{"error":false,"id":["168089"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168089,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168089","日期":"2026-04-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-01T10:18:05+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-01T10:24:10+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:05","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c3a357a08754f21dd811c6ac3ddeb80e04047e563c2ae160905516ffde792dc4e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林沛祥","委員發言時間":"10:18:05 - 10:24:10","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林沛祥等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員柯志恩等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員楊瓊瓔等28人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員翁曉玲等20人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員林德福等31人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員涂權吉等23人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員許宇甄等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員黃健豪等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員羅智強等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員游顥等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員賴士葆等16人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員羅明才等18人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員陳菁徽等17人擬具「民法第一千二百二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「民法繼承編施行法增訂第十二條條文草案」案。\n【4月1日及2日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":11.556593750000001,"end":13.024718750000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":13.665968750000001,"end":15.825968750000001,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張專門委員翠恩","start":16.38284375,"end":17.918468750000002,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張專門委員翠恩","start":26.28846875,"end":26.727218750000002,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":27.63846875,"end":29.81534375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":30.034718750000003,"end":114.32534375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張專門委員翠恩","start":115.91159375000001,"end":144.56534375,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":121.98659375000001,"end":122.35784375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":144.83534375000002,"end":150.60659375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張專門委員翠恩","start":150.60659375,"end":151.55159375000002,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":152.93534375000002,"end":237.76596875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張專門委員翠恩","start":155.28096875,"end":155.51721875,"speaker_score":0.934},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":155.51721875,"end":155.66909375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":238.10346875000002,"end":240.07784375000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":240.07784375000003,"end":269.22096875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":269.22096875,"end":269.25471875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":270.80721875,"end":273.64221875000004,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":273.77721875000003,"end":284.71221875000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":285.89346875,"end":297.28409375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":297.43596875000003,"end":354.84471875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":355.41846875000005,"end":363.73784375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":362.87721875,"end":362.97846875000005,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員沛祥","start":363.73784375,"end":363.75471875000005,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":364.34534375000004,"end":365.13846875,"speaker_score":0.957}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.581,"end":27.688,"text":"好謝謝主席首先我想請教內政部請內政部專委張專委你好"},{"start":30.308,"end":47.347,"text":"內政部長期掌握台灣最真實的人口跟家庭結構數據那單身人口持續上升頂客族成為常態少子化跟高齡化同時發生家庭的樣貌早已經不再是過去這種所謂大家族共同生活的形態"},{"start":48.007,"end":68.933,"text":"我想這應該不只是說我們全民都有感覺到或甚至講全民共識那內政部應該比我們更清楚這樣的樣貌那我就想請問內政部在你們所掌握的這些趨勢之下現行兄弟姊妹仍享有特留份的制度設計還真的符合今天台灣的社會現實嗎"},{"start":70.433,"end":85.825,"text":"當一個人一生努力累積的財產在身後卻未必能完全依照他的意志來去做分配這樣的制度是否能符合現代社會對於財產自主跟遺主自由的期待呢"},{"start":86.605,"end":114.154,"text":"內政部應該是擁有最完整的真實數據但我要誠懇的是說政策不能一天到晚只留在描述現實必須要回應現實所以我要在這邊進一步先請教內政部內政部是否願意將這些結構變遷轉化成修法的明確立場還是說內政部還是單純的把這個數據只是留在所謂統計報告而不願意跨出所謂政策表態的內部呢"},{"start":116.914,"end":143.854,"text":"如果是針對嫂子的話還有兄弟姊妹這個部分因為我代表地政司啦那這個戶政司的資料就是說如果有需要這些比較統計數據可能要會後再請戶政司那邊提供那至於今天本案針對兄弟姊妹這個特留份的部分因為內政部如果針對不動產登記的部分我們是依循民法的規定所以今天討論的結果其實我們就會支持法務部的政策跟大院的立場這樣"},{"start":144.858,"end":149.855,"text":"好 那謝謝莊委 莊委請回再來就有請法務部 我們請黃次長麻煩了好 請黃次長"},{"start":153.247,"end":181.376,"text":"委員好市長好上上個禮拜我在委員會已經詢問過這個問題了當時部長的回應是繼承偏修法牽涉範圍很大需要整體檢討那這句話老實講聽起來很周全也很謹慎但是我也要很坦白的說與時俱進很重要如果沒有具體時程我那時候問說這個會期有沒有機會他說我們努力看看那時候我第一我記得第一時間部長的回應說今年"},{"start":182.256,"end":207.816,"text":"那我會認為說這個可能會不會對於說有這方面困擾的民眾可能這已經不會是少數是否有點可惜啦如果沒有具體時程這樣的說法很容易變成改革停滯的理由因為社會在變如果法律一直還停在總體檢討那就不是審慎而是落後今天我要特地很清楚的指出兄弟姊妹特留份是一個可以單獨處理的議題"},{"start":209.597,"end":235.69,"text":"他並不然一定要綁在整部繼承篇的全體修正之下更不應該因為整體工程浩大而讓已經具備社會討論基礎的議題被無限延後所以我在這裡具體來就教法務部是否願意將兄弟姊妹特留份單獨抽離優先提出修法版本第二是否已經還是一樣期程期程期程是否已經有明確的時程規劃還是"},{"start":238.231,"end":252.9,"text":"我們還是在原則性的討論當中好 各位報告我們也可以在這邊明確的說我們就這個計程片其實要修正的法條非常多我們整個立法的政策方向就是兄弟姊妹特留份的部分我們單獨把它抽離出來單獨的完成修法"},{"start":253.32,"end":269.04,"text":"只是這個修法要不要相關的配套措施這要再研議那只是說立法期程的部分我剛才跟委員報告了我們在四月的中旬即將召開第二次的專家會議我們希望能夠在這個會期結束之前就把法案預告"},{"start":271.549,"end":284.111,"text":"謝謝我們次長明確的回答老實說這個議題社會上已經討論非常久了而人民在意的核心也非常簡單我一生所努力得到的財產能不能由我自己來決定"},{"start":285.936,"end":303.375,"text":"但很可惜我們在政策回應上面我們常常出現一個問題我們不斷強調制度的複雜性卻沒有直接回應改革的具體進度這樣的回應其實是失焦的人民要的不是再多一份研究報告人民要的是一個清楚的方向跟一個可預成的時期"},{"start":304.156,"end":328.235,"text":"那今天我用最後一句話來作為今天整個質詢最後的話語法律的價值不在於它曾經有多完整而是在於它是否能持續回應時代的變遷兄弟姊妹特留份制度是過去設定特定社會結構下的產物但今天在台灣我們已經走到一個需要重新思考個人意志跟家庭關係界線的階段"},{"start":328.835,"end":353.503,"text":"因此我在這邊要很明確的呼籲請法務部跟內政部就算內政部今天有關的相關的官員沒有來不過內政部在這邊其實很重要因為整個社會形態的數據跟真實的樣貌內政部在掌握請法務部跟內政部不要再以整體修法作為延宕的理由拿出與時俱進的勇氣回應社會已經形成的共識謝謝"},{"start":355.612,"end":363.515,"text":"更為報告其實我們一再強調法務部是支持三族兄弟姊妹特留份只是要有一兩條的配套而已好我們一起努力謝謝好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:18:17.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:18:20.623000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，首先我想請教內政部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T10:18:22.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:18:22.484000+08:00","text":"請內政部專委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張專門委員翠恩","start":"2026-04-01T10:18:22.484000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T10:18:23.484000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:18:22.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:18:32.668000+08:00","text":"張專委你好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:18:35.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:19:02.069000+08:00","text":"內政部長期掌握臺灣最真實的人口及家庭結構數據，單身人口持續上升，頂客族成為常態，少子化跟高齡化同時發生，家庭的樣貌早已不再是過去所謂大家族共同生活的型態，應該不只是全民都有感覺到，或甚至講全民共識，內政部應該比我們更清楚這樣的樣貌。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:19:04.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:19:13.933000+08:00","text":"請問內政部，在你們掌握的這些趨勢之下，現行兄弟姐妹仍享有特留分的制度設計，真的還符合今天臺灣社會的現實嗎？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:19:15.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:19:30.805000+08:00","text":"當個人一生努力累積的財產，在身後卻未必能完全依照自己的意志做分配，這樣的制度是否仍符合現代社會對於財產自主及遺囑自由的期待呢？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:19:31.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:19:51.051000+08:00","text":"內政部應該是擁有最完整的真實數據，但我要誠懇地說，政策不能一天到晚只留在描述現實，必須要回應現實，所以我進一步請教內政部是否願意將這些結構變遷轉化成修法的明確立場？","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:19:51.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:19:59.134000+08:00","text":"或者內政部還是單純地把數據只留在統計報告，而不願意跨出政策表態的那一步呢？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"張專門委員翠恩","start":"2026-04-01T10:20:01.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:20:13.583000+08:00","text":"如果是針對少子化及兄弟姐妹的部分，因為我代表地政司，以戶政司的資料來講，如果有需要這些比較統計數據，可能要會後再請戶政司那邊提供。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"張專門委員翠恩","start":"2026-04-01T10:20:14.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:20:28.854000+08:00","text":"至於今天本案針對兄弟姐妹特留分的部分，因為針對不動產登記的部分，內政部是依循民法的規定，所以就今天討論的結果，我們會支持法務部的政策跟大院的立場。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:20:29.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:20:31.062000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝專委，專委請回。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:20:32.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:20:34.173000+08:00","text":"再來就有請法務部黃次長，麻煩了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T10:20:34.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:20:34.855000+08:00","text":"請黃次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-04-01T10:20:38.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:20:38.447000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:20:40.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:20:40.028000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:20:40.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:21:15.522000+08:00","text":"上上個禮拜我在委員會已經詢問過這個問題了，當時部長的回應是繼承編修法牽涉範圍很大，需要整體檢討，老實講這句話聽起來很周全、也很謹慎，但是我要很坦白地說，與時俱進很重要，如果沒有具體時程，我那時候問這個會期有沒有機會，他說：「我們努力看看」，我記得那時候第一時間部長的回應是今年，我認為有這方面困擾的民眾可能不會是少數，是否有點可惜？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:21:16.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:21:27.271000+08:00","text":"如果沒有具體時程，這樣的說法很容易變成改革停滯的理由，因為社會在變，如果法律一直還停在總體檢討，那就不是審慎，而是落後。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:21:28.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:21:45.943000+08:00","text":"今天我要特地很清楚地指出，兄弟姐妹特留分是一個可以單獨處理的議題，並不一定要綁在整部繼承編的全體修正之下，更不應該因為整體工程浩大，而讓已經具備社會討論基礎的議題被無限延後。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:21:46.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:21:55.127000+08:00","text":"所以我在這裡具體就教法務部：第一，是否願意將兄弟姐妹特留分單獨抽離，優先提出修法版本？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:21:55.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:22:04.812000+08:00","text":"第二，還是一樣的問題：期程、期程、期程，是否已經有明確的時程規劃，還是還在原則性的討論當中？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-04-01T10:22:05.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:22:22.625000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們可以在這邊明確地說，繼承編其實要修正的法條非常多，我們整個立法的政策方向就是兄弟姐妹特留分的部分單獨把它抽離出來、單獨地完成修法，只是這個修法要不要相關的配套措施還要再研議。","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-04-01T10:22:23.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:22:34.020000+08:00","text":"至於立法期程的部分，我剛才跟委員報告了，我們在4月中旬即將召開第2次專家會議，希望能夠在這個會期結束之前就把法案預告。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:22:36.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:22:37.932000+08:00","text":"謝謝次長明確的回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:22:38.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:23:01.908000+08:00","text":"老實說，對於這個議題社會上已經討論非常久了，人民在意的核心非常簡單，就是一生所努力得到的財產能不能由自己來決定；但很可惜，在政策回應上常常出現一個問題，我們不斷強調制度的複雜性，卻沒有直接回應改革的具體進度，這樣的回應其實是失焦的。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:23:02.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:23:08.355000+08:00","text":"人民要的不是多一份研究報告，人民要的是一個清楚的方向跟一個可預期的時程。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:23:09.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:23:13.840000+08:00","text":"今天我用一句話作為今天整個質詢最後的結語。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:23:13.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:23:20.865000+08:00","text":"法律的價值不在於它曾經有多完整，而是在於它是否能持續回應時代的變遷。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:23:20.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:23:33.215000+08:00","text":"兄弟姐妹特留分制度是過去特定社會結構下的產物，但今天的臺灣已經走到需要重新思考個人意志跟家庭關係界線的階段。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:23:33.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:23:49.320000+08:00","text":"因此我在這邊要很明確地呼籲，請法務部跟內政部……就算今天內政部相關的官員沒有來，不過內政部在這邊其實很重要，因為整個社會型態的數據跟真實的樣貌都由內政部在掌握。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:23:50.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:23:58.503000+08:00","text":"請法務部跟內政部不要再以整體修法作為延宕的理由，要拿出與時俱進的勇氣，回應社會已經形成的共識。謝謝。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-04-01T10:24:01.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:24:07.292000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們一再強調，法務部支持刪除兄弟姐妹特留分，只是要有一、兩條的配套而已。謝謝。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-01T10:24:07.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:24:08.495000+08:00","text":"好，我們一起努力，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T10:24:08.995000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T10:24:10.995000+08:00","text":"謝謝林沛祥委員。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T10:24:11.295000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T10:24:14.723571+08:00","text":"接下來有請沈發惠委員詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}