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沒錯合計補助10萬這我們鼓勵鼓勵大家來"},{"start":111.262,"end":120.988,"text":"對 就是可以申請到10萬那所以我們7.99億如果申請到10萬那算起來就是7,990人可以申請這個補助國保這邊對 國民保險的部分對 沒錯那針對我們剛剛"},{"start":127.071,"end":144.95,"text":"有講到我們各種生意補助其實我們看了一下這幾年我們整個平均值我們全國出生的人數跟我們國民年金申請補助的人數算起來每年大概申請補助大概都是10%大概從112年 113年 104年"},{"start":149.375,"end":174.976,"text":"都是9.79% 10.02% 10.38%所以大概平均值大概就是一成嘛10%那如果照我們衛福部這樣子估計那你7.99億領國民年金保險7,990人那占全國新生兒出生數的一成那所以你預估我們115年新生兒大概就是差不多"},{"start":175.836,"end":194.39,"text":"七萬九千九百九十人大概八萬如果以這樣子預算估計的話如果整個平均值我們佔一成來講我們去回推所以我們照這樣來講衛福部數預估今年一百一十五年大概新生兒從你預算編列大概是預估就是八萬人"},{"start":196.38,"end":211.496,"text":"如果從預算的評估來講因為現在就像委員剛剛講的會來領的有軍公教啊也有這一個也有這一個勞保你現在用的是那個國保教育推估我是說因為連續這幾年的平均值我剛剛有講連續這幾年的平均值"},{"start":215.2,"end":239.615,"text":"扣掉勞保軍公教保險的領國民年金保險的這幾年平均值差不多都是10%有9點多有10點多所以大概就是一成所以如果說看我們衛福部預估來講我覺得看起來好像衛福部對今年新生的人數大概就是8萬所以看起來是不樂觀包委員這個我們當然會繼續來努力當然我們繼續來"},{"start":244.005,"end":253.7,"text":"來努力啦因為這個基本上人口學裡面也告訴我們了這個基本上出生基本上也跟生育步調有關啦生育步調就tempo就是說你在4040的這個16到45歲你在什麼時候生他有時候"},{"start":259.088,"end":263.932,"text":"如果說以我們預算的編列因為我們預算編列一定是推估今年大概新生兒你才會去推這個預算嘛你要編預算一定有一些依據一定有一些數據去考量所以你大概就是像我剛剛講如果說以這麼多年的數據我們以領國民年金保險大概就是一成"},{"start":283.408,"end":294.473,"text":"所以我們就是預估今年就是8萬人所以我們領國民年金抓一成來講就是8000人8000人再乘以10萬大概就是8億嘛所以你們編7.99億我們依這樣來預估所以照這樣來講衛福部"},{"start":299.208,"end":316.454,"text":"預估今年新生兒應該有可能就是8萬左右所以以我們預算的編列的精神來講的話郭包委那個通常人口學在推估的時候不是用這種方式人口學通常是用算那個育齡婦女他的那個數目然後他的cohort所以如果說每個來領10萬其實我們就只能提供79900人去領因為你只有編7.99億嘛所以你只要到"},{"start":326.337,"end":352.367,"text":"超過八萬人我們預算就是領完了所以我們預估大概就是這樣子好那當然我們當然也是希望能夠有所提升啦只是我看衛福部針對這部分的預算我們照這樣子幾年的評估看起來感覺衛福部評估大概就是八萬感覺並不是很樂觀啦那這部分我也想問一下我們我請一下勞動部我們洪部長好不好"},{"start":361.195,"end":377.867,"text":"所以當然我剛剛有跟我們次長討論那依這個預算編列我是覺得衛福部大概是朝這個方向的方向大概去看去走那我看一下我們勞動部我們預估115年新生兒像勞動部就比較樂觀預估還有101,500人那我們勞動部是針對哪一部分去做這個評估這個預算"},{"start":391.345,"end":409.91,"text":"根本說明因為去年的出生數應該是十萬七千我記得是十萬七千所以我們基本上當然因為這個出生數的推估這個我們其實應該是跟包括跟衛福部跟國發會這邊來去做一些相關的討論"},{"start":413.994,"end":433.174,"text":"對 因為針對這部分我們是發現這個問題所以我覺得我們衛福部跟勞動部我們跨部會應該針對這一部分這些數據其實在編列預算的時候應該還是要做一些參考要有一些數據要有一些依據來編列這些預算對 當時我們其實應該是看應該是看國發會其實一些"},{"start":435.636,"end":457.011,"text":"對他其實有個人口推廓數據他今年應該會針對這個人口推廓數據再做更新我覺得我知道是他會在今年的8月會再做一次的更新只是剛剛跟衛福部跟次長討論我們針對那預算的部分我覺得大概衛福部其實大概編列7.99億就是朝著大概8萬人新生兒去編列那可是我們勞動部就"},{"start":459.549,"end":474.179,"text":"預估就是10萬1500人其實我們兩個部會整體預算的編列看起來就差了2萬多個新生兒的預算去編列所以我們是建議啦應該以後針對這些預算編列應該跨部會我們能夠做一些檢討不然這個預算數據的編列上感覺落差很大"},{"start":483.666,"end":504.767,"text":"那個跟文說明就是我覺得針對這個人口數數字的推估當然我們可以來跟國發會這邊來做一些討論接下來怎麼在實際上面能夠讓他能夠更加的精準可是的確因為他是推估所以當然都會有或多或少都會有一些誤差值那這個誤差值的不確定性我想我們是可以來做一些研議的檢討當然"},{"start":506.248,"end":521.26,"text":"對不過沒關係啦這個是說我們建議就是說編列預算的時候其實我們各部會針對這個人口數應該要有一個比較近的依據你看看起來這預算編列兩個部會其實推估的人口數上次有一些"},{"start":521.7,"end":532.81,"text":"因為這個數字在編列的時候去年其實在編列的時候其實那時候最後那個十萬七千這個數字其實也還沒有出來所以當時在評估的時候我們只能依據國發會當時的數字來去當作參數來設定"},{"start":537.912,"end":557.378,"text":"好那重點還是看起來我覺得我們這8年大概花了6000億在我們少子女化的對策因應的計畫上面可是我們新生人口數我看也是從18萬然後現在也是一直下降到"},{"start":558.118,"end":584.439,"text":"十萬七千多人其實這段時間來我們已經每年新生到去年就少了七萬五千人看起來我們花了這六千億然後現在又編列這麼多錢看起來好像沒有達到實質的效益出來就是說人口數新生人口數還是一直在下降並沒有止跌我們不要講說回升啦現在連止跌都沒達到"},{"start":586.089,"end":589.218,"text":"那是不是應該要有提出一個更好的策略"},{"start":591.229,"end":617.787,"text":"非常感謝委員對這個問題的關心我想整個少子女化是所有先進國家先進工業國家普遍都會面臨問題全世界大概目前對這個對策大概就三個一個給人給錢給時間給錢的部分我們現在目前大概就是有各項的我們0到6歲的這個部分主要就有育兒津貼給服務這邊主要事實上就是我們現在目前正在推的各項的公托那給時間其實主要就是現在勞動部現在目前在推的各項的彈性還有包括現在目前"},{"start":621.229,"end":644.954,"text":"的一個彈性的措施那我想這個多元的措施之下我們希望用多元的方式來解決這問題我要強調一點這個這個是2000年population study一篇最重要的一篇被人家引用快500多次的一篇paper裡面講這是多元的原因造成多元結果所以必須要用多元的方法綜合來解決那這個我們知道現在目前下降我們也會來持續來努力"},{"start":648.335,"end":670.929,"text":"其實今天提出最主要原因其實還是希望就是說我們要怎麼去針對這個政策去做檢討去做調整因為我們看一下我們看韓國他從去年11月他的人口出生率就到達2萬多而且他已經是連續17個月都是增加的而且他從2007年"},{"start":672.91,"end":699.538,"text":"也是前面他們也是人口出生率也是一直在降低可是他從2007年開始後面到去年他已經達到時隔18年的最高的標準也就是說韓國針對少子女化對策因應這一方面他不是單就就是一直去補助錢補助錢他有其他很多的對策因應那我們是建議有做得好的國家我們也應該去"},{"start":700.938,"end":718.493,"text":"參考一下人家去做一些什麼對策去因應那今天我們這八年花了六千億然後人口還是一直在減低我覺得應該也是適時的去參考一下其他的國家的做法為什麼他們以前也是出生率也是降低為什麼這幾年已經連續每個月每年都在提升我覺得不要說"},{"start":725.238,"end":735.645,"text":"回聲啦至少我們要達到止跌所以今天提出也是說希望有些政策我們應該可以去調整一下方向可以去參考一下別的國家的做法好"},{"start":738.254,"end":759.348,"text":"好那也希望說這個大家也知道就像剛剛次長講的這少子女化也是全球目前大家一個非常重要關注的一個議題啦那但是有其他國家做得好的我們也可以去討論也可以去檢討那也是希望能夠讓我們這個少子化的國安危機能夠做得充分的改善好謝謝好謝謝圖全基委員呃待會洪孟凱委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:51:11.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:51:11.173000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:51:11.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:51:11.673000+08:00","text":"請衛福部次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T11:51:11.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:51:11.673000+08:00","text":"請呂次。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:51:11.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:00.680000+08:00","text":"次長，我們來討論一下現在國內少子女化的問題，112年跟113年的人口出生率，新生兒112年、113年還有十三萬多，到114年只剩十萬七千多，等於整整下降了兩萬多個新生兒，針對這一部分有提出少子女化對策計畫2.0，好像編列了7.99億的預算，對不對？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:00.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:01.221000+08:00","text":"針對少子女化……","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:01.221000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:05.953000+08:00","text":"不止喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:05.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:06.993000+08:00","text":"國民年金這一部分。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:06.993000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:08.575000+08:00","text":"總共一千二喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:08.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:10.336000+08:00","text":"對，我是說針對國民年金這一部分。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:11.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:11.397000+08:00","text":"國民年金？","quality":1},{"speaker":"尤副署長詒君","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:11.397000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:12.397000+08:00","text":"育兒津貼嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:12.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:13.638000+08:00","text":"保險，生育補助。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:14.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:15.240000+08:00","text":"生育補助，沒錯！","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:18.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:19.623000+08:00","text":"國民年金保險針對生育補助這一部分，編了7.99億。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:19.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:19.643000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:24.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:29.871000+08:00","text":"我們看一下，其實針對生育補助，勞保有生育補助……","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:29.871000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:30.952000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:30.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:37.137000+08:00","text":"軍公教人員也有生育補助，扣除這些部分就是國民年金保險的生育給付嘛。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:37.137000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:40.140000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:40.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:54.376000+08:00","text":"我們看了一下，針對7.99億這一部分，從今年1月1日開始，受理民眾生育給付加生育補助，合計補助10萬嘛。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:54.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:54.476000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:54.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:54.676000+08:00","text":"合計補助10萬。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:52:54.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:52:55.597000+08:00","text":"我們鼓勵大家來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:53:00.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:53:02.864000+08:00","text":"對，就是可以申請到10萬。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:53:02.864000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:53:03.864000+08:00","text":"可以到10萬，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:53:03.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:53:08.287000+08:00","text":"所以7.99億，如果申請到10萬，那算起來，就是7,990人可以申請這個補助。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:53:08.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:53:08.627000+08:00","text":"國保這邊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:53:08.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:53:09.167000+08:00","text":"對，國民保險的部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:53:09.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:53:09.868000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:53:09.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:53:39.956000+08:00","text":"針對我們剛剛講到的各種生育補助，其實這幾年整個平均值，全國出生的人數跟國民年金申請補助的人數，算起來每年申請補助大概都是10%，從112年、113年、114年，都是10.02%、9.79%、10.38%。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:53:39.956000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:53:40.956000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:53:39.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:54:07.698000+08:00","text":"所以平均值大概就是一成，如果照衛福部這樣子估計，7.99億領國民年金保險7,990人，占全國新生兒出生數的一成，所以預估115年新生兒就是差不多7萬9,990人，大概8萬。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:54:07.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:54:27.422000+08:00","text":"以這樣子的預算來估計的話，如果整個平均值占一成來講，我們去回推，衛福部預估今年（115年）的新生兒大概就是8萬人，如果從預算編列的評估來講。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:54:27.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:54:37.133000+08:00","text":"報告委員，就像委員剛剛講的，會來領的有軍公教，也有勞保的，你現在用的是國保下去推估，這個恐怕要……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:54:37.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:54:56.568000+08:00","text":"我是說因為連續這幾年的平均值，我剛剛有講，連續這幾年的平均值，扣掉勞保、軍公教保險的，領國民年金保險的，這幾年平均值差不多都是10%，有九點多、有十點多，大概就是一成。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:54:57.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:55:07.654000+08:00","text":"所以，如果看衛福部預估來講，我覺得看起來衛福部預估今年新生兒的人數大概就是8萬個，看起來是不樂觀喔。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:55:07.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:55:22.680000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個部分我們當然會繼續來努力，因為人口學裡面也告訴我們，出生基本上也跟生育步調有關，生育步調tempo就是說在適齡的16到45歲，你在什麼時候生……有時候可能是20歲、25歲、30歲……","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:55:22.680000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:55:25.384000+08:00","text":"對，沒關係，次長，我的意思是說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:55:25.384000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:55:28.088000+08:00","text":"這個跟tempo有關啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:55:28.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:55:29.589000+08:00","text":"如果以預算的編列，因為預算編列一定是推估今年大概的新生兒數，你才會去推估預算嘛。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:55:29.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:55:54.609000+08:00","text":"你要編預算一定有一些依據、一定有一些數據去考量，所以大概就是像我剛剛講的，如果以這麼多年的數據，領國民年金保險大概就是一成，所以我們就是預估今年是8萬人。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:55:55.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:56:01.832000+08:00","text":"以領國民年金抓一成來講，就是8,000人，8,000人再乘以10萬，大概就是8億嘛，所以你們編7.99億。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:56:01.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:56:14.670000+08:00","text":"我們依這樣來預估，照這樣來講，衛福部預估今年新生兒應該有可能就是8萬左右，以預算編列的精神來講的話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:56:15.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:56:23.873000+08:00","text":"報告委員，通常人口學在推估的時候不是用這種方式，人口學通常是算育齡婦女的數目，然後他的cohort……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:56:23.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:56:24.033000+08:00","text":"對啊，所以如果說……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T11:56:24.033000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T11:56:25.033000+08:00","text":"人口學有人口學demography……","quality":0},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:56:24.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:56:44.360000+08:00","text":"如果每個來領10萬，其實我們就只能提供7萬9,900人去領，因為你只有編7.99億嘛，只要超過8萬人，那預算就是領完了，所以我們預估大概就是這樣子，我們當然也是希望能夠有所提升啦！","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:56:44.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:56:55.224000+08:00","text":"只是我看衛福部針對這部分的預算，照這樣子幾年的評估看起來，衛福部評估大概就是8萬，感覺並不是很樂觀啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:56:56.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:57:01.347000+08:00","text":"這一部分我也想問一下勞動部洪部長，好不好？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:57:11.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:57:21.403000+08:00","text":"我剛剛有跟次長討論，依預算編列，我覺得衛福部大概是朝這個方向去走。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:57:22.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:57:25.166000+08:00","text":"我看一下勞動部預估115年的新生兒，像勞動部就比較樂觀，預估還有10萬1,500人。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:57:25.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:57:26.847000+08:00","text":"勞動部是針對哪一部分去做評估跟預算？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-26T11:57:40.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:57:58.910000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我記得去年的出生數應該是10萬7,000，所以我們基本上當然……關於出生數的推估，我們其實應該跟衛福部、國發會來做相關的討論。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:58:04.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:58:19.711000+08:00","text":"針對我們發現這個問題，所以我覺得衛福部跟勞動部應該跨部會針對這一部分、這些數據，在編列預算的時候，還是要做參考，要有一些數據及依據來編列這些預算。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-26T11:58:20.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:58:33.522000+08:00","text":"當時我們應該是看國發會的一些人口推估數據，今年會針對人口推估數據再做更新，就我知道的是國發會在今年8月會再做一次更新。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:58:34.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:59:03.159000+08:00","text":"剛剛跟衛福部次長討論，針對預算的部分，我覺得衛福部編列7.99億，就是朝著大概是8萬新生兒去編列，可是勞動部卻預估10萬1,500人，兩個部會整體預算的編列就差了兩萬多個新生兒的預算，所以我們建議以後針對這些預算編列應該跨部會做一些檢討，不然預算數據的編列讓人感覺落差很大。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-26T11:59:13.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:59:33.747000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我覺得針對出生數數字的推估，當然我們可以跟國發會做一些討論，接下來怎麼在實際上面能夠讓它更加精準，可是的確因為是推估，所以當然或多或少都會有一些誤差值，針對誤差值的不確定性，我們是可以來做一些研議及檢討。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:59:35.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:59:35.989000+08:00","text":"不過沒關係啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:59:36.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:59:44.876000+08:00","text":"這部分我們建議在編列預算的時候，各部會針對人口數，應該要有一個比較近的依據。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T11:59:45.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T11:59:50.240000+08:00","text":"看起來在預算的編列，兩個部會推估的人口數上有一些落差。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-26T11:59:50.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:00:01.790000+08:00","text":"因為去年在編列這個數字的時候，最後那個10萬7,000的數字其實也還沒有出來，所以在評估時，我們只能依據國發會當時的數字當作參數來設定。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T12:00:06.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:00:34.864000+08:00","text":"好，重點在於這8年大概花了6,000億在少子女化對策因應計畫上面，可是新生兒人口數也是從18萬，然後一直下降到現在的十萬七千多人，其實這段時間以來，每年新生兒已經……到去年就少了7萬5,000人。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T12:00:36.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:00:58.198000+08:00","text":"我們花了這6,000億，然後現在又編列這麼多錢，看起來好像沒有達到實質的效益，就是新生兒的人口數還是一直在下降，並沒有止跌，我們不要講回升，現在連止跌都沒達到，是不是應該要提出一個更好的策略？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T12:01:00.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:01:13.238000+08:00","text":"非常感謝委員對這問題的關心，我想少子女化是所有先進國家、先進工業國家普遍都會面臨的問題，目前全世界的對策大概就三個，給人、給錢、給時間。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T12:01:13.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:01:18.982000+08:00","text":"給錢的部分，我們現在大概有各項0到6歲的措施，主要有育兒津貼。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T12:01:18.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:01:21.944000+08:00","text":"給服務，事實上就是我們目前正在推的各項公托。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T12:01:23.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:01:31.429000+08:00","text":"給時間，主要是勞動部目前推的各項彈性措施，包括育嬰留停、論日等等彈性措施。","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T12:01:32.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:01:36.610000+08:00","text":"在多元措施之下，我們希望用多元的方式來解決這個問題。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-03-26T12:01:36.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:01:53.934000+08:00","text":"我要強調一點，這個是2000年population study裡最重要的一篇，被人家引用快五百多次的一篇paper，裡面講這是多元的原因造成多元的結果，所以必須要用多元的方法綜合解決，我們知道目前下降，我們也會持續來努力。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T12:01:57.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:02:05.020000+08:00","text":"次長、部長，其實今天提出的最主要原因，還是希望說我們要怎麼去針對政策做檢討、調整。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T12:02:06.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:02:45.397000+08:00","text":"我們看一下韓國，從去年11月，他的人口出生率就到達兩萬多，而且已經連續17個月都是增加的，而他在2007年前面也是人口出生率一直降低，可是從2007年後面開始到去年，他已經達到時隔18年的最高標準，也就是說，韓國針對少子女化對策因應這一方面，不單只是一直補助錢，他有很多其他的對策因應。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T12:02:45.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:03:07.253000+08:00","text":"我們是建議對於做得好的國家，也應該去參考一下人家做什麼對策去因應，我們這8年花了6,000億，然後人口還是一直在減低，我覺得也是應該適時地去參考其他國家的做法，為什麼他們以前出生率也是降低，而這幾年已經連續每個月、每年都在提升？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T12:03:07.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:03:16.260000+08:00","text":"我覺得不要說回升，至少我們要達到止跌。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T12:03:16.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:03:24.505000+08:00","text":"所以我今天提出，也就是希望有些政策，我們應該可以去調整一下，方向可以參考別的國家的做法。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-03-26T12:03:29.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:03:48.047000+08:00","text":"大家也知道，就像剛剛次長講的，少子女化是目前全球非常關注的一個重要議題，但是有其他國家做得好的，我們也可以去討論、也可以去檢討，希望能夠讓我們的少子化國安危機獲得充分的改善，謝謝。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T12:03:48.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:03:48.268000+08:00","text":"謝謝涂權吉委員。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T12:03:48.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T12:03:48.348000+08:00","text":"待會洪孟楷委員詢答完畢後，休息20分鐘用餐。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T12:03:48.848000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T12:03:51.990857+08:00","text":"接下來請王鴻薇委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}