應變措施在優化我覺得我給時間請董事長是不是把這個納入是在新型的車廂要進來了新型的車廂裡面到底有沒有相關的一個安全的應變措施的優化有嗎"},{"start":6936.6,"end":6952.276,"text":"報告委員新型的車廂還沒有進來啦但是未來的部分當然要先來預作討論那剛剛委員其實有提醒到說火災一樣是火但是樣態可能不一樣所以我們的同仁要有那個知識足夠的知識知道說例如說離電池"},{"start":6954.057,"end":6973.122,"text":"該怎麼處理離電池跟一般的火災其實真的相當的不同你可能用一般的滅火器無法來處理那該怎麼處理那重點我覺得第一重點是第一要務是除了處理那個火災以外第一要務應該是人員的疏散跟安全人員不要出事這個部分要先有這部分的能力"},{"start":6973.442,"end":7002.408,"text":"因為我知道高鐵他行駛的速度相當快所以你他沒有辦法像一般譬如說我們的公車或者是台鐵他可以馬上停站那當然要有一定的規模以上的一個災害的樣態才會停車嘛那所以呢我只是提醒高鐵公司我們現在剛剛我聽到董事長在回答我們即將20年那我們要為未來的10年未來的20年還要再做更"},{"start":7002.908,"end":7021.048,"text":"安全更專業更嚴格的自我要求來提供旅客安全跟快速便利所以這個是未來新型態的一個災害樣態我只是希望說不管是現在或是未來新型車廂進來這個整個包括部長你提示的這個"},{"start":7022.669,"end":7025.452,"text":"火災怎麼應變我知道高鐵現在車廂裡面的這個這個叫什麼滅火器那個滅火器是複合型的任何包括離電池自然也可以適用的那未來的新型車廂是不是也是如此那這個其實是第一要務第二要務"},{"start":7040.729,"end":7068.164,"text":"旅客的安全那怎麼樣的有秩序的一個疏散跟應變所以除了高鐵之外台鐵當然也是鐵道局管的嘛台鐵也是換了新董事長啊台鐵在行動電源的起火裡面也有兩起的案例囉那我們台鐵現在的列車的型號又比高鐵複雜高鐵呢可能比較一致性那台鐵它有很多不同的型號對不對那所以它的"},{"start":7069.425,"end":7088.463,"text":"這個應變機制需要更周全部長同樣的我也希望新的董事長上任除了對於台鐵的這個營運那我希望對於安全專業應該要更能夠從民眾的角度旅客的角度來要維護安全第一嘛部長對不對"},{"start":7089.204,"end":7112.786,"text":"是沒有錯安全絕對是第一要務這個部分我們會來請台鐵公司針對因為現在離電池的人越來越多行動電源的人越來越多所以這件事情可能未來可能還會發生那我們遇到的時候該怎麼應變我覺得台鐵公司跟高鐵公司都要做好萬全的準備尤其是我們同仁的訓練這個部分我們應該要專案下去處理我再跟部長講一件事"},{"start":7113.527,"end":7131.057,"text":"高鐵是比較新發展的運具所以他的智慧系統OK大家肯定但是台鐵沒有台鐵區間車跟自強號跟新自強號新自強號是新型的列車所以如果一旦發生事故"},{"start":7132.277,"end":7159.353,"text":"這個警示鈴的訊號可以直接連線列車長的他的那個運具上面可以自動連線他馬上就智慧系統啟動他看得到也知道事故發生在哪一個列車哪一個點可是呢除了新志強號之外區間車跟志強號是都沒有的喔他的警示鈴的設置系統是老的、古的他可能只有在列車長室才看得到可能是哪一個列車車廂"},{"start":7160.814,"end":7188.003,"text":"出了事情其他呢如果列車長不在現場他就不知道那當然你會看到有的區間車呢他的警示鈴按下去之後呢是全系列的車廂都會廣播可是他廣播他也沒有告訴列車長說是在哪一個地方發生了事故我們台鐵的車廂是一點都不智慧化那在這個情況之下我們怎麼幫台鐵部長"},{"start":7190.253,"end":7206.418,"text":"是 報告委員這個是舊車廂啦目前大部分都是舊車廂啦那當然一方面我們的這個列車長一定知道他的車廂目前的設計是這個樣子所以他當然會特別去追問他必須要一個一個詢對他必須要一個一個詢他一定知道現在的這個狀況所以他沒有辦法及時啊他要一個車廂一個車廂走一個車廂一個車廂損損到他才知道發生什麼事情在哪裡發生那他才能夠處理那所以一點都不及時"},{"start":7220.083,"end":7233.129,"text":"那我們的舊車廂如果沒有要很短期時間之內汰換的話是不是有可能我們去研究一下有沒有什麼樣的即時的系統委員在提醒的這個我覺得非常值得去做研究非常值得去做因為我們已經在2023看到媒體的報導搭火車緊鄰從彰化翔到台中列車長都不知道那另外2024媒體報導這個當然說他的廁所的求助理是波兒哥倫敦橋"},{"start":7249.076,"end":7268.16,"text":"重點不再是撥兒歌 重點是它是一個廣播系統廣播系統雖然讓旅客跟列車長知道但是呢 發生什麼事情 發生在哪裡列車長 也是要一樣一個一個選所以它沒有辦法即時處理喔那這個就是安全的問題這個是安全的問題 跟應變應變有沒有即時 應變有沒有效率的問題喔這是安全 所以部長"},{"start":7276.281,"end":7302.142,"text":"提醒我們高鐵台鐵都換新動作我們希望安全的這件事情第一個要科技化第二個我們希望他專業化第三個我們希望真的在人員的訓練上面應變措施等等都要及時更新跟得上時代的腳步啦好不好好謝謝謝謝委員部長那這樣子需要多久時間要台鐵研議你們研議大概要多少時間"},{"start":7304.406,"end":7306.987,"text":"謝謝何新淳委員的執行現在請習富奎委員執行那跟大會特別報告洪孟凱委員執行完畢我們休息十分鐘現在請習富奎委員執行"},{"start":7335.653,"end":7363.431,"text":"謝謝主席 有請我們陳部長來 陳部長委員好部長早部長我想我們先來關心一個時事題是之前部長有跟 特別跟我們國防部的顧部長是有提到7月1號之後我們軍人搭機的部分能夠有優先的一個登機的禮遇是 沒錯"},{"start":7364.091,"end":7391.133,"text":"那軍卷列為下一個研議的對象有這個方案嗎我們目前正在研議當中我們也參考美國的案例他們的這個軍卷可以帶一位軍卷可以帶一位軍卷那這個部分我們也是在跟國防部討論要如何去認定因為這個認定蠻重要的要確認真的它是軍卷那目前所聽起來國防部他們會有這方面的識別的系統那如果有的話其實這個部分我們就可以來進行好"},{"start":7391.613,"end":7411.733,"text":"那部長我想我們也要提到一個比較謹慎的國安問題因為我想最近我們也看到很多這個中共這個不斷滲透這個我們的包含退役軍人也好 限職軍人也好那我們這樣子的一個機制當然這個是對我們軍人的一個禮遇但是會不會變成這樣子的一個情質這個資訊"},{"start":7413.494,"end":7430.299,"text":"會被他們竊取之後變成另外一個被滲透的一個對象我們有沒有考慮過這個點報告委員這個部分我們跟國防部討論的過程當中有討論過也理解說這個部分其實很重要第一軍人的身份不要被別人掌握這個很重要"},{"start":7430.979,"end":7456.879,"text":"那第二飛機上到底有多少軍人這個也不要被掌握那這個部分呢其實我們有跟國防部討論過之後我們到時候的識別的模式對於軍人來講他只要拿出他的識別證我們的人員有看到就好但我們不會做登記或者是登錄因為你登記或登錄他的身份可能就顯露出來那這個部分我們會特別注意所以針對他的個資的部分我們也會特別注意所以這個部分請委員放心"},{"start":7457.259,"end":7481.585,"text":"對 部長說我想這部分我們還是必須跟國防部來做審慎的一個演繹這是一個利益良善的一個制度但是我們也擔心變成被滲透的一個管道這要注意一下是 所以我們在飛機上也不會特別註記說哪個位置是軍人這個註記的部分不會做只是看他的識別證就可以了好 謝謝那我們再接著我們再請台鐵政董事長還有高鐵司董事長 謝謝"},{"start":7489.773,"end":7516.771,"text":"那個鄭董事長還有石董事長來兩位董事長恭喜我們都就任了那我想這個鐵道運輸是我們現在目前我們台灣的我們的鄉親這個通勤很重要的一個命脈也是包含旅遊跟經濟發展的一個命脈那因為我們立法院之前三讀通過的一個身心障礙權益保障法我們未來會把公共運輸的博愛座改更為優先優先席並將這個老弱婦孺的"},{"start":7520.073,"end":7547.554,"text":"部分修正為身心障礙者還有其他有需要的那兩位董事長我們後續針對我們車廂一個設施我們預估要花多少時間多少經費來做改善可以請兩個董事長說明一下嗎是 跟委員報告我們新車的部分呢其實我們已經把這個已經改成優先洗了那舊的車子的話我們馬上來按照這個現在訂的方式來做那首先要開落過的時間"},{"start":7550.878,"end":7561.89,"text":"我們今年年底前可以把這個工作做好年底了那高鐵部分董事長我們一旦這個細部的這個圖案跟標示統一公佈之後我們隨即會配合來辦理"},{"start":7562.972,"end":7580.707,"text":"所以我們一樣都會加快來配合辦理是那部長那除了高鐵跟台鐵之外那客運的部分也有這樣一個問題存在那客運的部分有沒有同步要做處理報告委員當然啦就是大家一體適用我們的這個立法院的這個立法過程三讀通過完之後"},{"start":7581.507,"end":7600.24,"text":"那該配合的執法交通部會來配合因為像在立法院這個是未還委員會他們那邊的他們負責的啦那不是在我們交委會但執法的修訂我們交通部會來配合那當交通部的這個執法修訂完成之後各個運具系統大家就會來配合修訂"},{"start":7601.201,"end":7619.575,"text":"因為我們也擔心之前為了這個搶博愛做也發生很多的這個斟酌的一個狀況我們也擔心未來也必須要把這個制度應該說清楚講明白對沒錯不然大家為了衝一下圍把人造成一些治安的問題也不好是是那這部分再麻煩我們再掌握一下狀況加速來完成好"},{"start":7619.855,"end":7646.506,"text":"那我想那個高鐵董事長這個石董事長過去人家都把你額額頂指望但是我們現在看到這個高鐵還是有一些的問題發生董事長這個現在每到週末禮拜五或是連假高鐵一票難求這個甚至人家說比演唱會的票更難買啦針對這樣的一個狀況你上任之後有沒有什麼樣的一個革新或是經濟的一個做法"},{"start":7646.969,"end":7661.134,"text":"是 我想對我們跟你們一樣都是南部出身的會感受特別深那我也必須承認這個未來兩年是一個必須共體時間的時刻因為我們要兩年之後這個高鐵20週年的時候我想新車才能夠正式加入營運"},{"start":7662.054,"end":7677.627,"text":"那在這裡跟大家這個承諾我們會盡一切的努力來確保它如期如止的上路來解決整體的需求那這兩年當中事實上高鐵已經採取非常多的措施來疏散來疏解這個五六日的這個尖峰"},{"start":7678.388,"end":7698.282,"text":"那除了說在車站配合部長的指示我們有這個前進指揮所來針對特別尖峰的時刻這個人潮的這個規劃引導之外事實上我們也希望說能夠把這個乘車能夠均化能夠不要大家全部都集中在同一個時刻而且我們機動性的加班事實上都一直在進行"},{"start":7699.162,"end":7711.169,"text":"所以我想這個近期採取這些措施之後事實上在幾個關鍵的時刻點尤其是禮拜五的下班時間事實上人潮確實是我們還是近期可能讓大家返鄉"},{"start":7712.508,"end":7735.037,"text":"那我想另外針對這個我們新幹線這個周邊他們整個這個商業發展非常的旺盛那也帶動了很多的這個產業經濟那董事長針對你的想法我們現在高鐵那麼多的站體那因為都一般都放在比較偏僻的地方那未來怎麼樣藉由這個軌道經濟能夠帶動一個經濟的發展產業的發展董事長有什麼想法"},{"start":7738.898,"end":7761.88,"text":"我想這不完全是高鐵的權責不過跟高鐵有相關我想整個TOD廠站的開發其實對於高鐵能夠均衡台灣尤其是在比較非都會區是一個非常重要的課題我想除了既有高鐵跟大家廠商之間的對接我們會來努力我想這好幾個站體我們其實都有連通道的計畫我想這個部分我們會強化來進行"},{"start":7763.041,"end":7782.059,"text":"董事長我想我們現在很多的觀光業者他們也期待搭上你們高鐵駕騎的列車啦是這部分能不能有效的再結合更多的業者能夠讓更多的業者能夠這個大家是一個一條龍的一個旅遊服務嗎是怎麼樣能夠增加方便性今天委員特別提示之後我們也特別會回來再進行檢討我想"},{"start":7784.48,"end":7797.786,"text":"我們平日的這個這個搭乘率大概是六成左右我們希望能夠把平日的這個搭乘率的空缺跟這個高鐵假期以及各方面的聯票再強化有些優化時段跟優化的票價應該可以再重新調整我們會來檢討"},{"start":7800.307,"end":7824.185,"text":"除了高鐵假期之外台鐵假期也是未來必須要發展的所以如果您有旅行業者的好朋友可以的話未來也跟台鐵來做這方面的結合非常多啦 但是他們都說我們的條件太嚴苛了是不是能夠稍微來開放一下讓更多的業者可以來加入我想雙鐵都會努力來配合所有的觀光業者好 那我想最後請教鄭董事長"},{"start":7826.438,"end":7847.991,"text":"我們在今年的1月25號我們發了一個新聞稿針對這個EMU3000型的座椅的優化的部分我們經過了這個全台五個車站的巡迴試坐已經票選出這個優化衣的部分那這個案子目前的進度什麼時候可以全面更新完成"},{"start":7851.243,"end":7877.521,"text":"我們在第一邊組因為在今年年底前完成然後我們再經過兩個月的試程然後我們如果大家都覺得OK的話那我們就會全面性的把它再按照所以還要再測試一次是的 我們還要看因為主要就是大家對這個是不是足夠符合這個舒適那我們還是要看實際上的狀況來說"},{"start":7880.824,"end":7893.611,"text":"董事長但是我看你們的新聞稿裡面包含你們這個所有的票選的結果甚至你們還感謝鄉親這個還有抽獎譬如說這個案子已經完成啊為什麼還會有這樣的狀況呢"},{"start":7894.844,"end":7921.516,"text":"我們基本上這個是第一邊組我們希望是按照這個票選的結果來做但是我們還是給自己一個空間說經過兩個月的這個試程以後是不是確實是達到當時預期的這個效果那我想我們還是尊重旅客經濟旅客然後我們再開始來進行董事長我知道我聽說過去我們台鐵這邊有一個叫做美學小組是"},{"start":7923.213,"end":7949.246,"text":"聽說這個議案美學小組給了很多的意見這個意見到底是好或不好 董事長你個人認為呢我想這部分也是這幾天我跟大家在檢討那美學小組我個人感覺就是說可能他從美學的角度但是他有沒有考慮到人體工學這個是一個我們要在這次裡面確實的把它把兩者能夠做一個平衡"},{"start":7950.994,"end":7975.634,"text":"我想我們都尊重專業啦 董事長 我想你也是這個心態過去你在高鐵服務的時候 我想帶動了一個整個高鐵的一個好的一個文化那石董事長就這樣順著腳嘛 未來繼續做一些好的改革那一樣 我相信杜董事長在卸任之前做了這個改革之後我們也期待這個 這進度要加快啦不然我們鄉親不是坐在醫院也沒有鬆開啦"},{"start":7977.055,"end":7999.274,"text":"應該要把這個時程再提早趕快進行來完成啦既然我們都已經走到這個階段呢應該是要趕快接著進行下去啦還有什麼特別的考量好我們按照這個努力的看能不能把這個第一組的編程看能不能提前來完成然後整個確實這個全面的推動的話也能夠把它提早完成這樣"},{"start":8000.389,"end":8025.027,"text":"對 然後另外我還要提一個 剛剛我跟那個我們王宜春委員在說我們在找的插頭的問題也很難聽那個插座真的必須要再調整過啦美學小組思考的點是站在這個整個美觀人體工學的考量但是有實用嗎 真的要去思考一下不能照單全收啦是 這一次這個會把這個插頭的問題在這一次一起考慮在內"},{"start":8026.247,"end":8034.163,"text":"我想我們要提供一個安全舒適的環境這也是大家一起要努力的目標這部分也拜託部長督促一下加快進行 謝謝"},{"start":8038.514,"end":8057.51,"text":"好 謝謝徐護魁委員的執行現在請魯明哲委員執行特別跟大家報告洪孟楷委員執行完畢休息十分鐘洪孟楷委員執行完畢休息十分鐘現在請魯明哲委員執行"},{"start":8064.367,"end":8077.519,"text":"謝謝主席 也有請我們交通部陳部長台鐵政董事長跟我們高鐵石董事長好 高鐵石董事長 政董事長我也好"},{"start":8079.611,"end":8101.476,"text":"三位我想這樣直接進入主題啦因為我特別看到6月17號這個台灣民意基金會做了一個民調針對我們賴總統的七項特質來詢問一下民意嘛我想這個部分大家都人民是頭家到底民意怎麼樣去看那我們發覺調查的一個結果有優的 有好的 有不好的"},{"start":8102.236,"end":8123.342,"text":"所以我們特別發覺跟今天主題因為我們不是要評論這七個特質我們發覺很有趣的說最差的就是民眾認為不肯定的最差的兩個倒數第一個倒數第一名當然就是政黨合作那就這個不是今天主題倒數第二名就是你相不相信這個賴總統誘人為財我講的不是賴總統他是最終負責者"},{"start":8127.663,"end":8144.388,"text":"不管是你行政院也好但外交部最近這個如果這個至少有5%外交部要負責外交部啊派誰派誰去到駐外派的其實你們覺得這還有理由但是很多民眾想不通那我們再想交通部"},{"start":8145.7,"end":8161.276,"text":"在這個基礎上面會不會有什麼貢獻因為現在這個部分就是給你們做參考啦因為畢竟我們部長以前也是跟在我們賴總統身邊的那民意這樣的一個反響我覺得你們要拿去做參考那我就請教一下這個"},{"start":8163.378,"end":8179.106,"text":"陳部長我想先問一下台鐵的振動市場振動市場在我們高鐵這個可以講說很多年的一個資歷跟經驗那你會用它到台鐵的話主要的一個用意你說一下吧"},{"start":8179.426,"end":8194.256,"text":"好 報告委員我在思考這個人的安排的部分我們先思考的是那個單位未來的發展的需求是什麼在台鐵公司化之後他需要有專業的經理人可以讓他公司化的體質要先做好"},{"start":8194.716,"end":8214.17,"text":"那二方面要有這個安全的經驗因為大家對於台鐵的安全的要求非常的高那所以就這兩點我們來思考說哪樣的人是適合的那我就特別拜託鄭董事長因為他在鐵道安全方面的經驗我相信高鐵大家都看得到他的成績"},{"start":8215.271,"end":8239.712,"text":"那另外針對這個專業經理人的部分跟公司化的部分我認為過去在高鐵的經驗或者是在長榮集團的經驗非常的豐富鄭董事長我所理解的話大概人生中大部分時間都是專業經理人那這個部分如果來帶領台鐵邁入公司化的第二年讓它更加企業化這個部分我認為鄭董事長是做得到的"},{"start":8239.932,"end":8265.235,"text":"好 這個部長簡單來說事實上是借中他的長財我們就是重用嘛是是這樣還是隨便是重用嗎報告員當然是重用這很重要喔因為台鐵這個部分問題是非常多台鐵第一他的問題比較複雜一些但是他的這個每天的運量接近70萬對國家來說這個運據大概是台灣目前最重要的所以這個重責大任好 那我請鄭董事長"},{"start":8267.577,"end":8293.594,"text":"這個聽到我們部長是這個整個重用那應該有重責大任那我覺得因為在台鐵我跟王一山委員我們都從桃園上車說真的我們對台鐵基本上也是比較肯定不管你的企業文化包括服務的品質跟準點當然快速就不用講你們的準點等等的我覺得這個你過去在這個高鐵都做得還不錯那你現在把經驗帶過來這個帶進來"},{"start":8296.896,"end":8313.616,"text":"那我要提醒你一件事啦待會你再幫我做個結論就算你要帶進來那你可以把你的從這個高鐵的經驗帶到台鐵來但是台鐵有很多的不同我們先講很多的不同幾個最重要的不同很簡單"},{"start":8315.131,"end":8333.1,"text":"台鐵的高鐵的主要車型基本上就是一款然後新款是車進來它基本上它就是一款的一個車型然後速度什麼都一樣那到了台鐵公司大概超過20種類型的車型有快有慢有載人有載貨"},{"start":8334.361,"end":8361.936,"text":"各式各樣的甚至有觀光的完全不同的速度它的功能所以這個部分是這是台鐵公司不一樣的地方第二個戰術你因為每一個戰術你都會有一個站長你知道地方這個人事管理負以重責的大任他在地方的這個諸侯他到底有沒有這個能力啊還是像台北車站我不知道為什麼會有這麼激動的員工我覺得你知道我在講什麼嗎我知道"},{"start":8362.236,"end":8383.055,"text":"我們現在就是這個游遊卡怎麼弄那個我覺得好可怕喔那我這個也不是重點有點歇斯底里啊為什麼這樣的人才在第一線我覺得很怪因為有些不適合第一線的也沒有問題嘛他可以把它放在比較幕僚的一個單位所以這個部分12站這是高鐵的"},{"start":8384.366,"end":8407.387,"text":"台鐵有242站 哇 將近超過20倍而且呢AAPC各種級的站完全不一樣所以我們希望真的提醒你然後平交道的數量 簡單來說高鐵就像如果說我們在 它是一個管制的道路不是地下化 就是高價化它基本上是一個管制的領域上在那邊開"},{"start":8408.368,"end":8435.603,"text":"所以除了那種很怪的事件發生之外它大概是一個封閉型的一個區塊可是你現在在換道了換道的一個是平交道全台灣有415個平交道有人會經過 有車會經過這不一樣的我希望你這邊把好的經驗 企業文化帶過來你要馬上知道有什麼不一樣那營業里程當然也差很多啦而且因為里程差很多的話代表"},{"start":8436.523,"end":8462.036,"text":"這個有些在山上地質有地震帶這個都是高鐵沒有的所以員工數大概也將近四倍你說一下好不好其實你在這裡有很多豐富的一個經驗但在台鐵又很多不一樣你大概有沒有一個重點說一下基本上我想到高鐵這邊到台鐵這邊最重要還是要讓安全還有準點"},{"start":8462.976,"end":8485.986,"text":"還有辯解這個事情你所需要的我們趕快做那安全裡面我們現在希望的是說現在譬如說我們去年發生了異常事件總共九百幾十一件我怎麼樣把這個九百一千分門背壘的然後能夠把它當下來我想這個是很重要就是對安全那這又怎麼樣呢譬如說這裡面剛才委員提到了這麼多的人你怎麼去我們現在分成"},{"start":8487.006,"end":8512.121,"text":"北 中 南 東四個區那這四區裡面我們裡面都有運物 有公務 有機務那這些人怎麼樣整合配合我們的運物配合我們的整個車輛我們整個台鐵裡面我們有三大主軸我們從七堵到潮州這西部走廊一條線然後我們又有南回從我們的左營到台東"},{"start":8513.081,"end":8541.916,"text":"那就是北回我們有從這個樹林一直到宜蘭花蓮到台東那這三個大動脈再加上一個很重要的我們現在在推展的區域的這個從台中到台北那這一部分的話那這個部分我們要用什麼車要花多少班次我們會用我們的這個OD pair好 曾董曾董今天你的報告我有從頭到尾從頭到尾我是真的給你建議有些不同的部分但是重點"},{"start":8542.856,"end":8559.012,"text":"你也知道人對了事情大概就對了七八成那現在的狀況剛剛看到最後這個高鐵大概4800多人大概人數到了台鐵人數大概將近四倍那這四倍不是數字的差別是裡面企業文化完全不一樣"},{"start":8559.997,"end":8583.63,"text":"一千一萬五千多人從公務體系移過去的就傳統的公務文化從選才育才用才留才你們是從民生企業的概念高鐵公司這裡完全不一樣現在移過去而且他高層的主管全部都是以前的公務人員好啦這是你要面對的挑戰接下來我們這個請施董事長"},{"start":8586.884,"end":8613.654,"text":"這樣的這個高鐵公司因為正好鄭董事長也在這這個台灣高鐵近年的營運旅客人數跟營運的績效我覺得大家都講KPI我們做多少努力最後不是在顯示在你的本業上面有多少人來坐車了有沒有增加有沒有減少他的營業額到底有沒有增加我覺得這個東西是一個指標性的這個部分那部長也在這裡部長"},{"start":8614.654,"end":8637.6,"text":"在這些年限中間其實你最多的時間是在做台中市議員所以我們在討論這個脈絡的時候我要跟董事長跟部長特別說因為鄭光英董事長不用說了他是經歷這十幾年的人各位看到104年105年因為奇怪他的人次向下面看才五千多萬人次"},{"start":8640.465,"end":8667.065,"text":"為什麼它的營業額這麼高因為那一年進行財改政府又投資了300億進來很多的業外收入在這邊呈現其他的部分都是跟旅客人數來成長所以經過了他們經過了大概104年、105年的一個大財改財務危機也謝謝當時這個我想你們後段都有參加那在整個經歷第二個經歷了疫情的挑戰"},{"start":8668.388,"end":8696.247,"text":"所以在很多的這個部分是他們的成績單先講他們這個整個拼了十幾年的成績單有沒有成果成果就是旅客比一百零三年增加百分之六三從四千八百零二萬到去年的七千八百多萬我覺得肯定我肯定那誰知的他的營業收入也增加了那我就想請教這個直接是施董事長"},{"start":8697.648,"end":8715.859,"text":"那你要在這個基礎上在這個肩膀上你還往哪去你主要的方向是什麼 重點好 謝謝委員非常精闢的分析我想做一個公司他每年當然對他的這個旅客的成長都是有預估的那我們像我們今年來講我們當然是因為疫情爆發的"},{"start":8716.519,"end":8732.493,"text":"之後我剛剛也報告裡面有講說它爆發的成長率有6% 7%但是到今年我們的預估的成長率是3點多所以它確實是有一個疫情之後爆發的趨緩所以你的特長可以帶來什麼可以帶來什麼成長你可以注入什麼因素"},{"start":8733.533,"end":8758.918,"text":"是 我想整體的綜合性的行政管理是接下來高鐵未來兩年我們在面對新車上路之前一個很重要的一個工作因為其實新車上路不只是行控系統的提升我們後勤 檢修 維修等體都要相關搭配我想這個是一個蠻龐大的工程才能夠讓它如期如止的上路而新車的加入才會是高鐵新的一個階段的發展"},{"start":8760.165,"end":8781.85,"text":"老師 董事長你講這個的 剛剛講的這幾個項目剛好都不是部長在透過了媒體電視來說你的特長的這個部分他已經說其實公務背景就有總經理來挺然後大概你就主要行銷方面很多的一個文化行銷特色你剛剛沒有講這個部分我只是跟你建議"},{"start":8782.93,"end":8800.658,"text":"如果這個沒有變成KPI值就是弄完之後明年還比較少了這是我們檢驗你我們先未來檢驗你這個方向在這裡因為畢竟不是我一位委員說包括天下雜誌很多媒體很多民眾甚至交通業的軌道的一個專家都在擔心一件事"},{"start":8801.298,"end":8824.983,"text":"在過去你的整個從政的一個經歷至少八到九成是文科的啦跟公務的接觸比較少一點看過你做過新聞處長文化這個局長也做過文化部長很多這個部分我們知道文化類你是很強我們也希望你注入這個讓高鐵透過這個領域再往上面成長這個是大家的擔心但是我要提醒你"},{"start":8825.763,"end":8847.879,"text":"那這個部長你來回答一下好不好你說重用鄭董事長其實鄭董事長說真的為了國家可能付出一輩子就是我一毛錢不要也可以我也聽過這樣的人可是你知道嗎在這個社會去評價一個人尤其在公務體系的時候有很多包括成就感我理解包括頭銜"},{"start":8849.881,"end":8863.292,"text":"但是薪水你知道嗎是他他老婆最care的他家庭很care我覺得這是一個指標嘛剛剛講了這麼多比較沒有經驗的來去努力一下但非常努力的結果現在"},{"start":8864.284,"end":8889.952,"text":"平均的月薪我們是拿江董事長過去8年包括疫情時間可以領到660萬所以最低55萬月薪加獎金整個因為我們儲蓄總署也是這樣的規劃所以儲蓄總署每年公布什麼最低薪資5萬我們都嚇一跳他是不管把夯不啷啷全部弄在一起你現在直接如果沒有修改任何一個規定的話大概可以領到50到70萬看當年的一個業績"},{"start":8893.976,"end":8910.457,"text":"那但是可以很明確的台鐵董事長啊台鐵董事長因為兩邊都是我們都有看到你們一個報表嘛他大概就22萬到25萬所以說現在兩個董事長啊你重責大任重用他重用他的薪水大概降2.5倍"},{"start":8912.042,"end":8929.693,"text":"大概兩倍以上那所以我也不要比這個誰好誰壞你知道嗎我是不是能夠你們告訴我你告訴我你拿這麼多錢這麼多的一個金額我為什麼肯定之前江董跟我們鄭總為什麼你拼了十年我看到了"},{"start":8930.646,"end":8952.43,"text":"他從4800多萬人一年拼到了7000我肯定嘛你有拼起來所以你今天來要把過去10年每一年可以多頂幾百萬的業績獎金你要順便拿到口袋走的時候你要告訴我你要告訴我這兩個KPI你要把高鐵公司帶到哪裡去如果都沒有都沒有"},{"start":8953.8,"end":8978.623,"text":"都沒有我跟你講這個部長如果都沒有如果都沒有的話到最後壓力就是你們了所以我想施董事長是不是這樣好不好你能不能回去考慮一下直接承諾一下啦人剛到新生入學你如果光領董事長的薪資啊也高於這個高於那個台鐵董事長就是說今年的獎金都不領好不好好好做"},{"start":8979.624,"end":9001.897,"text":"我們在這個基礎上面 成績單出來只要有超過一個人 你再來領今天不知道王委員會不會見 總是要拚出來嘛這個可不可以啊要不要期許一下不要啦 我要他講啦 給他講 我還是給他講石董是吧可不可以 這個今年的獎金不領可不可以因為你才剛上任嘛 大家質疑你標準都一致的"},{"start":9007.719,"end":9027.675,"text":"來 謝謝委員 我想有關於KPI的部分交通部事實上對於交通部所屬的事業單位都有訂定PAPI也是依照這個KPI來決定績效獎金發放的等級剛剛您上面的數字應該不是交通部現在核定的這個薪資酬勞的金額所以我想這個資資本來就你現在薪資核定的金額一個月多少"},{"start":9028.475,"end":9053.295,"text":"坦白講應該是不到40萬不到40萬獎金呢獎金就是要依照年終的這個來報來看啦好啦好謝謝啦我跟你講上面你寫那麼清楚了嗎還要倒回來看嗎薪資加獎金嘛加獎金嘛那你獎金是不是過去拚的因為人次以營業額來算這是過去別人拚了10年的結果拚的人就在你左後方啊"},{"start":9054.216,"end":9076.606,"text":"就在你左後方啊你要不要獎金先不領嘛拚一年再說嘛夠小卡好嘛就這樣而已啊那一個月40萬還不夠嗎一定的規定都是照規定在走的我知道啦他是上市櫃公司他有一定的公司你不要說我沒有經驗一站就是站一個月領50萬60萬的嘛你讓民眾啊我跟你講我今天講不是我的問題你們自己去好好考謝謝"},{"start":9078.564,"end":9107.14,"text":"好 謝謝魯明哲委員的執行現在請洪孟楷委員執行洪孟楷委員執行完畢休息十分鐘主席謝謝 麻煩請陳部長我們陳董事長還有我們鐵道局楊局長好 鐵道局楊局長兩位董事長還沒有正董事長正董事長"},{"start":9110.097,"end":9139.187,"text":"委員好 好 部長好 來 鄭董事長跟鐵道局局長 來 請來 鄭董事長 我先請教一下本來以為說要幫你點播一首陶金營的太委屈啊那當然你今天早上又說不委屈啊那 大家說好話啦 新官上任齁 做一做啦但是 我想先請教 十年的高鐵人可不可以講一下說 你覺得現在的新任的石董事長你覺得有哪裡是比你更優質的地方"},{"start":9140.556,"end":9166.616,"text":"讓你覺得是說可以勝任高鐵的這個董事長工作我想這個對這部分我沒有評論沒有評論我想石董事長他那部長在找您就說要從高鐵轉換台鐵的時候你那時候有沒有問過說誰來接高鐵我並沒有這樣的也沒有問也不知道說誰來接高鐵反正部長找你是部長跟您談"},{"start":9167.745,"end":9192.128,"text":"是的部長跟你談就是說你雖然今年一月才從十年的總經理扶正變成董事長但是現在要你去接台鐵燙手三欲確實是部長有跟我講這樣的事情然後你也沒有問說那到底誰來接高鐵我沒有問沒有問那現在揭曉了你也不覺得有任何的奇怪"},{"start":9192.847,"end":9217.055,"text":"我想重點是這樣來過來也不會重點是說我被這個指派的這個任務呢我是不是有能力去做這個事情好董事長我非常肯定您過去的專業我也認為說您現在願意來台鐵這個是要把台鐵整頓好台鐵我們很期待所以你提到三個部分安全準點以及便捷"},{"start":9217.655,"end":9239.394,"text":"這一點本期肯定 但要怎麼做來 先請教現在台鐵也是有多事之秋啦不管是現在漲價的部分 或者是說站務員對旅客咆哮還是說其實更多是很多的乘客有一些乘客真的會有攻擊站務員的狀況這也過去時有所聞嘛 對不對那你要怎麼樣來做"},{"start":9241.78,"end":9266.758,"text":"會讓台鐵人覺得你可以真真正正跟台鐵人站在一起並且保護台鐵人我想最重要的成果我剛才也報告這個一定要告訴我們的所有的員工我們是做的是運輸服務業那運輸服務業最重要的是要旅客的需求為導向旅客最重要的就是安全嘛最重要的就是準點嘛那就方便便捷嘛"},{"start":9267.378,"end":9296.301,"text":"那在這個部分的話呢我們一定要努力來做那但是呢這個所有事情要做成一定是要員工來做的我也認為要有一個滿意的顧客的話一定要先有一個快樂的員工所以在快樂的員工之下呢我要一定要很care我的員工呢他是不是能夠足夠的安心所以他的福利這些呢是我要努力的一個重點福利努力的部分我有看到你上禮拜有跟台鐵工會有先做過座談了是那"},{"start":9296.841,"end":9321.446,"text":"是企業工會嘛對不對企業工會是那產業工會有沒有考慮要做談我想我們來看因為目前來看我們先從企業工會來所以產業工會還沒有安排目前還沒有好那各地咧各地的員工因為看到你們秀出的資料也是幾位代表嘛那各地的員工有沒有現在要去做一個整個來去做了解"},{"start":9321.886,"end":9349.427,"text":"有的 我們陸續的會 計畫是什麼陸續的會到各區去像我上禮拜的話呢第三 第三天的話上週第三我就到那個台東去那台東去那邊的話就是有來自於各地的我們這個壘球隊的代表那事實上也是代表著整個我們全國代表你現在是行動治理嘛來 那請教那個工會這邊有提出來說希望能夠提高待遇的部分你怎麼看"},{"start":9350.356,"end":9366.783,"text":"我想他提出來的這部分的話有兩個我想我們馬上可以來處理的一個就是我們的這個夜間津貼的部分我覺得這個確實這個夜間津貼一個小時120塊其實太低了是那這部分還遠低於現在10星"},{"start":9367.563,"end":9386.29,"text":"是因為整個十幾年前訂的嘛那第二個呢就是我們的這個主管的加擠這一部分我覺得主管加擠這一部分現在也是跟市場的這個行情差太多所以我這兩部分的話呢那員工的話這個尤其在基層的這個夜間今天能夠安他們的心"},{"start":9386.75,"end":9402.092,"text":"另外在這個主管津貼的話最主要是我們尤其是中間幹部他們很需要這個津貼來鼓勵他們否則的話像我們現在一個問題就是說我們有90%的員工還是原來的所謂的有公務員資格的"},{"start":9403.294,"end":9418.973,"text":"但是只有新人的話轉正只有10%那這個10%跟這個裡面的話你一定要有一個激勵的作用那麼才能夠抓住他們的心我認為說一定要把我們的我這個內部各個就是我們的員工能夠把他們的整個環境"},{"start":9421.917,"end":9444.773,"text":"工資的是友善職場做好以後讓員工能夠得到說這個公司是很care我們的那他才能夠服務旅客是啊 董事長 但是你講了半天你還是沒有講清楚這個夜間加急跟這個津貼120元要怎麼調整我們現在提出來 多久能夠調整我們現在再提出來 也跟公費這邊再討論這個我們會盡快的來定案標準是什麼"},{"start":9450.502,"end":9469.83,"text":"標準就是我希望至少就是說我們的物價指數十年來這個物價指數應該是最合理的最低的門檻讓我們用這樣來做過去我知道我們要增加薪水的時候用人費用跟我們的營收的占比有一個上限在那邊"},{"start":9470.53,"end":9490.47,"text":"這是我們的handicap但是因為今年開始我們調整票價以後我們平均收的話我們分母變大了所以我們這個上限就會有空間好 本席也正想問因為才剛調整完票價不會因為這個夜間的加急以及津貼再調整之後又要再調整票價不會啦不會不會啦 這你保證啦好"},{"start":9491.69,"end":9506.509,"text":"台鐵的管理我們給時間但是要看到成績便捷安全跟準點最基本的要求這一點不過分所以拜託鄭董事長這邊一定要說到做到我全力以赴"},{"start":9507.33,"end":9530.29,"text":"來抱歉部長時間比較有限但是還是兩個問題跟我們地方有相關我一定要跟您就教雙城巴士上國道這個部分是本席過去一起爭取很久從去年前年我想質詢的時候你也承諾那現在已經有曙光是說預計今年年底會上路有可能那但是雙城巴士的部分造價比較高一台可能將近兩千萬"},{"start":9531.331,"end":9556.046,"text":"那有些業者開始在講是說那現在是不是比照現行巴士也有補貼的部分來做一些相關補貼我們有沒有相關辦法報告委員我們公共運輸計畫裡面會放進來是所以這個部分的補貼我們會盡量來協助業者因為我現在也有聽到業者在反映對這個政策即便是上路了他們的成本是個問題那另外就是說但是未來可以再我們想說"},{"start":9557.424,"end":9579.567,"text":"優勢是大於劣勢嘛第一載的量乘客人數多大家可以上車的多也減少車體的空間所以說對於國道的通暢度減能減碳碳排也會降低所以這個政策我們是支持而且我們在往前推進那委員在關心的這個對業者的補助的部分我們的供應計畫裡面也都會來提供補助"},{"start":9579.827,"end":9606.103,"text":"不要說到最後過了可以上路了可是一直一台都沒看到因為太貴了買不起這個部分我會盡量來協助不過到底要不要買車還是由業者來決定是 但我們的補助辦法會在今年年底上路之前一起出來這個會同步因為它是公共運輸嘛那公共運輸的部分我們該有的補助都會有好 但至少是跟現行的巴士一般巴士的補助的比例是一致的這個部分我們會來討論來 部長另外再請教"},{"start":9609.545,"end":9623.457,"text":"本席的選區以及橫跨整個新北市的太阪輕軌最近第四次可行性評估被推薦第四次它橫跨的是泰山新莊板橋土城中和"},{"start":9624.266,"end":9646.744,"text":"其實這幾個地方都是光聽名稱地名就是人口密集的地方那第四次可行性評估退回去年本席在請教跟質詢的時候就已經有要求說是不是承諾一個月內匯集相關的審查單位我們跟新北市政府也講清楚到底現在評審委員關心care的點是哪一些一次讓新北市政府補齊啊"},{"start":9647.745,"end":9662.547,"text":"可是這一次的推薦理由上一次推薦理由是說跟六四線太近影響六四的維修補強主要理由這一次又說要請新北市在舊土地開發效應納入附屬的事業收入一律"},{"start":9663.803,"end":9678.33,"text":"那這理由就又不一致啦上一次是說維修困難這一次是說這個效益太低或是說收入可能不符合支出你不能把周邊土地開發給納入但是其他的軌道建設有沒有這樣的一個評估其實也都有嘛"},{"start":9679.17,"end":9707.447,"text":"所有的軌道運輸這些評估都放在同步啦那也跟委員報告一下有一個資訊就是說我們針對土地開發效益還有它的附屬事業的收入的這個疑慮在最早的時候就已經有提出不是這一次才提出最早的時候就已經有提出那這幾次的修訂的過程當中應該是新北市政府那邊針對這一項它的說明跟它的這個修正做得還不足所以這一次我們又再提出了一次"},{"start":9708.047,"end":9729.006,"text":"是那但是我本席在講的是說這一些都是通盤的部分是是那本來一個軌道的建設整個市的開發大眾的使用運輸的狀況我們都需要大家來做一個討論嘛對沒錯那所以說本席才上一次才會講是說是不是請匯集各單位到底你最care點是哪一點"},{"start":9729.907,"end":9739.037,"text":"那現在本席先確認因為你也講部長你也講說從第一次就有土地效益的部分那一直到這第四次所以現在土地效益是最大的問題"},{"start":9740.33,"end":9764.198,"text":"收入就是運量的收入跟土地效益不能劃等號就不要混為一談那如果說能夠克服這一點是不是其他部分就沒有問題目前你不能第三次的時候跟我們講是說是因為64線太近影響64線的維修補強我想每一次的修正的這個提出的問題不會不會只有一個應該是好幾個啦是部長這就是"},{"start":9765.979,"end":9787.546,"text":"我們現在要一直歸納嘛我們現在期待的是說當地方政府送給中央政府來審議的時候我們希望是一直歸納問題而不是第三次的時候說這個六四的維修的問題就第四次退回的時候又說土地的問題那每一次都東跳一個西跳一個那永遠沒有辦法那無怪乎地方會認為是說明明有那麼多行經"},{"start":9788.786,"end":9804.015,"text":"新莊、土城、板橋、泰山、中和這一些大家都期待的軌道建設結果卻因為一而再再而三被鐵道局這邊退回報告委員重點是在於該修正的單位要修正到完整"},{"start":9804.835,"end":9823.543,"text":"不會是鐵道局的問題鐵道局負責提問題所以我們才會再講是說 部長所以我們才會再講是說請讓我們一次的討論讓大家能夠來聚焦到底你的考題現在著重的點在哪邊嗎這個考題從第一次就已經提出來了他們到現在還沒答對部長來 部長"},{"start":9826.15,"end":9840.747,"text":"本席今天站在這邊是希望反映大家的心聲因為看到真的這不只是本席的選區這席包括韓瓜很多其實您之前在台中市政府當議員的時候也為台中的軌道來做努力"},{"start":9841.808,"end":9869.087,"text":"當時也希望是中央不分朝野不分藍綠大家共同的一起面對軌道建設所以我們才會希望在去年的時候我是不是在這裡有去年的時候要求說希望能夠鐵道局找相關部會能夠一次的做討論來把問題釐清讓新北市府能夠來做一個完整的一個說明對 這個都有來現在新北市府會最快的速度也說九月會再送件那針對這部分鐵道局長還有沒有什麼話說"},{"start":9870.463,"end":9893.539,"text":"謝謝委員 委員去年特別是有質詢也只是希望我親自來召開這個會議那當時我也開了那現在所講的這些問題其實在當時都跟新北市政府有做過溝通那我們極度的希望新北市政府的修正報告能夠把這個土地開發效益因為所有全國的計畫土地開發效益都是納為自償性經費而不是納為未來營運期間的一種收入"},{"start":9895.76,"end":9920.648,"text":"那因為這樣子的一個做法應該是新北市政府是首例啦那因為此例一開的話會影響到所有捷運計畫的一種所謂審議上面的公平性所以這題我們是真的希望新北市政府能夠這個按照我們的這樣的一個期望去做修正那我們會盡速來協助這個案子往下一個程序來進行好 兩方部分都要一起努力但最重要的是地方的需求要被重視"},{"start":9921.488,"end":9944.669,"text":"所以這也是為什麼如果說中央部會有很明確的講清楚那新北市府也要很明確的回答兩方來聚焦才不會讓地方一直有期待是說奇怪怎麼會一而再再而三被推薦那我們在中間扮演的就是一個溝通協調的角色就是希望讓兩方可以持續的把問題點給釐清清楚了才能夠往下走嘛是的"},{"start":9945.449,"end":9969.288,"text":"這個部分是不是請鐵道局長也再讓我們知道是說上一次開會的一個內容是好不好那我們這邊該要求新北市府再繼續送件我們一定會要求跟督促我們再跟委員報告這都是地方民眾大家共同的期待我們再跟委員報告好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝洪孟愷委員現在休息十分鐘媒體朋友可以自由應用"},{"start":9979.537,"end":9981.038,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":10599.881,"end":10621.213,"text":"好各位請坐因為我們今天登記的花園委員算蠻多的所以拜託除了本會委員那如果其他委員的話盡量遵守時間盡量遵守時間好現在請我們繼續開會請林俊炫委員執行"},{"start":10634.4,"end":10659.969,"text":"好 感謝主席本席邀請我們交通部陳部長好 交通部陳部長還有我們高鐵石董事長好 高鐵石董事長石董事長委員好部長好 董事長好跟大家討論一下我要特別提出我們高鐵台南站的問題"},{"start":10661.684,"end":10687.117,"text":"大家知道現在高鐵在台灣各站運量增加幅度最多的就是進出站的人數成長最多的台南不是排第一就是排第二以去年來講2024年高鐵進站出站人數的成長比例台南都第二"},{"start":10688.718,"end":10715.697,"text":"在前一年高鐵到站人數成長最多就是台南所以台南一年現在進出站人數大概有破千萬增加非常快速這當中主要因為台南這幾年產業發展非常快速現在除了有南科以外而且南科已經成長到產值遠遠超過竹科"},{"start":10717.315,"end":10742.994,"text":"那在接下來台南還會更發展這個現在國家在我們高鐵特區就我們台南站周邊的高鐵特區現在的科學園區也確定設立目前為止就有相當多的單位進駐在我們高鐵特區"},{"start":10745.476,"end":10763.443,"text":"甚至有很多的商業設施、公共設施、住宅區我們大台南會展中心、產業研發專區、資策會的資安和智慧科技的研發大樓綠能科技示範場域、中研院的南部院區"},{"start":10764.864,"end":10790.825,"text":"還有沙崙醫療服務創新園區台灣智慧駕駛實驗室 這我們交通部的單位啦還有台灣智慧綠能循環的住宅園區啦像澳內啦 甚至有陽明交大 都在這附近那未來啊 會更發展啦因為媒體的報導啊南科市集也是設在這個地方 也設在高鐵特區"},{"start":10793.023,"end":10806.411,"text":"預計台積電將會進駐那台積電光是它的廠區就至少用地需求500公頃那未來整個園區的從業人數將會從目前的1萬人漸減到10萬人所以高鐵附近周邊甚至在高鐵就在這個園區裡面"},{"start":10820.064,"end":10847.93,"text":"這會是全世界最重要的半導體高科技生產園區國家最重要的尖端各項科技的研發園區都在這個地方所以高鐵台南站會成為台南甚至世界的門戶因為我們的科技廠商會有很多的往來來自世界各地的這種商務互相的交流等等"},{"start":10849.522,"end":10872.44,"text":"所以啊我們也發現了高鐵站的台南站現在完全不服使用保證我特別要請我們董事長 施董事長要來了解這個問題你現在剛上任我希望你要注意到第一個啊你目前的高鐵的量體像"},{"start":10875.66,"end":10893.272,"text":"我來比較一下六都啦六都的高鐵站就台南最小台南小到台南跟嘉義高鐵站是1比1啦就一樣大小所以台南的高鐵站不是一個直轄式規格的一個設計"},{"start":10895.305,"end":10923.06,"text":"那用量我實在說已經幾乎快要爆掉了你看桃園桃園的進駐站人數是台南1.8倍桃園在機場裡他一年前八萬出入台南一千萬是台南1.8倍但他樓地板面積是台南的3.4倍桃園站 台南站底他的人出入台南的1.8倍但桃園站"},{"start":10924.158,"end":10928.643,"text":"臺中進出人數是臺南人2.5倍但臺中的戰體面積是臺南的4倍 4倍大你再來看左營"},{"start":10947.438,"end":10974.426,"text":"中央出入人數是台南的兩倍啦但他的左營暫停喔 也台南的2.5倍啦好 就算跟嘉義來比啦來啦 董事長啊嘉義一年六百幾百人出入啦 台南破一千萬台南進駐站人數喔 一年比嘉義多四百多萬但是台南的暫停跟嘉義一樣大欸 你一年多四百幾百人出入喔啊你自己的站到嘉義變大"},{"start":10976.507,"end":11001.034,"text":"給4票基本人會造成什麼狀況第一個 公共設施嚴重不足台南站 上下月台 只有一個守護梯 一上一下我們再來看公設設施 台灣有2座 台中4座如果整個守護梯給大家看 桃園12 台中10 台南只有6 左營有20"},{"start":11005.362,"end":11028.102,"text":"對不對 我們說扁手啦高鐵站啦 你要看到從廁所裡面排到外面像台南站你看得到啦那扁手完全不夠用喔我沒看到有扁手在裡面排的可能有啦 排到外面來這很難看啦連廁所使用都嚴重的不足啦"},{"start":11029.977,"end":11053.023,"text":"尤其未來 像我說的 如果你南哥市集台積電來 周邊廠商也來那個用地 光產業使用面積大概就將近一千公頃十萬個人 你的站體絕對會爆掉所以我希望高鐵要超前部署萬一像施董事長 你要注意到這個事情"},{"start":11054.011,"end":11073.023,"text":"那一樣我們的門戶世界最重要的高科技門戶就在台南使用一定是高鐵為優先那這樣沒有辦法你以前把附近蓋那麼小還可以體諒因為你涉戰當時台南可能還不是直轄市"},{"start":11074.642,"end":11101.867,"text":"所以那個地方 當地的地方叫蘇阿倫啦聽這個名字就知道大概比較偏遠的地方啦是不是那你知道高鐵站旁邊有一個很特殊的單位台南監獄你知道嗎隔地上的旁邊有一個台南監獄啊我看在座幾乎沒有人知道台南監獄車程如果開車到台南高鐵站喔差不多兩分鐘就到了旁邊有設一個高鐵站啦"},{"start":11104.585,"end":11112.31,"text":"那台南監獄設在那個地方叫什麼叫台地處啦你知道看那以前多偏僻以前高齡戰陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣陣"},{"start":11133.308,"end":11146.898,"text":"所以我認為台南站有必要要擴展你一定要把它擴充至少以目前的公設 廁所 上架手扶梯 電扶梯都嚴重的不足我們請兩位發表一下意見"},{"start":11150.53,"end":11176.042,"text":"好 報告委員目前委員所提到的這個基礎設施的不足先不要講面積啦基礎設施的不足這個部分可能我會請高鐵公司趕快做研究我想石董事長也都有掌握這個部分我們先來做研究那第二就是暫體的擴大的部分這個部分要跟台南市政府大家也來討論因為它當時的督設省的部分有沒有一些限制那該怎麼去解套我覺得現在是值得討論的時候了啦"},{"start":11177.443,"end":11199.732,"text":"像委員所說的人已經這麼多了我們現在有發現幾個站包含新竹站也大概有類似的問題當時的規劃跟現在實際的用量其實有些落差那當時國家在設定高鐵的時候也不知道人數會這麼多也跟委員報告未來台南只會更多人只會更多所以我們要提早來因應那這個部分石董事長應該也都有掌握是不是請石董事長來說明一下"},{"start":11201.092,"end":11227.635,"text":"謝謝委員我想這個今天沙崙能夠發展成這樣子的一個值日可待而且大家羨慕的未來事實上跟高鐵扮演一個人才流通力很重要的因素但是它的發展超乎我們的預期所以委員在提示之後我們也來逐步來檢討我想可能要分短中長來處理短期的部分可能就是委員特別提到比如像廁所啦暫停的基本服務我覺得應該要跟上這個我們來想辦法"},{"start":11228.075,"end":11248.914,"text":"那中層的部分可能我們要來跟台南都市計畫的部分要來合作增加樓立板面積這才有可能增加它的整個服務的機能那長遠的話當然就是委員剛講到達成一個10萬人的就業人口的時候那可能就是一個另外整個新的所以我們希望能夠超前部署現在就應該要開始規劃未來好不好是 謝謝好 那謝謝部長也謝謝董事長謝謝委員"},{"start":11252.998,"end":11259.059,"text":"好 謝謝林俊炫委員的執行現在請蔡其昌副院長執行謝謝主席請陳部長跟鄭董事長好 來 陳部長台鐵鄭董事長"},{"start":11282.847,"end":11300.598,"text":"委員好 部長早 鄭董事長早安鄭董事長是新上任 跟石澤董事長是一起上任董事長鄭董事長我覺得好像部長比較器重你這個台鐵"},{"start":11302.937,"end":11323.139,"text":"問題比較多所以看起來部長應該是更器重你比史哲董事長所以才會任命你擔任那個比較艱困工作的董事長你有沒有這樣的感覺台鐵的系統確實相對高鐵是比較複雜一點對很複雜部長那個部長知道很複雜董事長你有沒有做好準備"},{"start":11325.049,"end":11335.758,"text":"你有沒有想說把高鐵很多比較好的制度或者是好的管理能夠把它帶到台鐵去"},{"start":11336.232,"end":11355.219,"text":"是的 我也朝這個方向那我舉一些例子台鐵的問題很多啦如果你有在關注立法院對台鐵的監督你就可以知道這個委員的意見是相當的多啦我舉幾個例子第一個我們來看一下你們那個台鐵的那個閘門"},{"start":11359.666,"end":11384.592,"text":"這個閘門這個是我個人認為是要有相當智慧的旅客才有辦法使用的閘門這個閘門舊式的最早的那個票投進去往前走會跳出來那個那個叫備詞就背後有詞詞帖那個備詞車票那個口還在那董事長你知道這個票台帖現在還賣不賣"},{"start":11387.049,"end":11413.766,"text":"現在我們已經都改成QR Code了對 這個已經沒有這種票了 是的但那個還在啦但沒關係他就留著反正他可能是一個紀念吧或者是你們有什麼歷史情懷我們意見啦那第二個我們有QR Code的掃描位置是第三個我們有悠遊卡一卡通包括我們交通部T Pass感應的位置那個董事長知道啦我知道 好"},{"start":11414.571,"end":11434.608,"text":"那這三者之間啊這個對旅客來講很複雜譬如說像我們長期坐高鐵的人而言我們就會到現場的時候要感應的時候會兩個位置常常不一定會感應對嘛因為此卡的位置跟QR Code的位置是不同的董事長這些"},{"start":11437.711,"end":11457.027,"text":"我知道你們好像有發新的這個計畫要不要先說明一下讓所有大家知道說像這種門面要開始搭乘台鐵的這個列車的時候這個入口的門面的這個感覺我們什麼時候這個計畫大概要怎麼做"},{"start":11459.011,"end":11483.355,"text":"所以這樣的一個QR Code的宣傳確實我們要強化那也會用圖案告訴我們的旅客但是最重要的我們可能要告訴我們所有的站務人員那麼怎麼樣來在最短的時間解釋給我們的旅客來做對 短期還沒有改之前可以請站務同仁解釋但是"},{"start":11484.605,"end":11498.57,"text":"你們應該在更換整個系統上面我看到好像我們有決定要分批來更換要 117年以前整個換裝完畢明年開始換嗎 還是今年開始換"},{"start":11500.811,"end":11523.505,"text":"今年年底就開始了 開始更換 足批更換 換到117年全部都是新的統一的系統這門門很要緊 那個體驗的感覺不好就對台鐵的評價就會低嘛 董事長這日的高鐵 高鐵的滿意度會高是因為旅客普遍搭乘的體驗感覺是好的"},{"start":11524.425,"end":11552.362,"text":"這個其實是很重要的那也因為這個感應的問題台鐵的你要輔導的時候啊這個員工都還曾經跟旅客因為不知道在哪裡感應吵吵架的也有啦這個我等一下再跟你談那譬如說我再舉例像那個台中跟豐原站這兩個火車站都是大站那個電子看板啊從116年開始掛上去壞了之後到今天大概這樣幾年七八年了吧"},{"start":11553.408,"end":11578.63,"text":"2016不好意思2016年開始那也大概時間很長了那台中站就直接用看板把那個電子看板用一般的看板把電子看板蓋住董事長這個為什麼我們不使用它是說它是有什麼問題不好用還是因為我們沒有錢維修還是什麼問題"},{"start":11581.26,"end":11609.215,"text":"跟委員報告 這個我們還是要發包來維修那現在目前我們在爭取這個經費之中董事長 我的意思是說2016年到現在你如果說在去年或是前幾月派去說你在爭取預算我不能夠理解是2016年沒有使用到今天掛在那裡已經掛了那麼久了這什麼原因"},{"start":11609.997,"end":11610.278,"text":"我請我們總經理來"},{"start":11613.666,"end":11640.405,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在目前處置就是現在已經夠半千盒已經在簽了就是要找到錢現在我們馬上就會來發包來進行改善那過去的原因主要是因為這個台中鐵路高架化是105年鐵道局蓋完以後點交給我們那點交完了以後這個部分確實有故障情形所以我們還要跟鐵道局因為原來還在他保固期間內"},{"start":11641.446,"end":11653.111,"text":"但是那個廠商在後續的維修上面一直沒有積極的處理所以我們現在目前自己來辦理這看起來好像你們的事情來 楊局長就是說這太離譜了吧2016年到今天現在在這裡說要爭取預算"},{"start":11662.267,"end":11689.578,"text":"包委員這個我們回去檢討一下好不好坦白說因為我們計畫已經結束了是不是還有這個問題我知道還有這個問題我們再跟台鐵公司一起來共同解決好啦這個這樣子啦2016年到現在為什麼他會放在那裡這個我很難理解啦你如果說沒有預算那隔年應該有因為他就是門面嘛我們要買票要買票的窗口的上面"},{"start":11690.694,"end":11714.495,"text":"的那個電子看板不能使用就一直擺在那裡不能使用那如果它是壞的那我們是不是如果說它是這個系統不對我們不能用是不是應該就把它拆了嘛因為你可以做其他的廣告也可以啊廣告賣錢什麼都好啊總不能擺一個壞的東西從2016年壞了擺到今天為止它還擺在那裡"},{"start":11715.556,"end":11734.883,"text":"部長這個我覺得應該要檢討報告委員我剛剛也請鐵道局一定要檢討因為當時這樣聽起來是兩個界面的問題鐵道局做好之後交給台鐵那鐵道局當時的廠商做得不好但後續的追溯鐵道局有沒有做我請楊局長去查清楚這個一定要查清楚再來現在已經全部都是台鐵負責"},{"start":11735.743,"end":11756.827,"text":"那台鐵對於這麼重要的一個資訊提供的地方那個地方因為大家購票所以上面不會不重要一定是重要的這個要趕快去把它做好現在我們快速把它維修也好或者換新的也好趕快把它做好就檢討的部分我就授權因為今天我在這裡問我也問不出你來啦你事後把一個檢討報告給我喂這很離譜這對我來說實在是很難我請鐵道局馬上提供這個檢討"},{"start":11765.302,"end":11789.702,"text":"那個鄭董事長 你站在經營高鐵那麼多年的角度這個在你們高鐵 這個是 你說實在話你不會覺得荒謬跟離譜不應該嘛 對不對資訊系統永遠是一個非常重要跟理工溝通的時間那不是在八角 如果這是八角的資訊系統那就是說因為看的人少 大家有主要的看板可以看阿他的位置齁 你看"},{"start":11790.942,"end":11819.22,"text":"他的位置就是在那個最門面的地方你說這樣台鐵要怎麼滿意都要怎麼管這台鐵要怎麼大家覺得這是可信任的所以我說你很要緊啦我看部長比較介意你所以才會叫你去做這個工作我說的都不是很複雜的啦我們要檢討高鐵都是很細微很細緻的問題因為他大致的方向大家都滿意所以大家能問高鐵的事情"},{"start":11820.08,"end":11846.913,"text":"其實都是比較不是這個可能是長遠的發展啊不是結構性的問題但你今天要接手的是結構性的問題各位很報告現在這個案子已經準備在發包要決標那年底前會決標那我們一定在明年年中應該是在看看能不能在年中前能夠把這個案子能夠把它做好好啦我今天來其實不是在指責我只是點出"},{"start":11847.893,"end":11870.059,"text":"我是隨便抓的啦 如果要把過去的事情 到今天還沒有做好的台鐵怎麼在運量上面 台鐵的歷史厚度這個有百年歷史的台鐵 他不只可以賣運輸 他可以賣文化他可以賣的東西很多 所以台鐵的營收還要講便當 那又要講很久啦 所以"},{"start":11870.999,"end":11897.199,"text":"這些東西需要一個有能力的董事長來好好的把它整我今天來只是提醒說台鐵你要做的工作很多你任重道遠你要做的工作很多那另外台鐵的士氣員工啊你也要想辦法建立起一套這個員工的這個制度你看現在員工很辛苦嘛我剛剛講入票口因為旅客不知怎麼使用"},{"start":11897.939,"end":11924.76,"text":"所以就跟戰務人員產生衝突雙方不開心 剩戰務員還辱罵那表示戰務同仁可能壓力真的很大那另外你看多少我們台鐵的員工要常常還要練身體因為人家拿刀的啦 要扭打的啦查票過程裡面口角衝突 甚至全副武裝的這個在台鐵我們幾乎很少看到這樣的新聞"},{"start":11926.417,"end":11946.881,"text":"高鐵我們幾乎很少看到台鐵最多一天還有兩三則兩三個案例這個比例實在太驚人了所以員工的士氣一定有問題那怎麼去保護員工怎麼去讓員工在心理輔導上面怎麼去協助讓這個在繁忙的工作底下可以怎麼樣去做"},{"start":11947.361,"end":11966.145,"text":"因為只有快樂的員工他才能夠善待所有的旅客這些都環環相扣啦所以不是只有硬體喔軟體硬體跟軟體台鐵都是百廢待興啦是謝謝委員指導這個友善職場我們要再努力好不好所以我今天來是要讓你了解說這個任務不簡單啦"},{"start":11970.346,"end":11997.166,"text":"背負的責任很重大因為你在國體一定有很好的成績保證才會看到你的長才讓你來這裡因為在我的心目當中史哲董事長是非常有能力非常優秀的人那他竟然只能當到高鐵董事長當不了台鐵董事長所以我才會覺得部長一定覺得你的能力比史哲董事長更好所以呢我對你有很高的期許啦"},{"start":11999.064,"end":12006.813,"text":"謝謝委員指教好 我會盡力做謝謝蔡其昌副院長現在請王逸川委員執行"},{"start":12019.039,"end":12045.41,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請台鐵董事長跟高鐵董事長好來鄭董事長石董事長好我先請問一下這個鄭董事長上次我在質詢的時候啊有提到說我們到了高鐵的站區啊再走到台鐵站區就知道我到台鐵了兩筆差很多嘛你現在"},{"start":12046.269,"end":12065.745,"text":"跟一個時間是台鐵,你也有發言說,欸?這是台鐵,怎麼怕我以前的高鐵沒工,你有這個感受嗎?當然是有啦,那我們盡量來把台鐵的部分,盡量來改善我最近到左營,新左營的那個台鐵站"},{"start":12066.701,"end":12085.385,"text":"我發現有改善 電費變更高不然本來都黑黑臭臭我跟你們講 可是現在台北站喔台北站走過高鐵再往台鐵 你就知道你到台鐵了台鐵站現在還有一些問題我們每次月台的單車 那個整個標示牌 那個大國藥的董事長你應該有發現 這是高鐵不可能出現"},{"start":12092.918,"end":12105.615,"text":"我們在打國藥啦 褲褲都在打 上面都在打 拔條都在打啦走一個禁煙標誌就對了 四五行啦啊每天要宣導就打 要打就打 打一大堆"},{"start":12107.429,"end":12130.349,"text":"大家想像台鐵搞不清楚現在這台車一邊兩個門的還是一邊三個門的會不會停這裡會不會停那裡對一些人來說是很大的考驗所以這一個車站的標示系統我希望台鐵你就是高鐵的董事長我知道你這一段期間去應該這邊也看不慣那邊也看不慣"},{"start":12132.17,"end":12159.941,"text":"我講的是設施啦 看不慣啦當然台鐵有經費 把它編然後把它改善成像高鐵的樣子啦這個是謝謝委員指導 我們會朝這方向來努力對啦 因為我知道你們錢也有含啦我們還要加薪水 這些硬體的設施要趕上高鐵還是有一段距離啦 大家一起加油好 接下來對 我再請問一下 兩位你們兩本報告互相有沒有看過"},{"start":12162.287,"end":12173.281,"text":"兩本 我事前沒有好 你要互相漏氣求進步互相看互相學習 互相看互相學習好 接下來請高鐵董事長"},{"start":12175.114,"end":12193.223,"text":"董事長你上任啦 大家對你有很多的這個指教啦 或是批評啦 都有人那你今天來的報告 我看到一個重點你花了蠻多的篇幅啊 在談安全 談技術 談這一個環境 這就對了"},{"start":12196.704,"end":12213.187,"text":"因為原本的媒體的報導啊 說要叫你來做行銷啦高鐵現在不用什麼行銷啦 每天的K-1是要行銷什麼的你沒有行銷就都K-1了啦啊你跟行銷也K-1 所以這個行銷這個階段看起來不是重點 重點就是"},{"start":12213.707,"end":12240.73,"text":"我這報告看得出來 你把很專業的安全技術這些課題啊 通通尊重專業由這個專業者啦 來處理但是你上任以後啊 跟你溝通幾件事情我們隔壁的車啊 開出去啊 位子沒人坐就是沒人坐啦沒人坐 那位子就是了解啦那所以呢 我們現在的這個搞運輸系統啊 最好的"},{"start":12241.471,"end":12253.296,"text":"班班客滿 都沒人騎 也沒人騎一輪月台 工需都要最好所以有一些專車 有人包整個車廂的 有團體旅遊的都有這包的時候 你應該建議他做兩門車次"},{"start":12260.66,"end":12280.773,"text":"他也要叫人家開熱門的啦那你冷門車是這個時候行銷就出現他如果做冷門車是你的票價就給他降下去因為你車開出去沒人坐就沒人坐那位就尿了嘛那你如果說你本來要買7點的我跟你說你不要買7點的你改買銀行8點的或是6點的 提早5點的你做那個班次啦我讓你票價降低所以高鐵應該在研究要有彈性的票價你們現在的票價"},{"start":12290.82,"end":12302.153,"text":"太僵化,太僵化你就動不了第二個,我們每到假日北上,假日北上,經常都客門,剛才很多委員講你們應該多開全車自由座全車自由座,除了第六車廂以外,一台車載出去就八個到八個了"},{"start":12310.68,"end":12318.125,"text":"那個一次譬如說台中站一次就紓解光了我知道高鐵的營運的部門運務部門都有留備用的車輛那時候台電有那個備援電力一樣都不敢開啦真的動不動的時候台中車就要滾出來"},{"start":12329.199,"end":12336.129,"text":"一塊給台中站 一塊給街館 要不然那台中站有時候要擺下去那整個鋼鐵站路人員都要拉紅龍 都要衝那個動線這個才是要做的啦 要不然會僵化因為高鐵現在經過十八年 要二十年了十八年來喔 做到最後 可是會僵化"},{"start":12347.116,"end":12375.808,"text":"你如果問這運務部門人家說啊沒辦法嘿這個董事長這個沒辦法那也沒辦法車放在那裡也沒辦法這個就是要有彈性去把它調才能夠解決我們假日啊的這一個問題所以我現在要求啊可不可以給我提供給我今年一到五月你們高鐵所有列車所有列車每天出勤的列車班數讓我們知道說你到底唱多少車啦好最後"},{"start":12376.653,"end":12384.059,"text":"主席給我幾分鐘最後請你要務必要求我們的台鐵的駕駛高鐵的駕駛跟高鐵的站入員高鐵的列車長一定要落實紙擦確認現在紙擦確認委現在越走越親在"},{"start":12395.203,"end":12411.837,"text":"都沒有說指叉確認要做我們的駕駛的指叉確認也要做這才能夠這一個落實有一陣子在鄭董事長領導之下這種經歷這事情都做得很好我們的指叉確認動作都做很大有時候那些列車搞的時候都會戴幣買花車車現在都有一點鬆懈最後一個"},{"start":12416.081,"end":12439.818,"text":"我們高鐵會有國際的客人你如果知道說這班車有日本人包幾個團的比如包一個車廂都是日本團的現在日本人都學習啊這個他畢業旅行啊來到台灣做你知道說這台車有一本人我建議你們就應該派高鐵的車上的服務人員啊就要會講日文日本的國旗就拍上去"},{"start":12442.199,"end":12451.186,"text":"對日本人來說這個會講日文然後有掛日本國旗他會很開心啊然後知道這裡這個列車上面有整團日本人整團韓國人高鐵的廣播"},{"start":12454.335,"end":12472.628,"text":"快到站的廣播 你就用日文廣播啊叫你的車長或者是服務人員會講日文的直接上車用日文跟他講說到台北站了 到高雄站了喔 那聽起來絕對很感動的 對不對當然你如果去到韓國 去到日本買到車的時候有人用台語教你說那廣播用台語的 你說你會刷一下覺得很受尊重 這個是新聞很假的這個可以試看看有沒有機會在這個地方做改進好 以上 謝謝"},{"start":12483.936,"end":12511.599,"text":"好 副委員感謝你這麼專業 還有一些事情要請教 給我們加一些撇步 謝謝謝謝王逸川委員 現在請陳雪生委員執行哎呀 我以為王逸川委員只會鬥爭啊他腦袋還不錯嘛那個像有一些高鐵啊沒有人做的時段有沒有 把便宜的票賣出去 這是對的"},{"start":12512.677,"end":12537.935,"text":"我看他腦袋還不錯請部長好,陳部長來陳部長陳部長不是史部長啦委員好部長好久不見齁我看你這個笑容可掬啊好像事業滿順利的齁是看到你就會很開心不會不會不會"},{"start":12539.668,"end":12556.081,"text":"我要請問一下這次高鐵跟台鐵的人事案當然我們尊重行政院這個人事主導權是你們的嘛你該派誰我們沒有意見當然成敗你要負責這個過程怎麼樣願聽其詳願聞其詳過程啊這個人事怎麼主導勒"},{"start":12564.504,"end":12592.245,"text":"這個是由交通部提出,那由院長核定喔,那就你提出的喔?是,交通部提出的沒錯因為這個高鐵有沒有,這個鄭榮我對他很有興趣啊他從利隆航空的時候就跟我們馬嘴有接觸後來到這個長榮,他真的標準的吸油欸跑到高鐵,高鐵他快倒了嘛對不對然後現在又把他振興起來了,高鐵"},{"start":12593.493,"end":12619.717,"text":"把他做得很好他高鐵甚至要學台鐵做台鐵的便當他已經都有計畫我聽他講了突然生董事長沒幹幾個月又變成台鐵台鐵是一個很危險的職務我之前那個杜威當局長的時候我問他杜局長你要幹多久啊他幹到退休我說你幹到退休"},{"start":12620.418,"end":12637.706,"text":"台鐵局長一年犯三次,抓的抓、關的關、彈劾的彈劾這很辛苦的欸是不是?杜董事長做得很好,真的做到退休他退休的時候我也很詫異,我一直希望他能夠繼續那當然你現在又把鄭榮弄過來,我也跟鄭榮勉勵了"},{"start":12641.089,"end":12668.424,"text":"高鐵那邊的年薪跟台鐵的年薪差很多台鐵的薪水已經都有爭議了所以當然政總上來是滿辛苦的因為台鐵這裡面有段還有站站跟段成科已久你把底下弄得差不多你自己也走人了你部裡面如果底下每個局都出狀況你部長也幹不下去了"},{"start":12670.185,"end":12681.108,"text":"那我現在講台鐵要漲價,大概二十幾、二十六點幾是不是?他今年的財報虧損137.9億那可能鄭董,您上來我想聽聽你的講法你怎麼樣把137.9億虧損彌平,然後勒?"},{"start":12696.314,"end":12720.416,"text":"再恢復到高鐵的雄風你有沒有這樣的雄心壯志我有這樣的想法但是這個要慢慢來我想最重要現在要讓台鐵的服務能夠符合旅客的需求能夠讓旅客對台鐵有信心譬如說要安全要準點這部分恐怕要先做到"},{"start":12720.953,"end":12744.602,"text":"那做完這個以後那也同時因為要做到這個一定要讓我們的員工有願意他來這個付出那所以這個友善職場對員工的這個福利一些他的應該給他合理的一個待遇這個也要趕快做那希望做完了以後我們再來看看我們的財務情況是怎麼樣我想我們都會支持那你現在推出一個TPASTPAS這個一年要虧3.8億"},{"start":12748.226,"end":12762.477,"text":"當然地方跟中央聯合來出我也問了比如台北市、台中跟我們馬祖沒什麼關係我們地方不會出這個錢我們出這個錢也是找陳部長算帳我們不會出這個錢所以你這裡面還要3.8億當然這個政策是對的啦外面學者專家評估這個政策是對的這個對我們通行人員來講是好的那"},{"start":12778.274,"end":12798.808,"text":"您可能會更加辛苦啦好不好還有我最關注的是台鐵便當希望你把台鐵便當繼續發揚光大好不好好我們會在這個優勢之下我們努力強化我們的優勢那我們做得不好我們趕快要把它做得更好好那部長台鐵董事長剛剛才上任你不會把它再換掉吧"},{"start":12799.608,"end":12824.479,"text":"不會啊不會啊會不會再調整去哪裡啊?高工局馬上退休了,你會不會再弄到那邊去啊?不會啊,台鐵有很多工作要做,所以剛剛委員已經提示很多工作了那鄭董事長一定會努力把台鐵的體質改變我們根本都不知道啊,都是聽報章雜誌那個,那鄭董你請回好不好?我想請我們新任石董事長好,高鐵石董事長"},{"start":12828.248,"end":12854.892,"text":"石董事長我在立法院很少跟他見面,也沒見過不過初次見面印象蠻好的,談笑風生而且看起來蠻歷練的,跟我們部長多學習當然你是以前文化部部長現在不管怎麼樣,你的長官是陳部長現在你心裡面可以嗎?可以接受嗎?完全接受你不能接受可以講啊?完全接受完全接受?"},{"start":12856.084,"end":12877.957,"text":"好那你說說看你將來有什麼雄心抱負把高鐵怎麼樣繼續繼續發揚光大就誠如剛才王玉川委員也講了一些啊我以為王玉川只會搞鬥爭啊他腦袋還不錯你可以接受他的講法嗎他講的講法是我們現在也目前正在進行的事情因為你有一些高鐵"},{"start":12879.482,"end":12906.534,"text":"都沒有人嘛 對不對你可以把票價降低啊 去招攬客人你不要現在班班客滿的情況之下 你可以公告一些離風時間的時段我們高鐵的特質就是一般車開出來不管是坐多少人 它的固定成本都是一樣我想石董董你剛剛上任我也不為難你這個裡面改組啊我也尊重交通部行列人的人事權"},{"start":12907.794,"end":12929.062,"text":"當然還要看你的表現,表現不好的話,我們在執行團還要見面嘛好不好,加油,請你請回台鐵剛才那個誰?鄭董?很重要的問題,工會團體提出三大訴求,大概都是公安的問題"},{"start":12930.475,"end":12959.598,"text":"警力的加強,你這邊交通部要跟內政部去協調一下因為高鐵常常發生一些意外,公安意外所以鐵路警察的部分我們會特別拜託對這些員工,人心惶惶他們會怕對我們旅客來講的安全,這個很重要鄭董你再回去注意一下好不好你跟工會溝通一下,他們的三大訴求我想這個應該可以辦得到,就警力再加強一下是的,我們會跟鐵警局再進一步溝通"},{"start":12959.958,"end":12975.288,"text":"好那鄭榮你請回部長最後一個問題就請教你今天公路局局長沒有來我明天會找他來開個會你聽到就好了我們中正國中有個停車場停車場大概我不曉得誰規劃156個位置"},{"start":12981.102,"end":13000.512,"text":"這個停車場是大家使用,不是國中,因為沒有土地的嘛所以利用中正國中運動場下面,把它土方挖開然後做停車場,上面再蓋教室教室的錢教育不出,底下的錢給我們公路局來出啦那現在公路局說,你要蓋156個位置"},{"start":13002.912,"end":13009.095,"text":"那我們覺得沒辦法我們只能蓋75個車位75個車位單價大概248萬一個他說你這個248萬建造費用超過一般的100多萬的車子變成這個停車場比車位還貴不符國內標準馬祖地區"},{"start":13025.063,"end":13052.944,"text":"我們缺工缺料欸我們很多地方標不出去我們一個中山國中標了28次28次喔標出去以後還碰到問題地質賺貸的問題所以可見還有一些石頭砂石有些離島的地區根本東西都進不去啊那廠商你即使給我賺500萬賺1000萬沒有用我不想賺那個錢啊因為什麼?疫情罰款會罰死他你知道嗎所以呢"},{"start":13054.11,"end":13078.898,"text":"在公路總局這案子一直沒辦法過去一直在審查再審查那你狀況不一樣你不能跟台灣來比那你造價不只比台灣高三分之一還有缺工缺料的問題我們另外一個停車場福澳停車場兩個比較單價一個車位的單價是兩百四十七萬這個是兩百四十八萬只多一萬塊"},{"start":13080.592,"end":13106.133,"text":"所以我想部長你回去交代一下工程局,我們現場明天要親自來,因為這個問題不能再拖了而且工程已經八次發包了,如果實在再不行,請我們交通部你們來主導來主政在符合規範的範圍之內我們盡量來協助,這個部分我來跟他們溝通你不能一直在符合台灣的規範,你符合台灣的規範怎麼弄?"},{"start":13107.403,"end":13128.96,"text":"你台灣一個單價比如說車子一部150萬,它的停車位造價只能在150萬以內,那我們那裡就在200多萬嘛所以沒有200多萬坐不起來嘛,現在我們就75個車位那好,你如果要求要我們156個車位的話,那你再給我補助我一半的錢啊"},{"start":13132.509,"end":13157.668,"text":"明天召開的會議先討論,後續有需要我來協助,我再來協助溝通現場很緊張,他親自跑來拜託我拜託我,我就找公眾總局他們來他們裡面有個委員會委員會你做官的在辦公室,你怎麼知道我們那邊的事情我都火大了,反正想說再考察一次因為馬祖考察過了再去為這個事情再考察一次部長有需要嗎?"},{"start":13159.193,"end":13169.921,"text":"其實您這樣說我就理解,不一定要到現場,因為停車場我去看了兩個馬祖的停車道我們看過兩個,就這個沒看,蓋了你一看你應該了解了嗎,好不好不打擾你好不好,謝謝趙偉謝謝好謝謝陳寫生委員的執行,現在請邱若驊委員執行"},{"start":13189.53,"end":13192.967,"text":"好 謝謝主席 主席有請交通部陳部長好 交通部陳部長"},{"start":13200.612,"end":13226.696,"text":"委員好 部長好 您上任交通部長資金即將要滿一年了嘛那本席想先請教您幾個簡單的問題喔部長您任內大概來過幾次巴德還有大溪 桃園巴德 大溪巴德啊 對巴德大概一兩次 大溪應該沒有去過那本席記得去年十月就是台66銜接國道3號通車時您有來到嘛那您有沒有走過大溪的接受路 這一條路呢"},{"start":13227.618,"end":13238.592,"text":"沒印象那本席今天要針對這條路大溪接受路的路面品質問題就交部長部長我們先來看通影片那台灣馬路有一個現象到處都有部長您知道是哪一個現象嗎可能是不平吧"},{"start":13241.69,"end":13264.635,"text":"不平 那我們接下來看喔補丁的部分比較多喔 沒錯部長就是您說到的補丁的部分那我們來看大溪接受路它這條路全長大約3.1公里是連接巴德與大溪的重要通勤幹道之一這條路它交通繁忙然後更是銜接巴德接受路二段它承載著每天都承載著大量的通勤車流量部長您知道這條路的養護單位是哪一個機關嗎"},{"start":13267.008,"end":13288.462,"text":"欸 這個應該不是省道這個應該不是省道是省道嗎 這個我不曉得他是在公路局那部長您知道他為什麼在他是省道 如果是省道就是公路局沒有錯對 他是由公路局所負責喔那因為這條接收路它屬於台四線的路段喔那可是這個區域它又不在都市計畫內所以依法是由公路局來負責養護那部長我們來看到簡報"},{"start":13290.075,"end":13317.73,"text":"現在目前接受他的路況他的現況是東補一塊西補一塊那到處都是高低落差啊街坊也是不平整的他完全不符合公路局該有的道路品質那我們也看到這樣的路況他會影響到人路人的行車安全也會也影響我們地方就是巴德與大溪地區民眾的交通品質啊部長這種補丁路面補丁對汽車對於汽車駕駛人或許他我們還可以忍受可是對於騎摩托車的民眾來說"},{"start":13319.131,"end":13336.507,"text":"或是自行車的族群來說這種高低落差非常的危險嘛那部長你應該有騎過摩托車嘛我每個禮拜都會騎摩托車對 那對於騎士而言那整個路面的平整啊不平的時候就真的很像在騎off-road就是非常的危險"},{"start":13338.108,"end":13366.68,"text":"這種坑洞還有不平整的他的接縫嘛也可能會造成騎士摔車那部長您知道這條街事路上次修的時候是大概是什麼時候嗎我不曉得不曉得他已經10年前了我們來看這段投影片那這條那這個是公路局的官方公開資料它屬於台四線23.8K到26.9K那最近一次大規模的修繕工程是民國105年也就是整整10年前那10年都沒有重新鋪過那麼重要的"},{"start":13367,"end":13381.8,"text":"一條道路喔 這樣的補丁部長您認為這樣的品質您能接受嗎報告委員 這個兩個部分來處理啦一個就是說對於挖補的那個規範或許我們的省道必須要做一定的規範我知道每個都市對於挖"},{"start":13382.921,"end":13403.273,"text":"管縣的規範不一樣或許桃園的規範會不會比較寬鬆這我不曉得至少在我們台中的規範會比較嚴格這第一個要處理的第二個就是說委員您剛剛所提到的那個補丁的部分太多我們會馬上請公路局在那一段負責的分局趕快去處理所以把整段做好不應該讓它補丁這麼多"},{"start":13405.214,"end":13434.834,"text":"是 那部長您剛也有提到台中的部分那我們看除了台四線之外2023年台三線的台中三線段還有2024年台十七線的高雄彌陀段那包括2025年台二十八線的大樹段同樣都是省道路面也同樣都有凹凸還有補丁的情況那我們來看一下一張投影片OK好 沒關係也難怪我們剛才看到投影片有日本的網友揶揄我們說我們台灣不會鋪馬路部長 那就省道的部分交通部要如何來提升路面的品質呢"},{"start":13436.195,"end":13455.811,"text":"報告委員當然該補的部分我們要把它做好這是一方面二方面對於管線的這個挖這個部分的管理或許可以再更嚴格一點或者是說大家比較統一時間啦不要說這裡有個建案就讓他挖這裡有個什麼就讓他挖其實有時候民意代表來拜託的時候我們地方的分局也很難拒絕"},{"start":13457.072,"end":13483.485,"text":"但是這個大家都不一樣時間這裡挖那裡挖對於整個公路系統來說很難啦很難說維持整段都很完整如果不挖不會有問題大部分的問題是出在挖那您剛才有提到就很重要的問題就是時間嘛那公路局能不能夠就是全面的盤點全國省道的使用頻率那包括周邊人口的密度然後還有作為未來養護優先順序然後重新鋪設的週期來作為依據呢"},{"start":13486.718,"end":13511.915,"text":"好委員這個建議很好我相信他們有一定的這個週期跟一定的維養的標準啦那我請他們再看仔細一點有沒有哪些路段我們去盤點一下現在狀況不好的我們趕快把它解決好謝謝部長那也希望就是有關有關的可以儘快提供數據那我們希望在有限的預算下能夠發揮最大的效益那主席請我們台鐵的鄭董事長好來台鐵鄭董事長"},{"start":13522.54,"end":13540.073,"text":"委員好董事長好董事長對於您願意自動降薪來到台鐵然後帶頭改革的決心那本席給予高度的肯定也希望在董事長的帶領之下可以將過去的陋習一一根除那讓台鐵營運更好也更安全更有效率那肯定之餘本席還是要針對幾個問題那我們先來看到投票慣犯"},{"start":13543.996,"end":13554.438,"text":"以及前線人員的安全本身要提出建議以及問題那我們看到根據台鐵的統計2020年補票234萬張他金額高達1億零55萬那疫情期間有降下來是2021年的投票的張數是163萬張金額是7069萬那疫情過後呢他運量回溫他2024年投票的張數是203萬張那金額高達1億"},{"start":13577.759,"end":13591.389,"text":"1830萬1830萬 董事長那對於台鐵要如何有效改善投票的問題 董事長能否再回去和台鐵 就是進行研議還有正式目前我們這個台鐵面臨到的問題 因為這些都只是抓到的 還沒有抓到的黑數相信有更多"},{"start":13592.35,"end":13612.825,"text":"是的我們會持續的來關切這個問題不過目前我們會加強列車上的這個隨機差票這樣一個機制那同時也會把這個補票的這個機制讓他很務實的很落實的來跟旅客來溝通那對於這個電子票證我們現在有電子票證的這個進出比對我們會加強"},{"start":13616.147,"end":13622.002,"text":"那用這樣的話多管的來防堵這個所謂的逃票的問題"},{"start":13622.799,"end":13651.778,"text":"OK好 謝謝董事長那剛剛也有很多委員提到就是安全的問題那台鐵認為說車上配備辣椒水還有防身棍並不實用要啟動護車專案提高鐵路警察的見警率還有也嚴密要規劃基礎的防身課程讓員工學習自保那董事長他由於本身在務人他沒有被賦予強制力沒有辦法驅離鬧事的乘客那想請問董事長那台鐵是否可以以後來研議派一到兩位的鐵警來做進駐呢"},{"start":13653.919,"end":13669.464,"text":"這部分的話是這樣我們在車上的話因為我們有這個列車長那也有隨車的這個鐵警在這部分我們但是您提到的在戰務裡面的話我們這一部分我們基本上我們會讓我們的戰務員"},{"start":13674.105,"end":13695.974,"text":"它有一個保護 就是說如果面對一些攻擊或者任何不必要的話那我們會馬上來通知鐵警來跟我們支援地方的警察也可以來隨時來支援我們那當然對一些比較暴力的旅客的話我們也會尊重我們的組員如果說受到這樣的傷害"},{"start":13697.634,"end":13720.679,"text":"我們有法律的諮詢的專家可以來support我們的同仁來提告OK 好 謝謝董事長您的詳細說明那也期待接下來台鐵您在以下的改革那謝謝部長好 謝謝部長 指導謝謝委員好 謝謝邱若驊委員的執行現在請林業勤委員執行"},{"start":13736.816,"end":13745.966,"text":"主席麻煩我們的交通部部長交通部陳部長委員好"},{"start":13747.043,"end":13763.157,"text":"今天是6月25號一個月前我跟民間團體共同召開了記者會針對國內的自行車政策提出了一些建議另外更早之前我也在這裡諮詢慢車的管理問題包含我們的"},{"start":13764.278,"end":13780.177,"text":"電動滑板車在內的個人行動器具規範的執行跟推動情形但我不曉得江部現在針對於內部針對此事的處理進度是什麼為什麼因為我現在不僅拿不到任何具體的說明報告即便我請助理跟"},{"start":13781.719,"end":13781.819,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":13798.226,"end":13826.773,"text":"我們是不是請供運司好不好慢車的規劃在供運司他們那邊都有在做討論但是確實這個影響到的人蠻多那我們的道路的路幅大概就是這個樣子那影響各種運距不一樣的狀況那所以我們的討論時間確實會比較長一點因為要聽取各方面的意見大家意見其實應該也都還沒收攏那供運司是不是可以回答一下目前進度什麼時候可以給我們有些具體的回覆說明"},{"start":13828.899,"end":13831.122,"text":"屬於慢車的部分大概是他的整個運行使用的規劃大概是屬於地方政府他們在做處理"},{"start":13843.899,"end":13844.299,"text":"大概會是什麼時候"},{"start":13863.154,"end":13868.099,"text":"前些日子是讓康橋的學生騎自行車環島我相信部長也知道遇到獨駕的時候逆向撞擊造成學生心重傷"},{"start":13886.457,"end":13903.578,"text":"我相信部長對這件事情應該有清楚掌握自行車的路權跟道路規劃近年來在永續運輸跟觀光促進的風潮之下開始受到政府的大力支持這是好事可是其實仔細看的話政府對自行車的定位好像就是在觀光"},{"start":13904.539,"end":13931.516,"text":"就沒了日常的通勤跟生活道路的騎乘完全比較沒有明確的規劃所以在台灣騎腳踏車的話真的就好像一場那個障礙賽一樣所以想問部長就你了解除了建制觀光用途的環島的路網以外交通部這裡有沒有任何針對自行車通勤跟道路環境規劃有沒有一些基本的政策方針報告委員通勤的部分是由內政部來做規劃不是由交通部來做規劃"},{"start":13932.56,"end":13958.128,"text":"所以就會是在那你們這邊搭配的會有什麼因為還是有些事實上是在公路上不見得事實上是我們目前有四年的這個自行車的整整整個環島的規劃的計畫但這個部分其實會比較不是偏向通通勤我們是比較偏向觀光對交通部來講我們的權責上我們是負責這一塊那至於通勤都市內的部分主要都是由內政部來負責不過因為"},{"start":13964.195,"end":13984.794,"text":"有些我剛剛提到有些還是是在公路的範圍所以但這個事實上是都市人本交通規劃設計手冊對人本交通的考量江部也一直在推人本交通那不知道就是說整個的自行車你的整個環境規劃跟改善完全"},{"start":13985.655,"end":14010.531,"text":"部內到底有沒有有一些搭配的甚至不會是因為今天要講人本交通可是人本交通一個就行人一個事實上就是我們的綠色運輸就是自行車嘛事實上是最為能夠是環保的運輸工具所以就希望說在整個的交通工程規劃裡邊能夠去做這樣的一個考量為什麼我這樣講呢我們就來看"},{"start":14014.954,"end":14032.167,"text":"在整個的道路環境裡面很常事實上是沒有給自行車有這樣子的一個空間所在使得即便事實上是台北市看起來也都沒有自行車的車道的一些空間那在下一頁可以看到就三年多前的話我們的著名的作家那個陳靜"},{"start":14033.508,"end":14049.88,"text":"陳柔靜女士她當時騎自行車回家的時候路上遭後方的機車撞擊交通部邀集相關單位來做會刊最後得到結論竟然會是說原來標牌事實上有自行車跟機車就是只是把自行車拿掉甚至道路的標"},{"start":14051.896,"end":14073.173,"text":"縣也是這樣子就是把自行車這個拿掉而已反過來就會是在所以可以看到右手邊這邊圖片裡邊少了自行車可是要求事實上是人行道事實上你看都是紙災可是他就說要用牽行的方式根本似乎好像是也那到底我們的自行車要騎在哪邊呢部長"},{"start":14075.838,"end":14092.553,"text":"報告委員您所說的這個應該是台22線所以台2乙線抱歉台2乙線那所以交通部會出面來協調因為跟應該跟公路局相關那這個設置確實我覺得還不夠好那這個部分我們可以來再做討論"},{"start":14093.766,"end":14121.935,"text":"對 就要麻煩 否則你今天發生事故然後最後的方法就是說把那個耗置裡邊或者是我們的牌面裡邊把它拿掉或者是標線裡邊拿掉這個根本就是沒有解決這個問題那在下一頁看到就是整個不友善的法律規範我們會覺得比較沒有辦法讓我們的整個自行車在行走的時候比如我們的標線車道就連續性比較不足入口的設計又中斷 還有"},{"start":14123.375,"end":14146.391,"text":"現在目前法規規定的法定超車側向間距是50公分全球事實上是最低可是在宣導的時候又說要1公尺我就不知道說法定是講50然後宣導的時候講1公尺一個50公分跟1公尺差很多那我就不知道說可是如果50公分的話的確事實上是比較過於狹隘比較沒有辦法再做這樣的法定超車"},{"start":14147.231,"end":14164.548,"text":"這個我不知道是不是可以去做考量去做調修法令如果有需要修訂的話有需要修正我們再來做修正這個沒有問題我們來做檢討再麻煩那因為我們現在看又希望推動那個綠色運輸可是自行車使用率是逐年衰退的"},{"start":14165.789,"end":14169.492,"text":"跟國際的趨勢呢事實上是背道而馳所以我們的2009年的5.6%降到2020年只剩下2.9%可是道路環境如果不改善的話沒有配套的話大家很難達到所以也麻煩我們交通部針對於這一塊是不是應該邀請"},{"start":14185.383,"end":14211.033,"text":"請我們的地方政府能夠一起共同來研商去做討論如果這有牽扯到內政部的話就是不是可以因為交通我們覺得主政還是在你這邊是不是可以邀請內政在都市裡面都是內政部需要我們去邀請他們我們會去邀請都市事實上是內政可是我覺得公路的話有些還是在你們的範圍希望能夠兼顧安全跟現實需求而且我想江部也是在推人本交通為本以上謝謝"},{"start":14212.653,"end":14236.836,"text":"好 謝謝林業勤委員現在請陳俊宇委員執行好 謝謝主席 我們有請陳部長好 交通部陳部長"},{"start":14241.089,"end":14243.479,"text":"好 部長午安委員好 午安"},{"start":14244.568,"end":14272.421,"text":"我們基隆到石垣島的這個渡輪航線預計在今年的九月份要開啟了那也是大家所期盼的一條新的這個旅遊觀光的一個航線那目前初步規劃每週是三班的航次往返那我想要就教部長就是說這一艘船未來他定位就是石垣島跟這個基隆往返最主要的一個船隻"},{"start":14274.382,"end":14301.561,"text":"那他除了每週三班的這個航線以外其餘的時間是否可以來增加一個航線從基隆到蘇澳到石垣石垣到蘇澳到基隆是不是可以四航一班有沒有辦法因為這之前我也提過說有沒有機會讓一艘這個渡輪可以來作為我們藍色公路的一個替代包委目前這個船公司還在申請當中"},{"start":14302.902,"end":14330.953,"text":"那也都還沒有真正定案在定案之後當然航商他一定會去思考他的船的使用率一週只有三班會不會使用率太低他一定會思考這個問題那當他思考這個問題的時候或許我們就可以建議他有沒有可能把蘇澳也加進來這個部分我們來協助跟他溝通因為這一艘船未來如果可以的話我還希望說可以跑基隆 蘇澳 花蓮花蓮 蘇澳 基隆"},{"start":14331.823,"end":14347.271,"text":"因為現在塑化公路的這個穩定性大家都還會擔心那假設我們每週有固定的一個航班就好因為之前本來有一艘利納輪在跑那後來當然也是成本的問題所以利納輪也結束了"},{"start":14347.811,"end":14374.263,"text":"那是不是未來如果石原島的這一艘郵輪在他這個往返石原島的這個控雨的時間如果可以的話我要拜託我們交通部是不是可以跟他們協商一下來增加這兩個航線讓我們這個藍色公路的部分可以有一個希望報告委員我們藍色公路的部分目前正在做整體的規劃不是只有這艘船還有其他的船那我們會做整體的討論因為11月"},{"start":14376.944,"end":14403.139,"text":"去年11月的時候我們卓榮泰院長有到宜蘭去考察相關的交通建設那也在這個會議的過程裡面我也曾經建議說是不是可以來建置這個東部的一個藍色公路那卓院長非常認同他也認為說是未來政府積極要去構建的一個部分那我也請那個陳部長可以來協助幫忙看能不能完成這個有這個目標目前正在構建當中"},{"start":14405.061,"end":14428.002,"text":"再來就是我們目前台鐵公司在推規劃特色列車的促進觀光的工作之前在台中我們海豐號現在已經開始在南港到宜蘭往返也帶動了整個"},{"start":14429.223,"end":14451.659,"text":"這個東部的一個觀光的一個產值那這非常好那未來因為宜蘭縣目前還有22座的這個台鐵車站可能就是未來配合這個鐵路高架之後那是不是有一些車站會去再做更新或是這個架高的部分那我是希望說還沒有做之前我們一定要好好的規劃"},{"start":14452.8,"end":14473.069,"text":"像頭城的部分,北方的頭城的部分,它有一個漁鐵五漁村那是不是在這個車站的設計上也可以加入漁村的元素讓整個觀光的感覺可以下車站之後就可以感覺到已經來到一個漁村的觀光"},{"start":14475.85,"end":14495.561,"text":"這個場域讓民眾有一個感受那未來南部的地方就是在靠近這個蘇澳蘇澳也希望能夠來占庇這個魚鐵五魚村的概念這是現在目前地方積極在爭取當中那他們那邊也有一個五個車站是不是可以來搭配"},{"start":14497.407,"end":14506.527,"text":"北方的這個頭城跟南方的蘇澳讓整個宜蘭縣未來車站的這個特色可以在我們更新之後展現出來"},{"start":14507.942,"end":14533.03,"text":"這部分要請部長報告委員您所提醒的這件事我們會事先先考慮如果到時候真的要做更新的時候當然會融合地方的特色尤其是我們宜蘭蠻特別就是說沿線都有觀光的資源那如何結合地方的特色讓觀光的資源能夠充分發揮這個部分我們會來做考量因為暫停的這個美學改造是可以引進我們這個國際遊客的一個"},{"start":14533.73,"end":14556.038,"text":"很重要的門面把整個場站裡面的後車的空間都能夠翻新之後我相信再加上建置出入口很多的無障礙的空間一定可以讓遊客在車站通行的時候能夠有一個非常好的出入空間這要拜託我們交通部"},{"start":14558.62,"end":14583.081,"text":"簡單問一下就是我們5月5號那個高鐵延伸的部分初步的這個環境影響評估初審這部分現在目前補件的程序到哪裡了我們今天已經把這個補件的相關的公文跟書件都送到環境部那應該沒問題是的我們會再來協調環境部的儘速召開第二次的這個專案小組審查會議"},{"start":14583.962,"end":14604.231,"text":"好 這要拜託部長 拜託局長因為後面七月份還有一個初審嘛接下來才有正式的審查所以這個部分 相關的補件可能要拜託鐵道局這邊積極的辦理有 我們都按照期程在辦理好 未來這個宜蘭的重大交通建設真的要拜託我們交通部盡量來協助好 我們來努力好 謝謝部長 謝謝局長好 謝謝陳俊宇委員的執行現在請黃建斌委員執行"},{"start":14621.567,"end":14636.034,"text":"好謝謝主席我們有請陳思凱部長還有台鐵的鄭光源董事長現在請陳部長鄭董事長那個總經理也來幫忙一下總經理"},{"start":14638.124,"end":14662.679,"text":"委員好部長好 董事長好 海總經理好今天是董事長生日第一次來我們立法院來備詢嘛首先本席先跟董事長恭喜那過去本席跟台鐵的互動一直都非常的密切互動也很良善未來我們希望可以去延續這樣的互動一起為我們台東的交通來努力那因為時間的關係本席就直接切入重點"},{"start":14663.78,"end":14691.999,"text":"最先沒電話 再乘車 本身是要問的議題啦這樣 本市進來立法院之後就不斷地跟我們轉來反映台東的大眾交通運輸不像西部西部有高鐵 有台鐵 有客運 有高速公路有快速道路 有捷運 有輕軌台東除了昂貴的飛機票之外我們就只有這一條鐵路在大眾運輸來說那很一樣的 目前僅剩的這條鐵路台東人都缺乏安全的保障"},{"start":14692.839,"end":14707.578,"text":"我們從2018年的普瑪號事件到2021年的太魯閣號事件造成數十人喪生 數十個家庭破碎 數百人受傷造成我們東部人永遠無法撫平的傷痛"},{"start":14708.419,"end":14733.696,"text":"那去年的0403強震又造成東部鐵路公路嚴重的破壞然後到現在我們中央承諾的台鐵宜花東地區鐵路設施安全改善計畫進度嚴重的延宕那花東快速道路先前就被我們交通部以經濟效益低退回我想你不給台東人一條安全回家的道路現在卻要調漲台東人的票價這樣對台東人有公平嗎"},{"start":14736.758,"end":14752.297,"text":"那去年本席兩度在立法院提案通過就是要求我們將在東部災害災損恢復之前動漲台鐵台東東部的這個東部幹線票價那未來票價的方案也應該要考慮到我們整個花東運輸的特殊的"},{"start":14753.679,"end":14765.306,"text":"這個原因來做調整那當時獲得交通部還有台鐵的承諾那到現在台北到台東的志強號全票來回飆漲了306進了票來回飆漲了152那高雄到台東的志強號來回票漲了246進了票來回漲了124元"},{"start":14774.272,"end":14799.403,"text":"那全票票價漲幅最高高達33.98%那最可怕的是我們台東其實老人人口非常多沒有想到我們的敬老票價也高漲幅也高達了34.26那這樣一漲里外的遊子來台東讀書的學生仰賴台東觀光的業者還有必須仰賴台鐵出院門的這些長輩負擔非常的沉重那本席不斷的強調公佈票價動漲不是特權"},{"start":14804.045,"end":14815.543,"text":"是台東人應有的平權我想不論是直接折扣或是政府的補貼應該都要看見我們東部交通的困境那即便我知道這樣的訴求會面對很多的冷嘲熱諷"},{"start":14819.755,"end":14834.635,"text":"我想中央也不見得聽得見不過面對這樣的狀況我想台中的困境之外先是無法無法理解跟想像因此我還是要堅定的為台東發聲我希望中央能夠遵守承諾動漲東部幹線的票價那另外"},{"start":14835.276,"end":14863.99,"text":"我也要跟台鐵董事長來反映很多台東的大學生來跟本席反映說過去我們台鐵有比較那個台東給台東學生的這個折扣的這個票價的折扣那現在卻沒有那因此本席具體的建議台鐵應該比照高鐵像現在當初你之前在隔壁我們這塊這個保溫嘛針對這個離峰時段的車次給予學生票價優惠我們不但可以讓學生的成本降交通成本降低也可以降低我們空位率的"},{"start":14864.71,"end":14878.966,"text":"的情況減少損失同時也可以刺激我們東部的觀光請問董事長這邊是不是可以來研議這部分委員好我想我們這部分的話對大學生的這部分我們可以來考慮看看"},{"start":14880.441,"end":14905.857,"text":"所以再多的大學生都覺得 同時在高鐵的整個經驗風險非常成功讓高鐵整個轉靠運營很重要那我相信期待董事長來到台鐵之後也能夠帶動整個我們台鐵的經營方式那最重要的還是要再次呼籲請中央能夠正視 部長也要請正視我們東部交通的困境那這裡拜託部長 拜託董事長要很建立那以上 本期的質詢到此 謝謝謝謝委員好"},{"start":14913.096,"end":14931.652,"text":"下一位請張雅琳委員謝謝主席,我們先有請矢澤董事長董事長待會再請部長"},{"start":14937.615,"end":14962.993,"text":"我想請教董事長因為今天其實你已經也公佈了就是說你對於高鐵的2.0的一個期待跟規劃那我想請教你請問一下我現在有看到這個暑假高鐵有推出這個少年票但是你知道嗎我們現在在兒童的部分我們是有半價的票然後我們在大學生的部分有五折到八折左右不等的但是我們的青少年的票12到18歲你知道他是付什麼樣子的價格嗎"},{"start":14964.802,"end":14993.808,"text":"他是在暑假限定的部分對可是他平常呢平常是沒有折扣的平常他就是成人權票喔這裡有非常多的家長來跟我陳情喔就是說為什麼我們對於18歲以上的大學生都有補助可是我們對18歲12到18歲這一塊是完全沒有折扣跟優惠等於是說小孩子過12歲以後家長就要把他付出一個等同是成人票的價格這非常的奇怪那甚至有兒少代表在上個禮拜的時候呢他也有對我說"},{"start":14995.369,"end":15013.485,"text":"他其實每一個月大概會有一到兩次會來到台北那有時候呢如果是參加政府部門的會議的話會補助交通費可是如果是開記者會或是其他的一些諮詢會議例如我們的公聽會或是我們的座談會等等的一年大概有三到四次他是要自己付費的"},{"start":15014.085,"end":15035.528,"text":"好等於是說他要付9000到12000的費用可是如果今天是大學生上來開會的時候他只要付4500到6000所以我會認為說今天我們要做高鐵2.0的時候我們是不是也可以把青少年的這一個部分的學生票價是不是可以有一些方案來支持呢不曉得董事長您的想法是什麼"},{"start":15036.564,"end":15054.903,"text":"好 謝謝委員我想這確實是一個課題啦 我承認啦但是可能要給我們一些時間來研究一下因為這個大學生會有這樣的優惠當然是因為我們普遍覺得大學生是有非常眾多是離開家鄉去外地就學"},{"start":15056.004,"end":15076.701,"text":"那兒童票12歲以下這是法定的規定所以剛好就是這一段這個中間的這個12到18嘛變成一個這個大家好像忽略之處啦所以我們事實上是用暑假的少年票來彌補但是委員剛剛講說是不是能夠變成一個普遍性的這個措施是不是給我們一些時間來研究因為這個考慮到這個相關的這個計算的問題"},{"start":15078.906,"end":15093.32,"text":"我想你們可能會去計算的例如就是說到底損失會有差多少嘛對不對所以是有一些精算的部需要去精算嘛那這個部分大概需要多久的時間呢我想至少要給我們三個月的時間"},{"start":15093.68,"end":15121.308,"text":"三個月的時間好喔沒關係那我們就三個月之後我希望這份報告也可以提供給我們讓我們一起來看看到底這個部分是可不可行這樣子那我這邊也再提一下為什麼說我們不能夠只有暑假有因為我想過去部長就是董事長您過去也擔任過文化部長對不對我們其實有推出了很多希望少年可以去親近藝術親近博物館親近很多文化空間的一些活動"},{"start":15122.068,"end":15138.836,"text":"那這些活動需不需要交通費可能是會要的因為我們不能從台北的角度在思考有非常多的小孩 青少年他必須要從南部移動到台北那甚至我們教育部自己都有15到35歲的一個青年撞遊的計畫那等於是說今天大家都拿到一樣的補助"},{"start":15140.818,"end":15152.387,"text":"這個青少年國高中生要負擔的交通費會先比大學生多所以這部分我是希望就是董事長您一定要來為這些年輕的孩子這些青少年"},{"start":15153.601,"end":15182.465,"text":"不管是這個學習的教育的禁用性文化的禁用性上面來做一個思考那我想也給就是董事長一個簡報分析一下其實在歐日他們都有針對於學生譬如就大學以下從大學到以下的學生會有一些同等的優惠那其實概念都是一樣的概念就是希望說讓他們可以去了解這個國家不同的地方他們可以去撞遊所以我會認為這件事情是必要的"},{"start":15182.865,"end":15199.831,"text":"那不曉得說剛聽起來是說三個月之後會有一個可能初步的一個規劃的方向嘛對不對精算之後可能會有一個委員報告過去我在文化部事實上文化幣也是我辦的嘛對那也是我讓他下下延伸到15歲現在更向下的延伸了對沒錯不過這個距離確實是一個體驗的一個"},{"start":15204.392,"end":15227.703,"text":"必要的過程所以事實上您提的這個部分我們願意來仔細來研究好不好因為我希望就是說我們今天讓孩子不管是他參與公共事務也好或是他參與文化的活動也好都不應該會因為他可能無法負擔這麼高額的一個交通費而導致他無法參與這樣子的活動那最後我也想請部長可不可以部長就是我也想要針對這一題"},{"start":15230.282,"end":15232.243,"text":"大學生有時候是因為他就讀的地方跟他的住家其實有一段距離所以高鐵當時會有這樣的思考"},{"start":15248.973,"end":15267.573,"text":"但是大學以下的大部分都是在自己的都市周圍活動那有時候會因為要出遊或者參加活動那當然這個部分需要來考慮但不過我也是希望說呼籲一下年輕的學生如果有機會的話多搭台鐵也還不錯我們希望多一些人可以搭台鐵大家不要只思考高鐵"},{"start":15268.494,"end":15293.25,"text":"當然當然 可是像我也 我覺得大家也必須誠實的面對啦就是說有些會議啦 兒少代表要參加的會議可能就是他從高雄出來 像我們剛剛問的那個就是他從高雄出來他來到台北可能就會花非常多的時間所以對他來說 這個我們可以來討論對 所以我覺得還是要去考量到因為我剛剛講的這個是不管是日本的JR包含日本的新幹線也都有提供相關的優惠那這個部分也希望部長跟一起來支持一起來討論 好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝張雅玲委員"},{"start":15299.738,"end":15320.453,"text":"部長已經開始幫台鐵在拉生意了下一位請林國成委員 召委發言好 謝謝我們主席請交通部陳部長台鐵政董事長 高鐵石董事長"},{"start":15333.893,"end":15343.34,"text":"三位因為我就不一無稱呼最主要我一向主張是這樣理性來問政但是"},{"start":15344.441,"end":15362.383,"text":"從小問題來解決小問題解決就沒有大問題這是我一項不管我在當議員不管我在當立委我的原則是這樣但是我說實在啦交通的東西我極力反對有政治思想"},{"start":15363.064,"end":15375.941,"text":"所以大家可以看得出來從這一年多來我從來不會把政治掛帥這是我的原則但是我們就就事論事來談問題當然我們也尊重"},{"start":15378.945,"end":15394.475,"text":"我們陳部長 左院長他來任用這兩位當然啦 如果你往好的方面去想當然都有專精啊那你往壞的方面去想確確實實有很多質疑啊"},{"start":15395.515,"end":15412.822,"text":"那當然因為既然都已經接任那唯一就只有一個問題什麼問題為所有的高鐵台鐵去把它做得更完善這是非常重要的來那個台鐵我們鄭董事長"},{"start":15414.58,"end":15435.4,"text":"我要跟你談的就是有小問題就會有大問題但是這裡面可以看得出來我感覺到非常奇怪怎麼董事長6月16號就任6月17號 6月18號 6月19號一連串的都是一些小問題"},{"start":15436.792,"end":15461.998,"text":"那早不發生晚不發生你就任以後都是發生這些可以預防而不該發生的問題啊都發生所以我舉例啊就是在七堵車庫車輛臨檢的時候未依照SOP這裡面喔這裡面發生就是散報的問題那個部長"},{"start":15465.114,"end":15486.336,"text":"還有總經理應該你知道可是這裡最不可以原諒來鄭董6月19號花生賞報6月24號又花生這代表什麼就代表麻痺麻痺都不能解決但是這些事情花生"},{"start":15487.537,"end":15513.611,"text":"其實也不是董事長你叫他發聲可是這個就代表什麼我們內部橫向的這些聯繫跟我們掛有五個副總經理都沒有辦法發揮功能但是你們這五個副總經理都有各有棋子啊各有管轄那為什麼會發生這個事情"},{"start":15515.063,"end":15538.801,"text":"董事長為什麼其實這個6月19號這個發生七堵車窟的這個發生這個所謂的散爆這個問題這個也是因為沒有遵照SOP本來你要這個斷電的話你是兩邊兩端的這個接力線都要把它弄掉你才能夠做但是你只做一端那一端沒做那這樣就爆掉了那也是完全沒有做SOP的問題"},{"start":15539.562,"end":15561.832,"text":"那6月20號應該也是完全一個意思至於6月21號站這個站會員情緒失控這個也是教育的問題因為這個組員可能他臨時他可能情緒上有失控那這個也是我們的教育的問題所以在這怎麼做的話我想這就是剛才就要這個橫向的溝通"},{"start":15564.873,"end":15583.153,"text":"一向的溝通裡面另外就是說要有當則那麼就是說我們是要把這些看起來是小事把它分門別列譬如說我去年總共發生了979件的大大小小的事情那今年我們怎麼樣把它降下來所以我現在採取一個方式就是說"},{"start":15584.094,"end":15597.952,"text":"噴成北中南區每一個區你好好去檢討你這些問題在哪裡然後找出它的原因那怎麼樣把這些減到最低我現在準備從這個禮拜開始已經準備要開始了每個禮拜來檢討"},{"start":15599.533,"end":15611.942,"text":"我對你有信心啦因為我想我的代理主席都對你期待這麼高我也沒有什麼意見但是你是學企業的人的管理非常重要因為台鐵的問題他那種"},{"start":15615.49,"end":15630.465,"text":"非常結構性的沒有辦法去解決問題是非常嚴重所以我必須要跟馮總跟鄭董要特別提醒一下那另外一個我接下來我都談小問題談小問題那個不對吧那個漲價那個是誰的"},{"start":15639.278,"end":15664.138,"text":"好 那個另外一個就是便當的問題我跟你講 我也替你們便當做過行銷但是 風評還不錯但是 董事長這個也是我們金雞母之一啊除了我們現在是花東線賺錢接下來就是我們的便當賺錢耶保證 我跟你講 這裡面為什麼最近"},{"start":15669.242,"end":15683.793,"text":"這個蟑螂的問題會這麼嚴重我吃很多下去我們陳學生前召委他每次在當召委都是要指定台鐵便當我也不知道吃多少下去為什麼這個衛生品質這麼差要不要改要不要改蟑螂蛋白質多"},{"start":15694.049,"end":15716.864,"text":"這個跟委員報告這個當然要改那尤其是像便當裡面發生這個小蟑螂其實是完全是不應該董事長你不用解說啦我提出問題是要讓你改進是的我提出問題要部長知道這雖然很小的事但是小事就會變大事啊"},{"start":15717.662,"end":15740.801,"text":"你知道嗎 還好是沒有集體那種複卸的那如果這樣的話 我們的金招牌就會蕩然無存啦董事長 總經理 這個你們要去注意啦衛生很重要 好不好好 請你謝忻好 那個鄭董 來 接下來高鐵主席 給我一點時間來"},{"start":15744.844,"end":15757,"text":"我想時事董事長啊當然啦因為一上任啊大家可能對你有質疑啦但是剛好高鐵該做的都已經做但是小問題還是要解決"},{"start":15758.052,"end":15783.983,"text":"我舉例你過去對文化這些有非常重視那你過去當勞保局的總經理也對勞工心生有所以我要勉勵你第一個對工會要持以尊重溝通第二個對文化現在高鐵就是這樣嘛硬體方面各方面的營運都沒有問題了嘛"},{"start":15785.936,"end":15802.947,"text":"但是現在就是什麼小問題該改進的就改進所以很簡單我們現在我們現在接下來好我要跟你講人家都已經世衛化在那個你們現在販賣機還要投幣這個沒辦法你們的水準這麼高"},{"start":15810.046,"end":15826.229,"text":"阿耍下去服務態度這麼滿意但是為什麼這個販賣機還要再投幣還要再投幣人家現在不是耶義卡不管是任何一個義卡通貨什麼一逼錢就出來了啊"},{"start":15828.05,"end":15850.195,"text":"這個數位支付的普遍化 連路邊攤都這樣咧 啊咱個體是水準穿高的咧為什麼這個不改 所以我要建議 石董事長雖然小事 但是董事長注意 總經理去執行我相信 你們也有很多副總經理啊 各格都有在 我一向主張"},{"start":15851.417,"end":15870.877,"text":"就是要集體領導分工合作這樣才擺祕不會有意思啊不是只有全部高鐵的事情通通都是怪董事長這點我也不認同但是董事長要去做領導之作用所以這個可以盡量改嘛"},{"start":15871.872,"end":15887.757,"text":"那最後一個也是小問題那大家已經吵了老半天的就是行動電話你們這個解決我跟你講高鐵我們常做很簡單七成的地方是接得到的"},{"start":15889.341,"end":15905.989,"text":"三層的地方是接不到那南道都沒有辦法去現在我們數位部都已經在這裡連結了你們各個電信公司已經講了十幾年十幾年的立法委員都要求你們改"},{"start":15906.849,"end":15934.836,"text":"可是都沒有辦法改這個我也要給石董事長給你一個課題雖然小問題但是如果解決了以後就是使得董事長改變這些客戶百分之百服務的這些態度所以我還是這樣啦你們也不要答覆啦你們現在答覆起來我不太喜歡那種官樣的答覆但是我要讓部長知道這些雖然小問題"},{"start":15935.836,"end":15951.979,"text":"但是這個批評下去人家質疑下去小問題解決就沒有大問題所以我要啟齊兩位董事長花灰你們的專才該解決的一定要解決這樣人家才會看看到真正"},{"start":15952.947,"end":15981.241,"text":"台鐵在拖變 高鐵在成長這樣的話老百姓對於在陳士凱部長的領導之下讓人家感覺完全不一樣的這些拖變這是我要特別要啟齊 好不好好 所以...好 謝謝好 各位觀眾朋友 謝謝台鐵便當是我的最愛給他鼓勵 不要給他漏氣 好不好"},{"start":15983.263,"end":16004.476,"text":"鄭董一定可以完成任務行動電話那個行動電源部長你可以跟中華電信交代一下可以處理的你們現在在火車站有沒有在高鐵上面有時候接不到電話中華電信絕對可以處理你交代他們就交代那個董事長去辦閒董去辦嘛好下一位請張祺凱委員發言"},{"start":16018.76,"end":16045.205,"text":"來請保定好 那個交通部陳部長委員好部長是21號啊 台北市這個街頭在這個中號東樓啊 叫這個新生南路口發生一件非常嚴重的這個車禍他是一位77歲的這個耐性男子 他駕駛的是這個吊車"},{"start":16047.615,"end":16075.558,"text":"結果啊他行進這個路口的時候他轉彎的時候他撞倒了前面的三部車子其中有一位是18歲一個女騎士他因為慢慢這個車子點壓過去當場就死亡了另外一位男騎士是受傷了這不幸肅爛這個18歲的這個女性她媽媽在整理她遺物的時候她看著照片說"},{"start":16077.58,"end":16102.686,"text":"我女兒啊當下是多麼痛苦她媽媽說她的女兒青春才開始18歲而且她是在守法的狀況下喔她那時候是騎車 機車停在紅燈等候區這件很難過的事情她兩個問題非常嚴重"},{"start":16105.546,"end":16131.317,"text":"就是我們高齡啊 長輩開車的 開車這個問題而且是吊車的問題 這個等一下要好好檢討另外一個讓我們也是心震膽跳的這個理性發生的事情有可能在台北街頭有可能是我們任何一個人都會碰到的他完全守法 否定他在完全守法的一個狀況下發生在他身上的事情有可能發生在我跟你身上"},{"start":16132.62,"end":16144.912,"text":"這是很嚴重的一個事情所以今天我要很沉重的檢討這個個案包括這個駕駛說他是途中有身體不舒服我也想從制度面來解決這個問題現在我們台灣要駕駛這個吊車"},{"start":16150.526,"end":16168.066,"text":"我去看了這個規定就是道路交通安全規則83條12他現在就是零有大貨車他就可以去開這個吊車了第二個他完全沒有連寄的這個限制對不對"},{"start":16170.273,"end":16198.699,"text":"可是我們來做個對比我們來看看那現在開計程車開計程車啊他年紀限制是在20歲以上60歲65歲以下那如果最多最多你通過一些體檢最多最多上限就到70啊然後如果是大型的客車跟公車才68歲結果現在發生這個開吊車完全沒有年紀的這個限制是不是應該考慮保定在年紀上要做一些修正"},{"start":16200.097,"end":16229.43,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們會來做檢討啦這個部分確實它是特種車不算是職業駕駛對於職業駕駛我們是要求是68歲那因為它是特種車不算在職業駕駛裡面所以它並沒有這樣子的限制那這個部分我們會來做檢討因為已經發生很嚴重的一個事情我剛剛講它發生這個漢氏是有可能發生在台灣每一個人的身上它完全守法啊所以以後是什麼你騎著車出去或者你走路在馬路上如果碰到這個大型的機具"},{"start":16231.161,"end":16254.946,"text":"就可能會出狀況所以我今天具體提三個建議的好不好對於這個大型機具的這個駕駛啊年紀是不是上限應該要往下修要訂個上限而且可以比照我們就比照駕駛的這個年紀我們的職業駕駛的其實不都超過60、68歲嗎好不好盡量往這個方向來走訂一個上限然後68歲是一個第二個"},{"start":16256.389,"end":16270.925,"text":"現在只有這個簡易這個認知的測驗嘛我們明確的要求實際倒入駕駛的這個技能的這個測驗強化他這個實際駕駛這個能力好不好這個應該是馬上可以做好不好因為他身體沒鬆開啊連續大本來就有風險嘛"},{"start":16275.031,"end":16304.109,"text":"好不好第二個這個趕快做那第三個如果是一定年紀上的他要開這個吊車要有些限制例如說晚上是不要開或者是不要太高速還有剛剛講的駕駛的實際的技能要去強化好不好我們保障每個人然後講一方面是開車的人可能這樣也是比較危險的第二個每個行車騎車的人路人安全都順便保障好不好我們期待不要再有這樣悲慘的事情發生這三大要求"},{"start":16304.949,"end":16314.575,"text":"好不好所以你回去我們來研議好不好好 謝謝希望不要再有這樣的悲劇發生我們每個人在路上不管騎車走路都是安全的謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝張祺凱委員的執行現在請鄭天才委員執行"},{"start":16337.308,"end":16365.373,"text":"主席有請交通部陳部長交通部陳部長還有台鐵公司台鐵公司鄭董事長部長好委員好還有這個我們鄭董事長好委員好這個我們非常期待這個鄭董事長這個能夠到台鐵"},{"start":16367.312,"end":16392.854,"text":"這個因為台鐵有很多需要去這個電格的地方這個我是台鐵的最長的顧客這個因為我住花蓮我的險區又是全台灣所以常常常常坐火車好我們看這個台鐵歐茲斯基最近的例子"},{"start":16394.434,"end":16419.806,"text":"最近的例子台鐵七堵機誤斷閃報以人為疏失太魯閣號也出包這是最近6月20號的那這個剛剛講的台鐵右船閃報這個是這個在這個最近也是最近的6月20號當然這個"},{"start":16423.496,"end":16450.737,"text":"南港這個業台這個也產生這個一個旅客採空艦險好所以剛擠的很多其實很多所以很多需要去改進的安全最重要好我就擠一個這個也擠一個例子台鐵這個線上換票就是一般座位心事強好讓董事那個董事長知道"},{"start":16452.806,"end":16458.049,"text":"這個新志強號有所謂的騰雲座艙騰雲座艙就是高鐵的商務艙一樣這個也是一個車廂我也講了很多次"},{"start":16468.444,"end":16494.892,"text":"最近才可以線上換票他本來訂了這個一般的座位他要改這個上屋的以前都不行了現在可以了現在還是一個唯一從新職講號台鐵營運開始已經很多年囉如果我我買了一般座位然後要去"},{"start":16496.892,"end":16524.818,"text":"跟這個列車長說我要換因為還有空位嘛商務商還有空位騰訊桌上還有空位所以我要去換我要加價不行喔台鐵不行高鐵一直都可以我也常坐高鐵因為我的西部要到高雄到屏東也要坐高鐵都可以喔所以這個部分台鐵"},{"start":16526.621,"end":16537.402,"text":"是不想賺錢還是怎麼樣他說系統沒有然後又說我沒有授權之類的我都沒有表明身份我都沒有表明我是立委他們也不認識我"},{"start":16539.59,"end":16561.367,"text":"他說不行我說你要建議啊我說他會建議建議很多年了謝謝委員的建議五月份開始這個部分已經可以了這個部分是這樣我只是舉例子讓董事長知道台北有很多需要改革的地方接下來比較需要這個"},{"start":16567.535,"end":16596.747,"text":"也希望部長還有我們的這個董事長支持的漲價啦台鐵已經漲價了這個台北到花蓮漲了32.51%比這個平均調幅26.8還高嘛高雄到台東一樣調漲34.41%也調漲所以本席啊一再的跟部長還有前任的台鐵董事長提到希望"},{"start":16598.353,"end":16616.39,"text":"台東花蓮的部分能夠能夠不要漲價但是已經漲了所謂提了一個優惠方案那提的這個優惠方案我也質詢了很多次所以現在是用優惠方案需要有台鐵的會員台鐵的會員"},{"start":16619.682,"end":16646.225,"text":"那因為過去大家沒有習慣台鐵的會員現在突然要台鐵會員等於是也很難也做了那沒辦法所以本席也建議也發文給這個台鐵也曾經也在那邊質詢過就是說現在那個有優惠的部分優惠措施僅限涉及花東的部分那我是建議"},{"start":16647.657,"end":16668.098,"text":"第一個身份證UVU就是花蓮 V就是台東附籍身份證字號UV包括他的子女配偶另外就是說在花蓮台東就學就業的有台東大學"},{"start":16669.093,"end":16694.631,"text":"對不對 有東華大學在那邊念書的這些學生還不容易願意去那邊就業的也希望能夠尤其是老人啊老人他就不會用會員啊他就不會用會員是不是也能夠列入這個優惠當然我經費來我們不能給台鐵多了這樣的支出我會協調國發會啊"},{"start":16698.806,"end":16708.63,"text":"國發會希望用花東基金來去支應這個經費部長台鐵董事長我早上也有質詢國發會"},{"start":16711.01,"end":16735.203,"text":"希望趕快開會可以嗎報告委員在國發會開會的過程當中台東縣政府跟花蓮縣政府有表示不希望用國發基金這個花東基金不希望用國發會的花東基金所以也要拜託委員也跟地方政府去溝通一下請他們不要反對這件事不是不是這個部長我當然會跟那個國發會講"},{"start":16737.924,"end":16750.861,"text":"因為國會今天早上並沒有這樣說我看會議記錄裡面是這樣寫的第二個花東基金有屬於地商政府之用的部分他有分配"},{"start":16752.522,"end":16769.675,"text":"有屬於中央可以調配的部分就是要由國安會就中央調配的那個部分來去支應 好不好我們要繼續 我禮拜五我也希望大家都支持 我禮拜五開協調會時間的關係 張偉已經站起來很久了後面還有很多議題 下次我們再來好 謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝鄭天才委員的執行現在請王美惠委員執行"},{"start":16790.273,"end":16793.738,"text":"主席,我們請補充,還有請鐵道局、台鐵、高鐵的董事長"},{"start":16806.837,"end":16833.843,"text":"董事長 大家好在這裡本身想要跟我們講講長久以來應該是大家如果來到台北坐車的時候都會坐高鐵的因為高鐵的地點好不好遵時這是大家所認定的所以在這個過程當中我們看到保證對於我們的高鐵的當事長"},{"start":16835.703,"end":16843.988,"text":"的支持,所以派來變代替的可以是對的,但是在這個過程當中,我如果要回去坐車,我每天來,回去之後,臨盤的時間,我就會去車站看看,結果走著走著,剛好5月29日,我們的變動者應該是,我們台鐵的"},{"start":16866.993,"end":16890.031,"text":"總經理很了解,因為我們當事長那時候還沒來我在那裡走走,看看,我覺得你們的民進黨,比起台北市長還要慘你們知道嗎,你們在那裡開記者會的時候,我看到熊熊,看到扁桃我說,啊,這做得不錯,我剛在那裡,去哪裡簽一個名"},{"start":16896.237,"end":16899.88,"text":"他剛才問你,鍾英麗你覺得這個什麼來拜託一下,好不好鍾英麗,台灣世界,大陸製造的在你們的寶箱、你們的世界,你們敢不願意一下這個東西,台灣沒辦法做嗎?"},{"start":16927.182,"end":16928.483,"text":"太煩惱啦總經理報告委員我們你還要解釋喔不用啦我們現在也是鼓勵國產的商品啦什麼鼓勵你們本來你們台鐵就要做台灣的東西什麼的鼓勵"},{"start":16949.42,"end":16970.189,"text":"搞不完 報告齁 因為這裏還沒來呢所以 我也覺得說 都看到你過去的在那裏的破片所以我問問 就你的財情 能不能代替的 做得更好"},{"start":16971.562,"end":16984.917,"text":"你看這個 這麼小小的 什麼台灣設計大量製造的 那是要找死人啦委員部 我們的條件 一定要以台灣製造為主"},{"start":16987.182,"end":17003.674,"text":"在這要當事長說我們有很多代替的不足的地方我問你在高鐵的所有的經驗可以拿過來代替的剛才有很多人說到代替有很多的問題跟一個便當、一個電話說實在當事長我問"},{"start":17016.445,"end":17028.851,"text":"可以在年底看出我們台鐵的武功本身也覺得這雖然是稍微事情但是我們也要鼓勵台灣的這些企業來做才對不是去給大陸"},{"start":17039.871,"end":17056.504,"text":"你如果說我們台灣又沒辦法做,跟人家又有專利,這樣你叫人家做,我沒胃口,這很簡單的東西啦,跟董事長說會改進啦,在這裡本身要說對,普通,跟我們的董事長,跟新的董事長在這裡,跟他去"},{"start":17065.959,"end":17069.081,"text":"最近這幾個月都講到清華的問題在這裡我要主席拜託一兩分鐘的時間給我因為清華是對一個社區所可以進步的溝通的東西所以長久以來,不管是地方"},{"start":17093.847,"end":17108.777,"text":"要做當然也好,要吃飯也好,但如果我們有願意,有來生,看什麼方法,可以管理的溝通也好"},{"start":17110.134,"end":17123.504,"text":"我相信部長在座的委員也好,我們兩位當事長也好,也應該是做管理來有這個建設,本身是怎樣的探討,你們說嗯,跟這個"},{"start":17127.085,"end":17140.075,"text":"清潔,又剃老的,剃刀子的,現在就是教育區的鐵路高架,我們的教育區的火車站"},{"start":17141.381,"end":17146.124,"text":"整個要刷去旁邊,新的要做一個新的,所以我們後面會轉運站是不是可以納入說,有退步的高鐵回來不管是鄉親也好,還是要自己去找也好,可以有一條交通方便的地方"},{"start":17165.275,"end":17178.807,"text":"本身就是覺得現在要做,我們是不是可以願意讓納入內地看看因為我覺得這是一個非常大的工程,但是現在要改變的時候,沒有利用現在自己的機會去做"},{"start":17188.815,"end":17203.101,"text":"不然的話,我認為這是負上的構想,因為我們保證負本事,不說對不對,不說什麼,是為了我們家族的健康,來發揮,來建築所以我們保證,我們兩位董事長,跟我們的"},{"start":17214.825,"end":17232.845,"text":"鐵道局的局長幫我們跟他貫徹演繹一個清規可以讓人更方便雖然有反對的、有同意的我們不能因為反對,我們就不來演繹我們也不能因為同意的"},{"start":17237.373,"end":17258.494,"text":"我們不知道要怎麼做,所以經費大家都可以坐下來說當然在外面的台北,尤其在嘉義出來當然嘉義官司都不要出,中央來出最好尤其在高鐵出來,要一條道路"},{"start":17259.69,"end":17269.438,"text":"應該是高鐵 當局以來就要協助 跟官司的溝通才對因為今天的時間有発達 剛好當中我們的兩位當事長 部長找到 兩位當事長跟我們鐵道局長來我們希望這件事 早日可以有一個"},{"start":17285.768,"end":17290.611,"text":"看到這樣有希望有更加好家族關係的溝通可以更好 不能像說跟你們要請出台積電 跟你們溝通在一起這樣就不好 所以未來的時間我們要有很多 希望我們的部長跟我們的教委跟很多委員"},{"start":17309.442,"end":17312.85,"text":"都可以維持所有地方的建設 大家一起發表 以上"},{"start":17318.298,"end":17341.853,"text":"謝謝王美惠委員也拜託我們陳部長把他的建議納入非常審慎的評估因為這個我也會看過我會看過了我都記得不要無影無蹤這樣對地方的立委也有一點虧待王委員都已經在拜託了好 謝謝現在請"},{"start":17349.857,"end":17364.879,"text":"黃婕 黃婕 黃婕委員不在現在請喜智傑召委執行謝謝主席 我們先請台鐵台鐵 來 鄭董事長委員好"},{"start":17376.707,"end":17391.643,"text":"董事長這一份新聞你有沒有看到他罵那個旅客說眼睛瞎了嗎這個董事長知道嗎"},{"start":17396.626,"end":17424.296,"text":"這個新聞我沒有看到不過最近我們從公司化以後進來的一些員工離職率偏高這我知道總編你知不知道有這個事件?拋銷的事件有了解也做了檢討這個大家可以看到這一點同理心都沒有旅客在問說刷卡處在哪裡?"},{"start":17425.373,"end":17452.933,"text":"回答的近視你眼睛瞎了喔這太誇張了吧這種服務態度真的是非常的差我們真的是嚴厲的譴責那也希望說台鐵員工內部這個基本上對客戶的要求要再加強好那當然兵隊兵動三尺非一日之寒"},{"start":17454.746,"end":17456.569,"text":"剛剛董事也有提到你們的離職狀況蠻嚴重的那現在有沒有打算怎麼處理"},{"start":17462.657,"end":17488.033,"text":"我們現在大概處理就是說對這個新招募的員工我們以前過去是用統籌在北部來招考然後再分發我們現在要用各地區來單獨多元的招募用這個方式然後另外就是在這個薪水方面我們也要研擬一個比較合理的薪資那麼來招募這個部分"},{"start":17488.894,"end":17509.622,"text":"OK 我是這樣子講啦就是說其實員工有這麼誇張的態度當然有一部分的原因是他自己的問題他自己應該是佔最大的問題啦但是後面背後的原因就是說整個台鐵的員工的制度真的是需要做一個調整"},{"start":17511.022,"end":17527.055,"text":"那包括你看這些技術獎金啦文康活動啦薪資等等的啦這很多啦我想這個台鐵內部再做一個剛剛董事長提到了該怎麼調整就要調整那當然你這個員工禁用這個角度我覺得也不錯可以參考啦"},{"start":17527.956,"end":17554.904,"text":"就是說在地在地的員工在地徵才也許他住在在地他會留住的機會比較大所以我希望說台鐵公司化事實上真的是一個不好做的工作啦那還有很多需要再努力的地方希望說董事長跟總經理辛苦一點後續趕快補強是 我們掃這方面來做好 那個鳳山車站現在總經理"},{"start":17557.97,"end":17583.86,"text":"前幾天才到我那邊去那先跟董事長報告一下就是說總之你希望說626到底有沒有人來招標報告委員我們626的招商我們還在努力來看廠商的意願那我們現在也提出了配套的措施希望能在"},{"start":17585.565,"end":17591.05,"text":"廠商投資的意願上面讓他降低更多的成本然後讓這年輕人可以讓他有機會"},{"start":17603.659,"end":17631.185,"text":"對 目前評估是626應該是廠商投標的可能性所以 其實董事長你剛來所以也要讓董事長知道一下我封山車災已經處理了三次了這是第三次了那如果沒有一個不一樣的做法我如果變文字館不是只有台鐵協議而已 我也協議所以我想務必要有一個好的解方所以"},{"start":17632.813,"end":17656.998,"text":"前幾天總經理到我那邊去他說他想改用分期分區的方案這個內部你們在研究然後我建議的是1加1的方案那當然就是說我是怕你今天用分期分區飆不出去以後你的1加1又來不及那我鳳山車站就不知道要看什麼看多久"},{"start":17659.449,"end":17665.478,"text":"所以我想總經理你那一天的承諾是不是公開跟大家報告一下你打算怎麼做"},{"start":17666.789,"end":17690.63,"text":"報告委員現在因為我們有詢問過促參司的相關的意見那一天有跟委員報告我們目前還是評估以分期分區對於鳳山車站整體未來的開發的進程是最有幫助的所以我們現在目前第一階段第二階段把這個時程跟大家報告一下也讓董事長知道一下也讓社會知道一下這樣就可以"},{"start":17691.03,"end":17713.311,"text":"好 我們預計分期分區如果這一次6月26號的第三次招商還是沒有結果的話我們就馬上展開分期分區那預計整個作業時程到9月底我們可以來做一個決標那我們期待在這個過程中我們也會再持續跟廠商來做一個研議讓這個廠商的持續更明確9月底然後呢"},{"start":17717.506,"end":17744.57,"text":"那九月底這邊如果這個針對分期分區的方案如果到那時候還廠商還沒有意願的話我們會按照這個委員的一個意見我們也來做一個研議評估來1加1的這個方案我們也會來評估不過這個部分也跟委員有說明過了我們也會參考處參司相關的意見來怎麼樣當然啦 該是合法的程序處理就是合法處理啊"},{"start":17745.291,"end":17758.525,"text":"所以跟董事長報告一下希望董事長跟部長也能夠稍微注意一下這個訊息這是總經理當我們大家的面承諾的那就是說今天已經標了三次沒標出去"},{"start":17759.548,"end":17787.131,"text":"坦白講我是覺得有點傷心啦那當然這個是我想大家要議的事情我們一定要把它完成所以現在我再重複一遍就是說分期分期是台鐵自己的意見1加1是我的意見但是台鐵說分期分期9月底之前有機會可以標的出去那我們再信任台鐵一次如果在9月底之前分期分期沒有完成"},{"start":17788.123,"end":17812.481,"text":"那就希望說用一加一的方式那一加一的方式事實上我也曾經提過台北車站跟鳳山車站 你在台北車頭一定賺錢的啦你來萬福山車頭 比較辛苦的付出擔保啊把我們慢慢的先把這個體質收起做好後面我相信一定會賺錢的嘛只是初期會比較辛苦嘛"},{"start":17813.069,"end":17835.972,"text":"那你今天如果台北車站跟高雄車站跟鳳山車站我們一加一的話我相信絕對不會處理 你用什麼啦那當然需要經過出產師相關的合法合理的程序那個當然我們就一切照規定來啊所以我現在在這邊也很明確的要求就是說第一個626就在明天顯然是"},{"start":17837.418,"end":17862.615,"text":"可能沒有機會了啦 那我們已經是第三次了啦再來九月底這個時間我們照台鐵的建議分區分區 我這樣算 北東也很誇嘛對不對只要你我都完成 你的風水水的不是我想像中最理想的那是製造還有機會完成所以分區分區這個部分 那我們也定一個時間總經理也很清楚說 三個月"},{"start":17863.796,"end":17880.503,"text":"所以626到9月底正好三個月希望說這一個案子可以照你們現在已經我知道其實總經理也努力也努力的去尋覓潛在廠商也問了很多人他也一直在努力這一點我們也必須肯定雖然"},{"start":17882.083,"end":17904.77,"text":"結果不如我預期 但是我們也先 也就是說我知道總經理很努力啦所以第二階段就是這個9月底的時間這個時間我希望說董事長跟部長也能夠幫忙注意這個時間如果有順利招標出去那當然我們就先趕快讓它初步的完成 然後趕快讓它先營運那這個是9月底的時間"},{"start":17906.107,"end":17929.701,"text":"那如果9月底的時間在沒有結果那我在這邊希望董事長跟部長跟總經理一加一就不要再閃東閃西 蔣東蔣西了就希望說你把台北車站跟我風山車站一起我相信這樣子是100%飆得出去啦台北車站的頭很燦爛 沒人要飆啦"},{"start":17932.574,"end":17947.764,"text":"所以一加一是一定飆得出去啦所以我在這邊就是強烈的要求鄭重的宣示那董事長跟總經理是不是也OK我們朝著方向來努力所以OK啦"},{"start":17950.629,"end":17980.149,"text":"就是說如果九月底不行的話我們九月底之前我們是分區分區那到九月底不行的話那我們就採取這個一加一的方式但是這個一加一的方式我們現在趕快要跟促參市那能夠每一天我已經跟總經理跟促參市研究過了照法照規定處理照規定你放心我不會叫你不照規定處理照規定照法處理你放心這樣好不好是那個部長可不可以上來講一下說好就好"},{"start":17987.102,"end":18008.442,"text":"報告委員如果是依法而且可行的話我們當然朝這個方向做OK就是剛才我都講了三個時間點626第一個時針點眼看沒有機會930第二個時針點希望能夠有機會完成如果沒有完成的話第三個時針點就是1加1的方式這樣子處理好不好是OK你們三位都OK我想就不會再跳票了好OK好謝謝"},{"start":18011.89,"end":18034.036,"text":"好謝謝喜智傑召委的執行黃珊珊委員黃珊珊委員黃珊珊委員不在林柱英委員林柱英委員林柱英委員不在習新穎委員習新穎委員習新穎委員不在現在請葉延之委員執行"},{"start":18047.056,"end":18048.562,"text":"我們請台鐵的董事長台鐵鄭董事長"},{"start":18061.411,"end":18087.879,"text":"葉委員好 董事長您好我們知道台鐵其實很多員工都非常辛苦然後大家也都非常感謝台鐵對大家的服務但是您的上任大家都很期待您是交通大學運輸研究所的博士是這方面的專業過去在交通界也服務很久所以希望說台鐵有一些問題可以幫忙協助然後讓台鐵越來越好"},{"start":18088.999,"end":18116.712,"text":"那特別是我覺得交通的安全的部分因為我一直常常在新聞上面看到很多有關於台鐵的一些安全的狀況譬如說我們看一下最近台鐵船散爆洗車沒有取接地桿量貨然後另外還有一個是在庫房發生的常常會發生吊車意外這個吊車意外在今年的頻率非常高大概七個月就發生了八起"},{"start":18117.632,"end":18142.563,"text":"那我不曉得說董事長您到台鐵之後會怎麼樣來處理這個問題那我有看到說你有拜訪台鐵的工會嘛工會有跟你反應說可能是不是人員的流動率比較高然後造成基層的工作負荷比較大所以才會是不是也有因為這樣的關係所以引起了一些類似的意外發生所以董事長你怎麼看"},{"start":18143.317,"end":18165.479,"text":"是跟委員報告這個事情尤其吊車場的事情我昨天也特別到七堵吊車場去對於七堵連續發生了六七次的吊車事件還有我們樹林發生的吊車事件整個做了一個了解也聽取他們的報告當然這裡面最主要就是沒有按照SOP"},{"start":18166.339,"end":18192.268,"text":"那沒有按照SOP裡面當然就是這個當事人還有他的主管這個都有問題那就是沒有當責那當然這其中裡面也有一個情況就是說為什麼他沒有辦法說譬如說他應該要守候這個車子在前面要有人然後要才能夠做這個動作吊車的動作但是他前面這邊坐完了"},{"start":18192.988,"end":18215.06,"text":"馬上又有一個車子要掉路了他急著趕過去所以就造成了他沒有站著SOP這個又是牽涉到人力的問題這個就是說他這個人力造成他的這個他沒有辦法讓他很充分的時間來執行SOP那這個都是其中的原因所以我在這邊的話就是說針對"},{"start":18218.55,"end":18222.518,"text":"這些所有的事件其實我們的數字統計我們整個疫場的事件的話去年我們總共發生了979件大小"},{"start":18229.144,"end":18254.373,"text":"重大事故一般事故一般的異常總而言之我現在的想法就是說一定要把這些問題都讓他釐清所以我現在就做成是說希望去年的這個每一件事情的原因在哪裡那麼我們要有能夠把他找出來所以現在要分區分則那麼怎麼樣把譬如說我們北中南區東那麼這些區的這個處長他一定要把他"},{"start":18256.976,"end":18260.59,"text":"謝謝 因為我們這個時間有限所以剛剛講到人力的部分你有什麼計畫可以補強嗎"},{"start":18264.479,"end":18290.125,"text":"這個部分的話第一個我希望說在招募的時候能不能夠按照分區來招募因為目前過去的時候所以你有一個計畫人力的部分就補強了所以人力的部分是可以這個問題把它解決第二個是你剛剛說SOP怎麼把它落實這個部分你也會去那只要SOP有落實人力部分也沒有問題的話應該類似的意外就會減少"},{"start":18291.085,"end":18314.122,"text":"當然 那最後我跟您董事長提醒一個這也是有一些網友來反映就是因為台鐵之前在2019年的時候有一個APP叫台鐵一定通當時我們的了解是花了一千萬左右去做這個APP一千萬的APP價格不能說很低啦其實一般的APP有時候一百萬到三百萬就可以做得到但是它花了一千萬"},{"start":18315.103,"end":18334.342,"text":"然後到今年才推出線上換票跟一機多票其實這個服務我覺得到今年才推出來是有點慢的就是有些人他可能自己訂票但他要幫家人訂就沒辦法只能訂自己的變成說每一個人都要用自己的手機訂票那今年才推出一機多票但不管怎麼樣也是推出了啦是"},{"start":18334.642,"end":18354.834,"text":"那一年 當初是花一千萬建置後來每一年花兩百萬來維護這是一個非常高成本的APP我們希望它讓大家用得很舒適 很友善不過在這個網路上包括我們也有接到一些陳情就有很多問題這個您就去了解一下我相信你可能需要資訊資訊處的人才知道啦譬如說"},{"start":18356.989,"end":18380.96,"text":"常常有人抱怨說沒辦法下載沒辦法使用這是其中一個問題第二個比較嚴重的問題我助理也有實際去操作過就是說他訂完票通常要先收到一個驗證碼才能確定說是不是你本人訂的可是常常收不到驗證碼收不到驗證碼這個訂票過程就等於是白白浪費時間了然後也沒辦法完成訂票所以這也是一個問題"},{"start":18382.02,"end":18407.536,"text":"那後面還有其他其他的問題就是如果他他註冊然後發送信箱之後又常常說沒有這個會員然後忘記密碼又找不到帳號系統又崩潰這個都是截圖你可以看一下我是先不用回答但是我建議你們是不是去看一下那個網路上大家的回饋然後針對大家的回饋一一去了解問題是發生在哪裡然後把這個問題解決"},{"start":18408.786,"end":18426.641,"text":"否則弄一個APP也花那麼大的心思然後也宣傳了 也叫大家下載了但是面對到一堆問題 這會有民怨好不好 而且也沒有辦法達到訂票的目的好不好 這個請董事長來幫忙處理一下是的 我們來瞭解真正的原因好 謝謝"},{"start":18429.056,"end":18446.929,"text":"好 謝謝葉言之委員的執行張家俊委員 張家俊委員 張家俊委員不在楊瓊英委員 楊瓊英委員 楊瓊英委員不在游皓委員 游皓委員 游皓委員不在"},{"start":18448.826,"end":18470.636,"text":"現在登記執行委員經已發言完畢 做以下的決定一 報告及詢答完畢二 尤浩委員 楊瓊英委員 邱振軍委員 廖先祥委員首提書面執行列入紀錄並刊登公報"},{"start":18471.636,"end":18487.634,"text":"三 委員的執行中要求提供相關書面的資料或未及時答覆部分請交通部及相關機關盡速以書面答覆特別台灣"},{"start":18489.707,"end":18506.565,"text":"那個台鐵公司答應委員的下班以前提供的資料特別一定要去準時送達那本日會議結束特別謝謝交通部陳部長以及"},{"start":18508.507,"end":18523.594,"text":"台鐵鄭董事長 高鐵石澤董事長所以在這裡還特別謝謝我們所有媒體朋友的堅持到現在謝謝大家 今天會議結束 謝謝"},{"start":18532.966,"end":18532.986,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":18562.025,"end":18562.127,"text":"謝謝大家"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}