{"error":false,"id":["168086"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168086,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168086","日期":"2026-04-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-6","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":6,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-01T10:06:16+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-01T10:18:08+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:52","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c57efe062cb0cfeacbad885c3c28ba2b24047e563c2ae1609f774445f8f1023ca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃仁","委員發言時間":"10:06:16 - 10:18:08","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":0.55409375,"end":1.26284375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":1.7353437500000002,"end":3.06846875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":4.199093749999999,"end":4.941593750000001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":14.290343750000002,"end":23.554718750000003,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":14.72909375,"end":14.99909375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":23.925968750000003,"end":24.297218750000003,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":25.242218750000003,"end":69.96096875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":70.34909375000001,"end":76.05284375000001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":76.66034375000001,"end":94.24409375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":94.53096875,"end":99.82971875000001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":100.03221875000001,"end":101.66909375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":101.95596875000001,"end":104.95971875000001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":105.22971875,"end":137.51159375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":137.98409375,"end":163.92096875000001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":164.47784375,"end":166.06409375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":166.30034375000002,"end":169.64159375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":170.04659375,"end":172.18971875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":172.66221875000002,"end":186.75284375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":186.61784375000002,"end":212.80784375000002,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":212.40284375000002,"end":214.79909375000003,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":213.83721875,"end":215.49096875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":215.62596875000003,"end":234.96471875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":235.85909375000003,"end":242.35596875000002,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":243.18284375000002,"end":244.98846875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":245.73096875000002,"end":246.82784375000003,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":247.16534375,"end":249.98346875000001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":250.23659375000003,"end":251.16471875000002,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":251.23221875000002,"end":278.87346875000003,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":268.46159375,"end":268.71471875000003,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":279.04221875,"end":279.44721875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":279.88596875,"end":314.34471875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":314.80034375,"end":349.73159375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":349.73159375,"end":349.76534375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":349.83284375,"end":358.59096875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":359.21534375000005,"end":359.94096875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":360.43034375,"end":362.30346875000004,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":362.84346875,"end":378.35159375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":378.87471875,"end":409.68846875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":409.65471875000003,"end":409.67159375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":409.68846875,"end":410.02596875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":409.89096875,"end":412.79346875000005,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":412.94534375,"end":449.02409375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":449.14221875000004,"end":453.83346875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":454.40721875,"end":500.98221875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":460.24596875000003,"end":462.16971875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":500.98221875,"end":511.93409375000005,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":512.2378437500001,"end":516.62534375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":516.91221875,"end":542.24159375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":542.7478437500001,"end":543.64221875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":544.1147187500001,"end":550.25721875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":550.69596875,"end":554.6615937500001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":555.16784375,"end":558.00284375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":558.3740937499999,"end":559.3528437500001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":559.9097187500001,"end":565.05659375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":565.59659375,"end":567.1828437500001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":567.7734687500001,"end":568.6340937500001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":568.98846875,"end":571.09784375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":571.35096875,"end":572.4309687500001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":572.90346875,"end":576.1940937500001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":576.41346875,"end":579.0459687499999,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":579.40034375,"end":584.4797187500001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":585.30659375,"end":586.7240937500001,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":586.7578437500001,"end":613.6059687500001,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":614.53409375,"end":619.59659375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":619.9172187500001,"end":648.99284375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃委員仁","start":648.99284375,"end":683.6709687500002,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":649.00971875,"end":652.92471875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":654.9497187500001,"end":656.40096875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":683.6203437500001,"end":710.9072187500001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":711.0928437500002,"end":711.3628437500001,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長佳龍","start":711.6328437500001,"end":712.39221875,"speaker_score":0.951}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.843,"end":28.191,"text":"謝謝主席,有請我們林部長請林部長部長,針對這一次的WTO第十四屆的部長會議部長級的一個會議剛結束很遺憾我國被迫拒絕出席"},{"start":29.11,"end":58.402,"text":"那當然這是我們自從2001年加入WTO之後首次沒有出席WTO部長級會議原因是受中共的影響主辦國柯麥隆對我國極度的不尊重矮化我國的地位外交部為了維護國家的尊嚴主動記者出席會議本席認同外交部維護中華民國國家的尊嚴的決定"},{"start":59.122,"end":72.815,"text":"那但是再請問沒有出席WTO部長級的會議對我國有什麼樣的不利的影響或者損失你來說明一下好不好報告委員對這一次在柯耐農舉辦的部長級會議我們"},{"start":77.181,"end":93.931,"text":"這個交涉的結果啦雖然我們沒有參與但是我們也都積極掌握會議的進行那最主要是他矮化我們之外因為不能形成先例那我們交涉還有包括各國包括這個WTO的這個秘書處啊都覺得我們的主張是有道理所以最後"},{"start":95.031,"end":110.196,"text":"這個柯麥隆政府是有調整不過他在調整裡面又有一些錯誤那已經來不及再更正比如說他給我們要能夠免簽入境已經不是用原來的這個所謂的這個台灣然後 Province of China"},{"start":110.876,"end":137.241,"text":"可是名字也寫錯然後性別也錯那這個時候時間已經壓縮到很接近大會那我們是有做好各種應變的方案不過最後綜合考量並沒有就是來得及有辦法在他更改之後去出席這個也有新聞稿加以說明也就是說我們爭取所有參加的機會但是因為這些錯誤我們如果沒有再要求他更正"},{"start":138.041,"end":163.388,"text":"那就會變成慣例所以這個也是在外交上有時候某種形式跟實質關係的都是互相影響但是對我們這次權益就這次柯麥隆所主辦的會議我們並沒有因此受到直接的影響我們也因此開始交涉以後要主辦這種所謂的M部長級會議的國家在申辦的時候就必須對台灣承諾"},{"start":164.548,"end":190.065,"text":"不能有任何矮化對我們差別待遇我們就是在WTO裡面我們就是台澎金馬關稅領域那一般也用台灣這樣的方式在稱呼尤其是涉及入境他卻以為說因為涉及到這個入境是他單方的國家的主權那事實上這個大家當然要了解嘛因為這個是有政治力的介入所以我們從2001年加入WTO"},{"start":191.346,"end":216.551,"text":"這一次是首次拒絕出席但是我們要維護中華民國的尊嚴我們也要強勢的來表達對WTO的一個會議的出席的一個尊嚴所以部長你也特別要表明我們的一個強勢的立場而且非常要受到尊重他要遵守相關的規定所以從這一次的事件看來"},{"start":217.611,"end":244.821,"text":"本席也看到了我國外交工作的兩難實際上以中共的期望就是要減少我國的一個國際的參與如果從結論來看部長會不會覺得我國主動拒絕出席會議之後正符合了中共的一個心意是不是報告委員這當然是綜合評估如果是可以出席我們真的一切的辦法我們還是要出席"},{"start":245.799,"end":263.499,"text":"可是因為他有錯誤,這個錯誤他又來不及更正的時候我們必須在捍衛我們國家的地位的情形之下抗議,抗議完當然持續交涉,事實上他們也承認有一些失誤"},{"start":264.58,"end":278.519,"text":"所以這個就不太會成為以後的一個範例反而是未來要主辦的國家在申請的時候都必須跟我們或跟這個秘書處表示很清楚他必須平等對待台灣"},{"start":280.241,"end":295.827,"text":"至於在榮邦計畫即將要成立榮邦經貿辦事處並籌授榮邦經貿公司這是不是代表了我國將以投資外交期待於援外的外交看了這個報告,榮邦經貿辦事處是參考中美洲的經貿辦事處但是本席發現風險部分"},{"start":302.789,"end":328.084,"text":"榮邦經貿辦事處比中美洲經貿辦事處高出非常多那成立這個榮邦經貿辦事處的風險是什麼但是本席認為有絕對風險為什麼我們現在像是一個投資的平台是一個政府支持的投資網路如果透明度不夠"},{"start":328.764,"end":349.475,"text":"很容易被質疑是否特定企業因此得到政府的資源是否形成政府背書替特定企業開發海外的市場有將來以後可能會發生如何防治如何控管我想部長你來說明一下"},{"start":350.295,"end":377.533,"text":"報告委員 雖然是叫做農幫經貿辦事處他是參考中美洲經貿辦事處可是他並沒有這個一個基金我們現在就是行政上的協助那希望說透過我們政府鼓勵企業他們多去做跟我們友邦的經貿這個關係包括投資貿易那我們台灣有很多的這個這方面的know-how可是他們我們的邦交國台灣會覺得有點"},{"start":379.274,"end":393.278,"text":"為什麼我們都不去投資他呢或者是為什麼我們都不買他的東西呢啊雖然我們政府我們如果自己政府去做我們的很難去持續啦還是要企業有商業模式所以剛剛委員擔心的這個倒是不用擔心因為我們中美洲經貿辦事處很有經驗他也會來協助龍幫經貿辦事處雖然他是個任務編組"},{"start":398.759,"end":427.759,"text":"它並不是去成立新的一筆基金但是我們讓企業想要去幫忙我們榮邦的時候它有一個行政上的我舉例來講我們的邦交國我們都有大使館我們可以收集所有可以做貿易的項目然後它的產量它的季節它的品質等等我是認為提供這些資訊的服務然後讓我們的企業比較容易願意去那邊可能採購啦可能去加工啦可能去就是說做各種的投資"},{"start":428.579,"end":453.305,"text":"那這個是應該想說也是我們現在在做總和外交一個所謂公私協力公部門跟私部門合作的一個我覺得是應該是在全世界包括現在川普政府他也是在做所謂的commercial diplomacy那不要講說日本歐洲國家他們長期其實都透過投資在帶動貿易以及帶動整個雙邊或各方的外交關係"},{"start":454.508,"end":478.729,"text":"所以今天我們提到這個就是一個責任的歸屬一定要劃清清楚就行政服務啦 協助啦投資遭遇到項目的失敗邦交國這個邦交國政治異動甚至斷交之後投資歸屬及是否再繼續所以外交部對於這些問題的責任釐清是否明確那第三是榮邦計畫"},{"start":480.73,"end":497.679,"text":"辦事處設立的根本是我國近年來邦交國流失速度極快政府想用投資綁定邦交但是還是免不了外交競價的一個風險可能被迫提供邦交國不符合我國利益的一個產業投資會不會將來以後會發生這樣的事情"},{"start":501.021,"end":516.145,"text":"包括我也應該不會我舉例以前我們去我們在榮邦計畫不只是經貿啦又是投資那我們在開發過去的工業區其實就遇到開發完之後我們無法招商因為其實企業需要什麼我們需要為他們服務就像台灣的政府"},{"start":517.006,"end":541.824,"text":"我們的這個單一窗口啦 我們這個同步平行作業就像科學園區或各個產業園區就台灣的這個經驗 尤其是行政上面的這個我們的這些經驗是很寶貴 這是無價的那他們國家要發展 他們也期待台灣把我們台灣經驗能夠輸出給他所以我們其實除了在促進所謂雙方面的所謂的這個經貿的這個外交以外其實我們也在幫他做制度建構"},{"start":542.785,"end":566.981,"text":"跟能力建構其實這個就是在幫助他怎麼進入世界市場他們有很好的東西但是他們的附加價值不高那這時候我們透過台灣市場的需求來幫助他比如說他們生產的像在這個馬紹爾群島他有這個糯粒果他是一個很對這個提高免疫能力可是他們就不知道怎麼去加工那我們如果能夠跟他契作"},{"start":567.922,"end":584.33,"text":"還有氣收那我們又讓他這個加工之後可以價格可以提升然後他就建立品牌之後因為他跟美國又有特殊的COVA這種協約的關係就可能可以銷到美國他有很多好東西但他不知道怎麼去把它變成一個好的商品"},{"start":585.35,"end":613.149,"text":"好 最後 榮邦經貿辦事處形塑出的一個外交模式那也很符合部長的一個雙軌外交的理念那當政府外交透過榮邦經貿這個體系的結合企業聯盟外交本身很擔心政府的外交政策最後會被企業投資利益的會不會被利益綁架以上 那請說明"},{"start":614.602,"end":624.945,"text":"因為我們是請企業幫忙我們外交啦其實他們投資在其他的領域或做生意所以很多創業楷模都是經濟部認定的那些創業楷模都是中小企業為主"},{"start":631.307,"end":648.71,"text":"這些都是台灣打造經濟部落國非常好的這個可以說可以參加我們所謂的聯合艦隊啦所以我倒是說台灣的 我們政府的資源有限那怎麼去讓民間 尤其是企業能夠促進跟我們邦交國的各方面的交流合作"},{"start":649.831,"end":669.905,"text":"這個不會有什麼負面或是說太大的負擔注意上述的風險當然也要設置好一個防火牆以免會傷及到我們外交部的形象既然我們有心要做一個經貿的邦交來帶著企業過去引領、引導"},{"start":672.146,"end":691.772,"text":"引導他們這個所謂投資的一個環境當然是一個好事但是我們也不要被企業反過來綁架了我們外交的一些事務好不好好 我跟委員說明一下我舉例來講比如說像創凱總會啦還有這個工商協定會台北市進出口"},{"start":694.553,"end":710.644,"text":"這個工會他們就是在幫我們做榮邦經貿推動的最主要的參與者他們很多都是領導的企業他們平常的社會形象都非常的好我們會注意委員提到的在新藝的時候怎麼也做到防弊好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:06:16.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:06:20.444000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請林部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T10:06:20.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:06:32.307000+08:00","text":"請林部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:06:32.307000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T10:06:33.307000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:06:32.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:06:32.808000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:06:33.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:07:09.060000+08:00","text":"WTO第14屆部長級會議剛結束，很遺憾我國被迫拒絕出席，這是我們自從2001年加入WTO之後，首次沒有出席WTO部長級會議，原因是受中共的影響，主辦國喀麥隆對我國極度不尊重，矮化我國地位，外交部為了維護國家尊嚴，主動拒絕出席會議。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:07:09.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:07:26.633000+08:00","text":"本席認同外交部維護中華民國國家尊嚴的決定，但是請問，沒有出席WTO部長級會議對我國有什麼樣的不利影響或者損失，你來說明一下，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:07:26.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:08:25.840000+08:00","text":"報告委員，對這一次在喀麥隆舉辦的部長級會議，雖然我們沒有參與，但是我們也都積極掌握會議的進行，最主要是因為它矮化我們，這不能形成先例，我們的交涉，包括各國、包括WTO的秘書處，也都覺得我們的主張是有道理的，所以最後喀麥隆政府是有調整，不過他的調整裡面又有一些錯誤，但是已經來不及再更正，譬如他給我們的免簽入境已經不是用原來所謂的「Taiwan,Province of China」，可是名字也寫錯、性別也錯，這個時候時間已經壓縮到很接近大會的時間，我們是有做好各種應變方案，不過最後綜合考量，並沒有辦法來得及在他更改之後出席，這個也有新聞稿加以說明。","quality":0.888},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:08:26.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:08:43.003000+08:00","text":"也就是我們爭取所有參加的機會，但是如果我們沒有要求他更正這些錯誤，就會變成慣例，這也就是在外交上有時候某種形式與實質關係都是互相影響的。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:08:43.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:09:03.530000+08:00","text":"至於我們的權益，就這次喀麥隆所主辦的會議，我們並沒有因此受到直接的影響，我們也因此開始交涉，以後要主辦這種所謂部長級會議的國家在申辦的時候就必須對臺灣承諾，不能有任何矮化、對我們差別待遇。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:09:04.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:09:22.603000+08:00","text":"在WTO裡面，我們就是臺澎金馬關稅領域，一般也用「臺灣」這樣的方式在稱呼，尤其是涉及入境，他卻以因為涉及到入境，是他單方的國家主權，事實上，大家當然都了解，這個是有政治力的介入。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:09:23.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:09:29.166000+08:00","text":"所以我們從2001年加入WTO，這一次是首次拒絕出席……是。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:09:29.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:09:39.068000+08:00","text":"但是我們要維護中華民國的尊嚴，我們也要強勢來表達對WTO會議出席的尊嚴……對。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:09:39.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:09:47.950000+08:00","text":"所以部長也特別要表明我們強勢的立場，而且要受到尊重……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:09:48.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:09:50.390000+08:00","text":"對，他要遵守相關規定。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:09:50.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:10:10.717000+08:00","text":"從這一次的事件看來，本席也看到了我國外交工作的兩難，實際上，中共的期望就是要減少我國的國際參與，如果從結果論來看，部長會不會覺得我國主動拒絕出席會議正好符合了中共的心意，是不是？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:10:11.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:10:54.519000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這當然是綜合評估，如果可以出席，我們真的會用一切方法還是要出席，可是因為它有錯誤，這個錯誤他又來不及更正的時候，我們必須在捍衛國家地位的情形之下抗議，抗議完當然持續交涉，事實上，他們也承認有一些失誤，所以這個就不太會成為以後的範例，反而使未來要主辦的國家在申請的時候都必須跟我們或跟秘書處表示很清楚，他必須平等對待臺灣。好。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:10:57.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:11:09.286000+08:00","text":"榮邦計畫要成立榮邦經貿辦事處，並籌組榮邦經貿公司，這是不是代表未來我國將以投資外交取代援外外交？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:11:10.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:11:31.557000+08:00","text":"看這個報告，榮邦經貿辦事處是參考中美洲經貿辦事處，但是本席發現，在風險部分，榮邦經貿辦事處比中美洲經貿辦事處高出非常多，成立榮邦經貿辦事處的風險是什麼？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:11:32.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:11:35.899000+08:00","text":"本席認為有絕對風險，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:11:36.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:12:03.394000+08:00","text":"現在這個像是一個投資平臺，是一個由政府支持的投資網路，如果透明度不夠，很容易被質疑是否有特定企業因此得到政府資源、是否形成政府背書替特定企業開發海外市場，以後可能會發生，如何防制、如何控管？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:12:04.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:12:05.455000+08:00","text":"部長，你來說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:12:06.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:12:27.889000+08:00","text":"報告委員，雖然是叫做榮邦經貿辦事處，它是參考中美洲經貿辦事處，可是它並沒有一個基金，我們現在就是行政上的協助，希望透過政府鼓勵企業，讓他們多去跟我們友邦做經貿，包括投資、貿易。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:12:29.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:12:38.355000+08:00","text":"臺灣有很多這方面的know-how，可是我們的邦交國常常會覺得為什麼我們都不去投資他或者為什麼我們都不買他的東西呢？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:12:39.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:12:45.337000+08:00","text":"我們政府如果自己去做，很難去持續，還是要企業以商業模式來做。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:12:45.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:12:49.138000+08:00","text":"所以剛剛委員擔心的這個倒是不用擔心，因為我們中美洲經貿辦事處很有經驗，它也會來協助榮邦經貿辦事處。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:12:49.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:13:32.121000+08:00","text":"所以它是一個任務編組，並不是成立一個新的基金，但是我們讓企業想去幫忙我們榮邦計畫的時候有一個行政上的協助，舉例來講，我們在邦交國都有大使館，可以收集所有能做貿易的項目，包括它的產量、季節、品質等等，我是認為提供這些資訊的服務，讓我們的企業比較容易、願意去那邊進行採購、加工或是做各種投資，這應該也是我們現在在做總合外交所謂的公私協力，也就是公部門和私部門的合作。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:13:34.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:13:49.305000+08:00","text":"現在全世界包括川普政府也是在做所謂的commercial diplomacy，更不用說日本和歐洲國家，他們其實長期都透過投資在帶動貿易，同時帶動雙邊或各方的外交關係。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:13:50.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:13:55.973000+08:00","text":"所以今天本席提的就是責任歸屬一定要劃分清楚……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:13:56.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:13:57.794000+08:00","text":"就是行政的服務和協助啦！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:13:58.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:14:13.808000+08:00","text":"如果投資遭遇項目失敗、邦交國政治異動，甚至斷交後投資歸屬及是否繼續，外交部對這些問題的責任釐清是否明確？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:14:14.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:14:33.239000+08:00","text":"第三是榮邦經貿辦事處設立的根本是因為我國近年來邦交國流失速度極快，政府想用投資綁定邦交，但還是免不了外交競價的風險，可能會被迫提供邦交國不符合我國利益的產業投資。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:14:33.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:14:33.659000+08:00","text":"請問將來會不會發生這樣的事情？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:14:37.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:14:37.882000+08:00","text":"報告委員，應該不會。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:14:37.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:15:29.753000+08:00","text":"我們的榮邦計畫不只是經貿，也有的是投資，我們過去開發工業區其實就遇到過開發完之後無法招商的狀況，因為其實事業需要什麼，我們需要為他們服務，就像臺灣的政府，我們的單一窗口、同步平行作業，就像科學園區或各個產業園區，就是臺灣的經驗，尤其是行政上面的經驗是很寶貴的，這是無價的，其他國家要發展，也會期待臺灣把我們的臺灣經驗輸出給他們，所以我們其實除了促進雙方面的經貿外交以外，也在幫他們做制度建構和人力建構，這個就是在幫他們進入世界市場，他們有很好的東西，但是附加價值不高，這時我們透過臺灣市場的需求來幫助他。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:15:30.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:16:01.350000+08:00","text":"比如說，像馬紹爾群島生產的諾麗果可以提高免疫能力，但是他們就不知道怎麼去加工，我們如果能夠跟他契作又契收，讓它加工之後價格可以提升，建立品牌之後，因為他和美國又有特殊的COFA這種協約的關係，就可能可以銷到美國；他們有很多好東西，但是不知道怎麼把它變成好的商品。好。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:16:01.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:16:26.487000+08:00","text":"最後，榮邦經貿辦事處形塑出一個外交模式，也很符合部長雙軌外交的理念，當政府外交透過榮邦經貿體系結合企業聯盟外交，本席很擔心政府的外交政策最後會被企業投資利益綁架。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:16:29.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:16:29.129000+08:00","text":"請部長說明。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:16:31.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:16:53.375000+08:00","text":"我們是請企業幫忙我們的外交，其實他們投資其他領域或做生意，很多創業楷模都是經濟部認定的，這些創業楷模是以中小企業為主，都是臺灣打造經濟日不落國非常好的企業，可以參加我們所謂的的聯合艦隊。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:16:54.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:17:08.873000+08:00","text":"我是認為政府的資源有限，讓民間企業可以促進我們和邦交國在各方面的交流、合作，這個不會有什麼負面或太大的什麼負擔。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:17:08.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:17:11.735000+08:00","text":"還是要請部長注意上述的風險。","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:17:11.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:17:11.735000+08:00","text":"當然、當然。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:17:12.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:17:18.600000+08:00","text":"同時也要設計好防火牆，以免傷及外交部的形象。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:17:19.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:17:36.549000+08:00","text":"既然我們有心要以經貿邦交帶著企業過去，引導他們的投資環境，這當然是好事，但是也不要反過來讓我們的外交事務被企業綁架。","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-04-01T10:17:39.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:18:06.604000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明一下，舉例來講，比如說像創楷總會和工商協進會、臺北市進出口公會，他們就是在幫我們做榮邦經貿推動最主要的參與者，他們很多也都是領導的企業，平常的社會形象都非常好，我們會注意委員提到的，在興利的時候同時做到防弊。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"黃委員仁","start":"2026-04-01T10:18:06.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:18:06.644000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T10:18:07.144000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T10:18:10.858286+08:00","text":"接下來請林楚茵委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}