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麻煩請代理主委好 我請陳代理主委葉國麟好代理主委好首先我要表達我是覺得蠻遺憾的在1月底那時候立法院三讀通過的衛廣法被行政院直接不附屬當時大家其實也討論得蠻熱烈的在院會也都有表達意見我記得最後一次投票民進黨好像也沒有投反對票"},{"start":32.333,"end":53.009,"text":"結果最後行政院就可以直接不附屬那以後在立法院好像也不太需要討論了反正只要民進黨不喜歡的法案那節省時間啦 最後行政院就不要附屬就好了嘛我是覺得很遺憾啦那不附屬的理由我也覺得很怪我想先確定一下這個行政院不附屬NCC有給意見嗎"},{"start":54.688,"end":66.879,"text":"就是幕僚作業階段就是我們有把交委會討論的意見我有提供給行政院長你是提供反對意見還是跟他說可以不附屬的理由你是提供什麼就是在交委會討論的時候對18條19條我們的保留意見"},{"start":69.582,"end":84.909,"text":"你們的反對意見給他嘛對不對所以最後他確定不附屬是他的決定你們沒有建議他不附屬沒有那他的不附屬的理由我覺得非常奇怪啦我不知道主委你能不能認同他的不附屬理由我們那個條文通過衛廣法"},{"start":87.39,"end":110.948,"text":"那個核心精神是說如果電視台它不以換照但是它提出行政救濟那在行政訴訟之前執照仍然有效那為什麼會訂這個條文它也不完全是針對中天嘛那是因為從中天這個個案可以看到如果一個政府機關要殘害新聞自由要關掉一家電視台是這麼的容易"},{"start":112.549,"end":139.458,"text":"當時關中天的理由說多次違規內控機制失靈結果後來中天提起行政訴訟很多判中天要罰還的部分通通被法院打臉這個之前我們都詢問多次當時我記得有一次代理主委講在貴機關被法院打臉的機率是很低的整體來說是很低唯獨中天案一直被法院打臉所以很明顯這就是針對中天"},{"start":140.868,"end":159.82,"text":"那中天現在怎麼辦呢雖然不斷的很多官司還他清白不該罰的法院還他清白可是他現在已經沒有辦法在新聞頻道上展現他的新聞自由這就是對新聞自由最大的殘害那也因為有這個個案所以當時立法院才會想要修衛廣法"},{"start":160.56,"end":177.638,"text":"他不見得是適用中天啊也有可能另外一家電視台他扮演第四權當局不喜歡就用各種方式裁罰他然後再用他多次違規理由不予換照那一個好好的新聞台就這樣沒有啦所以才會提出這個修法嘛當初是"},{"start":178.579,"end":200.713,"text":"因為這個原因嘛所以他如果打行政救濟像中天現在假設當時我們的法律是在中天不予換照之前就已經通過的話他現在還可以再繼續發揮他的新聞自由啊然後他官司不斷的勝訴勝訴勝訴不斷的還他清白他沒有受到任何的損害啊所以很遺憾啦我想問一下代理主委喔這個行政院當時說"},{"start":203.424,"end":228.505,"text":"這個衛廣法他不附屬理由是無視評位的稀缺性對於新聞頻道創造不合理差別待遇他講的到底是什麼意思啊是指說那案官的評位那個評位在草案修正條例18、19條如果通過公佈施行的話會就現有的頻道已經在那個評位的頁子對他也是沒有啊施制性的保護原則不是啊這跟那什麼原因我現在隨便亂講比如說有一個"},{"start":229.326,"end":249.024,"text":"然後不要舉現在的不然大家會覺得我在針對哪一個100台好了我不知道哪一台啦100台你們認為他不該換照但是他提起行政救濟按照新法執照依然有效那請問一下他排擠了什麼稀缺性啊而且現在數位匯流了頻道什麼稀缺性啊"},{"start":249.905,"end":274.224,"text":"你現在是遠古時代喔你現在是老三台時代是不是根本沒報告那個我們就對於委員所舉的100平位的ABC頻道假設他先被駁換到這個就是隨便我跟你講這就隨便找理由啦那大家都知道本來我們的法律對於新聞自由就是比較寬帶嘛譬如說今天有一個新聞或記者他報導一件事情他寫錯了"},{"start":275.663,"end":298.929,"text":"那他是不是一定會被構成誹謗不一定嘛對不對因為你要看他是不是惡意的嘛明知錯誤而故意報導嘛對吧為什麼對於新聞媒體就是不一樣一般人可以這樣嗎一般人對一般人如果說你隨便亂講一件事情講錯了很可能就被告誹謗啊但是新聞媒體不一定啊他只要善盡查盡責任他是善意的即便是他報導錯"},{"start":300.109,"end":324.069,"text":"我們他依然不構成誹謗罪原因是什麼原因是我們要高度的保障新聞自由給第四權充分的空間這個不是只有台灣是主張這樣美國也是這樣啊所以美國的憲法第一修正案把新聞自由寫在憲法第一修正案裡面啊所以你今天如果看待新聞自由不是用你們這種什麼頻道稀缺性什麼什麼這種東西看待啦"},{"start":324.569,"end":342.389,"text":"但是指說那具有評判已經替代他了要強制他離開回來那但是但是我現在講的對但是我現在講說比如說就以一家新聞台來講比如說中天如果那時候是修法通過是在這個他被不予換照的時候是是我們通過那個法律的期間的話假設啦"},{"start":343.47,"end":366.985,"text":"他沒有排擠掉什麼啊他就是在他原來的評位繼續啊可是這段期間假設已經另外一個頻道已經進入那些那是市場機制嘛這個就是系統業者他喜歡擺誰就擺誰你今天政府你可以強迫你政府可以強迫說這家電視台我叫他離開我硬要塞這個進去嗎好像可以啦好像可以因為我那時候好像52台空出來的時候政府好像"},{"start":367.785,"end":383.006,"text":"但是條文就寫成說AZ有義務啊這個就違反了這個商業機制運作我現在是針對說如果說他提起行政救濟然後他的執照依然有效這件事情那你覺得這個合理嗎"},{"start":384.455,"end":408.066,"text":"所以你覺得另外一個說一定要他回覆那個你覺得是違憲但是你認為你認為說如果說他在提起行政救濟然後執照依然有效的情況下你認為可以嗎是不是沒關係那主委我可以因為那個條文裡面有幾個內容嘛你認為比如AB內容B內容你認為違憲不合理要不附屬那A內容你認為合理那我們可以再修法啊"},{"start":408.871,"end":433.212,"text":"所以你認為A可以是不是不是 另外一部分其實那條文裡頭有講到說這個他就是在什麼那個行政判決確定前他可以繼續營運等等之類的你覺得怎麼可以現行的行政訴訟法還有機制已經有了其實不需要這樣子哪有 這個機制哪有行政訴訟法是有這個定站胎的那如果是這樣中天當時就不需要從52台離開啦"},{"start":434.733,"end":459.483,"text":"他在課級那個上述階段其實那他為什麼要從52台離開所以就是沒有這個機制才必須要從52台離開如果有這個機制為什麼要從52台離開他執照依然有效啊沒關係 主委至少從剛才對答裡面我知道行政院不附屬你的理由是說他不能無緣無故恢復啦不然假設已經有52在那邊的話他不能排擠掉人家啦你覺得這個你覺得你有保留啦"},{"start":460.023,"end":482.692,"text":"但是呢你覺得如果一家電視台他被不以換照但是他提起行政訴訟他依然執照依然有效你人偽是OK的啦只是你說現行機制有但現行機制沒有不過沒關係你的態度是這樣那我覺得我們還可以繼續朝你你講的方向去修法啦但我也希望說你跟行政院建議不要動不動用不附屬的方式然後好像他不喜歡就直接不附屬民主國家沒有這樣子的啦好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T11:58:28.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:58:29.886000+08:00","text":"主席好，麻煩請代理主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T11:58:30.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:58:31.187000+08:00","text":"好，請陳代理主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T11:58:36.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:58:37.028000+08:00","text":"葉委員好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T11:58:37.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:58:37.688000+08:00","text":"代理主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T11:58:38.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:59:06.741000+08:00","text":"首先我要表達，我是覺得蠻遺憾的，在1月底那時候立法院三讀通過的衛廣法，被行政院直接不副署，當時大家其實也討論蠻熱烈的，在院會也都有表達意見，我記得最後一次投票，民進黨好像也沒有投反對票，結果最後行政院就可以直接不副署，那以後在立法院好像也不太需要討論，反正只要民進黨不喜歡的法案，節省時間，最後行政院不要副署就好了嘛！","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T11:59:07.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:59:08.442000+08:00","text":"我是覺得很遺憾。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T11:59:10.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:59:17.009000+08:00","text":"不副署的理由，我也覺得很怪，我想先確定一下，行政院不副署，NCC有給意見嗎？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T11:59:18.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:59:23.372000+08:00","text":"在幕僚作業階段我們把交委會討論的意見提供給行政院。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T11:59:23.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:59:27.596000+08:00","text":"你們是提供反對意見，還是跟他說可以不副署的理由？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T11:59:27.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:59:29.038000+08:00","text":"你們是提供什麼？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T11:59:29.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:59:30.879000+08:00","text":"就是在交委會討論的時候，我們對第十八條、第十九條的保留意見。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T11:59:33.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:59:35.143000+08:00","text":"你們的反對意見給他嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T11:59:35.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:59:35.843000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T11:59:35.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T11:59:41.045000+08:00","text":"所以最後他確定不副署是他的決定，你們沒有建議他不副署？沒有。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T11:59:42.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:00:01.098000+08:00","text":"他不副署的理由，我覺得非常奇怪，我不知道主委你能不能認同他不副署的理由，衛廣法通過條文的核心精神是說，如果電視臺不予換照，但是它提出行政救濟，在行政訴訟之前執照仍然有效。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:00:02.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:00:03.259000+08:00","text":"為什麼會訂這個條文？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:00:03.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:00:14.928000+08:00","text":"它也不完全是針對中天，那是因為從中天這個個案可以看到，如果一個政府機關要殘害新聞自由、要關掉一家電視臺是這麼的容易！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:00:16.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:00:30.174000+08:00","text":"當時關中天的理由說是多次違規、內控機制失靈，結果後來中天提起行政訴訟，很多判中天要罰鍰的部分統統被法院打臉，這個之前我們都詢答多次了。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:00:30.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:00:43.058000+08:00","text":"我記得有一次代理主委講貴機關被法院打臉的機率是很低的，整體來說是很低，唯獨中天案一直被法院打臉，所以很明顯嘛！","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:00:43.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:00:43.438000+08:00","text":"這就是針對中天！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:00:45.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:00:46.509000+08:00","text":"中天現在怎麼辦呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:00:47.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:00:59.057000+08:00","text":"雖然不斷很多官司還它清白，不該罰的法院還它清白，可是它現在已經沒有辦法在新聞頻道上展現它的新聞自由，這就是對新聞自由最大的殘害！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:01:00.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:01:05.821000+08:00","text":"也因為有這個個案，所以當時立法院才會想要修衛廣法，這不見得只適用中天啊！","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:01:06.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:01:15.972000+08:00","text":"也有可能另外一家電視臺扮演第四權，當局不喜歡就用各種方式裁罰它，然後再用它多次違規理由不予換照！","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:01:17.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:01:19.095000+08:00","text":"一個好好的新聞臺就這樣沒有啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:01:19.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:01:21.078000+08:00","text":"所以才會提出這個修法嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:01:21.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:01:23.500000+08:00","text":"當初是因為這個原因嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:01:24.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:01:34.987000+08:00","text":"它如果打行政救濟，像中天，假設當時我們的法律是在中天不予換照之前就已經通過的話，它現在還可以再繼續發揮它的新聞自由啊！","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:01:35.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:01:40.350000+08:00","text":"然後官司不斷勝訴、勝訴、勝訴，不斷地還它清白，它沒有受到任何損害啊！","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:01:41.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:01:54.010000+08:00","text":"很遺憾，我想問一下代理主委，行政院當時說不副署衛廣法的理由是無視頻位資源的稀缺性，對於新聞頻道創造不合理的差別待遇；這講的到底是什麼意思？","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:01:54.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:02:09.143000+08:00","text":"是說案關頻位，如果修正草案第十八條、第十九條通過公布施行的話，對已經在那些頻位的業者而言是失去信賴保護原則。","quality":0.52},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:02:09.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:02:09.903000+08:00","text":"不是啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:02:10.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:02:25.517000+08:00","text":"我現在隨便亂講，但不要說現在的，不然大家會覺得我在針對某一個，比如100台好了，我不知道這是哪一台，你們認為它不應該換照，但是它提起行政救濟，按照新法，執照依然有效！","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:02:26.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:02:29.001000+08:00","text":"請問一下，它排擠了什麼稀缺性？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:02:29.001000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T12:02:30.582000+08:00","text":"它是指……假設……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:02:30.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:02:32.844000+08:00","text":"而且現在數位匯流了，頻道有什麼稀缺性？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:02:33.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:02:34.926000+08:00","text":"你現在是遠古時代喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:02:35.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:02:36.507000+08:00","text":"你現在是老三台時代是不是？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:02:37.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:02:44.554000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，對於委員所舉的100頻位的ABC頻道，假設它被不換照……","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:02:45.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:02:47.316000+08:00","text":"我跟你說，這就是隨便找理由啦！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:02:48.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:03:02.364000+08:00","text":"大家都知道本來我們的法律對於新聞自由就是比較寬待，譬如說今天有一個新聞或記者報導一件事情寫錯了，那是不是一定會被構成誹謗？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:03:02.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:03:02.704000+08:00","text":"不一定嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:03:02.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:03:03.624000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:03:03.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:03:07.825000+08:00","text":"因為要看是不是惡意的、明知錯誤而故意報導，對吧？對。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:03:09.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:03:11.046000+08:00","text":"為什麼對於新聞媒體不一樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:03:11.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:03:12.366000+08:00","text":"一般人可以這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:03:12.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:03:16.727000+08:00","text":"一般人如果隨便亂講一件事情、講錯了，很可能就被告誹謗啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:03:17.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:03:27.512000+08:00","text":"但是新聞媒體不一定，它只要善盡查證責任，它是善意的，即便是報導錯，依然不構成誹謗罪，原因是什麼？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:03:27.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:03:35.258000+08:00","text":"原因是我們要高度保障新聞自由，給第四權充分的空間，這個不是只有臺灣這樣主張，美國也是這樣啊！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:03:35.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:03:48.049000+08:00","text":"所以美國的憲法第一修正案，把新聞自由寫在憲法第一修正案裡面，所以今天看待新聞自由不是用你們這種什麼頻道稀缺性這種東西去看待啦！","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:03:48.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:03:53.174000+08:00","text":"就是指既有頻位已經替代它了，要強制它離開，回來……是商業機制。","quality":0.577},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:03:53.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:04:11.412000+08:00","text":"但我現在講的就是以一家新聞臺來講，比如中天，如果那個時候修法通過了，就是它被不予換照的時候是在我們通過那個法律的期間的話，假設啦，它沒有排擠掉什麼，就是在它原來的頻位繼續啊！","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:04:12.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:04:15.435000+08:00","text":"對，假設這段期間另外一個頻道已經進入……","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:04:15.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:04:26.902000+08:00","text":"這就是市場機制，這個就是系統業者喜歡擺誰就擺誰，今天政府可以強迫要這家電視臺離開，然後硬要塞另外一個進去嗎？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:04:26.902000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T12:04:27.902000+08:00","text":"就是不行！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:04:26.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:04:27.482000+08:00","text":"你們好像可以啦！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:04:28.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:04:30.965000+08:00","text":"那個時候好像52台空出來，政府好像就……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:04:31.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:04:38.555000+08:00","text":"但是條文又說NCC有義務啊，這個就違反商業機制的運作。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:04:39.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:04:47.006000+08:00","text":"我現在是針對如果它提起行政救濟，然後它的執照依然有效這件事情，那你覺得這個合理嗎？這……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:04:48.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:01.041000+08:00","text":"所以你覺得另外那個一定要它回復是違憲，但是你認為如果它在提起行政救濟，然後執照依然有效的情況下，你認為可以嘛，是不是？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:02.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:12.046000+08:00","text":"主委，因為那個條文裡面有幾個內容，比如說A、B內容，你認為B內容違憲、不合理，所以不副署；但認為A內容合理，那我們可以再修法啊！另外……","quality":0.772},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:12.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:14.152000+08:00","text":"所以你認為A可以是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:14.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:24.421000+08:00","text":"不是，另外一部分是條文裡頭有說到在行政判決確定前可以繼續營運等等之類的……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:25.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:25.522000+08:00","text":"你覺得可不可以？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:26.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:26.943000+08:00","text":"其實在現行的行政訴訟法……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:26.943000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:28.104000+08:00","text":"你覺得合不合理？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:28.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:30.846000+08:00","text":"那個機制已經有了，其實不需要這樣子！哪有？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:31.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:31.907000+08:00","text":"這個機制哪有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:32.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:34.089000+08:00","text":"行政訴訟法是有這個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:35.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:37.192000+08:00","text":"如果是這樣，中天當時就不需要從52台離開啦！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:38.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:41.554000+08:00","text":"它在上訴階段其實……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:42.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:43.195000+08:00","text":"它為什麼要從52台離開？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:43.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:49.517000+08:00","text":"就是因為沒有這個機制才必須要從52台離開，如果有這個機制，為什麼要從52台離開？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:50.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:05:50.778000+08:00","text":"執照依然有效啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:05:51.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:06:03.283000+08:00","text":"沒關係，主委，至少從跟你對答裡面我知道，對於行政院不副署，你的理由是它不能無緣無故恢復，不然假設已經有52台在那邊的話，它不能排擠掉人家，你覺得這個你有保留……","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:06:03.283000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T12:06:04.283000+08:00","text":"這是主要原因之一。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:06:04.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:06:13.887000+08:00","text":"但是你覺得一家電視臺被不予換照，它提起行政訴訟，它的執照依然有效，你認為是OK的，你說現行機制有，但現行機制沒有！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:06:14.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:06:18.649000+08:00","text":"不過沒關係，你的態度是這樣，我覺得我們還可以繼續朝你所講的方向去修法。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-25T12:06:19.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T12:06:26.692000+08:00","text":"但我也希望你跟行政院建議，不要動不動用不副署的方式，好像它不喜歡就直接不副署，民主國家沒有這樣子啦！謝謝。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-03-25T12:06:27.192000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T12:06:28.334857+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T12:06:28.634857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T12:06:33.206286+08:00","text":"謝謝葉元之委員發言，謝謝陳代理主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T12:06:33.506286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T12:06:38.363429+08:00","text":"接下來請蘇清泉，蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T12:06:38.663429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T12:06:43.520571+08:00","text":"接下來請林楚茵委員，林楚茵、林楚茵不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T12:06:43.820571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T12:06:48.677714+08:00","text":"接下來請羅明才，羅明才、羅明才委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T12:06:48.977714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T12:06:52.120571+08:00","text":"接下來請王鴻薇委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}