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11:25:14","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「清明連續假期疏運方案規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、審查委員許智傑等22人擬具「引水法第六條條文修正草案」案。【本次會議僅進行詢答】【4月1日及2日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.51471875,"end":10.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.98284375,"end":12.450968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.68721875,"end":13.716593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.750343750000003,"end":16.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.20096875,"end":20.770343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.23034375,"end":20.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.49159375,"end":24.044093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.31409375,"end":32.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.190343750000004,"end":37.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.64534375,"end":47.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.77034375,"end":48.799718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.204718750000005,"end":57.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.625343750000006,"end":58.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.009093750000005,"end":60.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.51096875,"end":65.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.20221875,"end":75.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.05284375000001,"end":79.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.33909375,"end":92.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.29909375000001,"end":109.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.89159375000001,"end":116.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.99159375,"end":128.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.24721875,"end":141.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.98346875000001,"end":144.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.70034375,"end":169.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.83784375000002,"end":156.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.65846875,"end":169.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.33346875,"end":171.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.97034375,"end":172.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.69159375,"end":218.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.83721875,"end":187.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.97534375,"end":194.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.24159375000002,"end":218.57909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.57909375000003,"end":219.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.21596875,"end":222.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.62909375,"end":222.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.76409375,"end":222.78096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.78096875000003,"end":222.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.57409375,"end":225.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.86909375000002,"end":229.95284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.56034375000002,"end":233.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.64846875,"end":235.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.74096875,"end":236.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.44971875000002,"end":238.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.74471875,"end":240.98909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.59659375,"end":244.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.53284375,"end":245.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.64659375000002,"end":246.47346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.91221875000002,"end":248.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.75159375,"end":251.06346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.23221875000002,"end":263.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.39471875000004,"end":284.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.45471875000004,"end":285.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.34909375,"end":287.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.91846875000005,"end":288.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.18409375000005,"end":289.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.34846875,"end":291.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.44096875,"end":295.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.90034375000005,"end":301.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.21159375,"end":303.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.96659375,"end":304.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.35471875,"end":315.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.61034375,"end":321.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.84971875,"end":325.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.76909375,"end":329.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.85721875,"end":329.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.69659375000003,"end":354.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.08534375000005,"end":354.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.84471875,"end":378.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.57096875,"end":409.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02"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謝謝趙偉我請我們交通部陳部長好 請陳部長高速公路局陳局長陳局長來 部長 局長各位好好 直接切入主題首先第一個問題是左邊那個新聞把它弄得比較小一點但標題應該看得到了就是在兩年前7月21號"},{"start":33.383,"end":48.535,"text":"一個標題是塞道報內立南下的紮道畫了將近一公里的雙白線當時民怨四起因為事前沒有溝通可能因為高速公路也不用跟誰溝通就把它畫上了畫上了把"},{"start":49.575,"end":74.886,"text":"內立交流道因為有從中立大園兩個交流道要上去的 紮到就把它關起來了大概關了900公尺那事實上我們也跟高速公路局開過協調會也透過交通委員會質詢更跟我們高工局甚至我們交通部也在聯絡這個問題必須要去解決最後得到一個答案說中方交流道中方交流道"},{"start":76.207,"end":91.955,"text":"上路之後上路之後因為道路本身就會拓寬開放之後對當時的一個整個站碑道都會改善那時候就可以去做一個處理了那現在因為去年的12月25我們迎接了中峰這個"},{"start":93.436,"end":116.193,"text":"交流道的啟用那現在也三個月了三個月到底現在這個我再問那個那天問局長說你們也在考慮看看怎麼樣有什麼建議方案那現在能不能確認一下好不好大概什麼時候可以調整要不要調整說明一下像委員報告這個部分高工局這邊已經有做過會刊那也決定要做調整那調整的時間是不是請局長這邊"},{"start":117.915,"end":131.262,"text":"我們因為它是兩個就是說南入的閘道其實蠻接近的那這次中風交通道通車之後我們也做了整體的這個交通量的一些做一些調整也做一些調查"},{"start":132.162,"end":157.036,"text":"那所以就是說我們就是第一個從這個內力上來的這個南路環道的這一個的雙白絲線我們要做一些調整那把它縮短那讓這一個從這邊上來的這一個交通量的話就可以直接併入主線然後不用到前面就是說從大園進來的才要整個合併再進來那這一個的調整的話這個我們大概時間大概要多久"},{"start":157.597,"end":172.399,"text":"我們當初估是大概因為三月份有去做大概的一個評估所以大概三個月是到六月不過我有請同仁就是說能不能盡快在下個月我們下個月五月底以前把它完成那要拜託一下就是說因為"},{"start":173.752,"end":202.159,"text":"可以做而且已經決定要做了我們就希望速度能夠快一點當然不影響到這個交通你們是深夜去把它做一下因為畢竟只有標線的問題你們可能部分路段要重鋪重新劃線讓我們這個區塊因為內地交通道一直是我們桃園南區非常重要的交流道它不光是附近的大概幾十萬個我們的市民更重要還是中壢工業區中壢工業區五百家廠商"},{"start":202.719,"end":221.784,"text":"那邊不管是機械電子甚至食品批發都在那裡他要撲過到全台灣往南下的車流非常非常多已經困擾很久了所以這個部分也拜託部長局長要做我們就盡快來做好不好我們加速來進行好那接下來我們要談一下台鐵公司"},{"start":223.612,"end":240.746,"text":"台鐵公司這個民營化因為我正好有經過民營化那個討論的一個激烈的過程當時因為這個我們畢竟陳部長那時候還沒有擔任交通部部長那在台鐵公司化當時主要的一個目標你們要達成的我們"},{"start":243.688,"end":262.419,"text":"2024第一年不好意思問你第二年也過了現在2026邁向第三年第三個年頭那我就請教一下當時你昭告我們所有的全民不光是立法委員三大核心目標第一個安全第一安全沒有什麼打折扣我當時也質詢過很多"},{"start":264.44,"end":288.312,"text":"那為什麼公司化之後你們就會這個安全會提升你們有很多的說法嘛因為你們自由度啊人才找很多專家你們有很多的一個說法那第二個是提升服務的準點率第三個今天不談啦改善財務的結構但財務的結構我事先講喔我們立法院也好我們全國這個"},{"start":290.413,"end":302.971,"text":"只要坐火車的國民在去年的六月份你們調高平均的一個票價26.8%我也坦白講大家也說這麼多年沒調了要你們做好"},{"start":304.008,"end":321.181,"text":"那把你們的一些票價補足我是覺得那一陣子並沒有很多很大的一些民怨大家就好給你們讓你們的財務先做一個改善那我覺得你這個董事長你說一下好不好你覺得三大目標你覺得你打幾分啊"},{"start":323.762,"end":338.474,"text":"這個分數可能還是要由民眾來打分我是跟委員報告就是說在安全方面我們當然是台鐵的天子一定要把安全做好"},{"start":338.934,"end":365.99,"text":"那在這部分的話我是覺得如果說以異常事件來看那麼前一年的話是第一年的時候是271件那去年我們少了103件那今年的話我們現在也朝這個目標大概一個禮拜大概是11件12件在努力那這一部分的話我是去年6月上來"},{"start":366.71,"end":385.576,"text":"那從7月開始啊我在這部分呢要求我們所有的一級主管包括最主要的是跟安全有關係的公務 電務 機務跟運務那這個主管應該對可能對安全有問題的異常事件呢多做深切的檢討那這樣下來以後啊從去年7月啊"},{"start":385.976,"end":409.517,"text":"一個禮拜大概是二十幾件我跟委員報告我們現在最近已經到可規則的事件大概只到八件九件但十件以內所以這部分我是覺得是有很大的一個進步但是所以在第二點準點力的部分的話其實也是有幫忙但是最近幾個事情可能把大家都認為說台鐵的準點力又把大家脫鉤"},{"start":410.658,"end":436.073,"text":"這樣好了因為我時間的關係因為其實我覺得交通部希望借重你在高鐵的一些經驗能夠來到我們的台鐵雖然那個實在是那邊比較單純路線單一車型也單一你到了台鐵之後完全不一樣車型那麼多不容易啦可是我覺得安全第一你剛剛講頻率改善它的強度你可能單一事件一鍵就好了"},{"start":436.733,"end":448.678,"text":"那讓全民的感受我覺得安全跟準點服務我覺得現在民眾的感受並不是很好我希望你們能夠知道這是我在去年12月29號這個當時是我們總經理你來回答的嘛"},{"start":453.308,"end":475.496,"text":"我們那時候就在問說這個因為急電工造成的不管電車線交互的影響受損程度從109年到去年114年怎麼越來越多那你當時一個特別回答我們全縣每天都在做這個檢查那我們也願意相信我們也希望拜託要做要做好嘛"},{"start":476.016,"end":492.183,"text":"要做要做實戰不能說 喔 檢查了那你現在這很我剛剛這個其他表都是我去年12月29號跟你請教的結果你3月27號你發生這樣的在三家站附近讓樹林英哥整個那邊斷線"},{"start":493.924,"end":515.836,"text":"而且修了特別久 修了將近到中午之後才單線雙向通車就影響到 居然是比我們去年在執行的不管是影響了班次 影響了人數尤其延誤的時間超過兩萬分鐘啊甚至有一個站延誤 車輛延誤310分鐘啊你們知道嗎 本來要坐上班的"},{"start":516.847,"end":543.938,"text":"結果他等到下班了我覺得光這一件事的感受這個強度由於對準點相對的安全的印象我覺得是真的很不行那這個董事長我想你們真的要好好再檢討一下還是總經理再回答一下那急電工就是每天都在檢查對不對你也承諾了跟委員報告這個急電工的問題這一次是一個急電工造成的問題"},{"start":544.798,"end":570.691,"text":"但是今天主要是因為這個駕駛員他沒有按照SOP他的急電工有狀況的時候他的VCP就是所謂的這個空調電路器他應該要趕快下來看是不是急電工有造作他不應該再開他繼續再開所以就從這個一路從樹林一直到英哥那邊大概搞了大概9.6公里"},{"start":571.932,"end":586.73,"text":"所以就造成整個沿路的這個電車線都下來所以就造成在我們修路上非常的困難這個弄到我們部長都震怒了震怒了可是因為這個問題你不解決因為我覺得有一些是人為的問題有一些是市都的問題"},{"start":587.671,"end":612.778,"text":"我看到你好幾件事都是有double check的機制不管是有這個檢修人員或者司機員有好幾一堆人要看這件事情然後一樣在一堆人面前把這個事情搞砸你們讓這兩件事情讓那個這個EMU最美電聯車現在變不美了你知道嗎你現在最美區間車3月30號基礎撞在一起了你知道前面那個"},{"start":614.096,"end":643.356,"text":"微笑的曲線那一天啊變成什麼 剩下那個凹陷曲線不見了 剩下凹陷扭曲的凹陷在這整個那個過程中而且比剛剛那個來講是司機員 檢修員你這件事情在吊車場裡面有第一個吊車員第二個司機員第三個至少三名的吊車工配合吊車工第四個還有監控的巡控人員四組人叫做分工合作"},{"start":644.457,"end":661.499,"text":"合作到這樣的我覺得已經有double check你到底制度上出了什麼問題就說簡單來說如果是真的只有一個人的出了意外互相監督居然在制度上系統上沒有辦法解決我真的覺得這個部長說三天以內"},{"start":662.642,"end":678.636,"text":"你要有一個明確的答案而且真的要落實到教育這種我覺得都是不應該的低級的錯誤但是不斷的發生那最後請部長你來講一下"},{"start":679.096,"end":705.778,"text":"報告委員非常感謝您的關心我覺得安全是最重要的我們所有的同仁的訓練是很重要的這是第一第二我們的SOP一定是有設定但第三如果同仁沒有照SOP在做的時候台鐵的問責文化也必須要啟動因為我們有看到一些事件其實不只是造成旅客的不方便更重要的是造成我們自己的同仁受傷不照SOP的結果就會造成我們的同仁受傷或者是像這個列車線把電線拉斷的問題"},{"start":708.84,"end":717.974,"text":"所以我認為台鐵一方面他們的SOP要重新檢討二方面對SOP的落實如果無法做到那台鐵公司的問責文化也必須要啟動"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}