{"error":false,"id":["168073"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168073,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168073","日期":"2026-04-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-01T09:26:30+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-01T09:41:32+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:02","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c3449c7d0e559d1047570c8d4d2e9dc78d712538f072f31b2741abac731c48f905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:26:30 - 09:41:32","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":7.5572187500000005,"end":9.61596875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":9.71721875,"end":11.742218750000003,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":19.234718750000003,"end":19.85909375,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":19.85909375,"end":70.18034375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":70.87221875,"end":83.19096875000001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":83.79846875000001,"end":100.18409375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":100.89284375000001,"end":113.22846875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":114.22409375000001,"end":116.04659375000001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":116.51909375000001,"end":121.07534375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":121.68284375,"end":143.67096875000001,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":135.19971875000002,"end":135.70596875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":143.51909375,"end":150.38721875000002,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":150.70784375000002,"end":209.11221875,"speaker_score":0.738},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":208.31909375,"end":213.39846875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":212.80784375000002,"end":212.87534375,"speaker_score":0.738},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":213.29721875,"end":215.74409375000002,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":216.38534375,"end":234.62721875000003,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":218.49471875,"end":218.81534375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":234.62721875000003,"end":261.72846875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":262.31909375000004,"end":278.01284375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":278.97471875,"end":280.76346875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":281.35409375,"end":306.73409375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":307.66221875,"end":316.48784375,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":316.60596875000005,"end":322.25909375000003,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":322.52909375,"end":323.01846875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":323.00159375000004,"end":324.36846875000003,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":324.87471875,"end":328.73909375,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":329.21159375,"end":356.68409375000005,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":355.23284375000003,"end":356.66721875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":356.68409375000005,"end":357.00471875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":357.00471875,"end":359.92409375,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":357.02159375,"end":357.40971875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":360.43034375,"end":361.51034375,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":363.14721875000004,"end":369.82971875000004,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":371.56784375,"end":375.31409375000004,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":376.22534375000004,"end":383.92034375000003,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":382.92471875,"end":386.67096875000004,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":386.83971875000003,"end":389.52284375000005,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":389.82659375000003,"end":390.23159375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":390.90659375,"end":392.23971875,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":391.71659375,"end":394.28159375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":394.38284375,"end":396.84659375,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":398.14596875,"end":418.66596875000005,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":419.81346875,"end":472.27784375000005,"speaker_score":0.738},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.28221875,"end":472.98659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":472.98659375000005,"end":474.48846875000004,"speaker_score":0.738},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.67846875000004,"end":475.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":475.85534375000003,"end":509.72346875000005,"speaker_score":0.738},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":510.21284375000005,"end":510.46596875000006,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":511.30971875000006,"end":539.11971875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":539.8115937499999,"end":554.05409375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":554.2565937500001,"end":564.5503437500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":565.03971875,"end":577.6115937500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":568.85346875,"end":570.62534375,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":577.24034375,"end":615.12471875,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":594.95909375,"end":595.24596875,"speaker_score":0.738},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":596.96721875,"end":597.1697187500001,"speaker_score":0.738},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":612.8803437500001,"end":613.1672187500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":614.66909375,"end":636.3703437500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":636.9609687500001,"end":666.52596875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":667.57221875,"end":721.6228437500001,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":693.6609687499999,"end":694.0828437499999,"speaker_score":0.738},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":716.7122187500001,"end":717.4040937500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":717.75846875,"end":720.71159375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":721.53846875,"end":721.5890937500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":721.6228437500001,"end":721.6397187500002,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":721.6397187500002,"end":721.65659375,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":721.65659375,"end":752.87534375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":753.2297187500001,"end":764.7890937500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":766.51034375,"end":766.5947187500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":766.5947187500001,"end":766.81409375,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":767.10096875,"end":767.1684687500001,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":767.1684687500001,"end":767.21909375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":767.21909375,"end":767.3034687500001,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":767.7422187500001,"end":797.8303437500001,"speaker_score":0.738},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":798.43784375,"end":801.42471875,"speaker_score":0.738},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":801.52596875,"end":803.6184687500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":803.9897187500001,"end":807.75284375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":807.92159375,"end":820.0378437500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":820.0378437500001,"end":824.93159375,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":825.3703437500001,"end":825.9440937500001,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":826.3659687500001,"end":836.3897187500002,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":836.01846875,"end":862.46159375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":863.01846875,"end":871.33784375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":870.3928437500001,"end":891.01409375,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":885.22596875,"end":885.5634687500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":890.9465937500001,"end":896.8528437500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":896.05971875,"end":899.0803437500001,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":899.29971875,"end":899.6709687500002,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"林委員月琴","start":899.6709687500002,"end":900.16034375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":900.3797187500002,"end":901.66221875,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":903.06284375,"end":903.7040937500001,"speaker_score":0.934}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.098,"end":9.16,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩勞動部部長我請洪森漢部長"},{"start":19.261,"end":47.052,"text":"林委員好部長早我想今天有很多議題要問可是我今天事實上是帶著我們的環團的託付來問一些問題國家已經宣示我們2050年的那個近年轉型賴總統也成立了氣候變遷對策委員會而且訂出203020322035的那個減碳目標在這樣政策方向下勞動部主管的勞金局"},{"start":47.782,"end":69.894,"text":"掌管了大概8兆元的基金我完全同意基金操作当然要重视财务报酬可是现在我们的绿色金融已经是国际趋势金管会推动我国接轨IFRS永续揭露的准则要求上市柜公司揭露永续风险完成我们的"},{"start":71.255,"end":91.674,"text":"溫室的氣體的盤查提出氣候轉型的計畫也就是說民間企業都被要求要做政府基金當然沒有理由事實上是落後的所以我要請教部長一個很簡單的問題今年全國環境NGO的大會環團針對勞金局提出幾項要求包括要求提升"},{"start":92.214,"end":120.8,"text":"基金的透明度那個揭露投資組合的那個減碳路徑明確的化石燃料的測資的時間表請問部長為什麼勞金局會要求我們的環團對於環團要求的這個在會議上的建議來解除劣管是因為勞金局已經達成環團要求的人嗎那是不是部長可不可以解釋一下你要建議解除劣管的那個理由是什麼"},{"start":121.941,"end":150.118,"text":"跟文說明其實關於這個我們基金的相關的投資運用那要如何來符合國際上面其實不管是這個人權或者是環境氣候的要求其實我想我自己也跟老金局做了好幾次的討論那我想請這部分請局長來跟說明所以局長要講清楚為什麼他們要求的就是你要叫人家解除列觀你已經做到了嗎"},{"start":151.122,"end":172.122,"text":"報告委員事實上我們勞金局在永續投資的部分尤其氣候變遷風險的部分我們一直都是持續向前也積極在推動的那我們很多的措施都同步在推動那至於環境基金NGO大會所謂的項目包括他可能希望我們是不是能夠承諾"},{"start":173.723,"end":195.539,"text":"對特定的高碳排產企業去撤資等等的我想藉這個機會跟委員報告就國際整個趨勢來看包括國際大型的退休基金都不主張撤資所以我們其實也考慮到對勞工的影響尤其我們勞動基金是政府大型的退休基金"},{"start":196.46,"end":213.369,"text":"不適合直接對外宣布我們對哪個公司哪個產業去撤資那我想至於是不是解除劣管因為其實不影響我們對於整個永續投資的進度那劣管會有什麼困難嗎因為他不是只有講說撤資的時間表啦因為這個"},{"start":216.511,"end":233.509,"text":"全國環境NGO大會我也很熟那當然行政部門其實常常因為這個他會有很多項的列管那其實這個列管其實也是需要跟NGO討論所以如果NGO覺得這個議題還有再討論下去的需要的話其實我想大家也可以繼續再深入討論"},{"start":234.73,"end":260.135,"text":"那就希望部長要講得更精準一點就是勞金局不是沒有做可是做得還不夠因為今天問題不是形式上有沒有能夠要寫進報告書裡邊而是這是人民的退休基金有沒有持續鋪在一個高碳排投資風險當中這才是關鍵勞金局在永續報告書裡邊確實宣示要朝我們的投資組合進營"},{"start":262.375,"end":276.366,"text":"排放的一個來做前進可是問題是只有宣示沒有具體的路徑只有方向沒有短中長期的目標反過來看勞金局從WBA的那個世界基準的聯盟的國際永續金"},{"start":279.682,"end":306.472,"text":"這個評估來看的話在全球400個受評機構當中我們是排名大324名幾乎是後段班而且有好幾個項目是零這不是環團自己講的而且這事實上是國際評比直接點出來的落差所以想問部長說面對民間企業被要求揭露被要求轉型勞金局卻明顯落後你怎麼看這個落後而且每次團體拿出這個評分表資料出來的時候我也想知道部長回應到底是什麼"},{"start":308.014,"end":323.962,"text":"跟我說明我們可以來看一下這個評鑑的狀況可是我想補充其實我認為這件事情這個議題最根本的字最關鍵的字叫做風險其實叫做風險那當然對於氣候的風險要去怎麼認定"},{"start":329.804,"end":353.944,"text":"國際上面也會有很多對氣候風險不斷去認定的框架不斷的演進的事情不斷演進的趨勢所以我也請蘇局長那針對國際上面對氣候風險怎麼樣去認定怎麼樣去認知包括人權風險怎麼樣去認定認知我們應該要跟上國際的趨勢我想其實關鍵是這件事情所以勞軍局其實他每天最重要的工作就是去評估判斷這個風險"},{"start":355.305,"end":369.199,"text":"只是哪些風險只是哪些風險要納進來可是我覺得因為在這個這個評鑑它它是不是針對金融機構的排名可是因為我們不是金融機構啊"},{"start":372.842,"end":396.098,"text":"問題是今天我覺得還是在基金是你們投資那你們有沒有還是投資在這些我們覺得不是這麼OK的因為剛剛那個評比 剛剛有人看前一張他的標的是台灣金融機構可是也是國際氣候的那個評比因為勞金局不算是金融機構"},{"start":398.168,"end":418.126,"text":"好 再來我要談的是勞金局到底什麼時候才開始算因為勞金局在永續報告裡面寫得很清楚要等到上市櫃公司2029年才開始盤查跟確信才開始蒐集資料計算我們的財務碳排放 照這個時程的話最快2030年才會有第一個基準數"},{"start":421.239,"end":429.164,"text":"我補充報告 事實上我們勞金局持續在關注碳排的相關資訊我們內部在113年就完成112年我們投資組合自營的部分的碳排放114年就完成113年"},{"start":436.749,"end":462.077,"text":"但是我們考量到資訊品質最主要就是因為金廣會在宣布他要在上市櫃公司2027年完成碳盤查2029年才完成確信所以我們考量到目前的資訊品質我們在我們規劃的路徑上我們規劃在2026年也就是今年我們提前"},{"start":462.997,"end":475.248,"text":"因為我們經過兩年的評估檢視我們的資訊品質然後也仿佛去不同的來源去核對所以現在是2027嗎沒有我們會是維持到2029沒有沒有沒有我剛剛有報告就是說我們經過這幾年的收集跟相關事實上我們內部都有資料"},{"start":481.613,"end":507.597,"text":"那我們會配合我們因為我們兩年發布一次永續報告書我們會在2026年的永續報告書也就是今年的永續報告書揭露我們國內自營投資如果我們委託我們委託有117個帳戶那這個金額也很龐大我們有400多檔的股票所以我們如果說我們檢視再重新檢視後我們會一起提前在今年的2026年永續報告書一併揭露好"},{"start":511.38,"end":537.588,"text":"因為你看原來我們的勞金局說話我覺得這個問題很大因為現在退府基金都已經完成了財務碳排放的一個揭露所以我覺得你們不是做不到為什麼因為再來八大工股的行庫也都在進行這代表要做不是完全沒有基礎勞金局也不能再用基金規模差異我們的基礎數據是不是可靠來做回應"},{"start":539.901,"end":556.541,"text":"只要求就是要開始做了所以現在外界質疑很直接別人已經做到的事情為什麼勞金局還要等因為國家訂的目標事實上是2030年的減碳要到30%這就變成一個很荒謬的狀況也就是說國家都已經要交成績單了"},{"start":557.462,"end":574.638,"text":"老金局卻還要再等說什麼時候開始計分那我辦公室已經跟老金局溝通過好幾次所以我要請教部長說真的要等到2029開始算嗎還是反正剛剛講說你2026年就會開始嘛那就是會是比我們剛剛得到那前面我們溝通都一直"},{"start":575.238,"end":596.223,"text":"溝通無效啦那不知道為什麼我還是要說明我覺得關鍵的概念是風險所以怎麼看待這個氣候的風險人權的風險因為對勞軍局來說他們也需要對這麼多的勞工他們的勞工的錢拿到這個政府的基金來投資他也要對收益負滿大的沉重的責任"},{"start":597.123,"end":622.289,"text":"所以這個風險怎麼認知其實會關乎到勞軍局在這裡面各種基金運用跟投資的判斷那我也請他們說如果今天在國際上面對於氣候的風險的認定有一些新的看法請勞軍局我們應該要跟上那我覺得這件事情是重要的關鍵部長我覺得為什麼國際會有這樣子也關乎到我們地球的生存的量我覺得這也很至為關鍵"},{"start":623.129,"end":641.964,"text":"所以接下來我要談執行策略面對高碳排的產業國際上已經有很多做法很清楚了包括挪威、荷蘭、法國、韓國還有我們臺灣不少民間金融機構都已經設定投資門檻訂定了一個撤資的時程承諾不再新增對於我們的煤炭跟"},{"start":642.845,"end":665.752,"text":"美電廠的一個投資並且逐步撤出所以反過來看勞金局我們辦公室在溝通的時候勞金局目前還是堅持以義核作為主要的策略我要請教部長原因是什麼你真的認為單靠義核效果是可以期待的嗎為什麼在面對高碳排投資的時候我們的那個撤資始終事實上不是一個優先的一個選項"},{"start":668.429,"end":683.985,"text":"我想要跟委員還是說明因為我知道勞運局的壓力他們真的擔負了這麼多的勞工然後甚至有些基金還有這個財務上面的挑戰比方說勞保基金還有財務上面的挑戰"},{"start":685.106,"end":711.882,"text":"所以他們其實對於收益這件事情他們的壓力是非常非常大的所以還是一樣我覺得今天有可能很多種路徑可以達到這個相關的方向可是我們還是把這個風險的認定的方式我覺得我認為在風險認定的方式大家可以做多做討論今天如果的確因為氣候的風險或環境的風險造成某一些投資的標的他的風險也急劇升高很多那這個該減少就減少"},{"start":713.423,"end":732.555,"text":"我覺得必須從風險的角度來看待對 不一定是我們單押在某一種路徑上面某一種工具上面我要對勞金局說義和事實上是世界潮流這個來提出討論因為荷蘭的兩大退休基金ABP跟我們的"},{"start":733.095,"end":749.395,"text":"PFZW原本也不是一開始就是測試他們一開始是採取的的確也是義核策略但問題是和化石燃料公司義核多年之後他們最後得到一個結論是義核成效真的事實上是有限的所以最後還是要"},{"start":750.897,"end":764.109,"text":"請部長有具體的兩個那個答案剛已經講是老金局現在的義和到底有沒有要求機械改善的明確的時程然後另外一個是如果義和沒有達標的時候有沒有一個撤資的機制"},{"start":768.497,"end":787.118,"text":"剛剛委員提的這兩個我們可以研議但是就像剛剛提到的我們政府基金我們基本上是不會去對外宣布我們對某個公司某個產業去撤資但是我們是一個長期財務性的投資我們在投資的流程已經納入了"},{"start":787.918,"end":806.913,"text":"這個氣候邊遷風險所以如果我們看到公司並沒有如預期的他所做的承諾我們當然隨時可以在投資的部分做處理所以委員的所提出來我們也會很我覺得這如果沒有辦法做的話當然外界就很難相信說"},{"start":808.035,"end":824.492,"text":"基金局現在談的義和真的能產生效果嗎為什麼我覺得今天你說叫老虎不要吃肉然後我念佛經給你聽然後老虎就真的不吃肉嗎你如果沒有一些手段的話當然我就沒有辦法做到我還是要說我覺得我們還是會比較回到風險的概念"},{"start":825.478,"end":853.711,"text":"那從風險的認定來看待老金局在投資上面的合理性包括跟效益我認為還是必須回到這件事情上部長我對這件事情我會一直警惕因為這是我們國家對國人對國際社會對我們下一代的責任我相信部長投入這個議題的時間比我更長更深所以我也知道老金局同仁我很謝謝昨天趕出一份報告給我但是"},{"start":854.712,"end":862.186,"text":"僅對於我們的期程設定有做了一些更新我不是很滿意因為您做的事情很多我希望勞動部一個月內清楚告訴我們"},{"start":863.089,"end":891.583,"text":"你們的困難到底在哪裡?對這些要求做不到的原因是什麼?是缺錢還是缺人來執行?我從立院也會盡全力來協助我會請老英舉來參考國際的做法那國際做法上也許有些會走到比較前面一點那我覺得各種的做法我們都會來參考可是一樣概念我覺得回到風險的這事情上面那民間倡議設置這當然我們理解民間的倡議可是從政府的基金的角度他從風險來去做他相關的決策的判斷是 部長您"},{"start":892.003,"end":900.754,"text":"之前如果站在我這個位置上我相信你也會問同樣的問題啦所以我們很清楚必須以風險為核心好謝謝好謝謝秉諭請召委接下來請"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:26:38.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:26:38.259000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:26:38.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:26:38.760000+08:00","text":"麻煩勞動部部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T09:26:38.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:26:39.160000+08:00","text":"請洪申翰部長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:26:49.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:26:49.561000+08:00","text":"林委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:26:50.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:26:50.401000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:26:51.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:27:00.025000+08:00","text":"今天有很多議題要問，事實上我今天是帶著環團的託付來問你一些問題。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:27:00.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:27:51.144000+08:00","text":"國家已經宣示2050年的淨零轉型，賴總統也成立了氣候變遷對策委員會，而且訂出2030、2032、2035年的減碳目標，在這樣的政策方向下，勞動部主管的勞金局掌管了大概8兆元的基金，我完全同意基金操作當然要重視財務報酬，可是現在綠色金融已經是國際趨勢，金管會推動我國接軌IFRS永續揭露準則，要求上市櫃公司揭露永續風險、完成溫室氣體的盤查、提出氣候轉型的計畫，也就是，民間企業都被要求要做，政府基金當然沒有理由落後。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:27:51.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:28:21.298000+08:00","text":"所以我要請教部長一個很簡單的問題，在今年全國環境NGO大會中，環團針對勞金局提出了幾項要求，包括要求提升基金的透明度、揭露投資組合的減碳路徑、明確的化石燃料撤資的時間表，請問部長，對於環團在會議上的要求，為什麼勞金局會建議解除列管？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:28:21.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:28:26.599000+08:00","text":"是因為勞金局已經達成環團要求了嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:28:27.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:28:30.800000+08:00","text":"部長可不可以解釋一下建議解除列管的理由是什麼？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:28:31.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:28:52.934000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，關於我們基金的投資運用，要如何符合國際上不管是人權或者環境氣候的要求，其實我自己也跟勞金局做了好幾次討論，關於這部分，我請局長來說明。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:28:54.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:28:59.057000+08:00","text":"局長要講清楚，為什麼他們要求的，結果你要叫人家解除列管？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:28:59.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:29:00.118000+08:00","text":"你已經做到了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇局長郁卿","start":"2026-04-01T09:29:01.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:29:14.975000+08:00","text":"報告委員，事實上勞金局在永續投資的部分，尤其氣候變遷風險，我們一直都是持續向前也積極在推動，我們很多的措施都同步在推動。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇局長郁卿","start":"2026-04-01T09:29:15.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:29:51.603000+08:00","text":"至於環境基金NGO大會的項目，包括他可能希望我們能夠承諾對特定的高碳排企業撤資等等，我想藉這個機會跟委員報告，就國際整個趨勢來看，包括國際大型的退休基金都不主張撤資，我們也考慮到對勞工的影響，尤其我們勞動基金是政府大型的退休基金，不適合直接對外宣布我們對哪個公司、哪個產業去撤資。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇局長郁卿","start":"2026-04-01T09:29:52.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:29:58.106000+08:00","text":"至於是不是解除列管，其實不影響我們對於整個永續投資的進程……","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:29:58.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:29:59.987000+08:00","text":"對，那列管會有什麼困難嗎？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:29:59.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:30:02.869000+08:00","text":"因為他不是只有講撤資的時間表……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:30:06.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:30:23.509000+08:00","text":"委員，全國環境NGO大會我也很熟，因為他會有很多項列管，其實這個列管也是需要跟NGO討論，所以如果NGO覺得這個議題還有再討論下去的需要的話，我想大家也可以繼續再深入討論。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:30:26.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:30:45.314000+08:00","text":"部長，我要講得更精準一點，勞金局不是沒有做，可是做得還不夠，因為今天的問題不是形式上寫進報告書裡面，而是這是人民的退休基金，有沒有持續暴露在高碳排投資風險當中，這才是關鍵。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:30:45.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:30:59.941000+08:00","text":"勞金局在永續報告書裡面確實宣示我們的投資組合要朝淨零排放來前進，可是問題是只有宣示，沒有具體的路徑；只有方向，沒有短、中、長期的目標。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:30:59.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:31:23.687000+08:00","text":"反過來看勞金局，從WBA（世界基準聯盟）的國際永續金融評估來看，在全球400個受評機構當中，我們的排名大概是324名，幾乎是後段班，而且有好幾個項目是零，這不是環團自己講的，這是國際評比直接點出來的落差。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:31:24.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:31:31.770000+08:00","text":"所以想問部長，面對民間企業要求揭露、要求轉型，勞金局卻明顯落後，你怎麼看這個落後？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:31:32.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:31:36.472000+08:00","text":"而且每次團體拿出這個評分表資料出來的時候，我也想知道部長的回應到底是什麼？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:31:38.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:32:19.641000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我們可以再看一下這個評鑑的狀況，可是我想補充，其實我認為這個議題最根本、最關鍵的字叫做風險，當然對於氣候的風險要怎麼認定，國際上也有很多對氣候風險認定框架不斷演進的事情、趨勢，所以我也請蘇局長針對國際上對氣候風險怎樣認定、怎樣認知，包括人權風險怎樣認定跟認知，應該要跟上國際的趨勢，其實關鍵是這件事情。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:32:20.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:32:28.388000+08:00","text":"勞金局每天最重要的工作就是評估、判斷風險，哪些風險要納進來……","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:32:28.388000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T09:32:29.388000+08:00","text":"可是現在你們的排行已經在很後面。","quality":0.133},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:32:29.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:32:39.179000+08:00","text":"因為這個評鑑是針對金融機構排名，可是我們不是金融機構。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:32:42.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:32:53.890000+08:00","text":"問題是基金是你們在投資，你們有沒有投資這些我們覺得不是這麼OK的。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:32:54.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:32:59.173000+08:00","text":"因為剛剛那個評比的標的是寫臺灣金融機構，但是……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:32:59.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:33:03.897000+08:00","text":"可是也是國際氣候的評比。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:33:04.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:33:06.098000+08:00","text":"因為勞金局不算是金融機構。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:33:08.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:33:11.971000+08:00","text":"再來我要談的是，勞金局到底什麼時候才要開始算？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:33:12.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:33:28.126000+08:00","text":"因為勞金局在永續報告裡面寫得很清楚，要等到2029年才開始盤查跟確信上市櫃公司，才開始蒐集資料計算財務碳排放，照這個時程的話，最快2030年才會有第一個基準數。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"蘇局長郁卿","start":"2026-04-01T09:33:28.126000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T09:33:31.239000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇局長郁卿","start":"2026-04-01T09:33:31.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:34:01.294000+08:00","text":"我補充報告，事實上，勞金局持續在關注碳排的相關資訊，我們內部在113年就完成我們112年投資組合自營部分的碳排放，114年就完成113年的，但是我們考量到資訊品質，最主要就是因為金管會宣布上市櫃公司要在2027年完成碳盤查，2029年才完成確信。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"蘇局長郁卿","start":"2026-04-01T09:34:02.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:34:12.057000+08:00","text":"我們考量到目前的資訊品質，我們在規劃的路徑上，規劃在2026年，也就是今年，即我們提前。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"蘇局長郁卿","start":"2026-04-01T09:34:12.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:34:21.124000+08:00","text":"因為我們經過兩年的評估、檢視我們的資訊品質，也反覆從不同的來源核對，所以……","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:34:21.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:34:21.344000+08:00","text":"所以現在是2027嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:34:21.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:34:23.426000+08:00","text":"還是維持2029？沒有！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇局長郁卿","start":"2026-04-01T09:34:23.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:34:25.228000+08:00","text":"我剛剛有報告，我們經過這幾年蒐集相關資料，事實上，我們內部都有資料。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"蘇局長郁卿","start":"2026-04-01T09:34:32.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:34:43.015000+08:00","text":"因為我們兩年發布一次永續報告書，我們會在2026年的永續報告書，也就是今年的永續報告書揭露我們國內的自營投資。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"蘇局長郁卿","start":"2026-04-01T09:34:43.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:34:57.417000+08:00","text":"我們委託的有117個帳戶，這個金額很龐大，有四百多檔股票，如果我們再重新檢視後，會一起提前在今（2026）年的永續報告書一併揭露。","quality":0.549},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:35:03.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:35:14.344000+08:00","text":"原來勞金局的說法真的問題很大，因為現在退撫基金都已經完成了財務碳排放的揭露，所以我覺得你們不是做不到，為什麼？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:35:14.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:35:27.588000+08:00","text":"再來八大公股的行庫也都在進行，這代表要做不是完全沒有基礎，勞金局不能再用基金規模差異、基礎數據是不是可靠來回應。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:35:30.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:35:36.289000+08:00","text":"我一直要求要開始做了，所以現在外界質疑很直接，別人已經做到的事情，為什麼勞金局還要等？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:35:36.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:35:50.185000+08:00","text":"因為國家訂的目標是2030年減碳要到30%，就變成一個很荒謬的狀況，國家都已經要交成績單了，勞金局卻還要再等什麼時候才開始計分。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:35:50.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:35:57.511000+08:00","text":"我的辦公室已經跟勞金局溝通過好幾次，所以我要請教部長，真的要等到2029才開始算嗎？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:35:57.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:35:58.813000+08:00","text":"還是剛剛說的2026應該就會開始？","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:35:59.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:36:00.995000+08:00","text":"我剛剛是說今年就會開始。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:36:01.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:36:07.599000+08:00","text":"那就會比我們剛剛得到的……前面我們都一直溝通無效，不知道為什麼……","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:36:07.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:36:15.160000+08:00","text":"我還是要說明，我覺得關鍵的概念是風險，怎麼看待氣候的風險、人權的風險。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:36:15.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:36:33.625000+08:00","text":"因為對勞金局來說，對於這麼多的勞工，他們拿勞工的錢到政府的基金來投資，要對收益負蠻沉重的責任，所以這個風險怎麼認知會關乎到勞金局在各種基金運用跟投資的判斷。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:36:34.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:36:44.887000+08:00","text":"如果國際上對於氣候風險的認定有一些新的看法，我也請勞金局應該要跟上，我覺得這件事情是重要的關鍵。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:36:46.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:36:47.008000+08:00","text":"為什麼國際會有這樣的變化？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:36:47.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:36:52.289000+08:00","text":"也關乎到地球的生存的量能，我覺得這也很至為關鍵！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:36:53.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:37:15.466000+08:00","text":"接下來我要談執行策略，面對高碳排產業，國際上已經有很多做法很清楚了，包含挪威、荷蘭、法國、韓國，還有臺灣有不少民間金融機構都已經設定好投資門檻，訂定了撤資的時程，承諾不再新增對於煤炭跟燃煤電廠的投資並且逐步撤出。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:37:16.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:37:22.768000+08:00","text":"反過來看勞金局，在我們辦公室溝通的時候，勞金局還是堅持目前以議合作為主要策略。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:37:23.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:37:25.989000+08:00","text":"我要請教部長，原因是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:37:25.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:37:29.130000+08:00","text":"你真的認為單靠議合，效果是可以期待的嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:37:29.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:37:35.752000+08:00","text":"為什麼在面對高碳排投資的時候，撤資始終不是一個優先選項？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:37:38.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:38:11.956000+08:00","text":"我還是想要跟委員說明，我知道勞金局的壓力，他們真的擔負了這麼多的勞工，甚至有些基金還有財務上的挑戰，比方勞保基金還有財務上的挑戰，其實對於收益這件事情，他們的壓力是非常、非常大的，所以還是一樣，今天有可能很多種路徑可以達到相關的方向，可是我認為風險認定方式大家可以多討論。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:38:11.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:38:21.862000+08:00","text":"今天如果的確因為氣候的風險或環境的風險，造成某一些投資標的的風險急遽升高很多，該減少就減少。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:38:23.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:38:31.408000+08:00","text":"我覺得必須從風險的角度來看待，不一定是單押在某一種路徑或工具上面。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:38:31.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:38:57.673000+08:00","text":"我要對勞金局所說的議合是世界潮流提出討論，因為荷蘭的兩大退休基金ABP跟PFZW，原本也不是一開始就撤資，他們一開始採取的的確也是議合策略，但問題是和化石燃料公司議合多年之後，他們最後得到的結論是議合成效事實上真的有限。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:38:58.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:39:09.204000+08:00","text":"我最後還是有具體的兩個問題要請部長回應，剛剛已經講了，勞金局現在的議合到底有沒有要求企業改善的明確時程？","quality":0.673},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:39:10.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:39:14.089000+08:00","text":"另外一個是，如果議合沒有達標的時候，有沒有撤資的機制？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"蘇局長郁卿","start":"2026-04-01T09:39:18.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:39:31.832000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員提的這兩個，我們可以研議，但是就像剛剛提到的，政府基金基本上不會對外宣布對某個公司、某個產業撤資。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇局長郁卿","start":"2026-04-01T09:39:32.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:39:51.089000+08:00","text":"我們是長期財務性的投資，在投資的流程已經納入了氣候變遷風險，如果我們看到公司並沒有如他所做的承諾，當然隨時可以在投資的部分處理，所以委員所提出的，我們也會再來……","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:39:54.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:40:02.179000+08:00","text":"如果這個沒有辦法做，外界就很難相信勞金局現在談的議合真的能產生效果，為什麼？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:40:02.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:40:07.265000+08:00","text":"你叫老虎不要吃肉，唸佛經給牠聽，老虎就真的不吃肉嗎？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:40:07.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:40:10.048000+08:00","text":"你如果沒有一些手段，當然他就沒有辦法做到。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:40:10.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:40:25.503000+08:00","text":"我還是要說我們還是需要回到風險的概念，從風險的認定來看待勞金局在投資上的合理性，包括效益，我認為還是必須回到這件事情。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:40:26.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:40:37.708000+08:00","text":"我會一直緊盯這件事情，因為這是國家對國人、對國際社會、對下一代的責任，我相信部長投入這個議題的時間比我更長、更深。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:40:40.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:40:55.230000+08:00","text":"我很謝謝勞金局的同仁昨天趕出一份報告給我，但是僅對於期程設定有做了一些更新，我不是很滿意，因為能做的事情很多，我希望勞動部一個月內清楚的告訴我們，你們的困難到底在哪裡？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:40:55.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:40:56.811000+08:00","text":"對這些要求做不到的原因是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:40:56.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:40:58.492000+08:00","text":"是缺錢，還是缺人來執行？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:40:58.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:41:00.553000+08:00","text":"我在立院也會盡全力來協助。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:41:00.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:41:21.003000+08:00","text":"我會請勞金局參考國際的做法，國際的做法也許有些會走在比較前面一點，各種做法我們都會來參考，可是一樣概念，回到風險這件事情，民間倡議撤資，我們當然理解民間的倡議，但是從政府基金的角度，要從風險來做相關決策的判斷。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:41:21.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:41:25.487000+08:00","text":"您如果站在我這個位置上，我相信您也會問同樣的問題。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-01T09:41:26.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:41:28.791000+08:00","text":"是，所以我很清楚必須以風險為核心。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-01T09:41:29.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:41:29.792000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T09:41:29.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:41:30.493000+08:00","text":"謝謝林委員召委。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T09:41:30.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:41:30.754000+08:00","text":"接下來請陳菁徽委員發言。","quality":0.364}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}