{"error":false,"id":["168021"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168021,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168021","日期":"2026-03-30","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-03-30T10:48:28+08:00","結束時間":"2026-03-30T10:59:13+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:45","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d0265d86f2f18c67f32b41c34546112e117671a01da40a13b7080941cab810cce391b23e5ee14c115ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"10:48:28 - 10:59:13","會議時間":"2026-03-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、內政部警政署就「法院安全秩序維護與法警職權行使」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.86096875,"end":14.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.30721875,"end":16.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.20971875,"end":18.762218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.719093750000003,"end":69.28596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.48846875000001,"end":104.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.85846875,"end":109.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.83659375,"end":137.32596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.17409375,"end":151.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.21096875,"end":144.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.93221875,"end":146.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.83846875,"end":167.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.29409375,"end":153.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.51534375,"end":182.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.92034375,"end":167.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.98784375000002,"end":168.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.15659375,"end":168.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.27471875,"end":168.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.03346875,"end":173.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.96034375000002,"end":190.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.78284375,"end":184.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.68471875,"end":191.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.24159375000002,"end":192.55784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.50721875000002,"end":196.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.70534375000003,"end":194.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.79346875000002,"end":196.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.92846875,"end":199.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.29096875000002,"end":211.89659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.18409375000002,"end":208.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.35659375,"end":212.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.63909375,"end":231.74159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.77409375000002,"end":212.82471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.34721875000002,"end":217.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.33409375000002,"end":220.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.78971875000002,"end":220.80659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.02846875,"end":235.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.60596875000002,"end":237.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.58034375000003,"end":247.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.37721875000003,"end":241.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.32971875,"end":253.99971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.10096875000002,"end":259.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.73721875,"end":273.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.18659375000004,"end":276.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.76846875,"end":323.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.78909375,"end":279.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.60284375000003,"end":283.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.42534375,"end":284.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.96534375000005,"end":285.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.86284375,"end":293.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.02659375,"end":298.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.61221875,"end":303.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.37284375,"end":325.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.14909375,"end":324.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.44846875,"end":329.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.35971875,"end":327.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.45221875000004,"end":330.56159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.80221875,"end":335.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.12221875,"end":334.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.86034375,"end":346.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.01909375,"end":347.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.34784375000004,"end":351.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.48659375,"end":376.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.60471875,"end":379.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.95471875000004,"end":382.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.20784375000005,"end":425.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.54034375000003,"end":385.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.97909375,"end":385.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.67096875000004,"end":386.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.87346875000003,"end":387.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.24471875,"end":387.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.20659375,"end":388.22346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.22346875000005,"end":388.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.66221875,"end":388.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.13034375,"end":390.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.18284375,"end":405.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.98971875,"end":427.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.37346875000003,"end":431.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.90909375,"end":434.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.06034375,"end":434.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.49471875,"end":479.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.27659375,"end":499.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":499.39596875,"end":509.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.80784375,"end":524.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.60346875,"end":522.0422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.2865937500001,"end":528.8090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.35346875,"end":530.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.8215937500001,"end":544.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.3528437500001,"end":532.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.51971875,"end":552.4172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.9909687500001,"end":570.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.7865937500001,"end":565.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.8615937500001,"end":571.8403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.8403437500001,"end":612.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.89096875,"end":572.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.97846875,"end":578.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":612.3572187500001,"end":621.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.53284375,"end":635.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.75034375,"end":641.0109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.5009687500001,"end":637.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.58096875,"end":638.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.37346875,"end":643.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":643.39034375,"end":645.60096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.405,"end":16.38,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請司法院高金正秘書長以及我們的檢察司張司長好 請秘書長跟張司長"},{"start":24.901,"end":53.162,"text":"MU長還有市長好我想今天我們排這個專報專題報告最主要就是針對在台中地議院所發生的這個律師被這個女子這個國長的這個事件那當然這個部分我在剛剛在你們的報告裡面你們有提到說其實你們有做了一些教育訓練包括你在7月起就有事前預警高風險通報還有警力盤點跟教育訓練"},{"start":54.443,"end":67.51,"text":"但是同時間你們也自己檢討說事實上是因為自己法源不足執法遲疑還有因為警力不足的關係所以還有法官的訴訟只會過於保守"},{"start":69.631,"end":82.241,"text":"但是呢同樣的這個法務部對於高風險案件的分流退庭跟安全陪同還有這個機關的區內現行暴力的處置其實寫得很詳細就是刑事訴訟法第88條的現行犯的規定法警的"},{"start":85.703,"end":104.652,"text":"依法逮捕那所以我想請教一下秘書長針對這個刑事訴訟法第88條是問何人都可以進行逮捕所以說當時為什麼我們在這個司法院的在台中地院的這個法警卻沒有用這樣的方式而是用隔離的方式呢"},{"start":104.912,"end":128.462,"text":"這個我剛剛有一次報告,其實真的是我們這位法警真的是遲疑了他自己對於這個,其實我必須跟委員報告有時候法警他們很害怕說,我一個強制的行為是不是造成更大的騷擾只要這個念頭在他腦子裡面,他就沒有勇敢的去,不能說勇敢"},{"start":129.102,"end":150.976,"text":"沒有很盡職的去達成現刑犯是任何人可以進行逮捕的這個法治觀念不過這個已經不是言語囉這直接有行動了這個應該對應該是現刑犯的這個標準應該就已經是已經落實那為什麼對這法警做這樣的表示說可能平常的教育訓練"},{"start":154.018,"end":167.365,"text":"對,我必須承認,可能我們對於他,應該什麼時候,不能講什麼時候,你應該把這種現行犯,應該要進行逮捕的這種,要把它變成一個DNA,因為你這樣才有辦法維持"},{"start":167.705,"end":192.337,"text":"那請問一下你剛剛有提到說是因為法警遲疑他認為可能造成更大的騷擾那請問一下那當法警做這樣遲疑的時候他有沒有可以譬如說請示上級機關或是請示法官或是相關的人員可以請示有有有其實可以的這一件事件我必須講真的是整個都法警都遲疑其實他們後面還有四個法警真的還有四個法警"},{"start":192.557,"end":211.434,"text":"所以總共有五個罰警結果都沒有人認為應該要當庭逮捕所以我們要深自檢討所以表示說我覺得這個相關的啦就針對這個部分的教育訓練因為其實我們剛剛我想秘書長都一直有提到現在的罰警是人力不足可是依當天的這個案件好像也不是人力不足的問題"},{"start":212.555,"end":230.807,"text":"只要這樣講一個女子在現場然後有五個法警在現場所以絕對不會是人力不足的問題所以這個可能我覺得是我們的教育訓練出了很大的問題那尤其是剛剛講到說這個要積極修正這個法院組織法因為覺得法源不是那麼的明確"},{"start":232.108,"end":246.856,"text":"那請問一下到底是哪裡你覺得法源不夠明確呢其實像關於現行犯這根本不用法處法的法源重點就是說法警你在維護法院秩序的時候我可能要檢查"},{"start":248.636,"end":272.742,"text":"像我們其實我們現在進門的檢查那個法源是稍微有點灰色地帶還有在法庭裡面我要禁止行為如果那個審判長他是忙著他的開庭而沒有注意到旁邊沒有指示法警是不能動的可是有些事情光在法庭裡面其實可以事先制止"},{"start":273.582,"end":293.591,"text":"罰警沒辦法那再罰這個當然秘書長我想你們有相關的SOP但是以這一次的案件來說顯然是都沒有落實所以這也就是招委為什麼今天會排這個專報所以這個部分的話我想秘書長可能要回去要好好的來去研究相關的我們的教育訓練的如何落實"},{"start":295.012,"end":299.593,"text":"未來真正在面臨這樣的狀況的時候我們要怎麼樣去做因為其實有法源但是我覺得是在怎麼判斷方面出了問題所以邀請秘書長針對這個部分因為這邊台中地院就是所謂的首要任務迅速隔離"},{"start":311.477,"end":333.064,"text":"就是事實上他既然都隔離了那為什麼不能做現情況的逮捕那還是說司法院其實是法警是不能這樣子有要求法警不能做這樣的作為嗎絕對沒有絕對沒有絕對沒有嘛不過因為這次這個行為事實上是沒有落實事實上是蠻離譜的啦所以說大家會有這樣的一個狀況那"},{"start":336.286,"end":347.121,"text":"剛剛您也提到就是說人力不足的問題那請問司法院這邊有沒有針對人力不足的問題有提出什麼樣子的一個具體方案如何解決當然除了"},{"start":348.976,"end":376.553,"text":"這個願意讓我們增援是最好在沒有增援之前我們會把法警的職務有強度比較高的一定是在法警身上強度比較弱的單純的維持一條線的秩序我們就會放在保全來協助就分散一下法警的工作量可是我必須報告還是不夠因為我們民庭"},{"start":378.666,"end":398.053,"text":"就是沒有法庭所以說具體的我想這個人力要怎麼改善的方案也雙元村你們有個具體的報告然後送到立法院送到我們司法法治委員會讓我們能夠了解那剛剛昭偉也特別提到的就是針對這部分我們也會非常的支持只要是有必要但重點是"},{"start":399.574,"end":425.149,"text":"法警如何訓練讓他們真正能夠執行他們的勤務我覺得那個才是重點人力就像當天有五個警力在那五個法警在那邊可是卻沒有辦法執行這樣的行為所以說未來請問一下如果再有這樣的狀況發生的話那他們是可以這個還是一樣其實要迅速隔離還是可以依法控制現場代理人員然後移交警方呢"},{"start":426.055,"end":448.617,"text":"如果是現行犯本來就是可以當場代表送行方本來就可以了我覺得這個部分可能就是麻煩要具體的落實那當然我這邊還想請教張司長一些問題就是針對我們這個經貿辦的顏富新副總談判代表的這個英言早逝那他因為有一個請辭他的請辭書裡面有很清楚的寫到"},{"start":449.338,"end":477.584,"text":"他對CPTPP推動消極敷衍缺乏具體的計畫跟時程深感憂慮他多次的提出建言卻沒有被採納甚至提出遭到嚴厲的駁斥那針對這個部分其實現在大家一些媒體都指出應該是有這個相關的霸凌的事情產生那請問這個部分就是檢察官可不可以因為就是我們知道有相關的情勢可以主動這個展開調查"},{"start":479.126,"end":479.147,"text":"那"},{"start":480.479,"end":509.338,"text":"跟委員報告那檢察官是只有犯罪嫌疑才會來做主動的偵查那一般的這個霸凌的情形到底是什麼樣程度那通常在機關內會先做一個霸凌是否有霸凌事件的一個調查之後那如果其中有涉及到犯罪嫌疑的話機關就會向檢察機關因為其實我看你們之前有很多的案件其實都是看媒體有介入之後你們就主動介入偵辦嗎因為這是符合這個只有其他情勢有犯罪嫌疑者嗎"},{"start":509.838,"end":529.708,"text":"所以就是說還是要看那個他媒體不管是媒體或者是說相關的人員他所揭露的一些霸凌的行為是不是已經達到有犯罪嫌疑的一個程度那才會有檢查機關來做一個偵辦那所以如果有這樣犯罪嫌疑程度你們就會積極的這個介入偵辦如果有犯罪嫌疑的話"},{"start":530.228,"end":552.192,"text":"那目前的話因為現在這個案子還在調查當中嘛所以說我們也可以看到他也提到就是說他多次的建言遭到這個嚴厲的駁斥所以說如果主管沒有知道問題存在卻長期不處理是不是已經這個涉及公務員這個廢持職務代乎職守的犯罪嫌疑呢那這個部分檢察官是不是要查"},{"start":553.455,"end":579.358,"text":"公務員廢食植物的罪責其實是相當重的那跟霸凌之間的一個關係這個可能還是要看具體的個案來做一個判斷那這個案子就是說這個部分是不是有到達廢食植物的情形可能也是要先因為以這個案子的話就是說我們可以看到就是說這個我們顏慧欣當然現在我們有很多的資訊出來啦就是"},{"start":579.798,"end":601.129,"text":"他其實也針對這個部分他其實在身心各方面其實都已經受到很大的一個煎熬所以他才會提出辭呈那裡面也都特別講出可是我們可以看到他提出辭呈的前一個月喔那還是呢這個就是這個我們的經貿辦呢還是要讓他獨立去面對所有立委的質詢所以這個針對這個"},{"start":603.55,"end":621.446,"text":"大齡的疑雲那是不是有可能導致他最後離世是因為這樣的原因那所以這個部分我們還是希望說這個我們的這個檢查機關還是要針對這個部分能夠主動的調查不要等到說到最後就是官官相護到最後就不了了之"},{"start":622.831,"end":640.781,"text":"跟委員報告因為本案依照這個媒體所揭露的大概已經在進行內部的行政調查那如果相關的調查結果出來假設裡面有犯罪嫌疑的話檢察官也會來助理我們希望這樣的事情不要再發生在我們的所有的官員身上謝謝好 謝謝許委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}