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他在撥用的時候必須要把它要做什麼樣的用途在撥用計畫裡面要明白的敘述"},{"start":273.058,"end":299.384,"text":"所以当时他在申请这个的时候你们不会去考虑其他的因素吗比如说他是特定农业区也许他不适合你们是不会去考虑这些其他的因素你只要说他符合这个法条他只要符合这出产法第15条你们就来办理其他的你们都不考虑是不是在非都市土地的部分并不会要求这个但是他后续剥去以后他要做这个用途依然要按照"},{"start":300.154,"end":312.177,"text":"土地使用管制的規定以及環評以及開發許可等等各項條件都必須要具備他才能夠用如果這些條件不具備他沒有辦法用的時候土地就會辦理廢紙撥用交回到國有財產署"},{"start":313.288,"end":340.997,"text":"好那這樣子聽起來的話說實在的財政部這邊我們好像要尋求財政部這邊的協助看來是沒有希望我想請教農業部我們陳部長因為這個焚化爐的預定是在特定農業區它涉及的是2000公頃的這一個茶產業所以農業部一定要有態度那剛剛我們莊部長已經說了可能要等到後續的時候當然我們知道聽起來是撥用"},{"start":341.457,"end":369.451,"text":"不一定可以直接興建嘛那這個部分的話我想請問因為我不曉得納豆縣政府到目前為止它所謂的計畫書有沒有送到中央那到底如果說這個計畫送到中央之後呢我們農業部要如何把關呢它是有它這是攸關於全國首搖飲產業的未來我在想農業部一定要有態度我想請教部長這部分後面如何把關"},{"start":370.671,"end":393.244,"text":"好謝謝委員我想第一個就是土地的撥用不代表就可以農地變更這是非常明確的因為他會到農業部這邊申請對根據相關的農發條例如果他是特定特農區的話他原則上是不可以變更的但是如果說他是做相關的公共事業的時候公共事業興建的時候我們會針對"},{"start":394.805,"end":411.058,"text":"他提出來這個公共事業是不是具有合理性必要性跟不可替代性我舉個例子這三個要件去審查他是不是符合公共建設的要地不可替代性的意思就是說今天他新建粉化粉化廠"},{"start":411.798,"end":427.653,"text":"那是不是說整個南投縣的粉化垃圾的處理是不是一定要興建成為一個粉化廠的地方這個是部分這第一個說明第二個說明就是就農業部的立場因為他在這個區域想要興建粉化爐"},{"start":428.554,"end":444.86,"text":"但是這個周遭的地區裡面我們也盤點了就像委員所說的他的茶是大概是兩千兩百多公頃那整個南投縣六千四百多公頃的茶是佔全國茶產區的一半五至三左右所以他是非常重要的一個茶產區"},{"start":445.76,"end":470.825,"text":"而這個茶產區又特別是我們商業用茶的基底的主要的原料佔了將近90%商業用茶佔了90%所以它後續的影響會很大第三個更重要就是說在這個地區裡面它是石斧的一個所謂的生態的一個熱區那如果說興建的時候那影響到相關的石斧的這些熱區的時候"},{"start":472.665,"end":495.626,"text":"可能就會回到我剛才一開始講的我們會做三個審查合理性、必要性跟不可替代性以這樣的一個情勢的時候未來目前他沒有送審未來審查的時候他第一個要通過環評環評跟農地變更是平行去審的但是環評在審查的時候一定會徵求我們農業部的意見我們農業部的意見剛才已經表達非常清楚"},{"start":498.268,"end":509.441,"text":"那同樣的就是環平那邊即使過了進到我們真正的農地變更的時候我們還是會再次審查它的合理性、必要性跟不可替代性"},{"start":510.256,"end":538.609,"text":"所以目前來講的話當然我們環團也好或是當地民眾都希望現階段我們中央能夠就立即的阻止這件事情繼續發展下去比如說因為他可能還有很多的流程要跑我想請教一下我們中央政府在這個階段有什麼可以著力的地方嗎還是要像部長所講的一定要等他送到計畫來進入審查會然後我們再來做審查提意見"},{"start":540.05,"end":550.656,"text":"針對種種的因素我們提出我們的意見我們只能在那個階段的時候做點什麼事現階段您認為以農業部來講的話我們只能呼籲南投縣政府可以懸崖勒馬還是怎麼樣"},{"start":558.061,"end":578.114,"text":"我跟委員報告因為案子沒有進來表示沒有這個案子只是他們準備做這樣的規劃目前他們準備做這個所以說在準備規劃的時候我們在不同的時間點我們其實已經非常清楚表達農業部的立場他原則上在特農區是不適合興建的特別是這個有爭議的這個焚化廠他對於那個"},{"start":582.557,"end":596.073,"text":"不可替代性的部分必須要更謹慎的去檢討不可替代性說是不是一定要設掩埋場或是焚化爐才是能夠解決他當地的垃圾的問題他必須要清楚的說明"},{"start":596.701,"end":621.707,"text":"OK 所以我們是希望就是說真的等到他們真的把計畫送出來因為我們看到的話他大概是前面的階段都一直在進行當中那我們聽起來中央政府這裡要等到他計畫進來之後你們可能做整個的審視才可以就你們的專業的立場提供這個意見嘛好 部長現在您講的這個是這樣子嗎對 相關的規定是如此"},{"start":622.987,"end":648.049,"text":"我報告委員這對特定農業區農業部是非常的謹慎是必定要經過層層的把關而且通過各種的條件才有辦法變更目前看起來農業部採取的是相當清楚的立場要變更是非常非常困難的甚至是不可能所以我也希望南投縣政府有心要解決縣內的垃圾大家都應該來協助但南投縣政府必須先了解現在南投縣政府"},{"start":648.669,"end":672.273,"text":"每天的垃圾他除了可以回收的除了大型可以再利用的除了廚餘之外他剩下多少垃圾據我現在的手上的資料他剩下應該要做這種焚化或是等等處理的垃圾大概有259噸之多那麼應該先從垃圾減量開始在尋求縣內有沒有其他的處理的量能可以擴大增建"},{"start":673.069,"end":689.96,"text":"那用這個來解決目前這259噸的垃圾再來呢他能夠跟區域的合作跟區域其他縣市做各種不同的合作方式那所有如果從這樣子從清除他的量能進行垃圾的減量必須再做一些量能的擴增"},{"start":690.88,"end":718.26,"text":"也許他有辦法來解決目前那如果南投縣政府能夠聽聽現在地方上一些人士提出這樣一個所謂複合性方式的一個方式的話那需要我們來協助行政院願意來協助南投縣政府但是這必須南投縣政府自己要承擔這樣一個地方處理垃圾的量能跟責任OK 好 謝謝院長我先請兩位部長先回座我們現在請環境部彭部長"},{"start":719.401,"end":720.682,"text":"南投县的垃圾问题"},{"start":749.381,"end":768.576,"text":"出了很大的这个问题好那之前呢刚刚那个我们卓院长真的很清楚对于南投县的这个垃圾的这个目前他可能没有很积极从源头来做这个处理这个部分我就想这是一个长久以来的这个问题"},{"start":769.296,"end":797.835,"text":"像之前我们南投县长参选人温士珍医师他提出了所谓的鸡尾酒疗法他自己本身是医生他就认为说就像治病一样比如说有癌症你可能也没有办法用单一的方式来做治疗你应该要用多元的方式来处理我在想刚刚卓院长其实也讲到了重点我在想跟我们温士珍医师的想法其实是非常的类似"},{"start":799.196,"end":820.998,"text":"是不是要設置這個焚化爐才能夠做到垃圾的去化是不是焚化爐才是唯一的途徑然後之前呢溫醫師其實他跟我做了很多的討論也做了一些這個數據的這個分析那像目前就如剛剛我們院長所提的其實我們一天我們的這個"},{"start":823.059,"end":849.39,"text":"廢棄物的總量其實是635公噸除掉處於16公噸資源回收351公噸還有巨大再利用9公噸其實我們一般垃圾每天的生產量是259公噸其中有161公噸是委外來處理剩下其實每天都還有98公噸的缺口"},{"start":849.83,"end":863.599,"text":"如果再加上之前我們也知道說南投常常發生火燒垃圾山的事情發生像全縣目前佔據的總量是32.7萬噸"},{"start":866.141,"end":891.066,"text":"那是從過去就累積下來的那其實這個數字除了說我們南投沒有焚化爐沒有去化的能力之外我在想努力不夠也是原因之一文士這麼認為因為像南投垃圾的這個問題我們之前跟文士陣營是曾經做過一些概算的那目前南投縣的資源回收率是55.24%"},{"start":893.527,"end":915.826,"text":"可是如果你參考我們台北市或雙北市的執行機關資收率台北市是67.01%新北市59.45%其實南投縣的資源回收率比雙北尤其是台北市少了整整10%"},{"start":918.942,"end":932.376,"text":"台北市可能能夠做到67.01%可是南投縣只有55.24%如果說我們可以參考雙北的做法的話是我們一起可以減少27到75噸的垃圾量"},{"start":949.637,"end":963.963,"text":"謝謝 接下來想說很多人都在說這是與南河縣的地方自治可是我想說現在有這個人對我們要去跟南河縣合作尤其是在這個熱血的位置和群體的問題"},{"start":985.222,"end":985.562,"text":"好 謝謝羅美玲"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:14:51.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:14:52.529000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請卓院長，還有財政部莊部長、農業部陳部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T16:14:52.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:14:52.909000+08:00","text":"麻煩再請卓院長、農業部、財政部備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-27T16:14:52.909000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T16:15:23.851000+08:00","text":"羅委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:15:23.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:15:24.251000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:15:24.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:15:52.936000+08:00","text":"院長，南投縣在過去一年多以來，因為跟垃圾有關的公共建設案在選址上面引起了很大的風波，其中有名間鄉焚化爐案還有埔里廢棄物掩埋場案，這兩個案子其實引起當地民眾很大的恐慌、不滿，甚至也引起很多抗爭。","quality":0.685},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:15:53.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:16:32.202000+08:00","text":"本席現在就名間焚化爐選址的幾個爭議跟各位請教，南投縣名間鄉有超過2,000公頃的茶園，也是全國有超過七成的手搖飲基底茶都是來自於名間鄉，可是南投縣政府卻要在有茶鄉美譽的名間鄉來蓋一座焚化爐，所以引起當地民眾很大的反彈，當然最近有一些抗爭，民眾也有一些疑慮。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:16:32.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:17:04.784000+08:00","text":"首先，我想請教財政部莊部長，對於土地撥用最近有很多疑慮，像民眾會認為為什麼選址的地點是在特定農業區，可是你們卻用促參法第十五條就撥給南投縣政府使用。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:17:05.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:17:29.060000+08:00","text":"當然我也有求證國產署，確確實實就是引用這一條，可是民間卻質疑該土地的撥用是有問題的，為什麼你們不是引用國有財產法第三十八條，因為其中有提到「非公用財產類之不動產，各級政府機關為公務或公共所需，得申請撥用。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:17:29.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:17:38.149000+08:00","text":"」可是有一個狀況是不得辦理撥用，就是不合區域計畫或都市計畫土地使用分區規定者。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:17:38.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:17:47.537000+08:00","text":"因為這裡是特定農業區，為什麼當初南投縣政府在申請撥用的時候，你們不是用國有財產法第三十八條，而是用促參法第十五條？","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:17:47.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:17:47.717000+08:00","text":"請部長回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-03-27T16:17:53.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:18:02.246000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，各級政府不管是中央或地方政府，只要為了公共或公務需要的話，都可以申請撥用國有土地。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-03-27T16:18:02.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:18:13.591000+08:00","text":"一般是適用國產法第三十八條，如果他要走促參模式做後續的公共建設，可以走促參法第十五條辦理撥用。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-03-27T16:18:14.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:18:25.079000+08:00","text":"不管是國產法或者是促參法辦理撥用的時候，若碰到非都市土地，依照內政部的解釋是可以先辦撥用，而不需要先辦理用地變更。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-03-27T16:18:25.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:18:36.106000+08:00","text":"但是如果土地撥去以後，後續要做用地變更、環境影響評估或開發許可等等，他依然要照程序來走。","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-03-27T16:18:36.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:18:47.552000+08:00","text":"如果這裡面的這些條件沒有辦法成就的話，讓他的撥用用途沒有辦法落實，這個時候就可以廢止撥用，把土地重新返回到國有財產署。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-03-27T16:18:48.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:19:03.160000+08:00","text":"所以這個撥用基本上是讓他去走後面程序而先完成的部分，後面程序都不會受影響，都還是一樣要去做他的用地變更也好，環境影響評估等都必須要去落實。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:19:03.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:19:15.886000+08:00","text":"我想請教部長，當初南投縣政府依據促參法第十五條申請撥用的時候，那時候就是很明確地說要在這裡設置焚化爐嗎？","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:19:15.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:19:16.746000+08:00","text":"是這樣子嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-03-27T16:19:16.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:19:22.789000+08:00","text":"是，在撥用的時候，他必須把做什麼樣的用途在撥用計畫裡面要明白敘述。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:19:24.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:19:28.719000+08:00","text":"所以當時他在申請的時候，你們不會考慮其他因素嗎？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:19:29.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:19:34.280000+08:00","text":"比如說，它是特定農業區也許不適合，你們不會考慮這些其他因素嗎？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:19:36.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:19:42.942000+08:00","text":"只要符合促參法第十五條，你們就來辦理，其他的你們都不考慮是不是？","quality":0.655},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-03-27T16:19:43.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:19:57.847000+08:00","text":"在非都市土地的部分並不會要求，但是後續撥去以後，他要做的用途依然要按照土地使用管制規定，以及環評、開發許可等等各項條件，都必須要具備，他才能夠用。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-03-27T16:19:58.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:20:03.156000+08:00","text":"如果這些條件不具備，他沒有辦法用的時候，土地就會辦理廢止撥用，交回到國有財產署。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:20:04.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:20:12.411000+08:00","text":"好，那這樣子聽起來，說實在的，我們要尋求財政部這邊的協助看來是沒有希望。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:20:12.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:20:34.398000+08:00","text":"我想請教農業部陳部長，因為這個焚化爐的預定地是在特定農業區，它涉及的是2,000公頃的茶產業，所以農業部一定要有態度，剛剛莊部長已經說了，可能要等到後續，當然我們知道，聽起來是撥用，不一定可以直接興建。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:20:36.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:20:43.122000+08:00","text":"這個部分我想請問，因為我不曉得南投縣政府到目前為止，所謂的計畫書有沒有送到中央？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:20:45.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:20:48.785000+08:00","text":"這個計畫送到中央之後，農業部要如何把關？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:20:50.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:21:00.451000+08:00","text":"這是攸關全國手搖飲產業的未來，我在想農業部一定要有態度，我想請教部長，這部分後面如何把關？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-27T16:21:02.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:21:02.412000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-27T16:21:03.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:21:08.335000+08:00","text":"第一個就是土地的撥用不代表就可以農地變更，這是非常明確的，因為根據……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:21:08.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:21:11.237000+08:00","text":"他會到農業部這邊申請……是向內政部還是農業部？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-27T16:21:11.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:21:31.670000+08:00","text":"對，根據相關的農發條例，如果是特農區的話，原則上是不可以變更的，但是如果是做公共事業興建，我們會針對他提出來的公共事業是不是具有合理性、必要性跟不可替代性。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-27T16:21:32.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:21:51.366000+08:00","text":"我舉個例子，以這三個要件審查是否符合公共建設的標的，不可替代性的意思就是說，像今天他要興建焚化廠，則是不是整個南投縣焚化垃圾的處理一定要興建一個焚化廠呢？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-27T16:21:52.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:21:53.308000+08:00","text":"這是第一個說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-27T16:21:53.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:22:29.522000+08:00","text":"第二個說明就是就農業部的立場，他在這個區域想要興建焚化爐，但是這個周遭地區我們也盤點了，就像委員所說的，茶產區大概是占兩千兩百多公頃，整個南投縣六千四百多公頃的茶是占全國茶產區的一半，53%左右，所以是非常重要的茶產區，而這個茶產區又特別是我們商業用茶基底的主要原料，占了將近90%，所以後續的影響會很大。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-27T16:22:29.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:23:20.421000+08:00","text":"第三個更重要的是，這個地區是石虎的生態熱區，如果興建時影響到這些石虎熱區，就會回到我剛才一開始講的，我們會做三個審查，合理性、必要性跟不可替代性，以這樣的情勢來看，目前他還沒有送審，未來審查的時候，第一個是要通過環評，環評跟農地變更是平行去審的，但是環評在審查的時候一定會徵求農業部的意見，而我們農業部的意見剛才已經表達得非常清楚；另外，即使環評過了，進到真正的農地變更時，我們還是會再次審查合理性、必要性跟不可替代性。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:23:21.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:23:36.763000+08:00","text":"目前來講，環團也好或者是當地民眾，都希望現階段中央能夠立即阻止這件事情繼續發展下去，因為他可能還有很多流程要跑。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:23:37.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:23:42.966000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下，中央政府在這個階段有什麼可以著力的地方嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:23:42.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:23:58.414000+08:00","text":"還是要像部長所講的，一定要等他送計畫來，進入審查會，然後我們再來做審查、提意見，針對種種因素，提出我們的意見，我們只能在那個階段的時候做點什麼事，那麼現階段呢？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:23:58.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:24:01.656000+08:00","text":"您認為以農業部來講的話，只能呼籲南投縣政府懸崖勒馬，還是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-27T16:24:09.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:24:14.925000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，因為案子沒有送進來，表示沒有這個案子，只是他們準備做這樣的規劃……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:24:14.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:24:16.726000+08:00","text":"是，目前他們準備做這個……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-27T16:24:16.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:24:47.052000+08:00","text":"對，所以在準備規劃的時候，我們在不同的時間點其實已經非常清楚地表達農業部的立場，原則上在特農區是不適合興建的，特別是有爭議的焚化廠，對於不可替代性的部分，他必須要更謹慎地去檢討，也就是說是不是一定要設掩埋場或是焚化爐才能夠解決當地的垃圾問題，他必須要清楚地說明。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:24:47.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:25:11.747000+08:00","text":"OK，所以我們是希望，等到他們真的把計畫送出來，因為我們看到的是，前面的階段他大概都一直在進行當中，我們聽起來中央政府這裡要等到他的計畫進來之後，你們才可能做整個的審視、才可以就你們專業的立場提供意見，部長，現在您講的是這樣子嘛？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-27T16:25:11.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:25:12.687000+08:00","text":"對，相關的規定是如此。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-27T16:25:14.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:25:35.686000+08:00","text":"報告委員，針對特定農業區農業部是非常的謹慎，必定要經過層層的把關而且通過各種的條件才有辦法變更，目前看起來農業部採取的是相當清楚的立場，要變更是非常、非常困難的，甚至是不可能的，所以我也希望，南投縣政府有心要解決縣內的垃圾，大家都應該來協助。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-27T16:25:36.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:26:13.615000+08:00","text":"但南投縣政府必須先了解，現在南投縣每天的垃圾除了可以回收的、除了大型可以再利用的、除了廚餘之外剩下多少垃圾，據我現在手上的資料，它剩下應該要做這種焚化或是相關處理的垃圾大概有259噸之多，所以應該先從垃圾減量開始，再尋求縣內有沒有其他的處理量能可以再擴大、增建，就這個來解決目前這259噸的垃圾；再來，它能夠跟區域合作，跟其他縣市做各種不同的合作方式。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-27T16:26:14.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:26:41.194000+08:00","text":"如果這樣子來做，從清楚它的量能、進行垃圾的減量，再做一些量能的擴增，也許他有辦法來解決目前的狀況，如果南投縣政府能夠聽聽現在一些地方人士提出這樣一個所謂複合性方式的話，屆時需要我們協助的，行政院願意來協助南投縣政府，但是必須南投縣政府自己要承擔這樣一個地方處理垃圾的量能跟責任。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:26:42.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:26:49.260000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，我請兩位部長先回座，現在請環境部彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:26:49.260000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T16:27:26.406000+08:00","text":"南投縣的垃圾問題真的是非常嚴重，確確實實我們長久以來也希望地方政府也可以有自主去化的能力，現階段我們面臨的問題其實就是選址的問題，他的選址出了問題，不管是現在名間焚化爐的選址或者是埔里掩埋場的選址，其實南投縣政府都出了很大的問題！","quality":0.092},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:27:26.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:27:59.549000+08:00","text":"剛剛卓院長真的很清楚南投縣的垃圾目前可能沒有很積極從源頭來做處理的部分，我想這是一個長久以來的問題，像之前我們南投縣長參選人溫世政醫師提出了所謂的雞尾酒療法，他自己本身是醫生，他認為就像治病一樣，比如癌症可能也沒有辦法用單一的方式來治療，應該要用多元的方式來處理。","quality":0.648},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:28:01.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:28:19.766000+08:00","text":"剛剛卓院長其實也講到了重點，跟溫世政醫師的想法其實非常類似，關於是不是要設置焚化爐才能夠做到垃圾的去化、焚化爐才是唯一的途徑？","quality":0.746},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:28:20.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T16:30:23.356000+08:00","text":"之前溫醫師跟我做了很多的討論，也做了一些數據分析，目前就如同剛剛院長所提的，一天的廢棄物總量是635公噸，除掉廚餘16公噸、資源回收351公噸、還有巨大再利用9公噸，其實一般垃圾每天的生產量是259公噸，其中有161公噸是委外處理，剩下的其實每天都還有98公噸的缺口，如果再加上之前的，我們也知道南投常常發生火燒垃圾山的事情，像全縣目前暫置的總量是32.7萬噸，那是從過去就累積下來，其實這個數字除了表示我們南投沒有焚化爐、沒有去化的能力之外，我在想努力不夠也是原因之一，我們是這麼認為，因為像南投的垃圾問題，我們之前跟溫世政醫師曾經做過一些概算，目前南投縣的資源回收率是55.24%，可是如果你參考我們臺北市或雙北市的執行機關資收率，臺北市是67.01%，新北市是59.45%，其實南投縣的資源回收率比雙北，尤其是臺北市，少了整整10%，臺北市夠做到67.01%、可是南投縣只有55.24%，如果我們可以參考雙北的做法的話，預期可以減少27到75噸的垃圾量，時間到了……","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-27T16:30:23.856000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T16:30:42.713143+08:00","text":"報告羅委員，地方的人士關心地方事務，提出公共政策的意見，我希望南投縣政府能夠來重視、能夠深入的討論，如果需要行政院來協助，我們願意居間來協助，謝謝。","quality":0.03},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-03-27T16:30:43.013143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T16:31:16.441714+08:00","text":"是，很多人都說這個屬於南投縣的地方自治，可是我想中央也有責任要去跟地方來做溝通，尤其是面對垃圾的問題、選舉的問題，可能後續還是會碰到很多的抗爭，這是我們不願意看到的，所以我們希望現階段從源頭減量的部分來做起，因為我們真的覺得南投縣政府做得不夠，以上，謝謝！","quality":0.231},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T16:31:16.741714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T16:31:23.884571+08:00","text":"謝謝羅美玲委員質詢，謝謝卓院長跟相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T16:31:24.184571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T16:31:37.613143+08:00","text":"報告院會，我們本日排定的質詢委員均已經質詢完畢，再次謝謝卓院長、鄭副院長以及各部會列席的首長列席答詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T16:31:37.913143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T16:31:45.056000+08:00","text":"3月31號（星期二）上午9點，我們繼續進行施政方針及施政報告質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T16:31:45.356000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T16:31:54.784571+08:00","text":"再次謝謝許宇甄委員、張智倫委員陪同我們一起參與今天的施政質詢，現在休息。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T16:31:55.084571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T16:31:56.227429+08:00","text":"休息（16時31分）","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}