{"error":false,"id":["168243"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168243,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168243","日期":"2026-04-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-08T10:54:50+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-08T11:04:42+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:52","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/70d8fc05dcd8abb0df84c616805cffe51607b63c45e41aa0ce185cfc45202cc0716be6cd68217e7c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王安祥","委員發言時間":"10:54:50 - 11:04:42","會議時間":"2026-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":0.60471875,"end":2.32596875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":9.29534375,"end":10.67909375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":11.05034375,"end":11.657843750000001,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":12.09659375,"end":58.01346875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":18.20534375,"end":18.57659375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":22.74471875,"end":23.18346875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":32.025968750000004,"end":32.71784375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":57.439718750000004,"end":113.07659375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":82.27971875,"end":82.44846875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":91.02096875000001,"end":91.64534375000001,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":102.37784375000001,"end":102.74909375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":111.57471875,"end":177.82596875000002,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":115.01721875000001,"end":115.67534375000001,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":121.53096875000001,"end":122.37471875000001,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":178.26471875000001,"end":225.61596875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":187.61346875,"end":187.96784375000001,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":193.38471875000002,"end":193.70534375000003,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":196.65846875000003,"end":197.02971875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":205.51784375000003,"end":205.90596875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":212.99346875,"end":213.39846875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":219.76034375,"end":220.36784375000002,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":223.60784375,"end":246.45659375000002,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":227.20221875000001,"end":228.26534375000003,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":231.55596875,"end":231.70784375000002,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":245.30909375000002,"end":259.99034375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":248.61659375000002,"end":248.97096875000003,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":251.97471875000002,"end":252.29534375000003,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":259.31534375,"end":265.79534375000003,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":260.00721875,"end":260.34471875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":266.21721875000003,"end":270.95909375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":271.26284375,"end":319.23846875000004,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":272.51159375000003,"end":272.91659375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":296.08596875,"end":296.87909375000004,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":297.11534375,"end":297.60471875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":299.17409375,"end":299.52846875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":307.69596875,"end":307.98284375000003,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":312.30284375,"end":312.64034375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":319.69409375000004,"end":348.56721875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":320.43659375000004,"end":320.90909375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":323.42346875000004,"end":324.36846875000003,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":336.70409375,"end":337.78409375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":347.41971875,"end":356.09346875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":356.44784375,"end":383.70096875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":384.67971875,"end":389.38784375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":389.74221875,"end":409.51971875000004,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":404.62596875,"end":405.41909375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":409.51971875000004,"end":422.64846875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":414.80159375000005,"end":415.83096875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":422.64846875,"end":442.74659375000005,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":424.77471875000003,"end":425.17971875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":442.67909375000005,"end":450.55971875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":449.73284375000003,"end":451.48784375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":451.11659375000005,"end":462.79409375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":452.48346875000004,"end":453.19221875000005,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":455.58846875,"end":455.77409375,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":458.98034375000003,"end":460.11096875000004,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":463.62096875000003,"end":473.52659375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":464.38034375,"end":466.21971875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":467.06346875,"end":467.29971875,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":472.88534375,"end":497.84346875000006,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":478.52159375,"end":479.17971875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":479.85471875,"end":480.42846875000004,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":498.01221875000005,"end":505.94346875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":506.71971875,"end":507.39471875000004,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":507.74909375000004,"end":528.06659375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":528.1340937500001,"end":529.01159375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":529.0959687500001,"end":563.8415937500001,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":534.4453437500001,"end":534.7490937499999,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":540.85784375,"end":541.0434687500001,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":542.8997187500001,"end":543.1865937499999,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":562.66034375,"end":574.5234687500001,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":564.6853437500001,"end":566.0690937500001,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":572.1440937500001,"end":579.77159375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":576.7847187500001,"end":577.4765937500001,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":579.65346875,"end":591.3984687500001,"speaker_score":0.932},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":581.74596875,"end":582.77534375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":585.99846875,"end":586.53846875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":588.96846875,"end":590.8415937500001,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":590.92596875,"end":591.3984687500001,"speaker_score":0.972}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.903,"end":29.721,"text":"主席早 有請蔡局長好 謝謝主席 翁國仁早局長早我想對國家安全來說因為我們現在受到中國很大的威脅我想美國對我們來說應該是非常重要的一個戰略夥伴所以在我們公開的報告裡面第一頁就看到美國他們基本上採用了"},{"start":30.481,"end":50.316,"text":"所謂實力追求和平不過這幾天我想大家都看到這個美國啊真的這個深不可測啊這個昨天晚上還說要這個打一副要打的樣子今天早上我們這個一覺醒來發現就這個好像可以演兩週今天早上剛剛我看那個股市又開始大漲所以對於美國這個"},{"start":52.518,"end":81.236,"text":"好像態度很特別不曉得國安單位對於跟美方的關係上有沒有什麼特別的看法今天早上還在跟媒體做說明中東的情勢是我們跟國際友盟交換情資一個重點的議題大概美方在過程當中他很強調實力為原則所以在第一波的軍事打擊幾乎把伊朗的海空軍都給做了癱瘓但是伊朗因為透過不對稱的方式持續的來對赫姆茲海峽的航運安全進行洗腦而增加他的一個談判的籌碼"},{"start":82.116,"end":111.258,"text":"那美國大概兩個重點跟委員做報告一個部分是軍事上的極限施壓因為他大概調派了這些兩棲攻擊艦、登陸艦集結到中東地區去那也給了最後的讓步的一個期限那第二部分他也透過外交穿梭的方式透過巴基斯坦還有其他中東國家在跟伊朗進行必要的一個相關的談判所以可能在極限施壓跟談判兩手策略之下那有今天早上的結果那在川普總統宣布之後伊朗外長也證實了未來兩週可能荷姆斯艾俠的"},{"start":111.878,"end":138.384,"text":"會OK嗎就是今天為什麼股市會大漲因為我也是同學界來其實我們都在查資料的時候都會看很多各個面向的狀況不過最近看美國這個除了它是為了和平有些不為了美國的利益也可能是它重要的一個考慮之一我也建議這個很多可能要納入考慮所以這個基本上這個可以看到我們在報告書裡面有提到這個是2026裡面的一些"},{"start":140.985,"end":165.638,"text":"他的一些戰略美國戰略的一個考慮不過在我們去查了這個2026這個版本裡面包含他的一些國家的戰略報告也有在第二頁安全戰略或者是國防戰略裡面其實我們最近好像發現美國的他的戰略好像有一些做一些改變好像慢慢慢慢過去這個2014 2018左右他們好像都是把那個中國的威脅"},{"start":166.759,"end":173.084,"text":"跟委員說明一下在國防政會裡面他確實有強調本土防衛跟西半球的防衛但他緊接著馬上又提到的是英泰安全的關注"},{"start":188.798,"end":206.649,"text":"畢竟我們看到是公開版可能也有在政治上他們做一些取捨因為後續還是有川習會的一個互動盡量沒有在文字上做一些相關不必要的一個強調不過實際上在戰略布局上委員假如有稍微看一下我們的報告有去說明到"},{"start":207.009,"end":233.96,"text":"美國在過程當中怎麼樣來加強跟印太友盟在安保議題防衛議題的合作那這部分不只是雙邊合作多邊的演訓也非常的綿密光這個月在菲律賓應該就有三個場次的美盟的大規模的演訓人數都快到兩萬人之多我瞭解就是感覺上跟美國的這個合作還是非常綿密啦不過就是有一些這種報告像我剛剛這個我現在在投影片上CSS這個部分好像看起來很多的用詞"},{"start":235.16,"end":252.897,"text":"真的都比較軟了 互相尊重啊然後這個中國保持互相尊重的關係減少一些不必要的對抗我想局長應該有看到這些報告那剛才郭委員說明因為他後續還有領導人的會晤所以也有鋪陳一些比較正面的外交氣氛那不過在安全"},{"start":253.638,"end":265.292,"text":"戰略上美國跟我們反制中國的一些作為具體的作為一直有在檯面下推動所以這個也是啦我想國內也非常關心這個川習會的狀況啦我想局長怎麼看現在大概的狀況"},{"start":266.743,"end":295.556,"text":"對 目前大概基本上他們彼此的爭議的議題都是結構性的那我們在報告當中也特別提到了這包括地緣政治的問題 軍事的競爭高科技管制的問題最重要的是還有經貿的議題 關稅的議題所以問題林林總總的那都涉及結構性所以結構性就是說短期要根本的解決不容易那但是現在美國所採取的策略跟方法是來管理這些爭議那他們認為跟中國要管理爭議的話一定要鎖定習近平"},{"start":296.076,"end":318.864,"text":"因為他是最大領導人你跟官僚溝通接觸沒有用所以一定要跟習近平之間有這樣的領導人會晤的機制所以我看美國方面也為了這次的川習會有做一些相關的一個準備那不過我們的判斷是因為這些結構性的問題都還在所以可能重點是在於看他們怎麼來管理爭議那可能這次川習會之後我們反倒更"},{"start":320.024,"end":346.606,"text":"關注的重點是在於習近平後續的回訪因為川習會他只是一個開場針對這些議題雙方去表述立場跟意見可是到了習近平回訪美國的時候可能又到了另外一個階段要檢視有沒有在川習會當中相關的承諾有去落實包括美國要開放希望中國開放相關美國農產品進入市場到時候會被檢驗所以我想這是一個動態的過程那我們會繼續來注重"},{"start":348.007,"end":377.687,"text":"因為這個軍購的事情我這個今年一月我也陪著我們的主席到美國去啦那我這一條影片就是美國情報社的一些這個就針對中國的威脅啦那看起來很多他都講到所謂這個2027嘛我們一直在討論這個事情這跟我們的軍購有關看起來其實他們很多現在內部這個情報社他們好像感覺上他們不覺得剛剛局長有說啦可能跟營造一個好的川習會會有關係啦所以我也希望局長對這個美國這邊的一些態度啦可能要有一些掌握啦"},{"start":378.627,"end":388.854,"text":"因為這個真的是川普他這個很多的策略其實看不大懂對 這一部分我們大概跟國際理念相近國家都有保持密切的溝通"},{"start":389.793,"end":409.251,"text":"那就是在我們的那個報告裡面其實有很多這個擾台的部分包括不論是空軍、海軍或者一些漁船或是它關閉一些訊號那這個局長是不是還是可以跟我們的國人講說我們那個國安單我們都有密切的掌握可以報告大家跟大家說一下就是我們大家都有掌握的"},{"start":409.871,"end":424.556,"text":"有這部分在涉密的報告閉門會當中有跟委員做充分的說明包括我們運用各種的親自來源來掌握中共包括共軍還有海上會在洗腦的整體的動態我想這個全民都非常非常關注"},{"start":425.256,"end":442.368,"text":"另外就是資安的部分就是這個這次報告裡面有一個就是一劑因為可能現在一劑而已大概一億七千多萬不過我們過去看過去的報告大概每天大概兩百八十萬次這樣乘起來好像最近還變比較少是不是數字上有一些不是那麼精準"},{"start":443.028,"end":462.478,"text":"我跟委員說明一下我們在今年的一月中旬有公布一個去年整年的中共對台資安侵擾的狀況對 平均每天嘛對 那個每天是兩百八十萬次因為它是一整年的一個數據的統計的結果那但是我們這一次在業務報告當中所公布的就第一季就這一季那特別第一季當中還有涉及到"},{"start":463.72,"end":479.438,"text":"年假我知道 我知道年假的部分會比較少對 會比較少所以我們只是針對第一季的總數來做一些呈現那到了年底我們會再把整年的狀況來做一個就是讓我們大概知道一下我們知道這個狀況蠻多的嘛就是這個數字可能還是請局長再出來的時候做一些那個"},{"start":480.178,"end":505.79,"text":"那當然我看到前面很多委員都非常關注這個東西啦就是這個共諜案的部分我想就是還是請因為發生非常非常多而且很多人都是蠻重要的位置啦不想局長這個其實剛剛那個金鵬仔裡面有提到一些啦現在我們是不是可以強化一些我們的相關的作為就可以跟大家報告的部分好那這部分中共對台的一些滲透啦還有前功活動大概都是系統性的"},{"start":507.035,"end":523.142,"text":"針對性的跟計劃性的那所謂的系統性的指的是它包括國安系統勤工系統統戰系統他們都有一個非常綿密的組織來推動對台的這些情收次密或發展組織的工作第二個它是計劃性的也就是它都有發展出"},{"start":523.582,"end":539.893,"text":"一套的網絡來接觸可能稱為他在台協力者的來自台灣各界的一個人士的一個脫交流來篩選特定的對象他是有計畫性的有時候只是統戰的活動但是從統戰活動當中又去發展出他的情搜的一個網絡"},{"start":540.994,"end":561.272,"text":"那第三個部分是針對性的那早期大概主要針對的會是軍中比較中階的軍官因為中階軍官比較會接觸到涉密的情資那但是現在我們感覺到他的接觸已經開始往基層的士官兵來做接觸所以委員可能也注意到一些共諜案大概這一部分感覺上的那個"},{"start":563.033,"end":590.611,"text":"就是最近我想全民都有這種感覺啦而且很多人是涉及到一些精免資料的啦那也是請這個局長這邊再多多的這個關照這個事情有有 剛剛蔡秉偉有跟委員長報告也建議立法院這邊可能可以有一個法治規範來推動相關的保防還有反情報的工作對對 因為也不只立法院啦因為有其他 當然當然所以希望這個局長能夠多加把勁能夠把這個地方 應該的能鞏固 維護這個台灣的國家安全好 這是我們工作 希望會有提醒謝謝"},{"start":591.995,"end":592.036,"text":"謝謝大家"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:54:50.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:54:59.308000+08:00","text":"主席早，請蔡局長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T10:54:59.308000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:55:00.308000+08:00","text":"請蔡局長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:54:59.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:54:59.809000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:54:59.809000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:55:01.089000+08:00","text":"王委員早。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:55:01.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:55:01.269000+08:00","text":"局長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:55:03.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:55:12.076000+08:00","text":"就國家安全來說，因為我們現在受到中國很大的威脅，美國對我們來說應該是非常重要的戰略夥伴。當然。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:55:12.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:55:21.822000+08:00","text":"所以在這份公開的報告裡面，第一頁就看到美國的部分，基本上他們採用的就是所謂的以實力追求和平。對。","quality":0.705},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:55:22.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:55:39.796000+08:00","text":"不過這幾天大家都看到，美國真的深不可測，昨天晚上還是一副要打的樣子，今天早上我們一覺醒來又發現好像可以延兩週，剛剛看今天早上股市又開始大漲。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:55:40.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:55:47.521000+08:00","text":"美國的態度好像很特別，國安單位認為我們和美方的關係有沒有什麼特別的地方？","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:55:48.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:56:11.236000+08:00","text":"今天早上還在向媒體說明，中東情勢是我們和國際友盟交換情資的重點議題，美方在這個過程當中很強調以實力為原則，所以第一波的軍事打擊幾乎把伊朗的海空軍都癱瘓了，但是伊朗透過不對稱的方式，持續對荷姆茲海峽的航運安全進行襲擾，增加他們談判的籌碼。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:56:12.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:56:23.925000+08:00","text":"美國的部分大概兩個重點向委員報告，一個部分是軍事上的極限施壓，因為他們調派兩棲攻擊艦、登陸艦集結到中東地區，也給了最後讓步的期限。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:56:24.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:56:36.674000+08:00","text":"第二部分，他們也採取外交穿梭的方式，透過巴基斯坦和其他中東國家和伊朗進行必要的相關談判，所以可能在極限施壓和談判的兩手策略之下，有了今天早上的結果。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:56:36.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:56:41.238000+08:00","text":"在川普總統宣布之後，伊朗外長也證實了，未來兩週荷姆茲海峽的安全……","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:56:41.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:56:42.078000+08:00","text":"會OK嘛？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:56:42.078000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:56:43.078000+08:00","text":"會，OK的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:56:43.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:56:45.379000+08:00","text":"這就是今天為什麼股市會大漲。是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:56:45.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:57:03.763000+08:00","text":"因為我也是從學界來的，其實我們在查資料的時候都會看各個面向的狀況，不過最近看美國這件事情，他們除了因為和平，為了美國的利益可能也是他們重要的考慮之一，我建議這可能也要納入考慮。好。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:57:03.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:57:13.726000+08:00","text":"所以基本上可以看到你們在報告書裡面也有提到，這是2026美國戰略的考慮。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:57:13.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:57:21.070000+08:00","text":"不過在我們查的2026這個版本裡面，在你們的報告裡面也有啦！","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:57:21.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:57:35.638000+08:00","text":"在第二頁的安全戰略或者是國防戰略，其實我們最近發現，美國的戰略好像有做一些改變，好像有在慢慢的變化，過去在2014年、2018年左右，他們好像都是把中國的威脅放在非常前面，過去的拜登政府也是一樣，最近他們好像一直把本土防衛和西半球的防衛往前挪，反而是把中國放在第二，局長對這個情資應該也有掌握吧？","quality":0.434},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:57:37.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:57:43.064000+08:00","text":"向委員說明一下，在國防戰略裡面，他們確實有強調本土防衛和西半球的防衛，但他們緊接著馬上又提到對印太安全的關注。是。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:57:58.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:58:11.426000+08:00","text":"畢竟我們看到的是公開版，可能在政治上，他們也有做一些取捨，因為後續還是有川習會的互動，所以儘量沒有在文字上做一些相關或不必要的強調。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:58:11.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:58:33.636000+08:00","text":"不過實際上在戰略布局上，委員假如有稍微看一下我們的報告，我們有說明到美國在這個過程當中，怎麼加強和印太友盟在安保議題、防衛議題的合作，這部分不只是雙邊合作，多邊的演訓也非常綿密，光這個月在菲律賓應該就有三個場次的美盟大規模演訓，人數都快達到2萬人之多。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:58:33.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:58:38.017000+08:00","text":"對，我了解，感覺上和美國的合作還是非常綿密啦！","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:58:38.017000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:58:39.017000+08:00","text":"有，這是存在的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:58:38.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:58:53.688000+08:00","text":"不過有些這類的報告，像我今天準備的投影片CSIS這個部分，看起來好像很多用詞真的都比較軟了，譬如和中國保持互相尊重的關係、減少一些不必要的對抗。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:58:53.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:58:55.510000+08:00","text":"我想局長應該也有看到這些報告。對。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:58:56.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:59:01.816000+08:00","text":"剛剛也有向委員說明，因為他們後續還有領導人的會晤，所以也有鋪陳一些比較正面的外交氣氛。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:59:02.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:59:10.126000+08:00","text":"不過在安全戰略上，美國和友盟反制中國的一些具體作為一直有在檯面下推動。是。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:59:10.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:59:11.087000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分也是啦！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T10:59:11.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:59:15.292000+08:00","text":"我想國人也非常關心川習會的狀況，局長怎麼看現在的狀況？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:59:18.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:59:33.771000+08:00","text":"基本上他們彼此爭議的議題都是結構性的，我們在報告當中也特別提到，包括地緣政治的問題、軍事的競爭、高科技管制的問題，最重要的還有經貿的議題、關稅的議題，問題林林總總，都涉及結構性。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:59:33.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:59:46.976000+08:00","text":"所謂的結構性就是說，短期要根本解決不容易，現在美國所採取的策略和方法是管理這些爭議，他們認為和中國之間，如果要管理爭議的話，一定要鎖定習近平，因為他是最高領導人。是，對。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:59:47.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:59:52.678000+08:00","text":"你和官僚溝通、接觸沒有用，所以和習近平之間一定要有這樣的領導人會晤機制。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T10:59:53.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:00:13.107000+08:00","text":"我看美國方面為了這一次的川習會也有做一些相關的準備，不過我們的判斷是因為這些結構性的問題都還在，所以重點可能是在於看他們怎麼來管理爭議，除了這次的川習會，之後我們更關注的重點反倒是在於習近平後續的回訪……","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:00:13.107000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:00:14.107000+08:00","text":"沒錯、沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:00:13.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:00:36.526000+08:00","text":"因為川習會只是一個開場，針對這些議題雙方去表述立場跟意見，到了習近平回訪美國的時候可能又到了另外一個階段，要檢視在川習會當中的相關承諾有沒有去落實，包括美國希望中國開放相關美國農產品進入市場，到時候會被檢驗，所以我想這是一個動態的過程，我們會繼續來注蒐相關的發展。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:00:38.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:01:07.447000+08:00","text":"因為軍購的事情，今年1月我也陪著我們的主席到美國去了，我這些投影片就是美國情報社群針對中國威脅的一些資料，看起來很多都講到所謂的2027，我們也一直在討論這個事情，這跟我們的軍購有關，看起來現在他們很多內部、情報社群的感覺上，他們不覺得……剛剛局長說了，可能跟要營造一個好的川習會有關係，所以我也希望局長對美國這邊的態度可能要有一些掌握。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:01:07.447000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:01:08.627000+08:00","text":"有，都有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:01:08.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:01:13.190000+08:00","text":"因為川普的很多策略其實看不大懂。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:01:15.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:01:18.834000+08:00","text":"對，這部分我們大概跟國際理念相近國家都有保持密切的溝通。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:01:20.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:01:29.802000+08:00","text":"在你們的報告裡面有提到很多中共擾臺的部分，不論是空軍、海軍或者一些漁船，或是他關閉一些訊號。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:01:30.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:01:34.386000+08:00","text":"局長，是不是可以跟我們國人講說我們國安單位都有密切掌握……有。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:01:36.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:01:39.091000+08:00","text":"可以報告的跟大家說一下，我們大概都有掌握到？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:01:40.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:01:52.215000+08:00","text":"對，這個部分在涉密報告的閉門會議當中有跟委員做充分說明，包括我們運用各種情資來源來掌握中共包括共軍還有海上灰帶襲擾的整體動態。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:01:52.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:01:54.536000+08:00","text":"對，我想這個全民都非常非常關注。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:01:55.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:02:12.348000+08:00","text":"另外就是資安的部分，這次的報告裡面提到一季遭侵擾約一億七千多萬次，因為今年到現在才一季而已，不過我們看過去的報告，每天大概是280萬次，這樣乘起來好像最近還變得比較少，是不是數字上有一些不是那麼精準？","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:02:13.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:02:19.972000+08:00","text":"不會、不會，我跟委員說明一下，我們在今年1月中旬有公布去年整年中共對臺資安侵擾的狀況……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:02:19.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:02:21.172000+08:00","text":"平均每天嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:02:21.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:02:29.356000+08:00","text":"對，那個每天是280萬次，因為它是一整年的數據統計結果，但是我們這一次在業務報告當中所公布的只有第一季……","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:02:29.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:02:30.437000+08:00","text":"就這一季嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:02:30.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:02:35.462000+08:00","text":"對，就第一季，特別第一季當中還有涉及年假的部分……","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:02:35.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:02:35.862000+08:00","text":"我知道，會比較少。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:02:36.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:02:36.824000+08:00","text":"對，會比較少。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:02:37.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:02:41.949000+08:00","text":"我們只是針對第一季的總數來做呈現，到了年底，我們還會再把整年的狀況來做分析。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:02:43.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:02:49.257000+08:00","text":"好，就是讓我們大概知道一下，我們知道這個狀況滿多的，這個數字可能還是請局長在出來的時候做一些公布。會。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:02:50.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:03:07.546000+08:00","text":"當然，我看到前面很多委員都非常關注共諜案的部分，因為發生了非常非常多，而且很多人都是在滿重要的位置，局長，其實在剛剛的機密報告裡面有提到一些，你們是不是可以強化一些相關的作為，請就可以跟大家報告的部分說明一下？","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:03:08.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:03:28.720000+08:00","text":"好，中共對臺的一些滲透，還有情工活動，大概都是系統性的、針對性的跟計畫性的，所謂系統性的指的是包括國安系統、情工系統、統戰系統，他們都有一個非常綿密的組織來推動對臺的情蒐刺密或發展組織的工作。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:03:29.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:03:49.893000+08:00","text":"第二個是計畫性的，也就是它都有發展出一套網絡來接觸可能成為它在臺的協力者、來自臺灣各界的人士，透過交流來篩選特定的對象，它是有計畫性的，有時候只是統戰的活動，但是從統戰活動當中又去發展出情蒐的網絡。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:03:51.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:10.751000+08:00","text":"第三個部分是針對性的，早期大概主要針對的會是軍中比較中階的軍官，因為中階軍官比較會接觸到涉密的情資，但是現在我們感覺到他們已經開始往基層士官兵去做接觸，所以委員可能也注意到一些共諜案，大概這一部分感覺上是越來越多，那樣的案件越來越多。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:13.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:14.934000+08:00","text":"對，最近以來，我想全民都有這種感覺啦。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:14.934000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:15.934000+08:00","text":"對，是這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:15.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:22.099000+08:00","text":"而且很多人是涉及到一些機敏資料，也請局長這邊再多多關照這個事情。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:22.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:29.724000+08:00","text":"有，我剛剛在閉門會議有跟委員做報告，也建議立法院這邊可能可以有一個法制規範來推動相關的保防、反情報的工作。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:29.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:31.465000+08:00","text":"對，也不只立法院，還有其他的……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:31.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:32.065000+08:00","text":"當然、當然。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:32.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:38.690000+08:00","text":"所以希望局長能夠多加把勁，把這個地方鞏固好，以維護臺灣的國家安全。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:39.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:40.591000+08:00","text":"好，應該的，這是我們的工作，謝謝王委員提醒。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:40.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:41.995000+08:00","text":"好，感謝。謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:42.495000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:44.780714+08:00","text":"我們現在休息6分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:45.080714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:46.223571+08:00","text":"休息（11時4分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:46.523571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:48.237857+08:00","text":"繼續開會（11時12分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:48.537857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:50.252143+08:00","text":"我們繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T11:04:50.552143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:04:53.123571+08:00","text":"接下來請王定宇委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}