{"error":false,"id":["168146"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168146,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168146","日期":"2026-04-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-6","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":6,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-01T11:59:51+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-01T12:10:15+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:24","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106c0ea72d166f9ca1b9bad885c3c28ba2b2994a069f48f295f3c86df9d5e1265cba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:59:51 - 12:10:15","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「台馬 ECA生效後之經貿效益分析及台吐、台帛氣候防護合作成效」，併請經濟部、財政部、農業部列席，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.0434687500000002,"end":1.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.38096875,"end":3.2372187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.60846875,"end":4.384718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.15596875,"end":10.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.016593750000002,"end":13.817843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.121593750000002,"end":38.438468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.53971875,"end":39.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.22721875,"end":42.032843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.454718750000005,"end":49.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.39034375,"end":49.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.59284375,"end":51.432218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.22971875,"end":53.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.955343750000004,"end":53.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.59221875,"end":59.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.36346875,"end":59.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.59971875,"end":61.30409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.455968750000004,"end":61.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.877843750000004,"end":62.265968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.907218750000006,"end":63.126593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.025343750000005,"end":65.70846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.46409375,"end":66.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.48471875,"end":69.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.46346875,"end":68.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.47159375000001,"end":69.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.01159375,"end":70.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.73284375,"end":74.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.06971875,"end":84.47346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.30534375,"end":84.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.43971875000001,"end":90.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.12659375000001,"end":92.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.70846875000001,"end":118.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.51034375,"end":168.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.51096875000002,"end":186.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.56721875000002,"end":195.56159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.05096875,"end":197.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.16471875000002,"end":201.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.08784375000002,"end":203.52659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.03284375,"end":210.98534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.23846875,"end":213.95534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.52909375000002,"end":217.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.39346875,"end":232.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.80471875,"end":263.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.68596875000003,"end":271.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.77034375,"end":263.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.56221875,"end":285.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.94409375000004,"end":291.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.10346875,"end":295.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.11971875,"end":296.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.63846875,"end":298.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.65096875,"end":300.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.49034375,"end":303.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.00471875,"end":311.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.67971875,"end":303.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.41284375000004,"end":370.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.95596875,"end":318.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.28409375,"end":325.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.01596875,"end":339.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.62284375,"end":400.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.47471875,"end":408.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.94596875,"end":412.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.73846875000004,"end":416.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.02909375,"end":417.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.87284375,"end":418.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.68284375,"end":443.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.72534375000004,"end":445.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.22284375000004,"end":450.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.89721875000004,"end":452.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.66909375,"end":462.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.05159375000005,"end":463.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.51971875000004,"end":468.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.49346875000003,"end":470.6578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我請林部長"},{"start":10.148,"end":39.05,"text":"好 部長我們的外交工作非常辛苦那我想請問一下在網路上有一個粉專政客爽那他有一個影片就是呢總統在接見就是美國代表團的時候因為總統在發表演說然後在那個影片裡面呢你眼睛閉起來然後有點頭請問一下那個時候你是不是非常的勞累疲累有度過嗎"},{"start":40.291,"end":52.716,"text":"有閉目養神嗎?謝謝委員的關心,外交的工作是跨時區,很多的業務因為是同仁,有提醒我,外界有在關心這個問題,我是有去看了一下"},{"start":63.712,"end":91.922,"text":"是有閉幕啦,但很快就回神了很快回神,但是有一點,有杜姑是看起來是有啊,但是我是說打瞌睡與否是一回事,但拼外交不能打折啦我是說我是很全面所以部長也很誠實的講說那個時候確實有閉幕養神啦我們可以這樣講嗎對啦,這也是很快就回神了啦"},{"start":93.342,"end":116.312,"text":"因為我們質詢 因為我們還是會關心部長你的身體的狀態希望你都保持非常旺盛的精神來拚外交另外 這一次美國四位的參議員來台訪問我在這邊要特別肯定一位就是我們的現在是國防部的副部長徐思潔"},{"start":118.753,"end":123.636,"text":"為什麼呢?因為在這個參議員他在訪問的過程裡面到中科院訪問徐思簡在他們的面前特別提到就是我們已經我們已經付款但是仍然延宕還沒有交貨的這些軍購我覺得這點非常重要我們現在在審查這個有關於我們國防特別預算其實我們一直非常關心而且社會大眾最關心的這一點就是說我們預算給了"},{"start":148.473,"end":151.955,"text":"錢也付了但是為什麼我們採購的這個軍售遲遲沒有辦法到貨老師說過去我在看我們不管 雖然是拼外交也好你們到國外訪問也好或者美國的訪問團來台灣也好我都沒有看見我們的官員公開的來關心這個事情"},{"start":168.607,"end":172.07,"text":"來表達我們社會大眾關心我們已付款卻未到貨的這些軍購我覺得至少徐師姐敢講出來而不是在這些美國的訪問團裡面然後大罵藍白沒有通過預算很重要的就是我們社會大眾應該關心的事情要做反應這一點我覺得我是肯定徐師姐的做法"},{"start":196.087,"end":199.83,"text":"那另外請教一下就剛才也有委員特別講到WTO部長會議"},{"start":203.154,"end":231.855,"text":"部長我們台灣雖然小但是我們算是貿易大國我們的貿易量全球排名第15所以WTO對我們很重要很重要的是台灣對於WTO也非常重要但是這一次因為這樣的外交因素因為克麥隆其實是非常無理而且有矮化我們國格的問題使得我們第一次沒有辦法參加WTO部長"},{"start":232.896,"end":256.346,"text":"及的會議這是非常重大的損失我們也擔心他未來不要變成一個常態所以部長你在這邊可不可以好來做一個了解就說我很擔心今年我們沒有辦法參加部長級會議未來會不會有其他的會員國也如此無理所以除了對柯麥隆"},{"start":257.446,"end":271.659,"text":"的抗議之外 我們有沒有對WTO的秘書處做強烈的抗議你們WTO不能說你今天就尊重今天主辦國 愛怎麼搞就亂搞啊台灣是貿易大國耶 我們很重要啊"},{"start":273.423,"end":295.143,"text":"柯班長既然要主辦這種WTO的國際會議尤其是部長會議他就應該遵守WTO的規定他不遵守以他控制我們因為要簽證入關使我們實質上無法入境那我們現在就是說要求WTO的秘書處以及未來要稱辦的國家都必須要"},{"start":296.175,"end":306.382,"text":"就是先承諾不能夠有差別待遇我們要求秘書處要做這樣的一個因為申辦國現在也是有國家申辦我們也在交涉他們當然也表達他們會對我覺得這一點很重要因為他不能這一次是一個極為極為例外他不能成為一個常態其實我老講我們是WTO的會員國我們不是觀察員"},{"start":323.875,"end":327.418,"text":"我們是會員國另外最後用一點時間剛剛特別提到你們在昨天對於南韓的應對方案臨時喊卡可是其實這樣的問題是越來越多我這邊也有接到民眾的投訴他在德國柏林的布蘭登機場布蘭登堡機場他是自動check in的時候"},{"start":353.034,"end":380.704,"text":"這個系統呢 出現在你的國籍的國籍欄裡面只有台灣,China然後當然韓國電子路徑卡 還有前一陣子丹麥丹麥是對於我們的拘留證 變成CHN所以呢 我們外交部也斥責也有斥責丹麥 也有跟他們抗議然後越南簽證也是如此 也是China 然後瓜湖台灣"},{"start":381.724,"end":394.414,"text":"所以也就是說韓國電子入境卡的事情它變成不是單一個案可能越來越多的其他的國家機場也好 拘留證也好 簽證申請也好都會出現這樣子的一個把我們矮化的狀態"},{"start":401.058,"end":412.844,"text":"那當然我們本來是在韓國大家很生氣說我們把他改成南韓那如果我這樣子看那麼多那我們要把德國改成西德把你越南改成北越把你在外改成樂高王國算了"},{"start":413.769,"end":442.688,"text":"但是這樣子好像也不是一個正伴所以我們所以在講說我們中華民國的外交確實碰到很多的困境剛才也講的就是說除了韓國電子入境卡這次因為國人去韓國非常多所以感受很深刻可是剛才講的德國的機場越南的簽證當然可能到丹麥去去居留的人不多可是陸陸續續都碰到相關的狀態"},{"start":443.989,"end":462.616,"text":"所以請問一下部長有沒有一個就是未來一個怎麼樣的對應的方式我看得出來外交部不想把這個爭議直接的拉高希望給外就不要給韓國一些時間可是別說德國啦或者是丹麥這些我們要怎麼辦呢"},{"start":463.724,"end":481.497,"text":"各位報告 確實這個樣態也很多因為現在很多國家都在整合電磁化的政府包括入境 也許不同的政府單位也許有不同的做法現在在整合中就產生中共可以施壓的一個切入點"},{"start":483.238,"end":495.882,"text":"當然每個國家的情形我們都會根據那個情形來處理這個我想有關於韓方我們已經處理了丹麥我們在處理中基於外交就是對等丹麥有沒有可能有一些轉圜"},{"start":498.243,"end":526.133,"text":"是我想其實丹麥包括歐盟的國家包括丹麥裡面的很多政要也都認為他們在兩年多前去做這個有關於我們在他們那邊的這個所謂的居留證的登記這個國籍的部分去更改這個是他改變的現狀所以我們當然在交涉中在交涉過程我們也基於對等之原則那我們也有告訴他方案了"},{"start":527.523,"end":552.741,"text":"因為他要入境我們也是可以把他空白或用什麼其他的方式所以我說要努力但是我們目的是要解決問題我們在台灣當然可以用大內宣方式或者用意識形態的方式比如說剛才沈伯陽委員可以講一堆其實全世界沒有啦可是事實上我們國人出境或者在海外居留等等都陸續去碰到相關的問題"},{"start":554.642,"end":561.845,"text":"所以這已經不是單一事件這並不是我們自己在這邊覺得說這個就是全世界沒有這樣的做法可是事實上就碰到這些像這個到德國去check in的時候那他們也是來跟我們反映啊所以很生氣很生氣可是問題他要登機啊他還是要去登機對不對所以我覺得在這個部分我還是希望建議外交部能夠很務實的去看待這個問題"},{"start":583.174,"end":590.14,"text":"我們可以去抗議的 像我剛剛講WGO一定要嚴重的抗議因為我是會員國啊 會員國不能參加部長級會議 開玩笑了但是有一些他跟我們沒有邦交的跟我們沒有邦交 或者有一些他跟我們有一定的經貿往來或者是韓國是因為我們的旅客的人數佔他們非常大的一個比例我們有更好的更多的一個就是談判的條件"},{"start":609.136,"end":623.066,"text":"所以我們要很務實的去因應這些越來越多的像這樣的一個入境爭議 好不好好 我覺得委員的分析跟因個每個情形我們都要做妥當的應處對 好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}