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因為他這個當然會不會出現在這個西南方我們還不知道"},{"start":273.592,"end":289.818,"text":"因為就最近嘛就三月初的時候呢那其實在這邊往更偏東的位置也有發生過一樣的事情那我覺得這是一個值得密切關注啦那國防部不一定要把這個到底我們是怎麼分析啦我們認為應該怎麼做全盤的透露但總之這是一個值得注意的現象"},{"start":290.918,"end":316.164,"text":"另外我想問一下全棟鼠因為我看到波蘭現在有一個全民自願國防訓練計畫這個計畫裡面它就講到說有急救、應對的機制什麼之類的畢竟波蘭現在跟我們面臨到的威脅非常類似它就做了兩個它自己取的名字一個叫任性之路一個叫後備之路"},{"start":316.784,"end":328.156,"text":"我相信後備這個部分大概台灣有做跟他雷同的事情太多了而且我們的兵役的制度跟他不太相同所以但他有一個叫韌性之路這個韌性之路他裡面就特別提到說比如說要增強這個社會的韌性這個有幾門課可以選擇然後這個團體的訓練然後要怎麼去搭配新的專案的要求"},{"start":340.768,"end":359.295,"text":"我稍微整理了一下就是呢它有安全的課程有急救的課程有生存的課程有資安的課程那因為在台灣這一個部分有一些是衛福部在做有一些是內政部在做但畢竟我們這邊有一個權動署算是一個有點像是指揮協調整個的單位那我相信"},{"start":359.855,"end":382.906,"text":"可能因為波蘭這個計畫很新我看波蘭最近的國防預算也是一直增加他已經要到4%了然後他2026年4月然後最近才開始這一系列的課程所以他到底效益如何這個也是我們可以去評估那目前來講我們因為民間有很多這個我以前在民間我最熟民間有很多這種課程但是我的期待一直都是這不應該是民間"},{"start":384.988,"end":401.37,"text":"這應該就是政府來做那今天政府如果要來做這件事情跟內政部的協調還有國防部這邊的大戰略的策略到底是什麼現在國際看起來都在往這個方向走所以是不是權動署可以先做一個簡單的說明然後我待會再問一小部分跟後備有關的"},{"start":404.099,"end":426.858,"text":"首先剛剛就聽了委員的說明大概跟我們了解的是一致的他這個訓練的計畫不管是任性之路或者是後備之路他最主要的目的就是有兩個第一個就是提升全民的一個國防防衛意識第二個就是要來強化這個後備軍人的一個作戰能力"},{"start":427.498,"end":453.82,"text":"那他最終的目的呢就是要來備戰因為他看到烏克蘭被俄羅斯入侵的這個那我們看了他的這些課程就是安全、生存、急救這些治安的這些課程其實跟我們的全社會防衛任性現在正在推的各種這些計畫或者是訓練民間的訓練是不謀而合的比如說這個"},{"start":456.861,"end":480.989,"text":"這個內政部他在108年就開始有這個這個防災式的訓練那從去年開始他又擴大擴大除了這些我們各層級的這些消防人員他要做之外還有替代役跟這19個民間的這些團體比如說慈濟紅十字他都一起來搭配來做那去年他本來是要"},{"start":482.349,"end":503.253,"text":"10萬人他已經超過了11萬人那我們國防部也搭配內政部在所有的義務役的義難不管四個月或一個月的一年的在這個入伍的就有這個戰傷急救那到了下部隊之後兩週之內要完成這個防災防災式的這個訓練那這個訓練一樣都是在強化我們的社會韌性強化我們的社會韌性"},{"start":510.914,"end":529.081,"text":"至於後備的這一部分其實委員剛才也提到我們在今年開始都14天那也都在戰術位置報導首席作戰計畫希望這樣子的一個訓練模式將來我們的後備動員之後它就是一個集戰你可以馬上投入作戰我先這樣補充"},{"start":530.141,"end":548.489,"text":"那這個就是我稍微很快速的問一下就是說後備這個部分就他們在講後備的時候他們有這個無人機的預備版那因為當然我們現在當然我們一直在討論無人機我們在我們年度的預算也有無人機然後我們在這一個特別預算那特別預算那一個不是我們一般可以操縱的無人機"},{"start":549.349,"end":569.979,"text":"那關於這一個無人機的軍事預備班他們最主要是重量不超過5公斤的非常小型的然後我看他在16所學校也有先做一些示範從今年4月開始然後另外一個就是網路團這個我在之前質詢有提過因為在烏克蘭他們也有這樣做就是他除了原本比如說像我們的直通電本來就有專長的人嘛"},{"start":570.499,"end":591.244,"text":"他去跟民間原本的去開啟這個協作的關係這個協作的關係指的是說如果今天有任何災害發生的時候今天國軍跟這些所謂民間的這一個懂網路的能夠做這個網路的預備的能夠做攻擊防守的這一些人有沒有一個協調跟運作的機制"},{"start":593.505,"end":620.383,"text":"那這個在烏克蘭它是形成一個非常大的它是由國防部來主導那這個看起來並不是在我們現在直接的計畫所以那如果他們現在開始這樣做我知道我們有做一些簡單的這個無人機的訓練那我們的人才我們的能不能夠有適當就是那個充足的這個飛手跟我們有沒有夠多的比如說網路站的人才可以從民間做吸納這方面現在的規劃大概如何簡單的跟國人說明一下"},{"start":620.643,"end":639.14,"text":"跟委員報告一下現在有關無人機的這些非操守他在就是他以前在民間有這個專長那他如果退伍之後我們先把他列入邊管那後續在他就是進入教育召集的時候我們可能把這些人納入這個訓練的一個範圍跟範疇那加強他的在職的訓練這邊跟委員做簡單的那網路這一個部分呢"},{"start":648.834,"end":671.426,"text":"這個部分都是,跟委員報告,這個都在我們的子民申選的那一塊跟委員報告,我當然要說明一下就是說這些有特殊專長,而且是我們一定要,我們會把它放入子民所以它即使是,就是說它一個兵退伍那如果它是具有這樣我們認為急需的專長,我們把它納入子民"},{"start":671.986,"end":697.443,"text":"那現在後備的部分我們會把鞭屎動員做為後續第一個項目所以將這個常備部隊的鞭屎部分立即集戰化這個也是第二個重點大致上我們會按照一個順序然後接下來當然是首備旅後面再來是後備旅所以您剛剛講的這些專長包括他有一個重要的比如說無人機的專長或者是網路站特別是網路站我們會把這些人做一個"},{"start":698.638,"end":724.398,"text":"完全的管制然後把它納入指名召集的部分那最後一點就是說呢當然就是除了我們能夠找到人才我們開始有這樣的一個編組之外我們也要給一定的誘因所以這剛剛定語文有提到的這個或許我們來跟財政部真的是可以來討論一下我們去增強那個誘因我覺得對他們來講的話他們更願意來加入是 這個要跟財政部溝通對 這跟財政部溝通好 謝謝部長因為時間差不多謝謝主席 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:18:08.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:18:09.226000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請顧部長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-30T10:18:09.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:18:09.306000+08:00","text":"請顧部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:18:09.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:18:09.326000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:18:09.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:18:09.487000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:18:09.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:18:59.470000+08:00","text":"今天算是發生比較多大事啦，我剛剛看到新聞稿說習近平跟鄭麗文有可能要見面了，我覺得這是令人悲傷的事情，就是說，上個禮拜我們不斷的在協調這些軍購相關的事項，看起來都無法達成共識，這個無法達成共識造成我們國防整個進度的拖延，這其實就是中國想要的啦，一旦造成了拖延，結果現在發布這樣的一個消息，說兩邊要見面，我覺得這個是一個國之不幸啦。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:19:00.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:20:06.649000+08:00","text":"但另外一方面我們也看到，剛剛定宇委員也有提到，就是盧秀燕市長有特別提到他贊成這樣的國防預算，8,000億到1兆，這是他在接受專訪時特別提到的，這個部分，我覺得也請國防部可能要稍微了解一下，不知道為什麼盧秀燕市長有這麼大的轉變，因為畢竟這個條例早在去年就已經被提出了，這個條例從去年提出到現在，過了很長一段時間，他們一開始的講法是一毛都不要給，然後後來講說可能可以三、四千億，後來又有一陣子說可以到8,000億，今天說可以到1兆，我覺得他到底坐哪一個班機，那個班機上面放什麼電影，是不是可以稍微了解一下，不然的話，為什麼坐一趟飛機，人就可以做那麼大的一個改變，我覺得這是一個很奇異的事情，當然我們期待這樣的事情發生，也期待他跟國民黨的黨團、傅崐萁或者跟他們的主席好好討論這件事情，不然這樣的延宕對我們來講其實是一個很大的問題。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:20:06.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:20:32.565000+08:00","text":"接下來，今天的題目雖然是在講整個預算的平衡，但我相信在上個禮拜三、四的協商過程中已經討論了很多，先問幾個小的問題，第一個是去年年底有2,000艘中國的漁船集結成倒L型的隊伍，這邊有一個很簡單的影片show出它的異常狀況。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:20:32.565000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-30T10:20:39.884000+08:00","text":"（播放影片）","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:20:39.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:20:56.700000+08:00","text":"照理說這些漁船移動的方式應該是比較凌亂的，但我們可以看到它慢慢形成倒L型，其實對任何關心海事的人都會認為這個形成的過程是異常現象。","quality":0.613},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:21:00.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:21:22.278000+08:00","text":"我們看到它的縱深大概是200英里的長方形，而且長達30個小時，所以這絕對是帶有軍事色彩的漁船協調操演，我相信海巡有一定程度的對應，雖然已經過了一段時間，我想問國防部目前對這件事情的對應是什麼？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:21:22.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:21:23.139000+08:00","text":"我們的分析是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:21:23.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:22:36.891000+08:00","text":"我們可以看到這個活動海域主要是位於中、日間的敏感海域，這樣的行為看起來有高度的組織化，我們都知道中共有運用海上民兵，就是用漁船作為海上民兵，所以他是不是企圖在演練對特定海域的控制能力，這是值得我們關注的，當然更值得我們關注的應該是有沒有在臺海周邊運用相同的模式進行大規模的集結，這部分是我們要注意的，所以我們會運用所有相關的情監偵系統全程掌握這些動態，了解它是一個灰色地帶的襲擾還是有準備再做進一步的後續，這個部分的徵候是我們要密切關注的。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:22:37.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:22:56.798000+08:00","text":"對，當然我們還不知道它會不會出現在西南方，但是3月初的時候，其實在這邊往更偏東的位置也有發生過一樣的事情，我覺得這值得密切關注，國防部不一定要把我們到底怎麼分析及認為應該如何對應作全盤的透露，總之，這是一個值得注意的現象。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:22:57.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:23:23.144000+08:00","text":"另外，我想詢問全動署，因為我看到波蘭現在有一個全民自願國防訓練計畫，這個計畫裡面有講到急救、應對的機制之類，畢竟波蘭跟我們現在面臨到的威脅非常類似，他自己取了兩個名字：一個叫韌性之路；一個叫後備之路。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:23:23.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:23:35.136000+08:00","text":"我相信後備的部分，臺灣有做雷同的事情太多了，而且我們的兵役制度不太相同，但他的韌性之路有特別提到要增強社會的韌性，包含有幾門課可以選擇、團體的訓練以及要如何搭配新的專案要求。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:23:47.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:24:05.555000+08:00","text":"我稍微整理了一下，它有安全、急救、生存及資安的課程，因為這個部分在臺灣有一些是衛福部在做，有一些是內政部在做，但畢竟我們有一個全動署，有點像是整個指揮、協調的單位。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:24:07.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:24:21.462000+08:00","text":"因為波蘭這個計畫很新，波蘭最近的國防預算也是一直增加，已經快到4%了，他是2026年4月才開始這一系列的課程，所以他的效益到底如何，我們也可以去評估。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:24:22.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:24:29.906000+08:00","text":"目前民間有很多這個……我以前在民間我最熟，民間有很多這種課程，但是我的期待一直都是：這不應該是民間啦！","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:24:31.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:24:32.769000+08:00","text":"應該由政府來做。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:24:33.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:24:41.280000+08:00","text":"今天政府如果要來做這件事情，跟內政部的協調還有國防部的大戰略策略到底是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:24:41.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:24:45.646000+08:00","text":"現在看起來國際都在往這個方向走，所以是不是全動署可以先做簡單的說明？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:24:46.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:24:48.350000+08:00","text":"我待會再問一小部分跟後備有關的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-03-30T10:24:48.350000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-30T10:24:51.099000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-03-30T10:24:51.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:25:13.838000+08:00","text":"首先剛剛聽了委員的說明，跟我們的了解是一致的，波蘭的訓練計畫不管是韌性之路或是後備之路，最主要的目的有兩個：第一，提升全民的國防防衛意識；第二，強化後備軍人的作戰能力。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-03-30T10:25:14.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:25:20.723000+08:00","text":"最終的目的就是要備戰，因為他看到烏克蘭被俄羅斯入侵。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-03-30T10:25:23.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:25:40.560000+08:00","text":"我們看他的這些安全、生存、急救及資安課程，其實跟我們的全社會防衛韌性，即現在正在推動的各種計畫或者民間的訓練是不謀而合的。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-03-30T10:25:40.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:25:58.546000+08:00","text":"比如內政部在108年就開始有防災士的訓練，從去年開始又擴大，除了各層級的消防人員要受訓之外……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:25:58.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:25:59.206000+08:00","text":"還有替代役。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-03-30T10:26:00.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:26:11.990000+08:00","text":"他也跟19個民間的團體，比如慈濟、紅十字等一起搭配來做，去年本來目標是10萬人，他已經超過了，是11萬人。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-03-30T10:26:12.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:26:56.061000+08:00","text":"國防部也搭配內政部，所有不管是4個月或1年的義務役役男，在入伍時就有戰傷急救，到了下部隊兩週之內要完成防災士的訓練，這些訓練一樣都是在強化我們的社會韌性，至於後備的部分，委員剛才也提到在今年開始都是14天，也都在戰術位置報到、熟悉作戰計畫，希望透過這樣的訓練模式，將來我們的後備動員之後就是一個即戰力，可以馬上投入作戰，先這樣補充。","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:26:58.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:27:24.793000+08:00","text":"好，我很快速的詢問後備的部分，他們講的後備之路有無人機的預備班，現在一直在討論無人機，我們年度預算有無人機，特別預算也有，但特別預算購買的不是一般人可以操縱的無人機，關於這種無人機的軍事預備班最主要是重量不超過5公斤、屬非常小型的，他們從今年4月開始在16所學校也有先做試辦。","quality":0.718},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:27:27.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:27:58.224000+08:00","text":"另外就是網路團，我在之前質詢也有提過，因為在烏克蘭也有這樣做，比如除了國軍原本有的資通電專長人才，他跟民間開啟協作的關係，協作的關係指的是，今天如果有任何災害發生的時候，國軍跟這些民間懂網路的人員──能夠做網路預備及攻擊防守的這些人，有協調及運作的機制。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:28:00.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:28:18.757000+08:00","text":"這部分在烏克蘭是形成一個非常大……是由國防部主導，這些看起來並不在我們現在直接的計畫內，如果他們現在開始這樣做……我知道我們有做一些簡單的無人機的訓練，在人才方面，我們能不能夠有適當及充足的飛手？","quality":0.888},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:28:19.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:28:24.481000+08:00","text":"以及比如有沒有足夠多的網路戰人才可以從民間吸納？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:28:24.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:28:26.002000+08:00","text":"這方面的規劃大概如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:28:26.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:28:27.363000+08:00","text":"簡單的跟國人說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"薛參謀長淵銓","start":"2026-03-30T10:28:27.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:28:45.199000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，現在有關無人機的飛操手，就是以前在民間有這方面專長的人退伍之後，我們先把他列入編管，後續在他進入教育召集時，我們可能把這些人納入相關訓練的範圍跟範疇，加強他的在職訓練，這邊跟委員做簡單的說明。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:28:45.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:28:46.120000+08:00","text":"好，網路的部分呢？謝謝。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:28:57.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:29:17.765000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這些都在指名甄選的那一塊，我們會把這些有特殊專長而且是我們一定要的人才放入指名，所以即使他已經退伍，如果是具有我們認為急需的專長會納入指名。","quality":0.746},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:29:19.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:29:34.657000+08:00","text":"後備的部分，我們會把編實動員作為後續的第一個項目，所以將常備部隊的編實部分立即即戰化也是第二個重點，大致上我們會按照順序，接下來當然是守備旅，再來是後備旅。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:29:35.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:29:48.420000+08:00","text":"所以您剛剛講的這些專長，包括他有一個重要的……比如無人機的專長或者是網路戰，特別是網路戰，我們會把這些人做完全的管制並納入指名召集。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:29:49.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:30:04.052000+08:00","text":"最後一點，當然就是除了我們能夠找到人才開始有這樣的編組之外，我們也要給予一定的誘因，這個剛剛定宇委員有提到，或許真的是可以來跟財政部討論一下，去增強那個誘因，我覺得對他們來講，他們會更願意來加入。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:30:05.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:30:08.115000+08:00","text":"是，這個要跟財政部溝通。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-03-30T10:30:09.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:30:11.378000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-30T10:30:11.878000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-30T10:30:14.735143+08:00","text":"謝謝沈伯洋委員的發言。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-30T10:30:15.035143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-30T10:30:17.320857+08:00","text":"請馬文君委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}