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現在主席有請我們社會部林部長好 我們請林部長部長早委員長好 直接進入主題資安及國安這個是現在全民都很了解這個問題特別看到你的業務報告針對於這個資安問題你有從多面向立體性的希望能夠架構資安的一個網包括建構資安"},{"start":33.61,"end":59.32,"text":"智慧化的資安資安防禦的生態系打造資安科研團隊跟資安人才的培育我覺得這中間最重要的是資安的人才的培力是非常非常重要的因為很多的不管系統在AI在資安的一個防守端面對每一天的一個變化你真的我覺得這樣的一個專家的人才培育是非常重要的那你現在整個資安"},{"start":60.06,"end":87.282,"text":"我們的數位部站在第一線我們資安人才守得怎麼樣我們現在那個資安人才坦白講非常的缺因為台灣事實上資安產業非常的強他們開出的薪資條件非常好所以我們在留才的方面我們的確是遇到不少的挑戰所以我們想辦法就是提高我們資安人員的這個家籍還有一些那個留任的獎金等等我們想辦法把好的人才留住好"},{"start":88.343,"end":113.277,"text":"這個部長 是資安人才這麼難找又少了三位又少了三位是所以發展部滿滿的資安的一個願景政策結果沒想到這個案子敵人就在本能市就是我們認為說資安是一堵牆我們不光是自己資安守得好是整個國家的單位協助他們甚至有能力對一個重大的一個民間單位這是大家的一個期待是結果我們這個城牆裡面居然這個是3月20號"},{"start":120.397,"end":141.369,"text":"這個進電視的報導 當然很多新聞都有出來了 是這個標題實在是很難聽啦 最強內鬼就出現在國家治安院研究員寫成是害自家的系統 社運端包括許願池啊 因為X Max計畫等等的都不管嘛下面講的 包括原來有分級制的機密"},{"start":142.329,"end":168.631,"text":"機密文件結果因為這個系統一些也跳脫了不能看的也看了然後一次這個全部下載我覺得這個東西很離譜就是我們在這邊從唐副部長一直到林部長我們從第一天跟我們保證說成立數位部也好 數發部不管你怎麼叫它最大的目的最基本的一件事你知道嗎 最基本的最基本的一件事就要做到的結果"},{"start":169.372,"end":191.164,"text":"我們沒有做到居然在治安院裡面請問一下你是幾月幾號知道的這件事情我們在部長你幾月幾號接到報告你是說我還是那個我大概是一個多月前知道的三月幾號我不記得確定我大概知道大概一個多月前知道但是確實的信息我講不出來請一下院長院長"},{"start":193.817,"end":212.808,"text":"院長你知道這件事情這個嚴重程度不光是這個事件那事件我就不再描述了新聞媒體都有不管他怎麼說這三個人反正已經被解職了移送法辦了我也理解你知道這個事情嚴重在什麼因為這些人才怎麼來的誰選的什麼時候來的"},{"start":219.412,"end":241.487,"text":"我跟你講 數位發展部是民國111年8月份才成立的帶著國人的期待 國家安全 資安及國安這樣的有你們多一層保障 這樣的運營而生的結果資安院呢 是在112年隔一年的2月10號才掛牌正式成立"},{"start":242.347,"end":263.492,"text":"我們治安署又得力的駐守了很多的部分研究發展最棒的治安院來了當時我幾世民的前院長也跟我們溝通現在我發覺他在跟我們講的過程中就有人在惡搞了我就回想那段時間跟笑話一樣這第一個"},{"start":264.69,"end":290.356,"text":"那第二個是這個人三個人中間有一個位階是總監他是一個中心的總監除了主任副主任第三個就是總監實務性的很多作物都是作業總監在操作那這個總監這個職務不是一般研究員一個總監帶頭在幹這件事情他不是在總理他是他在監守治道的總監"},{"start":292.316,"end":310.803,"text":"但是他是在治安院112年2月10號成立他的任用日期是112年的1月16號也就是他是創院員啦我跟你講不是唐東部長用的就是什麼眾中之眾人才請問一下這個人誰用的資歷是不是比你還早啊"},{"start":315.141,"end":331.046,"text":"這位是,這位主管是在資安院成立前就有一個資安卓越中心的成立那在兩年前,更早的兩年前的成立的時候就進來然後隨著資安院成立並入資安院"},{"start":331.926,"end":351.144,"text":"所以有人看到會是112年的1月中他直接就轉過來了嘛對不對好 重中之重但不管嘛因為人才你要講這麼多願景要找適合人才尤其在治安的部分你自己要做好嘛就一來你給一個會降的"},{"start":352.505,"end":369.967,"text":"寫爬蟲城市自己在裡面弄來弄去這樣的人做了總監做了總監第二個他任用日期等於你職在醫院從第一天開始就在一個不安全之下因為之前不是你啦我是覺得這個事情是真的有很多思考的部分"},{"start":371.519,"end":394.256,"text":"那我一樣問院長院長我請問一下這個去年12月你們內部巡查發現真的啦我不是治安專家啦內部巡查我問了一下你說例行性的結果後面剪掉一查已經搞了一年多請問一下例行性是多例行是每一天run一次還是一個月例行一次你說一下"},{"start":395.74,"end":418.261,"text":"我們有經常性的以及年度的那我們這個檢查是在年度的時候發現的一年度一次 平常不檢查平常就有檢查 但是年度的檢查是會所以他要持續在這裡的一個資訊你平常的前幾次在持續中你檢查不到是你巡查的方式 巡查的軟體 巡查的手段出了問題你是治安院"},{"start":420.923,"end":449.201,"text":"蠻可怕的他已經一年多了結果在他抓到了12月那他11月呢 10月呢你之前的巡查咧你的警覺度在哪裡你告訴別人要警覺這個東西出了很大的問題你查到之後最後叫這個調查局進場然後你們三月多為什麼這麼久我不知道你們兩個距離這麼遠部長你來回答一下好不好那時候那個"},{"start":452.177,"end":472.608,"text":"部長 他12月發現 其實是蠻嚴重的包括他2月11號 他知道報請調查局就已經報到外面的單位了我們知道當時還沒有報到部裡面你覺得這種制度好嗎這件事情是由資安院主動發現 然後他們主動找調查局"},{"start":475.973,"end":503.322,"text":"知會嗎這麼重要的事情當然要跟我知會他們在那個找調查局的時候就已經跟我講說他們去找調查局了因為這個事情的發生像這種資安事件因為必須收集那個機證那在收集機證的過程中事實上是非常保密的就是說只有那個負責這件事情的幾位資安院的主管知道這件事情然後他們在收集到足夠的證據以後他趕快來跟我報告等一下 部長你要保密的是所有資安的資料是"},{"start":504.4,"end":526.266,"text":"你現在跟我講說你要保密這個犯罪的人我叫他 他該不該針對這個犯罪事件有三個人發生什麼事 細節不一定要跟你講跟資料外洩有什麼關係啊我覺得你會被害到 你知道嗎是 我也很擔心啊哪裡別人問到你 你問三不知我覺得這不是面子的問題這件事情就是說在"},{"start":528.169,"end":553.858,"text":"應該就是一個多月以前他們已經來跟我報告了所以我都有掌握到這個狀況那因為一開始我們也不曉得說那個牽涉的範圍到底是多大所以這個當然是在這個調查的過程中當初是非常好 最後一個問題請教你那現在三位實質有涉及刑罰犯罪資安不管問題的人現在已經檢調在調查很清楚那你這個中心的主任副主任"},{"start":555.253,"end":576.985,"text":"主任副主任咖啡好喝嗎茶好喝嗎還要喝多久就跟我沒關係他的總監犯了一年多時間一年多治安的問題然後咧到總監犯這種事情所以你的主任副主任是擺設是沒有用的或者沒有技術能力的院長你說說看主任副主任要不要負行政責任"},{"start":579.798,"end":599.756,"text":"確實是有行政責任 我們內部也深切檢討那因為在資安的內部監控 這是我們資訊處資訊的同仁在負責 不是那個中心的主管在負責所以這一部分的督導不屬於他們的責任你知道嗎 你的員工在做什麼"},{"start":602.793,"end":627.695,"text":"他完全都不知道他裡面已經有很多傳來傳去說該怎麼樣去做麻煩你寫爬中程式你要該怎麼樣去做有兩個人是元老一個人是後面才來的整個體系在你眼前在那邊去做所以你就坐在辦公室嗎你什麼都不知道所以未來我們對於你這個七個中心的唯一期待主任副主任他"},{"start":630.632,"end":652.291,"text":"下面有任何重大的事情如果你要記得一件事喔這件事情可大可小還在查證中喔如果事情爆得非常大的時候你在處理的時候那不是這樣喔所以他這樣的一個行為主任副主任勢必是要負責他一個直屬主管監督的一個責任部長 部長你在最後再做個回答好了"},{"start":652.987,"end":670.901,"text":"是 當然部長你管的機構這麼多我想說一句話是你也經常要必須負一些行政的一個責任政治的責任去負責你根本不知道的事情是對不對 什麼院發生什麼事什麼署下面的什麼科什麼事到最後請問一下大家會不會來"},{"start":672.423,"end":683.987,"text":"向你找答案一定嘛你跑不掉嘛你是主管所以我也希望你跟治安院好好去講一下這件事情不能說誰犯錯就大家其他沒事大家繼續我覺得絕對不行這件事情有嚴重的管理問題要去處理管理上的問題絕對會處理這不管怎樣我們絕對會處理謝謝委員提醒"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:22:20.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:22:21.564000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主席，有請數位部林部長。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T10:22:21.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:22:21.704000+08:00","text":"好，我們請林部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:22:21.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:22:21.744000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:22:21.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:22:21.784000+08:00","text":"委員早安。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲：好，直接進入主題","start":"2026-04-08T10:22:21.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:22:23.205000+08:00","text":"資安即國安，現在全民都很了解這個問題。是。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:22:23.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:23:13.439000+08:00","text":"我特別看到你的業務報告，針對資安問題，你有從多面向、立體性的希望能夠架構資安網，包括建構智慧化資安防禦生態系，打造資安科研團隊和資安人才培育，我覺得這中間最重要的是資安人才培育，是非常非常重要的，因為很多系統不管是在AI、在資安的防守端，對於每一天的變化，我真的覺得這樣的專家人才培育非常重要。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:23:14.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:23:21.685000+08:00","text":"對於現在整個資安，數位部站在第一線，我們的資安人才守得怎麼樣？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:23:21.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:23:42.562000+08:00","text":"是，坦白講，我們現在資安人才非常的缺，因為事實上臺灣的資安產業非常強，他們開出的薪資條件非常好，所以我們在留才方面的確是遇到不少挑戰，所以我們想辦法提高資安人員的加給，還有一些留任獎金等等，我們想辦法把好的人才留住。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:23:43.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:23:49.346000+08:00","text":"好，部長，資安人才這麼難找，又少了三位。是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:23:49.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:24:20.199000+08:00","text":"所以發展部滿滿的資安願景政策，結果沒想到這個案子敵人就在本能寺，我們認為資安是一堵牆，我們不光是自己資安守得好，整個國家的單位協助他們，甚至有能力對一個重大的民間單位，本來這是大家的期待，結果我們這個城牆裡面居然……這是在3月20號鏡電視的報導，當然很多的新聞都有出來，這個標題實在是很難聽啦！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:24:20.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:24:23.881000+08:00","text":"「最強內鬼就在國家資安院！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:24:24.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:24:46.196000+08:00","text":"研究員寫程式駭自家系統，設雲端許選池……包括XMAS計畫等等」，裡面講到包括原來有分級制的機密文件，結果因為這個系統也跳脫了，不能看的也看了，然後一次全部下載。","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:24:46.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:25:01.149000+08:00","text":"我覺得這個東西很離譜，我們在這邊從唐鳳部長一直到林部長，從第一天你們跟我們保證成立數位部或數發部也好，不管你怎麼叫，它最大的目的、最基本的一件事，你知道嗎？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:25:01.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:25:11.596000+08:00","text":"最基本的一件事就是要做到，結果沒有做到的居然是在資安院裡面，請問一下，你是幾月幾號知道的？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:25:11.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:25:11.996000+08:00","text":"這件事情……","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:25:12.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:25:14.117000+08:00","text":"部長，你幾月幾號接到報告？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:25:14.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:25:16.538000+08:00","text":"你是說我還是那個……你。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:25:16.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:25:18.419000+08:00","text":"我大概是一個多月前知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:25:20.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:25:21.361000+08:00","text":"3月幾號？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:25:21.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:25:26.804000+08:00","text":"我不確定，我大概一個多月前知道，但是確實的日期我講不出來。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:25:26.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:25:47.007000+08:00","text":"我請一下院長，院長，你知道這件事情的嚴重程度不光是這個事件，事件我就不再描述了，新聞媒體都有，不管怎麼說，這三個人反正已經被解職了、移送法辦了，我也理解，你知道這個事情嚴重在什麼？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:25:47.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:25:48.788000+08:00","text":"這些人才怎麼來的、誰選的、什麼時候來的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:25:55.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:26:39.492000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，數位發展部是民國111年8月份才成立的，帶著國人的期待，國家安全、資安即國安、有你們就多一層保障，是在這樣的期盼下孕育而生的，資安院是在112年，也就是隔一年的2月10號才掛牌正式成立，我們資安署又有得力助手了，研究發展等很多部分由最棒的資安院來，當時你的前院長也跟我們溝通，現在我發覺他在跟我們講的過程中，就有人在惡搞了，我現在回想那段時間，跟笑話一樣，這是第一個。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:26:40.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:27:06.356000+08:00","text":"第二個，三個人中有一個位階是總監，他是一個中心的總監，除了主任、副主任，第三個就是總監，實務性的很多作業都是總監在操作，這個總監的職務不是一般研究員，一個總監帶頭在幹這件事情，他不是在總理，他是監守自盜的總監。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:27:09.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:27:26.443000+08:00","text":"資安院112年2月10號成立，他的任用日期是112年的1月16號，也就是他是創院元老，我跟你講，不是唐鳳部長用的就是什麼重中之重的人才，請問一下這個人是誰用的？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:27:26.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:27:26.683000+08:00","text":"資歷是不是比你還早？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林院長盈達","start":"2026-04-08T10:27:32.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:27:52.230000+08:00","text":"在資安院成立前，就有一個資安卓越中心在更早的兩年前就成立，這位主管是那時候就進來，後來隨著資安院成立就併入資安院，所以委員看到會是112年的1月中。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:27:52.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:27:54.893000+08:00","text":"所以他直接就轉過來了嘛，對不對？對。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:27:54.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:28:13.972000+08:00","text":"好，重中之重，但不管，因為你講了這麼多願景，要找適合的人才，尤其在資安的部分，你自己要做好嘛，結果他一來，寫爬蟲程式在裡面弄來弄去，你給這樣的人做了總監。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:28:15.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:28:25.946000+08:00","text":"第二個，依他的任用日期，等於資安院從第一天開始就在不安全的情況下，因為之前不是你，我是覺得這個事情是真的有很多需要思考的部分。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:28:27.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:28:43.631000+08:00","text":"我一樣問院長，院長，我請問一下，去年12月你們內部巡查發現異常，真的啦，我不是資安專家啦，我問了一下，你說內部巡查是例行性的，結果後面檢調一查，他已經搞了一年多。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:28:44.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:28:46.673000+08:00","text":"請問一下例行性是多例行？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:28:47.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:28:49.755000+08:00","text":"是每天run一次，還是一個月例行一次？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:28:49.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:28:50.236000+08:00","text":"你說一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林院長盈達","start":"2026-04-08T10:28:51.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:28:58.046000+08:00","text":"我們有經常性的以及年度的，我們這個檢查是在年度的時候發現的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:28:58.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:29:00.448000+08:00","text":"所以一年度一次，平常不檢查？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林院長盈達","start":"2026-04-08T10:29:01.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:29:03.471000+08:00","text":"平常就有檢查，但是年度的檢查是會……","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:29:03.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:29:14.241000+08:00","text":"所以他持續在這裡，但平常的前幾次你卻檢查不到，是你的巡查方式、巡查軟體、巡查手段出了問題，你是資安院耶！","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:29:16.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:29:17.303000+08:00","text":"滿可怕的耶！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:29:17.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:29:23.247000+08:00","text":"他已經一年多了，結果12月抓到了，那11月呢？10月呢？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:29:23.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:29:24.508000+08:00","text":"你之前的巡查呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:29:25.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:29:26.809000+08:00","text":"你的警覺度在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:29:26.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:29:40.078000+08:00","text":"你告訴別人要警覺，這個東西出了很大的問題，你查到之後，最後叫調查局協助調查，然後你們到3月多……為什麼這麼久？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:29:40.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:29:42.959000+08:00","text":"我不知道你們兩個的距離這麼遠。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:29:42.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:29:44.060000+08:00","text":"部長，你來回答一下好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:29:50.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:30:04.126000+08:00","text":"他12月發現，其實這滿嚴重的，2月11號報請調查局，就已經報到外面的單位了，我們知道當時還沒有報到部裡面，你覺得這種制度好嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:30:04.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:30:08.588000+08:00","text":"這件事情是由資安院主動發現，然後他們主動找調查局……","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:30:11.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:30:13.053000+08:00","text":"不用跟你們知會嗎？","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:30:13.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:30:13.714000+08:00","text":"這麼重要的事情……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:30:14.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:30:35.100000+08:00","text":"當然要跟我知會，他們在找調查局的時候就已經跟我講說他們去找調查局，因為這個事情的發生，像這種資安事件因為必須蒐集跡證，在蒐集跡證的過程中，事實上是非常保密的，就是只有負責這件事情的幾位資安院主管知道這件事情，他們在蒐集到足夠的證據以後，他趕快來跟我報告。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:30:35.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:30:42.881000+08:00","text":"部長，你要保密的是所有資安的資料，你現在跟我講說你要保密這個犯罪的人……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:30:42.881000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:30:43.881000+08:00","text":"喔，不是！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:30:43.881000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:30:44.881000+08:00","text":"不是這個意思。","quality":0},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:30:44.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:30:52.023000+08:00","text":"他該不該針對這個犯罪事件跟你報告有三個人發生什麼事，細節不一定要跟你講，跟資料外洩有什麼關係？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:30:53.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:30:55.864000+08:00","text":"我覺得你會被害到，你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:30:55.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:30:56.564000+08:00","text":"是，我也很擔心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:30:57.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:31:01.486000+08:00","text":"別人問到你，你一問三不知，我覺得這不是面子的問題。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:31:01.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:31:15.493000+08:00","text":"這件事情在一個多月以前，他們已經來跟我報告了，所以我都有掌握到這個狀況，因為一開始我們也不曉得牽涉的範圍到底是多大，所以當初在調查的過程中是非常低調的。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:31:15.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:31:29.838000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題請教你，這三位實質有涉及刑法犯罪、資安問題的人，現在檢調已經在調查了嘛，很清楚，那這個中心的主任、副主任呢？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:31:31.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:31:34.455000+08:00","text":"主任、副主任，咖啡好喝嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:31:34.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:31:35.435000+08:00","text":"茶好喝嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:31:35.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:31:35.815000+08:00","text":"還要喝多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:31:37.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:31:49.883000+08:00","text":"感覺好像跟他們沒關係，總監犯了一年多資安的問題，總監犯這種事情，所以你主任、副主任是擺設、是沒有用的，或者是沒有技術能力的。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:31:50.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:31:52.965000+08:00","text":"院長，你說說看，主任、副主任要不要負行政責任？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林院長盈達","start":"2026-04-08T10:31:55.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:32:14.295000+08:00","text":"確實是有行政責任，我們內部也深切檢討，因為資安的內部監控，這是我們資訊的同仁在負責，不是那個中心的主管在負責，所以這一部分的督導不屬於他們的責任。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:32:14.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:32:14.855000+08:00","text":"你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:32:15.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:32:37.470000+08:00","text":"員工在做什麼，他完全都不知道，他們裡面已經有很多傳來傳去的訊息說該怎麼樣做、麻煩你寫爬蟲程式，然後該怎麼樣去做，其中有兩個人是元老，一個人是後面才來的，整個體系在他們眼前這樣做，他們就坐在辦公室什麼都不知道嗎？","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:32:37.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:33:05.428000+08:00","text":"所以未來我們對於這七個中心的唯一期待，主任、副主任，當他們下面有任何重大的事情，你要記得一件事，這件事情可大可小，還在查證中，如果事情爆得非常大你再處理，那不是這樣喔，所以這樣的行為，主任、副主任勢必是要負起直屬主管監督的責任。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:33:06.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:33:08.011000+08:00","text":"部長，你最後來做個回答。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:33:08.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:33:09.848000+08:00","text":"是，當然……","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:33:10.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:33:20.776000+08:00","text":"部長，你管的機構這麼多，我想說一句話，你也經常必須負一些行政的責任、政治的責任，去負責你根本不知道的事情啊，對不對？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:33:20.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:33:29.103000+08:00","text":"什麼院發生什麼事、什麼署下面的什麼科發生什麼事，請問一下，到最後大家會不會來向你找答案？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:33:29.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:33:31.184000+08:00","text":"一定嘛，你跑不掉嘛，你是主管。是。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:33:31.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:33:38.186000+08:00","text":"所以我也希望你跟資安院好好去講一下，這件事情不能說誰犯錯就處置他就好，其他沒事、大家繼續，我覺得這絕對不行。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:33:38.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:33:38.927000+08:00","text":"當然，這件事情我覺得有嚴重的管理問題，這個我們知道……","quality":0.522},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:33:38.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:33:39.207000+08:00","text":"要去處理管理上的問題，好不好？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-08T10:33:39.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:33:39.967000+08:00","text":"我們絕對會處理，不管怎樣，這個我們絕對會處理，謝謝委員提醒。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-04-08T10:33:40.467000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:33:41.467000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T10:33:41.767000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:33:46.052714+08:00","text":"謝謝魯明哲委員的發言，也謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T10:33:46.352714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:33:49.495571+08:00","text":"接下來請陳素月委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}