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這個其實是非常重要的一件事情"},{"start":47.947,"end":74.442,"text":"那我想這次台中地院這樣的一個發生暴力事件那雖然是這個打得耳光的是這個律師公會的一個理事長那只是這個是剛好對象讓社會引起注目那其實不管是不是打到這個律師公會的理事長或者是律師或者一般民眾這個都必須要來特別來做一個看看制度上需不需要如何來做一個精進的一個問題"},{"start":75.603,"end":94.058,"text":"那我看這次大家看到這樣的一個事件爆發以後本席的看法就有點不太一樣應該是從整個制度的一個根本來看我一直都認為說這個法警這個法警到底以現在來看的話"},{"start":95.479,"end":124.931,"text":"這一次大家的評論是在說律師批評現場法警沒有用現行犯去逮捕那後續的開刑就變成一個不公開的一個審理了那律師公會全聯會也呼籲司法院去正式建立對律師人身安全防護的一個機制是對律師的安全防護必須要這個機制要去建立對一般進入到這個法庭的人身的一個防衛機制都必須要去做一個建立啦那光去譴責我看意義不大"},{"start":125.691,"end":144.665,"text":"那基層的法警會講說我只是穿著警察的制服而已但是我的職權跟法源跟警察完全都不一樣我不曉得秘書長怎麼去看待這件事情以現在法警的定位跟職權來看的話"},{"start":147.861,"end":175.176,"text":"我三十年前也開始就在這個法院裡面這樣在行使律師的一個職務但是呢我相信法警它其實它真正的一個職務其實在支援整個審判的一個工作那支援這個審判工作呢也就是說它的角色其實跟它在服務整個審判秩序的一個維持那跟一般的警察那是完全不一樣的"},{"start":175.876,"end":179.182,"text":"那你警察是負責治安的維護啊犯罪偵查啊收集證據啊那我看這三個你認為會跟法警會有所異樣嗎我請教秘書長"},{"start":187.946,"end":205.399,"text":"謝謝委員提到這個法警的工作當然跟一般警察是完全不一樣就像陳茹這個委員所說的他重要是在法院的審判所以我的意思是你司法院跟法務部這邊的間諜其實是一樣的法警跟警察"},{"start":205.999,"end":215.641,"text":"他的職權是完全是不同的啦那你制度上來講的話你說他不是警察但實務上的話你看這次大家就要求你就必須要用警察的一個標準來看待這件事情了在要求這些法警這個我看起來也是不通你說一般法院跟檢察署會發生一些突發的狀況被告會脫逃或者是你在候審室裡面可能會產生一些衝突或者被告他也有可能自傷啊他也有可能去傷人啊"},{"start":235.026,"end":254.638,"text":"那甚至於就大家擔心的結球的問題那這一些你說全部要要求我們現在的法警去在現場做第一線的處理如果站在法警的立場來看的話那他到底有沒有足夠的法定權限可以處理這第一個要去思考的地方那第二個就是說"},{"start":256.661,"end":264.475,"text":"我看你法務部跟司法院你們其實應該好好去回答社會的是說如果沒有明確的司法授權的話"},{"start":266.325,"end":269.767,"text":"你這個法警發生這種事情的話,搞不好他還要打110,還要等警察來幫忙處理,那這個空窗期的責任到底誰來負的問題。所以這個職權的部分,法務部跟司法院這邊你們的看法到底是什麼,有什麼樣的法源依據,來要求我們這些法警。"},{"start":290.167,"end":305.539,"text":"其實就關於維持法庭秩序這個部分像執庭執行警衛解送人犯還有那個司法警察事務這是刑事訴訟法其實在解送人犯這個整個過程就涵蓋了"},{"start":306.434,"end":335.661,"text":"那個候審室的維護安全那解送人犯中秩序的維持他是有有授權的唯一其實最大沒有授權就誠如委員所說的在那個法院法庭外的空間這一塊是都沒有所以我們必須要這個部分要讓在希望能夠在法院組織法明確規定讓法警有法院依據不要再遲疑"},{"start":336.383,"end":361.894,"text":"那我相信你這樣 我看你可能到立法院來出燈板嘛其實很誠懇啦那翁委員其實他弄這樣一個專報的話我相信他也會支持你啦立法院也會去支持但是碰到一個問題喔你說立法院我們朝野我跟翁委員我們兩個來支持你們大部分大家應該比較不會有反對的一個意見這個沒有黨派之分嘛但問題有一個就是說"},{"start":365.296,"end":388.771,"text":"我全部給你的職權達到跟一般警察一樣啦或者維護整個法庭的一個秩序這個民眾也認為該去做一個確保可是你看現在缺員的問題啊你這個欠人你不要跟他說是我以前剛在當小律師的時候我看到以前那個台北地檢那個是光頭警長嘛對吧我想說他多大你知道嗎"},{"start":390.434,"end":417.059,"text":"結果他是委任還是五職等還是六職等而已六到六職等那也就是說呢法警長到七我的意思是說你法警的人力其實是不足啦是穿衣服衫好看而已啦真的是穿衣服衫好看而已啊你的待遇跟一般警察也不能比啊你的位階關節也不能比啊那你說你要留住人力那所以呢你這個喔"},{"start":418.086,"end":429.428,"text":"工作量也會增加啦你檢查機關或者是法院你這個人力調度多你必須要去大幅的增加我看你們這幾年是好像請了保全了嗎"},{"start":430.644,"end":457.061,"text":"對,跟委員報告,真的委員指到我們的痛點剛剛委員是講法源,說講法源其實同樣的,人力,法警的人力絕對不足那為什麼人力不足?我們受到總原額法控制住是對,根本我們剩不到一百個餘額可以用了其實各法院如果這樣算起來的話你法警要增加,真的是我們是抓金劍走的"},{"start":458.358,"end":486.977,"text":"總原額法的一個限制這當然是你們現在碰到一個最大的一個問題啦那其實喔我看整個從2016年整個刑事訴訟法的一個變革以後啊你說夜間不詢問制度上路以後啊你法院本來就比較長的時間你必須要去戒護這個羈押的一個被告那還有你看現在社會發生了這麼多集團性的一個犯罪以後人也人數也越來越多"},{"start":488.839,"end":504.668,"text":"那監察院又去糾正你們不能用借物為理由對被告任意施用借據否則就是違反公民跟政治權利國際公約的一個人權保障監察院講這個有他的道理可是會增加你們在整個實務上的一個困難"},{"start":505.649,"end":528.352,"text":"那你看大法官會議解釋785號他就講說你工作時間的上限加班的一個上限輪班間隔的部分這個輪班的一個公務員更換次序至少要連續11個小時的休息的一個時間從刑事訴訟法的制度的變革到整個社會集團性案件的一個暴增然後再"},{"start":529.85,"end":549.902,"text":"監察院再踢你們一腳,然後在整個大法官會議又跟你講說,有這樣的一個限制以後,讓你們更難去做人力的一個調配啦。但是,總原額法裡面,它當然是框住的。再來看看怎麼突破。但是呢,現狀之下呢,其實裡面還是可以有一些作為啦。"},{"start":550.382,"end":569.692,"text":"像譬如說訓練啊一般的專業訓練的方式你要怎麼去做一個提升讓法警雖然他本個工作性質跟警察不同不能畫上等號可是總是讓他對於整個勤務的流程突發的狀況該怎麼處理你們這些訓練的部分譬如說特定的訓練啊平常的訓練啊你們會說有"},{"start":576.736,"end":595.056,"text":"有的你也沒有一個規定出來,沒有一個制度出來,像譬如說我訓練的目的到底要幹什麼,時間要多長,去做一個規劃的話,把他們整個訓練把它給提升了,我相信對你們還是有幫助的,尤其是人不夠,心碎的部分。"},{"start":597.378,"end":624.446,"text":"像這一些 如果沒有去做一個妥善的一個因應的話人要因緣 你要救母 我不拿秘書 阿媳 法務部你們的看法是怎麼樣是辛苦 沒錯當然訓練 我們是剛剛已經都講 一定是加強再加強那薪水部分能夠提高 當然希望大院 還有我們行政院能夠支持這個是最好的這個 你看一般來看的話 你如果訓練不足的話"},{"start":626.883,"end":632.359,"text":"你這個實在是這種狀況你要避免它發生也很困難可是本席的看法是這樣"},{"start":633.618,"end":661.978,"text":"我跟汪委員對不管是各行政部門裡面人手的部分其實我們大部分都是在支持你們因為你常常你讓你一個制度喔讓一個在這邊從事這個工作的人對他的職業我看不到前景啊我看不到前景那你就變成你要讓他如何去看到那個前景然後降低那個流動率喔這個是行政部門在缺人手你首先要去解決的啦你這個如果沒有去解決的話說其他的喔"},{"start":663.539,"end":691.338,"text":"不好了 是那個官等那麼低啦薪水就是這樣子啦工作時間還是那麼還是那麼長啦啊 大家要做的事情要是一樣這麼多啦你說 這樣要怎麼維護整個法庭的一個安全品質原木求魚你做一個總結看看 我要聽聽你的看法第一個 當然訓練措施我們剛剛一直提 一直提 一直提我們絕對要做到那再來委員提到的 怎麼"},{"start":692.739,"end":716.276,"text":"讓法警願意投入這個工作只等薪水真的是我們是要求各機關來共同達成一個士氣的維護薪水一定是最重要的那訓練部分是司法院該做的我們絕對務實讓各法院一定要照一個環節一個環節一個環節的仔細去落實"},{"start":719.518,"end":738.518,"text":"這樣你安提出來嗎?你不能在這邊答覆啊剛剛跟那個報告說我們那個給各法院的強化措施是我們下禮拜就頒布給各法院那剛剛另外一個委員質疑的我們的各項的小節的精進方法我們一個月內那個是訓練那很好"},{"start":741.081,"end":757.518,"text":"我相信 翁委員跟我所關注的就是說你人 素質要體性 人要有膏你那個官等 穿著衣服看起來像警察他只是法定職權 又不是警察你怎麼樣留住這些人 讓他們看到他們整個職業的一個前景這你要有補啊 不然在這裡隱隱的 回去補啊"},{"start":760.34,"end":777.138,"text":"我們會跟著法處法修正他的法源希望能夠在這個職等上面也跟著突破你K出來我們兩個招委盡量來跟你們幫忙啦好不好那像這一次啊本席也參與整個律師法的共同的一個提案強化這個司法跟相關職場"},{"start":781.282,"end":807.324,"text":"這個職業場所的安全防護的一個義務你去明定禁止妨礙律師執行職務規範的刑事責任我們也期望說朝野之間大家共同來支持來保障律師職業安全不受非法的一個干擾但是本席剛所提出的秘書長你也很正面的一個回應我們也希望趕快你送到立法院大家好好來你們各個機關哪一個地方該去突破不然"},{"start":807.904,"end":823.262,"text":"不用幾年 因為這個馬上又爆發出來你這個人撈不住啦一個工作看不到願景的這個你說要限制降低他的流動率很困難的啦要加油一下 好不好好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言我跟莊昭偉我們兩個都有共同"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:34:29.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:34:40.032000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請司法院高秘書長，還有司法行政廳吳廳長、法務部檢察司司長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-30T10:34:40.032000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-30T10:34:48.732000+08:00","text":"請高秘書長、吳廳長、司長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:34:48.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:35:06.327000+08:00","text":"秘書長，今天我看翁曉玲召委排這樣的專題報告，代表立法院對於法庭實務所發生的事情表達了即時的關心，整個制度要怎麼樣建置其實是非常重要的事情。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:35:07.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:35:33.442000+08:00","text":"這次臺中地院發生暴力事件，雖然被打耳光的是律師公會理事長，剛好只是對象讓社會引起注目，其實不管是不是打到律師公會理事長、律師或者一般民眾，都必須要特別來看看制度上有沒有需要及如何做精進的問題。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:35:36.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:35:46.953000+08:00","text":"這一次大家看到這樣的事件爆發以後，本席的看法有一點不太一樣，應該要從整個制度的根本來看。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:35:52.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:36:10.666000+08:00","text":"以現在的法警來看，這一次大家的評論是說律師批評現場法警沒有用現行犯去逮捕，後續開庭就變成不公開審理；律師公會全聯會也呼籲司法院正視，並建立對律師人身安全防護的機制。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:36:11.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:36:23.911000+08:00","text":"對律師安全防護的機制必須要建立，對一般進入法庭的人身防衛機制也都必須要建立，光去譴責我看意義不大。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:36:24.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:36:37.360000+08:00","text":"基層法警也會說他只是穿著警察制服而已，但是職權、法源與警察完全都不一樣。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:36:37.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:37:18.042000+08:00","text":"我不曉得秘書長怎麼看待這件事情，以現在法警的定位與職權來看，30年前我就在法院裡面行使律師職務，但是我相信法警真正的職務是在支援整個審判的工作，也就是說，他的角色在服務整個審判秩序的維持其實與一般警察完全不一樣，警察是負責治安維護、犯罪偵查及蒐集證據，這三個你認為跟法警會一樣嗎？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:37:18.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:37:18.182000+08:00","text":"請教秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:37:26.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:37:28.307000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員提到這個。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:37:28.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:37:36.573000+08:00","text":"法警的工作當然跟一般警察完全不一樣，就誠如委員所說的，重要的是在法院的審判……","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:37:38.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:37:42.758000+08:00","text":"是，所以我的意思是說司法院及法務部這邊的見解其實是一樣的。是。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:37:43.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:37:52.021000+08:00","text":"法警與警察的職權是完全不同的，制度上來講，你說他不是警察，但實務上，你看這次大家就要求必須要用警察的標準看待這件事情、來要求這些法警，這個我看起來也是不通的。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:37:52.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:38:31.077000+08:00","text":"你說一般法院及檢察署會發生一些突發狀況，例如被告會脫逃或者是在候審室可能會有產生一些衝突，或者被告有可能自傷、有可能傷人，甚至於大家擔心的劫囚問題等，這些你說全部要要求現在的法警在現場做第一線的處理，如果站在法警的立場來看的話，他到底有沒有足夠的法定權限可以處理？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:38:31.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:38:32.758000+08:00","text":"這是第一個要去思考的地方。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:38:33.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:38:46.746000+08:00","text":"第二個，我看法務部及司法院其實應該好好回答社會的是，如果沒有明確的司法授權的話，發生這種事情，法警搞不好還要打110等警察來幫忙處理，這個空窗期的責任到底誰來負？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:38:46.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:38:47.827000+08:00","text":"所以職權的部分，法務部及司法院你們的看法到底是什麼？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:38:47.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:38:48.747000+08:00","text":"有什麼法源依據來要求這些法警？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:39:10.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:39:20.816000+08:00","text":"關於維持法庭秩序這個部分，像值庭、執行、警衛、解送人犯等，還有司法警察事務，這是刑事訴訟法。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:39:21.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:39:54.641000+08:00","text":"其實在解送人犯整個過程就涵蓋候審室的維護安全，而解送人犯中，秩序的維持是有授權的，唯一且最大沒有授權就誠如委員所說的，在法庭外的空間這一塊都沒有，所以這個部分我們希望能夠在法院組織法明確規定，讓法警有法源依據，不要再遲疑。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:39:55.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:00.145000+08:00","text":"我相信秘書長這樣的答復……我看你可能到立法院初登板嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:00.145000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:02.226000+08:00","text":"你是第一次嘛！是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:02.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:02.886000+08:00","text":"其實很誠懇啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:03.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:08.088000+08:00","text":"翁委員安排這樣一個專報，我相信他也會支持你。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:08.088000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:09.088000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:08.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:09.609000+08:00","text":"立法院也會支持。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:11.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:20.194000+08:00","text":"你說立法院朝野，我跟翁委員我們兩個來支持你們，大家應該比較不會有反對的意見，這個沒有黨派之分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:20.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:35.383000+08:00","text":"但是有一個問題就是，全部給法警的職權達到與一般警察一樣，或者對於維護整個法庭的秩序，民眾也認為該做確保，可是你看現在缺員的問題。是。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:35.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:37.524000+08:00","text":"你們現在缺人……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:37.524000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:38.524000+08:00","text":"對、對、對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:38.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:39.765000+08:00","text":"沒有，你不能只說「是」。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:40.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:47.751000+08:00","text":"我以前剛在當小律師的時候，我看到以前在臺北地檢的光頭警長，我想說他職等是多大，你知不知道？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:49.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:57.275000+08:00","text":"結果他是委任好像是五職等還是六職等而已，也就是說……","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:57.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:40:57.816000+08:00","text":"法警長到七。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:40:58.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:41:29.644000+08:00","text":"我的意思是說法警人力其實不足，是穿那套制服好看而已，真的是穿那套制服好看而已，他的待遇跟一般警察也不能比，位階、官階也不能比，你說要留住人力，工作量也會增加，檢察機關或者是法院人力調度都必須要大幅增加，我看你們這幾年好像請了保全了嘛？對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:41:29.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:41:40.271000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，委員真的指到我們的痛點，剛才委員是講法源，所以我講法源，其實同樣地，法警的人力絕對不足，為什麼人力不足？","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:41:40.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:41:43.473000+08:00","text":"我們受到總員額法控制住。是。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:41:44.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:41:54.240000+08:00","text":"根本我們剩不到一百個餘額可以用，其實各法院如果這樣算起來的話，法警要增加，我們真的是捉襟見肘。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:41:57.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:42:43.668000+08:00","text":"總員額法的限制當然是你們現在碰到的一個最大問題，其實我看從2016年整個刑事訴訟法的變革以後，夜間不訊問制度上路以後，法院本來就需要比較長的時間去戒護羈押的被告，還有你看現在社會發生了這麼多集團性的犯罪以後，人數也越來越多，監察院又去糾正你們不能用戒護為理由對被告任意施用戒具，否則就是違反公民跟政治權利國際公約的人權保障，監察院講這個有它的道理，可是會增加你們在整個實務上的困難。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:42:44.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:43:00.205000+08:00","text":"你看大法官會議解釋第785號就講說工作時間的上限、加班的上限、輪班間隔的部分，輪班的公務員更換次序，至少要有連續11個小時的休息時間。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:43:00.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:43:23.979000+08:00","text":"從刑事訴訟法制度的變革，到整個社會集團性案件的暴增，監察院再踢你們一腳，然後在整個大法官會議又跟你講說有這樣的限制以後，讓你們更難去做人力的調配，總員額法裡面當然是框住的，再來看看怎麼突破。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:43:24.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:44:27.501000+08:00","text":"但是現狀之下，其實你們還是可以有一些作為，比如說訓練，一般專業訓練的方式要怎麼去把他做提升，雖然法警的工作性質跟警察不同，不能畫上等號，可是總是讓他對於整個勤務的流程、突發的狀況該怎麼處理，你們在訓練的部分，比如說特定的訓練、平常的訓練你們會說有，可是你們也沒有一個規定出來、沒有一個制度出來，比如訓練的目的到底要幹什麼、時間要多長，去做一個規劃的話，把他們的整個訓練給提升了，我相信對你們還是有幫助的，尤其是人不夠、薪水的部分……像這一些如果沒有去做一個妥善因應的話，你永遠招募不到人，我不知道秘書長還是法務部你們的看法是怎麼樣？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:44:27.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:44:38.804000+08:00","text":"是辛苦沒錯，當然訓練的部分，剛剛已經都講了，一定是加強再加強；薪水部分能夠提高，當然希望大院、還有行政院能夠支持，這個是最好的。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:44:41.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:45:14.053000+08:00","text":"一般來看，如果訓練不足的話，這種狀況你要避免它發生也很困難，可是本席的看法是這樣，我跟翁委員對不管是各行政部門裡面人手的部分，其實我們大部分都是在支持你們，因為你的制度讓在這邊從事這個工作的人對他的職業看不到前景，你要如何讓他去看到那個前景，降低流動率？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:45:14.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:45:19.077000+08:00","text":"這個是行政部門在缺人手時首先要去解決的啦！是。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:45:19.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:45:23.260000+08:00","text":"這個如果沒有去解決的話，講其他的都沒有用啦！是。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:45:25.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:45:38.850000+08:00","text":"官等那麼低，薪水就是這樣子，工作時間還是那麼長，大家要做的事情、工作還是一樣那麼多，這樣要怎麼去維護整個法庭的安全品質？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:45:39.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:45:40.031000+08:00","text":"無異於緣木求魚。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:45:40.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:45:42.073000+08:00","text":"你做一個總結看看，我要聽聽你的看法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:45:42.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:45:47.416000+08:00","text":"第一個是訓練措施，我們剛剛一直提、一直提、一直提，我們絕對要做到。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:45:48.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:46:05.189000+08:00","text":"再來，委員提到怎麼讓法警願意投入這個工作，職等、薪水我們真的是要求各機關來共同達成，一個士氣的維護，薪水一定是最重要的。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:46:07.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:46:15.276000+08:00","text":"訓練部分是司法院該做的，我們絕對務實，讓各法院一定要照一個環節、一個環節、一個環節仔細去落實。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:46:18.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:46:19.639000+08:00","text":"這樣你的方案拿得出來嗎？","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:46:19.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:46:20.420000+08:00","text":"你不能在這邊答復……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:46:21.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:46:29.270000+08:00","text":"剛剛有報告，我們給各法院的強化措施在下個禮拜就頒布給各法院。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:46:31.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:46:36.738000+08:00","text":"剛剛有另外一個委員質疑我們各項小節的精進方法，我們一個月內會……","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:46:36.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:46:37.318000+08:00","text":"那個是訓練。對。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:46:37.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:46:55.817000+08:00","text":"那很好，我相信翁委員跟我所關注的是，人的素質要提升，人數也要夠，加上官等，他們穿著制服看起來像警察，但是他們的法定職權又不是警察，要怎麼樣留住這些人，讓他們看到職業的前景？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:46:55.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:46:56.458000+08:00","text":"這些你要有方法，而不是只在這邊回答而已，回去就沒有了。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:46:59.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:47:06.568000+08:00","text":"會，我們會跟著法組法修正它的法源，希望能夠在職等上面也跟著突破。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:47:06.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:47:10.772000+08:00","text":"你拿出來，我們兩個召委儘量來給你們幫忙，好不好？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:47:10.772000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-30T10:47:11.772000+08:00","text":"是，非常地感謝，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:47:11.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:47:33.953000+08:00","text":"像這一次本席也參與整個律師法的共同提案，強化司法跟相關職業場所安全防護的義務，並明定禁止妨礙律師執行職務規範的刑事責任，我們也期望朝野之間大家共同支持來保障律師職業安全，不受非法的干擾。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:47:34.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:47:51.169000+08:00","text":"對於本席剛剛所提出的，秘書長你也有很正面的回應，我們希望你趕快送到立法院，大家好好來……你們各個機關哪一個地方該去突破，不然不用幾年，這個馬上又爆發出來，這樣子人留不住啦！","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-03-30T10:47:52.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:48:00.720000+08:00","text":"一個工作看不到願景的話，你說你要降低他的流動率很困難，要加油一下，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:48:00.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:48:01.301000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-30T10:48:01.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-30T10:48:01.661000+08:00","text":"謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-30T10:48:02.161000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-30T10:48:18.161000+08:00","text":"我跟莊召委兩個人都有共識，會支持司法院提出的法警人力員額的增加及職等的提高，希望司法院回去能夠儘速提出相關的修正法案。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-03-30T10:48:18.461000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-30T10:48:22.461000+08:00","text":"是，我們這會期一定提出，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-30T10:48:22.761000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-30T10:48:26.475286+08:00","text":"接下來我們請許宇甄委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}