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大家都很關心就是最近因為這個中東戰爭的影響然後這個塑膠的原料上漲那塑膠原料上漲就影響到很多了嘛那譬如說有這一個醫藥用的這個塑膠手套類拋棄式器那個液材也受到影響"},{"start":42.583,"end":57.27,"text":"然後呢 塑膠類的商品呢 這個商品呢 這個有上週的競價 漲價兩到三成那這個據經濟部的這個說法啦 他說 中油說 原料的供應沒有短少"},{"start":58.45,"end":79.285,"text":"但是呢這個產發署卻說呢有一些呢比較中盤的經銷商有一點點在心態上面延緩出貨或是有囤貨的現象我不曉得這個代理主委知道這個現象我們有去了解了已經有去了解了今天這兩天媒體出來之後才去了解還是之前就有去了解了我們聽到有這樣的新聞以後我們就進行去了解"},{"start":80.146,"end":108.555,"text":"了解是一回事有沒有採取什麼樣的動作但因為我們的查核的重點是在於他們有沒有聯合進行價格的操作啦哄抬是一件事情但是這個哄抬是不是出自於彼此合意的哄抬那是我們調查的重點所以我們有在觀察這個市場那另一方面我們也配合經濟部目前正在進行全面的盤查所以假設這個過程當中我們有發現一些可能有聯合的行為這個聯合包含聯合囤積聯合拒絕出貨所以如果市政顯示有這樣的情況的話我們一定會調查"},{"start":109.235,"end":129.345,"text":"那你們是調查哪一些比如說行業、產業類別你們怎麼去做調查的可不可以再講個具體一點我目前是針對這個塑膠這個產業裡面不同的塑膠類型它有分上游、中游、下游啊對啊你們可不可以有一個具體的說法就是說你們有去了解到底是怎麼樣去了解法"},{"start":129.605,"end":144.276,"text":"我們會瞭解它整個的生產線上下游我們都會去瞭解原料 因為中游說原料沒有缺啊中下游這些產品不應該受到影響啊這當然就是我們後續要去瞭解是不是到底問題出在什麼地方所以這個為什麼我們會跟經濟部會繼續跟經濟部那邊來配合那所以咧 哪時候會知道這個結果咧"},{"start":152.998,"end":158.399,"text":"因為調查證據需要一點時間那這個調查證據完了以後經過分析我們還要經過委員會的討論所以那個時程上會比較難以控制一點不是一般啊因為現在就是說這個中東戰事好那川普說可能到這個4月9號他認為是一個Date Line但是我們也不知道那至少可能還有兩個禮拜的時間那這兩個禮拜的時間可能會"},{"start":177.083,"end":192.046,"text":"對於這個消費者來講 目端消費者來講就會受到影響對很多的這一些這個中小學需要用到的一些廠商比如說那個醫院也受到影響啊那甚至很多賣這個手搖飲之類可能也會受到影響啊那所以你們的這個調查時間大概多久可以出來呢"},{"start":193.067,"end":217.726,"text":"當我們調查到市政 我們進行分析到底有沒有合意 當然送委員這其實有時候時程上會有一點通常啦 通常你們都調查不曉得 我們盡快在三個月內完成可以嗎三個月內完成喔需要這麼久的時間喔對 因為聯合行為的市政的判斷有時候不是那麼的容易就是到底他們業者之間是不是有勾結那個要有更多的市政來做一些推論啦好"},{"start":218.516,"end":244.758,"text":"那就等你們的這個報告然後這兩天有一個新聞那主委應該也知道了就是說那個Grab他來收購這一個Fupenda的事情然後呢這個他收購了這個 打算收購Fupenda但是呢這個Uber又是Grab的最大的一個股東就會變成這樣一件事情那其實在2024年的時候也是有這個Uber Eats要這個"},{"start":246.099,"end":261.414,"text":"併購這個Fupenda那後來你們說這個市佔率過高有這一個不利益的因素所以呢你們就沒有讓他通過嘛對不對那現在看起來這一個Fupenda他又是另尋出路出來的那對這件事情我們卓偉的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":262.166,"end":277.266,"text":"當然我們分析的原則跟上位的架構是一樣的但是這兩個案子最大的不同是上一個案子結合以後變九成市場超級大的一個企業那這個案子基本上是另外一個企業來頂Fu Panda所以市場結構並沒有產生過大的變化可是"},{"start":277.947,"end":296.049,"text":"Uber也是這個啊Grabber它是最大股東啊所以繞來繞去還是會變成這一個這個投一家的意思啊因為現在案子還沒進來但等案子進來以後我們的分析重點這個也是我們會去研析的一個重點就是那個實質控股的關係對於整個市場競爭Grabber它的最大股東應該是Uber才對啊"},{"start":296.83,"end":305.22,"text":"對 但是這是13.5對啊那這個部分到底會後續影響到市場競爭到什麼程度這個就是我們後續會會去考慮啦會去考慮這個Uber是國內最大的股市實質的控制對阿 那就跟之前是一樣嘛我覺得有點是這一個"},{"start":313.809,"end":341.506,"text":"故意來這樣子這個又換了一個一家公司進來但是Uber它還是這家Grab最大的股東我們會去看這個13.5到底實質上它產生的對那個Grab這是一個第二個就是說這個Grab它有這個中資至少我們看到資料就是有這個中國滴滴跟謹順那所以未來這個如果這家公司要進來的話那這部分是不是也要受到你們的這個考慮"},{"start":343.047,"end":362.366,"text":"我們不會考慮到這個資金來源這應該是投審會投審會那邊投審會那邊會去處理就對了那你們就是考慮到說那到底這個未來這個Uber它實質影響到這個國內市場的競爭市場的競爭在台灣的市場競爭他們有來做申請嗎還沒有 目前還沒有送件目前還沒有送件就對了好 我知道好 謝謝 謝謝大家謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:13:36.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:13:36.229000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們請陳代理主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:13:36.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:13:36.369000+08:00","text":"請主委，謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:13:36.369000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:13:58.633000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:13:58.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:13:58.633000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:13:59.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:14:25.246000+08:00","text":"大家都很關心，最近因為中東戰爭的影響，造成塑膠的原料上漲，塑膠的原料上漲就影響到很多，譬如醫藥用塑膠手套類、拋棄式醫材也受到影響，然後塑膠類商品上週進價漲價兩到三成。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:14:28.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:14:43.637000+08:00","text":"據經濟部的說法，中油說原料的供應沒有短少，但是產發署卻說，一些比較中盤的經銷商有一點點在心態上面延緩出貨，或是有囤貨的現象。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:14:44.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:14:45.899000+08:00","text":"我不曉得代理主委知不知道這個現象？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:14:46.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:14:46.979000+08:00","text":"我們有去了解，針對這個市場有去了解。","quality":0.438},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:14:47.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:14:47.980000+08:00","text":"已經有去了解？對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:14:50.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:14:52.463000+08:00","text":"是這兩天媒體出來之後才去了解，還是之前就有去了解？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:14:52.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:14:55.265000+08:00","text":"我們聽到有這樣的新聞以後，就去進行了解。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:14:56.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:14:58.447000+08:00","text":"了解是一回事，有沒有採取什麼樣的動作？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:14:58.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:11.331000+08:00","text":"但因為我們的查核重點是在於他們有沒有聯合進行價格的操作，哄抬是一件事情，但是這個哄抬是不是出自於彼此合意的哄抬，那是我們調查的重點，所以我們有在觀察這個市場。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:15:11.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:24.535000+08:00","text":"另一方面，我們也配合經濟部，目前正在進行全面的盤查，所以假設這個過程當中，我們有發現一些可能有聯合的行為，這個聯合行為包含聯合囤積、聯合拒絕出貨，因此如果有事證顯示有這樣情況的話，我們一定會調查。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:15:25.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:26.716000+08:00","text":"你們是調查哪一些？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:15:27.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:31.358000+08:00","text":"比如行業、產業、類別，你們是怎麼去做調查的？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:15:31.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:33.139000+08:00","text":"可不可以再講得具體一點？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:15:33.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:37.261000+08:00","text":"我目前是針對塑膠產業裡面不同的塑膠類型……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:15:37.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:38.982000+08:00","text":"它有分上游、中游、下游啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:15:38.982000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:41.063000+08:00","text":"是，目前應該……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:15:41.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:42.624000+08:00","text":"你們可不可以有一個具體的說法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:15:42.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:45.325000+08:00","text":"就是你們說有去了解，但到底是怎麼樣的了解法？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:15:45.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:49.068000+08:00","text":"我們會了解它整個的生產線，上、下游我們都會去了解。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:15:49.068000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:50.068000+08:00","text":"不是啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:15:49.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:55.072000+08:00","text":"因為中油說原料沒有缺，那麼中、下游的這些產品不應該受到影響啊！是啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:15:55.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:15:59.855000+08:00","text":"這當然就是我們後續要去了解的，到底問題出在什麼地方，所以這就是為什麼我們會繼續跟經濟部配合的原因，看他們那邊有沒有什麼事證。","quality":0.672},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:16:00.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:16:00.096000+08:00","text":"所以呢？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:16:00.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:16:00.256000+08:00","text":"哪時候會知道這個結果？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:16:08.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:16:10.398000+08:00","text":"因為調查證據需要一點時間，調查證據完以後，經過分析，我們還要經過委員會的討論，所以時程上會比較難以控制一點。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:16:10.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:16:10.598000+08:00","text":"不是一般啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:16:10.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:16:48.026000+08:00","text":"因為現在就是中東戰事，川普說可能到4月9號，他認為這是一個deadline，但是我們也不知道，至少可能還有兩個禮拜的時間，但這兩個禮拜的時間可能對末端消費者來講就會受到影響，對很多中、下游需要用到的一些廠商，比如醫院也受到影響，甚至很多賣手搖飲之類的可能也會受到影響，所以你們的調查時間大概多久可以出來呢？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:16:49.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:16:56.393000+08:00","text":"就是當我們調查到事證，我們進行分析到底有沒有合意，等到送委員，其實有時候時程上會有一點……","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:16:56.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:16:57.534000+08:00","text":"通常你們的調查要多久？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:16:58.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:17:00.656000+08:00","text":"我不曉得，我們儘快在3個月內完成，可以嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:17:00.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:17:01.617000+08:00","text":"3個月內完成喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:17:02.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:17:04.099000+08:00","text":"要需要這麼久的時間啊？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:17:04.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:17:12.925000+08:00","text":"對，因為聯合行為的事證判斷有時候不是那麼容易，就是到底他們業者之間是不是有勾結，要有更多的事證來做一些推論。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:17:13.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:17:16.538000+08:00","text":"好，那就等你們的報告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:17:16.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:17:36.955000+08:00","text":"然後這兩天也有一個新聞，主委應該也知道，就是Grab收購foodpanda的事情，它打算收購foodpanda，但是Uber又是Grab最大的股東，就會變成這樣的一件事情。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:17:37.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:17:50.527000+08:00","text":"其實在2024年的時候，也是有Uber Eats要併購foodpanda，後來你們說市占率過高，有不利益的因素，所以你們就沒有讓它通過嘛，對不對？是的。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:17:50.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:17:57.414000+08:00","text":"現在看起來foodpanda又另尋出路出來了，對於這件事情，主委的看法是怎麼樣？","quality":0.73},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:17:58.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:12.866000+08:00","text":"當然我們分析的原則跟上位的架構是一樣的，但是這兩個案子最大的不同是，上一個案子結合以後變九成，是市場超級大的一個企業，而這個案子基本上是另外一個企業來頂foodpanda，所以市場結構並沒有產生過大的變動。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:13.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:16.390000+08:00","text":"可是Uber又是Grab的最大股東啊！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:16.390000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:17.390000+08:00","text":"是，它有控股。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:16.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:20.756000+08:00","text":"所以繞來繞去，還是會變成同一家的意思啊！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:20.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:26.443000+08:00","text":"因為現在案子還沒進來，等案子進來以後，這個也會是我們研析的一個重點……對啊！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:26.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:29.146000+08:00","text":"就是實質控股的關係，對於整個市場競爭是不是會造成影響。","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:29.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:32.029000+08:00","text":"Grab最大的股東應該是Uber才對啊！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:32.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:34.412000+08:00","text":"對，就是13.5%。對啊！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:35.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:39.398000+08:00","text":"這個部分到底後續會影響市場競爭到什麼程度，這個就是我們後續會……","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:39.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:39.578000+08:00","text":"所以這個你們會去考慮啦！","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:39.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:39.718000+08:00","text":"會考慮。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:39.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:40.158000+08:00","text":"Uber是Grab最大的股東……","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:40.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:40.619000+08:00","text":"實質的控制……對啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:40.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:41.019000+08:00","text":"那就跟之前是一樣的嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:41.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:18:57.474000+08:00","text":"我覺得有點是故意又換了一家公司進來，但是Uber還是Grab最大的股東啊！","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:18:57.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:01.897000+08:00","text":"我們會去看13.5%到底實質上對Grab所產生的影響。","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:02.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:17.506000+08:00","text":"好，這是一個；第二個，Grab有中資，至少我們看到的資料就是有中國滴滴跟景順，所以未來如果這家公司要進來的話，這部分是不是也要列入你們的考慮？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:19.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:22.090000+08:00","text":"我們不會考慮到資金來源，這應該是投審會……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:22.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:23.071000+08:00","text":"投審司那邊？對。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:23.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:24.513000+08:00","text":"投審會那邊會去處理就對了？對。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:25.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:29.237000+08:00","text":"你們就是考慮到底未來Uber實質影響到Grab有多少……","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:31.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:32.760000+08:00","text":"在臺灣的市場競爭。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:32.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:34.863000+08:00","text":"他們有來做申請嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:34.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:35.803000+08:00","text":"還沒有，目前還沒有送件。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:36.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:37.225000+08:00","text":"目前還沒有送件就對了？對。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:37.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:38.306000+08:00","text":"好，我知道，謝謝代理主委，謝謝主席。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:38.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:38.366000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:38.866000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:40.866000+08:00","text":"謝謝李坤城委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:41.166000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:46.023143+08:00","text":"接下來請洪孟楷、洪孟楷、洪孟楷委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:19:46.323143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:19:49.180286+08:00","text":"請葉元之委員質詢，謝謝。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}