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你自從上任之後呢其實對這個學界也是愛之深責之切不過你現在很顯然是三罵學界那當然可以 我們來看一下第一個你認為花這麼多錢沒有諾貝爾得助很丟臉"},{"start":24.801,"end":51.749,"text":"第二个呢你说像目前的陆文达就是看他的数量案件记仇也蛮丢脸的第三个呢你认为学术界因为每个人在骂说政府投资资源太少那你认为政府做了很多所以这种说法很看不起我知道那个主委你很想投好球可是以这种说法来说真的就是像抱头一样那你自己也曾经在清大当副校长成大副校长也在南台科大担任校长"},{"start":52.429,"end":79.98,"text":"在当行政主管的时候你其实有权利来做这些的改变那你觉得那个时候你的学校有没有这些的规项有在我任内都有改变你在的时候都有改变所以说呢你到目前为止接任国科会的时候面对这些问题来说的话你又做了哪一些的改变跟成效你认为你讲的这些话里面对于学术界里面有一些的微词你有需要做一些修正吗"},{"start":81.985,"end":102.296,"text":"這個方向還是一樣那國科會已經做了很多的改變我們在所有的這個計畫的申請獎勵的評量等等我們是依照這個方向什麼樣的方向你是說標論目前還是說你是標去寫太多的論文的數量不考慮數量考慮質量我從來沒有講過不要寫太多論文"},{"start":105.848,"end":132.689,"text":"不是用论文的数量来评量老师的成就所以不要扭曲我的意思我从来没有说不要写太多论文 从来没有讲我也没有说你说不要写太多论文你刚刚讲了我刚刚讲说 拜托我刚刚讲说是隐居你的说法很多论文上论见忌仇 实在丢脸诸位 我是引用你的说法"},{"start":133.069,"end":151.314,"text":"我也试图让你有澄清希望人家不要去扭曲你的意思这个事情我是绝对反对的我当然也反对啊但是我只是来告诉我们不要正面这个我只是告诉你说目前学界对于你这样的一个说法丢脸这个说法他们是有意见的我只是告诉你连我也丢脸不是只有他"},{"start":152.094,"end":173.506,"text":"所以你现在已经到了一个学界的程度里面我们就来看一下这个部分来说以基础科学来说完全同意你的这个部分来到我们一直强调基础研究是非常的重要基础研究跟应用研究跟技术发展来说的话基础研究其实在这个比例上面其实还是低于其他两个这个层面"},{"start":174.329,"end":191.672,"text":"那很多人我们基础研究我们台湾的学者的数量是在减少的是我们的经费年年在增加所以每个人平均得到的研发的经费都在增加当中那目前为止论的数目不断在减少你觉得这个问题在哪里"},{"start":192.233,"end":208.21,"text":"是人口在减少啊还是我们对基础研究投入的这个学者专家会越来越少因为整个国家的政策对于所谓的技术还有对应用科学里面来说他们认为可以获得的比率比较高会不会是因为这个缘故"},{"start":209.062,"end":232.625,"text":"我們的學者平均得到的計畫補助的件數在提高得到的計畫每個計畫補助的金額都在提高當中但是我們的博士生在減少委員都知道了所以我們未來在這基礎研究部分裡面有沒有辦法跟其他應用或在這個跟所謂的技術的層面裡面等量其關這是我們要的因為我們都認為基礎研究是一切研究的一個基礎"},{"start":233.186,"end":251.175,"text":"我們只是不想讓他這個論文書不但在減少的過程當中讓投入基礎研究的人會越來越少這是本席質疑的重點我覺得主委我剛說是抱頭我現在是試圖讓你有一個可以澄清的一個機會不要扭曲我的想法同樣都是來自一個學界我不會認為你說論文是如何所以說你不要用這樣的態度來面對本席我覺得這不是討論事情的方式我還是強調"},{"start":256.337,"end":272.084,"text":"不能只用论文的数量我也同意啊因为太多学者专家太多太多亲近的人员因为论文数不够让他们在未来学术界当中受到非常大多很多没有办法这点我完全同意啊所以在我任职的学校"},{"start":273.206,"end":289.243,"text":"我盡量再修改辦法用比較公平的評量當然是啊我們也認為應該用多元的評量的方法嘛這個我們得到一個共識嘛我只認為說大家這種這件事情上面不需要再說什麼不斷在評論我是讓你有誠信的你反而誤解我的意思因為他們沒有改我才會講啊他們沒有改什麼"},{"start":289.924,"end":306.018,"text":"改這個憑良的辦法那你現在當國會主委你再給大家做這個部分你改的部分裡面有沒有一直得到所謂成效上面的改進嘛現在就是慢慢引導這個是需要時間的國科會已經改了因為國科會也是以前也曾經使用"},{"start":306.578,"end":330.259,"text":"是五年来之后你如果说是部分你要把过去五年你的paper的产量弄因为你可以加权多少以至于有很多的人在这个过程里面因为过去的学术量不够让他每次申请国科会的时候都受到非常大的阻碍这是事实嘛对不对过去是这样嘛这个评量全部也都是全国的学者一起在互评嘛是啊所以国科会已经把这个规则已经改了我们去年就改了"},{"start":330.879,"end":340.07,"text":"去年嘛 對不對嘛所以我們就來看看嘛你未來這個部分裡面有沒有因為這樣的一個改變讓更多的人來去看待嘛這是我們共同的期待嘛這點共識沒有問題嘛 對不對我們就花時間我們就看看會不會改變"},{"start":345.856,"end":368.106,"text":"所以说大家都知道你要投好球但是很多话讲的太直我觉得这就是个抱头我们来看一下这个第三园区这个有关于我们高雄的部分因为这属于南科的这个范围当中目前来说我们是不是有已经很确定我们的P6台积电的扩敞因为我们看到这个南科有一个扩敞的一个计划很显然很像是P6是要在南子区来建厂嘛"},{"start":369.706,"end":388.833,"text":"P6台積電已經提出它的需求現在高雄市政府也很努力我們都很希望能夠在這個地方但是還是要經過我們二階環評當然是 而且最重要的是我們跟水跟電的問題因為那時候為了要友善環境也符合你剛剛說的永續所以我們希望能夠用到再生水的這個層面"},{"start":389.773,"end":417.191,"text":"但是我们检视一下目前来说整个再生水的这个层面来说平均大概10万CMD嘛那我们也希望高雄市政府也推动的桥头再生水厂的这个层面但是你这样怎么加加减减来说我说实在的这个水如果你在这个P6再进来的话真的是用水上会有很大的一个问题哦以再生水来说的话所以我现在只是问说南科有没有考虑自己能够来盖这个再生水厂"},{"start":417.771,"end":427.637,"text":"報告委員高雄市政府在國會協助之下已經把楠梓的再生水廠也加進來了所以楠梓跟橋頭兩個所以這個水目前來說的話面對P6廠目前這個水量"},{"start":433.84,"end":463.5,"text":"你认为是没有问题然后也不会也不会影响到我们的民生用水吗因为量的那电的部分我们再来看一下因为你可以看得出来台电在过去的时候呢它有供电还有跟需求量这个部分里面他们之前有可是呢在修正完之后目前我没有看到规划用电的需求我没有看到规划因为水跟电是非常重要的所以我们强烈要求这一块也要盯紧因为这一块盯紧的话我们才有办法不然的话没有电目前为止我没有看到这个电的规划"},{"start":463.82,"end":473.291,"text":"沒問題我們對這個部分你一定要來做這樣的一個處理水電的處理大家都希望但是這個水電就重點是不要因為這麼用水用量大度的這個廠影響到民生所以這個要保證絕對是有最後一個我們來問一下有關AI"},{"start":478.857,"end":504.116,"text":"AI的导入我也刚刚也看到了那目前为止我们也经过国际的一个认证包括台湾2号3号跟创建1号目前为止我们在有关于这个建构的大共同的模型算力基础的建设上面这个部分是没有问题的那我想请问目前我们各单位特别是国防部有跟你们讨论要把这个AI应用到这个里面他们的计划当中吗"},{"start":504.841,"end":532.787,"text":"目前目前没有目前没有为什么我要问这个问题因为像现在目前在中东战争当中美国是大力的用他们的算力来去做而且他们建构了非常多的中心但是呢他也常常会变成因为是一个非常的精准的这个层面来说的话所以也让很多人把他当做是一个破坏的一个很大的一个基地因为怕他太过精准然后会会会对他们伊朗的本土造成很大的损害那我们高雄其实也有"},{"start":533.487,"end":544.203,"text":"因應這樣一個需求也有所謂的AI算力的專區那我其實比較擔心在這個民用跟軍用的這個層面AI到底要怎麼樣它的倫理怎麼樣為什麼呢為什麼要提出這個部分因為美國來說的話有一個美國的AI公司叫Anthony Pick"},{"start":549.731,"end":575.55,"text":"因为他目前为止完全的不要让这个这个美国的国防部来跟他们做这样的一个合作所以是川普非常的不高兴他甚至把他当作是一个国家安全构成供应链风险因为他们认为这个AI用在国防还是有它伦理的这个层面所以它会引起国防跟商业的伦理这个层面我们AI基本法已经通过了主委你有没有在这个层面上面去做一些的规范"},{"start":575.99,"end":593.549,"text":"否则把AI放在未来的战争当中其实对人类来说是一个相当大的挑战有没有这样的一个规划我们AI基本法已经通过了对那在AI基本法里面我们没有讨论到这一块我们没有讨论这一块但是我们明确地讲我们政府的这个施政"},{"start":594.834,"end":623.817,"text":"一定要依照这个AI基本法的规范没有我个人认为说你这一块其实还应该再做一些界定因为在全世界当中都已经面临了军事应用跟商业伦理很多人认为说AI把它用在国防特别是在做一个攻击的层面上面是有伦理的问题这是未来可能会发生的所以我说即使是通过但是这方面的拟定跟这方面的未来的一个可能再进去更明确一点否则这个部分来说会造成非常大非常大的一个问题不过国"},{"start":624.697,"end":649.828,"text":"國防的這個議題不在國科會的主政範圍啦這是當然是但是你們在AI的這個部分所以我才剛你課跨部會裡面有沒有來跟你們做更大的一個研商因為這畢竟未來都會是來全面性的來去做這樣子的一個處理跟應用的如果國防部要跟國科會來討論這個事我們會跟所以目前沒有目前沒有那目前AI基本法裡面也還沒有上位要有"},{"start":650.388,"end":673.147,"text":"是否可以广泛的运用目前为止也都还没有做这样的一个规划跟处理目前没有因为AI基本法里面其实是对保障人权是已经很明确的讲出来有七个项目在人权的保障上所以这部分我认为是没有问题的我们就来看看吧不过还是把它放在这个部分因为未来可能你都会应用得到好不好好 谢谢 谢谢委员"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}