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先請那個國防部政治作戰局使局長請局長"},{"start":14.841,"end":33.504,"text":"局長午安,今天針對國軍官兵的急難貸款跟你做一下討論,為什麼從這樣子的話題來切入呢?因為大家都講這段時間發生的部分的所謂的國安破口,其實是來自於部分的國軍官兵可能有經濟上的困難跟需求"},{"start":34.285,"end":51.331,"text":"那被這個老共逮到了空子他就用這個示意小惠用利用的這個方式然後要交換出賣國家機密嘛這因為這個很小條的東西然後造成情報的流失跟機密的外洩這我想對於我們國家安全來講當然是得不償失嘛那我想這除了"},{"start":53.132,"end":75.904,"text":"這個該懲治的要懲治該防堵的要防堵之外我們也要思考一下怎麼樣從源頭解決這個問題所以今天從這個角度來切入這時候國安局的報告裡面有講就是說用網路平台為媒介利誘尋求借貸的現退役軍人以稅刑交付機敏資訊換取資金以及拍攝效忠影片錄音檔事業書等等任務就有58人現退役軍人數32人佔比55%所以我想這是一個問題"},{"start":79.346,"end":106.488,"text":"那當然這個政戰局也提出了一些方案從今年的1月1號開始這個開辦國軍官兵的集單貸款也就是說我因應這個事國軍確實會有一些人經濟上的困難或短期的需求比照公教的方式做了一些這個制度上的設計去避免說因為小的經濟困難然後變找地下錢莊然後越滾越大然後被迫走投無路去處理這個事情所以現在是不管志願役、義務役都可以身帶然後10萬元以下免保人等等"},{"start":107.429,"end":130.274,"text":"那如果沒有辦法服役者,當然你要離英錢繳清嘛,這些狀況大概是這樣但我今天要提一個事情,就是國防部的版本裡面這個國軍官兵的急難貸款裡面的配套,裡面有一個剩餘役期啊如果沒有到六個月,他沒有辦法就使用這樣子的一個政策的優惠喔這個有沒有違德不足之處啊,這個局長要不要回答一下"},{"start":131.745,"end":146.881,"text":"謝委員有關於現在吉蘭貸款的部分主要我們還是得考慮到我們現在跟銀行的一個合作的機制那當然我們還是要考慮他還款的能力這是第一個"},{"start":147.341,"end":173.913,"text":"第二個我們針對國軍官兵他的財務失衡的一個狀況所以我們不僅僅是針對他財務可能有問題的一個情形我們另外也針對他財務失衡的狀況我們各級部隊都會有所掌握掌握之後我們了解他的一個原因除了跟他本人了解之外我們也透過家訪的方式了解他財務失衡的一個狀況"},{"start":175.453,"end":190.431,"text":"這些都是你現在在做的事嘛 是我今天就談為什麼我特別去提疫情不足六個月這件事情我為什麼會講說它叫違德不足原因是這樣嘛我想當初提這個東西除了照顧國軍之外也要防堵破口嘛但現在如果是剩餘疫情不足六個月的人不能身帶的話"},{"start":191.252,"end":212.199,"text":"我覺得它會形成所謂的雙重風險第一重我六個月之後我就要退役了我沒有要在國軍裡面發展等等我就沒有你講比較難聽一點可能就沒有包袱了嘛對不對我去做一些奇奇怪怪的事情大概也比較不會有顧忌對不對因為我沒有要繼續走這條路要繼續發展加上我如果真的遇到經濟困難我剛好又被這個六個月的條款排除在外經濟困難又沒有辦法解決"},{"start":213.86,"end":235.928,"text":"我覺得就會形成所謂的雙重風險就讓這一群人反而變得更容易被滲透的對象當然我們都希望不要發生這個事但它難免有可能有這樣的一個狀況那我有看到嘛因為我們的貸款的這個款源我們也有提撥相關的基金嘛讓銀行有更大的空間去擔保等等另外就我們國軍應該退退之後六個月退退理論上應該會有退五金嘛"},{"start":236.548,"end":261.729,"text":"會有一些相關的這樣的東西這能不能做一個綜合的考量然後把這個規範稍微放寬不要變成為德不足我請教一下政戰局的意見是 謝謝委員的指教我想第一步我們先做到可以先解決官兵急難能夠有可以跟銀行借一筆錢出來先解決眼前的問題那我想委員剛剛提到的這第二步也許我們在第一步檢討完了之後我們可以做進一步的一個討論"},{"start":262.87,"end":291.725,"text":"好 這有用開放的心態來看這件事情所以其實當然可以接受那就希望在一段時間你當然可以設定一段時間但我也要提醒我剛剛特別提這一段就是因為有雙重風險的問題如果在這一段你第一階段的試行的時候請你特別針對這個六個月以前的你可能要花更多的心力去了解那如果說制度修正比較有效率那就趕快來做制度的修正這本席給偵探局的這樣一個建議希望大家可以把這個破口把它堵起來好 謝謝偵探局長請回謝謝委員長那請國安局蔡局長"},{"start":301.525,"end":320.351,"text":"劉委員長局長你好今天討論一下維安相關的現在大家都針對比如說政府總統或者委員院長等等一些維安尤其是他們是政治人物難免出席群眾場合等等現在大家擔心比如說無人機它會不會是一個新的維安上的威脅或者是一個破口"},{"start":320.851,"end":349.647,"text":"那過去的時候我們要針對這種無人機的騷擾也好徵收也好有不同的反制手段比如說軟殺也就是用干擾的方式我讓你飛不起來我讓你落地那硬殺我當然就直接擊墜嘛大概是這樣子的兩個邏輯那如果是考量維安大部分應該不會在大庭廣眾面前把無人機擊落恐怕實務效果比較難處理所以大部分從維安的角度出發大家都採取訊號干擾的這樣的一個方式來處理沒有錯吧對目前是這樣目前是這樣好那現在"},{"start":350.487,"end":369.88,"text":"因為無人機的這個技術一直在更新啦那現在本期有了解到比如說在烏克蘭的戰場上出現的光纖無人機就看起來是無線它其實是有線的因為以前是無線訊號我只要打斷了無線訊號無人機它當然就必須要降落嘛或者是掉下來等等那現在的光纖無人機而且實體的有線的而且距離好像還蠻長的這個長達"},{"start":372.962,"end":395.797,"text":"數十公里 當然是媒體報導 姑且引用之那它優勢是什麼 它抗電子干擾我的軟砂效果可能會失效 然後它還不以前訊號不好 畫面傳不回來 塗床等等會有問題 現在沒有嘛 那光纖好像也不是特別特別難的技術啦也就是說這光纖無人機啊 已經出現 甚至我們自己國內這因應國防等等 也都有開始進行一些採購那現在"},{"start":398.824,"end":420.524,"text":"這樣的狀況在上一次國安局我們在內政委會以前有開過會在討論治安狀況跟強化維安的時候有講就我們針對無人機的徵收干擾等等我們還是用採購無人機干擾槍的方式來做處理那麼因應不依靠這種遙控不依靠這種訊號的所謂的光纖無人機現在國安局有沒有針對這樣的可能性進行一些研討或者是提出新的反制措施"},{"start":421.925,"end":435.884,"text":"謝謝劉委員的提醒跟關注這個涉及到元首為安的議題因為中共也有可能在對台的一個可能軍事的一個行動當中也會不排除有這種所謂的斬首的行動那當然這要"},{"start":436.405,"end":458.39,"text":"分不同的一個場景在平時就像我們在內政委員會跟委員報告說明的平時可能重視的是對於商規無人機這種訊號的干擾或迫降讓他回到原地那但是到了比較國家比較緊急的時候那可能我們要啟動的是針對軍規的無人機他可能可能發動了相關的攻擊那所以這部分可能出我們的"},{"start":459.25,"end":481.512,"text":"國安局的特勤中心以外我們要結合到國防部這邊整體的防空的位數那透過郭城的截擊來避免這些無人機迫近到元首的所在地活動的地點而造成對元首有危害所以這部分我們是有一些配置的當然你講的軍規當然是在有衝突的情況下戰爭的時候那當然就是通通擊落嘛這沒有什麼好講那我的意思是說這些"},{"start":482.473,"end":508.733,"text":"光纖無人機它有沒有可能它是軟性的方式我可能只是來蒐集情報啊偷拍啊有的沒的被這樣子應用的時候它就比較尷尬因為你講比如說在軍事要塞關鍵基礎設施那就很好處理嘛就擊落也沒有關係但是比如說維安人很多的時候它就有一些狀況那我希望我今天只是提醒啦就是國防部國安局也好國防部也好針對這種光纖無人機它如果被用在這種軟性的群眾場合的時候可能要提早做一下部署"},{"start":509.634,"end":530.165,"text":"怎麼針對這種光纖無人機也要進行反制的措施去確保大家的安全 可以嗎可以 這部分有在評估一些新的因應的方式那我們跟國防部 縣子部這邊大概都有做一些專欄的討論好 那如果討論有一些明確的進展的時候也要盡快的跟國會來報告讓我們去了解這些進展 可以嗎好 謝謝劉偉好 謝謝 辛苦了"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:32:02.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:32:05.785000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，先請國防部政治作戰局史局長。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T11:32:05.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:32:05.805000+08:00","text":"請局長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:32:15.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:32:16.061000+08:00","text":"局長，午安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:32:17.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:32:25.053000+08:00","text":"今天針對國軍官兵的急難貸款跟你做一下討論，為什麼從這樣的一個話題來切入呢？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:32:25.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:32:42.668000+08:00","text":"因為大家都講，這段時間發生的部分所謂國安破口其實是來自於部分的國軍官兵可能有經濟上的困難和需求，被老共逮到了空子，他就施以小惠，用利誘的方式交換出賣國家機密。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:32:43.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:32:50.810000+08:00","text":"就因為這個很小條的東西，造成情報流失，以及機密外洩，所以對於國家安全來講當然就得不償失。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:32:51.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:33:01.476000+08:00","text":"我想除了該懲治的要懲治、該防堵的要防堵之外，我們也要思考一下怎麼樣從源頭解決這個問題，所以今天從這樣的角度來切入。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:33:02.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:33:16.904000+08:00","text":"國安局的報告裡面有講，用網路平臺為媒介，利誘尋求借貸的現、退役軍人，以遂行交付機敏資訊換取資金，以及拍攝效忠影片、錄音檔、誓約書等等任務，去年迄今年3月，起訴人數就有58人，其中現、退役軍人有32人，占比55%，所以我想這是一個問題。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:33:20.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:33:42.044000+08:00","text":"當然，政戰局也提出了一些方案，從今年1月1日開辦國軍官兵的急難貸款，也就是為因應這個事（國軍確實會有一些人有經濟上的困難或短期的需求），比照公教的方式，做了一些制度上的設計，去避免因為小的經濟困難，去找地下錢莊，越滾越大，被迫走投無路，要去處理這個事情。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:33:43.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:33:53.950000+08:00","text":"現在是不管志願役、義務役都可以申貸，10萬元以下免保人等等，如果沒有辦法服役者，當然要在離營前繳清，狀況大概是這樣。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:33:53.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:34:11.254000+08:00","text":"但我今天要提一個事情，就是國防部的版本裡面，國軍官兵急難貸款的配套有剩餘役期如果沒有到6個月，就沒有辦法使用這樣的政策優惠，這個有沒有為德不卒之處，局長要不要回答一下？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"史局長順文","start":"2026-04-08T11:34:12.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:34:13.966000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"史局長順文","start":"2026-04-08T11:34:13.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:34:27.881000+08:00","text":"有關於現在急難貸款的部分，主要我們還是得考慮到我們現在跟銀行的合作機制，當然我們還是要考慮他還款的能力，這是第一個。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"史局長順文","start":"2026-04-08T11:34:28.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:34:44.868000+08:00","text":"第二個，我們也針對國軍官兵財務失衡的狀況，所以我們不僅僅針對他財務可能有問題的情形，另外也針對他財務失衡的狀況，我們各級部隊都會有所掌握……","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:34:44.868000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:34:45.868000+08:00","text":"提前掌握。","quality":0},{"speaker":"史局長順文","start":"2026-04-08T11:34:45.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:34:54.913000+08:00","text":"掌握之後，我們了解他的原因，除了跟他本人了解之外，我們也透過家訪的方式，了解他財務失衡的狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:34:56.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:34:57.575000+08:00","text":"這些都是你現在在做的事……是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:34:57.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:35:02.340000+08:00","text":"我今天就談為什麼我特別去提剩餘役期不足6個月這件事情，我為什麼會講它叫為德不卒？","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:35:03.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:35:14.553000+08:00","text":"原因是這樣，我想當初提這個東西除了要照顧國軍之外，也要防堵破口，但現在如果是剩餘役期不足6個月的人不能申貸的話，我覺得它會形成所謂的雙重風險。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:35:14.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:35:22.196000+08:00","text":"第一重，他6個月之後就要退役了，他沒有要在國軍裡面發展等等，講比較難聽一點，他可能就沒有包袱了，對不對？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:35:22.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:35:25.477000+08:00","text":"他去做一些奇奇怪怪的事情大概也比較不會有顧忌，對不對？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:35:25.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:35:43.763000+08:00","text":"因為他沒有要繼續走這條路、繼續發展，加上他如果真的遇到經濟困難，剛好又被這個6個月條款排除在外，經濟困難又沒有辦法解決，我覺得就會形成所謂的雙重風險，就讓這一群人反而變成更容易被滲透的對象，當然我們都希望不要發生這個事，但難免有可能有這樣的狀況。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:35:43.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:35:50.906000+08:00","text":"我有看到這個貸款的款源，我們也有由相關基金提撥，讓銀行有更大的空間獲得擔保等等。","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:35:51.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:36:03.593000+08:00","text":"另外，我們國軍6個月退之後，理論上，應該會有退伍金，會有一些相關的這些東西，能不能做綜合考量，把這個規範稍微放寬，不要變成為德不卒？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:36:03.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:36:05.755000+08:00","text":"我請教一下政戰局的意見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"史局長順文","start":"2026-04-08T11:36:05.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:36:06.416000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"史局長順文","start":"2026-04-08T11:36:06.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:36:16.664000+08:00","text":"我想第一步我們先做到可以解決官兵急難，能夠跟銀行借一筆錢出來先解決眼前的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"史局長順文","start":"2026-04-08T11:36:17.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:36:22.729000+08:00","text":"至於委員剛剛提到的第二步，也許我們在第一步檢討完了之後，可以做進一步的討論。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:36:23.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:36:27.972000+08:00","text":"好，有用開放的心態來看這件事情，本席當然可以接受……是。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:36:28.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:36:47.642000+08:00","text":"就希望在一段時間之後能處理，你當然可以設定一段時間，但我也要提醒，我剛剛特別提這一段就是因為有雙重風險的問題，所以你在第一階段試行的時候，請特別針對這個6個月以前的，可能要花更多心力去了解，如果制度修正比較有效率，就趕快來做制度修正，這是本席給政戰局的一個建議……是。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:36:47.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:36:49.423000+08:00","text":"希望大家可以趕快把這個破口堵起來。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:36:49.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:36:50.484000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝政戰局長，請回。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"史局長順文","start":"2026-04-08T11:36:50.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:36:51.564000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指導。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:36:52.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:36:52.725000+08:00","text":"請國安局蔡局長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:37:02.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:37:03.905000+08:00","text":"牛委員早。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:37:03.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:37:04.226000+08:00","text":"局長你好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:37:04.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:37:21.331000+08:00","text":"今天討論一下維安相關的議題，現在大家針對正副總統或是五院院長等等的一些維安，尤其是他們是政治人物，難免出席群眾場合等等，現在大家擔心無人機會不會是一個新的維安上的威脅或者是破口。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:37:22.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:37:35.959000+08:00","text":"過去你們針對這種無人機的騷擾也好、偵蒐也好，有不同的反制手段，比如說軟殺，也就是用干擾的方式讓它飛不起來、讓它落地；硬殺當然就是直接擊墜，大概是這樣子的兩個邏輯。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:37:36.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:37:48.165000+08:00","text":"如果是考量維安，大部分應該不會在大庭廣眾面前把無人機擊落，恐怕實務比較難處理，所以從維安的角度出發，大部分都採取訊號干擾這樣的方式來處理，沒有錯吧？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:37:48.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:37:49.406000+08:00","text":"對，目前是這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:37:51.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:37:59.573000+08:00","text":"因為無人機的技術一直在更新，現在據本席了解，比如在烏克蘭的戰場上出現光纖無人機，就是看起來是無線，但它其實是有線的。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:38:00.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:38:06.057000+08:00","text":"以前是無線訊號，只要打斷了無線訊號，無人機當然就必須要降落或者是掉下來等等。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:38:06.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:38:36.757000+08:00","text":"現在光纖無人機是實體的、有線的，而且距離好像還蠻長的，長達數十公里，當然這是媒體報導的，我們姑且引用之，它的優勢是抗電子干擾，軟殺效果可能會失效，然後它還不會受限，以前的訊號不好、畫面傳不回來、圖傳等等會有問題，現在沒有，而且光纖好像也不是特別難的技術，也就是說，光纖無人機已經出現，甚至我們自己國內的國防因應等等也都有開始進行一些採購。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:38:36.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:39:01.504000+08:00","text":"現在這樣的狀況，上一次我們在內政委員會有開過會，與國安局討論治安狀況跟強化維安的時候有講，就是針對無人機的偵蒐、干擾等等，我們還是用採購無人機干擾槍的方式來做處理，但是因應這種不依靠遙控、不依靠訊號的所謂的光纖無人機，現在國安局有沒有針對這樣的可能性進行一些研討，或者是提出新的反制措施？","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:39:02.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:39:16.324000+08:00","text":"感謝牛委員的提醒跟關注這個涉及到元首維安的議題，因為中共在對臺可能的軍事行動當中，也不排除有這種所謂的斬首行動。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:39:16.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:39:55.625000+08:00","text":"當然，這要分不同的場景，就像我們在內政委員會跟委員報告、說明的，平時可能重視的是對於商規無人機這種訊號的干擾或迫降，讓它回到原地；但是到了國家比較緊急的時候，可能我們要啟動的是針對軍規的無人機可能發動相關的攻擊，所以這一部分除了我們國安局的特勤中心以外，我們要結合到國防部這邊整體防空的衛戍，透過多層的截擊，來避免這些無人機迫近到元首的所在地、活動的地點，而造成對元首的危害，所以這部分我們是有一些配置的。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:39:56.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:40:05.815000+08:00","text":"你講的軍規是在有衝突的情況之下，當然就是通通擊落，這沒有什麼好講的，但我的意思是說，這些光纖無人機有沒有可能是用軟性的方式？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:40:06.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:40:19.806000+08:00","text":"它可能只是來蒐集情報、偷拍等等，當它被這樣子應用的時候，就比較尷尬，比如說是軍事要塞、關鍵基礎設施，那就很好處理，擊落也沒有關係；但是比如說是維安時，在人很多的時候，它就有一些狀況。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:40:19.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:40:35.277000+08:00","text":"我現在只是提醒國防部、國安局，針對這種光纖無人機如果被用在軟性的群眾場合的時候，可能要提早做一下部署，針對這種光纖無人機也要進行反制的措施，去確保大家的安全，可以嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:40:35.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:40:43.841000+08:00","text":"可以，這部分有在評估一些新的因應方式，我們跟國防部憲指部這邊大概都有做一些專案的討論，謝謝委員提醒。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:40:44.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:40:50.424000+08:00","text":"如果討論有一些明確進展的時候，也要儘快的跟國會報告，讓我們去了解這些進展，可以嗎？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-04-08T11:40:50.424000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:40:51.424000+08:00","text":"應該的，謝謝牛委員。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-04-08T11:40:50.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:40:51.145000+08:00","text":"謝謝，辛苦了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T11:40:51.645000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:40:53.645000+08:00","text":"謝謝牛煦庭委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T11:40:53.945000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:41:14.230714+08:00","text":"因為刑事案件跟財務紀錄的瑕疵也可能會讓受查核者失去安全核可的資格，在美國是這樣，所以如果院版的安全查核可以提出來，也包含這個部分的話，我覺得會更加完整。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T11:41:14.530714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:41:17.102143+08:00","text":"接下來請洪孟楷委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}