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那個非常感謝各位黨團的代表因為上次院會的時候處理台灣民眾黨黨團提案成立修憲委員會"},{"start":1906.124,"end":1925.729,"text":"那院會進覆二讀了以後那是交由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商那我們在今天就召集協商那我先介紹一下各位出席的委員那首先是民主進步黨黨團的陳培宇陳委員"},{"start":1928.67,"end":1935.075,"text":"中國國民黨黨團的王玉敏王委員以及台灣民眾黨黨團的張祺凱張委員陳昭芝陳委員我們現在就開始進行協商"},{"start":1943.724,"end":1956.521,"text":"今天要針對有關修憲委員會組成協商的重點是整個依照立法院組織法第九條以及立法院修憲委員會組織規程第三條的規定"},{"start":1959.659,"end":1983.729,"text":"本會的委員為立法委員總額三分之一加一人由各黨團依其院會席次比例分配並保障少數參與原則組成制其實在上一屆的國會當中也曾成立過修憲委員會那就依照各黨團數額的代表來加以組成"},{"start":1985.732,"end":2009.829,"text":"那如果我們依照議事人員當然我不是先決定啦我先跟各位黨團的代表報告依照議事人員跟我所提供的書面資料就是113位委員各黨團依照院會席次比例分配那大概依照比例算出來我們39個人是國民黨團19個人民進黨團17個人台灣民眾黨黨團3個人"},{"start":2014.705,"end":2028.239,"text":"那我先把那個議事人員相關的法規跟他們按照人數的比例的說明先跟各位黨團的代表來報告一下那不曉得哪一位黨團要先發言好那是看有誰要先發言"},{"start":2036.718,"end":2046.316,"text":"因為這個其實是完全程序性的事項啦就是修憲委員會那各黨團的代表要幾個人來加以組成我們先請王毅民王委員"},{"start":2047.076,"end":2050.479,"text":"好 謝謝黃國昌主席還有我們在座的委員我想修憲這件事情國民黨是支持成立修憲委員會我們可以看到過去事實上民進黨現在是執政黨它過去對於修憲的議題其實也是非常的熱衷在2013年的時候當時高雄市長陳其邁"},{"start":2075.12,"end":2102.841,"text":"他其实就有修宪的提案2014年蔡英文主席其实也有提出要终结监察院的主张2014年9月立委陈廷飞也有修宪提案2015年3月30号蔡英文主席主张废除监察院2016年蔡英文在竞选总统的时候废除监察院落实单一国会是他的重要政见了"},{"start":2103.834,"end":2129.243,"text":"2017年立委陳亭飛修憲提案2020年立委陳亭飛修憲提案2020蔡英文總統表示要推動憲政改革廢除監察院2021年民進黨憲改小組主張廢除監察院2024年連監察院長陳菊本人都表示支持廢除監察院他希望他是最後一任的監察院院長"},{"start":2130.763,"end":2153.764,"text":"所以到2025年6月13號民進黨黨團的幹事長吳思瑤他也說廢除監察院是民進黨長期的理念跟主張那所以代表民進黨黨團應該也是支持的所以現在看起來如果三黨都支持的情況底下我們的確要有修憲的"},{"start":2154.784,"end":2178.829,"text":"齊成跟進度那所以我想今天是很重要邁出一步就是如果我們可以針對什麼時候要開始來做這件事情定出一個具體的日期那按照整個修憲委員會的組織章程剛剛主席也講嘛按照39位委員席次的分配國民黨有19席民進黨17席民眾黨3席那對於這樣席次分配國民黨黨團沒有意見"},{"start":2184.17,"end":2209.249,"text":"那我們希望今天大家可以有共識我們整個修憲廢除監察院的期程我們可以往前邁進一步 以上謝謝好 謝謝那個王委員 那個我那個是不是先冒昧請教一下 不好意思因為有的時候 院會交付我們的議案有一些具體的事情要確定剛剛王委員也代表中國國民黨黨團同意成立修憲委員會"},{"start":2210.49,"end":2238.039,"text":"那就人數上面的分配因為議事人員依照我們相關的法規以及各政黨他的人數比例是中國國民黨黨團19人民進黨黨團17人台灣民眾黨黨團3人那對於這樣子一個議事人員所初步草擬的一個建議不曉得王委員中國國民黨這邊是不是同意是同意了嗎好謝謝那接下來要哪一位好來請那個張啟凱張委員"},{"start":2240.689,"end":2267.486,"text":"希望今天可以為我們的修憲跨出一大步我們盡快組成修憲委員會事實上上一屆就已經有組成過沒有說上一屆行現在不行事實上主席就是國參委員也拜會了韓國瑜韓院長韓院長也說如果大家沒有意見他會盡快來召集我查了一下事實上目前這一屆有七個修憲案民進黨最多民進黨有四個"},{"start":2268.869,"end":2274.593,"text":"台灣民眾黨提了廢監察院廢監察院事實上民進黨的陳廷飛"},{"start":2276.977,"end":2298.838,"text":"等民進黨立委又提出來他要廢考監那國民黨有兩個案子事實上最多的案子目前提出最多的修憲案是民進黨的四個所以希望我們盡快跨出一大步民政會說你提的案子擺在那邊是延宕還是打假球特別是這段時間大家非常注意監察院的"},{"start":2300.984,"end":2328.295,"text":"功能不彰他到目前為止像今年他還編了超過10億的預算後來經過立法院刪減他比較不當跟腐爛的他今年還是用了人民納稅錢超過8億可是裡面絕大部分都是人事的這個費用變成是一個執政黨在養肥貓然後是一個養老院籌擁院那又被民眾認為說你的這個工作量好像自己都在減少不只是"},{"start":2329.403,"end":2348.188,"text":"公務車私用的這個問題到現在沒有一個明確的交代好像閉了蓬頭之後也沒有好好去處理我們去統計他最近開會啊院會院會最近半年開的院會在10分鐘以下就結束了竟然超過了將近一半"},{"start":2349.312,"end":2367.298,"text":"他工作量大幅的這個減少然後呢是立委監委的這個自動調查量也是在減少彈劾案也是在減少智慧武功的這個同時可是還是浪費人民那麼多納稅錢還是功能不彰而且變成是一個酬庸的這個地方更嚴重的我們這段時間發現了監察院好像變成閉案不查變成在掩附閉案像超思案像陳忠彥案連彈劾都談言不過他不只是沒有好好發揮"},{"start":2378.325,"end":2392.023,"text":"直施風紀 糾正跟彈劾這個功能是不是變成是一個弊案的一個掩護了是不是變成是一個打手了所以現在民間的這個每次的民調要求要廢掉監察院的聲浪非常非常高我剛才特別提到了民進黨"},{"start":2393.525,"end":2399.01,"text":"陳廷輝等委員也有提出這個案子那市長民進黨從1999年開始就已經提了這個肺這個檢驗我們很期待今天能夠經過大家的討論我們共同盡快組成這個修憲委員會由韓院長盡快來召集然後把時間也趕快定下來剛剛我們主席也講了我們14整年已經把這個委員會的這個名額也大致上都已經我已經列出來了"},{"start":2418.165,"end":2429.556,"text":"這個只欠東風,很期待今天大家可以共同跨出一步真正讓我們所有的修憲的這個案子包括民眾黨提的、國民黨提的、民進黨提的這個修憲的版本趕快來討論,不要讓人家覺得是在嚴當跟打架球,謝謝好,謝謝張祺凱委員那從張祺凱委員剛剛代表台灣民眾黨黨團的發言給確認台灣民眾黨黨團也是贊成成立修憲委員會"},{"start":2441.806,"end":2466.27,"text":"那就人數上面的安排是不是也同意依照我們議事人員所草擬的一個建議那國民黨黨團19位民進黨黨團17位台灣民眾黨黨團3位總共39位來加以組成同意嗎贊成嘛OK好那我們接下來請那個中國國民不對民主進步黨黨團的代表請問哪一位要發言"},{"start":2468.834,"end":2487.172,"text":"好 我們現在請鍾嘉賓委員發言謝謝 那今天我們依照立法院職權行使法我們來進行這個黨團協商那協商呢 因為有院會交易要進行修憲委員會 成立修憲委的議題"},{"start":2488.479,"end":2508.439,"text":"那我想要確認一下是不是可以請議事人員我們記得上次好像在這個會場我們在處理的是一個調閱小組調閱委員會那一般來講院會都會有一個交易嘛交易說我們看今天交易下來是說他這裡說是要來"},{"start":2512.239,"end":2536.095,"text":"完成修憲委員會之組成那因為這裡面 它這裡面的案有的第二行說本屆以來相繼有各堂委員提出修憲相關提案那首先當然我們關心的是修憲委員會因為有修憲提案要來成立但是要問的是說那現在相關的提案有哪些"},{"start":2537.315,"end":2540.477,"text":"那麼因為呢 這涉及到什麼呢我們修憲委員會要成立那成立之後 其實我再舉個例子啦事實上在我第十屆的時候我本身呢 也是修憲委員會的委員因為修憲委員會依照我們法定的規定是39席那麼39席委員有委員來擔任那它的運作有要"},{"start":2560.789,"end":2567.094,"text":"有很多很多的案子那請問一下現在的修憲提案有多少案子會是在我們修憲會要來進行扶論的先說明一下"},{"start":2571.567,"end":2593.488,"text":"到目前為止立法院第十一屆修憲的提案總共有七個案子第一個案子是由賴士寶等37位委員拟據中華民國憲法徵修條文第三條文修正草案第二個案子是由賴士寶等34位委員拟據中華民國憲法徵修條文第四條條文修正草案"},{"start":2594.389,"end":2610.84,"text":"第三個案子是由陳廷飛等30位委員擬據中華民國憲法徵修條文部分條文徵修草案包括第三條、第四條、第六條、第七條第四個案子是由林怡瑾等29位委員擬據中華民國憲法徵修條文徵定第一條之一"},{"start":2611.681,"end":2639.14,"text":"第五個案子是由吳佩奕等二十九位委員擬拒中華民國憲法徵修條文徵定第一條之一第六個案子是由吳立華委員等三十六位擬拒中華民國憲法徵修條文第四條修正條文修正草案第七個案子是由我本人擬拒中華民國憲法徵修條文第三條第四條第七條修正條文草案到目前為止本屆的國會總共有七個修憲的提案Pending待修憲委員會來加以處理來繼續"},{"start":2642.54,"end":2664.019,"text":"謝謝主席的說明所以我們就這樣看得出來呢其實這些修憲的提案有七個提案那這當中呢有包括國民黨籍的賴委員在世保委員說要恢復隔奎同意權的這是在去年的四月就提出來了那當然賴世保委員提的當中還有包括國情報告常態化"},{"start":2665.936,"end":2687.738,"text":"那至於本黨籍的陳廷輝委員呢在去年的六月就提出了要廢考監要三權分立那麼民黨籍的林益錦委員呢在去年的六月也提出了18歲公民權那當中呢吳佩奕委員本黨的吳佩奕委員也提出了在去年的十月提出了18歲的公民權提案"},{"start":2688.399,"end":2700.623,"text":"那麼武麗華委員也提出了刪除平原跟三原的分類這是在去年年底提的那麼最近一個就是現在主席所提出來的廢監察院那麼這樣的一個這些修憲提案那我在這裡其實也借用這個我們在討論修憲委員會的過程也將過去上一屆的一個經驗來跟我們其他黨團的成員分享"},{"start":2712.466,"end":2721.031,"text":"因為我看起來在場的其他黨的委員並沒有參加過修憲委員會不好意思 我稍微打斷一下今天我拜託各位黨團的委員"},{"start":2723.649,"end":2750.87,"text":"大家有什麼想說的話開記者會都OK我們盡量針對今天會議的主題來加以討論我們今天院會交付給我們的主題就是要成立修憲委員會那第一個大家同不同意成立那第二個人數怎麼分配我們節省大家的勞力時間費用我想說這樣子會議的進行會比較有效率是不是請各位黨團的委員就盡量針對這一次院會所交付的議題來加以討論謝謝"},{"start":2753.471,"end":2767.826,"text":"謝謝主席因為第三條的規定要完成修憲委員的組成那這組成不是只有說39席怎麼分配而已這還包括說第一次修憲委員會召開的日期還要有後續的審查程序所以其實我們這次的討論這個包括"},{"start":2774.605,"end":2789.719,"text":"主席之前我們在成立所謂的調查委員會的時候也都對於院會交易的內容其實大家要做一些充分的討論那在這裡我們就看一看這裡面大家就想定一個開會日期然後組成39個組成然後要進行後續的審查以避利於社會的審查"},{"start":2799.912,"end":2828.257,"text":"主席不好意思這個大家不要離題這個案由非常的清楚今天我們只處理兩件事一個是委員會的組成就是剛剛主席所講的就是各政黨的比例大家有沒有意見第二個就是第一次召開會議的議程那剛剛這個民進黨委員所提到他是說必立進行修憲案後續的審查程序就是你前面的組成跟第一次召開日期定了之後其他的內容這個我想民進黨若有很多的意見"},{"start":2828.937,"end":2841.867,"text":"下一次第一次正式開會的時候大家再針對內容來交換好不好我想就是要聚焦就是這兩件事情一個就是各政黨比例代表大家同不同意第二個就是決定第一次開會的日期"},{"start":2842.758,"end":2862.276,"text":"好 這個謝謝王毓民委員我再跟大家報告一次今天的任務非常簡單第一個 同不同意成立修憲委員會第二個 議事人員所建議的各政黨的人數大家是不是同意這兩個有共識了以後那我們再決定第一次修憲委員會大概召集的日期至於其他"},{"start":2863.197,"end":2875.773,"text":"目前Pending在本屆國會裡面的七個修憲的案子大家贊不贊成有什麼樣的意見等到開修憲委員會再處理這個不是這一次黨團協商可以處理的射程範圍以上說明"},{"start":2877.707,"end":2901.797,"text":"謝謝主席,我這一個發言,兩次主席還有我們現在委員要做一個補充,我也都接受啦那麼其實呢,大家在談這個,我也沒有要談七個修憲提案的內容我沒有要談內容的主張喔我只要提醒說,當我們進行後續審查程序的時候呢,就在上次我們的調閱委員會當中也是類似的情況,我提醒大家一下就是說上次的調閱委員會呢,我們在處理到秘密會議"},{"start":2903.898,"end":2907.841,"text":"跟秘密會議如何召開秘密會議如何進行這也是屬於程序的問題我不是說我們修憲委員會要開秘密會議沒有我只是用同樣的例子來說當一個特別委員會修憲委員會是特種委員會特種委員的運作他的規則程序"},{"start":2922.291,"end":2929.377,"text":"那麼要如何按照我們本院相關的議事規則 議事程序這個就是我們現在在處理的問題我們現在在處理程序嘛 處理日期嘛 處理組成嘛 處理比例嘛那麼這個組織規程當中呢 因為我們希望說能夠就比較完整的來討論說"},{"start":2942.276,"end":2965.259,"text":"後續的這個委員會如何運作我們可以把一些注意事項先做一個意見交換那這樣的話我們在後續進行組成之後的運作或許各政黨會比較有一個默契因為畢竟後續的運作不會像今天這樣有一個政黨協商的過程不好意思我主席再插一下話修憲委員會"},{"start":2966.3,"end":2994.481,"text":"要怎麼運作修憲委員會召開第一次會議以後再討論不在整本次黨團協商的設成範圍本次黨團協商大概要處理的院會交付的事項組成修憲委員會各黨團人數的比例以及第一次開會的時間如此而已那請問民主進步黨黨團對於院會所交付的這些事項是否贊成組成修憲委員會人數要怎麼分配第一次的日期有沒有什麼寶貴的意見"},{"start":2997.666,"end":3012.436,"text":"我還是因為三次被打斷,我就要問的,那麼因為這個決定召開的日期,我們可以做一個了解,後續的修憲提案,那麼涉及到我們修憲委員會,我們後續組成之後,我們行使運作的期程,"},{"start":3015.638,"end":3040.554,"text":"那這個部分呢我會覺得啦雖然呢這不是實質的問題這不是實質內容問題不是這個七個提案問題會不會有第八個提案第九個提案那我們也是希望說藉由這次的朝野協商黨人協商呢大家可以對所謂的召開的日期這裡是決議嘛第一次召開的日期必定進行修憲案的後續審查那如果我們訂的這個日期太晚"},{"start":3041.534,"end":3058.818,"text":"訂的太晚恐怕對於後續的修憲提案的討論恐怕不好那如果訂的很早那會不會有其他的修憲提案想要進行到我們委員會來所以在這裡我們的本題所謂的第一次修憲委員會召開的日期"},{"start":3059.645,"end":3088.076,"text":"涉及到現在我們是在研會期間那我們定的日期在前在後對於後續的修憲委員會的運作其他的提案現有的提案的討論時間跟其他後續要提出來討論提案的時間有沒有什麼影響也是可以討論我剛剛被打斷了三次我這講完了就是說我們定的這個日期要考量到我們有現有的提案要討論的需求以及後續提案他所需要的時間以上好"},{"start":3089.341,"end":3096.044,"text":"不好意思喔 那個 我先回答問題啦第一個 後續會不會有其他的提到不好意思喔 現在主席在主持會議沒有關係 剛剛你全部都已經發言完了嘛 對吧"},{"start":3105.785,"end":3135.005,"text":"我在發言的時候被你打斷了三次所以我沒有要你回答我只是要請教其他黨團成員的意見第一個後續會不會有其他委員的提案我不知道我無法預期本院所有的委員想要提修憲案都可以依照規定連署來提案那連署成案了以後院會交付給修憲委員會一併處理就一併處理我們今天提案要處理的問題是第一個"},{"start":3136.525,"end":3158.259,"text":"站不站成成立修憲委員會第二個人數的分配是不是我們就同意依照國民黨黨團19位民進黨黨團17位台灣民眾黨黨團3位總共39位這個是依照我們目前既有的席次所為的分配那第三個第一次修憲委員會召開的日期"},{"start":3158.979,"end":3182.25,"text":"那至於修憲委員會成立了以後後續的程序要怎麼進行什麼時候要開會不在這一次協商的設成範圍當中所以民進黨黨團同不同意成立修憲委員會人數的比例贊不贊成那如果這兩個事情都同意的話那我們就直接move on到第三個問題就第一次修憲委員會召開的時間好來請陳佩玉委員"},{"start":3184.281,"end":3186.722,"text":"主席我應該沒有打斷你對不對因為是你叫我好謝謝主席我想關於這個召開的時間我這邊有個建議來也想要請其他兩黨的委員聽聽看目前這一屆國會被號稱是史上最亂的國會然後擴權違憲最嚴重的國會那我認為也是最不被公民所信任的國會"},{"start":3203.971,"end":3207.612,"text":"所以在這個前提之下假設我們的修憲委員會組成了相關的提案其實需要經過公民複決那個是已經大半年以後的事情了更不要講我們前面修憲委員會開會要討論時間不知道要拉多長什麼時候召開再往後投票還要再往後拉半年"},{"start":3222.237,"end":3238.89,"text":"那我認為有一群最不被信任的國會委員所組成的修憲委員會提出來的修憲案要送到公民面前去投票覆決我認為對於台灣的公民非常的不負責任所以我的建議是我們民進黨團的建議是不宜在此時召開修憲委員會因為我認為請尊重我們的發言你剛發言的時候我們都沒有打斷"},{"start":3245.868,"end":3261.233,"text":"所以我認為此時此刻民進黨團認定不宜在此時召開修憲委員會那我的理由非常的清楚這是一屆最不被信任的國會違憲亂政最荒謬的國會我不知道這樣的國會委員召開修憲委員會的意義何在"},{"start":3263.337,"end":3276.825,"text":"謝謝喔那個剛剛民進黨黨團的代表陳培宇委員明確的表達民主進步黨黨團反對在這個時候成立修憲委員會我的理解應該沒錯誤吧這個是剛剛陳培宇委員講的我有理解錯誤嗎"},{"start":3278.92,"end":3305.195,"text":"好來請鍾嘉賓委員補充這個主席的理解我不敢說是錯誤或正確啦或是說我們剛剛在討論的是日期啦那但是呢您剛剛主席提的說我們現在先處理的是席次的分配席次的分配那我就很好奇啦過去我們成立過修憲委會這次是第三次過去兩次成立修憲委會呢都是由院長來協商分配黨團的席次的啦"},{"start":3305.711,"end":3332.28,"text":"那如果說嚴格來講就39席如果按照所提供的黨團協商參考的表的確議事連所提供的39席它在分配上的比例是這樣但是今天我們所關心的是說因為今天主席就一口咬定說就是我們就來處理協商這個協調這個席次那我就很好奇是不是能不能說明一下是否過去我們成立修憲委員會"},{"start":3334.693,"end":3355.847,"text":"黨團的席次比例都是由院長主持的協商這一點雖然在議事規則裡面並沒有明白的明文顯示我們還是很想要知道一下今天這個協商既然論到是黨團的席次比例是不是可以說明一下過去修憲委員會的黨團席次比例是由誰來主持的"},{"start":3357.736,"end":3377.358,"text":"說明一下今天會召集協商是院會交辦的事項院會決議由台灣民眾黨黨團召集協商當天院會做成這樣子決議的時候在場全體委員沒有人表示反對"},{"start":3378.479,"end":3397.134,"text":"沒有人表示異議那因此我們就依照院會交付的決議召集了今天的協商這不僅僅是符合立法院職權行使法以及院會交付的意旨那現在我們還是回到問題的核心"},{"start":3398.336,"end":3410.796,"text":"第一個 民進黨黨團同不同意成立修憲委員會人數的比例 民進黨黨團同不同意第三個 針對第一次修憲委員會召開的日期民進黨黨團有沒有什麼高見"},{"start":3416.23,"end":3428.058,"text":"我先補充一下嘉賓好像比較進入狀況民進黨會反對自己有四個立委提了四個修憲案然後今天你們說反對成立嗎我說的是這個會期我剛說的是這個會期"},{"start":3433.781,"end":3449.415,"text":"上一屆都成立啦 第一個上一屆都成立 這一屆為什麼不成立第二個 你們七個案子裡面有四個是民進黨民進黨提出的 你們要自拿嘴巴嗎更重要的 上主席已經強調好幾次這是院會交付 交付今天我們要來協商為什麼今天坐在這個地方院會交付我們就是兩個很重要的嘛一個到底要不要成立"},{"start":3456.414,"end":3467.599,"text":"要不要成立 我覺得民進黨就想清楚等一下很明明確確講你們到底是贊成還是反對那如果反對的話你們這四個案子是要撤案還是打假球都不審了嗎這是第一個那第二個"},{"start":3469.315,"end":3496.815,"text":"這個人數這個比例是依照目前立法院的這個席次啊你們如果有更好的更好的比例你們就提出來甚至第三個你們如果對於那個日期剛剛嘉賓提的時候日期不能太早不能太晚那你就明確講嘛哪一個日期我們共同來討論嘛好不好我們就針對針對院會交互我們的主席已經強調了大概五六次啦我們就不要再離題好不好要不要成立然後第二個比例比例人數比例你們到底怎麼贊成是這樣子有意見你就提日期就把它定出來好不好"},{"start":3498.29,"end":3504.744,"text":"好 謝謝張綺卡委員不好意思 王一鳴委員因為鍾嘉斌委員先舉手我先讓他發言好嗎可以喔 謝謝王委員來 請鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":3506.513,"end":3526.878,"text":"唉 那個因為剛剛主席先點張旗開委員啦因為剛剛我提出來的問題真的就是要問主席的結果主席請張委員先講那我的問題在主席剛剛的答覆當中呢我大概分兩個部分說明第一個我剛剛提出的詢問是請議事聯盟幫我們說明一下過去我們本院成立修憲委員會關於"},{"start":3529.518,"end":3550.606,"text":"協商二黨團的出席比例就席次是不是由院長來主持協商的就很簡單的問題啊這個議事人員查一下就知道了嘛那至於呢我剛剛沒有問主席這個問題我是請議事人員主席請議事人員幫我們查一下那如果可以的話呢主席可以請議事人員幫我們查一下那第二個呢"},{"start":3551.566,"end":3566.457,"text":"剛剛主席在藝聖人還沒有進行回覆之前就說到是根據我們院會的交易那其實也提到所謂的立法院職權行使法那我們很誠懇的請大家剛剛藝聖人也在翻了我告訴你第123頁第68條第12章黨團協商那我們今天是屬於為協商議案"},{"start":3573.542,"end":3591.095,"text":"是協商議案或解決爭議事項剛剛有提到不是爭議因為當天有提到說要成立修憲委員會要交付協商那這個是一個院會交付的議案要協商議案得由院長或各黨團向院長請求進行黨團協商那麼當然這是"},{"start":3598.325,"end":3623.832,"text":"院會提出來院會就要求我們來進行黨團協商那麼至於說是不是要交由提案的黨團來進行這裡面我們看一下在這裡面第70條議案交由黨團協商時由該議案之院會提案說明人所屬黨團負責召集"},{"start":3626.158,"end":3650.328,"text":"通知各黨團書面簽名指派代表兩人那麼該院會說明人為當然代表並由其擔任協商主席但院會說明人更換黨團的這個就不再贅述了啦那我們來看一下這個議事人員可以幫我們看一下68條跟第70條呢我上次也是另外一個黨團協商呢我來就教於我們主席那個是70條"},{"start":3651.508,"end":3664.897,"text":"那個70條的適用時期呢是在於我們會扯到有委員會所屬的問題我們先看到第70條第二項在第70條的情況的第二項呢他要有一人為審查會委員"},{"start":3666.892,"end":3683.401,"text":"那因為這個院會這個不是審查會提出來的提案是在院會提出來的提案所以我才會認為說這個提案為什麼成立修憲委員會之後有關於各黨團席次的分配是由院長來主持協商的因為第68條跟第70條它是不太一樣的之前主席也擔任過由委員會提案"},{"start":3689.71,"end":3697.781,"text":"之後到了院會然後再交付進行協商所以在那個時候就會適用到第70條但是我們現在的狀況比較像是第68條那為什麼我說比較像因為我本身"},{"start":3704.79,"end":3718.702,"text":"我也不曾參加過第一次修憲委員會的成立我只有在第十屆參與過本院第二次成立修憲委員會的時候我有參加過所以我才是要請教我們醫事人員查一下第一次成立修憲委員會的時候"},{"start":3720.163,"end":3738.041,"text":"那麼是不是由院長來主持協商那至少我在參與第二次修憲委員會成立的時候的確是由當時的由院長在主持協商的那根據的就是立法院自宣新法第68條而剛剛的主席說要看立法院自宣新法那是第70條70條是因為有委員會審查後那提到院會的時候"},{"start":3743.246,"end":3755.853,"text":"那麼交付協商的 那麼那個時候就會由提案的委員 提案的黨團來進行還會有要求各黨團指派的代表 應要有一人為審查會委員請看一下68條跟70條好 來說明一下 我再說一次今天會召集協商 是院會交付的決議"},{"start":3767.386,"end":3795.157,"text":"院會交付的決議明確的交由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商上一屆的國會由誰協商怎麼進行我尊重上一屆的國會這一屆的國會是由院會交付由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商我們在今年6月20號收到立法院議事處函證本給台灣民眾黨立法院黨團"},{"start":3796.397,"end":3819.11,"text":"附本給中國國民黨、立法院黨團、民主進步黨、立法院黨團、修憲委員會等等這個公文量達應該都收到了啦阻止本院台灣民眾黨黨團鑒於本鑒修憲委員會掌以憲法修正案之審議相關事項等等等等說明依照"},{"start":3820.979,"end":3835.424,"text":"114年6月20號第三會期第17次院會決議辦理這今天所召集的黨團協商就是依照6月20號第三會期第17次院會決議辦理這個是立法院議事處的來函"},{"start":3837.125,"end":3858.713,"text":"所以我還是回到今天協商的主題請問民進黨贊不贊成成立修憲委員會人數同不同意那以及第一次修憲委員會召開的日期有沒有什麼具體的建議來請謝謝主席那個主席很用心的念了那個議事書的發文嘛"},{"start":3859.178,"end":3880.353,"text":"沒有錯啊,就是因為議事處有發文,我今天才能夠有機會問啊那議事處要不要說明一下,就這麼簡單的問題過去兩次的修行文的成立,是不是由院長協商然後呢,那這一次第三次修行文成立,議事處發文說是這樣子那是根據哪一條規定,我們好歹可以知道一下吧"},{"start":3881.413,"end":3902.667,"text":"這個跟上一屆的立法院是如何如何主席口口聲說是尊重上一屆的立法院上一屆的立法院已經現在是第十一屆了但是第十一屆的立法院所進行的方式當然不是說十一屆就自己完全重新重來過啊一定有立法院的議事常規慣例可以遵循啊我們只是做個詢問而已"},{"start":3904.208,"end":3921.889,"text":"我剛剛已經回答鍾嘉賓我的問題那個是一個議事處的通知我是依照議事處的通知是依照院會的決議嘛我剛剛不是唸了嗎不是我請教一下嘛是哪一條剛剛我不是就已經跟你講說是依照立法院院會的決議這些議事人員都是奉公守法的公務員"},{"start":3922.99,"end":3942.23,"text":"他們依照立法院院會的決議要求我們依照立法院的決議來召開黨團協商因此坐在這邊嘛主席你這樣算不算打動我的我要問的是是68條還是70條不是啊我很尊重你的發言我只是很迷惑一個問題你有沒有問我就說是68條還是70條可不可以告訴我們一下"},{"start":3945.393,"end":3952.296,"text":"立法院院會當初做成這個決議的時候就是依照立法院執權行使法70條的規定是確定嗎?是就是依照立法院執權行使法70條的規定回答你的問題了吧來請議事人員"},{"start":3964.911,"end":3977.982,"text":"奉主席之命跟各位委員做個說明因為這次民眾黨黨團的提案是一般提案它依據的是職權行使法第八條第三項對好如果藍色的這個是98頁對對對它的第三項它是立法委員提出的其他議案"},{"start":3994.554,"end":4022.329,"text":"朗讀標題後提案人說明只去大體討論一決交付審查或禁負二讀或不予審議那現在那一天17號17次6月20號這個提案本身是禁負二讀那依照之前的那個職權行使法修正的74條之一現在有明文規定就是禁負二讀的案子你是說第8條第3項嗎"},{"start":4026.154,"end":4045.827,"text":"對後面74條之一是本來循例這種一般提案禁負二讀就會交協商然後在上一次的質詢行使法修正羅志強委員的院會通過是74條之一禁負二讀就交協商那在院會的處理就是交付"},{"start":4046.327,"end":4066.006,"text":"提案的台灣民眾黨黨團來負責召集協商那鍾委員你剛提到第十屆的部分那個也是那時候的民眾黨黨團提出那民進黨黨團他有提說要由院長來召集協商所以第十屆就是由院長來召集協商在院會的時候"},{"start":4068.149,"end":4088.008,"text":"對 因為第十屆也是以一般提案的提出這樣子 說明完畢好 沒有關係喔 現在我再確認一次啦 中國國民黨黨團主席 我可不可以詢問啦因為我剛剛他的回答我的問題我可以詢問不好意思喔 先讓我主持議事好不好我再說一次中國國民黨黨團 台灣民眾黨黨團 同意成立修憲委員會"},{"start":4092.236,"end":4103.862,"text":"也同意依照議事委員建立的人數來組成修憲委員會請問民主進步黨黨團是不是同意成立修憲委員會然後人數是不是同意按照議事委員的建議"},{"start":4105.835,"end":4124.11,"text":"這個主席是在指揮訴訟是不是我在問議事人員我不是在指揮訴訟我是在主持會議你主持會議可以啊我們不是你的質詢對象啊我跟你講啊我沒有在質詢你啊我在主持會議議事人員也不是你質詢的對象我剛剛請主席議事人員也不是你質詢的對象我沒有在質詢我是在請教剛剛聽得很清楚"},{"start":4127.052,"end":4132.038,"text":"議事領言說是根據立法院執行法第70條之一剛剛主席說是根據立法院執行法第70條很清楚的剛剛的聲音都聽得很清楚了我本來問主席說是根據68條還是70條"},{"start":4142.449,"end":4148.012,"text":"主席說是根據70條我就很納悶因為70條我讀不出主席認為我們今天是由他來主持這個協商的結果非常謝謝議事人員的說明我們知道兩點我要確認一下這兩點在場委員都認定無誤第一他說這是根據立法院執行法第8條的一般提案而且是依禁婦惡毒的程序那麼禁婦惡毒的程序呢那麼在上一屆"},{"start":4171.562,"end":4194.874,"text":"在上一屆因為這個程序呢有院會當時有民進黨提出要求由院長來主持協商所以上一屆提出由院長主持但是他有說是在一般提案院會交付審議的時候呢是有提案說要請院長主持那這點確立無誤嘛所以我說上次是由院長主持不過是在交付的時候是有黨團提出"},{"start":4197.876,"end":4215.732,"text":"但是這一次為什麼我們院會交付的時候會變成是一的是新修訂的74條之一進戶二讀議案由提案委員或所屬黨團負責召集那就懂了嘛"},{"start":4216.752,"end":4229.562,"text":"那就是根據新修訂的職權刑事法第74條之一這一個在上屆的立法院是沒有的上屆立法院的職權刑事法第74條沒有74條之一嘛只有74條嘛是不是這樣沒錯吧我的確認是這樣上次立法院"},{"start":4235.285,"end":4253.793,"text":"沒有 我要跟你確定啊 因為你剛剛說是根據立法院執行 七十四條之一啊不好意思喔 我再說一次我們在院會交付由台灣民眾黨黨團召集協商這個是院會的決議 不好意思啊 我在問他的法律依據啊 你插什麼嘴啊你插什麼嘴啊 我在問說這是根據法律依據 請中嘉賓委員不要咆哮 對不起"},{"start":4257.194,"end":4282.647,"text":"因為議事人員剛剛就在旁邊搖頭我再說一次今天召集協商是交辦 院會交辦我們要召集協商當初在院會院長宣布由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商的時候在場所有的委員沒有人表示異議沒有人表示異議這種黨團協商我必須要老實講"},{"start":4284.188,"end":4308.817,"text":"進行過非常多次了不要內行人講外行話故意來這邊干擾議事啊我已經非常有耐心的一而再再而三的說明跟解釋了所以民進黨黨團現在到底同不同意成立修憲委員會人數的比例到底是多少剛剛議事人員已經非常有耐心的回答了你的問題了"},{"start":4310.237,"end":4328.737,"text":"我們現在在執行院會交付的黨團協商請問民進黨黨團同不同意成立修憲委員會贊不贊成依照議事人員的建議的人數來加以組成請針對今天協商的主題發言好嗎你如果"},{"start":4329.678,"end":4348.147,"text":"對於院會那樣的交付法規範有疑義認為院會交付給台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商不對當初你在院會就要表達異議了當初你在院會民主進步黨立法院黨團完全沒有提出任何異議"},{"start":4349.548,"end":4369.963,"text":"院長做成的決議要求我們來召集協商我今天作為會議的主席就是依照這一次協商的主題在主持會議我也請教各個黨團的意見現在民主進步黨黨團可不可以針對這一次協商的主題戰不戰成成立修憲委員會"},{"start":4371.064,"end":4376.75,"text":"以及人數是不是同意按照議事人員的建議就針對問題來表達黨團的立場好嗎"},{"start":4382.361,"end":4398.951,"text":"我們尊重主席的詢問在主席詢問的同時我們也用主席的話不要外行充當內行我們在進行任何諮詢的時候都是與法有據我相信當時院會也交互我們黨團協商的時候呢也是與法有據那現在確認根據的是哪一條法"},{"start":4403.534,"end":4420.398,"text":"我們才確認他是與他有據那也謝謝剛剛議事人員耐心的說明我們很清楚的聽到這次本屆修憲委員會的成立在院會交付的時候是根據我們本屆才通過的立法院職權行使法第74條之一不是剛剛主席搖頭晃腦在說的第70條"},{"start":4427.381,"end":4437.271,"text":"如果主席的認知跟伊斯蘭人的說明有不一樣的時候我當然問清楚啊主席是不是認為我們是根據70條來決定今天的黨團協商還是我們現在是根據伊斯蘭人所說明的74條之一來進行協商法條的適用不同我們參與協商的時候的認知就是不同我知道但是主席還沒有想要你發言啊"},{"start":4451.805,"end":4475.699,"text":"王毓民委員不好意思王毓民委員沒關係先讓他講啦因為現在在直播每一個人發言的內容大家全部都可以看得到啦講的有道理沒有道理是在背個議事還是真的要來協商所有的公民透過直播大家都看得非常的清楚所以專家兵委員你剛剛表達的意思大家全部都聽到了我再次請教民主進步黨立法院黨團"},{"start":4477.02,"end":4481.685,"text":"同不同意成立修憲委員會 暫不贊成依照議事人員所講的人數來加以組成我們對於今天議事人員所說是根據立法院職權刑事法第74條之一我們認為這個程序是理解院會交付的程序"},{"start":4501.283,"end":4504.786,"text":"那我覺得主席也不要迴避剛剛我在請教的時候您多次都不願意讓議事人員說明都要自己盡為說明你說明的結果就是全國人民都在看的內容就是我問你是68條還是70條你堅持是70條我才會不斷的詢問因為本席對於立法第70條的認知跟你所認為的判斷有所不同"},{"start":4526.704,"end":4528.845,"text":"那果然議事人員說明了我們現在適用的程序是上屆所沒有的例子法74條之一所以本席因為有上屆的參與經驗才會疑惑說為什麼上屆是由院長主持協商而這一次卻不是"},{"start":4544.654,"end":4549.801,"text":"那不是的原因就是剛剛議事委員所說明的因為有增加了74條之一所以院會在進行普通提案交互協商的時候院長就直接根據74條之一才是由提案的委員或黨團來主持"},{"start":4560.425,"end":4583.835,"text":"這是再明白簡單不過的道理也只要主席願意接受議事人員的說明很明白的跟在場的協商代表說明我們就清楚了今天這個黨團協商是根據例子法來的不是主席自己發明的所以我在這裡也很清楚的說明我們進行的主席多次的詢問民進黨同不同意比例如何我剛剛說了"},{"start":4588.898,"end":4612.139,"text":"這些都不是我們現在要回答主席的問題我剛剛提的是提問我不是在回答問題我在提問目前我們在這裡 協商的依據就這麼簡單沒有什麼困難也不要隨便給人家戴帽子是杯葛協商不懂議事規則 不懂立法院職權行事法不懂本院在進行會議所依據的法令就不要在那邊罵人家外行充內行"},{"start":4613.241,"end":4639.158,"text":"這個是沒有必要的我們是很誠意的如果議事人員我有說的不夠清楚或跟你的意思有違的地方您或許可以再跟我指正一下畢竟我們美國委員在這裡一方面也是行使職權二方面也是有所學習我希望呢在新增了立法院職權新司法74條之一之後我們對於這種一般提案進入惡毒的場合我們未來的協商是怎麼進行有一個更清楚更明白的理解謝謝議事人員"},{"start":4643.297,"end":4662.069,"text":"我再請議事人員再說一次因為剛剛議事人員說他想要再說明一次我也尊重他那等議事人員說完了以後請民進黨黨團說明一下針對今天協商的主題到底佔不佔成成立修憲委員會人數的比例佔不佔成議事人員的建議來先請議事人員做說明"},{"start":4668.308,"end":4692.728,"text":"跟委員做個說明補充說明就是這個部分呢七十四條之一之前那個之前是沒有是循例辦理然後文發的協商通知裡面因為剛主席講的也沒有錯因為他是一個黨團協商商裡面的一個條所以我們的發文裡面也是有提到職權刑事法的七十條以上說明"},{"start":4696.877,"end":4720.167,"text":"OK 好 沒關係啦 議事程序 議事人員也說明了那現在針對同不同意成立修憲委員會以及人數是不是按照議事人員建議的組成民進黨黨團今天有沒有要表達立場 贊成還是反對 還是今天不表達立場因為我們已經協商 現在48分鐘了是不是可以請民主進步黨黨團的代表說明民主進步黨黨團的立場"},{"start":4721.786,"end":4733.516,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們剛剛已經說得很清楚了這是一屆最不被信任的國會我們認為這不是一個開啟修憲委員會的好時間那我們要求如果今天大家沒有共識我們就送院長協商"},{"start":4734.642,"end":4759.672,"text":"好那個是不是送院長協商這件事情立法院職權刑事法68條規定的很清楚民進黨黨團如果希望院長協商的話請民進黨黨團進行發文那因為今天民進黨黨團反對在這個時候成立修憲委員會那我們的協商就不成立那我們接下來就按照議事規則來加以處理好謝謝大家今天的參與謝謝"},{"start":4769.59,"end":4782.794,"text":"這四個案子是要匯監驗嗎?匯免掉嗎?他們也沒有要匯監驗,違背自己的選擇,也影響了資格"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}