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謝謝主席 我們請局長來 局長請"},{"start":10.6,"end":28.887,"text":"其實明天是我們針對國防的特別條例有朝野協商那在朝野協商部分當然有跟秦珍相關的部分因為這次的國防特別條例也都有所以這也跟國安局的業務是相關那我在這邊是很誠摯的希望我們所有在野黨的委員們能夠一同來參與這樣子的討論就算"},{"start":31.604,"end":47.294,"text":"這一次的協商沒有共識但下一次我們可以慢慢的一起摸索出對國家有幫助的道路所以我在這邊還是誠摯的呼籲特別是我們年輕的這個在野黨的委員們我相信他們也很願意跟我們來做討論那也是很誠摯的希望明天有這個機會"},{"start":48.254,"end":62.365,"text":"那再來想要請教一下這個局長關於政協會的部分在前夕政協會前夕中共突然有這個突破突然突然設定了這一個無限高的禁飛區40天你有沒有得到政官的資訊你覺得這是持續性作戰戰備的態勢嗎"},{"start":64.426,"end":75.172,"text":"這次劃設的空域保留區,大概是在江浙外海的空域時間是3月28日到5月6日我們注意到劃設有五個區塊,範圍蠻大的,時間也蠻長的判斷在軍事上可能有點用來反制外國的軍機在該空域的活動狀況"},{"start":84.797,"end":102.503,"text":"當然外國有能力軍機在當地活動主要還是以美國為主另外在政治上因為時間剛好截止到川習會的前一個禮拜所以也有可能在這段時間來測試跟試探美國在相關空域活動的一個狀況也做一些政治上的一個"},{"start":103.563,"end":130.414,"text":"試水溫跟試碳好 謝謝局長那第二個問題就是剛才我們不斷地在討論的關於就是共諜案很多不管是國會的有些是可能是在國會的助理有些可能是在行政的機關甚至是最高的機關那都有那我們一直想問的是說有沒有機會讓助理能夠有機會能夠接受這個安全查核但是需要有法源那這個法源的部分我們其實有提出的這個國家機密"},{"start":131.874,"end":154.415,"text":"保護法第十四條的修正草案那在裡面呢我還是要強調我們還是希望說有行政院 由行政院院板提出來一個跨部會的一個算是一個條例因為我們自己思考的方式可能沒有那麼完整那其實我們有邀請這個法規局立法院的法規局也來去做相關的討論那他不是只有政府人員"},{"start":155.436,"end":175.921,"text":"它已經擴大到約聘人員到這個國防的廠商廠商的承包人員到任何涉密的人員一般民眾它不是要傷害人民的權利而是說如果你想要接觸這些機密你就先要得到這些核可所以它是權利而不是義務而不是傷害到人民的這些權利"},{"start":176.521,"end":199.377,"text":"這個有點不太一樣 為什麼說美國他們拿到安全合格視為是一種榮譽就代表說你的忠誠有被合格了那你的財務紀錄 你的犯罪紀錄 你的個人等這些所有的紀錄都是經過合格的所以我也看到我之前有問說這個國安局針對這些在廠區你們國安局內如果有一些設施維護的話"},{"start":200.738,"end":217.206,"text":"這些進入營區的廠商人員是不是要經過安全查核那你們的回覆說明是要是可以的那這些人他既不是公務員他不是公務員的身份但他可以接受查核所以我認為是說最快的方法是思考到底有沒有哪些行政命令可以讓"},{"start":218.106,"end":232.365,"text":"包含像我們國會有一些自願想要接受安全查核因為他可能會接觸到一些機密的人能夠接受這樣子的查核這才可以避免說每次只要亦有相關的這個供點案件的話我們朝野就是互相指責你看你旁邊有"},{"start":233.686,"end":260.262,"text":"當然我也會做這是政治上的這個批判因為我認為說如果經過了三年四年五年六年那我們的這個各個的行政機關都已經有被滲透的跡象的話那我們除了法律上面的修法可能要曠日廢時之外有沒有可能在行政命令上面去思考一下去尋找一下有沒有已經可以的法源你們這邊就有啦你們有法源依據所以你們可以讓進來廠商的必須要接受"},{"start":260.862,"end":263.643,"text":"對,這部分剛剛也在討論當中有去這樣的建議就是說只要立法院關切這個問題的話還是要有一個法制或是規範"},{"start":278.01,"end":305.997,"text":"那讓其他的行政部門可以能夠到立法院進行相關的不是只有立法院我們現在講的是所有的院會一般民眾也都會跟這個政府的採購等等都會有關係那我說能不能提出一個院版那我當然知道說剛才局長是尊重立法院說這個可能會影響到立法院的這些人士那這樣不是不是針對立法院而是一個普遍性的原則也包含立法院這個普遍性的原則也包含立法院不是針對立法院包含立法院"},{"start":306.497,"end":323.15,"text":"因為我們看到其實很多學術單位也會有啊接觸到基民資訊的也會有但假如是行政院相關的行政規範的話他沒有辦法延伸到沒有沒有我現在講說院版的修法的修法的提出院版的修法行政秘密可能沒有辦法但是院版的修法"},{"start":324.251,"end":346.313,"text":"這個提出來我們立法院就可以來去審議我們立法院參與的話就沒有侵害到立法院的問題就是我們要參與審議因為這部分管局有些作業的機制我們再跟院方來討論看怎麼樣把現在的經驗做一些經驗的分享因為這個東西會層出不窮那我們都可能會遇到周遭我們遇到的人那麼多有有有 很多委員都在提醒這一點好不好 儘快一下 好 謝謝謝謝 兩位請回"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:25:55.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:25:56.077000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們請局長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T11:25:56.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:25:56.097000+08:00","text":"局長請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:25:56.097000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:26:01.038500+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，陳委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:26:01.038500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:26:05.980000+08:00","text":"局長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:26:05.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:26:41.294000+08:00","text":"明天我們針對國防的特別條例有朝野協商，朝野協商中當然也有跟情偵相關的部分，因為這個部分在這次的國防特別條例裡都有，這也跟國安局的業務有相關，我在這邊很誠摯地希望所有在野黨的委員們能夠一同來參與這樣的討論，就算這一次的協商沒有共識，下一次我們可以慢慢地一起摸索出對國家有幫助的道路，所以我在這邊還是誠摯地呼籲，特別是我們年輕的在野黨委員們，我相信他們也很願意跟我們來做討論，很誠摯地希望明天有這個機會。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:26:42.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:26:55.084000+08:00","text":"再來，想要請教一下局長有關於鄭習會的部分，在鄭習會的前夕，中共突然有個突破，突然劃設無限高的禁飛區40天，您有沒有得到相關的資訊？","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:26:55.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:26:56.365000+08:00","text":"你覺得這是持續性作戰的戰備態勢嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:26:58.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:27:06.050000+08:00","text":"他這次劃設的叫空域保留區，大概是在江浙外海的空域，時間是3月28日到5月6日。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:27:07.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:27:22.718000+08:00","text":"我們注意到劃設有5個區塊，範圍蠻大的，時間也蠻長的，判斷在軍事上可能有點用來反制外國的軍機在該空域的活動狀況，當然外國軍機有能力在當地活動的主要還是以美國為主。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:27:23.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:27:38.764000+08:00","text":"另外，在政治上，因為時間剛好截止到川習會的前一個禮拜，所以也有可能在這段時間來測試及試探美國在相關空域活動的狀況，也做一些政治上的試水溫及試探。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:27:39.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:27:40.884000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝局長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:27:41.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:28:01.432000+08:00","text":"第二個問題就是剛才我們不斷在討論的，關於共諜案，有些可能是國會助理，有些可能是在行政機關，甚至是最高機關，都有，我們一直想問的是有沒有機會讓助理能夠接受這個安全查核，但是需要有法源……對。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:28:02.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:28:19.787000+08:00","text":"這個法源的部分，我們其實有提出國家機密保護法第十四條的修正草案，不過我還是要強調，我們還是希望有行政院院版，由行政院提出來跨部會的，算是一個條例，因為我們自己思考的方式可能沒有那麼完整。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:28:20.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:28:52.263000+08:00","text":"其實我們有邀請立法院法制局來做相關討論，在裡面，它不是只有政府人員，已經擴大到約聘人員，到國防的廠商、廠商的承包人員，到任何涉密人員、一般民眾，它不是要傷害人民的權利，而是如果想要接觸這些機密，就先要得到這些核可，所以它是權利，而不是義務，而不是傷害到人民的權利，這個有點不太一樣的。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:28:52.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:29:05.752000+08:00","text":"這也就是為什麼美國把拿到安全核可視為是一種榮譽，就代表你的忠誠有被核可了，你的財務紀錄、你的犯罪紀錄、你個人的種種紀錄都是經過核可的。","quality":0.79},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:29:07.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:29:17.900000+08:00","text":"我之前有問，國安局內如果有設施維護的話，這些進入營區的廠商人員是不是要經過安全查核？要。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:29:18.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:29:19.960000+08:00","text":"你們的回復說明是要、是可以的。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:29:20.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:29:50.008000+08:00","text":"這些人雖不是公務員的身分，但他可以接受查核，所以我認為最快的方法是思考到底有沒有哪些行政命令可以讓他們能夠接受這樣的查核，包含國會有一些自願想要接受安全查核的人，因為他可能會接觸到一些機密，這才可以避免每次只要一有相關的共諜案件，我們朝野就是互相指責，說你看你旁邊有，當然我也會做，這是政治上的批判。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:29:50.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:30:08.899000+08:00","text":"我認為如果經過了3年、4年、5年、6年，各個行政機關都已經有被滲透的跡象的話，我們除了法律上面的修法（這可能要曠日廢時）之外，有沒有可能在行政命令上面去思考一下、去尋找一下有沒有已經可以的法源？","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:30:09.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:30:14.862000+08:00","text":"你們就有了，你們有法源依據，所以你們可以讓進來的廠商必須要接受安全核可，對不對？對。","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:30:14.862000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:30:15.862000+08:00","text":"所以表示有一定的行政命令，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:30:15.862000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:30:16.862000+08:00","text":"對，我們內部有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:30:16.862000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:30:17.862000+08:00","text":"那有沒有辦法來擴大到只要願意的？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:30:14.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:30:36.211000+08:00","text":"這個部分剛剛也在討論當中有去這樣建議，就是假如立法院關切這個問題的話，還是要有一個法制或是規範，讓其他的行政部門能夠到立法院來進行相關的……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:30:36.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:30:45.513000+08:00","text":"不是只有立法院，我們現在講的是所有的，因為一般民眾也都會跟政府採購等等有關係，我是說能不能提出一個院版？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:30:46.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:30:50.755000+08:00","text":"我當然知道，剛才局長是尊重立法院，說這個可能會影響到立法院的這些人士等等。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:30:51.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:04.420000+08:00","text":"但是這個不是針對立法院，而是一個普遍性的原則，這個普遍性的原則也包含立法院，不是針對立法院，包含立法院，因為我們看到，其實很多學術單位也會有，接觸到機敏資訊的也會有。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:04.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:09.524000+08:00","text":"是，但假如是行政院相關的行政規範的話，它沒有辦法延伸到立法院，所以這一部分……","quality":0.676},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:10.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:12.427000+08:00","text":"沒有，我現在講院版的修法……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:12.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:13.648000+08:00","text":"修法的，可以。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:13.648000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:14.648000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:13.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:24.918000+08:00","text":"提出一個院版的修法，行政命令可能沒有辦法，但是院版的修法提出來，立法院就可以來審議，立法院參與的話，就沒有侵害到立法院的問題，就是我們要參與審議。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:24.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:31.124000+08:00","text":"好，因為這部分國安局有些作業的機制，我們再跟院方來討論，看怎麼樣把這樣的經驗……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:31.124000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:32.124000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:32.124000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:33.124000+08:00","text":"怎麼樣提出一個好的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:31.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:31.565000+08:00","text":"做經驗的分享。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:31.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:36.690000+08:00","text":"儘快，因為這個會層出不窮，我們都可能會遇到，周遭我們遇到的人那麼多。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:37.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:38.712000+08:00","text":"有、有、有，很多委員都在提醒這一點。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:38.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:39.432000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:39.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:39.853000+08:00","text":"儘快一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:39.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:40.193000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:40.193000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:41.193000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:40.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:40.293000+08:00","text":"謝謝，兩位請回。謝謝。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席（陳委員冠廷）","start":"2026-04-08T11:31:40.793000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:31:42.507286+08:00","text":"請牛煦庭委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}