{"error":false,"id":["168176"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168176,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168176","日期":"2026-04-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-01T13:51:29+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-01T14:03:52+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:23","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6ae3a98a11df106cdd154dbddce655497570c8d4d2e9dc78b88717e2a81a321e2920bcfc32d3c7235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"盧縣一","委員發言時間":"13:51:29 - 14:03:52","會議時間":"2026-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、原住民族委員會就「穩定原住民族就業、改善低薪與勞動權益保障，並縮小職業災害發生率及死亡率差距之執行現況與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部就「開放家有十二歲以下子女家庭逕行申請外籍家事移工政策，對本國勞工就業、照顧體系負擔、兒童最佳利益及相關權益保障之衝擊評估與制度配套」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請勞動部、衛生福利部、行政院、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、法務部，就「職場霸凌申訴機制之檢討：以顏慧欣案為例，如何建構員工心理健康與職場保障機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":0.5372187500000001,"end":1.80284375,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":6.544718750000001,"end":10.695968750000002,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":11.016593750000002,"end":13.88534375,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":13.919093750000002,"end":15.25221875,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副署長淑貞","start":13.969718750000002,"end":14.72909375,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":15.640343750000003,"end":16.90596875,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":23.14971875,"end":23.79096875,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":24.68534375,"end":45.087218750000005,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":45.67784375,"end":76.27221875000001,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":76.71096875,"end":84.89534375000001,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳次長明仁","start":85.23284375,"end":182.95596875,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":133.59659375,"end":137.62971875,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":183.04034375,"end":190.63409375,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":190.63409375,"end":222.78096875000003,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":222.88221875000002,"end":225.80159375000002,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":226.34159375000002,"end":236.66909375,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":235.94346875000002,"end":238.47471875000002,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳次長明仁","start":240.16221875000002,"end":272.91659375,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副署長淑貞","start":273.05159375,"end":286.41659375,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副署長淑貞","start":287.56409375000004,"end":293.18346875000003,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":293.14971875000003,"end":294.87096875000003,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副署長淑貞","start":293.92596875000004,"end":297.53721875,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":295.90034375000005,"end":300.03471875,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":300.33846875,"end":303.57846875,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":303.84846875,"end":304.27034375,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副署長淑貞","start":303.93284375,"end":307.22346875,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":306.14346875,"end":306.80159375,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":307.18971875,"end":354.91221875,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳次長明仁","start":355.11471875,"end":396.35721875,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳次長明仁","start":396.61034375,"end":401.36909375000005,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":401.30159375000005,"end":423.49221875,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳次長明仁","start":423.54284375000003,"end":448.82159375000003,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":447.96096875,"end":504.10409375000006,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副署長淑貞","start":466.64159375,"end":467.16471875,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副署長淑貞","start":470.32034375,"end":470.45534375000005,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":504.42471875,"end":529.7878437500001,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":506.02784375000005,"end":506.07846875,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":511.39409375,"end":511.46159375,"speaker_score":0.877},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副署長淑貞","start":511.46159375,"end":511.47846875000005,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副署長淑貞","start":513.30096875,"end":513.6047187500001,"speaker_score":0.747},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能夠去督促那些比較"},{"start":67.602,"end":84.549,"text":"辛苦的這些非典型勞動加保的這些我們的基層勞工我想知道到目前為止我們的為了要催保跟查核我們到底推動哪些政策跟執行的措施現在執行的成效又是什麼"},{"start":85.931,"end":100.383,"text":"第一件事情跟委員報告就是說我們的原住民朋友主要他的勞參率其實比國人還高我要感謝原住民朋友的協助那他主要最大的兩個工作場域一個是製造業一個是服務業"},{"start":101.104,"end":122.019,"text":"製造業的部分因為製造業的工作屬性在過往的情況確實他的職災的發生率會偏高那這部分勞動部大概會採取幾個措施一個部分是我們對於職災發生的原因會去加強職安位的相關的的加強的相關的措施那第二個部分是有關於"},{"start":123.42,"end":138.909,"text":"營造業過往有一些多層承攬或者是分包的狀況我們在這一次承蒙大院的協助我們在職安法的修法也把這一塊做了一個起義的處理第三個部分是有關萬一不幸發生職業災害我們其實在勞工職業災害保險及保護法會有相應的保障那這邊我們一方面會透過"},{"start":147.754,"end":168.515,"text":"官的宣導去鼓勵大家去催促強制納保那另外萬一有一時半刻沒有辦法是長時間的僱用我們也有減便的加保措施那如果退一萬步言真的不幸發生了在植栽保法裡面也有即使沒有納保我們還是有一些基本的保障"},{"start":169.196,"end":190.095,"text":"對於原住民朋友們的保護的部分我們會來持續加強那如果有發生離災不幸離災的狀況也會透過地方的個案的造福的同仁來提供必要的支持不知道原民會有沒有特別去掌握就是說被典型勞動者的那些加保制度我們目前實際使用的人數有多少"},{"start":190.635,"end":205.203,"text":"好 跟委員報告一下那我們在107年開始就跟勞動部有合作有針對那些未納保的部分來去做相關的處理從107年 當時的無勞保人數大概是六萬三千多人113年已經減低到四萬兩千人"},{"start":206.244,"end":225.582,"text":"也是說我們的那個有勞保的人數從73.98到83.478左右那這個也是要謝謝我們勞動部就針對那些5人以上5勞保公司那部分有加強查核那有我們部分呢也配合也做針對4人以下無一定雇主的部分來去做一個宣導以上"},{"start":229.245,"end":236.409,"text":"那我想知道說有沒有裁法或者是說你覺得這個裁法的比例有沒有掌握"},{"start":240.859,"end":263.648,"text":"這邊當然如果只要有工作就應該要加保這是僱主應該承擔的責任那如果僱主沒有加保我們一方面會提供勞工的職災勞工保護法會提供勞工必要的給付同時也會裁罰僱主他應該支付的相應的費用除了罰完之外本來他應該透過保險來給付的這部分我們也會請僱主來負擔"},{"start":265.589,"end":283.023,"text":"相應的部分我們其實都有在一些處理我是不是請我們市長可以就數據的部分跟我們做一個說明跟委員報告就是我們從災保法是111年5月1號開始實施我們對沒有加保的失業單位我們會裁罰2萬到10萬那大概從那個時候到"},{"start":287.608,"end":303.23,"text":"到115年的1月為止一共有10,073件那麼多件但是這個是全體不是原民原民的部分我是希望有一些數據給我們原民的部分再細分出來給我們知道"},{"start":303.951,"end":321.98,"text":"我再看看勞保局能不能把它分開我知道在加重裁法跟嚴格查核這個機制是對當然是全國通用不過我是覺得如果說像我們針對我們原住民的企業可能都是在起步的階段或者是說他確實沒有一些專業的人力來幫他做這些比如說"},{"start":322.68,"end":337.7,"text":"他缺乏法務跟行政的一些量能他缺乏風險辨識的一些專業能力也就是說可能雇主也不知道哪裡危險也還有一些就是他買不起房付或者是外部的這些配備也就是說他缺乏財務的彈性跟資源"},{"start":339.281,"end":354.149,"text":"雖然我們有加重採訪跟嚴格採訪可是就僱主的部分我覺得還是要輔導我們原住民的這些危險的企業者因為本來就做這些事情本來就已經很辛苦可是他們沒有這方面的專業可以加以輔導嗎"},{"start":355.191,"end":380.271,"text":"是這邊沒有問題謝謝委員分成兩個部分來看第一個部分是只要有工作就應該參加職災保險那這部分也有簡便的加保方式可以去做處理那第二個部分是有關於降災防災減災的部分這部分就是有關於在營造業的現場如何避免他職場安全的部分受到危害那主要以前大部分都會"},{"start":380.771,"end":394.668,"text":"碰到的是高空墜落諸如此類的相應的災害那這部分我們洪部長有請治安署針對營造業的防災減災的部分去推動相應的專案那也跟很多的"},{"start":396.95,"end":421.78,"text":"工協會在營造夥伴關係會去持續的去推廣那希望我再看職場減災這個部分我覺得原鄉也沒有被特別拉出來看所以他如果他在全國的一個平均數裡面就看不出他的嚴重性所以這個職場減災的部分我希望有個原住民的KPI就是說原鄉跟原民的企業覆蓋率是多少你們宣導是怎麼做的我覺得應該是還是要具體一點讓我們知道"},{"start":424.282,"end":447.484,"text":"好謝謝這部分我們會分成兩個部分來做第一個部分就是說原民朋友如果在一般的企業裡面我們會透過整個職安位的角度透過全企業的方式來宣導那第二個如果是原鄉或者是原民事業單位比較特殊的情況我們也跟原民會來請教一起來對針對這部分來做出"},{"start":448.164,"end":474.976,"text":"對 因為現在的財法都很高比如300萬到450萬就是說隱匿這些其實就我們的這個我剛才說的微型創業這些他們根本就沒有能力去負擔這些所以我就說既然有這麼高的財法應該有相當程度的一個所謂的輔導跟我們剛才所說的所謂的KPI 減災KPI最後就是針對我們之前有講到促進人主民主就業獎勵計畫這個部分"},{"start":476.937,"end":502.443,"text":"那可能工作到一定的時間可能就獎勵原住民一些他的獎勵可是只有獎勵勞工可是沒有獎勵雇主所以我們之前在12年的6月像會議上面勞動部就代替原住民提案說原民會提案說要補助失業單位促進原住民主就業計畫希望能夠補助雇主的負擔勞保及救保的費用的50%我不知道現在這個執行的狀況如何"},{"start":504.963,"end":531.103,"text":"先跟委員報告那有關就針對原住民促進就業獎勵的計劃部分其實我們是跨部會合作那我們就針對原住民的個人的部分如果是你的薪資超過三而且穩定工作三個月大概就會有三千到一萬左右的不同等級的薪資去做獎勵但是雇主的部分有現有勞動部的計劃就已經有了所以我們這個部分是跨部會有在合作所以現有的就是50%嗎"},{"start":533.786,"end":552.247,"text":"但是補助的那一塊那個還在研議中所以已經從12年到現在已經三年了還在研議所以我們現在就是用促進就會獎勵計畫這個部分先做我們可以做的部分那我希望那勞動部主責嗎還是你們主責"},{"start":553.548,"end":573.453,"text":"我們研究個人的部分我們這邊會來處理但是我們也會用跨部而且我們每半夜也都跟勞動部做一次的一個研究業方面的一個平台的一個聯絡會議我是希望一個具體的一個財務評估適用條件跟上路的時程不然我們的雇主其實也是很辛苦可以嗎好 謝謝"},{"start":575.873,"end":600.861,"text":"最後一個問題是關於那個我們因為大家都講到那個時候所以我就講我們75歲那個免巴士量表的部分那還是勤務服部還有勞動部還有我們運營會因為我之前找過分別找過各單位來談結果大家都互相貼來貼去我很想知道說到底這個75歲免巴士量表是哪一個單位要主責"},{"start":603.468,"end":616.426,"text":"跟委員報告大院在修正就業保險就業服務法的時候80歲以上是免巴士量所以我們當時跟衛務部在整個的相應的措施裡面"},{"start":618.228,"end":646.51,"text":"不會去協調合作去讓他順利的實施也沒有排擠到重症家庭的需求至於委員所提到說原住民朋友的部分是不是75歲以上就可以免巴氏量表我跟委員報告在目前的狀況底下原住民朋友在70歲75歲到80歲這部分其實他有相關如果萬一不幸有失能情況相關的照顧其實現在絕大部分都已經可以走到多元免貧了"},{"start":647.851,"end":672.939,"text":"唯一如果說他沒有達到失能的狀況而要去放寬免巴士量表的話那這部分恐怕現階段還需要再做審慎的討論但是我要強調說原住民朋友在70歲以上如果他有失能的狀況需要協助照顧在現階段都已經多元免貧絕大部分在多元免貧就可以得到協助"},{"start":673.539,"end":700.092,"text":"那好那我知道這個就是說多元免貧可能協助大部分可是我是希望羅處長這邊園民會能不能掌握75歲的長者我們原住民的確實有這個需求的可不可以在近期之內調查出來或者是說你們覺得有沒有一個替代比如說今天做不到這些過度的配套是不是由衛生所或者巡迴醫療或者是長照評估就可以拿到這些他應該要有的這個量表而不是要又要派車去"},{"start":701.612,"end":717.607,"text":"帶長者去醫院然後再去做一個巴車因為現在他說還沒有一個可行方案嘛75歲以上免巴車量表他還是要巴車量表嘛萬一他需要這個的話能不能有地區的也就是衛生所跟我們在地的診所就可以不然那個週車勞頓真的問了一張紙"},{"start":720.97,"end":745.301,"text":"很辛苦有那個衛福部有新公告的一個就是在針對那個多元的那個評估的方式這個已經有相關的有相關規定出來了那75歲以上的長者確實需要的我覺得也可以去掌握數據我們也試著幫您看看OK 好 謝謝好 謝謝謝映映召委的發言也謝謝各位官員的答詢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:51:29.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:51:35.735000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請陳次長及原民會羅處長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T13:51:35.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:51:35.916000+08:00","text":"請陳次長及羅處長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T13:51:35.916000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T13:51:44.805500+08:00","text":"盧委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:51:44.805500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T13:51:53.695000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:51:53.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:52:41.524000+08:00","text":"我們原住民的工作類型真的是比較辛苦，大概是從事營造業，一些非典型勞動的比例比較高，所以都是暴露在高風險、低保障的勞動環境當中，所以本席在多次的質詢裡面都有提到我的請求，也謝謝勞動部有提供一些資料，我們先來看一下死亡職災的部分，在113年到114年10月有34件，因為工地承攬停工的案件大概有62件，我想知道的是，我們一直說要確保我們的權益，然後希望能夠去督促那些比較辛苦的、非典型勞動加保的基層勞工。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:52:41.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:52:51.128000+08:00","text":"我想知道，到目前為止為了要催保跟查核，我們到底推動哪些政策跟執行措施？","quality":1},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:52:51.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:52:53.409000+08:00","text":"現在的執行成效又是如何？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T13:52:54.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:53:42.446000+08:00","text":"第一件事情跟委員報告，我們原住民朋友的主要勞參率其實比國人還高，我也要感謝原住民朋友的協助，主要最大的兩個工作場域分別是製造業跟服務業，在製造業的部分，因為製造業的工作屬性，過往的情況確實職災的發生率會偏高，這個部分勞動部大概會採取幾個措施：第一個是對於職災發生的原因，會去加強職安衛的相關措施；第二個是有關於營造業的部分，過往有一些多層承攬或者是分包狀況，這一次承蒙大院的協助，我們在職安法的修法也把這一塊做了一個齊一的處理。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:53:42.446000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T13:53:43.446000+08:00","text":"不好意思，次長，因為時間關係……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T13:53:42.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:54:00.979000+08:00","text":"第三個部分是有關於萬一不幸發生職業災害，我們在勞工職業災害保險及保護法會有相應的保障，我們一方面會透過相關宣導去鼓勵、催促強制納保。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T13:54:01.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:54:31.728000+08:00","text":"另外，萬一有一時半刻沒有辦法長時間的僱用，我們也有簡便的加保措施，如果退一萬步言，真的不幸發生了，在災保法裡面也有，即使沒有納保，我們還是有一些基本的保障，對原住民朋友們的保護部分，我們會來持續加強，如果有發生不幸罹災的狀況，我們也會透過地方的個案照服同仁來提供必要的支持。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:54:32.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:54:39.075000+08:00","text":"原民會有沒有特別去掌握非典型勞動者的那些加保制度，我們目前實際使用的人數有多少？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"羅赫踛Helu Chiu處長","start":"2026-04-01T13:54:40.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:55:14.562000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們從107年開始就跟勞動部有合作，針對那些未納保的部分去做相關處理，107年當時的無勞保人數大概是六十六萬三千多人，113年已經減低到4萬2,000人，也就是說，我們有勞保的人數從73.98到83.478左右，這個也是要謝謝我們勞動部有針對那些5人以上無勞保公司的部分去加強查核，我們也配合針對4人以下無一定雇主的部分去做一個宣導。以上。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:55:14.562000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T13:55:18.385000+08:00","text":"你說未投保的人數還有四萬多，是嗎？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:55:18.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:55:25.389000+08:00","text":"我想知道有沒有裁罰，或者是說你有沒有掌握裁罰的比例？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅赫踛Helu Chiu處長","start":"2026-04-01T13:55:25.389000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T13:55:31.460000+08:00","text":"裁罰比例可能要問勞動部這邊。","quality":0.154},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T13:55:31.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:55:57.331000+08:00","text":"只要有工作就應該要加保，這是雇主應該承擔的責任，如果雇主沒有加保，一方面職災勞工保護法會提供勞工必要的給付，同時也會裁罰雇主應該支付的相應費用，除了罰鍰之外，本來他應該透過保險來給付的這部分，我們也會請雇主來負擔，所以相應的部分，我們其實都有在處理了。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T13:55:57.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:56:01.555000+08:00","text":"我是不是請司長可以就數據的部分跟您做一個說明？OK。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳司長美女","start":"2026-04-01T13:56:02.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:56:21.936000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們的災保法是111年5月1號開始實施，我們對沒有加保的事業單位會裁罰2萬到10萬，從那個時候115年1月為止，一共有1萬73件。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:56:22.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:56:22.697000+08:00","text":"那麼多件！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳司長美女","start":"2026-04-01T13:56:23.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:56:25.441000+08:00","text":"但是這個是全體的，不是原民的部分。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:56:26.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:56:32.210000+08:00","text":"針對原民的部分，我是希望有一些數據給我們，把原民的部分再細分出來給我們知道，可以嗎？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"陳司長美女","start":"2026-04-01T13:56:32.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:56:36.233000+08:00","text":"好，我再看看勞保局能不能把它分開。OK。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:56:36.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:57:23.149000+08:00","text":"我知道加重裁罰跟嚴格查核這個機制當然是全國通用，不過我是覺得，針對我們原住民的企業可能都是在起步的階段或者是說確實沒有一些專業的人力來幫他做這些，比如說，他缺乏法務跟行政的量能、他缺乏風險辨識的專業能力，也就是說，可能雇主也不知道哪裡危險，還有一些是他買不起防護或者是外部的這些配備，也就是缺乏財務的彈性跟資源，所以雖然我們有加重裁罰跟嚴格查核，可是就雇主的部分，我覺得還是要輔導這些原住民的微型企業者，因為做這些事情本來就已經很辛苦，可是他們沒有這方面的專業，可以加以輔導嗎？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T13:57:24.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:58:10.612000+08:00","text":"是，這邊沒有問題，謝謝委員，這分成兩個部分來看：第一個部分是只要有工作就應該參加職災保險，這部分也有簡便的加保方式可以去做處理；第二個部分是有關於降災、防災、減災的部分，這部分就有關於在營造業的現場如何去避免他們在職場安全的部分受到危害，以前大部分會碰到的是高空墜落，諸如此類的相應災害，這部分我們洪部長有請職安署針對營造業的防災、減災部分去推動相應專案，也跟很多的公協會在做營造夥伴關係，會持續的去推廣。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:58:10.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:58:27.299000+08:00","text":"OK，現在我們再來看職場減災的部分，我覺得原鄉也沒有被特別拉出來看，如果混在全國的平均數裡面就看不出它的嚴重性，所以職場減災的部分，我希望有個原住民的KPI，也就是說，原鄉跟原民的企業覆蓋率是多少？","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:58:27.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:58:29.080000+08:00","text":"你們的宣導是怎麼做的？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:58:29.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:58:30.760000+08:00","text":"我覺得應該還是要具體一點，讓我們知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T13:58:33.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:58:56.243000+08:00","text":"謝謝，這部分我們會分成兩個部分來做，第一個部分，原民朋友如果在一般的企業裡面，我們會透過整個職安衛的角度、透過全企業的方式來宣導；第二個，如果是原鄉或者是原民事業單位比較特殊的情況，我們也跟原民會來請教，一起針對這部分來做處理。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:58:57.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:59:18.834000+08:00","text":"對，因為現在的裁罰都很高，比如說300萬到450萬，也就是如有隱匿等行為，其實裡面就有我剛才說的微型創業，他們根本就沒有能力去負擔這些，既然有這麼高的裁罰，也應該有相當程度的輔導跟我剛剛所說的減災KPI。是。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T13:59:19.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T13:59:51.423000+08:00","text":"最後就是針對之前有講到的促進原住民族就業獎勵計畫部分，可能工作達到一定時間就會給予獎勵，但只有獎勵勞工而沒有獎勵雇主，所以我們之前在112年6月份的會議中，勞動部就代替原民會提案，要補助事業單位促進原住民族就業計畫，希望能夠補助雇主負擔投保就保費用的50%，不知道現在這個部分執行的狀況如何？","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"羅赫踛Helu Chiu處長","start":"2026-04-01T13:59:53.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:00:18.422000+08:00","text":"先跟委員報告，有關原住民促進就業獎勵計畫的部分，其實我們是跨部會合作，針對原住民個人部分，穩定工作超過三個月，大概就會有3,000到1,0000左右不同等級的薪資獎勵；雇主的部分，勞動部現有的計畫就已經有了，所以我們在這個部分是跨部會在合作。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:00:18.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:00:20.103000+08:00","text":"所以現有的就是50% 嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅赫踛Helu Chiu處長","start":"2026-04-01T14:00:23.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:00:25.028000+08:00","text":"補助的那一塊還在研議中，但是……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:00:25.028000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T14:00:28.072000+08:00","text":"還在研議中？對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:00:28.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:00:30.915000+08:00","text":"從112年到現在已經3年了，還在研議？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅赫踛Helu Chiu處長","start":"2026-04-01T14:00:30.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:00:37.403000+08:00","text":"對，所以，我們現在是用促進就業獎勵計畫的這個部分，先做我們可以做的部分。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:00:40.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:00:41.247000+08:00","text":"是勞動部主責，還是你們主責？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅赫踛Helu Chiu處長","start":"2026-04-01T14:00:43.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:00:45.689000+08:00","text":"原住民個人的部分，我們這邊會來處理，但是……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:00:45.689000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T14:00:46.689000+08:00","text":"雇主的部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅赫踛Helu Chiu處長","start":"2026-04-01T14:00:46.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:00:54.091000+08:00","text":"我們也會用跨部會，而且我們每半年也都會跟勞動部就原住民就業方面進行平臺式的聯絡會議。","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:00:54.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:01:01.312000+08:00","text":"我希望有一個具體的財務評估適用條件跟上路的時程，因為我們這些雇主其實也是很辛苦。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:01:02.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:01:02.433000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅赫踛Helu Chiu處長","start":"2026-04-01T14:01:02.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:01:02.453000+08:00","text":"好，了解。謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:01:04.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:01:17.637000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題，就是大家都講12歲以下的那個部分，我要講的是75歲免巴氏量表的部分，要請教衛福部、勞動部，還有原民會。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:01:17.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:01:29.861000+08:00","text":"因為我之前也分別找過各單位來談，結果大家都互相推來推去，我很想知道75歲原住民免巴氏量表是哪一個單位要主責？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T14:01:32.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:01:39.318000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，大院在修正就業服務法的時候，80歲以上是免巴氏量表……對。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T14:01:40.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:01:53.173000+08:00","text":"所以我們當時跟衛福部在整個相應措施裡面，做部會溝通協調合作時候，也都讓它順利的實施，沒有排擠到重症家庭的需求。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T14:01:53.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:02:00.558000+08:00","text":"至於委員提到原住民朋友的部分，是不是75歲以上就可以免巴氏量表？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T14:02:00.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:02:15.490000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，在目前的狀況下，原住民朋友在70歲、75歲到80歲的這個部分，萬一不幸有失能情況，相關的照顧，其實現在絕大部分都已經可以走到多元免評了。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T14:02:17.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:02:30.935000+08:00","text":"如果他沒有達到失能的狀況，而要去放寬免巴氏量表的話，現階段恐怕需要再做審慎的討論。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"陳次長明仁","start":"2026-04-01T14:02:31.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:02:41.919000+08:00","text":"我要強調的是，原住民朋友在70歲以上，如果他有失能的狀況，需要協助照顧，現階段都已經多元免評，絕大部分在多元免評之下，都可以得到協助。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:02:43.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:02:55.945000+08:00","text":"我知道多元免評可能協助大部分；不過，我還是希望羅處長在原民會這邊，能不能確實掌握有這個需求的75歲原住民朋友，可不可以在近期內調查出來？","quality":0.738},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:02:55.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:03:18.219000+08:00","text":"或是你們有沒有一個替代方案，如果今天做不到，這些過渡的配套是不是由衛生所或巡迴醫療或長照評估就可以拿到他應該要有的這個量表，而不是派車帶長者去醫院，然後再去做這個量表，因為現在對75歲以上免巴氏量表的部分還沒有一個可行方案，他們還是需巴氏量表嘛！","quality":0.807},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:03:18.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:03:25.166000+08:00","text":"萬一他需要這個，能不能由地區的衛生所或我們在地的診所開具證明就可以？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:03:25.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:03:30.390000+08:00","text":"不然，為了一張紙而舟車勞頓真的很辛苦。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"羅赫踛Helu Chiu處長","start":"2026-04-01T14:03:31.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:03:41.355000+08:00","text":"衛福部有一個新的公告，就是在針對那個多元評估的方式，已經有相關規定出來了。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:03:42.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:03:45.697000+08:00","text":"75歲以上長者確實需要的，我覺得也可以去掌握相關的數據。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅赫踛Helu Chiu處長","start":"2026-04-01T14:03:45.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:03:46.877000+08:00","text":"我們也來討論看看。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-01T14:03:47.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:03:47.678000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席（盧委員縣一）","start":"2026-04-01T14:03:52.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T14:03:54.301000+08:00","text":"現在請鄭天財委員質詢。","quality":0.3}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}