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副秘書長這個我們在現在的那個規定裡面的話對於知悉的部分的時候他是要下去釐清事實"},{"start":400.43,"end":416.139,"text":"那你的35條有沒有有沒有範圍有沒有到我們這一些駐外單位嗎有啊所以我剛剛講像于大雷案你們就可以啊你們就可以要求外交部要去了解你不是還是上解督導單位還是說外交部現在不歸你們只歸總統"},{"start":417.56,"end":422.843,"text":"不是 外交部他自己有外交部的我知道 但是他做得不好啊他被動啊 他消極啊那這個時候怎麼辦這個就是我要跟你講的現在這個勞動部在我們的監督底下他現在提出來的機制"},{"start":434.148,"end":451.699,"text":"他是可以有更上層的單位就是說這個原單位企業他若不受理的話他可以跟公部門投訴但是你公部門我就問你外交部不受理的時候怎麼辦可以跟行政院投訴嗎還是跟總統府投訴你的機制你的更上位的那個監督機制到底在哪裡"},{"start":455.475,"end":477.001,"text":"我覺得這個是個漏洞喔副秘書長我希望你們回去之後你們要把這個洞補起來啊現在看起來就是這樣子啊你都尊重原單位我就問你原單位如果沒有受理或他受理不公那請問他還有再上一層的機制嗎有嗎可以上到哪裡不知道"},{"start":484.853,"end":507.234,"text":"這個會後我們會再去釐清一下好 我要求這個部分的洞應該要補起來不可以有這樣子的一個情況既然我們之前發生了這一些霸凌的案件我們覺得應該要做好那當時是勞動部是勞動部這邊的修法但是公務人員這邊你們也說你們要好好來修法 要來落實"},{"start":508.035,"end":531.481,"text":"那現在顯然我覺得你們現在的辦法裡面還是有漏洞我希望這一塊要補起來這個就是我講的現在我們在勞動部裡面就是他可以地方勞工局投訴然後外部第三方強制的介入但是我們現在公部門裡面沒有更上層的單位這個應該要做另外一個我要問你的是這一個小組的審議剛剛也有委員提到了我們現在"},{"start":535.262,"end":538.714,"text":"以楊蕙欣這個案為例現在已經有四個外部的委員"},{"start":539.485,"end":566.482,"text":"就是來做調查嘛 對不對那第一個是誰來督導這件事情讓他可以更完整我昨天也跟院長講了第一個我要求的是這個涉及到霸凌的當事人他要不要調理限職因為他如果這個主管他是最高主管目前還在這個職務上面他沒有暫時調理限職請問他整個辦公室他以下他所掌管的人員有人敢講真話嗎"},{"start":568.84,"end":590.631,"text":"會不會就是礙於這樣的一個壓力他都還在這個位置上誰講馬上就被發現然後對他的保護其實是不周全你們有沒有考慮過這樣的一個問題你要讓調查還原真相涉及霸凌的當事人主管是不是需要暫時請假或調離限制讓這個調查可以更深入 複民長你的看法呢"},{"start":591.292,"end":610.713,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們現在的外部委員正在調查嘛是那協助我們把事實釐清那我們會依照調查的結果還有防護委員會的審議決議的話來處理我知道我要告訴你的是調查結果能不能還原真相"},{"start":611.354,"end":635.113,"text":"在於他能不能接觸到這一些跟事件相關的人而這一些事件相關的人他會不會有來自上級的壓力他可不可以有一個好的保護然後他敢把事實真相完全說出來大家都還記得當時勞動部的霸凌案的時候第一次的報告是霸凌案不成立的有沒有調查 有有沒有還原事實 沒有"},{"start":636.094,"end":656.332,"text":"所以這個就是關鍵後來我記得洪澄漢部長還說他設了一個信箱所有的人就是可以指到他那邊就是完全不會洩露出去那我不知道公務部門你們這邊行政院的做法是什麼可不可以真的保護到吹哨者要不然有調查但是會變成沒真相"},{"start":656.952,"end":679.748,"text":"因為你調查到的不是最核心最敢講真話或是礙於事實壓力你的這個調查報告可能就只是流於形式沒有還原真相那我具體建議一個是剛剛講的涉及霸凌的主管你要讓他暫時調離限制這是一個建議第二個是所有的包括像楊蕙心個案她的友人這個爆料者"},{"start":680.248,"end":700.749,"text":"你怎麼樣想方設法讓他們願意講出最真實的真相這些調查委員有沒有接觸到他們還有包括現在被指涉的楊真理他之前他服務過的包括國貿局跟他互動的單位包括外交部擴大調查範圍這是必要的這個也是去稀釋不要讓當事人你只調查少數人這少數人的壓力就很大"},{"start":703.371,"end":710.798,"text":"你調查多一點人的時候就是他可以免除那個直接被指涉的壓力這個是在調查過程當中要蠻細膩的我不知道你們有沒有考慮這些如果這些你們沒有很仔細的一個去討論跟執行的話將來的調查報告恐怕會不符合就是大家的期待家屬可能也覺得沒有還原真相這個你們可以做到嗎"},{"start":727.234,"end":745.585,"text":"跟委員報告 剛剛委員講的這些點的話我們回去的話 都會提供給我們的調查小組委員讓他做審議的參考現在這整個是誰在主導 誰在因為還有更上位的小組審議 誰是主持人是副秘書長嗎 還是誰我們審議委員會的話 有12個委員外部委員 主席是秘書長"},{"start":755.191,"end":777.319,"text":"是秘書長擔任主席但是我們之前會前的時候也有在開會因為他自己是北美協調委員會的小組委員他會自請迴避所以你是主席自請迴避完以後我們會委員互推代理主席"},{"start":777.839,"end":798.324,"text":"好 這個主席也很重要就是一定要很客觀的來審理所有的事實家屬需要真相 社會也需要真相那你們預計多久可以完成我昨天跟院長說希望一個月之內可以完成調查你們可以加快嗎我們規定是兩個月院長昨天也跟委員承諾我們會盡速的來完成但是我們不會刻意說拜託委員趕在一個月之內完成"},{"start":803.345,"end":815.496,"text":"我知道但是要加速好不好而且那個主要要接觸到真的知道真相的而且讓他願意講出事實這個才是關鍵好不好還原事實的真相最重要對好謝謝那你先請回我請那個勞動部我們洪部長"},{"start":818.999,"end":836.169,"text":"就是公安的問題 我很快的要幫我們這些從事演藝工作的臨演來請命因為我們看到現在這些臨演可能是我們現在安全網的破洞這個有調查 這個也是來自你們自己的調查52%從業者因公負傷 只有0.7%申請災保的給付"},{"start":844.133,"end":865.912,"text":"那最近爆發的這個案件呢他具組從來沒有幫他保勞保或災保所以這樣一個情況等於是這是舊的數據最舊的 那最新的有改善嗎這是災保法之前的數據那你們現在更新的數據你告訴本席啦對 但是這是確定這是災保法之前的那最新的你說"},{"start":867.399,"end":879.107,"text":"最近我們可能要再找一下可是目前的狀況因為災保法通過以後後來通過請工會協助然後等等等他的機制大概就不是這個數據了那為什麼這個臨演還是沒有災報"},{"start":885.498,"end":897.868,"text":"當然這個個案的狀況是可以檢討可是我說數據本身這不是現況的數據好啊 那你就告訴本席最新的數據對 那我覺得我們再來看一下有沒有最新的數據的話我再提供這樣好不好好 我要指出來是這邊還是有人沒有受到保障他的職業安全沒有受到保護特別是過去我們可能真的比較忽略臨時演員這一塊那因為有爆發這樣的一個事件我希望"},{"start":911.9,"end":931.555,"text":"你們可以好好的去改善這樣的一個現象那我這邊有三個建議我覺得這一些影視的這個臨時的演員勞工也不應該被拋棄他們還是應該要被好好照顧那第一個你們可不可以做到要求這一些臨演要百分之百投保這個職業災害保險"},{"start":933.7,"end":960.989,"text":"其實雖然他是臨演但是他還是可以請領的他還是可以請領的沒有投保的情況底下也可以請領跟委員報告只要他是受雇勞工是具有雇傭關係的他到職他就他是承攬他不是雇傭臨演現在被發現他只有承攬他不是雇傭這個個案是雇傭關係"},{"start":962.487,"end":983.199,"text":"這個是你們後來查到是雇傭是不是所以他是可以的根本說明這個案子發生之後我自己親自也主動找李遠部長那我們也針對目前對於這個影視圈的這個因為我們有指引嘛但我們也看到指引裡面其實確實有些不足沒有落實所以指引裡面有不足之處"},{"start":984.5,"end":1010.605,"text":"那也有一些部分在部分的比方說拍電視劇的部分特別不容易做好那我具體問你啦職業這個安全衛生自動檢查表要不要事先審查你們開會討論完之後需不需要他們現在是不用送的要不要要不要送審讓主管機關審核覺得你這個有做到因為有很多是爆破啊高空跳啊就是都是一些設計比較危險的那你們現在其實是沒有這個部分應該是會送影視局啦對"},{"start":1013.294,"end":1035.754,"text":"要嘛這是送隱私局會有一個自主檢查表對但是他們的那個對於職安的意識我們現在比較希望的方向是針對一些高風險的拍攝行為對那這些高風險的拍攝行為我們現在正在跟隱私局討論是不是應該想要設計一個這個在前端事前通報的機制所以"},{"start":1036.314,"end":1047.06,"text":"不只是這個安全衛生的部分尤其特別針對高風險的部分我們應該提前先掌握那這部分正在跟影視局還有跟業界那目前正在針對這個機制的討論正在討論中所以還沒有討論出來現在正在討論 對"},{"start":1051.482,"end":1076.97,"text":"好 這個部分我要求你們要趕快討論出來 這個的確是過去大家都會忽略大家看戲看得很過癮 但是從來沒有好好去思考這些臨演 他在承受這些高風險的時候我們國家的制度 政府的制度有沒有事先有一個比較強制性的要求跟檢核去確保他在那個過程當中的安全其實這個部分真的是被忽略了其實我們的確看到這裡面政府會有一定的責任 所以我們也跟"},{"start":1078.03,"end":1104.816,"text":"文化部在討論包括我們相對應的這些記錄其實都變成是應該變成文化部在補助的時候判斷的依據你們多久這個新的機制可以演繹出來你們的目標跟委員報告其實目前在配合子安法裡面的附屬法規也有把這個部分放進來所以我們應該是會在六月底把這個法案做法所以會做修法會做母法的修正然後再做配合"},{"start":1105.416,"end":1131.184,"text":"這是隨著去年底職安法修法以後我們也希望把這一塊考慮進來放到附屬法規裡面所以應該我今天剛有說我們希望7月1號其實職安法的部分可以就附屬法規經過預告以後可以上路啦所以7月1號可以上路對我們希望是7月1號好我們希望在這一塊就是要補足就是我們去照顧到這些臨演他們的工作職業的安全好謝謝謝謝王雲美委的發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}