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11:56:59","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查\n(一)\t委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t委員張雅琳等17人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t委員馬文君等16人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t委員林倩綺等22人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t委員柯志恩等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t委員萬美玲等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員葉元之等18人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等19人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「教師法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)\t台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「教師法第二十五條及第五十三條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(十一)案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第二(十二)至(十四)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":0.03096875,"end":0.90846875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":6.105968750000001,"end":9.26159375,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":9.430343750000002,"end":11.10096875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":25.25909375,"end":26.47409375,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":26.980343750000003,"end":27.31784375,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":27.53721875,"end":28.65096875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":29.17409375,"end":30.152843750000002,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":33.54471875,"end":34.034093750000004,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":35.01284375,"end":37.05471875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":37.712843750000005,"end":102.42846875000001,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":103.01909375000001,"end":135.82409375,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":129.69846875000002,"end":131.80784375000002,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":134.91284375,"end":137.52846875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":137.61284375,"end":138.54096875000002,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"楊司長玉惠","start":138.54096875000002,"end":138.60846875000001,"speaker_score":0.866},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":138.87846875,"end":164.25846875000002,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"楊司長玉惠","start":144.14346875,"end":144.46409375000002,"speaker_score":0.866},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"楊司長玉惠","start":148.71659375000002,"end":149.03721875000002,"speaker_score":0.866},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":164.62971875000002,"end":167.31284375,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":169.50659375,"end":169.96221875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"楊司長玉惠","start":169.96221875,"end":194.02596875,"speaker_score":0.866},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":194.02596875,"end":219.06846875000002,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":219.97971875000002,"end":247.70534375000003,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":247.97534375,"end":275.02596875,"speaker_score":0.88},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":272.35971875,"end":273.01784375,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":275.51534375,"end":288.67784375,"speaker_score":0.88},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":289.11659375,"end":306.61596875000004,"speaker_score":0.88},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":304.10159375,"end":305.14784375,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":305.45159375000003,"end":333.78471875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":333.78471875,"end":333.95346875,"speaker_score":0.88},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":333.95346875,"end":334.02096875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":334.02096875,"end":334.45971875000004,"speaker_score":0.88},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":334.45971875000004,"end":335.20221875000004,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":334.54409375,"end":334.83096875,"speaker_score":0.88},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":335.20221875000004,"end":335.35409375,"speaker_score":0.88},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":335.35409375,"end":336.38346875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start":335.42159375,"end":342.32346875,"speaker_score":0.88},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"彭署長富源","start"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行政程序目前是已經行文要學校針對外界的什麼時候發文 部長 什麼時候發的文"},{"start":139.059,"end":167.151,"text":"大声一点谢谢跟委员报告哦那个报载之后的第二天我们就发文了那你们让他们多久时间回应你们我们就一周内一周那他们回复了吗还没还没好那我听说现在有地方上有声音传出我不确定教育部你们接下来态度会是什么据说台中科技大学的人可能会跟你们说可能然后会说查无事实那你们怎么办假设你们收到这样的回复你们该怎么办"},{"start":169.534,"end":193.406,"text":"那個部長已經指示了我們會主專案小組依據學校所報的他們自己提供的一些資料佐證資料給我們那我們就會實際的主條的根據報導還有你們回覆的這一些我們會去做一些的查核那還有論文的部分國科會也是在做查核"},{"start":193.826,"end":218.817,"text":"所以教育部会跟国客会一起开会吗还是分头并进我们会分头做因为国客会只负责论文好没有问题我觉得这个态度非常的坚定而且非常的清楚有就有没有就没有有犯法就有犯法没有犯法就没有犯法我们从来没有阻止两岸学术交流但是该申报就要申报该遵守法规就要遵守法规我想态度非常的清楚以上谢谢好接下来第二个"},{"start":220.474,"end":247.484,"text":"学生辅导法在修法之后有非常多的执法要修订那我现在回到教文我继续追踪相关进度第一个是相关的要点那我们办公室在召开会议之后我们知道实施要点往下呢会有这个教职员原而编制准则的问题还有专业辅导人设置的办法那这边我想要直接请国教署署长回答署长我想要确认一下原而编制准则跟辅导人设置办法你们目前执法修法进度跟相关公告进度的规划"},{"start":248.004,"end":270.684,"text":"好 謝謝首先在要點的部分會配合原則準則以及下面的第三點在行政院4月9號會審議審議的結果我們會作為補助的依據這是第一點那這個我們預期行政院那一個是我們會尊重行政院審議的結果應該是4月份會審議完所以第一項應該5月份以前會公布"},{"start":271.044,"end":286.223,"text":"好 第一項5月份以前第二項因為它會涉及到最近委員們提到了行政專職化的討論原來我們預定前一個版本在3月31號可以公布但是行政專職化因為部長很關心還是希望我們全面蒐集意見檢討這個我們會在5到6月間公布"},{"start":289.327,"end":298.733,"text":"第二項它是很大規模的那我們會在那個時間公布不希望在可能要更久本來要7月8月我們覺得應該要5月6月讓學校就可以禁用在新學年度前所以我們會在5月6月5月底會完成我們第三項剛才已經報告了書長你完全都知道我要問什麼"},{"start":308.239,"end":331.951,"text":"第一項我沒有問題然後第三項專府人的辦法跟補助辦法4月9號會公佈這個我也沒有問題確實關鍵是他會連動到第二項你剛說這個關於人員員額編制準則他會牽扯到行政人員專職這件事情我認為確實如同剛謝委員所說的很多老師在問可不可以減輕他們行政但是你現在跟我說五六月所以你們決定這個部分需要送交行政院嗎"},{"start":332.771,"end":347.047,"text":"第二項不用送交行政院所以布裡面自己決定就可以了現在主要是在蒐集意見譬如說我們有五條的主要內涵包含說我們要不要讓小學有設副組長我們要不要讓"},{"start":348.309,"end":366.686,"text":"這個關係到緣而編制我們要不要讓變動的學校組織因為少了一個班結果他設組呢結果他大量減組這些能不能夠跟地方政府溝通讓他變動不要這麼大因為他的所有行政事務還是在類似這些有五個項目會後我們給委員那另外專職化也考慮到"},{"start":370.45,"end":396.053,"text":"不要一定要配置正式公務員有沒有可能因為不是設組長他是設人力的專職化能不能夠用契約禁用等等這些都因為涉及到地方政府整體運用人力那我們也覺得是一個新時代比較先進的做法但這五項的精神可能要跟地方政府或有關單位包含人力單位做比較完整的溝通好"},{"start":396.613,"end":423.764,"text":"那相關的進度會繼續跟委員匯報好 謝謝署長這麼清楚的說明我想我們都知道正義的點在哪裡尤其是才化把新版實施之後其實非常多的錢到的地方去我先預告我認為如果你們在這件事情上沒有把態度說清楚到底這些新增的員額編制裡面包含你剛剛說副組長也好還是相關契約的範本也好到底用什麼樣的方法聘請這些行政專職進來我希望教育部的態度要清楚"},{"start":424.204,"end":450.498,"text":"到底錢是地方政府出的還是你們出的因為我們知道國教系統有非常多隸屬地方政府我不希望在選舉這一年到時候很多地方政府因為自己不願意編列相關的預算不願意有所承擔要甩鍋丟包回來教育部就如同之前三張一Q一樣所以我先提醒這件事情也期待國教署跟我們辦公室比較明確剛剛署長您所說的五項回覆以上謝謝好接下來那署長暫時"},{"start":452.799,"end":476.766,"text":"再停一下這邊還是跟你有關再來就關於偏鄉師資的部分我們要謝謝部長之前到TFT參加了一個所謂進論室也就是所謂的偏遠地區學校學士後學分班甚至各式各樣課程規劃的進度那當時我們在講說偏遠地區學校的學士後學分班開班很少報名人數也相對少"},{"start":477.366,"end":496.895,"text":"可是感謝教育部在去年擴大辦理之後呢目前我們看到開班人數都是過去的二到三倍確實看見實務上的需求也謝謝教育部願意開班那我想問關於今年的部分我們什麼進度的規劃跟過去不一樣的做法或是更積極的回應地方老師的需求這個可不可以請部長來說明一下"},{"start":497.935,"end":521.225,"text":"我想我們謝謝委員關心偏鄉的一個教育品質包括師資的來源我們確實在這個偏鄉地區裡邊我們不僅是開學生學問班我們現在還開專班然後這一個用線上的一個甚至這個寒暑假因為我們非常清楚偏鄉的這些老師代理代課老師他們沒有辦法在一般的一個上課日裡邊"},{"start":522.426,"end":543.047,"text":"夜間來上課所以我們大概有更多的除了有專班像原住民地區我們開了原住民的一個工會專班像有一些STEM我們也從請師大開這一個公教的這一些STEM的這些專班然後對偏鄉的我們除了有學士或專班以外我們還有"},{"start":544.248,"end":567.175,"text":"來自於偏鄉的這個特別對金門馬祖澎湖我們也開專班也用線上的來學習理論課我們基本上鼓勵這個失陪單位盡量用線上的一個課然後實務操作的就利用寒暑假讓這些真正對台灣教育人才培育有熱情的這些年輕老師能夠圓他們的夢也能夠一起來守護台灣的教育"},{"start":567.435,"end":586.313,"text":"好 谢谢部长说明的非常清楚确实在去年小教报考人数就变多了那目前我知道可是因为宗教的报考人数仍然寥寥可数我知道教育部今年有放宽说只要四个学期就可以报名可是因为小教现在还是要六个学期我当然知道民间团体有他们的倡议但我想我就简单的说"},{"start":586.773,"end":615.103,"text":"请教育部带回去演绎有没有机会小教从六学期一样改成四学期当然我知道你们认为现在小教已经人满为患也许不需要但我想你们还是可以回去考虑一下第二个要问的是部长关于之前部长也非常喜欢非常在意的是教学实作导向的师资培育试办计划我知道你们有计划在推进跟进行我也想要确定今年的进度大方向是不是会后可以给我们一个报告因为时间有限我就不让部长在这里多说可以吗"},{"start":615.643,"end":635.694,"text":"好 但是我希望相關的同仁要協助部長積極推進這件事情因為部長也非常在意嘛對 對 對我想這個是非常有價值的我們也看到國際的經驗所以我想它會變成我們另外的一個實施培育的重點也許也比較適合現在現場的食物困境很多如果老師們邊做邊學"},{"start":637.855,"end":649.501,"text":"這些年輕畢業的學生他們充滿對教育的熱情數量非常大我們希望他們能夠投入接下來謝謝部長接下來問這個關於9任獎金的部分因為已經開始發放了也謝謝署長之前國教署署長這邊願意放寬認定獎金請領資"},{"start":657.885,"end":672.285,"text":"可是呢當我們在細部盤點之後發現9任獎金還是有一些問題那我認為應該沒有辦法在今天質詢台上給我回覆可是我還是要把問題提出來拜託部長甚至請關心的委員一起來關心來偏鄉教育獎金現在發現幾個困境來第一個"},{"start":674.187,"end":700.896,"text":"任職的同為偏鄉可是他跑到不同學校去了可能沒有辦法請領第二個任職的同為偏鄉可是跑到不同縣市去了也沒有辦法請領第三個現在的狀況是這樣喔署長你聽聽看公立學校的附設幼兒園可以支領可是偏鄉的公立幼兒園沒有辦法支領第四個可能是我們無力華委員也會關心的目前有非常多足語的老師還有"},{"start":701.516,"end":723.619,"text":"新著名语言的支援老师他可能长期在一个偏乡支援这些母语的教学但是他可能是因为待课的性质或是原本不在偏乡条例里面所以他完全没有办法支领这个偏乡九任奖金我们想要在这个第一线失事匮乏的当下跟署长跟部长反映我们有没有机会"},{"start":724.119,"end":752.438,"text":"召開相關會議去把這些樣態都盤點完然後有沒有機會在預算可支應的情況下更加的開放讓這些9任的偏鄉老師都可以實質的受到這些獎金的鼓勵來 署長謝謝委員關心我想我們目前委員所關心的幾個樣態我們基本上都已經已經改變了也就是說沒有沒有 部長我剛剛講的都沒有的我剛剛講的就是沒有我才講出來"},{"start":754.1,"end":773.093,"text":"真的部長剛剛委員報告剛剛部長的意思是說在部長的理念跟3月5號的文都可以處理但是有一些認定因為在細節的操作面是不是容我把剛才講的公立幼兒園不是附幼以及剛剛足以老師他的身份認定這會涉及到地方政府可能在認定上他的權限他會認為他有到那麼大嗎這個由我們來跟他開會開完幾個個案之後我們把它變成問題會編就可以全國通用你講到關鍵那問題會編什麼時候要開始修訂"},{"start":783.084,"end":802.196,"text":"問題會變現在是逐期可以公佈我們每半個月會公佈一次因為最近這個新制度部長很關心希望能夠盡量照顧多一點的我們的夥伴所以3月5號那個文已經非常的放寬並且授權但是認定上怕地方政府還怕有治案所以我們會定期召開每15天會公佈一個新版的QA"},{"start":802.896,"end":831.141,"text":"同時也請副本給舊愛文化委員會所有委員包含辦公室我認為偏鄉老師這些部分非常多委員會關心為什麼要這樣講我們當時立這個9月偏鄉獎金我們到底在意的是穩定師資指的到底是指整體的偏鄉師資還是個別學校當時的版本比較看起來是照顧個別學校但我認為在時過境遷這麼多年之後其實所有整體偏鄉的師資穩定這件事情變得非常非常重要謝謝部長跟署長好最後一個題目"},{"start":832.581,"end":856.709,"text":"今年是實驗教育修法三法上路已經十年了那有越來越多的學生走出所謂的主流體制但我認為所有進到所謂實驗教育三法不管是個人自學、機構自學還是團體自學有非常多的困境都已經在十年後開始浮現了我等署長講完我怕部長沒有聽到我講的"},{"start":857.947,"end":873.594,"text":"好很多困境浮現包含來第一個很多縣市政府他們本來有很多空出來的教室跟場地應該優先提供給這些自學機構申請但是很多地方政府置之不理他們不友善的不接受這些申請非常可惜再來"},{"start":874.874,"end":899.145,"text":"很多地方政府面對不同的機構之間有大小眼我們也不知道為什麼例如說作為公辦公營或是公辦民營完全態度不同接下來就是我們在特教法跟學復法修法完之後有非常多自學機構裡面的老師跟家長遇到孩子沒有特教的需求跟輔導的需求完全沒有辦法在這個體制裡面受到照顧我認為10年前很多人認為走進實驗教育的小孩叫做體制外錯"},{"start":900.305,"end":914.68,"text":"我希望從現在開始大家重新去想一個念頭就是實驗教育三法所照顧的都是我們的孩子這些孩子因為有法他們都叫體制內所以認為既然是體制內在十年後的今天我們應該要開啟修法的座談會跟討論"},{"start":916.281,"end":936.292,"text":"這個部分我要先提醒部長我們來看一下實驗教育人數逆勢成長在學生總數5年少了27萬的同時有越來越多人走出校園走到實驗教育三法所照顧的機構裡面這件事情我認為非同小可尤其輔導資源跟特教資源都照顧不了這些小孩"},{"start":936.852,"end":947.418,"text":"我認為這是我們要檢討的部分我知道部長今天應該沒有辦法回答那我就簡單說到這邊我希望後續教育部可以開啟修法的討論我們辦公室也會實質的推進想聽一下部長的態度"},{"start":948.783,"end":970.342,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心實驗教育三法確實它是一個民主的象徵是沒錯就說我們過去就單一的一個思維我們民主本來就是多元所以我們因應這一個所謂的個別差異能夠因材施教我想實驗三法它某種程度上補助等於說在輔助這一個"},{"start":972.701,"end":987.82,"text":"應該是說他照顧了不同學習樣態的家庭跟孩子的需求能夠兼顧到個人需求對 而且這個個人需求我認為不再那麼個人囉你看這個數字就知道其實非常非常的明顯了接下來這一題我覺得很難但是我要告訴部長"},{"start":988.28,"end":1017.344,"text":"现在教育部面对的困境是这个就是台语沉浸幼儿园的问题我们来看一下我们发现在教育部的很多作为上其实非常的消极那我们办公室一直在想我们不是只有提出问题我们也很试着很想跟教育部一起努力提出解方那我们就找了课委会来讨论而且请教了现场的专家学者来下一张我们办公室就开了这个座谈会我们邀请了课委会来告诉我们现在课委会他们的做法是什么呢来课委会的做法我们来看下一张"},{"start":1018.994,"end":1034.846,"text":"關於教保員的部分呢 在幼兒園的部分 課委會他們就要求教保員的語言門檻必須要在客語中高級以上能力 但是在台語幼兒園完全沒有那在教保員的培訓機制呢 課委會有一套機制非常的完整 可是我們看到台語的部分完全沒有 只有演習"},{"start":1035.746,"end":1052.752,"text":"再來呢語言陪伴的制度呢台語的部分是顧問制而且不可以入班可是客委會他從中央到地方都有專業輔導團甚至有客語陪伴員還有教師互助社群再來資訊獲取的管道呢目前台語幼兒園的老師跟教保員告訴我們分散他們要自己去找"},{"start":1053.152,"end":1080.194,"text":"可是我们看到课委会非常认真做专属网站跟一站式的资源其实不是只有教育部现在面临这个困境我们问了原民会跟课委会跟教育部之间你们在协助成立这些所谓的国家语言的学校机制上其实从来没有一个平台去讨论这个事情那如果整体的环境跟有越来越多的家长有意识不论他是希望他的小孩进入所谓课委会这课语的幼儿园还是台语幼儿园甚至我们未来"},{"start":1080.994,"end":1101.385,"text":"在部落裡頭會有非常多原住民語言的幼兒園這些事情如果我們的教育部跟課委會跟園民會沒有一個好的經驗交流甚至成果分享我認為在教育部這邊會依然可能三五年後看到都會是同一個狀況那我們辦公室也做了研究做了多座談所以我想要快速給教育部幾個建議我們辦公室也會持續的追蹤"},{"start":1102.185,"end":1130.639,"text":"第一個我們希望你們積極跟課委會已經有做出成效的原民會還有文化部就國家語言的部分進行經驗分享跟交流第二個教育部如果沒有中央輔導團以學術研究跟論述作為基底協助開發課程模組教具教材輔導資源我認為現場老師困境很大還有教育部如何跟地方政府專家學者研議成立地方輔導團還有陪伴員再來台語教保資訊平台相關計畫的一站式網站現在依然是沒有的講了這麼多"},{"start":1132.438,"end":1147.166,"text":"千頭萬緒我只是要告訴部長我們不是只是來提出問題我們也請教了課委會謝謝課委會還有那個屏東大學的老師給我們非常多好的建議我這邊把這些建議交給部長我想要請教一部積極去研議三個月內給我們規劃報告可以嗎"},{"start":1149.428,"end":1154.47,"text":"這個資料我們可以再送交教育部張腾業提相關報告OK的可是我也不用這個機會跟委員報告我們從去年的9月開始已經透過全國這個22個教育局處所長的一個會議裡邊已經有宣示從幼兒園裡邊從語言上的一個"},{"start":1167.515,"end":1184.755,"text":"等於說這個社區語言的一個共通性開始這一個不管是台語或者客語或者原住民語就幼兒園裡面它變成一個老師一個很重要的一個跟幼兒的教學裡面很重要的一個語言的一個界面那我們也"},{"start":1185.576,"end":1201.815,"text":"這一個請這一個國教署這個不定期的到各地方學校這個幼兒園去訪視希望這一個本土園 國家園的一個推動能夠從幼兒園就開始 前面來推我知道時間有限 再給我三四秒部長你剛剛講的我完全認同你在局處會議上"},{"start":1202.816,"end":1220.304,"text":"用宣誓的方法可是一旦所有老師要動起來教保員要動起來他就需要我剛講的這些事情他需要教材他需要資源他需要網站他需要陪伴他需要相關的輔導機制協助他去落實部長的宣誓跟交代所以部長這邊該做的事情我們一起努力"},{"start":1220.404,"end":1241.05,"text":"是的我想這個輔導團裡面包含許多教材的開發我們當然都一直持續在做地方現在也有一定程度的做得非常非常不錯像去年全國舉辦的這個本土語言本土的教材的一個開發我也到現場去看到各縣市其實在這個部分他們還真的是都"},{"start":1241.85,"end":1254.021,"text":"做的有許多的具體的一個成果我想會後我們除了委員的建議我們來深化以外有一些東西我想我也跟我們會後也來跟委員做一個更詳細的報告好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳培雲委員請部長回座"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:36:05.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:36:05.914000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:36:06.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:36:07.815000+08:00","text":"部長是不是喝個水、休息一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:36:09.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:36:24.747000+08:00","text":"一樣有請部長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T11:36:24.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:36:24.907000+08:00","text":"請鄭部長備詢。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:36:32.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:36:32.813000+08:00","text":"委員好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:36:34.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:36:34.514000+08:00","text":"部長好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:36:34.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:36:44.222000+08:00","text":"我們來看第一個新聞，我們感到很納悶，我們看到相關的新聞報導說：「國立臺中科技大學」，為什麼要強調「國立」呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:36:44.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:36:59.157000+08:00","text":"因為這是你們教育部的主管業務，你們是它的主管，我想要問一下相關的報導，我們後來有詢問教育部，說這個校長到中國去申請補助這件事情，有沒有報請教育部同意？","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:36:59.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:37:09.107000+08:00","text":"教育部給我們辦公室的回函說得非常模糊，你們只告訴我相關的法規，但是你們沒有告訴我臺中科大目前的說法是什麼。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:37:09.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:37:22.420000+08:00","text":"第二個，他當時參選的時候，必須要繳交一些書面資料，就是他到底有沒有到中國大陸地區去從事交流，或是他有沒有到中國大陸地區去做一些講座。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:37:23.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:37:24.341000+08:00","text":"他哪一些事項勾有？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:37:24.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:37:25.302000+08:00","text":"哪一些事項勾沒有？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:37:25.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:37:32.209000+08:00","text":"我相信這些你們手上都有資料，但是我看到你們回復給我的資料，我覺得非常荒謬，有沒有都說不清楚。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:37:32.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:37:36.734000+08:00","text":"其實相關的法規都規定得很清楚，到底這間學校現況如何？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:37:37.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:37:40.898000+08:00","text":"教育部接下來要如何問責跟確認相關的事情是否屬實？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:37:42.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:37:59.622000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為臺中科大陳校長這件案例經過媒體的揭露，教育部技職司已經行文，要求學校要對外界的指控說明清楚，等於是要回復教育部。","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:01.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:08.230000+08:00","text":"我們會根據它的回復，再到現場去做實地的調查與瞭解。","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:09.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:09.931000+08:00","text":"我目前……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:10.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:13.853000+08:00","text":"這是行政程序，目前已經行文要求學校要針對外界的指控說明清楚。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:14.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:14.173000+08:00","text":"什麼時候發文？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:14.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:14.614000+08:00","text":"部長，你們什麼時候發的文？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:18.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:18.339000+08:00","text":"大聲一點，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"楊司長玉惠","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:19.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:24.002000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，報載的第二天我們就發文了。","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:24.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:26.042000+08:00","text":"你們給他們多久的時間回應你們？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"楊司長玉惠","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:26.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:26.863000+08:00","text":"一週內。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:27.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:28.724000+08:00","text":"一週，那他們回復了嗎？還沒。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:30.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:34.966000+08:00","text":"好，我聽說，現在地方上有聲音傳出，我不確定接下來你們教育部的態度是什麼。","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:36.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:40.769000+08:00","text":"據說，臺中科技大學的人可能會跟你們說，可能啦！","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:42.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:43.990000+08:00","text":"他們會說查無事實，那你們要怎麼辦？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:44.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:38:45.891000+08:00","text":"假設你們收到這樣的回復，你們該怎麼辦？","quality":0.471},{"speaker":"楊司長玉惠","start":"2026-04-01T11:38:48.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:39:07.704000+08:00","text":"部長已經指示了，我們會組專案小組，依據學校所報的，就是他們自己所提供的一些資料、佐證的資料，我們就會實際的、逐條的根據報導和他們所回復的這些去做一些查核。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"楊司長玉惠","start":"2026-04-01T11:39:08.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:39:12.386000+08:00","text":"還有論文的部分，國科會也是在做查核。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:39:12.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:39:14.227000+08:00","text":"所以教育部會和國科會一起開會嗎？","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:39:15.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:39:15.227000+08:00","text":"還是分頭並進？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"楊司長玉惠","start":"2026-04-01T11:39:15.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:39:18.528000+08:00","text":"我們會分頭做，因為國科會只負責論文。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:39:18.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:39:35.556000+08:00","text":"好，沒有問題，我覺得這個態度非常的堅定，而且也非常的清楚，有就有，沒有就沒有；有犯法就有犯法，沒有犯法就沒有犯法，我們從來都沒有阻止兩岸學術交流，但是該申報就要申報，該遵守法規就要遵守法規，我想這個態度非常的清楚。","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:39:35.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:39:36.036000+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:39:37.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:39:56.700000+08:00","text":"好，接下來第二個，學生輔導法在修法之後有非常多的子法要修訂，我現在回到教文，我繼續追蹤相關的進度，第一個是相關的要點，我的辦公室在召開會議之後，我們知道有些實施要點往下會有教職員員額編制準則的問題，還有專業輔導人員設置辦法。","quality":0.544},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:39:57.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:40:08.145000+08:00","text":"這邊我想要直接請國教署署長回答，署長，我想要確認一下員額編制準則跟輔導人員設置辦法，目前這個子法的修法進度跟相關公告進度的規劃。謝謝。","quality":0.565},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T11:40:08.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:40:29.664000+08:00","text":"首先，要點的部分，我們會配合員額準則以及下面第三點，行政院4月9日會審議，審議的結果我們會作為補助的依據，這是第一點，這個我們尊重行政院的審議結果，這個應該4月份就會審議完成，所以第一項應該5月份以前會公布。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:40:30.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:40:31.145000+08:00","text":"好，第一項5月份以前。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T11:40:31.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:40:56.653000+08:00","text":"第二項因為涉及到最近委員們提到的行政專職化的討論，原來我們是預定前一個版本會在3月31日公布，但是因為部長很關心行政專職化，希望我們能夠全面蒐集意見後來檢討，所以這個我們會在5到6月間公布，第二項是很大規模的，我們會在那個時間公布，這本來要更久，本來是7月、8月，但是我們覺得應該要在5月、6月，這樣才可以讓學校在新的學年度前晉用，所以我們會在5月、6月，5月底會完成。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T11:40:56.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:40:57.473000+08:00","text":"第三項剛才我們已經報告了，以上補充，謝謝。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:40:57.473000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T11:40:58.473000+08:00","text":"太好了！署長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:40:57.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:41:07.960000+08:00","text":"署長，你完全知道我要問什麼，第一項我沒有問題。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:41:07.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:41:26.388000+08:00","text":"然後第三項的專輔人員辦法跟輔助辦法4月9日會公布，這個我也沒有問題，確實的關鍵是它會連動到第二項，你剛才說這個人員編制準則會牽涉到行政人員專職這件事情，我認為確實如同剛才謝委員所說的，這有很多老師在問，可不可以減輕他們的行政負擔？","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:41:26.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:41:30.951000+08:00","text":"但是你現在跟我說5、6月，所以你們決定這個部分要送交行政院嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T11:41:31.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:41:33.393000+08:00","text":"第二項不用送交行政院。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:41:33.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:41:35.155000+08:00","text":"所以部裡面自己決定就可以了？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"彭署長富源：現在主要是在蒐集意見，譬如說","start":"2026-04-01T11:41:37.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:41:39.780000+08:00","text":"我們有5條的主要內涵。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:41:39.780000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T11:41:40.780000+08:00","text":"好，請說。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T11:41:40.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:41:45.587000+08:00","text":"包含我們要不要讓小學設副組長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:41:47.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:41:48.069000+08:00","text":"好，這個關係到員額編制。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T11:41:48.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:42:01.262000+08:00","text":"對，我們要不要讓變動的學校組織因為少了一個班，結果它設的組要大量減組，這些能不能夠跟地方政府溝通，讓它的變動不要這麼大？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T11:42:01.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:42:05.226000+08:00","text":"因為它所有的行政事務還是在，類似這些的有5個項目，會後我們會提供給委員。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:42:05.226000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T11:42:06.226000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T11:42:05.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:42:12.833000+08:00","text":"另外，專職化也要考慮到不要一定要配置正式的公務員，這有沒有可能？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T11:42:13.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:42:19.259000+08:00","text":"因為不是設「組長」，它是設「人力的專職化」，所以能不能夠用契約晉用等等？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T11:42:19.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:42:34.912000+08:00","text":"因為這些都涉及到地方政府整體的運用人力，我們也覺得這是新時代比較先進的作法，但是這5項的精神可能要跟地方政府或是有關單位，包含人力單位做比較完整的溝通。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T11:42:35.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:42:37.574000+08:00","text":"相關的進度我們會持續跟委員會報。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:42:37.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:42:46.297000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝署長這麼清楚的說明，我想我們都知道爭議點在哪裡，尤其是財劃法新版實施之後，其實我們有非常多的錢都到地方去了。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:42:46.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:43:01.363000+08:00","text":"我先預告，我認為，如果你們在這件事情上面沒有把態度說清楚，就是到底這些新增的員額是在編制裡面，包含你剛才說的副組長也好、還是相關的契約範本也好，到底我們會用什麼樣的方法來聘請這些行政專職？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:43:01.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:43:05.705000+08:00","text":"我希望教育部的態度要清楚，到底錢是地方政府出的，還是你們出的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:43:05.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:43:27.157000+08:00","text":"因為我們知道國教系統有非常多的事項隸屬地方政府，我不希望在選舉這一年，到時候很多地方政府因為自己不願意編列相關的預算，不願意有所承擔，又甩鍋丟包回來給教育部，就如同之前「三章一Q」一樣，所以我先提醒這件事情，也期待國教署跟我的辦公室有比較明確、就是剛剛署長你所說的5項回復。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:43:27.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:43:28.717000+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:43:29.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:43:33.900000+08:00","text":"署長暫時再停留一下，因為這件事情還是跟你有關。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:43:33.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:43:47.804000+08:00","text":"再來就是有關偏鄉師資的部分，我們要謝謝部長之前到TFT參加一個所謂浸潤式，也就是所謂的「偏遠地區學校學士後教育學分班」，甚至是各式各樣的課程規劃進度。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:43:48.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:44:06.691000+08:00","text":"當時我們在講，「偏遠地區學校學士後教育學分班」開班開得很少，報名的人數也相對少，可是感謝教育部在去年擴大辦理之後，目前我們看到，開班的人數都是過去的二到三倍，我們確實看見實務上的需求，也謝謝教育部願意開班。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:44:07.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:44:14.614000+08:00","text":"我想問有關今年的部分，今年我們有什麼樣的進度規劃，或是跟過去不一樣的作法，或是更積極回應地方老師的需求？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:44:15.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:44:15.875000+08:00","text":"這個可不可以請部長來說明一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:44:18.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:44:21.377000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員關心偏鄉的教育品質，包括師資的來源。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:44:22.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:45:09.690000+08:00","text":"確實，在偏鄉地區裡邊，我們不僅是開設學士後學分班，我們現在還開設專班，甚至寒暑假還有線上課程，因為我們非常清楚，偏鄉的這些老師，代理、代課的老師，他們沒有辦法在一般的上課日的夜間來上課，所以我們除了有專班，像原住民地區我們還有開設原住民公費專班；像有一些STEAM，我們也有請師大開設STEAM的專班，至於偏鄉部分，除了有學士後專班以外，我們對於來自於金門、馬祖、澎湖也特別開專班，也進行線上學習。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:45:09.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:45:26.155000+08:00","text":"理論課部分，基本上我們鼓勵師培單位儘量用線上課程，實務操作部分就利用寒暑假，讓真正對臺灣教育人才培育有熱情的這些年輕老師能夠圓他們的夢，也能夠一起來守護臺灣的教育。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:45:26.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:45:28.077000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長，您說明的非常清楚。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:45:28.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:45:35.504000+08:00","text":"確實在去年的小教報考人數就變多了，可是目前中教的報考人數仍然寥寥可數。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:45:36.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:45:50.395000+08:00","text":"我知道教育部今年有放寬，只要四個學期就可以報名，可是因為小教現在還是要六個學期，我當然知道民間團體有他們的倡議，我就簡單地說，請教育部帶回去研議，有沒有機會小教從六學期一樣改成四學期？","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:45:50.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:45:56.177000+08:00","text":"當然我知道你們認為現在小教已經人滿為患，也許不需要，但我想你們還是可以回去考慮一下。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:45:57.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:46:11.262000+08:00","text":"另外要請教部長，部長也非常喜歡、非常在意的是教學實作導向的師資培育試辦計畫，我知道你們有計畫在推進跟進行，我也想要確定今年的進度，大方向是不是會後可以給本席一個報告？","quality":0.61},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:46:11.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:46:14.043000+08:00","text":"因為時間有限，我就不讓部長在這裡多說，可以嗎？","quality":0.55},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:46:14.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:46:20.026000+08:00","text":"但是我希望相關的同仁要協助部長積極推進這件事情，因為部長也非常在意嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:46:20.026000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T11:46:23.708000+08:00","text":"有關TFT等等的這些結合。對、對。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:46:23.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:46:30.832000+08:00","text":"這部分的師培是非常有價值的，我們也看到國際的經驗，所以我想這會成為我們另外一個師資培育的重點。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:46:30.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:46:34.674000+08:00","text":"而且也許比較適合現在的教學現場，因為實務困境很多，如果老師們邊做邊學……","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:46:36.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:46:44.059000+08:00","text":"這一些年輕畢業的學生充滿對教育的熱情，數量非常大，我們希望他們能夠投入。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:46:46.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:46:46.139000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:46:46.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:47:11.124000+08:00","text":"繼續問及關於久任獎金的部分，因為已經開始發放了，也謝謝署長，之前國教署署長願意放寬認定獎金請領資格，可是當我們在細部盤點之後，發現久任獎金還是有一些問題，我認為應該沒有辦法在今天質詢臺上給我回復，不過我還是把問題提出來，拜託部長甚至請關心的委員一起來關心，以下是偏鄉教育獎金的幾個問題。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:47:11.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:47:18.369000+08:00","text":"第一，任職學校同為偏鄉，可是老師跑到不同學校去了，可能沒有辦法請領。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:47:18.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:47:23.730000+08:00","text":"第二，任職學校同為偏鄉，可是老師跑到不同縣市去了，也沒有辦法請領。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:47:23.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:47:34.394000+08:00","text":"第三，現在的狀況是這樣，請署長聽聽看，公立學校的附設幼兒園可以支領，可是偏鄉的公立幼兒園沒有辦法支領。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:47:34.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:47:55.511000+08:00","text":"第四，可能伍麗華委員也會關心，目前有非常多族語老師及新住民語言的支援老師，他們可能長期在偏鄉支援母語教學，但是他可能因為代課的性質或是原本不在偏鄉條例裡面，所以他完全沒有辦法支領偏鄉久任獎金。","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:47:56.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:48:18.529000+08:00","text":"我們想在第一線師資匱乏的當下跟署長及部長反映，有沒有機會召開相關會議，把這些樣態都盤點完，然後有沒有機會在預算可支應的情況下更加開放，讓這些久任的偏鄉老師都可以實質受到獎金的鼓勵？","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:48:20.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:48:27.335000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員關心，目前委員所關心的幾個樣態，基本上相關的法規都已經改變了。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:48:28.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:48:33.260000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，部長，我剛剛講的都沒有，我剛剛所講就是都沒有，我才講出來，真的！","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T11:48:33.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:48:51.693000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，剛剛部長的意思是，在部長的理念跟3月5日的文都可以處理，但是有些認定因為在細節的操作面，是不是容我把剛才講的公立幼兒園（不是附幼），以及族語老師的身分認定……這會涉及到地方政府可能對認定的權限會認為是否有到那麼大，這部分由我們來跟他們開會，開完幾個個案之後，我們會做成問題彙編，就可以全國通用？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:48:51.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:48:52.093000+08:00","text":"很好，你講到關鍵，問題彙編什麼時候開始修訂？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T11:49:02.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:49:21.176000+08:00","text":"問題彙編現在是逐期可以公布，我們每半個月會公布一次，因為最近這個新制度部長也很關心，希望能夠儘量照顧多一點我們的夥伴，所以3月5日那個文已經非常放寬，並且授權，但是對地方政府認定方面還怕有窒礙，所以我們會定期召開，每15天會公布一個新版的QA。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:49:22.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:49:25.117000+08:00","text":"也請副本提供給教育及文化委員會的所有委員，包含本席辦公室。","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:49:25.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:49:30.017000+08:00","text":"我認為偏鄉老師這部分，非常多委員會關心，為什麼要這樣講？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:49:30.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:49:37.999000+08:00","text":"我們當時立這個久任偏鄉獎金，我們在意的穩定師資，指的到底是指整體的偏鄉師資還是個別學校？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:49:38.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:49:49.521000+08:00","text":"當時的版本看起來比較是照顧個別學校，但我認為時過境遷這麼多年之後，其實所有整體偏鄉師資穩定這件事情變得非常非常重要，謝謝部長跟署長。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:49:49.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:50:12.708000+08:00","text":"最後一個題目，實驗教育三法上路已經十年了，有越來越多學生走出所謂的主流體制，但我認為所有進到實驗教育三法，不管是個人自學、機構自學還是團體自學，有非常多的困境都已經在十年後開始浮現了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:50:17.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:50:32.334000+08:00","text":"很多困境浮現，第一，很多縣市政府本來有很多空出來的教室跟場地，應該優先提供給這些自學機構申請，但是很多地方政府置之不理，他們不友善的不接受這些申請，非常可惜。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:50:33.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:50:40.897000+08:00","text":"第二，很多地方政府面對不同的機構之間有大小眼，我們也不知道為什麼，例如對於公辦公營或是公辦民營的態度完全不同。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:50:42.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:50:54.223000+08:00","text":"第三，我們在特教法跟學輔法修法完之後，有非常多自學機構裡面的老師跟家長，遇到孩子們有特教的需求跟輔導的需求，完全沒有辦法在這個體制裡面受到照顧。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:50:54.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:50:58.145000+08:00","text":"我認為十年前很多人認為走進實驗教育的小孩叫做體制外，錯！","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:50:59.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:51:13.680000+08:00","text":"我希望從現在開始，大家重新去想一個念頭，就是實驗教育三法所照顧的都是我們的孩子，這些孩子因為有法而他們都叫「體制內」，既然是體制內，在十年後的今天，我們應該要開啟修法的座談會跟討論。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:51:15.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:51:37.533000+08:00","text":"這個部分我要先提醒部長，我們來看一下，實驗教育人數逆勢成長，在學生總數5年少了27萬的同時，有越來越多人走出校園，走到實驗教育三法所照顧的機構裡面，這件事情我認為非同小可，尤其輔導資源跟特教資源都照顧不了這些小孩，我認為這是我們要檢討的部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:51:37.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:51:46.398000+08:00","text":"我知道部長今天應該沒有辦法回答，我就簡單說到這邊，我希望後續教育部可以開啟修法的討論，我們辦公室也會實質的推進，想聽一下部長的態度。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:51:48.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:51:51.767000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員關心，實驗教育三法確實是民主的象徵……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:51:51.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:51:52.467000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:51:53.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:52:09.342000+08:00","text":"我們過去是單一的一個思維，其實民主本來就是多元，所以我們因應所謂的個別差異並且能夠因材施教，我想實驗三法某種程度等於是在輔助這個……","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:52:11.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:52:16.547000+08:00","text":"應該是說它照顧了不同學習樣態的家庭跟孩子的需求。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:52:16.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:52:17.989000+08:00","text":"對、對，能夠在學校裡面兼顧到個人需求。","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:52:18.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:52:23.916000+08:00","text":"而且這個個人需求，我認為不再那麼個人囉，你看這個數字就知道其實非常非常的明顯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:52:24.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:52:55.623000+08:00","text":"好，接下來這一題我覺得很難，但是我要告訴部長現在教育部面對的困境是這個，就是臺語沈浸幼兒園的問題，我們來看一下，我們發現了教育部的很多作為其實非常的消極，我們辦公室一直在想，我們不是只有提出問題，我們也很試著想跟教育部一起努力提出解方，我們就找了客委會來討論，而且請教了現場的專家學者，本席辦公室就召開了座談會，我們邀請了客委會來告訴我們現在客委會的做法是什麼，我們來看以下客委會的做法。","quality":0.639},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:52:57.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:53:07.421000+08:00","text":"關於教保員的部分，在幼兒園部分，客委會要求教保員的語言門檻是客語必須要有中高級以上能力，但是在臺語方面幼兒園完全沒有。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:53:08.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:53:13.846000+08:00","text":"在教保員的培訓機制，客委會有一套機制非常的完整，可是臺語部分完全沒有，只有研習。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:53:14.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:53:25.490000+08:00","text":"再來是語言陪伴的制度，臺語的部分是顧問制，而且不可以入班，可是客委會從中央到地方都有專業輔導團，甚至有客語陪伴員及教師互助社群。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:53:26.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:53:35.675000+08:00","text":"再來有關資訊獲取管道，目前臺語幼兒園的老師跟教保員告訴我們是分散的，他們要自己去找，可是我們看到客委會非常認真的做了專屬網站跟一站式的資源。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:53:36.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:54:14.322000+08:00","text":"其實不是只有教育部現在面臨這個困境，我們問了原民會、客委會跟教育部，對於在協助成立這些所謂的國家語言的學校機制上，其實從來沒有一個平臺去討論這個事情，如果整體的環境跟有越來越多的家長有意識，不論他是希望他的小孩進入所謂客委會這客語的幼兒園還是臺語幼兒園，甚至我們未來在部落裡頭會有非常多原住民語言的幼兒園，對於這些事情，如果教育部、客委會跟原民會沒有一個好的經驗交流甚至成果分享，我認為在教育部這邊依然可能在三、五年後看到都會是同一個狀況。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:54:14.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:54:20.385000+08:00","text":"本席辦公室做了研究，也做了座談，所以我想要快速給教育部幾個建議，我們辦公室也會持續地追蹤。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:54:21.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:54:28.148000+08:00","text":"第一，我們希望你們積極跟客委會及已經有做出成效的原民會還有文化部，就國家語言的部分要進行經驗分享跟交流。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:54:28.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:54:38.453000+08:00","text":"第二，教育部如果沒有中央輔導團，以學術研究跟論述作為基底，協助開發課程、模組、教具、教材等輔導資源，我認為現場老師困境很大。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:54:39.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:54:44.536000+08:00","text":"第三，教育部如何跟地方政府、專家學者研議成立地方輔導團及陪伴員？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:54:45.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:54:48.918000+08:00","text":"第四，臺語教保資訊平臺相關計畫的一站式網站現在依然沒有。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:54:49.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:55:06.166000+08:00","text":"以上講了這麼多，千頭萬緒，我只是要告訴部長，我們不是只來提出問題，我們也請教了客委會，謝謝客委會還有屏東大學的老師給我們非常多好的建議，我把這些建議交給部長，我想要請教育部積極去研議，三個月內給我們規劃報告可以嗎？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:55:08.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:55:08.748000+08:00","text":"這些資料我們可以再送交教育部。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:55:08.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:55:09.108000+08:00","text":"三個月提相關報告OK……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:55:09.108000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T11:55:10.108000+08:00","text":"規劃報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:55:09.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:55:42.174000+08:00","text":"但是我也利用這個機會跟委員報告，我們從去年9月開始，已經透過全國22個教育局處首長的會議做了宣示，從幼兒園及從語言上，等於是著眼社區語言的共通性，開啟不管是臺語、客語或原住民語，就幼兒園裡面變成是老師在幼兒教學很重要的一個語言介面。","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:55:43.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:55:56.890000+08:00","text":"我們也請國教署不定期到各地方學校幼兒園去訪視，希望對於本土語言、國家語言的推動能夠從幼兒園就開始全面來推動。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:55:57.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:55:58.873000+08:00","text":"本席時間有限，請再給我30秒。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:55:58.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:56:16.643000+08:00","text":"部長剛才所講，我完全認同，你在局處會議上用宣示的方法，可是一旦所有老師要動起來，教保員要動起來，他就需要我剛剛講的這些事情，他需要教材，他需要資源，他需要網站，他需要陪伴，他需要相關的輔導機制，以協助他去落實部長的宣示跟交代，對嗎？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:56:17.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:56:19.284000+08:00","text":"所以部長這邊該做的事情，我們來一起努力。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T11:56:19.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:56:51.660000+08:00","text":"是的，輔導團裡面包含許多教材的開發，我們當然都一直持續在做，現在地方也有一定的程度做得非常不錯，像去年全國舉辦的本土語言教材的開發，我也到現場去看了，各縣市在這個部分還真的都做得有許多具體的成果，會後除了委員的建議我們來深化以外，有一些東西我想會後我們也跟委員做更詳細的報告。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-01T11:56:51.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:56:52.160000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T11:56:52.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T11:56:53.001000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳培瑜委員，請部長回座。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T11:56:53.501000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T11:56:56.072429+08:00","text":"接下來請吳沛憶委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}