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10:10:31","會議時間":"2026-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部就「穩定供給與減塑並進：因應國際原物料波動之原物料穩定供應及我國減塑治理進程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n一、審查「廢棄物清理法條文修正草案」9案：\n（一）委員馬文君等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員顏寬恒等19人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林淑芬等22人擬具「廢棄物清理法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員張宏陸等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員邱議瑩等21人擬具「廢棄物清理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員許智傑等29人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員劉建國等19人擬具「廢棄物清理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查「資源回收再利用法修正草案」2案：\n（一）委員許智傑等28人擬具「資源回收再利用法修正草案」案。\n（二）委員盧縣一等16人擬具「資源回收再利用法修正草案」案。\n【專題報告及法律案綜合詢答，法律案僅詢答】\n【4月8日及9日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":9.227843750000002,"end":16.06221875,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":16.34909375,"end":17.47971875,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":19.656593750000003,"end":21.512843750000002,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":21.816593750000003,"end":30.13596875,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":30.43971875,"end":37.172843750000006,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":37.814093750000005,"end":39.24846875,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":39.619718750000004,"end":58.24971875000001,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":58.63784375,"end":72.89721875000001,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":72.98159375,"end":89.50221875000001,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":89.92409375000001,"end":99.82971875000001,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":100.31909375000001,"end":100.89284375000001,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":102.05721875,"end":105.07784375,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":106.00596875000001,"end":107.42346875000001,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":107.99721875,"end":130.12034375000002,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":130.55909375000002,"end":137.14034375,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":136.93784375,"end":137.54534375,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":138.49034375000002,"end":181.52159375000002,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":181.58909375000002,"end":200.99534375000002,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":187.86659375000002,"end":188.94659375,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":189.90846875000003,"end":190.31346875,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":201.07971875,"end":207.03659375,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":207.03659375,"end":233.41221875000002,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":211.08659375000002,"end":211.69409375,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":213.21284375000002,"end":213.26346875000002,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":213.26346875000002,"end":213.48284375,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":213.48284375,"end":213.55034375000002,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":225.49784375000002,"end":225.93659375000001,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":233.71596875,"end":262.48784375,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":263.09534375000004,"end":287.80034375,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":268.83284375,"end":269.17034375000003,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":287.76659375,"end":317.95596875,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":318.44534375,"end":322.69784375,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":323.27159375,"end":330.98346875000004,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":327.38909375000003,"end":327.86159375,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":330.67971875,"end":334.17284375,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":334.27409375,"end":340.31534375,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":339.08346875,"end":339.31971875000005,"speaker_score":0.804},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":34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是有開罰是不是我們這個會後再把資料給委員這邊可以那所以聽起來是紙餐具有其他是沒有嗎紙餐具是一個就是他那個就是欠繳情形比較嚴重的是那其他也是有"},{"start":340.521,"end":364.93,"text":"也只有那可不可以一併的把資料完整的讓我們了解一下是好ok那接著呢我來問請回好那再請部長我想問你再接下來是想問光電板的回收那光電板呢他如同我們剛講的一般廢棄物他也是要跟業者也是要跟經濟部來繳納回收處理費用那使用的標準呢是每千瓦一千元"},{"start":365.51,"end":381.818,"text":"所以經濟部收取了這個費用之後他會把這筆錢納入再生能源基金然後經濟部從再生能源基金再拿一些費用出來補助環境部去進行光電板回收處理的業務那但是呢比較可惜的是行政院的主計"},{"start":382.438,"end":405.183,"text":"月刊提出來說如果你每千瓦收1000元的話其實到了2045年你只能夠收到173億但實際上支出成本是397億所以這當中有200億的落差那於是呢就會讓我們產生一個想法那這不就是如同我們剛剛所言的嗎又會出現入不敷出的情形那部長不知道您怎麼看"},{"start":405.563,"end":422.368,"text":"好委員因為這個光電板大量產出應該是在127、128還有10多年的時間那我們是從108年開始收那的確那時候訂的就是1000塊那當然現在如果像去年有大量的產出但是他沒有用到這個基金是他自己"},{"start":422.768,"end":439.428,"text":"必須去付費去處理掉當成廢棄物去處理掉所以基本上目前如果未來的量夠其實那個費用就會往下降現在因為量很少就一百多噸其實怎麼做都划不來所以相對的這個目前一年大概只有到目前為止只有支出七千多萬而已"},{"start":439.628,"end":466.177,"text":"您確定是100多噸嗎?因為我的辦公室有去函問環境部然後我們問說從108年5月到去年12月這些廢光電板的處理狀況如何?他們回答說總清理量是6074公噸那是天災天災是業者付的這個是自然到使用年限之後淘汰的天災是業者自己要去處理費用的"},{"start":466.477,"end":473.541,"text":"所以這裡的6074億當中你的意思是有些是天災所導致的太陽能板的耗損然後它的回收處理是業者要處理那可以讓我們知道比例嗎因為這裡就一個數字6074我們也無從監督說有多少是來自於業者自行處理掉有些是用我們的所謂再生能源基金去處理可能要資訊透明化我們才能夠進一步來做一些比較有效的監視"},{"start":495.251,"end":511.991,"text":"對委員這個其實是有一個長期的趨勢啦所以現在目前還沒有到當然未來我們的這個未來的這個志願循環推動法裡面我們希望這個部分是由我們環境部來處理做這個事就跟回收基金是一樣的就不用現在那麼麻煩我們要到能源署那邊跟他們申請經費來做處理"},{"start":513.612,"end":531.206,"text":"所以這也是我下面要問你的就是說在森林園基金我們很好奇說每年補助環境部多少錢那實際支出的費用又多少那會不會有這種入不敷出然後最後變成要從資源回收基金去挖泉來填補這我想這是我們人民比較關心的"},{"start":533.308,"end":550.502,"text":"目前在太陽能板的回收基金是由能源署這邊用它的法規徵收的現在累積是20億元我們現在把需要用的一個費用就跟能源署用申請計畫的方式然後跟能源署由他的經營來提供給我們"},{"start":551.543,"end":580.218,"text":"譬如說我是要補貼費或者有些行政管理費用是所以你說的21億是他給21億是他全部收的錢你說再生能源基金裡頭有20億對再生能源基金有20億對那我們這邊好奇的是那他補貼給你們的實際費用多少那你們有沒有足夠夠用或不夠用的問題因為我們擔心萬一不夠用挖東牆補西牆這可能也是我們要關切的地方是"},{"start":580.478,"end":601.563,"text":"那有資料嗎如果沒有資料就匯後給我盤整一下匯後給我那當然我有注意到部長您非常關心光電板回收的一個費用的問題您覺得也不夠高所以需要提升甚至如同你所說的可能都需要修法你剛剛有提到但是從您有這個態度一直到現在應該也快一年了"},{"start":601.903,"end":614.513,"text":"可是我們現在光電板的回收還是維持在每千瓦一千所以代表從過去一年到現在還是有點原地不動的感覺那當然今天早上我有提名的報告嘛你只想積極的推動把光電驗板納為因回收的廢棄物然後把它納進去廢棄物清理法的一個管理範圍那才能夠可與僱主回收處理的責任"},{"start":628.524,"end":635.809,"text":"我想我有聽到這個你的最新進度啦只是說因為當時你說第四會期就要處理結果我們現在第五會期雖然早上有聽到說已經行政院會通過了但是好像還沒進入立法院的大門嘛所以我們期待你趕快讓這部法進入立法院的大門因為據我了解很多立委真的是在幫環境部心急也要提出一個跟你們類似的版本那我覺得經過一年的漫長等待因為九月你們還發新聞稿心事旦旦"},{"start":658.824,"end":664.428,"text":"10月卓院長又指示了 長官指示下來那特別卓院長一直把行動內閣奉為規約嘛那你總不能說他號稱行動內閣啊你這邊不動內閣好像就有一點這個說不過去所以希望你們現在已經院會通過了行政院會還沒通過快要通過那請問一下送到立法院的時間表今天能夠呈現出來嗎"},{"start":686.421,"end":702.92,"text":"呃我必須因為行政院會還沒有開我不能說今天說什麼時候就怎麼樣但是目前已經呃最後一個程序了那目前呃委員跟委員報告因為這個這個呃循環法不是我們環境部的格局已經到達一個整個跨部會整個行政院的層級所以他的確比較複雜"},{"start":704.261,"end":722.49,"text":"要跨單位的協商而當中也遇到一些土石方的這個事情所以推出的時機我們也稍微考量了一下那剛好現在等於是水到渠成我們認為這時候我們希望盡快就到貴院你認為天時地利人和條件有了嘛有天使嘛有天使的條件嘛那我們希望"},{"start":723.01,"end":744.708,"text":"在不久的將來你可以給一個稍微思考給我們一個比較可以期待的數字比較可以期待的數字這就是我要這個呼籲我們的這個環境部就是說因為您這個訴求已經歷經了快一年了那我們都在等待讓我們期待政府不要開出來的支票就是跳票"},{"start":745.589,"end":758.192,"text":"特別是這個回收的這個基金已經有虧損的情形那如果再一天拖過一天可能財務黑洞就會越來越大那所以也希望經濟部環境部這邊積極一點消滅這些經濟上的一個赤字所以這邊有一些數據要請這個部長這邊來提供那當然剛署長嗎 請問是署長嗎"},{"start":768.715,"end":782.42,"text":"署長也有答應我們要給一些資料那除此之外可不可以把這些營業量短報嘴角跟裁罰的資料送過來還有就是我提到的就是每年補助多少錢經濟部補助多少錢給你們然後實際支出多少錢那再來就回應到部長你最後講的嘛"},{"start":787.822,"end":793.807,"text":"已經水到渠成了天時的條件已經出現了那現在就缺人和嘛人和就是你這邊加緊腳步一點不知道是三個月還是六個月會進入立法院的大門可以給我們一個答案嗎就盡快快要了請在書面報告裡頭再給我們一個比較詳細的數字好嗎一個任舉三到六個月或什麼不用不用就是委員很快就會看到了"},{"start":814.884,"end":818.852,"text":"OK OK 好 謝謝部長那我們就一起努力來為這個廢棄物的回收盡一份心力這樣子 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝邱惠璐委員發言"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T09:56:56.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:57:00.568000+08:00","text":"主席、各位委員同仁、各位政府部門的同仁，大家好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T09:57:00.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:57:00.728000+08:00","text":"有請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T09:57:00.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:57:00.788000+08:00","text":"有請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T09:57:00.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:57:00.788000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T09:57:00.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:57:00.828000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T09:57:01.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:57:31.781000+08:00","text":"我今天想跟你交流廢棄物回收的問題，廢棄物清理法提到業者應申報營業量，根據營業量繳納回收處理費用，這筆回收處理費用會被納入資源回收基金。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T09:57:33.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:57:52.188000+08:00","text":"我們看右邊這張圖，它是立法院預算中心113年所提出的一個決算報告，這張圖有5項廢棄物，顯示出這5項廢棄物的營業量都遠低於回收量。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T09:57:53.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:58:08.998000+08:00","text":"營業量遠低於回收量，有一個訊息出來了，可能有營業量短報的問題；第二個問題也出來了，營業量如果短報，可能會讓我們剛剛講的資源回收基金發生虧損情形，怎麼說呢？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T09:58:09.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:58:39.786000+08:00","text":"因為營業量，它其實是反映業者根據他的營業量所支付的回收處理費，從基金的角度來說，這筆費用可以視為收入；而回收量，它可以反映出依實際回收量而支出的實際回收處理費，就基金的角度來說它是一筆支出。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T09:58:41.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:58:51.490000+08:00","text":"當收入很少，支出很多，就形成了一個入不敷出的現象，就是我剛剛講的，可能我們的資源回收基金會有虧損情形。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T09:58:52.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:58:55.111000+08:00","text":"請問一下部長，您認同嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T09:58:55.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:58:56.232000+08:00","text":"從這些數字的解讀，您認同嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T09:58:57.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:59:04.142000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這是一個大水庫，每年的狀況不一樣，要看回收的……我是不是請我們主管基金的署長來回答？可以。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T09:59:05.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:59:10.775000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，在基金部分，我們都有定期去查核他的申報情形。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T09:59:11.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:59:27.320000+08:00","text":"如果是查到申報不實的話，我們就會移送強制執行、催繳，甚至有些是檢調單位去調查他的回料申報，在紙餐具就有幾個這樣的例子，因為紙餐具的逃漏情形是嚴重的。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T09:59:27.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:59:42.003000+08:00","text":"除了稽查方式之外，我們在稽徵的方式部分，紙餐具後來也改為從紙餐具的成型業者改為就源課費，就源課費在去年有經過充分的討論。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T09:59:42.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:59:48.204000+08:00","text":"所以我想在每個項目像紙餐具，未來它就可以在收支平衡部分有很大的改善。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T09:59:48.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T09:59:56.425000+08:00","text":"所以兩個問題，第一個問題，您提到就紙餐具，你們現在有用一個就源管理的方式去處理嘛！","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T09:59:56.425000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T09:59:57.446000+08:00","text":"就源課費，是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T09:59:57.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:00:03.532000+08:00","text":"所以導致短收的情形就比較不會出現。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:00:03.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:00:15.562000+08:00","text":"那其他的4種物品，也想見賢思齊，以後會往廢紙餐具就源管理的方式去處理嗎？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T10:00:15.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:00:32.597000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，像塑膠的話，主要是像平板的那種容器，比較不容易徵收，因為那個業者可能有些是不開發票的，所以我們後來也有檢討對那些平板的業者，就是讓商品的業者來繳費。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T10:00:32.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:00:41.005000+08:00","text":"所以在繳費稽徵的技術上面，我們會就每個業者的樣態進行改善。對。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:00:41.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:00:54.507000+08:00","text":"好，你剛剛已經提到了，不同的樣品有不同處理方式，反正條條大路通羅馬，不同的樣品可能要用不同的方式管理，希望你們能夠確實地用不同的方式管理。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:00:55.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:01:07.550000+08:00","text":"這個並不是太遙遠以前的報告，這個是113年做的決算報告，我想營業量短收就是會造成入不敷出，然後影響基金的狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:01:07.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:01:09.230000+08:00","text":"所以現在基金的狀況是如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T10:01:10.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:01:19.578000+08:00","text":"目前整個收入，因為我們有公告14大項，這些物品容器的整個收入總體是平衡的。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T10:01:20.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:01:34.564000+08:00","text":"當然您提到幾項，有些個別的它有入不敷出的情況，這部分就是從個別項目加強去做，它可能有幾年基金不平衡的情形，我們就是儘量讓它在幾年的時間可以達到平衡。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:01:35.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:01:40.585000+08:00","text":"好，你剛剛提到某些項目有不平衡的情形，可不可以把那個資料給我們，讓我們進一步了解？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:01:40.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:01:41.285000+08:00","text":"這是第一件事。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:01:41.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:01:53.667000+08:00","text":"第二件事，如果有營業量短收的問題，根據廢棄物清理法的規定就是不實填報，而不實填報你有提到強制執行。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:01:53.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:02:01.569000+08:00","text":"我想強制執行，有兩個手段，第一個手段是對於業者，你要跟他追繳費用；第二個是會有一至三倍之罰鍰。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:02:02.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:02:10.973000+08:00","text":"您提到強制執行的部分，我的問題是，追繳費用聽起來有，那請問有開罰嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T10:02:10.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:02:14.075000+08:00","text":"在紙餐具以及有些業者有開罰，有、是。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:02:14.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:02:14.575000+08:00","text":"有開罰。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T10:02:14.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:02:17.716000+08:00","text":"是不是會後我們再把資料給委員這邊？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:02:17.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:02:20.878000+08:00","text":"可以，所以聽起來是紙餐具有，其他沒有嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T10:02:20.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:02:27.041000+08:00","text":"紙餐具部分是欠繳情形比較嚴重的，其他的也是有。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:02:27.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:02:30.682000+08:00","text":"也是有，那可不可以一併把資料完整地讓我們了解一下？是。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:02:31.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:02:34.023000+08:00","text":"好，請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:02:34.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:02:38.645000+08:00","text":"再請部長，接下來我是想問光電板的回收。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:02:39.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:02:51.910000+08:00","text":"光電板如同我們剛剛講的一般廢棄物，業者也是要跟經濟部繳納回收處理費用，使用的標準是每瓩1,000元。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:02:53.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:03:05.896000+08:00","text":"經濟部收取了這個費用之後，他會把這筆錢納入再生能源基金，然後經濟部從再生能源基金再拿一些費用出來，補助環境部去進行光電板回收處理的業務。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:03:06.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:03:30.463000+08:00","text":"比較可惜的是，行政院主計月刊提出來，如果每瓩收1,000元的話，其實到了2045年只能夠收到173億，但實際上支出成本是397億，所以這當中有200億的落差，於是就會讓我們產生一個想法，這不就如同我們剛剛所言的，又會出現入不敷出的情形。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:03:30.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:03:32.163000+08:00","text":"部長，不知道您怎麼看？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:03:32.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:03:52.451000+08:00","text":"因為光電板大量產出，應該是在127、128年，還有十多年的時間，我們是從108年開始收，的確那時候訂的就是1,000塊，像去年有大量產出，但是他沒有用到這個基金，是他自己必須付費、當成廢棄物去處理掉。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:03:52.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:06.408000+08:00","text":"所以基本上，如果未來的量夠，其實那個費用就會往下降，現在因為量很少就一百多噸，怎麼做都划不來，所以相對地，到目前為止只有支出七千多萬而已。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:06.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:08.729000+08:00","text":"您確定是一百多噸嘛？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:08.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:17.732000+08:00","text":"因為我的辦公室有去函問環境部，我們問從108年5月到去年12月，這些廢光電板的處理狀況如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:17.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:23.514000+08:00","text":"他們回答說總清理量是6,074公噸。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:23.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:25.734000+08:00","text":"那是天災……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:25.734000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:26.734000+08:00","text":"天災是業者付的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:26.734000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:27.734000+08:00","text":"天災是業者付的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:25.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:26.755000+08:00","text":"你說天災是業者付的？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:28.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:32.977000+08:00","text":"這個是自然到使用年限之後淘汰的，而天災是業者自己要去處理費用。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:33.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:38.019000+08:00","text":"所以這裡的6,074噸當中，你的意思是有些是天災所導致的太陽能板耗損，它的回收處理是業者要處理？是。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:38.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:38.560000+08:00","text":"可以讓我們知道比例嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:38.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:40.541000+08:00","text":"因為這裡就一個數字6,074，我們也無從監督有多少是來自於業者自行處理掉，有些是用我們所謂的再生能源基金去處理，可能要讓資訊透明化，我們才能夠進一步做一些比較有效的監督。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:02.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:06.136000+08:00","text":"是，委員，這個其實是有一個長期的趨勢，現在還沒有到。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:06.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:18.971000+08:00","text":"當然在未來的資源循環推動法裡面，我們希望這個部分是由環境部來處理，跟回收基金一樣，就不用像現在那麼麻煩，我們要跟能源署申請經費來處理。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:20.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:28.278000+08:00","text":"了解，這也是我下面要問你的，我們很好奇再生能源基金每年補助環境部多少錢？","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:29.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:30.560000+08:00","text":"實際支出的費用又是多少？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:31.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:36.725000+08:00","text":"會不會入不敷出，最後變成要從資源回收基金去挖錢來填補？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:36.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:38.186000+08:00","text":"我想這是我們人民比較關心的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:40.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:47.994000+08:00","text":"是，跟委員報告，目前太陽能板的回收基金是能源署這邊用它的法規採徵收的方式，現在累積20億元。","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:48.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:06:01.345000+08:00","text":"我們現在把需要用的費用以申請計畫的方式給能源署，然後由能源署提供它的基金給我們，譬如我是要補貼費或有些行政管理費用。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:06:01.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:06:05.727000+08:00","text":"是，所以你說的21億是它給……20億。20億是？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T10:06:06.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:06:08.168000+08:00","text":"它全部收的錢。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:06:08.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:06:11.150000+08:00","text":"你說再生能源基金裡頭有20億？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:06:11.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:06:13.491000+08:00","text":"再生能源基金有20億？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:06:14.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:06:17.653000+08:00","text":"我們這邊好奇的是，它補貼給你們的實際費用是多少？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:06:18.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:06:19.694000+08:00","text":"你們足不足夠？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:06:20.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:06:28.698000+08:00","text":"因為我們擔心萬一不夠用會挖東牆、補西牆，這可能也是我們要關切的地方，有資料嗎？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:06:28.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:06:31.679000+08:00","text":"如果沒有資料就盤整一下，會後給我。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T10:06:31.679000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:06:32.679000+08:00","text":"好，會後提供。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:06:32.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:06:57.570000+08:00","text":"當然，我有注意到部長非常關心光電板回收費用的問題，您也覺得不夠高，所以需要提升，甚至如同你剛剛有提到的，可能需要修法，但是從您有這個態度一直到現在應該也快一年了，我們現在光電板的回收還是維持在每千瓦1,000元，代表從過去一年到現在還是有點原地不動的感覺。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:06:57.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:07:01.493000+08:00","text":"當然，今天早上我有聽您的報告，您一直想積極地推動，把光電板納為應回收的廢棄物，然後把它納入廢棄物清理法的管理範圍，才能夠課予雇主回收處理的責任。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:07:15.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:07:20.027000+08:00","text":"我有聽到你的最新進度，只是因為當時你說第4會期就要處理，結果現在第5會期了，雖然早上有聽到行政院會已經通過了，但是好像還沒進入立法院的大門，所以我們期待你趕快讓這部法進入立法院的大門。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:07:20.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:07:49.527000+08:00","text":"因為據我了解，很多立委真的是在幫環境部心急，也要提出一個跟你們類似的版本，我覺得經過一年的漫長等待……因為9月你們還發新聞稿，信誓旦旦地說了這件事；10月卓院長又指示了，由長官指示下來，特別是卓院長一直把行動內閣奉為圭臬嘛，總不能說他號稱行動內閣，你這邊卻是不動內閣，好像就有一點說不過去。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:07:49.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:07:49.687000+08:00","text":"現在院會已經通過了，希望你們……","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:07:49.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:07:49.927000+08:00","text":"院會還沒通過。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:07:49.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:07:50.167000+08:00","text":"行政院會還沒通過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:07:50.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:07:50.187000+08:00","text":"快要了。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:07:50.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:07:50.347000+08:00","text":"快要通過？對。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:07:50.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:07:51.428000+08:00","text":"請問一下，送到立法院的時間表今天能夠呈現出來嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:08:13.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:08:20.409000+08:00","text":"因為行政院會還沒有開，我不能在今天說什麼時候就能怎麼樣，但是目前已經到最後一個程序了。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:08:22.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:08:32.342000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為這個循環法不是我們環境部的層級，已經到跨部會，是整個行政院的層級，所以它的確比較複雜，要跨單位協商。了解。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:08:32.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:08:43.307000+08:00","text":"當中也遇到一些土石方的事情，所以推出的時機我們也稍微考量了一下，現在等於是水到渠成，我們認為這個時候……我們希望儘快送到貴院。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:08:44.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:08:45.888000+08:00","text":"好，您認為天時地利人和，條件有了嘛。對。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:08:46.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:08:47.889000+08:00","text":"有天時的條件嘛。是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:08:48.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:09:25.012000+08:00","text":"我們希望在不久的將來你給我們一個比較可以期待的數字，這就是我要呼籲環境部的，因為您這個訴求已經歷經快一年了，我們都在等待，我們期待政府不要開出來的支票就是跳票，特別是回收的基金已經有虧損的情形，如果再一天拖過一天，可能財務黑洞就會越來越大，也希望經濟部、環境部積極一點，消弭這些經濟上的赤字，所以這邊有一些數據要請部長提供。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:09:25.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:09:25.192000+08:00","text":"當然，剛剛署長……請問是署長嗎？是。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:09:35.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:09:44.118000+08:00","text":"署長也有答應我們要給一些資料，除此之外，可不可以把這些營業量短報、追繳跟裁罰的資料送過來？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:09:44.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:09:48.740000+08:00","text":"還有我提到的，就是每年經濟部補助多少錢給你們，然後實際支出多少錢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:09:48.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:09:58.645000+08:00","text":"再來就回應到部長最後講的，已經水到渠成了，天時的條件已經出現了，現在就缺人和，人和就是你這邊加緊腳步一點，不知道是3個月還是6個月會進入立法院的大門，可以給我們一個答案嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:09:58.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:09:58.885000+08:00","text":"就儘快，快要了，馬上。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:09:58.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:09:59.386000+08:00","text":"好，快要了、馬上，請在書面報告裡頭給我們一個比較詳細的數字，好嗎？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:09:59.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:00.126000+08:00","text":"一個range，3到6個月或什麼的。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:10:00.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:00.787000+08:00","text":"不用，委員很快就會看到了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-08T10:10:22.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:25.190000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長，我們就一起努力，來為廢棄物的回收盡一份心力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:10:25.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:25.471000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T10:10:25.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:25.831000+08:00","text":"謝謝邱慧洳委員發言。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T10:10:26.331000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:29.473857+08:00","text":"接下來請王育敏委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}