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代理主委早 那個我想可能有一些委員都很關心我想外送平台上個禮拜發生一個大事就是說這個Glob這一個公司他預計要收購這個Full Panda那過去也才看到說Uber Eats說要用300億"},{"start":37.608,"end":66.102,"text":"台幣左右來收購Fubenda可是到最後是沒有讓它成功嘛那現在Grab這個公司它要收購它是以200億第一金額少了100億不過更重要的是其實我們站在的是消費者餐廳以及整個市場機制健全的角度來看就是說還是要避免單一群體壟斷的一個行為也因此早上我有看到說這個代理主委有時候回答是說因為現在Uber雖然是Grab的主要的股東"},{"start":67.102,"end":89.549,"text":"但是他的占比你說是只有13%左右目前就是根據財報上的資料13.5%但是他是第二大股東這裡我們公平會有注意到吧他是大股東他是第二大股東第一大股東是SoftBank如果說以現在公開的財報2024年當然2025年最近資料我可能還沒有看到但2024年最大股東他的占比多少清楚嗎"},{"start":93.223,"end":118.465,"text":"其實也只有13%換言之其實Uber它在Glob的股權來講它其實還是有所謂的應該看起來還是有所謂實質影響力因為第三大第四大是所謂的投資銀行或是說相關的像Morgan Stanley等等的部分所以本期今天點出來的問題點還是在於說後續我們公平會應該會有一個機制去看是不是會有單一聯合壟斷的狀況"},{"start":120.186,"end":122.447,"text":"所以我們會去看這個13.5所呈現出來的在企業經營上的影響程度到底有多高不會說只是用"},{"start":136.711,"end":151.542,"text":"單一的 因為我現在看到新聞這樣的畫面我會很擔心說是不是已經公平會有先入為主這一個案件了沒有 我只是要陳述一個事實13.5但是這個東西未來在審查過程當中是會被納入非常緊張所以未來接下來的這個時程會怎麼走"},{"start":152.802,"end":169.611,"text":"一直還沒送件如果說送件的話送件進來以後我們看看那個資料補得齊不齊不齊我們會叫他再補是補完以後正式啟動以起算六個月內我印象中是六個月內應該前後假設要延長的話大概三個月九十天"},{"start":170.451,"end":197.039,"text":"90天內會來做一個審核那但是在這過程裡面本席也提醒喔因為過去當然本席以往的態度為什麼我們會在未完委員會要推動外送專法也正式的讓它上線就是因為我們認為是過去外送的這個行業裡面當然先進科技也產生但是一強獨大三個比較弱外送員比較弱消費者比較弱以及餐廳比較弱這也是事實"},{"start":197.879,"end":216.649,"text":"而現在看到這種跨國企業他可以一次拿出幾百億的台幣就可以來進軍市場代表是說他其實在國際的這個資金來講他是充裕的而我們消費者外送員以及餐廳的權益就要好好的被保障所以這也是我們希望是能夠做到四方多贏的一個"},{"start":217.729,"end":233.682,"text":"成果那過去GLUB在東南亞也有一些比較不好的例子是被當地政府到最後是開罰的譬如說他用演算法來抵制低佣金的餐廳在比較熱門尖峰時段的時候他用演算法就把一些"},{"start":234.443,"end":257.923,"text":"低佣金的餐廳給遮蔽或是說排到比較後面讓消費者他可能比較沒有辦法選到這是確實已經在新加坡還是馬來西亞他們就有開罰的一個經驗所以這樣這些部分是不是公平會未來在做審議的時候也應該要用附加條件附加行為的方式來要求過去曾經在其他國家犯的過錯或是被開罰的行為不能在台灣發生"},{"start":258.598,"end":274.689,"text":"而剛剛委員點出一個重點就是過去他曾經做過的違法歷史我們是會考慮的那個考慮如果說這個違法行為非常明顯然後影響市場競爭非常嚴重在台灣那就像如同委員所講的我們不排除用負負擔當然負負擔前提是這個案子過了"},{"start":275.009,"end":303.747,"text":"但是我們現在沒有預設任何結論假設如果要通過這些過去的一些違法的事蹟我們又不排除可以在付負擔裡面去要求他必須要遵守好 謝謝戴主委有一個比較正向的回應那我只想講就是說現在因為葉子還沒有送進我們沒有任何預設立場但本期的方向是我們歡迎所有良好的企業都來投資台灣這一塊市場因為台灣這個市場大家競爭能夠讓消費者有更好的選擇可是不要有這種"},{"start":305.088,"end":328.946,"text":"過度單一壟斷的行為發生並且更重要的是過去有實力的真的已經有發生被開罰的絕對不應該在台灣來出現所以這一個案子我想去年最大案子應該就是Uber Eats跟Fupenda的一個併購但後面沒有成那今年感覺最重大的案子之一會是這一個案件那我也希望公民會以最嚴謹專業的態度來審視可以嗎我們會非常嚴謹的來審查這個案子"},{"start":333.33,"end":333.872,"text":"謝謝戴主委 我們會繼續追 謝謝好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:33:48.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:33:59.862000+08:00","text":"主席謝謝，麻煩請代理主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:33:59.862000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:34:05.002500+08:00","text":"請代理主委，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:34:05.002500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:34:10.143000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:34:10.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:34:10.523000+08:00","text":"代理主委早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:34:11.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:34:29.130000+08:00","text":"我想可能有一些委員也都很關心，外送平臺上個禮拜發生大事，就是Grab這間公司預計要收購foodpanda，過去也才看到Uber Eats說要用300億臺幣左右來收購foodpanda，可是到最後是沒有讓它成功嘛。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:34:30.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:34:45.778000+08:00","text":"現在Grab公司要收購，他是以200億，金額少了100億，不過更重要的是，我們站在消費者、餐廳，以及整個市場機制健全的角度來看，還是要避免單一群體壟斷行為。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:34:45.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:34:57.583000+08:00","text":"也因此，早上我有看到代理主委回答說，現在Uber雖然是Grab的主要股東，但是他的占比你說是只有13%左右？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:34:58.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:35:00.564000+08:00","text":"目前根據財報上的資料是13.5%。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:35:00.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:35:05.005000+08:00","text":"但是他是第二大股東，這點公平會有注意到吧？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:35:05.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:35:06.706000+08:00","text":"他是大股東。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:35:06.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:35:17.369000+08:00","text":"他是第二大股東，第一大股東是SoftBank，如果說以現在2024年公開的財報，當然2025年最近資料，我可能還沒有看到，但2024年最大股東，他的占比多少？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:35:17.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:35:17.549000+08:00","text":"清楚嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:35:21.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:35:31.672000+08:00","text":"其實也只有13%，換言之，Uber占Grab的股權來講，看起來應該還是有所謂實質影響力……","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:35:31.672000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:35:33.514000+08:00","text":"據我們了解應該是最大的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:35:33.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:35:46.465000+08:00","text":"對，因為第三大、第四大是所謂的投資銀行，或是相關像Morgan Stanley等等，所以本席今天點出來的問題是在於後續公平會應該要有機制去看是不是會有單一聯合壟斷的狀況？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:35:46.465000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:35:47.465000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:35:47.465000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:35:48.465000+08:00","text":"委員所關切持股、控股跟影響事業經營的部分，這本來就是我們在結合審查裡面會去判斷，我們強調的是實質的控制力。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:35:48.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:35:49.987000+08:00","text":"所以我們會去看這13.5%所呈現出來，在企業經營上的影響程度到底有多高，是不是可以……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:35:50.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:36:11.776000+08:00","text":"不會說只是用單一的，因為我現在看到新聞畫面，我會很擔心是不是公平會對這案件已經先入為主了？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:36:11.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:36:16.740000+08:00","text":"沒有，只是在陳述13.5%的事實，但是這個東西未來在審查過程當中是會被納入分析的。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:36:17.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:36:19.522000+08:00","text":"所以未來接下來的時程會怎麼走？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:36:21.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:36:21.523000+08:00","text":"業者還沒送件……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:36:22.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:36:23.204000+08:00","text":"如果送件的話？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:36:23.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:36:29.267000+08:00","text":"送件進來以後，我們看看資料補得齊不齊，不齊會叫他再補，補完以後開始起算。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:36:29.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:36:34.389000+08:00","text":"是，正式起算六個月內，我印象中是六個月內？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:36:34.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:36:37.591000+08:00","text":"沒有，不用到六個月，前前後後假設再延長的話大概三個月，90天。","quality":0.56},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:36:38.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:36:39.912000+08:00","text":"90天內會審核。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:36:40.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:37:05.039000+08:00","text":"但是在這過程裡面本席也提醒，本席以往的態度，為什麼會在衛環委員會要推動外送專法，也正式地讓它上線就是因為我們認為過去外送行業裡面，當然是新興科技的產生，但是一強獨大、三者比較弱，外送員比較弱，消費者比較弱，以及餐廳比較弱，這也是事實。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:37:05.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:37:25.989000+08:00","text":"而現在看到這種跨國企業可以一次拿出幾百億臺幣，就可以來進軍市場，代表他在國際資金來講是充裕的，而消費者、外送員以及餐廳的權益，就要好好地被保障，所以這也是我們希望能夠做到四方多贏的成果。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:37:27.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:37:52.432000+08:00","text":"過去Grab在東南亞也有一些比較不好的例子，到最後是被當地政府開罰的，譬如說，他用演算法來抵制低佣金的餐廳，在比較熱門尖峰時段的時候，他用演算法就把一些低傭金的餐廳給遮蔽，或說把他排比較後面，讓消費者可能比較沒有辦法選到，這是確實已經在新加坡還是馬來西亞，他們就有開罰的經驗。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:37:52.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:38:05.903000+08:00","text":"所以像這一些部分，是不是公平會未來在審議的時候，也應該要用附加條件、附加行為的方式，來要求過去曾經在其他國家犯的過錯或是被開罰的行為，不能在臺灣發生？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:38:06.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:38:23.269000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員點出重點，過去他曾經做過的違法歷史我們是會考慮的，如果違法的行為非常明顯，然後在臺灣影響市場競爭非常嚴重，如同委員所講的，我們不排除用附負擔，當然附負擔前提是案子過了。是。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:38:23.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:38:32.615000+08:00","text":"我們現在沒有預設任何結論，但是假設如果要通過，這些過去的一些違法事蹟，我們以後不排除可以在附負擔裡面去要求他必須遵守。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:38:32.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:39:03.236000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝代理主委有比較正向的回應，我只想講，現在因為業者還沒有送件，我們沒有任何預設立場，但本席的方向是，歡迎所有良好的企業都來投資臺灣這一塊市場，因為臺灣市場大家競爭，能夠讓消費者有更好的選擇，可是不要有過度單一壟斷的行為發生，並且更重要的是，過去有實例，真的已經有發生被開罰的，絕對不應該在臺灣來出現。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:39:03.236000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:39:05.197000+08:00","text":"是，我們會注意。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:39:05.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:39:09.400000+08:00","text":"我想去年最大的案子應該就是Uber Eats跟foodpanda的併購，但後面沒有成。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:39:10.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:39:16.406000+08:00","text":"今年感覺最重大的案子之一會是這個案件，我也希望公平會以最嚴謹、專業的態度來審視，可以嗎？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:39:16.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:39:16.926000+08:00","text":"會，我們會非常嚴謹地審查這個案子。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-03-26T11:39:21.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:39:21.792000+08:00","text":"謝謝代理主委，我們會繼續追。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T11:39:21.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:39:21.852000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:39:22.352000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:39:26.352000+08:00","text":"謝謝洪孟楷委員質詢，謝謝陳主委。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:39:26.652000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:39:51.509143+08:00","text":"我稍微把今天的東西結論一下，再請公平會回去好好研議一下，第一個就是塑膠袋之亂、土方之亂，我覺得要儘快、隨時公布你們的調查結果，對這些資訊要有所掌握，如果你們有公開網站或什麼方式可以儘快宣示。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:39:51.809143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:40:08.666286+08:00","text":"另外就是Grab的併購案很多委員都有提出來，even本席也有提出來，所以這一塊你們將來審議可能還是要考慮一下跟投審司……對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:40:08.966286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:40:25.537714+08:00","text":"因為這邊有陸資的問題，然後形成一個間接的壟斷，看怎麼樣做出你們的看法和立場，同時要保障外送員的權益、商家的權益和消費者的權益。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:40:25.837714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:40:42.694857+08:00","text":"另外，比較新興的其他議題大概就是鍾佳濱委員跟我所提出來的，就是你們的人員、法制要跟上數位時代、AI的腳步，這個我會列入持續的追蹤。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:40:42.994857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:40:58.137714+08:00","text":"還有邱召委這邊的，不管是漂綠、加盟資訊的透明化，我覺得這一塊的議題在不實廣告這邊，希望你們可以儘速有一些積極的回應。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:40:58.437714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:41:03.009143+08:00","text":"我的summary大概是以上這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:41:03.309143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:41:10.166286+08:00","text":"一、登記發言委員除不在場外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:41:10.466286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:41:17.037714+08:00","text":"二、委員陳超明、蔡易餘所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:41:17.337714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:41:29.337714+08:00","text":"三、書面質詢及未及答復部分，請相關單位於1週內以書面答復，並副知本會，委員另要求期限者，從其所定。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}