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好部長不愧是交通部長基本上你的答案都是對的就是除了剛剛我們這個緊急簡述的認知不太一樣之外但是我們要提到這個部分這個在交通道道交條例第42條只要誤打的或者說認知不同的他的裁罰標準不依規定使用燈光就是法1200以上3600元以下的罰款那我今天跟提出來這個討論其實不管"},{"start":98.675,"end":116.702,"text":"哪一種情況我們要去討論說到底這個規範是要適應民情還是要加強這個宣導就像剛剛部長你提到的幾個問題以這個突發情況緊急減速或者是我們經常在路邊停車的時候我們打方向燈法規上說要打方向燈但實際上怎麼樣很多人當然會打雙閃燈那被檢舉那就被罰錢了嘛"},{"start":118.143,"end":139.705,"text":"那他本來的原因當然是希望說能夠警示後方說我這邊要停車或等等的所以來打這個警示燈因為打方向燈會有什麼問題因為打方向燈除非你一次倒車路過或一次路邊停車方向盤轉一次就成功了不然你那個方向燈會跳回去耶那又會被檢舉所以我覺得這個法規應該要重新的來去檢討怎麼樣適用包含剛剛信箱委員提案的那個部分"},{"start":140.646,"end":155.664,"text":"法規怎麼改或是說這個階段是用心勸導然後去了解一下真實的使用規範原來包含說像第六點這個禮貌回應他設這樣的道路我們常常在快速道路高速公路上切車道的時候看到前車跟我們感謝就打雙紅燈我如果擷取他"},{"start":156.735,"end":178.712,"text":"他要說謝謝喔 我可以檢舉他啊一千二三千六都是罰燈就來了所以這部分交通部的立場有沒有願意去做相關的檢討跟改善報告委員這方面的規定其實是跟世界的這個標準是一致的燈號的使用這個世界有一定的標準所以我們符合世界的這個一致的規範但是委員所提的這個很務實"},{"start":179.853,"end":207.004,"text":"一般民眾到底理解或不理解我相信一般的民眾用車開車的習慣我自己也開車有一些確實跟我們一般的習慣是不太一樣所以我覺得考駕照的時候要大家讀到這麼細也有點困難所以我認為這個部分規範的部分依據國際的標準但在執法的過程我們希望以勸導為優先我們所理解的其實警方不會主動來抓這方面"},{"start":207.904,"end":227.876,"text":"那但是如果有民眾檢舉的時候我們也期待說警方是不是用勸導作為優先至少讓民眾知道說這樣子的做法可能不符合我們目前的規定那以後就要注意因為我想要討論就是還是要回到法規回到法規本身當初立這個法或是這個燈號我們在開車的時候打任何不管左轉燈右轉燈這個警示燈"},{"start":228.897,"end":250.394,"text":"他的目的是什麼嘛 今天車子設計這個警示燈 比如說我們放 我會在這個時刻有人會在路邊臨停的時候打警示燈 或在後 倒車的時候打警示燈或是禮貌的回應他車讓道 我們都很清楚他的用意 他不是為了違規或他甚至他是故 他是刻意的去做這件事情 結果他是違規的所以我覺得在宣導上面 或在法規 在這個質疑上面 應該要有一個平衡啦"},{"start":250.854,"end":269.221,"text":"要回到原意嘛他不是故意要圍堵他不是就他打了這幾次並不會造成交通事故吧沒錯好不好這部分所以交通部目前調就是往勸導的方向去去執行對我們希望可以用勸導讓民眾能夠理解好部長謝謝喔那接下來喔我想最近國人很關心所謂的汽車安全的問題我想這兩天這新聞都非常大"},{"start":269.801,"end":291.655,"text":"好有的車子獲得這個TNCAP的這個認證五顆星那有的車子已經上市了好但是呢這個平等是零顆星那零顆星呢當然他們就回應說他們的車體結構很堅實而且所有等級車款都通過國家嚴謹安全審驗並取得安全審驗合格證他講的也沒有錯他確實有取得所以他才能上市嘛那問題來了"},{"start":293.256,"end":310.988,"text":"這個當初安全誰合格證不是你們給的可是這個TNCAP是交通部的指導下的規範你們是為了行車安全也肯定這件事情沒錯可是為什麼同樣都是國家標準前面的可以上市的標準長這樣子那後面我們TNCAP給出來的這個"},{"start":312.335,"end":337.38,"text":"的撞擊測試報告裡面它的特定車款它的這個平等這麼低就變成有兩套標準那麼未來能不能要求說至少上市前你要先做過這個測試再上市才可以保障用路人安全還是說就是繼續按照現行的規範我先上市了我們再後續再來做那如果講白了這一定會造成特定車廠他們的營業有受到衝擊啦那就沒有意思了嘛所以這個問題"},{"start":339.481,"end":347.172,"text":"這個安全標準能不能在上市前就先做到還是一定要上市之後我才能做這個實行工作報告委員我是不是請局長來回答一下"},{"start":348.071,"end":374.14,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下剛剛講的一個部分的話就是TNCAP的部分它是一個市場評價比這個國家這個強制要求應該要符的標準是更高的標準那所有剛剛委員有提到就是說車輛要上市銷售之前必須要取得審驗合格證明這個部分要符合的法規基本上就是要聯合國的法規跟歐盟跟這個日本跟韓國都這個一致"},{"start":375.74,"end":390.011,"text":"那現在也就是說有一些這個做TNCAP的那個標準有一些是強制法規沒有那有一些是他要求的標準比強制法規這個標準還要高所以這個評價起來就會有一顆星兩顆星三顆星到五顆星不等的這樣子的一個這個情況"},{"start":391.152,"end":417.89,"text":"那最近有一個車型它裡面就是說評價的這個結果這個不太好的一個這個部分的話那這裡面如果說有涉及到不是強制法規要做要求而是車子本身設計可能在於品質觀念有一些瑕疵這個部分的話那就必須實施這個預警預警性的這個招勵所以現在部裡面也在做這件事情部長 局長你們剛剛講當然線型當然就是長這樣子我也清楚知道說你們"},{"start":419.298,"end":425.644,"text":"但是問題就是說今天以這個車型為例今天看到大家看到那個影片他是連椅子都會飛出去嘛"},{"start":426.73,"end":451.515,"text":"就是安全帶也沒有什麼作用嘛那未來這個事情我們在上市前有沒有辦法提高到就是說如果今天它是符合你講的法定的標準它才能出場然後我們後面再做市場上的評價那至少基本安全都要有啊但是現在至少看起來這個狀況是在第一階段它的基本安全都沒有看起來是沒有做到的才會有這個評鑑零分的狀況產生那我們今天要問的是說"},{"start":452.715,"end":480.948,"text":"這個TNCP它相關的標準能不能部分的就是至少在安全性上主動安全性上把它列入在一開始出廠的法定標準裡面這個部分我大概跟委員報告一下譬如說它這個大概涉及到這個實車碰撞項目的部分那實車碰撞的部分現行這個法規強制要求已經有了那但是在這個TNCAP的部分的話它要求是相對是比較高是相對這個更高車速更快"},{"start":482.549,"end":503.071,"text":"所以基本我剛剛才一直跟我們報告就是說就國際通用的法規在這個十幾公里要求的這個膨脹他一定要符合才能夠上市銷售那現在在TN CAP要求到56公里這個部分比較相對比較高標準的部分的話他測試出來的一個市場評價確實是不如其他的部分"},{"start":503.391,"end":528.553,"text":"但是針對這樣子的一個情況的話就是陳委員講的部分未來在這個審驗端對於車廠品質一致性管控這個部分應該是有一些可以檢討再來做加強謝謝有麻煩你們真的不要把這列入不然真的這個消費者沒保障因為這個車款都已經賣很久了我想也是車銷售量非常高那對消費者是一個很大的影響我覺得這個如果交通部能夠事前把這個標準放進去我覺得未來"},{"start":529.634,"end":549.833,"text":"有機會比較能夠保障到這個駕駛人好不好好 我們加強事前的審驗好 那接下來最後一題也是這個我快速講一下這個世襲的問題當然這個世襲問題會被揭露也是因為現在董事長本來發了公開信提到說過去可能之前的董事長 之前的主管層級或之前的顧問去領了這個相關的這個經費那我們這邊也取得相關的這個內部的會議資料 會議報告喔"},{"start":555.646,"end":584.299,"text":"金額當然這個前顧問這是之前的高層領了上千萬的這個獎金 領走了那當然目前世襲的這個說法是說他們覺得追回就好因為在相關的本來的會議裡面也提到過去在獎勵辦法在個人獎勵的部分對董事長對顧問等等他其實本來的規範是沒有的那我不知道前面發生什麼事情為什麼這個顧問或相關的這些主管能夠把這麼高額的獎金領走那現在看起來"},{"start":585.701,"end":599.147,"text":"繳回就沒事了但是呢我想四期工程喔是交通部雖然你們沒有直接持股啦但是你們基本上也算是百分之百持股因為你們轉頭再轉頭嘛都算百分之百的關股啦但是說這樣子的狀況下面"},{"start":600.339,"end":614.904,"text":"有這麼奇怪的問題發生那到底交通部立場有什麼有沒有要移送減掉還是說大家把錢繳回就不算就沒事了會有這個問題報告委員這個部分其實我們世西公司之前也經過一個很詳盡的調查"},{"start":616.445,"end":645.126,"text":"那之前的這個幹部跟這個公司的同仁有這個領的獎金的部分程序不完備的部分那所以他們公司決定說以繳回的方式來處置那這個部分也已經繳回這個部分已經繳回我知道因為我要講說所以我要問部長的意思部長的態度嗎不該領的就不要領因為這個前面領的是未經董事會同意他就把這個錢去領走也沒有相關的規定那如果這樣"},{"start":646.187,"end":669.628,"text":"今天會提出來說他如果單純就是民營公司,那可能他們公司內部董事會沒意見,那大家就沒意見那今天事先,你是最大股東,貴部是最大股東,可能也是唯一股東啦在這個情況下面,你作為最大股東,你對於這樣的狀況,你會覺得前腳就算了嗎?還是說應該要去處理,不管背信也好,這可能沒有貪汙啦,但是可能有背信的問題,因為他完全沒有相關的機制"},{"start":670.549,"end":698.184,"text":"去授權他去領這個錢那還有包含說裡面這些腐爛的報價包含大家媒體也揭露了嘛這個企業總部本來預計要買多少錢他後來因為只剩多少只剩兩千兩千多萬所以我就兩千二兩千多億我就用兩千多億去做對不起口誤本來預算這個要買的裝潢是四千萬啊買完房地產之後剩不多錢剩兩千多萬他說好那兩千多萬就夠了就是你從頭到尾預算你的實施跟你的預算是搭嘎的那這樣虛報"},{"start":699.665,"end":705.321,"text":"因為講真的 我在講的是如果他是純粹民營公司 那他們家的事情但是因為今天世新工程是"},{"start":706.581,"end":735.8,"text":"中澳交通部100%持股雖然你們沒有直接持股但是就是100%持股的狀態下這個交通部的立場是什麼向委員報告針對公司治理的部分應該要更詳盡的部分我們已經請世襲公司做檢討而他們內部的這個規範也已經做了改變那所以未來可以避免這樣的狀況發生那另外針對這個是否有法律上的問題其實我們有跟請世襲公司跟法律的專業人士還有他們自己內部的法治單位"},{"start":737.504,"end":742.401,"text":"那這個部分是目前還沒有跟我說要做這個司法上面的追溯所以"},{"start":743.308,"end":769.286,"text":"他們就算了是不是我要確定這件事情交通部也覺得沒關係目前兩關一個是世西工程本身公司裡面的法務的部分去做監管第二個他的控股公司其實是中華顧問工程師財政法院中華顧問工程師他們裡面也有做過法律上面的研析那目前就是朝向先把經費追回那建構一個更完整的公司治理的機制"},{"start":770.106,"end":778.323,"text":"好 不然部長 反正剛剛林子緹也提到了你們要請這個中央顧問同事去提出相關報告讓我們後續看報告結果怎麼樣我們再追後面的狀況啦好不好好 謝謝委員好 部長謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:49:48.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:49:48.572000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:49:48.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:49:51.334000+08:00","text":"主席，我們先請交通部陳部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T10:49:51.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:49:58.120000+08:00","text":"請陳部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T10:49:58.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:49:58.320000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:49:59.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:49:59.541000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:49:59.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:11.051000+08:00","text":"部長，一開始當然先針對剛剛的臨時提案──雙黃燈使用規範，我們來做個是非題，路邊臨停的時候，目前的法規可以打燈嗎？不行。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:11.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:11.892000+08:00","text":"對，不行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:13.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:15.175000+08:00","text":"突發情況緊急減速的時候可以打嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:19.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:21.923000+08:00","text":"緊急減速，煞車燈自然會亮起。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:24.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:26.106000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:26.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:28.008000+08:00","text":"你們說可以，我們問過，你們說可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:28.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:28.649000+08:00","text":"沒關係！","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:28.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:31.231000+08:00","text":"這就是大家認知不同的部分，沒關係！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:31.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:33.108000+08:00","text":"車輛故障的時候可以打嗎？可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:34.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:40.074000+08:00","text":"遇到大霧或大雨至前方視線不良的時候，可以打雙黃燈嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:40.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:41.335000+08:00","text":"這個是開霧燈。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:41.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:41.976000+08:00","text":"開霧燈，所以不行嘛！對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:42.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:44.799000+08:00","text":"沒有後霧燈才可以開，對不對？對。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:44.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:49.122000+08:00","text":"路邊停車倒車前用以示警後方來車，這時候可以打嗎？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:49.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:50.364000+08:00","text":"打方向燈才是正確的。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:50.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:52.185000+08:00","text":"打方向燈才可以，不能打雙黃燈嘛！對。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:53.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:54.827000+08:00","text":"禮貌回應他車讓道，可以打嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:56.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:50:57.050000+08:00","text":"應該是不行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:50:57.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:51:04.592000+08:00","text":"好，部長不愧是交通部長，基本上你的答案都是對的，就是除了剛剛緊急減速的認知不太一樣之外。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:51:05.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:51:18.554000+08:00","text":"但是我們要提到，在道交條例第四十二條只要誤打或者認知不同的裁罰標準，不依規定使用燈光者就是罰一千二百元以上三千六百元以下罰鍰。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:51:19.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:51:48.710000+08:00","text":"我今天提出來討論，其實不管哪一種情況，我們要先討論到底這個規範是要適應民情還是要加強宣導，就像剛剛部長提到的幾個問題，以突發情況緊急減速或者是我們經常在路邊停車的時候打方向燈，法規說要打方向燈，但實際上是怎麼樣，很多人當然會打雙閃燈，被檢舉就被罰錢了，本來的原意是希望能夠警示後方說他要停車或等等的，所以打警示燈。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:51:48.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:51:58.059000+08:00","text":"因為打方向燈會有什麼問題，打方向燈除非倒車入庫或是路邊停車，方向盤轉一次就成功了，不然方向燈會跳回去，又會被檢舉。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:51:58.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:52:28.501000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得這個法規應該要重新檢討怎麼樣適用，包含剛剛先翔委員提案的部分，法規怎麼改或是這個階段是優先勸導，然後去了解一下真實的使用規範，包含像第6題禮貌回應他車讓道，我們常在快速道路、高速公路上切車道的時候，看到前車跟我們感謝就打雙紅燈，我如果檢舉他，他跟我說謝謝，我可以檢舉他，一千二百元以上三千六百元以下的罰單就來了，所以這部分，交通部的立場有沒有願意做相關的檢討跟改善？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T10:52:29.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:52:40.991000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這方面的規定其實跟世界標準是一致的，燈號的使用，世界有一定的標準，所以我們符合世界一致的規範。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T10:52:40.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:52:59.279000+08:00","text":"但是委員所提的很務實，一般民眾到底理解或不理解，我相信一般民眾開車的習慣……我自己也開車，確實有一些是跟我們一般的習慣不太一樣，我覺得考駕照的時候，要大家讀到這麼細也有點困難。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T10:52:59.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:53:23.231000+08:00","text":"所以我認為規範的部分依據國際的標準，但是在執法的過程，我們希望以勸導為優先，我們所理解的，其實警方不會主動來抓這方面，但是如果有民眾檢舉的時候，我們也期待警方是不是用勸導作為優先，至少讓民眾知道這樣的做法可能不符合我們目前的規定，以後就要注意。","quality":0.991},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:53:23.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:53:33.778000+08:00","text":"因為我想是不是要回到法規本身去討論，當初立這個法或是燈號，我們在開車的時候，不管打任何左轉燈、右轉燈，警示燈的目的是什麼？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:53:33.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:53:54.194000+08:00","text":"今天車子設計警示燈，比如說，有人會在路邊臨停的時候打警示燈，或在倒車的時候打警示燈，或是禮貌的回應他車讓道，我們都很清楚他的用意，他不是為了違規，甚至他是刻意去做這件事情，結果卻是違規的，所以我覺得在宣導或法規執行上面應該要有一個平衡。是。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:53:54.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:53:55.514000+08:00","text":"要回到原意嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:53:55.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:54:00.276000+08:00","text":"他不是故意要違規，他打了警示燈並不會造成交通事故，對不對？沒錯。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:54:00.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:54:04.378000+08:00","text":"這部分交通部目前就是往勸導方向去執行？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T10:54:04.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:54:06.758000+08:00","text":"對，我們希望可以用勸導讓民眾能夠理解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:54:07.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:54:07.539000+08:00","text":"部長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:54:08.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:54:32.413000+08:00","text":"接下來，最近國人也關心汽車安全的問題，這兩天新聞都非常大，有的車子獲得TNCAP的認證有五顆星，有的車子已經上市了，但是評等是零顆星，當然他們回應說，他們的車體結構很堅實而且所有等級車款都通過國家嚴謹安全審驗，並取得安全審驗合格證。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:54:32.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:54:35.115000+08:00","text":"他講得也沒有錯，他確實有取得，所以才能上市嘛！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:54:35.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:55:03.036000+08:00","text":"可是問題來了，當初安全審驗合格證不是你們給的，TNCAP卻是交通部指導下的規範，你們是為了行車安全，也肯定這件事情沒錯，可是為什麼同樣都是國家標準，前面可以上市的標準長這樣子，後面我們TNCAP給出的撞擊測試報告，對於特定車款的評等卻這麼地低，就變成有兩套標準。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:55:03.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:55:09.317000+08:00","text":"未來我們能不能要求，至少上市前你要先做過這個測試再上市，才可以保障用路人的安全？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:55:09.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:55:13.698000+08:00","text":"還是就繼續按照現行的規範，我先上市了，後續再來做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:55:15.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:55:20.680000+08:00","text":"講白了這一定會讓特定車廠的營業額受到衝擊，這樣就沒有意思了嘛！","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:55:21.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:55:25.964000+08:00","text":"所以這個問題、這個安全標準能不能在上市前就先做到？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:55:26.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:55:28.688000+08:00","text":"還是一定要上市之後才能做這個工作？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T10:55:29.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:55:31.152000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我是不是請局長來回答一下？好。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林局長福山","start":"2026-04-01T10:55:32.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:55:44.655000+08:00","text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下，剛剛講到TNCAP的部分，它是一個市場評價，比國家強制要求應該符合的有更高的標準。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"林局長福山","start":"2026-04-01T10:55:45.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:55:58.120000+08:00","text":"所有剛剛委員提到的，車輛在上市銷售之前必須取得審驗合格證明，這個部分要符合的法規基本上就是用聯合國的法規，這跟歐盟、日本和韓國都一致。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"林局長福山","start":"2026-04-01T10:55:59.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:56:14.011000+08:00","text":"現在就是TNCAP有一些做的標準是法規沒有強制的，有一些所要求的標準比法規強制要求的標準還要高，所以這個評價起來就會有一顆星、兩顆星、三顆星到五顆星不等的情況。","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"林局長福山","start":"2026-04-01T10:56:15.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:56:37.367000+08:00","text":"最近有一個車型評價的結果有一個不太好的部分，這裡面如果有涉及到不是法規強制要做的要求，而是車子本身的設計可能在品質管理上有一些瑕疵的話，那就必須實施預警性的召回，所以現在部裡面也在做這件事情。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:56:37.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:56:41.890000+08:00","text":"部長、局長，你們剛剛講了，現行大概就是長這個樣子，我也清楚知道說你們……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T10:56:41.890000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T10:56:43.298000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:56:43.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:56:52.310000+08:00","text":"但問題是以這個車型為例，今天大家看到那個影片，它是連椅子都會飛出去的嘛，安全帶也沒有什麼作用嘛。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:56:53.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:57:14.295000+08:00","text":"未來這件事情在上市前有沒有辦法提高到……如果今天它是符合你所講的法定標準才能出廠，然後我們後面再做市場上的評價，但至少基本的安全都要有啊，可是這個狀況現在看起來是，它連在第一階段的基本安全都沒有做到，才會有這個評鑑零分的狀況產生。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:57:15.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:57:25.439000+08:00","text":"我今天要問的是TNCAP相關的標準，能不能部分主動地在安全性上把它列在一開始出廠的法定標準裡面？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林局長福山","start":"2026-04-01T10:57:28.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:57:57.741000+08:00","text":"這個部分我大概跟委員報告一下，比如說這個大概會涉及到實車碰撞項目的部分，在現行的法規上已經有強制要求了實車碰撞的部分，但是在TNCAP的部分，它的要求是相對更高的，所測車速更快，所以我剛剛才一直跟委員報告，就國際通用的法規，在四十幾公里要求的碰撞上，它一定要符合才能夠上市銷售。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"林局長福山","start":"2026-04-01T10:57:58.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:58:07.051000+08:00","text":"現在在TNCAP要求到56公里，這個部分是相對比較高的標準，它測試出來的市場評價確實是不如其他的部分。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林局長福山","start":"2026-04-01T10:58:08.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:58:18.841000+08:00","text":"針對這樣子的情況，就誠如委員講的，未來在審驗端對於車廠品質一致性管控的部分應該是有一些可以檢討再做加強之處。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:58:18.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:58:22.865000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，麻煩你們真的要把這個列入，不然消費者真的沒保障。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:58:23.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:58:36.817000+08:00","text":"這個車款都已經賣很久了，我想這個的銷售量也非常高，對於消費者來說是個很大的影響，我覺得交通部如果能夠事前把這個標準放進去，未來就有機會比較能夠保障到駕駛人，好不好？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T10:58:37.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:58:38.939000+08:00","text":"好，我們會加強事前的審驗。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:58:39.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:58:41.702000+08:00","text":"接下來是最後一題，我就快速講一下。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:58:42.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:58:53.693000+08:00","text":"有關世曦的問題，世曦的這個問題會被揭露也是因為現在董事長發了公開信，提到之前的董事長、之前的主管層級或之前的顧問領了相關的經費，我們這邊也取得了相關的內部會議資料、會議報告。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:59:00.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:59:09.390000+08:00","text":"當然這個前顧問或是說之前的這些高層領了上千萬的獎金，目前世曦的說法當然是覺得追回就好。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:59:10.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:59:26.998000+08:00","text":"因為在相關的會議紀錄裡面有提到，過去的獎勵辦法在個人獎勵的部分，對董事長、對顧問等等本來的規範其實是沒有的，我是不知道前面發生過什麼事情，為什麼這個顧問或相關的這些主管能夠把這麼高額的獎金領走？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:59:27.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:59:48.100000+08:00","text":"現在看起來繳回就沒事了，我想世曦工程雖然交通部沒有直接持股，但是你們基本上也算是百分之百持股，因為是你們轉投再轉投的嘛，都算百分之百的官股了，只是在這樣的狀況下面，有這麼奇怪的問題發生，到底交通部的立場是什麼？","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:59:48.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:59:48.541000+08:00","text":"有沒有要移送檢調？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:59:49.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:59:52.482000+08:00","text":"還是要他把錢繳回就算了、就沒事了？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T10:59:53.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T10:59:54.243000+08:00","text":"會不會有這個問題？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T10:59:54.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:00:15.296000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個部分其實世曦公司之前也經過一個很詳盡的調查，那之前的幹部跟這個公司同仁有領的獎金，程序不完備的部分，他們公司決定以繳回的方式來處置，這個部分也已經繳回。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T11:00:16.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:00:21.080000+08:00","text":"我知道，所以我要問部長的意思、部長的態度嘛！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T11:00:21.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:00:22.922000+08:00","text":"不該領的就不要領。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T11:00:22.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:00:27.965000+08:00","text":"因為前面領的是未經董事會同意，然後他就把這個錢領走，也沒有相關的規定。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T11:00:30.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:00:35.652000+08:00","text":"今天會提出來就是，它如果單純就是民營公司，可能他們公司內部董事會沒意見，那大家就沒意見……是。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T11:00:35.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:00:46.842000+08:00","text":"今天因為世曦，貴部是最大股東，可能也是唯一股東，在這個情況下，你作為最大股東，對於這樣的狀況，你會覺得錢繳了就算了嗎？","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T11:00:46.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:00:56.550000+08:00","text":"還是應該要去處理不管是背信也好，這可能沒有貪污，但是可能有背信的問題，因為完全沒有相關的機制授權他去領這個錢。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T11:00:56.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:01:22.184000+08:00","text":"還包含裡面這些浮濫的報價，媒體也揭露了，企業總部本來預算要買……裝潢是四千萬，買完房地產之後剩不多，只剩下兩千多萬，他說好，那兩千多萬就夠了，就是從頭到尾，實支跟預算是不搭軋的，這樣子虛報。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T11:01:23.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:01:38.026000+08:00","text":"我再講一次，如果它純粹是民營公司，那是他們家的事情，但因為今天世曦工程是交通部百分之百持股，雖然你們沒有直接持股，但就是百分之百持股的狀態下，這個交通部的立場是什麼？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T11:01:38.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:01:49.113000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，針對公司治理，應該要更詳盡的部分，我們已經請世曦公司做檢討，而他們內部的這個規範也已經做了改變，所以未來可以避免這樣的狀況發生。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T11:01:50.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:05.317000+08:00","text":"另外針對這個是否有法律上的問題，其實我們有請世曦公司跟法律專業人士，還有他們自己內部的法制單位有做過檢討，這個部分目前是還沒有跟我說要做司法上面的追訴。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T11:02:06.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:08.569000+08:00","text":"所以他們就算了，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T11:02:09.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:12.071000+08:00","text":"我要確定這件事情，交通部也覺得沒關係？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T11:02:12.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:33.265000+08:00","text":"目前有兩關，一個是世曦工程本身公司裡面的法務部分去做監管；第二個，它的控股公司其實是財團法人中華顧問工程司，他們裡面也有做過法律上面的研析，目前就是朝向先把經費追回，建構一個更完整的公司治理機制。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T11:02:34.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:38.715000+08:00","text":"反正剛剛臨時提案也提到了，你們要請中華顧問工程司提出相關報告。是。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T11:02:39.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:41.942000+08:00","text":"那後續我們看報告的結果是怎麼樣，我們再來追後面的狀況，好不好？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-01T11:02:42.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:42.223000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員健豪","start":"2026-04-01T11:02:42.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:42.323000+08:00","text":"好，部長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T11:02:42.823000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:45.680143+08:00","text":"謝謝黃健豪召委的發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T11:02:45.980143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:48.837286+08:00","text":"現在開始我們休息10分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T11:02:49.137286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:50.280143+08:00","text":"休息（11時2分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T11:02:50.580143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:52.294429+08:00","text":"繼續開會（11時13分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T11:02:52.594429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:54.308714+08:00","text":"現在繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T11:02:54.608714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T11:02:58.037286+08:00","text":"接下來邀請魯明哲委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}