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如果你一直解決這些問題其實最根本的解決方法我們大家都知道 就是修憲修憲然後公投修憲後的 對 就是修憲後的 這個是最基本解決的我們今天如果只有處理這一塊還有很多的權力 他們沒有辦法拿到我簡單舉一個例子就好了"},{"start":94.619,"end":100.673,"text":"如果你修憲公投你修憲之後18歲可不可以參加國家考試"},{"start":103.556,"end":129.43,"text":"18歲可不可以參加國家考試 好像不行可以吧 可以啊 因為你已經下修18歲啦他有這些成年的資格啦就當公務員 對啊考試服公職 是可以啊對不對 如果你修憲過後你18歲 而且很多國家也是18歲就可以啦對不對 我舉這個就是一個很明顯的例子就是說我們都不反對18歲有公民權"},{"start":130.33,"end":139.981,"text":"但不是這樣子挖一塊補一塊挖一塊補一塊最主要的是我們如果修憲之後很多的權力他可以一次倒位對不對部長"},{"start":144.393,"end":161.681,"text":"應該是說除了選罷法以外你要把憲法下面跟18歲的公民權應該有的權利義務一致來考量那這樣子的話對於我們賦予年輕人他所有的整體的完整的公民權益的保障才會比較完整"},{"start":162.501,"end":191.36,"text":"對啦 我的意思就是這樣嘛你既然要18歲 你就是有公民權你應該要給他的權利優惠一次到位我的意思就是這樣嘛那我們都不反對啊那都不反對的情況下 你今天只處理這一個我覺得還是掛一漏萬 還有很多那我們當然不反對 但是我們還是要在這邊要講要走正途啦 做實事啦要嘛 就是修憲一次把它解決"},{"start":193.041,"end":206.848,"text":"我的看法是這樣啦不知道部長你覺得勒是 我想我們對於年輕人希望有18歲的公民權大概每個黨的立委都贊成但是這一次的這個選罷法的修正案"},{"start":208.068,"end":233.558,"text":"除了民眾黨黨團是異形的這個部分以外其他的國民黨黨團或民進黨黨團並沒有黨團的修正案出來所以我想說可能各個黨團在考量到是不是屬於憲法下面的要保障18歲公民權還有很多有待這個心格的部分有待商量所以我們才會建議說是不是可以透過公聽的方式來聽聽各種不同的法學者的意見"},{"start":234.654,"end":254.49,"text":"對啦 法律的程序的完備也是一件我們要考量的事情這是另外程序上的要考量那另外 部長如果啦 我們在這個會期如果啦 18歲就這個選八法我們如果修正18歲"},{"start":256.498,"end":282.977,"text":"預估啦 預估啦年底多出來的這個選舉人口大概好幾十萬吧應該四五十萬有吧報告委員你講的沒有錯齁選舉人預估增加四十一萬一千七百三十一人如果我們下修十八歲那其中六都所佔的比例非常的高也就是說我們考慮到說選舉年齡馬上下修然後馬上用到今年年底的選舉的時候呢其實對於每個黨"},{"start":285.519,"end":300.832,"text":"這個我覺得我要問的就是因為今天中選會有沒有但選政機構也是內政部嘛那選務當然是中選會跟地方選委會要去處理的但"},{"start":302.133,"end":313.379,"text":"我個人認為你忽然多出了這麼多這個選舉的作業期程來不來得及啊這個可能要問中選會那個中選會我剛請教的如果說一下子增加了那麼多好幾十萬 四十幾萬人那你們的造冊你們的這些東西來不來得及"},{"start":332.663,"end":354.562,"text":"報告委員 那個選舉人名冊造冊依法是在投票日的前20天要完成那前20天的話 那今年是在11月28日投票那如果是在這之前的話 應該是如果在戶籍登記資料上都有這些增加了選舉人的資料 這應該是可以完成的但是這個會增加了很多的選舉經費 例如說選舉票然後這些部分 還有選舉公報這些這些經費都會增加以上"},{"start":362.002,"end":369.06,"text":"除了經費等等增加之外你的投開票所的配置你不用重新檢討嗎"},{"start":370.693,"end":393.76,"text":"這個部分因為因應這個投票人數的增加那這部分都需要再檢討包括說投外票所是否要增設那投外票所裡面的工作人員是不是要增加這些都是要一併檢討以上不是啦這一併檢討所以我說啊這些增加的什麼這些你認為忽然這樣子的話地方選舉委員會有沒有能力負擔"},{"start":395.13,"end":410.311,"text":"這可能會比較倉促一些會比較倉促一些會比較倉促一些嘛對嘛其實有辦過實際選舉的人都知道如果忽然這樣這個整個民政體系的壓力會非常非常的大"},{"start":411.612,"end":438.53,"text":"這個造冊不是那個隨便寫一寫的然後你的選票運製你的投開票所的設置什麼要重新檢討耶甚至你的投票箱也有可能要增加設置是不是啊是這方面是是嘛所以在這種情況之下你們如果有遇見到如果有這種你們現在開始作業來得及嗎"},{"start":440.937,"end":464.431,"text":"何志強請問你不要到時候選舉有問題喔來得及嗎目前如果說能及早知道這個修法通過的與否的話那現在開始啟動檢討作業應該是還可以來得及你確定喔你有跟地方縣市選委會溝通過了嗎你有去問過他們的意見了嗎目前我們還沒有跟地方選委溝通過對啊那你幫人家回答"},{"start":466.719,"end":490.895,"text":"縣市選委會你都沒有問過你幫人家回答啊出了問題責任你要扛還是他們扛這個部分我們會再檢討不是啊你剛剛回答的你要檢討什麼啊是你剛剛回答的餒對不對啊如果有問題你要負責任喔這個部分我們會再重新做來評估你不能這樣講對不對我是在地方辦過選舉的人餒"},{"start":493.22,"end":510.34,"text":"對不對 我知道的那個複雜欸你這樣隨便一句話 你就丟給人家地方選務機構出了問題他扛 你就這樣一句話我覺得不對欸 對不對地方選務機關 中選會要求我們做什麼 我們一定全力以赴"},{"start":511.101,"end":538.389,"text":"但以我的經驗 像這種重大的事情或是要這樣事先都要請他們大家來開會來討論有什麼問題吧 是不是這是標準的吧是 是這樣子是嘛 對嘛所以在這裡立法院回答我認為不應該這麼草率 這麼隨便不能把責任推給別人到時候有問題 沒有我們公文上面都怎麼寫的是他們辦不好 我覺得這樣不負責任不對的啦"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:03:30+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:03:31+08:00","text":"我請部長。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T10:03:31+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:03:32+08:00","text":"麻煩劉部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-08T10:03:32+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:03:33+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:03:30.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:03:59.394000+08:00","text":"部長，今天大家有討論18歲、要修選罷法的問題，其實我們之前修青年基本法、公投等等，這個問題都有討論過。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:03:59.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:18.932000+08:00","text":"我想請問部長，如果我們修了選舉罷免法，可以解決青年18歲就可以參與選舉、罷免、創制、複決的權利，對不對？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:18.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:35.582000+08:00","text":"在法制上面，恐怕還是欠缺憲法這一塊，其實選罷法修正以後，當然是可以照行，但是還是會有欠缺，所以在社會上的共識還沒有形成，或是憲法法學學者還沒有共識形成的時候，我覺得我們不宜下定論。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:37.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:47.046000+08:00","text":"我要問的問題是，如果你只解決這些問題，其實最根本的解決方法我們大家都知道，就是修憲就可以解決。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:47.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:04:49.547000+08:00","text":"修憲然後公投。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:04:51.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:00.411000+08:00","text":"對啊，就是修憲，這是最基本解決的方式，我們今天如果只有處理這一塊，還有很多的權利他們沒有辦法拿到，對不對？","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:01.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:15.217000+08:00","text":"我簡單舉一個例子就好了，修憲之後，18歲可不可以參加國家考試？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:15.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:15.617000+08:00","text":"好像不行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:16.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:16.338000+08:00","text":"可以吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:17.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:17.678000+08:00","text":"可以啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:17.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:22.261000+08:00","text":"因為你已經下修到18歲啦，他已經有成年的資格啦。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:22.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:24.262000+08:00","text":"就當公務員。對啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:24.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:25.622000+08:00","text":"考試、服公職。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:25.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:26.063000+08:00","text":"是可以啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:26.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:26.983000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:27.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:32.206000+08:00","text":"修憲過後，而且很多國家也是18歲就可以啦。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:33.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:05:49.981000+08:00","text":"我舉這個就是一個很明顯的例子，就是我們都不反對18歲有公民權，但不是這樣挖一塊補一塊、挖一塊補一塊，最主要是我們修憲之後很多的權利要可以一次到位，對不對？部長。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-08T10:05:54.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:06:11.661000+08:00","text":"應該是說除了選罷法以外，你要把憲法下跟18歲的公民權及應該有的權利義務一致來考量，那這樣子的話，對於我們賦予年輕人所有公民權益的保障才會比較完整。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:06:12.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:06:45.623000+08:00","text":"對啦，我的意思就是這樣，既然要18歲就有公民權，你應該要給他的權利義務一次到位，我的意思就是就是這樣，我們都不反對，在都不反對的情況下，你今天只處理這一個，我覺得還是掛一漏萬，我們當然不反對，但是我們在這邊還是要講要走正途、做實事，要嘛就是修憲，一次把它解決，我的看法是這樣，不知道部長你覺得呢？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-08T10:06:47.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:07:23.558000+08:00","text":"我想對於年輕人18歲就有公民權，大概每個黨的立委都贊成，但是這一次選罷法的修正案，除了民眾黨黨團是易刑的部分以外，國民黨黨團或民進黨黨團並沒有黨團的修正案出來，所以我想可能各個黨團在考量到是不是屬於憲法下要保障18歲公民權還有很多有待興革的部分有待商量，所以我們才會建議，是不是可以透過公聽的方式來聽聽不同法學者的意見。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:07:24.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:07:28.277000+08:00","text":"對啦，法律程序的完備也是一件我們要考量的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:07:32.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:07:53.603000+08:00","text":"另外，部長，如果我們在這個會期修正選罷法，規定18歲就具有公民權，預估年底多出來的選舉人口大概好幾十萬吧？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:07:54.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:07:55.344000+08:00","text":"應該有四、五十萬吧？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-08T10:07:55.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:08:12.977000+08:00","text":"報告委員，你講得沒有錯，如果我們將公民年齡下修到18歲，選舉人預估增加41萬1,731人，其中六都所占的比例非常高，我們考慮到選舉年齡下修，然後馬上用到今年年底的選舉，其實對於每個黨的正負意見都會有。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:08:16.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:08:38.916000+08:00","text":"我要問的就是，因為今天中選會也沒有……但選政機構也是內政部，選務當然是中選會跟地方選委會要去處理的，但我個人認為忽然多出了這麼多選舉的作業期程，來不來得及？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-08T10:08:39.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:08:40.257000+08:00","text":"這個可能要問中選會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:08:40.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:08:43.359000+08:00","text":"中選會，我剛剛請教如果一下子增加了四十幾萬人，那你們造冊等等作業來不來得及？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王處長曉麟","start":"2026-04-08T10:09:02.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:09:20.939000+08:00","text":"報告委員，選舉人名冊造冊依法是在投票日的前20天要完成，今年是在11月28日投票，前20天的話，如果在戶籍登記資料上都有這些增加的選舉人資料，這應該是可以完成的。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"王處長曉麟","start":"2026-04-08T10:09:21.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:09:24.502000+08:00","text":"但是這會增加很多的選舉經費，例如選舉票還有選舉公報的經費都會增加。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:09:32.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:09:39.060000+08:00","text":"不，除了經費增加之外，投開票所的配置等不用重新檢討嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"王處長曉麟","start":"2026-04-08T10:09:40.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:09:51.736000+08:00","text":"這個部分因為因應投票人數的增加，都需要再檢討，包括投票所是否要增設、投票所裡面的工作人員是不是要增加，這些都要一併檢討。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:09:52.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:03.760000+08:00","text":"不是啦，這一併檢討，所以我說這些增加的，你認為忽然這樣的話，地方選舉委員會有沒有能力負擔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王處長曉麟","start":"2026-04-08T10:10:05.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:06.633000+08:00","text":"這可能會比較倉促一些。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:10:08.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:10.898000+08:00","text":"會比較倉促一些，對嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:10:11.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:28.477000+08:00","text":"其實有實際辦過選舉的人都知道，如果忽然這樣，整個民政體系的壓力會非常非常大，造冊不是隨便寫一寫的，然後選票印製、投開票所的設置等都要重新檢討，對不對？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:10:30.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:34.081000+08:00","text":"甚至你的投票箱也有可能要增加設置，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王處長曉麟","start":"2026-04-08T10:10:36.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:36.802000+08:00","text":"是，這方面是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:10:39.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:48.530000+08:00","text":"所以在這種情況之下，你們有預見到……你們現在開始作業來得及嗎？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:10:51.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:10:55.580000+08:00","text":"你不要到時候選舉有問題，來得及嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王處長曉麟","start":"2026-04-08T10:10:55.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:11:03.825000+08:00","text":"目前如果能及早知道這個修法通過與否的話，現在開始啟動檢討作業，應該是還可以來得及。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:11:03.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:11:04.445000+08:00","text":"你確定喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:11:05.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:11:08.747000+08:00","text":"你有跟地方縣市選委會溝通過了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:11:08.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:11:10.608000+08:00","text":"你有去問過他們的意見了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王處長曉麟","start":"2026-04-08T10:11:10.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:11:13.110000+08:00","text":"目前我們還沒有跟地方選委會……對啊！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:11:13.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:11:14.411000+08:00","text":"那你幫人家回答！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:11:16.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:11:21.482000+08:00","text":"縣市選委會你都沒有問過，你幫人家回答，出了問題責任你要扛還是他們扛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王處長曉麟","start":"2026-04-08T10:11:22.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:11:24.084000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們會再檢討。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:11:24.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:11:26.405000+08:00","text":"不是啦，你剛剛回答的，你要檢討什麼啦？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:11:27.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:11:30.708000+08:00","text":"是你剛剛回答的，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:11:30.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:11:31.969000+08:00","text":"如果有問題，你要負責任。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王處長曉麟","start":"2026-04-08T10:11:33.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:11:35.791000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們會再重新評估。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:11:36.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:11:55.334000+08:00","text":"你不能這樣講，我是在地方辦過選舉的人耶，我知道那個複雜，你這樣隨便一句話就丟給地方選務機構，出了問題他扛，你就這樣一句話，我覺得不對耶！","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:11:56.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:12:08.623000+08:00","text":"中選會要求地方選務機關做什麼，他們一定全力以赴，但以我的經驗，像這種重大的事情，事先都要請他們大家來開會協調，看有什麼問題，是不是？","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:12:09.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:12:10.284000+08:00","text":"這是標準的吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王處長曉麟","start":"2026-04-08T10:12:11.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:12:13.565000+08:00","text":"是，是這樣子。是嘛！對嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-08T10:12:14.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:12:28.369000+08:00","text":"所以在立法院回答，我認為不應該這麼草率、這麼隨便，不能把責任推給別人，到時候有問題又說沒有，我們公文上面都怎麼寫的，是他們辦不好，我覺得這樣不負責任是不對的啦！","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T10:12:28.869000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:12:32.011857+08:00","text":"下一位請王鴻薇委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}