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有請曾部長委員好部長好因為今天大家討論這個教師法其實最終目的我覺得還是要給老師一定的尊重要改善對老師的不友善的環境剛剛大家都談很多現在少事化真的非常嚴重我真是希望教育部可以很正視這個問題因為教育是國家的根本"},{"start":30.199,"end":55.178,"text":"如果連老師都不願意投入這一個工作的話那以後誰來教育學生這其實是雙輸的局面教育部常常講說地方怎麼樣地方怎麼樣但教育部總是教育的最高單位當然希望你多做一些事情包括我們都希望跟你一起來討論看怎麼樣讓教育更好那我昨天總諮詢也跟總太院長跟部長很深入的討論有關於校園安全的問題"},{"start":55.578,"end":74.609,"text":"基本上我覺得校園安全這個議題啊也會影響到老師願不願意留在這個職場的動機就像昨天卓榮泰院長他我也是很感謝他他有肯定我因為想要解決這個校園安全的問題所以呢提了一個安心上學法案針對那些"},{"start":75.189,"end":104.111,"text":"常常戴蝴蝶套上課啊然後那種動不動就拿可能會有疑慮他也可能拿刀刺人的啊或者是拿鋁棒敲人的啊這種背後有乾哥乾姐的這種學生希望能夠由教育部可以設立一個專屬的學校然後由一些教育很有理念的專業團體來設立比如說以人為本然後比如說那個愛的教育正向管教讓原本的學校的師生可以得到喘息好好讀書啦昨天院長他說他有認同我這個大方向"},{"start":104.631,"end":126.233,"text":"不過昨天院長講了一句話在網路上有一些老師也有意見因為院長說如果遇到那些會帶刀上課的學生那老師跟行政人員就要有所處置啊但是他講這句話是完全不了解教學現場因為在現在教學的情況之下如果你說要一般的行政人員跟老師面對這種學生他要怎麼處理他沒有能力處理啊"},{"start":126.84,"end":155.578,"text":"所以教育部要針對這件事情我覺得要提出一個方案出來那我覺得既然院長他肯定我的立法方向那接下來細節部分我們是不是可以真的非常認真我們上次有開過公聽會但部長沒有來啦是不是可以找一個時間跟請部長啊部長可以找一些相關的人我們一起就是不一定要利用這個委員會的時間我們可以很認真來討論一下細節因為他可能牽涉到比較深入的討論不知道部長願意嗎"},{"start":157.844,"end":171.28,"text":"怎麼樣讓學校更友善更安全讓老師教學能夠安心學生學習放心家長也能夠放心小孩子在學校學習我想這個方向我們是一定願意來努力的"},{"start":174.804,"end":179.087,"text":"我是說既然院長有肯定我們的立法方向的話那我們就我們來找一個時間來討論一下那個細節啦因為我們委員會職區時間也不多啦也沒辦法很認真進入細節我都約你啊我們再找個時間來討論因為確實是需要有另外的一個時間重溫討論這個好"},{"start":195.62,"end":222.108,"text":"我來提一下因為我之前我在上個會期我有提到一個事情也是跟老師的待遇跟尊重老師有關的因為我先肯定一下教育部把老師的終點費提高了那這個是肯定當然這第一步我們覺得不夠但是可以再多一點可是至少已經跨出第一步但是因為它反映了一個狀況就是說如果學校的老師他如果不是導師也不是行政人員他也不是終點老師的話其實對這些老師來講"},{"start":224.509,"end":252.089,"text":"教育部現在的做法對他們來說是沒有差的反而是讓他們多付出為什麼呢因為他們如果請假一般老師請假的待課費用是老師自己出嘛那所以他的請的他出的待課費用反而提高所以像一群就是比如說他可能是科人老師在教育部的這一波的待遇的調整他們其實沒有受惠其實是沒有受惠反而多付出這個部長我跟你提過不知道你還記得嗎"},{"start":253.086,"end":272.646,"text":"你記得嗎 記得嗎那當時我是不知道說教育部要怎麼去解決這個問題啦針對我剛剛提到那一群老師 但我有提一個建議我說不然的話是不是可以減老師的終點開始做起因為現在國小是20個終點 國中18個終點 高中16個終點如果讓所有的老師都可以減兩個終點的話他第一個齁"},{"start":275.689,"end":300.764,"text":"因為108課綱關係老師其實負擔也蠻重的那讓他撿終點如果他願意撿終點那他可以多一點時間去備課或去跟學生相處教學之類的第二個部長可能會講說那撿終點的話那其他的課誰要來教如果找得到就可以讓其他人來教那如果找不到的話呢校內因為撿了終點之後假設由原來的校內老師來上這些課的話"},{"start":302.665,"end":324.026,"text":"那這些老師他就可以得到額外的終點費那他如果得到額外的終點費那他等於是這一次教育部調漲的終點費對他來說就有幫助他等於是有點變相加薪那我上個會期提的時候幾個月已經隔很多個月了當時我跟部長講說其實幫你算過了全國大概增加二十幾億啦"},{"start":325.208,"end":340.586,"text":"這個錢真的對教育部來說不是一個大錢可是你至少可以讓老師得到一個基本尊重而且至少讓所有的老師不管他是導師或者是行政人員他都可以在薪資上面有增加一些其實也增加不多但是這就是有增加到嘛"},{"start":342.048,"end":354.399,"text":"那時候我不知道部長你好像是說要研議一下啦有好幾個月了我不知道部長研議的怎麼樣因為他涉及到地方的一個教育前線嘛地方自治的一個前線國民教育沒有部長部長對不起我要跟你溝通一個觀念喔"},{"start":357.731,"end":370.716,"text":"教育雖然說國民教育牽涉到地方但教育部是最高的主管機關我來今天這邊跟你討論如果你認為做這件事情對教育是有幫助那你教育部可以去跟地方去談啊那你開會了嗎我已經講幾個月了嘛那你去找了嗎你找了嗎會議紀錄給我啊"},{"start":377.839,"end":398.075,"text":"這是上個會期跟您說的啊那如果每一次跟你說你提的都是說那地方的事然後沒有任何的動作那請問一下那部長你是在所以教育都跟你無關嘛能推就推嗎這是幾個月前就跟你講了嘛你說這地方的事請問一下教育部有沒有找地方政府來討論過有沒有國教署署長"},{"start":399.397,"end":425.767,"text":"跟委員報告一下剛剛專業委員有問到類似您的問題行政減量的同時把這個一般老師柯恩老師有沒有機會給他加薪這個有列在我們這一次在四月份跟地方政府談的議題裡面我上個 不好意思署長上個會期就講了上個會期就講了然後呢其實教育部你也可以編這個錢嘛你們對於高教我上次就講了嘛高教那時候特別預算送過來就是幾百億"},{"start":426.847,"end":451.289,"text":"就覺得高教 但我覺得我們也都支持高教啊那高教幾百億 你覺得不編這幾百億高教的韌性會有問題那現在大家今天討論的主題就是怎麼面臨掃師化嘛剛剛那麼多委員都有提到我的這個方案還增加二十幾億然後可以讓一般的老師他不兼行政 沒有當導師他也可以透過減終點的方式得到一點加薪"},{"start":452.73,"end":472.501,"text":"這全國大概就是二三十億然後你就是做不到這個地方的事然後幾個月前跟你們講你說那個地方那你也沒有找地方啊這是全國的嘛撿終點難道是台北市的事嗎是新北市的事嗎要撿當然全國一起撿啊這也是可以全國一體試用啊為什麼教育部不願意呢所以委員我問部長"},{"start":473.956,"end":493.765,"text":"沒有 委員到底要剪幾小...兩個終點我剛講了嘛這個跟地方當然 我們還是那你請問一下你去那你去跟他們討論沒那現在剛才署長已經有跟你報告說我們四月已經把...四月 我是上個會期講的你那時候說要研議結果你現在因為我來這邊問了所以你跟我說四月"},{"start":495.051,"end":518.618,"text":"那我沒有問就8月啦我真的沒有問就12月啦公務員報告你不要大聲啦不是大聲跟大聲小聲什麼關係那我跟部長報告你回答問題不要那麼蠻憨我沒有蠻憨你如果說要來站態度的話要站態度大家一起來站啊我也是就事論事我們尊重地方也跟地方協調希望有一個共通的但是你沒有做"},{"start":519.505,"end":530.297,"text":"你到現在為止都沒有做做得比較慢是這樣沒有錯嗎好啦你要來站態度啦我不要大聲啦那你可不可以積極"},{"start":531.462,"end":555.525,"text":"可以啊你可以做一個積極的教育部長嗎你可以做一個面對問題解決問題然後針對教育困境提出方案的部長嗎我是一個非常積極的教育部長喔 是自我感覺良好阿偉我可不可以補充一下因為你那時候提的時候我們是提用12月31號那個方案已經先做了一波現在地方政府要連續12月31號是什麼方案加了那三項加薪"},{"start":557.607,"end":577.948,"text":"我是上個會期提出來因為三項加薪衍生出來的問題就是一般老師他的待課費用增加如果他不是行政職不是導師等於是這波加薪對他沒有幫助但反而是付出更多成本這個是上個會議講不是12月底的方案我們是12月底宣布那個方案所以您提的時候不是因應"},{"start":578.689,"end":603.272,"text":"那個三項加薪三項加薪是在1月份你又在跟我提過說能不能夠也考慮我跟委員回報說這一個因為涉及到地方政府容我在最近一次通盤性的演繹中一起來規劃因為這個要由剛剛委員講的你說的減兩截地方政府在12月他們已經花了大概21億是不是容我在跟地方政府溝通啦好不好什麼時候"},{"start":603.772,"end":629.077,"text":"什麼時候 那我們訂一個日期出來好不好剛剛有講到四月中以前四月中會完成溝通是不是會完成溝通 第一次溝通因為這會涉及到五項方案剛剛跟陳培英委員講到五項其中有含一項 您提到的這一類要不要用減中這一類思考讓老師行政減量但恐怕沒有辦法減但有點實質加薪這些都是我們的規劃可是時序上 跟委員再補充一下"},{"start":629.717,"end":654.923,"text":"剛剛的時序是這個樣子,謝謝四月是不是?四月是不是?好,那到時候我四月再來問再來,我再請教一下因為最近學測開始放榜嘛那我這邊有接到一些學生的抱怨也反映給部長、署長知道因為如果要申請,用學測要申請入學是不是要準備學期歷程檔案?對吧,要準備學期歷程檔案嘛那結果呢"},{"start":656.966,"end":680.341,"text":"學測其實說考得也不錯啦但是可能因為有些學校要入學他有一個門檻嘛比如國文加社會要達到幾分或是哪一科加哪一科要幾分可能有時候就差一分兩分他就沒有辦法去申請他理想的學校但是他的學習歷程檔案已經做一大堆所以學生在抱怨那為什麼既然我沒有資格沒有機會去申請這些學校為什麼要做這些學習歷程檔案呢"},{"start":681.101,"end":705.201,"text":"那以前的做法啦在108課綱之前的做法是說申請學校就是你如果達到申請那間學校的標準的時候給你幾個月讓你去準備備審資料以前的做法是這樣可是後來把它改成說有一些可能教育專家吧認為說那這樣學生壓力太大要他在兩三個月之內就要準備那麼多資料那乾脆就讓他高一就開始"},{"start":705.982,"end":730.382,"text":"高一就開始結果反而就造成我剛剛講的那個狀況那我再提一個數據啊我相信教育部應該很清楚學習歷程檔案現在越來越大家不想教最新的數據學習成果的未提交比例都接近五成了在高一的時候高一喔高一還是應該是比較聽話的時候剛進到這個環境還願意配合這個體制到高三可能七成多不想教啊"},{"start":731.363,"end":750.03,"text":"所以這個學期歷程檔案真的是應該到了檢討的時候他是不是真的有必要讓學生做這件事情不僅是對很多人覺得白費時間願意準備的白費時間然後很多人是乾脆不理那請問一下這個有達到當初你想要做學期歷程檔案的目的嗎 部長"},{"start":751.777,"end":778.162,"text":"這個跟你也沒關係啦我覺得大家也要就事論事因為這個不是你推的但是既然在這個位置上面假設其他人推的東西遇到了問題那是不是由你來解決那你也是功德一件嘛跟委員報告確實我們現在也看到因為少子化以後我們大學供給量也很大需求量所以有一定的一個程度委員剛才也提到了就是說他不需要靠"},{"start":779.212,"end":806.743,"text":"那個學習歷程檔案他就可以進入到大學我們現在已經折成這個大學入學考試這個委員會跟高中端做一個針對這個學習歷程檔案在政策上做一個認真的一個討論看到底要有什麼樣的一個因應以實際性的一個方法簡單來講比如說如果有一些大學他事實上他就從不管申請入學或者特殊選材裡面"},{"start":808.413,"end":834.065,"text":"或者環境他已經不需要用到或者有一些大學他需要真正去看學生的一個學習歷程檔案我們還是希望認真的來思考這個學習歷程檔案對他們的選材跟學生的一個未來的發展上搭的一個價值性因為現在是多元入學啦有的入學方式本來就不用學習歷程檔案嘛比如你考分科就不用學習歷程檔案但是我們現在學習歷程檔案"},{"start":835.726,"end":854.317,"text":"申請入學的部分嘛學測加上學習程檔案的部分嘛那這個部分很多人認為說也不需要嘛然後還有你會造成學生的負擔嘛他高一高二就開始做對 高一高二就開始做結果他因為學測沒考好就全部都白做啦那為什麼不能恢復像以前一樣"},{"start":855.457,"end":878.693,"text":"就是說他要申請再備審資料就好為什麼要強迫他們高一高二就要做那當然你們會講說什麼高一高二就可以來做的話校園什麼什麼自主探索啊什麼那你們去評估一下他的成效呢那這個其實也有對老師增加負擔嘛因為學生要做要上傳老師也要看所以如果一件事情大家都認為說他沒有達到你當初設定的目標"},{"start":879.594,"end":888.398,"text":"反而製造一些困擾的時候對老師對學生都有困擾的時候那這個東西還有必要持續下去嗎我現在是講這件事情對不對好不好那那一樣啦這個學習證檔案因為"},{"start":895.801,"end":921.679,"text":"每次講都說會思考會研議會什麼我們壓一個日期好不好你是不是可以在什麼時間點把你們的決定或者是怎麼改良要繼續還是怎麼做給大家一個報告好不好各位委員報告針對這個學習歷程檔案其實我們每個月都有召開所謂的剛海部長所說的考照聯動小組的檢討但是在裡面還沒有形成一個比較完善還是有人認為說根據108課剛還是要讓學生提報這個所謂的學習"},{"start":926.122,"end":942.796,"text":"但是也有部分的學者專家就如同委員剛才所說的可以做一些調整跟改變那雙方還沒有具體的共識這個我們會持續的市長我們不能等了啦如果要等到全世界人大家意見都一致的話那這個事情可能118課剛剛就出來了啦"},{"start":945.457,"end":965.404,"text":"你壓一個日期就決定嘛利大於弊還怎麼樣就要做一個決定的不是讓他一直拖啦當然你們的感覺都是一動不如一進嘛可是現在這個問題就衍生出來很多人在抱怨嘛你要做一個決斷嘛那你如果認為說這個東西好要繼續你也跟社會大眾公佈一下啊你壓一個日期沒關係壓一個日期三個月內"},{"start":969.246,"end":976.419,"text":"利弊分析提供給利弊分析之外要告訴大家說怎麼做啦好不好具體的做法啦好不好具體的做法啦謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:23:55.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:23:57.413000+08:00","text":"主席好，麻煩請教育部長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T12:23:57.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:24:04.995000+08:00","text":"好，有請鄭部長。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:24:04.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:24:05.215000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:24:05.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:24:05.795000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:24:06.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:24:14.057000+08:00","text":"因為今天大家討論教師法，其實最終目的，我覺得還是要給老師一定的尊重，要改善對老師不友善的環境。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:24:14.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:24:26.502000+08:00","text":"剛剛大家都談很多，現在少子化真的非常嚴重，我真的希望教育部可以很正視這個問題，因為教育是國家的根本，如果連老師都不願意投入這個工作的話，以後誰來教育學生？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:24:27.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:24:28.744000+08:00","text":"這其實是雙輸的局面。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:24:29.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:24:39.332000+08:00","text":"教育部常常講地方怎麼樣，地方怎麼樣，但教育部總是教育的最高單位，大家希望你多做一些事情，包括我們都希望跟你一起來討論，看怎麼樣讓教育更好。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:24:40.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:25:08.650000+08:00","text":"我昨天總質詢也跟卓榮泰院長跟部長很深入地討論有關於校園安全問題，基本上我覺得校園安全這個議題，也會影響到老師願不願意留在這個職場的動機，就像昨天卓榮泰院長，我也是很感謝他，他有肯定我因為想要解決校園安全的問題，所以提了一個「安心上學法案」，針對那些常常帶蝴蝶刀上課啊！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:25:11.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:25:13.334000+08:00","text":"有疑慮他也可能拿刀刺人的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:25:13.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:25:14.975000+08:00","text":"或者是拿鋁棒敲人的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:25:15.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:25:32.848000+08:00","text":"這種背後有乾哥、乾姐的學生，希望能夠由教育部設立一個專屬的學校，然後由一些很有理念的專業團體來設立，比如說以人為本，比如說愛的教育、正向管教，讓原本的學校師生可以得到喘息，好好讀書。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:25:33.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:25:48.343000+08:00","text":"昨天院長說他有認同我這個大方向，不過昨天院長講了一句話，在網路上有一些老師也有意見，因為院長說如果遇到那些會帶刀上課的學生，老師跟行政人員就要有所處置啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:25:48.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:25:56.951000+08:00","text":"但是他講這句話是完全不瞭解教學現場，因為在現在的教學情況之下，你說一般的行政人員跟老師面對這種學生，他要怎麼處理？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:25:57.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:25:58.213000+08:00","text":"他沒有能力處理啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:25:58.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:26:02.963000+08:00","text":"所以教育部針對這件事情我覺得要提出一個方案來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:26:04.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:26:10.808000+08:00","text":"既然院長有肯定我的立法方向，接下來的細節部分，我們是不是可以真的非常認真來討論？","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:26:11.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:26:27.578000+08:00","text":"我們上次有開過公聽會，但是部長沒有來，是不是可以找一個時間請部長，然後部長可以找一些相關的人，我們一起，不一定要利用委員會的時間，我們可以很認真地討論一下細節，因為它可能牽涉到比較深入的討論，我不知道部長願意嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:26:29.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:26:43.260000+08:00","text":"怎麼樣讓學校更友善、更安全，讓老師教學能夠安心，學生學習放心，家長也能夠放心小孩子在學校學習，我想這個方向我們是一定願意來努力的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:26:46.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:26:49.786000+08:00","text":"但你沒有回答我的問題，我是說既然院長有肯定我們的立法方向，那我們就……","quality":0.677},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:26:49.786000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:26:50.786000+08:00","text":"沒有，就是委員剛才所提的方向，這樣的方向，然後我們再來討論，這是可以的，這當然是OK的。","quality":0.079},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:26:49.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:26:50.207000+08:00","text":"我們找一個時間來討論一下細節，因為委員會質詢時間也不多啦！","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:26:50.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:26:50.727000+08:00","text":"也沒有辦法很認真進入細節，我是說約你，我們再找一個時間來討論。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:26:50.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:26:51.067000+08:00","text":"是，確實細節要有另外的時間充分討論。對。","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:27:07.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:27:15.983000+08:00","text":"我來提一下，因為我在上個會期有提到一件事情，也是跟老師的待遇跟尊重老師有關的。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:27:16.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:27:24.545000+08:00","text":"我先肯定一下教育部，把老師的鐘點費提高了，這個是肯定，當然這是第一步，我們覺得不夠，還可以再多一點，可是至少已經跨出第一步。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:27:25.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:27:40.512000+08:00","text":"但是它反映了一個狀況，學校的老師如果不是導師也不是行政人員，他也不是鐘點老師的話，其實對這些老師來講，教育部現在的做法對他們來說是沒有差的，反而讓他們多付出，為什麼呢？","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:27:40.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:27:45.636000+08:00","text":"因為他們如果請假，一般老師請假的代課費用是老師自己出嘛！","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:27:48.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:28:01.027000+08:00","text":"他出的代課費用反而提高，所以像一群比如說他可能是科任老師，在教育部這一波的待遇調整他們其實沒有受惠，反而多付出。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:28:01.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:28:04.089000+08:00","text":"部長，這個我跟你提過，不知道您還記得嗎？有。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:28:05.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:28:05.326000+08:00","text":"記得嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:28:07.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:28:10.211000+08:00","text":"當時我是不知道教育部要怎麼去解決這個問題啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:28:10.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:28:17.178000+08:00","text":"針對我剛剛提到那一群老師，我有提一個建議，我說不然的話，是不是可以減老師的鐘點開始做起？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:28:17.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:28:38.035000+08:00","text":"因為現在國小是20個鐘點，國中18鐘點，高中16鐘點，如果讓所有的老師都可以減2個鐘點的話，第一個，因為108課綱的關係，老師其實負擔也滿重的，那讓他減鐘點，如果他願意減鐘點，他可以多一點時間去備課或去跟學生相處、教學之類的。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:28:38.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:28:44.239000+08:00","text":"第二個，當然部長可能會說減鐘點的話，其他的課誰要來教？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:28:44.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:29:07.538000+08:00","text":"如果找得到就可以讓其他人來教，如果找不到的話，因為減了鐘點之後，假設由原來的校內老師來上這些課，這些老師就可以得到額外的鐘點費，他如果得到額外的鐘點費，這一次教育部調漲的鐘點費對他來說就有幫助，等於是有點變相加薪啦！","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:29:08.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:29:32.566000+08:00","text":"我上個會期提的時候，已經隔很多個月，當時我跟部長講其實幫你算過了，全國大概增加二十幾億，這個錢對教育部來說真的不是大錢，可是你至少可以讓老師得到基本的尊重，而且讓所有的老師，不管他是不是導師，或者是行政人員，都可以在薪資上面增加一些，其實也增加不多，但就是有增加到嘛！","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:29:34.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:29:40.754000+08:00","text":"那時候部長好像是說要研議一下，有好幾個月了，不知道部長研議得怎麼樣？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:29:41.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:29:44.117000+08:00","text":"它涉及地方的教育權限，地方自治的一個權限。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:29:44.117000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:29:45.117000+08:00","text":"不會啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:29:45.117000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:29:46.117000+08:00","text":"你去談啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:29:45.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:29:45.659000+08:00","text":"國民教育裡邊，所以……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:29:45.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:29:46.379000+08:00","text":"沒有，部長，對不起，我要跟你溝通一個觀念喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:29:50.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:00.875000+08:00","text":"雖然國民教育牽涉到地方，但教育部是最高的主管機關，我今天來這邊跟你討論，如果你認為做這件事情對教育有幫助，你教育部可以跟地方去談啊！","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:01.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:01.656000+08:00","text":"那你開會了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:01.656000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:02.656000+08:00","text":"對，所以我要跟委員講，我們會跟地方……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:01.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:01.916000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，我已經講幾個月了嘛！","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:01.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:02.296000+08:00","text":"那你去找了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:02.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:02.676000+08:00","text":"你找了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:02.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:02.696000+08:00","text":"會議紀錄給我啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:09.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:11.140000+08:00","text":"這是上個會期跟您說的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:11.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:20.107000+08:00","text":"如果每一次跟你說，你提的都是說那是地方的事，然後沒有任何的動作，所以教育都跟你無關嗎？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:20.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:21.768000+08:00","text":"能推就推嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:21.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:23.089000+08:00","text":"這幾個月前就跟你講了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:23.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:25.471000+08:00","text":"你說這是地方的事，請問一下，教育部……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:25.471000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:26.471000+08:00","text":"委員，你不要動怒。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:25.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:28.073000+08:00","text":"有沒有找地方政府來討論過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:28.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:28.353000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:28.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:30.075000+08:00","text":"我請國教署署長來說明。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:31.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:43.682000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下，剛剛陳培瑜委員有問到類似您的問題，行政減量的同時，一般老師、科任老師有沒有機會給他加薪，這個有列入我們這一次在4月份跟地方政府談的議題裡面，所以……","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:44.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:46.943000+08:00","text":"不好意思，署長，我上個會期就講了。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:46.943000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:48.143000+08:00","text":"委員，這需要研議。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:48.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:49.604000+08:00","text":"上個會期就講了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:49.604000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:51.644000+08:00","text":"是，委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:51.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:30:53.185000+08:00","text":"其實教育部也可以編這個錢嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:30:54.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:01.389000+08:00","text":"你們對於高教，我上次就講了，高教那時候特別預算送過來就是幾百億，當然我們也都支持高教啊！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:01.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:27.792000+08:00","text":"高教幾百億，你覺得不編這幾百億高教的韌性會有問題，大家今天討論的主題就是怎麼面臨少師化，剛剛那麼多委員都有提到，我這個方案才增加二十幾億，然後可以讓一般的老師，他不兼行政、沒有當導師，也可以透過減鐘點的方式得到一點加薪，全國大概就是二、三十億，然後你就說做不到，這是地方的事。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:28.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:32.414000+08:00","text":"幾個月前跟你們講，你說那是地方，那你也沒有找地方啊！","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:33.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:34.736000+08:00","text":"這是全國的嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:35.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:36.997000+08:00","text":"減鐘點難道是臺北市的事嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:36.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:37.897000+08:00","text":"是新北市的事嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:37.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:39.158000+08:00","text":"要減當然全國一起減啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:39.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:42.660000+08:00","text":"這個也是可以全國一體適用，為什麼教育部不願意呢？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:43.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:44.281000+08:00","text":"所以委員……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:44.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:44.501000+08:00","text":"我問部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:45.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:49.418000+08:00","text":"沒有，委員，到底要減幾個鐘點……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:49.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:50.038000+08:00","text":"2個鐘點，我剛剛講了嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:50.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:51.899000+08:00","text":"這個跟地方，當然我們還是希望做……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:52.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:54.880000+08:00","text":"那請問一下，你去跟他們討論沒？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:56.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:31:58.742000+08:00","text":"剛才署長已經有跟你報告，我們4月已經把這個議題……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:31:59.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:08.251000+08:00","text":"你說4月，我是上個會期講的，你那時候說要研議，結果現在因為我來這邊問了，所以你跟我說4月，那我沒有問不就8月啦！","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:08.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:10.012000+08:00","text":"我這邊沒有問就12月啦！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:10.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:11.852000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，你不要大聲啦！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:12.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:14.993000+08:00","text":"不是大聲，跟大聲、小聲什麼關係？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:14.993000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:15.993000+08:00","text":"因為你是一個優雅的國會議員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:14.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:20.495000+08:00","text":"那我跟部長報告，你回答問題不要那麼顢頇！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:20.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:20.815000+08:00","text":"我沒有顢頇，我是就事……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:20.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:24.196000+08:00","text":"你如果要來戰態度的話，要戰態度大家一起來戰啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:24.196000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:25.196000+08:00","text":"我就事論事。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:25.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:26.137000+08:00","text":"我也是就事論事！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:26.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:29.798000+08:00","text":"我們尊重地方，也跟地方協調，希望有一個共通的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:29.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:30.598000+08:00","text":"但是你沒有做！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:30.598000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:31.598000+08:00","text":"如果你挑戰我是我們還沒……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:31.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:33.027000+08:00","text":"你到現在為止都沒有做！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:35.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:35.630000+08:00","text":"做得比較慢，不是沒有做。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:35.630000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:36.630000+08:00","text":"做得比較慢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:36.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:39.674000+08:00","text":"是這樣沒有錯啊！好啦！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:39.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:41.656000+08:00","text":"你要來戰態度，我不要大聲啦！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:41.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:42.297000+08:00","text":"那你可不可以積極？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:43.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:43.762000+08:00","text":"可以啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:43.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:46.385000+08:00","text":"你可以做一個積極的教育部長嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:46.385000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:47.385000+08:00","text":"我本來就很……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:46.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:51.349000+08:00","text":"你可以做一個面對問題、解決問題，然後針對教育困境提出方案的部長嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:51.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:54.012000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我是一個非常積極的教育部長。喔！","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:54.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:56.474000+08:00","text":"是，真的自我感覺良好。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:57.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:32:57.876000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我可不可以補充一下？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T12:32:58.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:33:05.903000+08:00","text":"因為您那時候提的時候，我們用12月31日那個方案已經先做了一波，現在地方政府要連續……","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:33:05.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:33:06.884000+08:00","text":"12月31日是什麼方案？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T12:33:07.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:33:07.505000+08:00","text":"加了那3項加薪，因為花……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:33:09.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:33:25.123000+08:00","text":"我是上個會期提出來，因為3項加薪衍生出來的問題就是一般老師的代課費用增加，如果他不是行政職、不是導師，等於這一波加薪對他沒有幫助，反而付出更多成本，這個是上個會期講的，不是12月底的方案。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T12:33:25.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:33:53.991000+08:00","text":"委員，我們是12月底宣布那個方案，所以您提的時候不是因應那個3項加薪，3項加薪是在1月份您又再跟我提到能不能夠也考慮，我跟委員回報說這個因為涉及到地方政府，容我在最近一次通盤性的研議中一起來規劃，因為剛剛委員講的減2節，地方政府在12月已經花了大概21億，是不是容我再跟地方政府溝通？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T12:33:54.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:33:54.651000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:33:54.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:33:55.252000+08:00","text":"好，什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:33:56.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:33:57.872000+08:00","text":"我們訂一個日期出來，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T12:33:57.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:33:59.433000+08:00","text":"剛剛有講到，4月中以前我們會開……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:33:59.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:34:01.413000+08:00","text":"4月中會完成溝通，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-04-01T12:34:01.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:34:22.317000+08:00","text":"會完成第一次溝通，因為這會涉及到5項方案，剛剛跟陳培瑜委員講到5項，其中有含一項您提到的這一類，要不要用減鐘這一類思考讓老師行政減量，這恐怕沒有辦法減，但有一點實質加薪，這些都是我們的規劃，可是時序上跟委員再補充一下，剛剛的時序就是這個樣子，謝謝。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:34:22.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:34:23.257000+08:00","text":"4月是不是？對。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:34:25.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:34:28.599000+08:00","text":"好，那到時候我4月再來問。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:34:28.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:34:37.301000+08:00","text":"再來，我再請教一下，因為最近學測開始放榜，我這邊有接到一些學生的抱怨，也反映給部長、署長知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:34:39.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:34:44.082000+08:00","text":"如果用學測要申請入學，是不是要準備學習歷程檔案？對吧？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:34:44.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:34:45.583000+08:00","text":"要準備學習歷程檔案。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:34:46.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:35:12.321000+08:00","text":"結果有學生學測其實考得也不錯，但是因為有些學校要入學它有個門檻，比如說國文加社會要達到幾分，或者是哪一科加哪一科要幾分，可能有時候就差一分、兩分，他就沒有辦法去申請他理想的學校，但是他的學習歷程檔案已經做一大堆，所以學生就在抱怨，既然我沒有資格、沒有機會去申請這些學校，為什麼要做這些學習歷程檔案呢？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:35:13.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:35:29.855000+08:00","text":"以前在108課綱之前的做法是說，申請學校就是你如果達到申請那一間學校的標準的時候，給你幾個月讓你去準備備審資料，以前的做法是這樣，可是後來把它改成……有一些可能教育專家吧！","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:35:30.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:35:42.326000+08:00","text":"認為這樣學生的壓力太大，他在兩、三個月之內就要準備那麼多資料，乾脆讓他高一就開始，結果反而造成我剛剛講的那個狀況。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:35:42.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:35:55.276000+08:00","text":"我再提一個數據，我相信教育部應該很清楚，學習歷程檔案現在大家越來越不想交，根據最新的數據，學習成果未提交的比例都接近5成了，在高一的時候，高一喔！","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:35:55.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:36:02.362000+08:00","text":"高一應該還是比較聽話的時候，剛進到這個環境還願意配合體制，到高三可能七成多不想交啊！","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:36:03.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:36:09.965000+08:00","text":"所以這個學習歷程檔案真的是到了應該檢討的時候，是不是真的有必要讓學生做這件事情？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:36:10.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:36:22.010000+08:00","text":"不僅很多人覺得他白費時間，願意準備的人白費時間，然後很多人乾脆不理，那請問一下，這個有達到當初你想要做學習歷程檔案的目的嗎？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:36:22.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:36:24.597000+08:00","text":"部長，其實這個跟你也沒關係啦！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:36:26.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:36:36.459000+08:00","text":"我覺得大家也要就事論事，因為這個不是你推的，但是既然你在這個位置上面，假設其他人推的東西遇到了問題，是不是由你來解決？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:36:36.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:36:37.460000+08:00","text":"那你也是功德一件嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:36:39.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:36:53.933000+08:00","text":"確實我們現在也看到因為少子化以後，大學的供給量遠大於需求量，所以有一定的程度，委員剛才也提到了，他不需要靠學習歷程檔案就可以進入大學。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:36:54.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:37:10.540000+08:00","text":"我們現在已經責成大學入學考試委員會跟高中端，針對學習歷程檔案在政策上做認真的討論，看到底要有怎麼樣的因應，與時俱進的一個方法。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:37:10.540000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:37:11.540000+08:00","text":"什麼意思？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:37:11.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:37:37.701000+08:00","text":"簡單來講，譬如說有一些大學，事實上它不管是申請入學或者特殊選才或者繁星，它已經不需要用到，或者有一些大學需要真正去看學生的學習歷程檔案，我們還是希望認真地思考這個學習歷程檔案對他們選才跟學生未來發展上的價值性。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:37:39.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:37:45.065000+08:00","text":"好，部長，因為現在是多元入學，有的入學方式本來就不用學習歷程檔案，比如說你考分科就不用學習歷程檔案啊！","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:37:45.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:37:46.045000+08:00","text":"但是我們現在學習歷程檔案也……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:37:47.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:37:51.288000+08:00","text":"我現在是針對申請入學的部分，學測加上學習歷程檔案的部分嘛！是。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:37:52.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:37:55.210000+08:00","text":"這個部分很多人認為也不需要嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:37:56.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:38:00.013000+08:00","text":"還有你會造成學生的負擔，他高一、高二就開始做……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:38:00.013000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:38:01.013000+08:00","text":"我們確實現在已經請他們去研議。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:38:00.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:38:04.496000+08:00","text":"高一、高二就開始做，結果他因為學測沒考好，全部都白做啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:38:05.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:38:06.317000+08:00","text":"為什麼不能恢復像以前一樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:38:07.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:38:11.500000+08:00","text":"他要申請再準備備審資料就好，為什麼要強迫他們高一、高二就要做？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:38:12.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:38:21.167000+08:00","text":"當然你們會講高一、高二就來做的話，可以什麼自主探索，那有沒有去評估一下它的成效呢？","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:38:22.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:38:24.129000+08:00","text":"這個其實也有對老師增加負擔嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:38:24.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:38:26.531000+08:00","text":"因為學生要做、要上傳，老師也要看。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:38:27.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:38:38.878000+08:00","text":"如果一件事情大家都認為它沒有達到你當初設定的目標，反而製造一些困擾的時候，對老師對學生都有困擾的時候，這個東西還有必要持續下去嗎？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:38:38.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:38:39.398000+08:00","text":"我現在是講這件事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-04-01T12:38:39.398000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:38:40.398000+08:00","text":"我們確實現在也在認真思考委員所關心的問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:38:39.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:38:39.998000+08:00","text":"一樣啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:38:40.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:38:51.544000+08:00","text":"這個學習歷程檔案，每次講都說會思考、會研議、會什麼，我們押一個日期，好不好？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:38:51.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:39:00.390000+08:00","text":"你可以在什麼時間點把你們的決定或者是怎麼改良，要繼續還是怎麼做，給大家一個報告，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖司長高賢","start":"2026-04-01T12:39:01.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:39:26.228000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，針對學習歷程檔案，其實我們每個月都有召開剛才部長所說考招連動小組的檢討，但是在裡面還沒有形成一個比較完善的結論，還是有人認為根據108課綱，要讓學生提報所謂的學習歷程檔案，但是也有部分的學者專家就如同委員剛才所說的，認為可以做一些調整和改變，雙方還沒有具體的共識。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"廖司長高賢","start":"2026-04-01T12:39:26.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:39:27.670000+08:00","text":"這個我們會持續地，每個月都會……","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:39:29.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:39:34.776000+08:00","text":"沒有，司長，我們不能等了，這件事情如果要等到全世界的人大家意見都一致的話，可能118課綱都出來了啦！","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:39:37.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:39:39.998000+08:00","text":"你押一個日期就決定嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:39:40.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:39:43.419000+08:00","text":"利大於弊還是怎麼樣就要做一個決定，不是讓它一直拖。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:39:44.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:39:51.042000+08:00","text":"當然你們的感覺都是一動不如一靜，可是現在這個問題就衍生出來，很多人在抱怨，你要做一個決斷嘛！","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:39:51.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:39:55.383000+08:00","text":"你如果認為這個東西好，要繼續，你也跟社會大眾公布一下啊！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:39:55.383000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:39:56.383000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖司長高賢","start":"2026-04-01T12:39:56.383000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:39:57.383000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們是不是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:39:55.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:39:57.004000+08:00","text":"你押一個日期，沒關係啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:39:57.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:39:57.244000+08:00","text":"押一個日期。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖司長高賢","start":"2026-04-01T12:39:57.244000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:39:58.244000+08:00","text":"我們是不是在3個月內把相關的利弊分析提供給委員？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:39:57.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:40:05.995000+08:00","text":"3個月內，利弊分析之外，也要告訴大家怎麼做，好不好？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:40:06.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:40:07.557000+08:00","text":"具體的做法啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:40:07.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:40:07.958000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖司長高賢","start":"2026-04-01T12:40:08.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:40:08.299000+08:00","text":"具體的做法還是要凝聚共識。","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:40:08.299000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:40:09.299000+08:00","text":"具體的做法啦！","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-01T12:40:08.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T12:40:08.419000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席（郭委員昱晴代）","start":"2026-04-01T12:40:08.919000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:40:12.919000+08:00","text":"謝謝葉元之委員，部長、署長請回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（郭委員昱晴代）","start":"2026-04-01T12:40:13.219000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T12:40:16.076143+08:00","text":"接下來有請伍麗華召委。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}