{"error":false,"id":["167944"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167944,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167944","日期":"2026-03-26","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-03-26T09:14:36+08:00","結束時間":"2026-03-26T09:27:28+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:52","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/62ea4221ea272c4efb441f748b9bf5e3c30e9bbc489b48f6ec4551788d53590e4bf6fd8005bdee605ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:14:36 - 09:27:28","會議時間":"2026-03-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部長及勞動部部長就「在職照顧者支持體系是否完善、長照3.0服務輸送與長照安排假評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【3月25日及26日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":1.3134687500000002,"end":1.95471875,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":9.902843750000002,"end":13.480343750000003,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":13.800968750000003,"end":16.29846875,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":19.504718750000002,"end":37.05471875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":37.74659375,"end":45.66096875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":46.16721875,"end":47.01096875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":47.12909375,"end":52.93409375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":53.37284375,"end":60.78096875000001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":61.135343750000004,"end":64.29096875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":64.78034375,"end":70.06221875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":70.48409375,"end":91.40909375000001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":91.44284375000001,"end":92.16846875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":93.09659375000001,"end":93.94034375000001,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":95.52659375,"end":103.15409375,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":103.27221875000001,"end":103.32284375,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":103.32284375,"end":103.37346875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":103.37346875,"end":103.39034375,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":103.39034375,"end":110.83221875000001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":103.44096875000001,"end":103.82909375000001,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":108.25034375000001,"end":108.65534375,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":109.61721875,"end":113.02596875,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":113.02596875,"end":146.40471875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":113.17784375000001,"end":113.29596875,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":146.99534375000002,"end":170.72159375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":170.80596875,"end":218.86596875,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":201.73784375000002,"end":203.81346875000003,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":217.26284375,"end":222.67971875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":223.50659375,"end":268.66409375,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":229.42971875,"end":229.78409375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":241.37721875000003,"end":241.51221875000002,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":241.73159375,"end":241.84971875000002,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":250.05096875,"end":250.52346875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":269.79471875,"end":289.62284375,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":289.57221875,"end":311.71221875000003,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":311.83034375,"end":313.80471875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":314.07471875000005,"end":326.03909375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":326.49471875,"end":336.60284375000003,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":337.14284375,"end":344.09534375000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":344.39909375,"end":349.37721875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":349.76534375,"end":364.07534375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":364.41284375000004,"end":366.15096875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":366.70784375000005,"end":371.33159375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":372.15846875,"end":372.68159375000005,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":373.08659375,"end":377.98034375000003,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":378.68909375000004,"end":396.88034375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":397.18409375000005,"end":400.23846875000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":400.59284375000004,"end":402.82034375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":403.54596875000004,"end":437.22846875000005,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":404.84534375000004,"end":405.09846875000005,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":426.98534375,"end":430.49534375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":435.03471875,"end":435.27096875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":437.39721875000004,"end":437.63346875,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":437.63346875,"end":440.87346875000003,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":439.47284375000004,"end":439.64159375,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":440.87346875000003,"end":460.83659375,"speaker_score":0.808},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":441.22784375000003,"end":442.45971875000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":460.00971875000005,"end":465.62909375000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":466.13534375,"end":503.36159375000005,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":503.69909375000003,"end":511.84971875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":512.15346875,"end":520.87784375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":521.14784375,"end":529.5515937499999,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":530.42909375,"end":547.05096875,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":546.35909375,"end":549.97034375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":549.4978437500001,"end":567.6215937500001,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":565.34346875,"end":565.69784375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":567.72284375,"end":568.1953437500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":568.71846875,"end":586.7747187500001,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":587.28096875,"end":588.22596875,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":589.1203437500001,"end":600.9834687499999,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":601.15221875,"end":609.9609687500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":610.16346875,"end":615.34409375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":615.5972187500001,"end":616.7109687500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":617.1159687500001,"end":634.1428437500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":634.1428437500001,"end":643.1709687499999,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":634.1597187500001,"end":634.4465937500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":643.5759687500001,"end":658.13909375,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":658.69596875,"end":660.26534375,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":661.04159375,"end":662.91471875,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":663.6572187500001,"end":666.9140937500001,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":667.36971875,"end":693.4753437500001,"speaker_score":0.897},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":693.94784375,"end":701.55846875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":701.84534375,"end":722.26409375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":722.5847187500001,"end":727.1072187500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":727.5459687500002,"end":747.52596875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":749.8884687500001,"end":751.9978437500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":752.16659375,"end":757.53284375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":757.8703437500001,"end":763.6753437500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":765.0928437500002,"end":772.9734687499999,"speaker_score":0.808}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.69,"end":15.959,"text":"主席 麻煩我們的衛福部長跟勞動部部長好 請兩位部長 石部長 洪部長"},{"start":19.777,"end":36.498,"text":"委員長兩位部長早我想應該很難得可以同時邀請到兩位部長來備詢這會期我當然召委那還要拜託兩位部長一起來努力攝服跟兒少跟勞動的相關的政策昨天安排兒少全法的詢答今天安排長照假"},{"start":37.839,"end":57.552,"text":"因為我很清楚的告訴大家 政府的職責就是要顧小 要顧老 也要顧全民 更是我攝護跟兒少立委的責任從上任來就一直在爭取 因為現在人晚婚幾乎都會走入到一個叫夾心世代 像我媽媽38歲生我 我 38歲生我女兒"},{"start":61.214,"end":80.891,"text":"那當我孩子四歲的時候的確現在勞動部有育嬰作為一個彈性的育嬰留庭或者是做後來彈性這樣可是還少了一端啊當我媽媽八十歲我小孩四歲的時候我兩端都要處理的時候你給我一方我卻沒有給我另外一方所以就要問勞動部和我們的衛福部首先我先衛福部"},{"start":82.913,"end":92.128,"text":"因為我去年在質詢的時候我就提到說要求兩部會要提供評估報告到現在想問石部長評估在哪裡到底那個需求是多少需求"},{"start":96.419,"end":113.234,"text":"我再瞭解一下再跟委員說明您說的就是需要有需要請長照的安排假的人到底有多少長照的照顧假的需求是"},{"start":115.155,"end":142.244,"text":"因為這件事情從來就不只是制度的設計而是超高齡社會下每一個家庭正在面對的現實我上週開記者會的都已經也提過了我想直接告訴兩位部長要判斷長照的一個安排價有沒有必要其實不用這麼複雜我們直接看數據這是勞動部的一個114年的工作職場當中就業平均概況的一個調查超過六成的勞工曾因為長期照顧壓力考慮離職"},{"start":144.505,"end":170.334,"text":"那我們又希望 總統政策希望不要照顧最好不要因為照顧而離職所以同時有76.2%的勞工表示即使無薪也需要長照安排假就是說他不用要錢來貼補可是他就是有這個需求這代表需求已經很明確而且這應該發生請問兩位部長這個數據足夠支持你們推動長照安排假嗎"},{"start":171.995,"end":192.646,"text":"我想這個我們從幾個數據來看那第一個就是說剛剛在我的報告裡面也大概提到如果是住院新發生個案要接後端的長照服務那麼我們過去當然很長50幾天那現在大概是平均3.66天所以這個有一個空窗那第二個呢"},{"start":193.166,"end":220.684,"text":"如果是在社區裡面直接申請的不是因為住院在社區裡面要申請的那麼平均大概是10天重數大概是5天所以這裡也有一個空窗所以這個空窗當然就必須由家屬自己來擔負這個空窗級的長照的照顧那確實我覺得是可以來考慮這樣的一個資助那我不知道洪部長這邊這是你們的數據應該很明確的"},{"start":223.907,"end":246.724,"text":"其實我們對於像這個照顧不離職為目標的政策我想我們當然都很願意來思考那的確在針對長照安排假的部分的話其實我們也在跟衛福部討論因為現在長照3.0上路嘛那長照3.0上路以後過去其實大家會有些部分這個"},{"start":248.385,"end":267.506,"text":"可能大家想說像痛點就是說哪些地方會有這個空窗的部分其實目前在長照三年上路以後會縮短到什麼程度那這個在這個目前整體的長照制度下面的這個政策的需求可能我自己我自己認為可以再進行一輪的這個"},{"start":269.881,"end":289.459,"text":"制度上路以後的評估那才比較能夠把需求掌握住然後來評估那這個長照相關的價別啦他的必要性跟可行性我覺得他可能會經過一個這樣子程序的討論那所以我們願意在這個程序之下來做綜合的思考"},{"start":289.799,"end":306.678,"text":"我想勞動部應該非常知道現在缺工婦女勞參率低如果照顧離職的話可能會雪上加霜而且現在問題是成本事實上沒有消失而且被轉嫁出去勞工如果用離職來承擔企業用人力流失來承擔家庭用健康跟時間來承擔"},{"start":308.035,"end":324.597,"text":"像部長剛才祝我們身體健康當然我們覺得家庭的負擔很重的時候就很難最後整體的社會在用生產力下降跟稅收減少來承擔更具體的來看的話切為了一個員工要離職的話可能要付出約1.5倍的"},{"start":326.579,"end":350.868,"text":"年薪的重置成本 因為要重新訓練人所以紅部長這些重置成本最後會是由來誰來解決一定是你勞動部要想辦法所以為什麼不去解決這個根本呢所以相對的話想問 石部長像我相信你們大家也會支持可是前段的問題不能解決的話就留一堆不能到最後來留一堆問題"},{"start":351.601,"end":369.41,"text":"最後家庭照顧者最後又變成負擔很大因為他一個人在家裡去照顧那樣所以你的其他服務的確到長照3.0時間有算縮短了可是從申請到銜接到所謂的適應事實上是要有些時間的所以就來問"},{"start":372.191,"end":399.914,"text":"到底對象是誰 誰能申請 需要多少錢有沒有裁員 還有事業單位會不會支持 所以我們就來看數據我們現在主要是想爭取的事實上是能不能新手 因為的確如果事實上是重新再找的話當然還好 可是新手的話衛福部的估計一年大概2到3萬人會使用到 所以市部長我們先針對初次有長照需求的給予"},{"start":400.935,"end":421.881,"text":"協助這個方向你支持嗎跟委員說明當然我們現在盡可能的去增加他申請的方便性包含線上申請等等但是因為第一次我們照專需要評估的時候就是長照需求評估的時候第一次因為我們還有半年再評估"},{"start":422.381,"end":436.837,"text":"所以第一次評估的時候一定是要有這個照顧者也就是家屬像你的申請要四天你的選擇要七天那麼以目前來講一年大概新申請長照第一次初評估的這個大概在三萬多人左右"},{"start":437.698,"end":465.357,"text":"所以那我只要問你你支持這樣的一個方向嗎我支持就是以第一次的因為第一次他需要要導入這個長照的服務第一次進入這個系統第二個呢他也需要像委員講的這個適應所以如果是先限縮在這個第一次申請的我覺得這個是可行性應該要去考慮啦如果我們用初次有需求這兩三萬人去做"},{"start":466.378,"end":485.795,"text":"計算的話我也幫部長算好了以平均薪資六成的薪資的話大概整體成本大概9到10億而如果我們用投保薪資的六成薪的話那整體估計預算大概6.4億如果我們用育嬰留庭的規模跟方式的話用投保薪資八成薪算的話大概8.6億所以我們用這個規模來試辦的話這筆錢對我們的勞動部應該不難把就業保險基金"},{"start":493.462,"end":514.907,"text":"是不是可以支應呢因為我們看到的是首先運利遊艇也就是用救保來做處理有潛力可循第二不要讓勞工因為照顧而離職我認為絕對符合就業保險法的一個精神第三就業保險法裁員相對是穩定的去年救保應濟的那個保險費是330億實際給付的事實上是250億那帳面上的剩餘大概80億"},{"start":521.429,"end":527.738,"text":"也都能因為有剩餘所以依法撥補給就業安定基金40億所以增加這條10億的計畫應該不是難事吧"},{"start":530.455,"end":556.783,"text":"我跟文說明我還是分兩個部分第一個部分就是說對於長照相關的價別那要不要來規劃實施我覺得這部分我想我們是可以綜合思考的可是對於裁員的部分我還是要說因為那的確要判修法我這邊已經有法案提出來因為暈流亭的津貼其實是社會保險救保是社會保險的法定的紀錄"},{"start":558.143,"end":566.703,"text":"所以如果要把這個就是說因為舊保基本上比較處理的是跟留庭相關的比較不是處理個別的價別"},{"start":568.769,"end":586.145,"text":"那現在在處理的這個運營留庭的這個一日申請他其實也還是來自一個留庭的制度所以如果要從留庭的角度的話那他可能這個在目前的這個法規的框架裡面他其實並不是法定的給付的項目那如果要把它修進去的話那的確那可能也還要檢討費率的問題"},{"start":589.158,"end":603.885,"text":"我會問部長也可以去考慮說到底有什麼樣的資助這個因為去年進入到超高齡社會然後加上台灣為什麼少子化晚婚事實上也是一個原因所在所以夾心世代是存在的如果不去解決的話"},{"start":604.665,"end":633.278,"text":"那我覺得照顧離職這一塊就永遠沒解然後你的缺工的問題這個事實上是環環相扣而且再來事業單位也是支持的因為我們知道政策要推行明天跟企業一定要能夠協助在勞動部同一份調查其實也說得很明白將近有四成的事業單位是支持有這個價別而且逐年上升不支持的比率大幅下降所以這個政策不只是我們的受僱者支持僱主支持的也越來越多所以就剩政府看"},{"start":633.638,"end":662.676,"text":"要不要我還是因為我其實是希望這個議題可以正向討論是那可是所以這裡面第一個還是要先經過需求評估就是說到底有多少包括人有多少人需要然後哪些情境需要那需要的這個時間長短大概多少這才有辦法進入到底經費上面的思考那經費上的思考經費的尺度也會經費上的尺度也會來去思考說那不同的財源的適配性"},{"start":663.68,"end":692.758,"text":"因為經費尺度的差別會跟你裁員哪些比較適合會有關係所以我的意思說我們可以正向的來做很多的討論可是我覺得可能前面還是必須要先從需求的理解跟評估這邊開始來進行那剛才講說因為剛剛其中有一張講到舊保其實並不是純粹這個保費的盈餘就是80億其實裡面大概去年的保費的收支的盈餘的話大概是40億"},{"start":694.452,"end":711.333,"text":"不過我在這邊最後還是期待因為我剛剛講說這個已經是不可迴避的我們的政府的責任因為為什麼我們就是晚婚跟高齡化所以我覺得請勞動部跟衛福部是不是在5月1號也就勞動前提出我們的長照安排"},{"start":711.894,"end":726.312,"text":"假的事辦計畫的初步來運作 而且方案中當然要納入到薪資貼補的那個機制的一個設計 讓勞工在照顧初期能夠真正的請得起假 留得住工作 否則的話我覺得在勞"},{"start":727.608,"end":745.492,"text":"我們的照顧離職這個問題實際上是沒有解決的我們的缺工問題也沒辦法解決所以法案提出之後也請邀請我們的民間團體跟專家學者跟相關利害關係人來召喚示範計畫延伸計畫來針對於我們的適用對象薪資貼補的比例企業負擔的方式跟財務來進行完整的討論可以嗎好先做討論我想我知道洪部長剛剛提的有些問題有一些需要解決的可是我覺得這已經是不可迴避的"},{"start":757.932,"end":772.129,"text":"所以希望我們兩部長能夠一起促成在勞動節的時候給勞工一個保障好 謝謝好 謝謝任少偉的發言謝謝兩位部長的應答下一位我們請陳金輝委員發言"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:14:37.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:14:49.857000+08:00","text":"主席，麻煩請衛福部部長跟勞動部部長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T09:14:49.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:14:51.959000+08:00","text":"好，請石部長、洪部長兩位部長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-26T09:14:55.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:14:56.939000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:14:56.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:14:57.479000+08:00","text":"兩位部長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:14:58.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:15:09.534000+08:00","text":"今天很難得可以同時邀請到兩位部長來備詢，這會期我擔任召委，還要拜託兩位部長一起來努力推動社福、兒少跟勞動的相關政策。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:15:09.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:15:21.204000+08:00","text":"昨天安排兒少權法的詢答，今天安排長照假，因為我要很清楚地告訴大家，政府的職責就是要顧小、要顧老也要顧全民，更是我身為社福跟兒少立委的責任。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:15:24.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:15:52.607000+08:00","text":"事實上，我從上任以來就一直在爭取長照假，因為現在的人晚婚，幾乎都會走入到一種夾心世代，像我媽媽是在38歲生了我，我在38歲生了我女兒，的確現在勞動部有育嬰留停做為一個彈性或者是後來有彈性假，可是還少了一端，當我媽媽80歲、我小孩4歲的時候，我兩端都要處理，你只給我一方，卻沒有給我另外一方。","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:15:53.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:16:05.985000+08:00","text":"所以我要問勞動部和衛福部，我先問衛福部，我去年在質詢的時候就要求兩部會要提供評估報告，我想問石部長：評估在哪裡？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:16:05.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:16:07.988000+08:00","text":"到底那個需求是多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-26T09:16:12.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:16:18.384000+08:00","text":"我了解一下以後再跟委員說明，您說的就是需要有……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:16:20.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:16:25.610000+08:00","text":"對，需要請長照安排假的人到底有多少？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:16:25.610000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T09:16:26.610000+08:00","text":"如果不知道的話……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-26T09:16:26.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:16:28.733000+08:00","text":"是長照的照顧假的需求嗎？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:16:29.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:17:06.367000+08:00","text":"是，因為這件事情從來就不只是制度的設計，而是在超高齡社會下每一個家庭正在面對的現實，我在上週開記者會時都已經提過了，我想直接告訴兩位部長，要判斷長照的安排假有沒有必要其實不用這麼複雜，我們就直接看數據，這是勞動部的114年工作場所就業平等概況調查表，有超過六成的勞工曾因為長期照顧壓力而考慮離職，我們希望用種種政策讓勞工不要因為照顧而離職。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:17:06.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:17:19.772000+08:00","text":"同時有76.2%的勞工表示即使無薪也需要長照安排假，就是他不要用錢來貼補，可是他就是有這個需求，這代表需求已經很明確，而且正在發生。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:17:21.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:17:26.334000+08:00","text":"請問兩位部長，這個數據足夠支持你們推動長照安排假嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-26T09:17:27.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:17:47.465000+08:00","text":"我想我們從幾個數據來看，第一個，在我剛剛的報告裡面也大概提到，如果是住院新發生個案要接後端的長照服務，在過去當然時間很長，要五十幾天，那現在大概平均是3.66天，所以這個有一個空窗。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-26T09:17:48.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:18:12.241000+08:00","text":"第二個，如果不是因為住院而是在社區裡面要申請的，平均大概是10天，眾數大概是5天，所以這裡也有一個空窗，當然就必須由家屬自己擔負這個空窗期長照的照顧，那我覺得確實是可以來考慮這樣的制度。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:18:12.241000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T09:18:14.903000+08:00","text":"好，所以可以考慮。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:18:14.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:18:16.664000+08:00","text":"洪部長，這是你們的數據，應該是很明確的。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-26T09:18:19.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:19:25.439000+08:00","text":"其實我們對於像這個以照顧不離職為目標的政策當然都很願意來思考，針對長照安排假的部分，我們的確也有在跟衛福部討論，現在長照3.0已經上路，過去其實大家可能想說痛點就是空窗的部分，在長照3.0上路以後會縮短到什麼程度，在目前整體長照制度下面的這個政策的需求，我自己認為可以在制度上路以後再進行一輪的評估，這樣才比較能夠掌握住需求，然後再來評估長照相關假別的必要性跟可行性，我覺得它可能會經過一個程序的討論，所以我們願意在這個程序之下來做綜合的思考。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:19:25.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:19:50.243000+08:00","text":"是，我想勞動部應該非常知道現在缺工、婦女勞參率低，如果因為照顧離職的話，可能會雪上加霜，而且現在問題是成本事實上沒有消失，而是被轉嫁出去，勞工如果用離職來承擔，企業用人力流失來承擔，家庭用健康跟時間來承擔，像部長剛才有祝我們身體健康，當然在我們覺得家庭負擔很重的時候就很難啦！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:19:50.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:19:54.348000+08:00","text":"最後整體的社會再用生產力下降跟稅收減少來承擔。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:19:54.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:20:10.042000+08:00","text":"更具體來看的話，企業為了一個員工離職可能要付出約1.5倍年薪的重置成本，因為要重新訓練人，洪部長，這些重置成本最後要由誰來解決？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:20:10.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:20:15.944000+08:00","text":"一定是你們勞動部要想辦法，那為什麼我們不去解決這個根本的問題呢？","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:20:18.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:20:33.204000+08:00","text":"我想問石部長，我相信你們大概也會支持，可是前端的問題不能解決，就會留一堆問題，不能到最後還留一堆問題，否則家庭照顧者最後又變成負擔很大，因為他要一個人在家裡去照顧。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:20:33.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:20:50.053000+08:00","text":"關於你們的其他服務，我知道長照3.0的時間的確有縮短了，可是從申請到銜接到所謂的適應，事實上需要一些時間，所以我就要問：到底對象是誰？","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:20:50.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:20:50.573000+08:00","text":"誰能申請？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:20:50.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:20:51.334000+08:00","text":"需要多少錢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:20:51.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:20:51.594000+08:00","text":"有沒有財源？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:20:53.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:20:54.937000+08:00","text":"事業單位會不會支持？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:20:55.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:21:20.076000+08:00","text":"所以我們就來看數據，事實上，我們現在主要想爭取的是能不能從新手開始，因為如果是重新再找的話，當然還好，可是如果是新手的話，依衛福部估計，一年大概新增2到3萬人使用，石部長，我們先針對初次有長照需求的人給予協助，你支持這個方向嗎？","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-26T09:21:20.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:21:42.606000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，當然我們現在儘可能的去增加申請的方便性，包含線上申請等等，但是在第一次我們照專需要做長照需求評估，因為我們還有半年再評估，所以在第一次評估的時候一定是要有照顧者也就是家屬在旁邊……","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:21:43.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:21:46.050000+08:00","text":"對，申請要4天，評估要7天。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-26T09:21:46.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:21:52.817000+08:00","text":"以目前來講，一年大概新申請長照第一次初評估大概是三萬多人左右。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:21:54.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:21:57.741000+08:00","text":"我只是要問你，你支持這樣的方向嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:21:57.741000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T09:21:58.741000+08:00","text":"就是如果只針對新手。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-26T09:21:57.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:22:15.914000+08:00","text":"我支持就是以第一次的，因為第一次他需要導入長照服務，第一次進入這個系統；第二個，他也需要像委員講的適應，所以如果是先限縮在第一次申請的，我覺得這個可行性是比較高。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:22:16.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:22:17.455000+08:00","text":"應該要去考慮！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:22:18.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:22:39.714000+08:00","text":"如果我們用初次有需求的這兩、三萬人去做計算，我也幫部長算好了，以平均薪資六成薪的話，整體成本大概是9到10億；如果用投保薪資六成薪的話，整體估計預算大概是6.4億；如果用育嬰留停的規模跟方式，以投保薪資八成薪來算的話，大概是8.6億。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:22:40.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:22:41.615000+08:00","text":"部長，我們用這個規模來試辦的話，這筆錢對勞動部應該不難吧？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:22:41.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:22:50.682000+08:00","text":"就業保險基金是不是可以支應呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:22:50.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:23:23.718000+08:00","text":"因為我們看到的是，首先，育嬰留停也就是用就保來做處理，有前例可循；第二，不要讓勞工因為照顧而離職，我認為絕對符合就業保險法的精神；第三，就業保險基金的財源相對是穩定的，去年就保應計保費是330億，實際給付是250億，帳面上的剩餘大概是80億，也都因為有剩餘，所以依法撥補給就業安定基金40億，因此增加這條10億的計畫應該不是難事吧？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-26T09:23:26.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:23:42.420000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我還是分兩個部分，第一個部分，對於長照相關的假別要不要來規劃實施，我覺得這部分我們是可以綜合思考的；可是對於財源的部分，我還是要說，因為育嬰留停……","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:23:42.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:23:45.521000+08:00","text":"當的確要碰到修法，我這邊已經也有法案提出。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-26T09:23:46.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:24:02.683000+08:00","text":"因為育嬰留停的津貼，其實就保是社會保險的法定給付，所以如果要把這個……因為就保基本上處理的比較是跟留停相關的，不是處理個別的假別。","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-26T09:24:05.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:24:22.145000+08:00","text":"現在在處理的育嬰留停以日申請，其實也還是來自留停制度，所以如果要從留停角度來講的話，它可能在目前的法規框架裡面並不是法定的給付項目，假如要把它修進去的話，的確可能也還要檢討費率問題。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:24:26.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:24:47.508000+08:00","text":"部長也可以去考慮到底有什麼樣的制度，因為去年進入到超高齡社會，加上臺灣為什麼會少子化，晚婚也是一個原因所在，所以夾心世代是存在的，如果不去解決，我覺得照顧離職這一塊就永遠沒解，然後還有缺工問題，這個事實上是環環相扣。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:24:47.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:25:09.918000+08:00","text":"而且事業單位也是支持的，因為我們知道政策要推行，民間跟企業一定要能夠協助，在勞動部的同一份調查也說得很明白，將近有四成的事業單位是支持有這個假別，而且逐年上升，不支持的比例大幅下降，所以這個政策不只是受僱者支持，雇主支持的也越來越多，因此就剩政府看要不要做。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-26T09:25:11.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:25:44.963000+08:00","text":"我其實是希望這個議題可以正向討論，可是這裡面還是要先經過需求評估，包括有多少人需要、哪些情境需要、需要的時間長短大概多少，這才有辦法進入到經費上面的思考，而經費上的尺度也會思考不同財源的適配性，因為經費尺度的差別會跟哪些財源比較適合有關係。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-26T09:25:44.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:25:54.469000+08:00","text":"所以我的意思是，我們可以正向地來做很多的討論，可是我覺得可能前面還是必須要先從需求的理解跟評估開始來進行。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-26T09:25:56.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:26:08.758000+08:00","text":"剛剛其中有一張簡報講到就保，其實並不是這個保費的盈餘就是80億，去年保費的收支盈餘大概是40億。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:26:10.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:26:17.981000+08:00","text":"不過我在這邊還是期待，我剛剛講到這個已經是不可迴避的政府責任，為什麼？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:26:17.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:26:19.503000+08:00","text":"因為我們就是晚婚跟高齡化。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:26:20.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:26:30.918000+08:00","text":"我請勞動部跟衛福部，是不是在5月1號勞動節提出長照安排假試辦計畫，以初步運作？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:26:31.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:26:48.929000+08:00","text":"而且方案中當然要納入薪資貼補機制的設計，讓勞工在照顧初期能夠真正請得起假、留得住工作，否則我覺得我們的照顧離職問題是沒有解決，缺工問題也沒辦法解決。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:26:49.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:26:58.131000+08:00","text":"另外，本案提出之後，也請邀請民間團體、專家學者及相關利害關係人，召開試辦計畫研商會議，針對適用對象、薪資貼補比例、企業負擔方式及財務進行完整討論，可以嗎？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-26T09:26:58.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:26:58.531000+08:00","text":"好，先做討論。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-26T09:26:58.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:19.278000+08:00","text":"我知道洪部長剛剛提的有一些需要解決，可是我覺得這已經是不可迴避的，所以希望兩位部長能夠一起促成，在勞動節的時候給勞工一個保障，謝謝。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T09:27:22.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:25.906000+08:00","text":"謝謝林月琴召委的發言，也謝謝兩位部長的應答。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T09:27:26.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:28.109000+08:00","text":"下一位請陳菁徽委員發言。","quality":0.818}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}