{"error":false,"id":["167825"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167825,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167825","日期":"2026-03-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-03-25T09:09:48+08:00","結束時間":"2026-03-25T09:24:18+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:30","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/755992caaad3baae9836ccafc9d3eab49e5efe6b22224a4dfd4d311afd6111d39cea193b8358d2b45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:09:48 - 09:24:18","會議時間":"2026-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n【3月25日及26日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":0.06471875,"end":1.80284375,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":6.19034375,"end":7.995968750000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":8.434718750000002,"end":9.632843750000003,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":12.113468750000003,"end":12.704093750000002,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":12.822218750000001,"end":29.562218750000003,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":29.612843750000003,"end":34.18596875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":34.89471875,"end":39.704093750000006,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":39.73784375,"end":40.22721875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":40.446593750000005,"end":65.86034375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":66.63659375,"end":69.52221875000001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":69.43784375,"end":69.97784375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":69.89346875000001,"end":73.43721875,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":72.94784375,"end":73.87596875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":74.98971875000001,"end":76.25534375000001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":75.73221875,"end":78.82034375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":78.82034375,"end":79.02284375,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":80.10284375,"end":83.03909375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":84.35534375,"end":89.29971875000001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":90.21096875,"end":96.43784375,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":95.99909375,"end":97.99034375000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":97.65284375,"end":99.05346875000001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":99.27284375,"end":100.99409375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":101.71971875000001,"end":111.33846875,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":105.53346875000001,"end":105.83721875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":106.56284375000001,"end":108.52034375000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":110.47784375,"end":114.83159375000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":113.88659375,"end":116.29971875000001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":115.91159375000001,"end":117.93659375000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":117.93659375000001,"end":120.02909375,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":120.46784375000001,"end":123.50534375000001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":124.18034375,"end":180.20534375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":124.23096875,"end":124.92284375000001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":180.20534375,"end":182.06159375000001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":181.08284375000002,"end":181.89284375000003,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":182.06159375000001,"end":230.12159375000002,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":230.50971875000002,"end":276.62909375000004,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":276.56159375000004,"end":277.79346875000005,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":277.86096875000004,"end":281.10096875,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":278.77221875000004,"end":279.48096875000005,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":280.12221875,"end":283.76721875000004,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":284.15534375000004,"end":284.56034375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":284.56034375,"end":293.09909375,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":292.06971875,"end":297.57096875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":297.94221875,"end":305.26596875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":301.89096875,"end":304.69221875,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":304.72596875,"end":314.10846875000004,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":308.52284375,"end":308.94471875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":309.11346875000004,"end":309.55221875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":313.50096875,"end":323.96346875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":319.66034375000004,"end":325.11096875000004,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":324.92534375,"end":371.75346875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":372.61409375000005,"end":373.40721875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":373.40721875,"end":432.73971875,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":433.63409375000003,"end":434.73096875000005,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":435.45659375,"end":436.92471875,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":437.34659375,"end":444.65346875,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":444.83909375,"end":459.75659375000004,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":449.85096875000005,"end":450.37409375000004,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":450.66096875000005,"end":452.21346875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":458.74409375000005,"end":473.35784375000003,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":473.81346875,"end":515.7140937500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":515.91659375,"end":540.9422187499999,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":540.9422187499999,"end":547.9284687500001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":548.26596875,"end":586.15034375,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":551.1853437500001,"end":553.63221875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":554.07096875,"end":554.5265937500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":554.88096875,"end":555.89346875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":570.20346875,"end":571.38471875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":574.2365937500001,"end":575.6372187500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":578.55659375,"end":579.8559687500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":580.19346875,"end":582.8090937500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":583.3828437500001,"end":583.88909375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":585.0534687500001,"end":585.42471875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":586.15034375,"end":653.9540937500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":654.89909375,"end":656.55284375,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":656.72159375,"end":660.40034375,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":660.4340937500001,"end":672.1284687500001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":671.1159687500001,"end":679.24971875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":677.79846875,"end":680.93721875,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":679.33409375,"end":679.38471875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":679.4184687500001,"end":732.9797187500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":733.48596875,"end":755.13659375,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":734.3803437500001,"end":735.20721875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":739.98284375,"end":741.2822187500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":749.3315937500001,"end":749.7703437499999,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":751.8628437500001,"end":753.73596875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":754.6472187500001,"end":759.37221875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":759.6928437500001,"end":761.2622187500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":761.88659375,"end":762.8315937500001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":763.32096875,"end":765.02534375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":765.9365937500002,"end":770.1215937500001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":765.97034375,"end":767.0165937500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":769.66596875,"end":770.9822187500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":771.01596875,"end":771.4209687500002,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":771.4040937500001,"end":772.46721875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":772.8047187500001,"end":776.70284375,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":777.0234687500001,"end":778.93034375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":779.04846875,"end":780.49971875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":780.7022187500002,"end":790.5403437500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":790.5234687500001,"end":795.06284375,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":790.97909375,"end":793.7465937500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":795.26534375,"end":800.71596875,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":799.56846875,"end":846.9365937500002,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":847.7465937500001,"end":848.08409375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":850.1259687500001,"end":856.79159375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":854.3447187500001,"end":858.8503437500001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":857.8715937500001,"end":863.45721875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":859.5422187500001,"end":861.5165937500001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":862.17471875,"end":868.8572187500001,"speaker_score":0.74},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":863.5078437500001,"end":865.00971875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":866.2078437500002,"end":866.8997187500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":868.48596875,"end":870.57846875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"白署長捷隆","start":870.2578437500001,"end":871.9622187500001,"speaker_score":0.74}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.249,"end":1.511,"text":"委員來 敬請發言謝謝主席 有請任市長請任市長委員長"},{"start":13.018,"end":31.017,"text":"人事長早有很長一段時間公務員是台灣人都想擠破頭搶非常搶手的工作大概是因為這個工資還有這個福利還不錯那整個情況也都會就業情況非常的穩定那所以才會被稱為是鐵飯碗但是人事長"},{"start":35.341,"end":61.682,"text":"現在我們來回顧報考人數你看看這個投影片上這張圖它下降的速度當然沒有台灣的人口生育數這個下降的那麼陡可是看起來那個趨勢已成2010年有53萬人來報考公務員但是這個是考試院到目前為止只有的資料2023年只剩下19萬當時大概就比起之前不到三成六林市長請問這兩年呢"},{"start":63.443,"end":87.029,"text":"這兩年是不是持續往下走呢大概持平啦 坦白講持平嗎政府基本上我們提供一個有數字嗎因為這個曲線是往下走 走了好多年聽說去年呢 2025年是多少人來報考呢我們手上拿到考選部統計資料"},{"start":90.35,"end":100.887,"text":"上一年是從八萬六降到五萬七大概降的快...你是說報到嗎?沒有報考,報考人數報考人數剩五萬多"},{"start":102.075,"end":119.134,"text":"就是高普考因為我們還有很多的考試初等還有特考我們有因為這個是考試院提供的因為他是identify在高考跟普考考試院的定義當然就是說如果有考試院直接的定義他的涵蓋面會比較廣聽起來還是很覺得驚心膽魄他是有為"},{"start":120.99,"end":134.768,"text":"竹簾下滑可是沒有做這樣市長您覺得是有穩定下來是不是有止滑是不是那其實公務員當然是維持整個政府運作非常重要的螺絲釘啦如果說公務員這個短缺的話"},{"start":135.649,"end":151.943,"text":"就是代表說優秀人才他不願意或不選擇到政府機關來工作那這樣是會應該是會大大影響政府這個體系的運作效能那林市長如果我們對比一下公司部門的這個薪資我就以這個工程科類跟資訊處理類為例"},{"start":154.605,"end":165.952,"text":"工職不只是起薪比較低那整個薪水漲幅的這個級距也不如民間我們來比較這個OECD國家OECD國家大概有30個啦那這裡大概有幾個重要代表國家台灣公務員的人事費的比率是倒數第二名大概佔不到GDP的6%那個林市長你有掌握這樣的資訊嗎我有掌握到"},{"start":182.481,"end":198.48,"text":"那大學剛畢業的新人他覺得公務員並不被政府注重重視那薪水漲幅當然失去優勢可是過去我了解對於公務員他們最大的吸引力不在於說起薪要多高而是說他可以有預期的回報那現在他們變成預期的沒回報"},{"start":202.524,"end":229.873,"text":"大概他們心態是這樣 導致心血也不加入然後再指的想離職 那留下來的人因為他工作量越來越大所以更加速了這個離職率 陷入惡性循環那外界有聲音表示公務員的新典制度或是所謂的新典折合率應該要重新檢討 讓公務員的這個薪資可以跟得上民間請問任市長您是否會支持或推動類似的改革"},{"start":231.281,"end":246.898,"text":"我利用這個機會跟委員報告一下,事實上這個新制代議的部分除了每年調代審議委員會之外,我們有對整個專業家計表在討論大概今年應該六月底以前"},{"start":247.538,"end":276.042,"text":"我們會做一個比較大幅度的一個調整然後會跟行政院報告 取得行政院的支持那陳如委員提的一些問題 事實上我們也很積極的來面對可是這個專業假期表因為牽涉到幾十萬公務人員 他不同的專長他的待遇的調整的部分 遷移法動前身這個部分我們 菸澤商會在六月底前會把整個調整的方案"},{"start":276.602,"end":296.9,"text":"送到行政院嗎會送到行政院因為要請了行政院的一個質詢那您預期多久可能送到立法院來做審查這是我們行政院內部在內部處理好大概會做一些公告的程序啦市長因為我剛剛聽到雖然我不知道基礎一不一樣因為我沒有最新的資料您說現在"},{"start":298.041,"end":312.177,"text":"公務員就是說報考什麼的報到只有五、六萬人這個嚇死人高普考因為考試的項目坦白講我剛才報告了有高考、普考、特考還有各式還有那個初等考試"},{"start":313.758,"end":322.922,"text":"這樣好不好 任市長我就用同一個基礎算法定義的方式我想看一下這更新的部分我們再跟考選部要好了我們跟考選部要提供給委員那我再請任市長看一下這張圖這張圖是另外一個指標叫公務員的缺額率這個紅色的是中央政府那藍色的是地方政府但是你可以看到缺額率都是在往上走那以中央政府來說2025年就去年了這就夠新了"},{"start":341.989,"end":351.415,"text":"去年大概就是整個全部總的來看大概是85.7%就是他缺了十幾個%那中央的部分是86.5%但是地方是大概85.3%簡單的說100人可以完成的工作假設我們認定這個原額都是合理的現在只剩下不到86個人在工作我想請教任市長你會不會擔心公務體系會崩盤然後您自己認為耐受門檻"},{"start":372.789,"end":390.238,"text":"大概是多少我覺得委員這個問題非常的棒事實上我們一直在思考因為出生率低然後報考的然後而且一個很重要的目前整個市場的景氣蠻好的譬如像高科技的譬如像土木的所以我們"},{"start":391.278,"end":409.621,"text":"光幾個土木工程來講土木工程本來是缺額最多後來我們就透過政治專業家籍每個月給他三千還有他留任的一三五年都給他不同的金額還有那個工程獎金的部分把這些人拉上來"},{"start":410.182,"end":432.614,"text":"不過有一個事實我必須要跟委員報告政府不管再加多少錢我們不可能跟民間一模一樣因為當他這個景氣好的時候政府可以offer的價錢坦白講跟民間還是會有一點落差所以我們也在職場的友善各方面我們去做一些努力另外還有一個必須要跟委員報告的"},{"start":433.703,"end":453.043,"text":"就是因為80幾%的人要做原來100個人的事情所以我們第一個是檢討哪些事情可以不要做第二個檢討哪些事情可以透過流程簡化的方式或者引入人工智慧 減少人力"},{"start":454.204,"end":458.549,"text":"我也希望說所有的公務人員 尤其是都遵守最下巴"},{"start":473.906,"end":497.792,"text":"人事長你看公務員缺額持續攀升那會有各種抱怨例如行政院秘書長張敦涵他就要求教撒等照三章回報輿情導致某一些在職的公務員他還要身兼社群小編大清朝起來要分類要收集輿情增加的工作量當然行政院說回應或了解掌握輿情是很重要的這個沒有人否認"},{"start":498.852,"end":509.003,"text":"但是因為在缺額的逐漸這個加重的情況之下這個額外的工作還是會讓在職人員抱怨那另外 女士長我還是請你不要忘記前年爆發的就前年發生的這個整個公務門體系的這個霸凌案是連連爆"},{"start":516.75,"end":536.322,"text":"而且官官相護 如今證明勞動部部份已經交由司法處理衛福部的部份 當時我也奪利很多衛福部部份 監察院糾正案也都成立了所以這些都不是個案 是整個公務體系整個公務體系整體的 除了薪資福利 整個公務體系我們覺得是走向瀕臨崩潰化的一些前兆我跟委員報告 我是比較樂觀"},{"start":544.147,"end":571.38,"text":"你比較樂觀我是比較樂觀因為我如果被關我就沒有站在這裡講話的一個疑惑因為只有樂觀才能夠帶領所有公務人員往前衝所以剛才委員提到一個問題早上要去整理這一些新聞災藥我們現在也訓練同仁透過人工智慧又透過類似直接去網路爬書然後再去做查證可以把整個作業時間可以縮短"},{"start":573.061,"end":591.582,"text":"事實上新公職的學習很重要不會做一件事你要用時期時代的做法他有可能要點眼睛我用新的有可能15分鐘就做完了好 林市長那我想跟你談一下公職受益的事情讓你更加了解公職人力一旦流失對社會的影響"},{"start":592.523,"end":610.732,"text":"公職授醫背負著動物健康食品安全還有公共衛生的這個責任但是去年我們爆發了這個非洲豬瘟的時候我們就看到公職授醫大概沒有辦法無能為力為什麼人力實在不足啦那雖然公職授醫過去那個起薪尚可但實際上還是跟民間差很大加上業務範圍很廣因為他又要這個"},{"start":616.234,"end":623.819,"text":"動物保 動保跟防疫 責任重拜託 主席再給我幾分鐘 謝謝你讓我認真準備的東西可以跟人事長討論一下那當然你這個現象等於變相鼓勵這個獸醫就往民間 讓他換寶刀我知道農業部有爭取 你剛剛有提到這個不開業獎金 提到其他是專業家計但是也有人說 這個新人必須整整撐住一整年"},{"start":640.268,"end":653.805,"text":"才能領到一到三萬的這個獎金所以有人說這個獎金未必留得住人才當然任市長我就這個公職授意來看當然這不是單一農業部可以承擔的問題那你有沒有任何想法呢"},{"start":654.983,"end":671.243,"text":"其實我覺得委員你那些信息就是說我們只要針對他有受益執照的不開業的,他是一個月都給一萬到三萬,不可以再等一年所以他的錢你如果說比較資深的符合哪一個階級以上的,錢你就可以省下來"},{"start":671.664,"end":674.326,"text":"人事長我們就繼續觀看因為非洲豬運讓我們知道獸醫公職獸醫是非常重要這點我也很重視謝謝人事長人事長請你再看這個圖這個圖是前高雄市議員是曾經在當任基層公務員的林于凱跟我談因為有不少公務員在他在服務這個議員的時間向他反映讓我非常驚訝我先來請教這個人事長"},{"start":696.766,"end":700.709,"text":"現在有三務公務員想要彼此商調到對方單位A本來在台北市政府任職B是在台中市政府 C是在高雄市政府那我們現在先假設他們都是社會局員工好了B想要到台北社會局必須等到台北社會局開缺出來A要到高雄也是要等到高雄市政府開缺出來C要到台中也是一樣"},{"start":720.481,"end":732.759,"text":"那當然這個就是等他對方政府都開缺出來然後這邊同意放人那他們才能去報到我認為當然這個程序都不能免但是我請教任市長您覺得這個過程要多久"},{"start":733.653,"end":761.147,"text":"我跟委員說 你看這樣多久我們目前 我們是有一個市球人 但是委員你說的那個我們是一個平台 就是我們會建一個平台年底以前會好就是你說的那個 大家先來一個平台去找就對了就看哪裡有缺 大家互相資訊的透明化會比以前更我還在想說 您心中合理的這個商標完成的時間是多少您覺得合理比較多少"},{"start":761.903,"end":764.547,"text":"越緊越好啊你知道最美的這個多久了嗎看那個有開嗎 你如果說消洪的他們是商調咧 同職商調商調一般我們的基調是不可以我請各位"},{"start":777.056,"end":791.508,"text":"拜託耶 這件三年啦我找資料給你好了 三年喔我正要問你 我就是等你這個答案喔你認為三個月可以辦完 但是這個案子是三年完成啊三年很漫長啊 我們用人生來看三年很短但從職業生涯來看 三年就等了"},{"start":795.531,"end":798.754,"text":"最後一個建議啦我認為這個是教育體系教師體系他們已經有所謂的教師借聘他縣市的服務我知道你剛剛也有提到想要這樣做那後面往上是官方建立這很重要官方建立他希望加速整個商調的速度"},{"start":816.65,"end":823.014,"text":"那類似的做法在公務體系如果我沒有錯的話現在只有警察跟消防有跟進我認為人事行政總署可以參考教育部建立這個系統先試辦同性質的公務員相調例如一條邊人事一條邊人事公務員政風一條邊政風公務員還有審計一條邊審計公務員"},{"start":835.882,"end":845.636,"text":"同質的我們是不是先盡快改善那不同性質我知道要克服很多問題需要多一點時間所以人事審計跟政風的這個商調是否可以優先來示範"},{"start":850.806,"end":858.793,"text":"因為這個每個人遷居啦 結婚啦 或照顧老小難免要需要相調好 謝謝陳昭智 讓我講話了好 謝謝陳昭智 我很想讓你再多說一句我今天在這裡對好人很抱歉下次你多說兩點再跟你說好不好謝謝主委 謝謝任市長來 我們議事錄"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:09:48.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:09:49.371000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請人事長。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T09:09:49.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:09:49.491000+08:00","text":"請人事長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:09:49.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:09:49.511000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:10:01.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:10:01.519000+08:00","text":"人事長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:10:01.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:10:18.937000+08:00","text":"有很長的一段時間，公務員是臺灣人人都想擠破頭……非常搶手的工作，大概是因為工資與福利還不錯，整個就業情況非常穩定，所以才會被稱為鐵飯碗。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:10:18.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:10:49.662000+08:00","text":"但是人事長，現在我們來回顧報考人數，你看看這個投影片上這張圖，報考人數下降的速度雖然沒有臺灣人口出生數下降地那麼陡，可是看起來趨勢已成，2010年有53萬人報考公務員，這是考試院到目前為止有的資料，2023年只剩下19萬人，比起之前不到三成六，人事長，請問這兩年呢？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:10:51.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:10:53.644000+08:00","text":"這兩年是不是持續往下走呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:10:54.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:10:56.984000+08:00","text":"大概持平，坦白講……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:10:56.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:10:58.785000+08:00","text":"持平嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:10:58.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:01.205000+08:00","text":"政府基本上提供一個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:01.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:03.806000+08:00","text":"有數字嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:03.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:10.667000+08:00","text":"因為這個曲線是往下走，走了好多年，去（2025）年有多少人報考？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:12.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:23.378000+08:00","text":"我們手上拿到考選部的統計資料，上一年是從8萬6降到5萬7，大概降了快……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:24.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:25.622000+08:00","text":"你是指報到嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:26.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:27.565000+08:00","text":"報考人數。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:27.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:28.867000+08:00","text":"報考人數剩五萬多？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:30.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:34.260000+08:00","text":"這是高普考，我們還有很多考試，如初等、特考，我們有各式各類的考試。","quality":0.679},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:35.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:35.822000+08:00","text":"這個是考試院提供的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:35.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:39.125000+08:00","text":"因為它是identify在高考和普考的部分。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:39.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:42.228000+08:00","text":"當然，如果由考試院直接定義是更好比較。","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:42.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:44.030000+08:00","text":"它的涵蓋面會比較廣。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:44.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:45.672000+08:00","text":"不過聽起來還是覺得很心驚膽顫。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:46.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:51.192000+08:00","text":"它是有逐年下滑，可是沒有驟降。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:52.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:11:55.258000+08:00","text":"人事長，你覺得有穩定下來、有止滑，是不是？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:11:56.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:12:13.217000+08:00","text":"其實公務員是維持整個政府運作非常重要的螺絲釘，如果公務員短缺的話，就代表優秀人才不願意或不選擇到政府機關工作，這樣應該會大大影響政府體系的運作效能。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:12:15.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:12:33.852000+08:00","text":"人事長，如果我們對比一下公私部門的薪資，以工程科類及資訊處理類為例，公職不只是起薪比較低，整個薪水漲幅的級距也不如民間，如與OECD國家比較，OECD國家大概有30個，其中有幾個重要的代表國家，臺灣公務員人事費比例是倒數第二名，大概占不到GDP的6%，人事長，你有掌握這樣的資訊嗎？","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:12:33.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:12:33.932000+08:00","text":"我有掌握到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:12:50.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:13:23.608000+08:00","text":"大學剛畢業的新鮮人覺得公務員不被政府重視，薪水漲幅也失去優勢，可是就我了解，過去公務員對於他們最大的吸引力，不在於起薪多高，而是可以有預期的回報，現在變成是預期的沒回報，他們的心態大概是這樣，導致新血不加入，在職的想離職，留下來的人因為工作量越來越大，所以更加速了離職率，陷入惡性循環。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:13:23.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:13:37.853000+08:00","text":"外界有聲音表示公務員的薪點制度或是薪點折合率應該要重新檢討，讓公務員的薪資可以跟得上民間，請問人事長，你是否會支持或推動類似的改革？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:13:39.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:14:02.544000+08:00","text":"我利用這個機會跟委員報告，事實上，關於薪資待遇的部分，除了每年調待審議委員會之外，我們有針對整個專業加給表在進行討論，大概今年6月底以前，我們會做比較大幅度的調整，會跟行政院報告，取得行政院的支持。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:14:03.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:14:24.022000+08:00","text":"誠如委員提出的一些問題，事實上，我們也很積極面對，可是因為專業加給表牽涉到幾十萬公務人員不同的專長，待遇調整的部分牽一髮而動全身，這部分我們原則上會在6月底以前把整個調整的方案提出來。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:14:24.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:14:26.304000+08:00","text":"會送到行政院嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:14:26.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:14:28.506000+08:00","text":"會送到行政院，因為要取得行政院的支持。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:14:29.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:14:33.150000+08:00","text":"你預期多久可以送到立法院來審查？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:14:33.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:14:40.076000+08:00","text":"行政院內部處理好，大概會做一些公告的程序。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:14:41.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:14:51.327000+08:00","text":"人事長，雖然我不知道基礎一不一樣，因為我沒有最新的資料，我剛剛聽到你說現在公務員的報考人數只有5、6萬人，嚇死人了！","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:14:52.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:15:00.177000+08:00","text":"沒有，高普考的部分，我剛才報告過了，考試項目有高考、普考、特考，還有初等考試等各式各樣的考試。","quality":0.575},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:15:01.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:15:07.581000+08:00","text":"人事長，這樣好不好，就用同一個基礎算法定義的方式，我想看一下更新的部分，因為我手邊只有考試院的資料，到2023年……","quality":0.617},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:15:07.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:15:08.361000+08:00","text":"我們再跟考選部索取資料提供給委員。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:15:08.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:15:39.015000+08:00","text":"我再請人事長看一下這張圖，這張圖是另外一個指標「公務員缺額率」，紅色的是中央政府，藍色的是地方政府，但是可以看到缺額率都是在往上走，以中央政府來說，2025年也就是去年，這就夠新了，去年全部總的來看大概是85.7%，缺了十幾個%，中央部分是86.5%，地方大概85.3%，簡單說，100人可以完成的工作，假設我們認定這個員額都是合理的，現在只剩下不到86人在工作，我想請教人事長，你會不會擔心公務體系崩盤？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:15:39.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:16:01.350000+08:00","text":"你認為耐受門檻大概是多少？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:16:01.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:16:37.621000+08:00","text":"我覺得委員這個問題非常棒，事實上，我們也一直在思考，因為出生率低、報考人數的問題，而且很重要的是目前整個市場景氣滿好的，譬如高科技、土木，所以光以土木工程來講，土木工程本來是缺額最多的，後來我們透過增加專業加給每個月3,000元，還有留任1、3、5年都有不同的金額，以及工程獎金的部分，把這些人拉上來。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:16:38.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:16:58.012000+08:00","text":"不過有一個事實我必須要跟委員報告，政府不管再加多少錢，我們不可能跟民間一模一樣，因為當景氣好的時候，坦白講，政府可以offer的價錢跟民間還是會有一點落差，所以我們也在職場友善各方面去做一些努力。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:16:58.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:17:12.214000+08:00","text":"另外，還有一個必須要跟委員報告的是，因為八十幾%的人要做原來100人的事情，所以第一個我們檢討哪些事情可以不要做。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:17:12.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:17:26.349000+08:00","text":"第二個，檢討哪些事情可以透過流程簡化的方式，或者引入人工智慧減少人力，因為我也希望所有的公務人員盡量都準時上下班。","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:17:26.349000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:17:42.726000+08:00","text":"謝謝人事長，你有注意就好，因為這個趨勢是往下走，缺額率是在提高，這就足以要趕快去應對，等一下我會跟你討論其中的一些制度，包括商調，稍後我會跟你談商調的效率。","quality":0.057},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:17:42.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:18:13.139000+08:00","text":"人事長，公務員缺額持續攀升就會有各種抱怨，例如，行政院秘書長張惇涵就要求照三餐回報輿情，導致某一些在職的公務員還要身兼社群小編，大清早起床要分類和蒐集輿情，增加工作量，當然行政院說回應或了解、掌握輿情是很重要的，這個沒有人否認，但是在缺額逐漸增加的情況之下，額外的工作還是會讓在職人員抱怨。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:18:14.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:18:43.022000+08:00","text":"另外，人事長，我還是要請你不要忘記前年爆發的事情，前年整個公務部門體系的霸凌案連連爆，而且官官相護，如今證明勞動部的部分已經交由司法處理，衛福部的部分當時我也著力很多，衛福部的部分監察院的糾正案也都成立了，所以這些都不是個案，是整個公務體系，除了薪資、福利之外，我們覺得整個公務體系是走向瀕臨崩潰化的一些前兆。","quality":0.817},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:18:43.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:18:44.322000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我是比較樂觀。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:18:52.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:18:52.927000+08:00","text":"你比較樂觀喔？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:18:52.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:18:57.710000+08:00","text":"我是比較樂觀，因為我如果悲觀，我就沒有站在這裡講話的餘地。對啦！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:18:57.710000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:18:59.451000+08:00","text":"你是應該樂觀地去做，但是事實上……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:18:59.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:19:23.904000+08:00","text":"只有樂觀才能夠帶領所有的公務人員往前衝，所以剛才委員提到一個問題，早上要去整理這一些新聞摘要，我們現在也訓練同仁透過人工智慧，透過ChatGPT、Gemini直接去網路爬梳，然後再去做查證，可以把整個作業時間縮短，事實上，新工具的學習很重要。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:19:23.904000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:19:24.904000+08:00","text":"工作效率提高，人事長，我也同意，工作的樣態會越來越多。","quality":0.043},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:19:24.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:19:33.756000+08:00","text":"一樣是做一件事情，你如果用石器時代的做法可能需要1個半小時，如果用新的工具有可能只需要15分鐘就做完了。","quality":0.457},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:19:34.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:19:52.469000+08:00","text":"人事長，我想跟你談一下公職獸醫的事情，讓你更加了解公職人力一旦流失對社會的影響，公職獸醫背負著動物健康、食品安全以及公共衛生的責任，但是去年爆發非洲豬瘟的時候，我們卻看到公職獸醫大概沒有辦法、無能為力，為什麼？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:19:52.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:19:53.489000+08:00","text":"人力實在不足……人力實在不足。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:19:54.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:20:06.075000+08:00","text":"雖然公職獸醫過去的起薪尚可，但實際上還是跟民間差很多，加上業務範圍很廣，因為他要辦動保跟防疫，責任很重。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:20:06.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:20:08.577000+08:00","text":"拜託主席再給我幾分鐘，謝謝你，讓我認真準備的東西可以跟人事長討論一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:20:08.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:20:33.735000+08:00","text":"當然這個現象等於變相鼓勵獸醫往民間換跑道，我知道農業部有爭取，你剛剛也有提到不開業獎金及其他專業加給，但是也有人說新人必須整整撐住一整年才能領到1到3萬的獎金，所以有人說這個獎金未必留得住人才。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:20:35.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:20:41.785000+08:00","text":"人事長，就公職獸醫來看，當然這不是單一農業部可以承擔的問題，你有沒有任何想法呢？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:20:43.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:20:58.963000+08:00","text":"回復委員的訊息，我們只要針對他有獸醫執照但不開業，他是一個月都多1萬到3萬，不用再等一年，所以他一年……如果是比較資深符合哪一個階級以上的，一年就多36萬了。","quality":0.746},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:20:59.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:21:00.204000+08:00","text":"人事長，我們繼續觀看，因為非洲豬瘟讓我們知道公職獸醫非常重要。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:21:00.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:21:00.365000+08:00","text":"有，這一點我也很重視。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:21:00.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:21:00.405000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝人事長。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:21:00.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:21:02.206000+08:00","text":"人事長請你再看這個圖，這個圖是前高雄市議員，也曾經在基層擔任公務員的林于凱跟我談到的，因為有不少公務員在他服務議員期間向他反映，讓我非常驚訝。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:21:02.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:21:28.709000+08:00","text":"我先請教人事長，現在有3位公務員想要彼此商調到對方單位：A本來在臺北市政府任職，B是在臺中市政府，C是在高雄市政府，我們現在先假設他們都是社會局員工好了，B想要到臺北市社會局，B必須等到臺北市社會局開缺出來；A要到高雄也是要等到高雄市政府開缺出來；C要到臺中也是一樣。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:21:49.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:21:54.971000+08:00","text":"等對方政府都開缺出來，然後這邊同意放人，他們才能去報到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:21:55.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:00.739000+08:00","text":"我認為這個程序當然都不能免，但是我請教人事長，您覺得這個過程要多久？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:01.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:02.233000+08:00","text":"我跟委員說……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:02.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:02.694000+08:00","text":"你看這樣要多久？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:02.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:08.877000+08:00","text":"目前我們是有一個事求人，但是委員說的部分，我們是一個平台……","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:08.877000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:09.877000+08:00","text":"只針對這件案例，你覺得……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:09.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:22.644000+08:00","text":"就是我們會建一個平台，年底以前會好，就像你說的，大家先在那個平台協調就對了，看哪裡有缺，大家相互資訊透明化會比以前更……","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:22.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:26.165000+08:00","text":"人事長，不好意思，我是說您心中合理的商調完成時間是多久？","quality":0.44},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:26.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:26.966000+08:00","text":"您覺得合理的時間是多久？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:26.966000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:30.083000+08:00","text":"愈快愈好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:30.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:31.365000+08:00","text":"你知道這案例最後花多久時間嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:31.365000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:32.365000+08:00","text":"這是民眾陳情……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:31.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:31.646000+08:00","text":"這要看有沒有缺，如果是消防的……","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:31.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:31.886000+08:00","text":"他們是同質商調！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:31.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:45.416000+08:00","text":"商調，一般我們的規定是不能超過3個月。拜託！","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:45.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:46.437000+08:00","text":"這件是3年。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:47.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:49.099000+08:00","text":"我找資料給你好了，3年哦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:49.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:22:58.887000+08:00","text":"我這樣問就是等你這個答案，你認為3個月可以辦完，但是這個案子是3年完成，3年很漫長，用人生來看3年很短，但是從職業生涯來看……","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:22:58.887000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:23:03.531000+08:00","text":"這個規定已經修過了，以後這種案件麻煩委員把資料給我，我來處理。","quality":0.036},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:23:03.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:23:31.014000+08:00","text":"好，人事長，我最後一個建議，我認為教師體系他們已經有教師介聘他縣市的服務，我知道你剛剛也有提到想要這樣做，介聘網站是官方建立，這很重要，官方建立是希望加速整個商調的速度，類似的做法在公務體系，如果我沒有記錯的話，現在只有警察跟消防有跟進，我認為人事行政總處可以參考教育部建立這個系統，先試辦同性質的公務員商調，例如一條鞭：人事一條鞭，人事公務員；政風一條鞭，政風公務員；還有審計一條鞭，審計公務員。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:23:43.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:23:45.825000+08:00","text":"針對同質的，我們是不是先儘快改善？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:23:46.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:23:53.475000+08:00","text":"若不同性質，我知道要克服很多問題，需要多一點時間，所以人事、審計跟政風的商調是否可以優先試辦？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:23:58.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:24:02.890000+08:00","text":"因為每個人遷居、結婚或照顧老小，難免需要商調。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:24:02.890000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:24:03.890000+08:00","text":"人事先來試辦。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T09:24:03.890000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:24:04.890000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T09:24:02.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:24:02.930000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳昭姿委員。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:24:03.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:24:03.190000+08:00","text":"召委不讓我講話了，謝謝召委。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T09:24:03.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:24:06.453000+08:00","text":"我很想讓你多說一些，我怕他們在那邊等不好意思，下次多兩小時讓你說。","quality":0.567},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-03-25T09:24:06.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:24:06.753000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，謝謝人事長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T09:24:07.253000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:24:20.395857+08:00","text":"議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢，尚未確定，現在先確定議事錄，請問各位，上次的會議議事錄有沒有錯誤跟遺漏的地方？","quality":0.065},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T09:24:20.695857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:24:23.553000+08:00","text":"（無）沒有的話，議事錄確定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T09:24:23.853000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:24:28.995857+08:00","text":"接下來請本委員會最帥的林沛祥委員詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}