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有請我們司法院高秘書長好 請高秘書長還有我們司法行政廳吳廳長法務部檢察司司長"},{"start":29.612,"end":47.347,"text":"那今天我看我們翁小玲召委今天排這樣的一個專題的一個報告其實代表我們立法院對於整個法庭實務所發生的事情其實都表達及時的一個關心整個制度怎麼樣來建制 這個其實是非常重要的一件事情"},{"start":47.947,"end":74.442,"text":"那我想這次台中地院這樣的一個發生暴力事件那雖然是這個打得耳光的是這個律師公會的一個理事長那只是這個是剛好對象讓社會引起注目那其實不管是不是打到這個律師公會的理事長或者是律師或者一般民眾這個都必須要來特別來做一個看看制度上需不需要如何來做一個精進的一個問題"},{"start":75.603,"end":94.058,"text":"那我看這次大家看到這樣的一個事件爆發以後本席的看法就有點不太一樣應該是從整個制度的一個根本來看我一直都認為說這個法警這個法警到底以現在來看的話"},{"start":95.479,"end":124.931,"text":"這一次大家的評論是在說律師批評現場法警沒有用現行犯去逮捕那後續的開刑就變成一個不公開的一個審理了那律師公會全聯會也呼籲司法院去正式建立對律師人身安全防護的一個機制是對律師的安全防護必須要這個機制要去建立對一般進入到這個法庭的人身的一個防衛機制都必須要去做一個建立啦那光去譴責我看意義不大"},{"start":125.691,"end":144.665,"text":"那基層的法警會講說我只是穿著警察的制服而已但是我的職權跟法源跟警察完全都不一樣我不曉得秘書長怎麼去看待這件事情以現在法警的定位跟職權來看的話"},{"start":147.861,"end":175.176,"text":"我三十年前也開始就在這個法院裡面這樣在行使律師的一個職務但是呢我相信法警它其實它真正的一個職務其實在支援整個審判的一個工作那支援這個審判工作呢也就是說它的角色其實跟它在服務整個審判秩序的一個維持那跟一般的警察那是完全不一樣的"},{"start":175.876,"end":179.182,"text":"那你警察是負責治安的維護啊犯罪偵查啊收集證據啊那我看這三個你認為會跟法警會有所異樣嗎我請教秘書長"},{"start":187.946,"end":205.399,"text":"謝謝委員提到這個法警的工作當然跟一般警察是完全不一樣就像陳茹這個委員所說的他重要是在法院的審判所以我的意思是你司法院跟法務部這邊的間諜其實是一樣的法警跟警察"},{"start":205.999,"end":215.641,"text":"他的職權是完全是不同的啦那你制度上來講的話你說他不是警察但實務上的話你看這次大家就要求你就必須要用警察的一個標準來看待這件事情了在要求這些法警這個我看起來也是不通你說一般法院跟檢察署會發生一些突發的狀況被告會脫逃或者是你在候審室裡面可能會產生一些衝突或者被告他也有可能自傷啊他也有可能去傷人啊"},{"start":235.026,"end":254.638,"text":"那甚至於就大家擔心的結球的問題那這一些你說全部要要求我們現在的法警去在現場做第一線的處理如果站在法警的立場來看的話那他到底有沒有足夠的法定權限可以處理這第一個要去思考的地方那第二個就是說"},{"start":256.661,"end":264.475,"text":"我看你法務部跟司法院你們其實應該好好去回答社會的是說如果沒有明確的司法授權的話"},{"start":266.325,"end":269.767,"text":"你這個法警發生這種事情的話,搞不好他還要打110,還要等警察來幫忙處理,那這個空窗期的責任到底誰來負的問題。所以這個職權的部分,法務部跟司法院這邊你們的看法到底是什麼,有什麼樣的法源依據,來要求我們這些法警。"},{"start":290.167,"end":305.539,"text":"其實就關於維持法庭秩序這個部分像執庭執行警衛解送人犯還有那個司法警察事務這是刑事訴訟法其實在解送人犯這個整個過程就涵蓋了"},{"start":306.434,"end":335.661,"text":"那個候審室的維護安全那解送人犯中秩序的維持他是有有授權的唯一其實最大沒有授權就誠如委員所說的在那個法院法庭外的空間這一塊是都沒有所以我們必須要這個部分要讓在希望能夠在法院組織法明確規定讓法警有法院依據不要再遲疑"},{"start":336.383,"end":361.894,"text":"那我相信你這樣 我看你可能到立法院來出燈板嘛其實很誠懇啦那翁委員其實他弄這樣一個專報的話我相信他也會支持你啦立法院也會去支持但是碰到一個問題喔你說立法院我們朝野我跟翁委員我們兩個來支持你們大部分大家應該比較不會有反對的一個意見這個沒有黨派之分嘛但問題有一個就是說"},{"start":365.296,"end":388.771,"text":"我全部給你的職權達到跟一般警察一樣啦或者維護整個法庭的一個秩序這個民眾也認為該去做一個確保可是你看現在缺員的問題啊你這個欠人你不要跟他說是我以前剛在當小律師的時候我看到以前那個台北地檢那個是光頭警長嘛對吧我想說他多大你知道嗎"},{"start":390.434,"end":417.059,"text":"結果他是委任還是五職等還是六職等而已六到六職等那也就是說呢法警長到七我的意思是說你法警的人力其實是不足啦是穿衣服衫好看而已啦真的是穿衣服衫好看而已啊你的待遇跟一般警察也不能比啊你的位階關節也不能比啊那你說你要留住人力那所以呢你這個喔"},{"start":418.086,"end":429.428,"text":"工作量也會增加啦你檢查機關或者是法院你這個人力調度多你必須要去大幅的增加我看你們這幾年是好像請了保全了嗎"},{"start":430.644,"end":457.061,"text":"對,跟委員報告,真的委員指到我們的痛點剛剛委員是講法源,說講法源其實同樣的,人力,法警的人力絕對不足那為什麼人力不足?我們受到總原額法控制住是對,根本我們剩不到一百個餘額可以用了其實各法院如果這樣算起來的話你法警要增加,真的是我們是抓金劍走的"},{"start":458.358,"end":486.977,"text":"總原額法的一個限制這當然是你們現在碰到一個最大的一個問題啦那其實喔我看整個從2016年整個刑事訴訟法的一個變革以後啊你說夜間不詢問制度上路以後啊你法院本來就比較長的時間你必須要去戒護這個羈押的一個被告那還有你看現在社會發生了這麼多集團性的一個犯罪以後人也人數也越來越多"},{"start":488.839,"end":504.668,"text":"那監察院又去糾正你們不能用借物為理由對被告任意施用借據否則就是違反公民跟政治權利國際公約的一個人權保障監察院講這個有他的道理可是會增加你們在整個實務上的一個困難"},{"start":505.649,"end":528.352,"text":"那你看大法官會議解釋785號他就講說你工作時間的上限加班的一個上限輪班間隔的部分這個輪班的一個公務員更換次序至少要連續11個小時的休息的一個時間從刑事訴訟法的制度的變革到整個社會集團性案件的一個暴增然後再"},{"start":529.85,"end":549.902,"text":"監察院再踢你們一腳,然後在整個大法官會議又跟你講說,有這樣的一個限制以後,讓你們更難去做人力的一個調配啦。但是,總原額法裡面,它當然是框住的。再來看看怎麼突破。但是呢,現狀之下呢,其實裡面還是可以有一些作為啦。"},{"start":550.382,"end":569.692,"text":"像譬如說訓練啊一般的專業訓練的方式你要怎麼去做一個提升讓法警雖然他本個工作性質跟警察不同不能畫上等號可是總是讓他對於整個勤務的流程突發的狀況該怎麼處理你們這些訓練的部分譬如說特定的訓練啊平常的訓練啊你們會說有"},{"start":576.736,"end":595.056,"text":"有的你也沒有一個規定出來,沒有一個制度出來,像譬如說我訓練的目的到底要幹什麼,時間要多長,去做一個規劃的話,把他們整個訓練把它給提升了,我相信對你們還是有幫助的,尤其是人不夠,心碎的部分。"},{"start":597.378,"end":624.446,"text":"像這一些 如果沒有去做一個妥善的一個因應的話人要因緣 你要救母 我不拿秘書 阿媳 法務部你們的看法是怎麼樣是辛苦 沒錯當然訓練 我們是剛剛已經都講 一定是加強再加強那薪水部分能夠提高 當然希望大院 還有我們行政院能夠支持這個是最好的這個 你看一般來看的話 你如果訓練不足的話"},{"start":626.883,"end":632.359,"text":"你這個實在是這種狀況你要避免它發生也很困難可是本席的看法是這樣"},{"start":633.618,"end":661.978,"text":"我跟汪委員對不管是各行政部門裡面人手的部分其實我們大部分都是在支持你們因為你常常你讓你一個制度喔讓一個在這邊從事這個工作的人對他的職業我看不到前景啊我看不到前景那你就變成你要讓他如何去看到那個前景然後降低那個流動率喔這個是行政部門在缺人手你首先要去解決的啦你這個如果沒有去解決的話說其他的喔"},{"start":663.539,"end":691.338,"text":"不好了 是那個官等那麼低啦薪水就是這樣子啦工作時間還是那麼還是那麼長啦啊 大家要做的事情要是一樣這麼多啦你說 這樣要怎麼維護整個法庭的一個安全品質原木求魚你做一個總結看看 我要聽聽你的看法第一個 當然訓練措施我們剛剛一直提 一直提 一直提我們絕對要做到那再來委員提到的 怎麼"},{"start":692.739,"end":716.276,"text":"讓法警願意投入這個工作只等薪水真的是我們是要求各機關來共同達成一個士氣的維護薪水一定是最重要的那訓練部分是司法院該做的我們絕對務實讓各法院一定要照一個環節一個環節一個環節的仔細去落實"},{"start":719.518,"end":738.518,"text":"這樣你安提出來嗎?你不能在這邊答覆啊剛剛跟那個報告說我們那個給各法院的強化措施是我們下禮拜就頒布給各法院那剛剛另外一個委員質疑的我們的各項的小節的精進方法我們一個月內那個是訓練那很好"},{"start":741.081,"end":757.518,"text":"我相信 翁委員跟我所關注的就是說你人 素質要體性 人要有膏你那個官等 穿著衣服看起來像警察他只是法定職權 又不是警察你怎麼樣留住這些人 讓他們看到他們整個職業的一個前景這你要有補啊 不然在這裡隱隱的 回去補啊"},{"start":760.34,"end":777.138,"text":"我們會跟著法處法修正他的法源希望能夠在這個職等上面也跟著突破你K出來我們兩個招委盡量來跟你們幫忙啦好不好那像這一次啊本席也參與整個律師法的共同的一個提案強化這個司法跟相關職場"},{"start":781.282,"end":807.324,"text":"這個職業場所的安全防護的一個義務你去明定禁止妨礙律師執行職務規範的刑事責任我們也期望說朝野之間大家共同來支持來保障律師職業安全不受非法的一個干擾但是本席剛所提出的秘書長你也很正面的一個回應我們也希望趕快你送到立法院大家好好來你們各個機關哪一個地方該去突破不然"},{"start":807.904,"end":823.262,"text":"不用幾年 因為這個馬上又爆發出來你這個人撈不住啦一個工作看不到願景的這個你說要限制降低他的流動率很困難的啦要加油一下 好不好好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言我跟莊昭偉我們兩個都有共同"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}