{"error":false,"id":["167856"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167856,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167856","日期":"2026-03-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-03-25T10:14:42+08:00","結束時間":"2026-03-25T10:27:05+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:23","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/755992caaad3baae7e2e400a1e369868b86a255e355343ec5dcddfbaa3ed0a436246a27f61d679685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱慧洳","委員發言時間":"10:14:42 - 10:27:05","會議時間":"2026-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：討論事項\n審查\n一、 委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二、 委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第七十七條條文修正草案」案。\n三、 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、 委員林月琴等16人擬具「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n五、 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我們有請衛福部長好 請使部長部長好"},{"start":30.396,"end":54.745,"text":"好我今天要跟你交流的問題呢是關於少子化的問題如何搶救的議題這樣子那我想這個少子化的問題呢實在是非常的嚴重那已經是這個國安層級的議題了那我想這是不爭的事實所以如何呢我們要來這個搶救少子化刺激台灣新生兒的這個生育率呢我想這個是當務之急"},{"start":57.086,"end":80.2,"text":"那這個衛福部的一些努力我們過去其實也有看到就是過去8年編列了很多預算預算高達5931億那我們就是很納悶怎麼預算越編越多但是新生兒越生越少那我們覺得實在是有一點匪夷所思"},{"start":80.96,"end":84.981,"text":"那這個關於預算的編列 5931億這麼添加的一個數字居然讓我們出生率出現一個腰斬的一個局面2016年還有21萬的新生兒但是到了去年居然腰斬成不滿11萬"},{"start":103.107,"end":123.958,"text":"那這個腰斬的一個情形在今年2月又更顯得真的是非常的淒慘怎麼淒慘呢就是單月新生兒的人數還破了7000大關那這個就很像打炸一樣越打越炸真的看到不管是新生兒的數據越來越少打炸越來越猖獗真的是讓人家心有淒淒焉那除此之外我們也觀察到說衛福部有設立少子化辦公室"},{"start":128.74,"end":142.431,"text":"但是搞了半天發現掃紙化辦公室不是實體的是一個虛擬的辦公室這樣子所以我們在這邊想呼籲就是衛福部長也想建議你說這個你真的是要大刀闊斧雷力風行的為台灣催生挽救掃紙化的問題"},{"start":145.854,"end":159.206,"text":"如果你不這麼做說不定啊人民的認知呢不只辦公室是虛擬的可能連部長他們都認為是虛擬的也會感覺好像不存在這樣好所以我現在要問部長請問你挽救少子女化的對策是什麼我想跟這個委員說明這個在"},{"start":164.646,"end":192.615,"text":"這個出生率降低的部分當然從過去這幾年我們先從這個懷孕這邊做補助生產然後生育的補助然後養育的補助不斷地在做啦但是我想我們都忽略了就是在衛福部的角度來看是這樣但是其實還有其他的因素在影響包含職場的友善包含這個女性一旦"},{"start":193.155,"end":218.332,"text":"走入到婚姻進入到這個懷孕生產的階段他可能在職場上他的發展那麼會比這個同樣的這個男性上呢是為什麼你們的補助呢所以換言之呢這個層級呢不會是在衛福部的層級他必須在更高的層級所以才會有行政院"},{"start":219.392,"end":239.064,"text":"這個少子化辦公室啊不是衛福部的少子化辦公室應該在院裡面呢我們院裡面另外有在這個端於這個少子女那個少子化辦公室已經是許你這個新聞我們已經知道了那你剛講的措施就是用錢來解決問題但是對於一些硬體軟體的資源相對應要提供上去似乎沒有看到這一塊所以我現在要提出來的就是廣泉工科是不是你們的體防質疑部長來廣泉工科是不是你們的解放"},{"start":249.33,"end":274.663,"text":"還有各項的措施都一起來我已經聚焦在廣設公托是不是有效的解方之一廣設公托公托的反應是很好的你覺得是反應很好但是覆蓋率極低只有4%這個4%怎麼來的我們有實證的資料我們不只是只有公托我們還有準公托準公托是民間業者的努力當然他們的存在也非常的好但是不能因此而縮"},{"start":275.783,"end":288.451,"text":"放鬆於政府的責任他們的存在當然很優你們的存在也應該很優然後產生一家依大利的效果這個我們都知道但是公共的覆蓋率只有4%只有482家482家所衍生出來的覆蓋率只有7%好我現在就問當然那些都存在部長請你不要"},{"start":297.196,"end":308.601,"text":"我問A答B我問香蕉你要給我蘋果好不好沒有我是針對您的問題在回答我的問題你就是那我的意思就是說公托很少那你又給我扯到準公托你以為人家沒有血量的眼睛清除了頭腦嗎不是還包含準公托"},{"start":313.803,"end":314.744,"text":"當年的母數是27萬 乘出來的數"},{"start":334.315,"end":351.082,"text":"加減乘除出來的數字就是0.0399我還幫你45%入到4%請問你認不認為公托我現在在問公托你不要扯到準公托公托是不是還有努力的空間公托大概現在的這個公托的量能大概在17000人次左右"},{"start":351.482,"end":359.846,"text":"再加上的准公托4萬多的人士大概已經差不多到6萬人士左右再加上居家的保育類型現在量人數較過去提升到最少度當然我們也要繼續的推動公托"},{"start":372.773,"end":383.658,"text":"但是我們的預算在去年今年的預算沒有辦法去執行但是我們的預算在去年今年的預算沒有辦法去執行但是我們的預算在去年今年的預算沒有辦法去執行但是我們的預算在去年今年的預算沒有辦法去執行"},{"start":397.018,"end":415.851,"text":"我們這個是從你們的官網download下來的啊怎麼可能我們錯誤,應該是你們錯誤吧你可能有誤解,我請同仁跟你說明跟委員說明齁,現在在政府公辦的部分,一個是公共的托嬰中心同時公辦的還有一個叫做公共托育家園加總起來的數字,我們現在到"},{"start":420.194,"end":425.46,"text":"呃 去年的年底現在總數是530家 同時現在輔助是啊 沒錯啊 就是這個數字啊你們的公社民營托運中心387啊 公托的這個呃 家園是143加起來530 沒錯啊沒錯啊 但是衛福部我們"},{"start":436.033,"end":456.246,"text":"拿的數據就是你說的數據啊但是所以代表公社民營托運中心是387可是我剛講的數字是在兒少專區所呈現出來的數字是482所以一個數字變成衛福部跟社家署各自表述那我們看到一個數字怎麼會有一個各自表述的情形這是資料時間的差距因為數量一直在增加"},{"start":456.766,"end":459.207,"text":"數量在增加那你2024已經482了到2025變387這個怎麼數量增加我們看到的是滑落欸所以我覺得這個數字真的讓我們覺得真的是很匪夷所思啦真的是看著看著笑著笑著因為笑話一場嘛笑著笑著就哭了到底我們公社名有幾家衛福部的官員傻傻說不清楚一下子是482一下子是378好387那不管"},{"start":483.842,"end":510.999,"text":"數字是482還是387看起來就是整體就530嘛那530這些寥寥可數的數字可以承載每年大約10萬新生兒的需求嗎請問可以嗎 部長請問可以嗎那我當然也有觀察到你們過去8年有14億個叫做社區公托的計畫那由中央政府補助地方政府去設置這些公托但它是申請制的 那請問一下申請案件有多少那既然是申請制就有所謂通過跟不通過的問題"},{"start":512.5,"end":514.081,"text":"請問一下數據是如何這個公托我們還是持續的在擴大我們在115年也編列了預算要增加但是因為立法院沒有審查預算我再問你案件多少"},{"start":531.376,"end":539.018,"text":"聽不懂中文我們要用什麼語言來跟你溝通這個我們需要我們的共識求是要來趕快的做大公脫但是的預算沒有整齊我會把它繼續推動好 但你們現在已經進階到少子女化對策2.0了那這個我跟"},{"start":549.821,"end":554.524,"text":"2.0的預算沒有審查沒有審我們已經三讀通過了是現在擱置在行政院長手中如果你想要動之的話請去跟行政院長沒有審查就具有他的不確定性那我現在問部長現在這個求財若可求公托若可用申請制會有準薄的問題會有通過不通過的問題那需要曠日廢時的等待"},{"start":572.697,"end":586.091,"text":"所以是不是沒有辦法快速滿足廣設公托的目標所以我們在這邊建議中央政府補助地方政府設立公托要入法入額造法是一個強制性的規定就是中央政府在補地方政府設公托這件事情"},{"start":588.553,"end":612.059,"text":"沒有預算沒有預算已經告訴你718的預算三讀通過了啊你還在講沒有預算沒有審查的話呢就具有不確定性不知道如何執行啊是不是要帶頭造謠啊部長請不要做帶頭造謠718的預算三讀通過了我沒有造謠這個是事實現在預算擱置在行政院手中所以如果你能夠讓這個中央普遍調遷不正通過入法路而上法的話你就再"},{"start":613.039,"end":640.575,"text":"協助地方設立供託這件事就扮演比較積極的角色我們不敢說新生兒的人數會暴增但是至少會略有起色那現在我們台灣民眾黨也感受到不敢生不敢養的原因是因為沒有足夠的金錢所以我們台灣民眾黨提出了一個台灣未來賬戶希望幫兒少準備人生的第一桶金作為他們以後就學或就業的一個後盾請問一下部長覺得這個制度如何"},{"start":642.346,"end":670.848,"text":"我沒有太仔細的了解您所提的這個制度我們是台灣未來賬戶就是新生兒出生的時候給5萬然後他們成長到12年之前的每一年都在存入1萬然後經過這個利息複利的概念到18歲的時候會有大約35萬的規模然後就可以作為他們人生第一桶金去發展他們的事業或者是就學那你不知道那我告訴你這個行政院長的感覺還蠻欣賞我們這個構想的所以他在今年3月的施政報告呢其實是有把這個"},{"start":672.089,"end":692.179,"text":"類似的構想放進去施政報告然後我這邊也分享給部長知道那所以呢我這邊想請教部長可不可以給我們一個月內一個回覆就是中央政府補助地方政府設立公托入法的可行性可不可以評估一下因為我覺得中央政府在協助地方政府廣設公托這件事能夠再積極一點能夠"},{"start":693.76,"end":710.588,"text":"扮演一個重要的推手再來剛有提到說目前的這個公托計畫呢是採申請制的那至於申請的案數多少通過或不通過你好像完全沒有掌握但沒關係現在有一個月的時間可以讓你回去寫這個考題可不可以一個月之後給本席這兩個訴求的一個回應"},{"start":712.389,"end":738.297,"text":"按照新的地方這個財劃法呢那麼其實地方政府的預算已經大幅的增加那麼依法呢現在就可以去進行這些公托或者是准公托的推動部長我再跟你要資料不要再答非所問了我要跟你要蘋果你給我香蕉我是針對要要資料我會整欄都給你沒有問題好給我好那謝謝那請一個月之後呢這個滿滿的水果呈現在我眼前謝謝部長謝謝"},{"start":741.431,"end":743.084,"text":"好 謝謝邱慧如委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:14:51.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:14:53.219000+08:00","text":"有請衛福部部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T10:14:53.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:14:53.359000+08:00","text":"請石部長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:14:53.359000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:15:12.396000+08:00","text":"邱委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:15:12.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:15:12.396000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:15:13.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:15:18.919000+08:00","text":"我今天要跟你交流的問題，是關於少子化問題要如何搶救的議題。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:15:19.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:15:36.725000+08:00","text":"我國少子化問題實在非常嚴重，已經是國安層級的議題了，我想這是不爭的事實，所以要如何搶救少子化、刺激臺灣新生兒的生育率，實是當務之急。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:15:41.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:15:58.918000+08:00","text":"衛福部的一些努力，其實我們也有看到，過去八年編列了高達5,931億的預算，但我就很納悶，怎麼預算越編越多，但新生兒卻越生越少？","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:15:59.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:16:02.180000+08:00","text":"我覺得實在是有一點匪夷所思。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:16:02.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:16:32.471000+08:00","text":"關於預算的編列，5,931億這麼天價的一個數字，居然讓我們的出生率出現腰斬的局面，2016年還有21萬新生兒，但到了去年，居然腰斬成不滿11萬，這個腰斬的情形在今年2月又更顯得淒慘，怎麼淒慘呢？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:16:32.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:16:44.777000+08:00","text":"就是單月新生兒的人數還破了7,000大關，這就很像打詐一樣，越打越詐，打詐越來越猖獗，而新生兒的數據也越來越少，真的是讓人心有戚戚焉！","quality":0.754},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:16:45.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:17:16.101000+08:00","text":"除此之外，我們也觀察到衛福部有設立少子化辦公室，但搞了半天，卻發現這個少子化辦公室不是實體的，是一個虛擬的辦公室，所以我們在這邊要呼籲，也建議衛福部部長，你真的要大刀闊斧、雷厲風行的為臺灣催生，挽救少子化問題，如果你不這麼做，說不定人民的認知不只辦公室是虛擬的，可能連部長也認為是虛擬的，因為感覺好像是不存在。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:17:17.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:17:20.946000+08:00","text":"現在我就請問部長，你們挽救少子女化的對策是什麼？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:17:21.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:09.365000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，有關出生率降低的部分，當然過去這幾年，我們是先從懷孕進行補助，再生育補助，然後是養育補助，這些都不斷在做，但是我想我們都忽略了，因為在衛福部的角度來看是這樣，但其實還有其他的因素在影響，包含職場友善，包含女性一旦走入婚姻，進入到懷孕生產階段，可能在職場上的發展，就會比同樣的男性是……","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:09.365000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:13.327000+08:00","text":"你們的這些補助，如同我剛才說的，我們都知道……","quality":0.263},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:13.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:30.278000+08:00","text":"換言之，這個層級不會是在衛福部的層級，它必須是更高的層級，所以才會有行政院少子化辦公室的設立，它不是衛福部的少子化辦公室，而是院裡面另外有關於少子女、低出生率……","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:31.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:36.201000+08:00","text":"好，少子化辦公室已經是虛擬，這個新聞我們已經都知道了，至於你剛剛講的措施，就是用錢來解決問題……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:36.201000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:37.201000+08:00","text":"所以，它不是只有在生育……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:36.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:37.622000+08:00","text":"但是對於一些相對應硬體、軟體資源的提供……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:37.622000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:38.622000+08:00","text":"生育的部分，也在職場的友善部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:37.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:38.543000+08:00","text":"似乎沒有看到這一塊……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:38.543000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:39.543000+08:00","text":"還有後續降低……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:38.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:41.024000+08:00","text":"所以我現在要提出來的是，廣設公托是不是你們的解方之一……","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:41.024000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:44.459333+08:00","text":"他居住上的經濟壓力……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:44.459333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:47.894667+08:00","text":"部長，廣設公托是不是你們的解方之一？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:47.894667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:51.330000+08:00","text":"我的問題是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:51.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:53.832000+08:00","text":"還有各項的措施都一起來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:53.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:57.714000+08:00","text":"部長，不要答非所問，問A答B，真的，我已經聚焦在廣設公托是不是有效的解方之一？","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:58.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:58.674000+08:00","text":"廣設公托？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:58.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:01.195000+08:00","text":"對，公托的反應是很好的。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:01.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:05.677000+08:00","text":"你覺得反應很好，但覆蓋率極低，只有4%，這個4%怎麼來的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:05.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:06.898000+08:00","text":"我們有實證資料，2024年……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:07.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:10.199000+08:00","text":"我們不是只有公托，我們還有準公托。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:11.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:14.802000+08:00","text":"準公托是民間業者的努力，當然他們的存在也非常好……","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:14.802000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:15.802000+08:00","text":"對準公托我們也是有補助款的。","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:15.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:23.346000+08:00","text":"但是不能因此而放鬆了政府的責任，他們的存在當然很優，你們的存在也應該很優……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:23.346000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:24.346000+08:00","text":"這是一種公私協力，除了有公托之外……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:23.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:25.908000+08:00","text":"然後產生1+1大於2的效果，這個我們都知道……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:25.908000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:26.908000+08:00","text":"也讓民間加入，我們用補助的方式來……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:25.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:27.509000+08:00","text":"但是公托的覆蓋率只有4%，只有482家……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:27.509000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:28.509000+08:00","text":"減輕家長的壓力，所以……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:27.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:28.870000+08:00","text":"482家所延伸出來的覆蓋率只有4%……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:28.870000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:29.870000+08:00","text":"公托跟準公托都是在我們的托育政策裡面。","quality":0.056},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:29.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:30.171000+08:00","text":"當然，這些都存在。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:30.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:42.037000+08:00","text":"部長，請你不要我問A，你答B；我問香蕉，你要給我蘋果，好不好？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:42.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:44.078000+08:00","text":"沒有，我是針對你的問題在回答。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:44.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:50.341000+08:00","text":"我的意思是說公托很少，然後你又跟我扯到準公托，你以為人民沒有雪亮的眼睛、清楚的頭腦嗎？","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:50.341000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:53.072000+08:00","text":"我的意思是說在托育政策上，不是只有公托，還包含準公托，還有居家保母，也通通要一併看，不能夠見樹而不見林……","quality":0.174},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:53.072000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:55.803000+08:00","text":"但它是方法之一，我也沒有否認它是唯一的方法，它就是方法之一，我沒有否認它是唯一的方法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:55.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:20:21.297000+08:00","text":"我現在針對方法之一跟你就教，這4%是遠低於歐美國家，482家只收納1萬743名0到2歲的嬰幼兒，當年的母數是27萬，加、減、乘、除出來的數字就是0.0399，我還幫你四捨五入到4%。","quality":0.406},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:20:23.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:20:27.660000+08:00","text":"我現在在問公托，你不要扯到準公托，請問公托是不是還有努力的空間？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:20:28.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:20:40.466000+08:00","text":"現在公托的量能大概在一萬七千人次左右，再加上準公托的四萬多人次，大概已經差不多到六萬人次左右，再加上居家保母，其實現在量能上已經比過去提升非常多了……","quality":0.681},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:20:40.466000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:20:41.466000+08:00","text":"我們為什麼少子化會這麼嚴重？","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:20:41.466000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:20:42.466000+08:00","text":"因為部長完全沒有認知嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:20:42.466000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:20:43.466000+08:00","text":"所有的父母都認為托育機構不夠，部長還在這邊沾沾自喜，認為托育機構很夠，然後還在這邊沾沾自喜。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:20:43.466000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:20:44.466000+08:00","text":"我再來就教部長，482家是2024年衛福部兒少專區所呈現出來的數字……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:20:40.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:20:57.354000+08:00","text":"當然我們也要繼續推動公托，但是我們今年的預算就沒有辦法去執行。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:20:57.354000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:04.575333+08:00","text":"但是你們的社家署在2025年說公設民營的托嬰中心剩下387家，怎麼經過一年就有減無增？","quality":0.206},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:04.575333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:11.796667+08:00","text":"請問這是退步，還是誤植？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:11.796667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:19.018000+08:00","text":"這個是您的資料錯誤。","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:19.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:23.261000+08:00","text":"我們這個資料是從你們官網download下來的，怎麼可能是我們錯誤，應該是你們錯誤吧？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:24.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:26.543000+08:00","text":"你可能有誤解，我請同仁跟你說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:27.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:36.930000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，現在在政府公辦的部分，一個是公共的托嬰中心，同時公辦的還有一個叫作公共托育家園。知道！","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:36.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:44.697000+08:00","text":"加總起來的數字，到去年的年底，現在總數是530家，同時現在的母數……是啊！","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:44.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:45.017000+08:00","text":"沒錯啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:45.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:45.678000+08:00","text":"就是這個數字啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:45.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:47.040000+08:00","text":"你們的公設民營托嬰中心387家，公托家園是143家，加起來是530家，沒錯啊！","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:47.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:59.814000+08:00","text":"我們拿的數據就是你說的數據啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:01.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:12.022000+08:00","text":"代表公設民營托嬰中心是387，可是我剛剛講的數字在兒少專區呈現出來的是482，所以一個數字變成衛福部跟社家署各自表述。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:12.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:15.184000+08:00","text":"我們看到一個數字，怎麼會有各自表述的情形？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:15.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:18.226000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這是資料時間的差距，因為數量一直在增加……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:18.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:18.906000+08:00","text":"數量在增加？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:18.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:19.126000+08:00","text":"2024年已經是482了，到2025年變成387，怎麼是數量增加？","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:19.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:19.286000+08:00","text":"我們看到的是滑落欸！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:19.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:19.627000+08:00","text":"這個數字讓我們覺得真的是很匪夷所思啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:19.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:19.947000+08:00","text":"真的是看著看著、笑著笑著，因為笑話一場嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:19.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:20.147000+08:00","text":"笑著笑著就哭了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:20.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:20.407000+08:00","text":"到底我們公設民營有幾家？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:20.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:21.107000+08:00","text":"衛福部的官員傻傻說不清楚，一下子是482，一下子是387。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:21.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:49.985000+08:00","text":"不管數字是482，還是387，看起來整體就是530嘛！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:51.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:56.309000+08:00","text":"530家寥寥可數的數字，可以承載每年大約十萬新生兒的需求嗎？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:56.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:56.809000+08:00","text":"請問可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:56.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:58.350000+08:00","text":"部長，請問可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:58.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:11.038000+08:00","text":"我當然也有觀察到你們過去8年有實施一個叫作社區公托計畫，由中央政府補助地方政府去設置這些公托，但這是申請制的，請問一下申請案件有多少？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:11.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:14.740000+08:00","text":"既然是申請制，就有所謂通過跟不通過的問題，請問一下數據是如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:14.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:15.301000+08:00","text":"我們還是持續的在擴大公托，我們在115年也編列預算要增加。對！","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:15.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:15.721000+08:00","text":"但是因為立法院沒有審查預算，這樣就沒有辦法繼續推動，所以請趕快審預算……不是！","quality":0.382},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:15.721000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:16.721000+08:00","text":"你不要答非所問！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:15.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:33.916000+08:00","text":"我在問你案件多少，你是不是聽不懂中文？","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:34.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:36.177000+08:00","text":"我要用什麼語言跟你溝通？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:37.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:39.658000+08:00","text":"聽得很清楚，我們的共識就是要趕快擴大公托，但是預算沒有審查，無法繼續推動……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:39.658000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:40.658000+08:00","text":"很清楚，你就是答非所問啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:40.658000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:41.658000+08:00","text":"我現在就問你案件，你回答不出來是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:41.658000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:42.658000+08:00","text":"你回答不出來，就直播給全國看你沒有掌握這個數據！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:39.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:40.998000+08:00","text":"好，你們現在已經進階到少子女化對策2.0，我跟部長報告……","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:51.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:52.101000+08:00","text":"2.0的預算沒有審查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:52.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:53.883000+08:00","text":"這筆經費沒有審，我們已經三讀通過了，是現在擱置在行政院長手中，如果你想要動支的話，請去跟行政院長陳情或者是情商……","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:53.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:54.843000+08:00","text":"沒有審查就具有它的不確定性，不知道如何執行。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:55.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:18.381000+08:00","text":"我現在問部長，現在是求才若渴、求公托若渴，用申請制會有准駁的問題、會有通過不通過的問題，需要曠日廢時的等待，是不是沒有辦法快速滿足廣設公托的目標？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:18.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:28.071000+08:00","text":"所以我們在這邊建議，中央政府補助地方政府設立公托要入法、入兒少法，這是一個強制性的規定，就是中央政府補助地方政府設立公托這件事情……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:28.071000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:31.233000+08:00","text":"預算沒有審查，我們都沒有辦法補助，這沒有預算啦！","quality":0.19},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:31.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:31.713000+08:00","text":"沒有預算？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:31.713000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:32.713000+08:00","text":"就沒有審查啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:31.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:34.934000+08:00","text":"已經告訴你718億元的預算三讀通過啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:35.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:36.354000+08:00","text":"你還在講沒有預算……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:36.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:40.095000+08:00","text":"沒有審查的話就具有不確定性，不知道如何執行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:40.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:41.256000+08:00","text":"是不是要帶頭造謠？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:41.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:43.756000+08:00","text":"部長，請不要帶頭造謠，718億元的預算已經通過了……","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:43.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:45.517000+08:00","text":"我沒有造謠，這個是事實。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:45.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:53.219000+08:00","text":"現在預算擱置在行政院手中，如果你能夠讓中央補助地方政府設立公托入法、入兒少法的話……","quality":0.658},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:53.219000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:55.039000+08:00","text":"沒有審查的話，具有它的不確定性，就無法執行。","quality":0.053},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:55.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:25:03.564000+08:00","text":"在協助地方設立公托這件事，你就扮演比較積極的角色，我們不敢說新生兒的人數會暴增，但是至少會略有起色。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:25:04.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:25:20.394000+08:00","text":"現在台灣民眾黨也感受到不敢生、不敢養的原因是因為沒有足夠的金錢，所以台灣民眾黨提出一個臺灣未來帳戶，希望幫兒少準備人生的第一桶金，作為他們以後就學或就業的後盾。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:25:21.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:25:22.555000+08:00","text":"請問一下部長，覺得這個制度如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:25:24.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:25:27.669000+08:00","text":"我沒有太仔細地了解您所提的這個制度。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:25:28.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:25:43.861000+08:00","text":"我們是推臺灣未來帳戶，就是新生兒出生的時候給5萬，他們成長到12年之前的每一年都再存入1萬，經過利息複利的概念，到18歲的時候，會有大約35萬的規模，就可以作為他們人生第一桶金，去發展他們的事業或者是就學。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:25:44.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:25:57.391000+08:00","text":"部長不知道，那我告訴你，行政院長感覺還滿欣賞我們的構想，所以他在今年3月的施政報告，其實是有把類似的構想放進去施政報告，我也分享給部長知道。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:25:59.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:09.437000+08:00","text":"我想請教部長，可不可以在一個月內給我們一個回復，就是中央政府補助地方政府設立公托入法的可行性，可不可以評估一下？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:09.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:16.841000+08:00","text":"因為我覺得中央政府在協助地方政府廣設公托這件事上，能夠再積極一點，能夠扮演一個重要的推手。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:17.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:32.588000+08:00","text":"再來，剛剛有提到目前的公托計畫是採申請制，至於申請案件數多少、通過或不通過，你好像完全沒有掌握，但沒關係，現在有一個月的時間可以讓你回去寫這個考題，可不可以一個月之後給本席這兩個訴求的回應？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:34.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:46.093000+08:00","text":"按照新的財劃法，其實地方政府的預算已經大幅地增加，依法現在就可以推動這些公托或者是準公托，這個沒有什麼問題。","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:46.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:49.174000+08:00","text":"部長，我在跟你要資料，不要再答非所問了！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:49.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:52.355000+08:00","text":"我跟你要蘋果，你給我香蕉？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:52.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:53.615000+08:00","text":"我是針對要資料……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:53.615000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:54.615000+08:00","text":"不會啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:53.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:55.696000+08:00","text":"我們會整籃都給你，沒有問題！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:55.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:57.196000+08:00","text":"好，會給我喔！謝謝。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:57.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:27:03.431000+08:00","text":"請在一個月之後，將滿滿的水果呈現在我眼前，謝謝部長。好、好。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T10:27:04.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:27:05.084000+08:00","text":"謝謝邱慧洳委員。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T10:27:05.584000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:27:08.155429+08:00","text":"接下來請蘇清泉委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}