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現在還很快 還有一天之後法務部再請矯正署去做補充的一個修正可是啊"},{"start":109.119,"end":127.864,"text":"這樣一年了 一年了 還在原地打轉那上個禮拜 署長他也很坦白講啦 他說問題出在你們這裡啦說多次跟人事行政總署來溝通 沒有結果啦所以 最近的 上禮拜 還在這裡 在委員會喔拜託草野 大家 委員給你們"},{"start":133.885,"end":161.975,"text":"改道協助啦所以我在這個地方就要來請教任市長一個很具體的問題這個津貼到底是卡在哪一個關卡啦其實我稍微報告 它很重要的是它的借戶人力事實上它每一個人扮演的角色不一樣每一個監所他收的受刑人他的pattern也不一樣這是第一點嘛 我們希望說"},{"start":164.437,"end":177.235,"text":"從108年第一次調整快20年沒有調第一次調108年的時候是我協助他們去調的我也很清楚可是他們這一次把一些論述沒有講得很清楚其實"},{"start":179.577,"end":199.591,"text":"趙薇你大家不知道一個很兇的就是叫你說是借戶人力的需求loading很重結果他們現在有些監守是把借戶人力派去集團秘書單位行政作業行政作業叫你說應該是要簡化你的重點應該是借戶嘛結果你把借戶人力"},{"start":200.191,"end":227.978,"text":"移到去做那個秘書單位那是本末倒置的嘛那其實我是覺得他們來不愛好要去檢討那個你要去加強你的政府人力你看那個設備給民、人你要怎麼分區管理來強化你的監守管理的安全性應該是要做這個要吃飯啦結果他們那個就是有一點點的吃低 低沒辦法啦高我吃得很貴啦聽得懂啦"},{"start":229.897,"end":252.816,"text":"所以這個問題就卡在本來要養豬 你的比喻就是這樣這意思就是說要給真正從事介護的人員的啦 給他津貼啦那實際上呢 他就把這樣的該給這一份給予的地方就變成沒有去從事介護的人 他要站在這條 你的意思是不是這樣"},{"start":255,"end":272.567,"text":"是他的介護人力有些本來在扮演介護的結果他過去支援秘書單位的那個所以你的意思就是說這麼人賺到了對不對啦你都沒有實際在從事介護的工作嘛那結果你從事那個整個秘書職可能到點獄長啦 到這裡比較涼快你還要跟人家站這條是不是這樣但有一個問題啦 就是說"},{"start":278.97,"end":294.197,"text":"這個部分是另外去要求的問題可是你這樣變成說因為監所的一個管理裡面人員的一個配置產生問題可是對那些實際在從事介護的人我們也不能因為這個原因在整個行政流程你把他卡住啦這也不對啊"},{"start":296.818,"end":323.217,"text":"其實我跟教政的,是很熟的,我們從來沒有卡他們的想法只是說,一進度會四千五一份,要跳到多少一倍啦差不多有分兩件嘛,一個四千的嘛,要跳到八千嘛其實我覺得這個金錢,它的工作的風險,它的增加,我們內部有一套平和的標準這一套我覺得,大家彼此講清楚"},{"start":324.372,"end":330.294,"text":"他就蓋了,他就說他不會的,我們的遊戲規則就放他,這種應該是要大家溝通,你覺得我們訂的沒力,他就覺得他就是要這樣,讓我們同仁有這樣的感覺這樣敢不蓋?"},{"start":345.239,"end":360.268,"text":"一定有債的啊 國債可以幫他協助嗎可以幫他協助嗎絕對的啊 協助不來 大家都說會你這條喔 你很多的預算是因為債業黨就說你這個不合理或是不給你省 那這一條"},{"start":360.908,"end":363.149,"text":"因為這條真的講很久了這條草野都沒有問題的"},{"start":387.25,"end":389.356,"text":"可惜啦 這樣就可笑了 多久的時間我們頂一下啦"},{"start":391.314,"end":420.292,"text":"我們四位都已經處理好 四位都 覺得麻煩謝謝任市長總是這個這個把它有共識的我們就盡量來把它做一個處理那接下來就是說上個上個禮拜法務部專報裡面本席也去問了法官檢察官跟書記官司法人員過勞跟人員流失的問題其實我們同時也去看到近期很多的一個報導今天早上很多委員也去關心的整個公務人員"},{"start":421.452,"end":447.463,"text":"離職的部分啦 當然有人說用逃亡 我是不會這樣講啦但確實喔 公務人員的離職率 都要講的一個議題有時候你又造成說人才沒辦法進來那好的又留不住 這個就是很可惜啦現在就整個公務體系裡面啊年金的一個改革當然會有所衝擊當然現在新舊制度有所不同可是啊 這個業務量確實也大"},{"start":449.324,"end":477.748,"text":"那有人涉及到整個烤雞又大家又覺得說又不公平那如果連整個薪資的一個調整都讓這個基層工人覺得沒有感覺的話這個對整個國家治理來講的話也是一種風險啦也是一種風險啦我從第八屆進來的時候總預算的規模不曉得我記得是一兆七還是一兆八你看現在第十一屆人家到兩年多現在已經到三兆了"},{"start":479.022,"end":501.019,"text":"有時候一個國家的GDP成長連在政府編出來的總預算的規模從一兆多到現在十幾年的時間裡面已經達到三兆這代表說國力在增強我們稅收真的國力增強沒有好笑你看你稅收多少就知道看你稅出有多少你有沒有能力來承擔就知道可是呢這個整個薪資的部分這個確實我們看到"},{"start":505.443,"end":509.489,"text":"這個業務量這麼大 你說中央機關的總原額限制 現在你多少人16萬多嘛齁這個 任市長"},{"start":514.241,"end":531.941,"text":"十六萬零九百我們就在定義小政府的編制要從事這個大政府的一個業務那一百一十六年度的調薪的部分你們現在已經說了過去四年已經調三次了所以一百一十五年不要再調了這個尊重但是問題就是說"},{"start":535.845,"end":555.559,"text":"你普遍公務人員一定會去跟你反映就是說這個整個跟我們整個GDP的成長啦跟國民薪資的中位數實質購買力來講的話這個其實實際上薪水跟我們的幣是在往下喔那所以這個部分我要請教你就是說116年度的待遇的調整你們當時也會去啟動"},{"start":557.13,"end":570.007,"text":"通盤的一個評估你們的評估的標準有可能給它納入我們剛才說的實質購買力不然你國家的總預算可以增加經濟也是在成長但是人家說我的薪水"},{"start":572.447,"end":595.322,"text":"這個補優還沒有 簡單請回答要增加這個實質購買力我們再來跟主計總署還有財政部那裡溝通一下啦那我沒辦法直接稍微答覆但是啟動明年的一個條件我們有一個條貸委員會那我們大概六月以前應該會召開其實齁你們在2024年你們"},{"start":602.587,"end":625.498,"text":"整個調工人員調薪的一個程序你們也認為該法治化你現在不是你現在什麼人做行政議員就是什麼人拍板當然涉及到國家的財政沒錯但問題是薪資如何來做一個調整你如果沒有去一個法治化譬如說你公開數據公視審議的過程不是每個人都說是財政你如果要說是財政我要說我們的財政當年如何如何"},{"start":631.983,"end":645.113,"text":"如果要這樣講的話,不是嗎?你只會笑這是很嚴肅的一個問題喔我的意思就是去研議一個可以量化的啦不然你說我的總預算越來越好,財政經濟一直發展,國家越來越強人家會問說,阿姨你的薪水呢?"},{"start":649.118,"end":666.373,"text":"這個一針馬上會戳到說我們這個政府的治理的一個效能裡面該給公務人員的部分我們確實啊我去年金改革那是一回事那涉及到整個你說這個整個年金改革你如果不夠那會破產"},{"start":666.954,"end":672.296,"text":"大家去想辦法來做改革 那就已經有命運了對衝擊的人 但是對公務人員的照顧 尤其這部分來講的話我反而 這個可以說理的喔 這個該照顧還是要給人家照顧喔再來就是說 年輕人就開始我們看得到說受僱者代表可以納入審議會這個喔 我希望說你去年喔 你10月 你10月總促加表示法治化以後新的諮詢委員會納入兩層的基層代表這個喔"},{"start":697.784,"end":723.243,"text":"這個方向你會改變嗎所以說啊 所以說啊 這是你們整個行政體系的問題啊讓整個公務人員 這個整個待遇的一個審議喔受僱者的代表的席次 他們最了解啦讓他們進入這個決策圈 就是也可以展現政府積極改善受僱者待遇的這樣的一個態度啦"},{"start":723.883,"end":728.607,"text":"我覺得這個人事長你也應該勇於去表達這個最後一個問題 因為阿標有些人要問我不覺得擔心的事國民旅遊卡 我們是不是有可能來放寬你譬如說 為什麼要國民旅遊卡 給人家的就是說要公務人員說 你很辛苦的 讓你去放鬆一下 讓你去旅遊一下"},{"start":748.824,"end":767.259,"text":"這個其實都是在講身心健康嘛那如果身心健康的話 鼓勵他去運動這也是啊這也是讓他身心健康很好的一個方式啊不是只有旅遊啊那所以說範圍有沒有可能來放寬啊古你本時曾經跟人事長你們去爭取公務人員健康檢查補助費用的部分你說檢討到條件齁"},{"start":770.981,"end":775.003,"text":"運動的角度我們是不是在譬如說你現在將中央在辦的基層運動大會都刪掉那是好事啦那類似有點大拜拜啦這個其實滿了十年以後"},{"start":787.29,"end":794.855,"text":"政府去鼓勵我們公務人員去從事運動 我覺得這是好事你要從事運動 你會降低運動的成本所以我們是不是可以放寬國民旅遊卡的使用範圍以前只有限定旅遊而已 未來你開放可以買券 買特約商店的商品是不是可以放寬"},{"start":813.428,"end":836.462,"text":"運動中心或是民營的健身房 讓他們去建立一個特約的關係這樣喔 觀光也是在促進公務人員身心的健康 讓他休息去運動 那也是一件好事 范瑞哥要看一看 任市長你的看法我為從之前早晚的看法 除了運動以外 我們也把文化的部分也納進來"},{"start":837.523,"end":858.74,"text":"是 因為我覺得這塊 身心靈 健康 救民 四肢要健全 文化的涵養也要夠啦那都有交流來是啊 我譬如說我去什麼鐵人山巷啊 或是那些自由車啊我也可以來抵報民會啊 這是很好的一件事情啊你看我們那個 范營委員 在教育委員會的人也一直在點頭做教學也一直在點頭 這是一個好的方向啦"},{"start":864.335,"end":875.488,"text":"照顧公務人員不是只有提升福利提升福利是好事促進他的健康 叫他去觀光也好事叫他去運動也是好事喔而且運動部我們去年成立囉"},{"start":877.048,"end":898.503,"text":"去年政府來帶頭,就是說我要培養運動發展,培養全民運動的風氣所以運動也不分公務人員,也不分你做產的,全民大家一起來嘛公務人員的部分,所以這個部分我覺得去照顧全體公務人員職場的適應,這也是一個福利的提升所以人事長沒有問題啦,我們放寬啦"},{"start":904.755,"end":904.896,"text":"好謝謝任市長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:12:59.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:13:01.573000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請蘇人事長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T10:13:01.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:13:02.055000+08:00","text":"有請蘇人事長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:13:02.055000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:13:07.847000+08:00","text":"召委早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:13:07.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:13:08.968000+08:00","text":"人事長，你這樣瘦了幾公斤？14。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:13:12.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:13:13.411000+08:00","text":"12公斤喔！14啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:13:14.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:13:20.016000+08:00","text":"我一陣子沒看到你，今天看你瘦成這樣，要關心你一下，要保重喔！好。","quality":0.407},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:13:20.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:13:23.799000+08:00","text":"我本來以為你去運動，結果……要保重！","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:13:24.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:13:26.941000+08:00","text":"身體健康還是最重要的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:13:27.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:13:29.603000+08:00","text":"有幾個問題要就教人事長。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:13:31.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:13:53.954000+08:00","text":"上個禮拜，我們司法及法制委員會由翁召委主持的時候，我特別就教法務部和矯正署，朝野其實早就已經有共識了，我上禮拜也特別請教了翁召委，他說法務部矯正署的預算他會大力支持。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:13:55.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:14:11.463000+08:00","text":"現在監所管理人員的戒護津貼明顯偏低，以目前的標準來看，收容人2,000人以上是4,500元，2,000人以下是4,000元，間接勤務的部分是3,000元。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:14:14.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:14:42.263000+08:00","text":"從行政流程的時間軸來看，去年5月5日矯正署向法務部陳報「增支專業加給表」的調整案，法務部很快就在6月13日函轉行政院，10月13日你們人事行政總處函復法務部，法務部非常快速地在一個禮拜之後，也就是10月21日就再請矯正署補充修正。","quality":0.553},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:14:42.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:14:48.140000+08:00","text":"可是將近一年，這件事情還在原地打轉。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:14:48.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:15:09.425000+08:00","text":"上個禮拜署長也很坦白講，他說問題出在你們這裡，他們多次跟人事行政總處溝通，沒有結果，甚至他上禮拜還在這裡拜託朝野委員協助。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:15:10.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:15:17.468000+08:00","text":"所以我就要請教人事長一個很具體的問題，這個津貼到底是卡在哪一關？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:15:21.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:15:36.414000+08:00","text":"跟召委報告，戒護人力事實上每一個人扮演的角色不一樣，每個監所收受刑人的pattern也不一樣，這是第一點。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:15:39.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:15:51.754000+08:00","text":"戒護津貼之前有快20年沒有調，108年第一次調增的時候是我協助他們去調的，我也很清楚，可是他們這次有一些論述沒有講得很清楚。","quality":0.736},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:15:54.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:16:18.512000+08:00","text":"召委大概不知道一個現象，照理說戒護人力的需求loading很重，結果現在有些監所是把戒護人力派去支援秘書單位的行政作業，行政作業照理說應該要簡化，他們的重點應該是戒護，結果卻把戒護人力移到秘書單位，那是本末倒置嘛！","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:16:19.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:16:42.258000+08:00","text":"所以我其實覺得他們內部要好好檢討這個部分，應該加強戒護人力，看設備方面和人員之間要如何進行分區管理，來強化監所管理的安全性，從這方面著手才是正辦，結果他們有點像是養豬，豬吃不到，狗卻養得很肥。","quality":0.477},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:16:42.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:16:42.958000+08:00","text":"我聽得懂啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:16:44.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:17:07.816000+08:00","text":"所以這個問題就卡在，本來要養豬，意思就是應該給真正從事戒護工作的人員津貼，實際上卻把它給了沒有在從事戒護工作的人，你的意思是不是這樣？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:17:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:17:16.163000+08:00","text":"我的意思是他們的管理人力有些本來要做戒護工作，結果去支援秘書單位……","quality":0.613},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:17:16.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:17:20.164000+08:00","text":"所以你的意思是被這些人賺到就對了？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:17:20.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:17:26.447000+08:00","text":"他們沒有實際在從事戒護的工作，而是擔任秘書職，譬如典獄長等比較涼的缺，可是他們也可以領這個津貼，是不是這樣？","quality":0.51},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:17:26.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:17:49.177000+08:00","text":"但是有一個問題，這部分是要另外去要求的，可以這樣變成……其實是監所管理人員的配置產生問題，可是對那些實際在從事戒護工作的人，也不能因此而在整個行政流程把它卡住，這也不對啊！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:17:51.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:18.197000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，其實我和矯正署的人很熟，我們從來沒有卡他們的想法，只是他們現在要一下子從4,500元調增大約一倍，他們分兩級，一級是4,000元，要調增到將近8,000元，其實對於這個金額和工作風險的增加，我們內部有一套評核的標準，我覺得這一套大家彼此講清楚，那就改了嘛！","quality":0.536},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:18.197000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:19.672000+08:00","text":"他們講不出來嗎？","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:19.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:20.592000+08:00","text":"他們都說他們要，可是我們的遊戲規則就擺在那裡啊！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:21.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:25.114000+08:00","text":"這種事情應該是要大家溝通，你覺得我們的規定沒道理，可是他們覺得他就是要這樣，讓我們同仁有這樣的感覺。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:25.114000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:40.239000+08:00","text":"這樣難道無解嗎？","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:40.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:41.060000+08:00","text":"一定有解的啊！大家……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:42.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:44.061000+08:00","text":"可不可以協助他們？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:44.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:45.962000+08:00","text":"絕對可以啊！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:45.962000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:49.277333+08:00","text":"大家都說可以，可是很多預算都是在野黨說這個不合理、不給你審，這個部分不一樣，這部分朝野都認為應該增加，你們也認為應該增加，你們也沒有問題，只是他們送來的案子讓你們覺得，在溝通的環節當中，你們認知的標準跟他們有所不同，所以你們是不是可以訂一個時間，把他們叫來，看看希望他們怎麼做，趕快有個結果，好不好？OK。","quality":0.153},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:49.277333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:52.592667+08:00","text":"可以吧？好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:52.592667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:55.908000+08:00","text":"大概要多久？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:18:55.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:18:58.129000+08:00","text":"因為這件事情真的講很久了，而且朝野都沒有問題耶！","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:22.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:22.591000+08:00","text":"可惜啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:23.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:24.336000+08:00","text":"看要多久，訂個時間啦！","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:26.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:27.555000+08:00","text":"我們4月底以前把它處理好。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:27.555000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:30.316000+08:00","text":"好，4月底，就麻煩你了。好。","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:30.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:19:36.040000+08:00","text":"謝謝人事長，對於有共識的部分，我們就儘量把它處理啦！","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:19:36.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:20:12.159000+08:00","text":"接下來，上個禮拜法務部來進行專案報告，本席也去問了法官、檢察官、書記官等司法人員過勞和人員流失的問題，其實我們同時也看到近期很多報導，今天早上很多委員也關心公務人員離職的部分，有的人是說「逃亡」，我是不會這樣講，但是確實公務人員離職率這樣的議題，有時候造成人才沒辦法進來，好的人才又留不住，這樣就很可惜啦！","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:20:12.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:20:37.875000+08:00","text":"在整個公務體系裡面，年金的改革當然會有所衝擊，現在新舊制度有所不同，而業務量確實也很大，有人覺得整個考績制度不公平，如果連薪資的調整都讓基層公務人員覺得沒有感覺的話，這對整個國家治理來講也是一種風險。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:20:38.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:20:52.728000+08:00","text":"我是第8屆進來的，我記得那時候總預算的規模是一兆七或一兆八，現在是第11屆，這一屆經過兩年多，目前已經到三兆了！","quality":0.729},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:20:54.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:13.357000+08:00","text":"一個國家GDP的成長，政府所編出來的總預算規模以前是一兆多，經過十幾年的時間，現在已經達到三兆，代表國力增強，其實國力有沒有增強也不用吹牛，你只要看稅收是多少就知道，看歲出是多少、有沒有能力來承擔就知道。","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:13.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:23.848000+08:00","text":"可是整個薪資的部分確實要調整，我們看到業務量這麼大，中央機關總員額有限制，現在是多少人？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:23.848000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:24.848000+08:00","text":"人事長，人數是十六萬多嘛？對。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:24.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:21:38.571000+08:00","text":"是16萬900人，這樣就等於是小政府的編制要從事大政府的業務。","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:21:39.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:04.435000+08:00","text":"關於116年度的調薪這部分，你們行政院說在過去4年已經調3次了，所以115年不要再調了，我們也尊重，但是問題就是普遍來說公務人員一定會跟你反映，以我們整個GDP的成長跟國民薪資的中位數、實質購買力來講，其實薪水跟這些相比是往下的。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:05.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:13.592000+08:00","text":"所以我要請教你，你們什麼時候會啟動對116年度待遇調整的通盤評估？","quality":0.607},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:14.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:18.839000+08:00","text":"你們評估的標準有可能納入我們剛剛說的實質購買力？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:18.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:24.987000+08:00","text":"不然國家的總預算在增加，經濟也在成長，但是大家在問：我的薪水呢？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:24.987000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:31.650000+08:00","text":"請簡單回答這部分到底有沒有。","quality":0.231},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:31.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:42.537000+08:00","text":"關於要增加實質購買力，我們再來跟主計總處還有財政部溝通一下，我沒有辦法直接答復召委。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:44.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:22:50.222000+08:00","text":"至於啟動明年調整待遇的條件，我們有一個調待委員會，應該會在6月以前召開。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:22:50.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:07.972000+08:00","text":"其實你們也認為整個公務人員調薪的程序應該法制化，你們有多次承諾要在2024年完成，可是你們現在不是這樣，現在是什麼人當行政院長就是由他拍板。","quality":0.452},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:07.972000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:08.972000+08:00","text":"我們有送了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:08.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:28.884000+08:00","text":"這當然涉及到國家的財政沒錯，但問題是薪資如何調整法制化，譬如說，比較公開的數據、公式和審議過程，而不是每次都說視財政狀況，你如果要說視財政狀況，我跟你說，我們的財政狀況是每年越來越好，如果要這樣講的話，不是嗎？","quality":0.734},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:28.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:31.807000+08:00","text":"你只有一直笑，這是一個很嚴肅的問題。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:32.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:40.093000+08:00","text":"我的意思就是你們要去研議一個可以量化的基準，不然你說總預算越來越好，財政、經濟一直發展，國家越來越強，人家會問：那你的薪水呢？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:44.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:23:45.019000+08:00","text":"一針就馬上戳到痛點。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:23:45.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:02.674000+08:00","text":"在我們這個政府的治理效能裡面，該給公務人員的部分，年金改革是一回事，你說如果不進行年金改革到最後就會破產，大家就想辦法來做改革，因為有人受到衝擊，已經造成民怨了。","quality":0.689},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:02.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:04.235000+08:00","text":"但是對於公務人員的照顧，尤其是以這部分來講，我反而認為這是可以說理的，該照顧人家還是要給人家照顧。","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:04.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:37.467000+08:00","text":"再來，你們在開始的時候有說要看能不能把受僱者代表納入審議，你們總處在去年10月有表示在法制化以後，新的諮詢委員會要納入兩成的基層代表，這個方向你會改變嗎？","quality":0.686},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:37.467000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:38.467000+08:00","text":"簽到行政院以後，就是照這個方向了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:37.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:24:59.263000+08:00","text":"所以這是你們整個行政體系的問題，讓整個公務人員待遇的審議要有受僱者代表的席次，因為他們最了解，讓他們進入這個決策圈，也可以展現政府積極改善受僱者待遇的態度，人事長，我覺得你應該要勇於去表達這個立場。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:24:59.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:25:00.965000+08:00","text":"因為後面還有委員要質詢，我不敢耽誤太多時間，我就問最後一個問題，我們是不是有可能來放寬國民旅遊卡？","quality":0.489},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:25:00.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:25:01.926000+08:00","text":"現在為什麼要給公務人員國民旅遊卡？","quality":0.312},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:25:01.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:25:25.666000+08:00","text":"就是因為公務人員很辛苦，讓他們去放鬆一下，讓他們去旅遊，其實都是希望他們身心健康嘛！","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:25:27.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:25:32.331000+08:00","text":"鼓勵他們去運動也是一個讓他們身心健康很好的方式，不是只有旅遊啊！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:25:32.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:25:37.795000+08:00","text":"所以有沒有可能放寬範圍？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:25:38.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:25:49.743000+08:00","text":"去年本席曾經向人事長爭取公務人員健康檢查補助費用的部分，你說會檢討跟調整，如果是從運動的角度，你現在把中央舉辦基層運動大會這部分都刪掉了，其實那是好事，那有點類似大拜拜啦！","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:25:49.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:08.434000+08:00","text":"滿了10年以後，政府鼓勵公務人員去運動，我覺得這是好事情，如果他們要從事運動，你就降低他們運動的成本，所以是不是可以放寬國民旅遊卡的使用範圍？","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:08.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:09.855000+08:00","text":"以前是只有限定旅遊而已，後來再開放到可以去購券、買特約商店的商品，是不是可以再放寬？","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:28.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:34.632000+08:00","text":"跟運動中心或民營的健身房建立一個特約的關係？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:35.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:44.758000+08:00","text":"觀光可以促進公務人員身心的健康，讓他們休息，去運動也是一件好事，範圍再放寬一點，人事長，你的看法怎麼樣？","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:26:46.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:26:59.689000+08:00","text":"我非常支持召委的看法，除了運動以外，我們也把文化的部分納進來，因為我覺得身心靈健康這一塊，一方面四肢要健全，文化的涵養也要夠啦！","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:27:00.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:27:01.390000+08:00","text":"那些都有加進來。是啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:27:01.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:27:09.957000+08:00","text":"譬如說，我如果去參加鐵人三項或自由車，我也可以來抵用報名費，這是一件很好的事情啊！","quality":0.703},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:27:10.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:27:27.845000+08:00","text":"你看教育委員會的范雲委員一直在點頭，人家當過教授，他一直在點頭，因為這是一個好的方向，照顧公務人員不是只有提升福利，提升福利是好事，為了促進他們的健康，叫他們去觀光是好事，叫他們去運動也是好事喔！","quality":0.798},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:27:28.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:27:46.078000+08:00","text":"而且我們去年成立了運動部，由政府帶頭，發展運動、培養全民運動的風氣，運動也沒有分公務人員、種田的人，就是全民大家一起來嘛！","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:27:46.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:27:53.383000+08:00","text":"公務人員的部分，我覺得照顧全體公務人員在職場的適應也是一種福利的提升，人事長，這個沒有問題嘛？","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:27:53.383000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:27:56.569000+08:00","text":"我們就放寬啦！","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-25T10:27:56.569000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:27:59.755000+08:00","text":"我們會朝那個方向。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-25T10:27:59.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T10:27:59.896000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝人事長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T10:28:00.396000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:28:06.396000+08:00","text":"謝謝莊瑞雄召委的質詢，我真的很支持擴大到運動。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T10:28:06.696000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:28:08.696000+08:00","text":"謝謝人事長，請回。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T10:28:08.996000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T10:28:12.138857+08:00","text":"下一位請許宇甄委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}