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謝謝主席有請人事長請人事長等一下 人事長你是要監督也要關心你 你是捐肥還是運動這樣好 要補充 奇怪怎麼突然變瘦了"},{"start":31.343,"end":51.084,"text":"好 任社長早今天我要談的其實跟陳昭之委員的主題是很像的其實大家心裡都知道 但是不願意正式的問題我們的公務體系其實正在慢慢的失血不是一天 不是一年 而是長期性 結構性的失血我先講一句比較白話的啦"},{"start":52.089,"end":81.361,"text":"現在很多年輕人對公務員的運向已經不是從鐵飯碗開始而是變成所謂的高壓鍋也就是說進去是悶著做做久了就想跑這件事情如果剛趙人事長講的說行政院覺得還是個人選擇那就太過樂觀了我想先問第一個最基本的問題立法院已經通過三讀的軍人加薪警消人士退休條例現在執行的狀況是什麼呢"},{"start":83.817,"end":99.104,"text":"我在回答這個問題之前我先跟委員報告我們上一年114年有針對國防部還有海委會的志願役他的志願役加級還有戰鬥加級我們行政院已經"},{"start":100.605,"end":113.233,"text":"提了171億的增額那針對錦銷它的刑事加成危老加成的部分我們也增加了31億我想問接下來我的問題我們看到狀況其實很簡單全序部說行政院沒編預算行政院又說整體財政要考量簡單一句話法律過了"},{"start":124.366,"end":143.439,"text":"政府還在觀望那我也想請教人事總署行政院到底會不會依法編列預算呢還是現在的標準是法律可以選擇性執行如果今天一個依法三讀通過總統公布的法律都能夠拖都可以不做那麼請問你認為給基層公務人員傳達的訊息是什麼"},{"start":148.867,"end":175.255,"text":"我想政府本來就是依法行政當法律通過的時候因為行政院他目前認為這兩個有執行上的一些疑慮的他還在申請事件當中市長我們就是今天是理性的討論啦老實說這個給基層公務員傳達的訊息就是說你們的權益是看政府的心情制度不是保障而是參考"},{"start":176.397,"end":203.656,"text":"那請問現在這樣的制度一般的年輕人會願意進來嗎我想可能委員有一點誤解事實上政府該給的權益這一定要做的然後我們要求我們同仁要盡的義務這也是一個相對的這就是現在我要講到第二個問題了啦老實說現在公務體系有個非常明顯的現象喔"},{"start":204.637,"end":232.459,"text":"越年輕越優秀越有選擇的人流失越快其實以人才的能力的發揮來講這不見得全然是壞事這代表他們有能力選擇離開但是真正應該擔心的是為什麼留下來的人變成沒有選擇的人我就想請教我們市長去年到今年離職人數有多少新進報考人數有多少有沒有下降的趨勢呢"},{"start":234.341,"end":261.708,"text":"報考人數是有下降可是我們現在的離職率大概都維持在大概1.1%左右因為這裡面有辭職裡面還有包含退休因為他的定義現在前續部統計出來的那個集合比較大有些是辭職嘛有些退休有些是轉職有些轉職之後他再重考他會有很多的pattern就叫人市長"},{"start":262.828,"end":279.031,"text":"你們的對策是什麼我指的不是口號不是言議中而是已經可以執行的方案不要說一天到晚我們說聽到跨部會溝通啦持續監禁啦因為基層的狀況是人已經走了不會等你繼續監禁啦"},{"start":281.808,"end":302.923,"text":"我利用這個機會也跟我演報告一下為什麼我們這兩年花很多的effort在推人工智慧的原因就是說我們還是發現有少數幾個機關它的作業模式是有一點類似石器時代的做法可是2000年那個數位世代的年輕人進來"},{"start":305.105,"end":332.201,"text":"2000年出生的數位延伸帶出來到現在26歲他已經進到公務職場結果他當他進到公務職場看到我們現有的少部分機關他的作業方式還是古時候Handmade的這個方式他文化上會有衝擊他沒有辦法調適所以待幾個月以後他會解決問題的方法責任都應該放在AI身上而不是因為人數不夠是這樣講嗎"},{"start":333.646,"end":361.927,"text":"AI可以幫我們解決不少的問題可是沒有辦法幫我們解決所有的問題好 那我想請問我們人事總署老師某個程度上我也覺得有點尷尬就是說我們每次遇到任何問題我們就說責任誰該負責但是現在的狀況是制度問題推給權序部預算問題推給行政院用人問題說是各機關單位那變成是說有一個很奇怪的現象問題是明確的大家這些問題只要"},{"start":363.248,"end":387.327,"text":"露出來在媒體上或者我們感覺到的問題都是明確而且存在的對我們國家是一個clear and present danger是我們國家一個明顯而且很清楚的一個威脅但是問題很明確沒有一個單位負責我就想請教人事總署你們到底是政策規劃者還是所謂的這個轉接的窗口甚至這樣講你們到底是總管還是總機啊"},{"start":390.031,"end":401.38,"text":"我們在整個行政院人事的組織言語片式上我們是總管我們是總管法規部分是在考試院那裡法規的部分"},{"start":402.586,"end":429.232,"text":"老師講如果只是轉公文那真的AI都可以做不是只有轉公文因為我沒有去訂整個國家治理的一些人力的policy如果是總管那其實你們如果是政策中樞那今天公務體系的人才流失你們就不能只做統計而是要負責方法解決就好像如果災情來了你們不能只是來報告災情而是要實質上的救災防災"},{"start":430.632,"end":450.059,"text":"基層的崩壞這不是新聞是日常最後我們都講一個大家都知道但是很少人敢正面講的問題基層公務人員超累業務量過高人力長期不足責任無限上綱那尤其像說消防人員這種職務我想全台灣都在缺"},{"start":451.087,"end":465.901,"text":"那高風險高工時高壓力可是人力卻長期補不起來我就想請問人事總署不足額的權力缺口你們具體的補強機制是什麼是加班補人還是用熱血去撐"},{"start":467.15,"end":488.139,"text":"我跟委員報告消防署他在107年到117年他有提一個6千人的增援計畫到今年為止已經增加5千多人現在實際的情況我跟委員報告因為整個消防人員的專業訓練基本上快要兩年訓練完以後他"},{"start":489.096,"end":511.988,"text":"他支援各個縣市地方的消防局事實上他需要有一個比較長時間的事實上之前我們對消防能力的補足我們也百分之百的支持因為他對整個社會的安定安全很重要就是把現在的模式把它外面講一聲你們想要做的但現在的模式很簡單啊缺人"},{"start":512.748,"end":537.999,"text":"不夠現在人力撐撐不住離職然後更缺人這種叫什麼這種不叫管理這就叫 vicious cycle這叫惡性循環這叫慢性放棄我認為說今天我們講的所有的問題其實都指向一件事我們政府現在有沒有把公務體系把它當成一個需要經營的人才系統還是可以把它變成一直一個可以一直消耗的行政工具呢"},{"start":538.888,"end":566.045,"text":"年輕人當然會離開 甚至一剛開始就不進來以前大家的想法這是鐵飯碗 現在變高壓鍋的時候我想沒有人會願意進來在這種環境之下這種招不保戲 責任不明確 然後命令也不清楚這種情況不會有人想進來的最後這邊我講一句比較重的啦當公務體系出現斷層的時候影響的不只是公務員 而是整個國家的治理能力喔"},{"start":567.626,"end":596.206,"text":"這件事我非常同意我要求人事總署呢不要再給方向不要再給原則請提出時間表跟具體措施跟可檢驗的成果不然再過幾年人事長不好意思我請教一下你還有幾年退休隨時可以退休那如果你一退休之後下一個人事長再馬上上來隨時可以退下一個人事長再上來也馬上隨時可以退那最後再過幾年我們司法法治委員會連質詢的人搞不好都不夠用了有沒有可能"},{"start":597.256,"end":625.809,"text":"不會啊 要樂觀一點我個人很想樂觀我個人一向是不做任何預設立場就事論事的人但是我現在看到整個公務洗戲看到整個基層公務員的方法這個出待方式我實在樂觀不起來我希望說人事總署把我們今天的質詢好好回去把他時間表 具體措施跟可檢驗結果拿出來這樣子不是給我們國會議員看而已而是給全社會大眾知道說我們政府"},{"start":626.309,"end":640.883,"text":"對於我們的公務體系對我們的軍公教警校是有想法的是有保障的是願意跟我們一起承擔覺得這國家治理很重要的好不好謝謝好 謝謝林沛翔"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}