{"error":false,"id":["168274"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168274,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168274","日期":"2026-04-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-08T11:55:53+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-08T12:07:56+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:03","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/70d8fc05dcd8abb08f09e26dd092f86801ae777e4c72867e3efd812baa63ee5868389693bd1b95a25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"11:55:53 - 12:07:56","會議時間":"2026-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部就「穩定供給與減塑並進：因應國際原物料波動之原物料穩定供應及我國減塑治理進程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n一、審查「廢棄物清理法條文修正草案」9案：\n（一）委員馬文君等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員顏寬恒等19人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林淑芬等22人擬具「廢棄物清理法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員張宏陸等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員邱議瑩等21人擬具「廢棄物清理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員許智傑等29人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員劉建國等19人擬具「廢棄物清理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查「資源回收再利用法修正草案」2案：\n（一）委員許智傑等28人擬具「資源回收再利用法修正草案」案。\n（二）委員盧縣一等16人擬具「資源回收再利用法修正草案」案。\n【專題報告及法律案綜合詢答，法律案僅詢答】\n【4月8日及9日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":6.814718750000001,"end":10.020968750000002,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":10.172843750000002,"end":11.10096875,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":11.25284375,"end":13.41284375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":13.41284375,"end":14.84721875,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":15.47159375,"end":16.36596875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":17.36159375,"end":25.52909375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":25.782218750000002,"end":41.89784375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":42.11721875,"end":51.02721875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":51.415343750000005,"end":52.664093750000006,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":52.900343750000005,"end":61.455968750000004,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":62.55284375,"end":62.56971875000001,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":62.56971875000001,"end":76.40721875,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":76.40721875,"end":76.57596875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":76.62659375,"end":88.64159375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":82.93784375,"end":83.03909375,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":88.84409375,"end":92.05034375000001,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":92.33721875,"end":107.76096875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":108.40221875,"end":114.30846875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":114.74721875,"end":122.67846875000001,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":122.84721875000001,"end":134.87909375,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":134.91284375,"end":138.50721875000002,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":138.64221875,"end":141.67971875,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":141.94971875000002,"end":142.13534375,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":142.55721875,"end":145.24034375000002,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":145.25721875000002,"end":151.82159375,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":151.93971875,"end":159.82034375,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":160.39409375,"end":166.30034375000002,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":166.78971875000002,"end":171.63284375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":172.42596875,"end":173.99534375000002,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":174.24846875,"end":174.77159375000002,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":175.26096875000002,"end":187.15784375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":187.15784375,"end":187.19159375,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":187.20846875,"end":205.18034375000002,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":206.14221875,"end":206.56409375,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":206.91846875000002,"end":211.44096875000002,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":212.43659375000001,"end":215.08596875,"speaker_score":0.715},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":216.30096875,"end":223.75971875000002,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":224.08034375000003,"end":225.39659375000002,"speaker_score":0.969},{"s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謝謝主席 那請我們彭部長 有請彭部長我們循環署賴署長循環署賴署長土耳其人好"},{"start":17.421,"end":41.324,"text":"好 部長那今天先跟您討論一下我們一般廢棄物回收清除處理辦法我們廢清法裡面回收業者針對分類行為及中間處理行為這一方面的界定那我們針對像我們鋁罐我們壓扁鋁罐這也是屬於我們的物理行為那我們壓扁鋁罐最主要目的就是"},{"start":42.285,"end":60.998,"text":"我們把它壓緊之後打包成一個立方體也讓我們回收業者方便運輸方便儲存那可是針對同樣的情況那為什麼像我們採檢鋼筋那這部分回收業者他可以處理嗎"},{"start":64.289,"end":84.466,"text":"謝偉 這個目前的法規是不行但是目前我們也了解到這個狀況有在了解說看怎麼樣來修改法規然後讓這些業者可以多做這些工作對 因為現在就面臨這個問題我相信署長針對這一部分很多業者也反映了鋼筋它拆解下來這麼長"},{"start":86.22,"end":105.917,"text":"他要怎麼載他要怎麼去運送那最後你還是要去採檢那回收業者採檢完之後他再去處理這樣子他也好運輸而且你重點他如果沒有採檢下來他到那個爐也是沒有辦法去熔煉對不對那針對這部分而且"},{"start":108.499,"end":122.266,"text":"奇怪的是好像我們中央的認定標準也不一有些縣市允許有些縣市不允許會開發所以我覺得這中央這個標準根本沒有說明清楚是不是這樣"},{"start":124.307,"end":144.999,"text":"因為過去像這些採檢室比較接種人力現在大部分都是用接種機器這個機器的形態就跟過去不同所以跟現在法規有些比較寫得不清楚的地方我們在前陣子就了解到這個情形有跟業者來座談也到現場去把它的每一種樣態弄清楚"},{"start":145.399,"end":171.353,"text":"那我們現在有兩個方案就是去修公告那這個修正的方式呢最近已經邀請要邀請環保局還有業者來討論要怎麼樣來修改那進行意見交換那等要收集他的意見我們就可以進行一個法規的調整對啊你看他現在工人在現場用洋語訣去把它截短這樣又可以可是反而用油壓機去把它剪短又說不行"},{"start":172.455,"end":186.614,"text":"同樣是物理的行為這個是不是難怪一般業者無所適從而且真的據我們了解他們現在都搞不清楚有些限制法有些限制不處理所以你這部分是要修改法規嗎還是怎麼樣"},{"start":187.855,"end":214.813,"text":"對這個地方因為執行的是地方環保機關那我們現在等於是了解到這樣的狀況那也會跟這個地方環保機關來溝通然後我們覺得溝通完了之後大概四月中的左右會溝通然後完了之後接下來就可能可以啟動法規修改的程序那這大概要多久如果是這個五月開始來進行法規那通常法規的程序大概要三個月就是要預告然後要延商"},{"start":216.38,"end":244.567,"text":"好那這個我希望是要盡快啦因為這已經造成我們基層業者無所適從啊對啊這個中央這個標準認定就不一而且確實如果照你們中央這樣根本就是讓他們完全沒有辦法達到運送儲存的問題而且最後他到到爐要去熔煉的時候他還是要去採檢啊所以與其這樣為什麼不一樣物理的行為前面採檢完"},{"start":246.387,"end":268.55,"text":"讓它好運輸到爐去溶解的時候馬上就可以去做不然這運送的過程中你要多長的車去載而且在路上造成更多我們用路人的安全的問題好這部分我相信署長應該也很了解啦可是因為業者一直認為說這個事情也反映那麼久沒有看到一個具體的作為"},{"start":270.191,"end":281.374,"text":"那這部分也希望部長居然已經這個問題已經發生那大家已經知道這問題確實去需要去修正希望能夠盡快來辦理沒問題謝謝委員好那我們再討論一下現在因為中東戰爭的問題也更加凸顯"},{"start":290.357,"end":313.409,"text":"我們關鍵原物料跟關鍵戰略金屬那其實在這部分本席在年前的時候在立法院有成立我們關鍵原物料與循環經濟促進聯盟那在上週我們未還委員會也特別到屏東去考察走訪這業者目的也是希望針對現在世界各國"},{"start":314.509,"end":326.323,"text":"對於我們關鍵原物料缺乏的問題也希望訂定相關的政策那之前我有詢問過部長你說有做初步的盤點那目前這部分都盤點好了嗎目前有兩個部分"},{"start":329.366,"end":351.193,"text":"一個是稀土的提煉是由經濟部在負責我們是負責內循環的一個部分所以這個部分我們大概有找了十幾家業者也了解他們的動態比較重要的是說未來的需求在哪裡例如說誰需要這個關鍵的貴氣金屬這個部分我們希望能夠了解的更多所以這個部分還正在進行當中"},{"start":352.293,"end":374.305,"text":"好那針對這部分喔其實我們盤點出來我相信部長應該也了解啦我們希望因為其實他這個金屬我們成立關鍵原物料四大國家隊那這個四個金屬我們單一金屬能源金屬基礎金屬還包含這個系統可是他每個金屬裡面即使又包含了"},{"start":374.865,"end":399.055,"text":"很多的金屬像我們能源金屬裡面有鋰有鋪有鎳那其實範圍非常非常的廣那我們現在也希望部長針對盤點出來部分你不可能每樣去做是不是應該針對有些重要的部分去聚焦像有些我們回收之後我們根本沒有技術可以去做加工"},{"start":399.795,"end":421.634,"text":"那可是台灣有些是有技術可以做加工的但是因為他量太少所以成本太高所以這部分是不是部長有別的方法去怎麼樣的去處理讓我們台灣本身有技術可以做加工的部分怎麼樣子讓他去增加他的原料降低他的成本才有辦法去做"},{"start":422.954,"end":450.121,"text":"這個部分這四大金屬裡面有的台灣是很強但是有的是需要國際的技術合作甚至我們還要考慮到他會不會有一些污染的一個情況所以這個狀況不一樣那我們現在有一個做法是我們也跟我們友好的國家有在洽談這個相關合作的一個細節還有包含了整個量能因為其實我們如果押寶某一個金屬其實在全世界的這個兩個供應鏈電體系的話另外一邊就會故意把這個價錢"},{"start":451.101,"end":470.531,"text":"拉下來就會造成整個產業的崩盤所以我們也在密切注意等於是說一個產業鏈的這個形成跨國的合作這個是必要的不然的話這個產業在台灣都是非常辛苦的所以目前的我們的確內部的在盤點他的量能他的技術還有我們的需求甚至還有國際供應鏈的問題現在正在進行當中"},{"start":471.451,"end":491.901,"text":"對啊所以剛才講說我們現在已經初步盤點之後那現在我說因為中東戰爭的影響特別又凸顯了這一方面問題因為各國對於稀土貴稀金屬這些出口都有嚴格的限制也導致現在這些原物料的成本相對的提高但是也確實我們尤其我們本身"},{"start":494.722,"end":519.746,"text":"臺灣自己本身針對這部分的需求也是非常非常的大我相信像我們循環署也跟我們經濟部產發署應該都有開會討論這些循環經濟這些原物料部分應該都有去討論過那像部長剛剛講當然你說有些原物料可能有污染的問題所以藉由這些你盤點之後所以我們說應該去做一些篩檢篩檢出來之後哪些"},{"start":523.347,"end":538.561,"text":"是我們有技術可以加工而且非常重要是不是找一些國家來進口來進口之後我們原物料這些量大之後成本就自然降低所以應該針對這部分應該部長應該是不是"},{"start":541.563,"end":565.873,"text":"這部分應該要好好的來規劃一下我們現在正在進行當中不過因為如果進口國外的電子廢棄物的話或是相關廢棄物的話其實還是有環保法規的共識的一個問題這個需要再溝通我們也要評估會不會對台灣的環境我們的廢棄物處理事業廢棄物都有一點困難的情況下能不能容許的更多這個都需要整體評估所以這些事情我們都同步在進行當中"},{"start":566.513,"end":581.823,"text":"那你有沒有預估大概要多久的時間怎麼去研擬有哪些國家的是可以開放讓他再循環利用這些再生料進口到我們這邊來然後讓我們這些業者有技術然後又能夠進這些"},{"start":583.504,"end":607.598,"text":"原物料之後讓他成本來降低來增加我們國防戰略金屬謝偉 因為這個其實這些的貴心金屬的公司並不是很多就集中在某些然後他的這個也有一些商業機密的問題所以我們要統計這個資料的時候都非常的謹慎小心那我們當然是希望業者跟我們說的多一點點我們可以掌握多一點點但是有些業者他有他的考量"},{"start":608.118,"end":637.402,"text":"所以我們如何能夠在幫助這個產業能夠順利的發展還需要一點點時間因為目前這個整個產業的結構我們需要跟經濟部密切的合作才能夠在內循環或在稀土裡面因為有些東西是稀土可以處理有些東西是內循環可以處理這兩邊如何做好一個融合還要跨部會再開會那我們內部已經開過幾次的會議還要再往前推進所以這個未來我們會跟經濟部有一個平台都在討論這個事情那我們是希望說是不是"},{"start":637.922,"end":659.394,"text":"我們是一季一季來看這樣的一個推動的速度啦那業者的聲音我們也會定期的掌握但是恐怕沒有辦法那麼快因為這個東西也要看國際局勢的一個演變對啊所以我說本來這個AI產業對於我們這些貴稀金屬大家各國都已經非常重視剛好現在因為中東戰爭又更加的凸顯這一方面問題"},{"start":660.274,"end":674.27,"text":"所以我們本身台灣這個產業這些金屬對我們來講都是非常重要而且也可以說是世界各國國防戰略非常重要的一些關鍵原物料那所以也希望我們"},{"start":675.431,"end":699.892,"text":"環境部針對這一部分也要更加的來重視而且居然我們已經有初步盤點那現在也有很多業者提出來說我們是有這個技術的只是真的成本太高所以希望我們環境部能夠礙於我們業者所提出的還有針對我們國家這些戰略關鍵物料部分我們好好的不單來盤點一下"},{"start":701.789,"end":718.57,"text":"然後怎麼樣子來評估怎麼去到其他的友好國家來進這些原物料讓我們的成本降低然後我們有技術來去加工好 謝謝我們正在進行當中好 那這部分也請部長盡快來處理OK 好 謝謝沒問題 謝謝好 謝謝圖權及委員發言人"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:56:01.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:56:03.242000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T11:56:03.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:56:04.465000+08:00","text":"有請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:56:05.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:56:06.671000+08:00","text":"還有循環署賴署長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T11:56:06.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:56:08.655000+08:00","text":"請循環署賴署長。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T11:56:08.655000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:56:10.621000+08:00","text":"涂委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:56:10.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:56:24.114000+08:00","text":"部長，今天先跟你討論一般廢棄物回收清除處理辦法與廢清法裡面關於回收業者分類行為及中間處理行為這方面的界定。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:56:26.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:56:43.571000+08:00","text":"像壓扁鋁罐屬於物理行為，而壓扁鋁罐最主要的目的是把它壓扁之後打包成一個立方體，讓回收業者方便運輸、方便儲存。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:56:46.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:56:53.998000+08:00","text":"同樣的情況─像是裁剪鋼筋，回收業者可以處理嗎？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T11:56:53.998000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T11:56:57.289000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T11:56:57.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:57:09.119000+08:00","text":"照目前的法規是不行，但是我們了解到這個狀況，也已經在了解怎麼樣修改法規，讓這些業者可以多做這些工作。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:57:10.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:57:11.801000+08:00","text":"現在就面臨這個問題啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:57:11.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:57:13.723000+08:00","text":"我相信署長可以針對這部分說明。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:57:14.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:57:21.342000+08:00","text":"很多業者反映鋼筋裁剪下來這麼長，要怎麼載、怎麼運送？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:57:22.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:57:31.471000+08:00","text":"最後還是要裁剪，回收業者裁剪完之後再處理也好運輸。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:57:31.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:57:37.456000+08:00","text":"而且重點是如果沒有裁剪下來，送到爐子也沒有辦法熔煉，對不對？是。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:57:38.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:57:55.266000+08:00","text":"而且奇怪的是，中央認定標準好像不一，導致有些縣市允許，有些縣市則不允許、會開罰，我覺得中央對於這個標準根本沒有說明清楚，是不是這樣？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T11:57:58.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:58:07.553000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，過去裁剪比較借重人力，現在大部分都借重機器，而這種用機器的型態就跟過去不同，所以現在法規有些寫得比較不清楚的地方。","quality":0.707},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T11:58:08.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:58:17.979000+08:00","text":"我們在前一陣子了解到這個情形，就跟業者座談，也到現場把每一種樣態弄清楚。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T11:58:18.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:58:29.425000+08:00","text":"現在有兩個方案，就是修公告，至於修正的方式，最近已經要邀請環保局還有業者討論要怎麼修改、進行意見交換。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T11:58:29.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:58:32.627000+08:00","text":"等到蒐集完意見，我們就可以進行法規的調整。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:58:33.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:58:51.223000+08:00","text":"你看，工人在現場用氧乙炔把它截短，這樣可以；用油壓機剪短，你們反而說不行，同樣是物理行為，難怪一般業者無所適從。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:58:51.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:58:59.614000+08:00","text":"而且據我們了解，他們現在都搞不清楚，有些縣市罰，有些縣市不處理，所以這部分是要修改法規還是怎麼處理？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T11:59:00.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:59:09.161000+08:00","text":"這部分執行的是地方環保機關，但我們現在了解到這樣的狀況，也會跟地方環保機關溝通。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T11:59:10.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:59:16.365000+08:00","text":"我們覺得等溝通完……大概四月中會溝通，完成之後，接下來可能就可以啟動法規修改的程序。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:59:16.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:59:17.926000+08:00","text":"那大概要多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T11:59:19.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:59:27.793000+08:00","text":"如果是五月開始處理法規，通常法規程序大概要3個月，就是要預告、要研商。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:59:29.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:59:31.340000+08:00","text":"好，我希望儘快啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:59:31.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:59:36.342000+08:00","text":"因為已經造成基層業者無所適從啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:59:37.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T11:59:53.666000+08:00","text":"中央標準認定不一，照你們中央這樣，根本讓他們完全沒有辦法解決運送、儲存的問題，而且最後到爐子去熔煉的時候還是要裁剪啊！","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T11:59:54.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:00:07.576000+08:00","text":"一樣是物理行為，與其這樣，為什麼不前面就裁剪完，讓它好運輸，送到爐子馬上就可以熔解，不然在運送過程中，要用多長的車去載？","quality":0.698},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:00:07.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:00:13.001000+08:00","text":"而且在路上會造成更多用路人的安全問題。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:00:13.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:00:16.305000+08:00","text":"這部分相信署長應該也很了解啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:00:16.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:00:21.550000+08:00","text":"可是業者一直認為這件事情反映那麼久，都沒有看到具體作為。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:00:25.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:00:32.914000+08:00","text":"部長，既然這個問題已經發生、大家已經知道這個問題確實需要修正，希望儘快辦理。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:00:32.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:00:33.114000+08:00","text":"沒問題，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:00:33.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:00:47.079000+08:00","text":"我們再討論一下，現在因為中東戰爭的問題，更加凸顯需要關鍵原物料跟關鍵戰略金屬。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:00:48.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:01:12.475000+08:00","text":"針對這部分，其實本席年前在立法院成立了關鍵原物料與循環經濟促進聯盟，上週我們衛環委員會也特別到屏東考察、走訪業者，目的也是希望針對現在世界各國關鍵原物料缺乏的問題訂定相關政策。","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:01:13.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:01:18.562000+08:00","text":"我之前詢問過部長，你說有做初步盤點，那麼目前都盤點好了嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:01:18.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:01:27.348000+08:00","text":"目前有兩個部分，一是稀土的提煉，由經濟部負責，我們負責內循環。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:01:28.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:01:45.293000+08:00","text":"這部分我們找了十幾家業者，也了解他們的動態，比較重要的是未來的需求在哪裡，例如誰需要關鍵的貴稀金屬，由於我們希望能夠了解得更多，所以正在進行當中。好。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:01:46.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:02:03.183000+08:00","text":"其實針對這部分我們有盤點出來，我相信部長應該也了解，針對這些金屬，我國成立關鍵原物料四大國家隊，這四種金屬為單一金屬、能源金屬、基礎金屬，還包含稀土。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:02:04.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:02:21.390000+08:00","text":"每種金屬裡面其實又包含了很多金屬，像能源金屬裡面有鋰、鈷、鎳，範圍非常廣，盤點出來的部分不可能每樣都做嘛！","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:02:22.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:02:26.392000+08:00","text":"部長是不是應該針對重要的部分聚焦？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:02:27.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:02:40.822000+08:00","text":"像是有些金屬回收之後，我們根本沒有技術可以加工；又有些是臺灣有技術可以加工，但是因為量太少，成本太高。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:02:42.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:02:54.614000+08:00","text":"部長是不是有別的方法處理，對於臺灣本身有技術可以加工的部分，怎麼樣增加其原料、降低其成本，才有辦法做？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:02:54.614000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:02:56.674000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:02:56.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:03:07.537000+08:00","text":"這四大金屬裡面，有的是臺灣很強，但是有的需要國際的技術合作，甚至還要考慮到會不會有污染的情況，所以狀況不一樣。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:03:07.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:03:15.579000+08:00","text":"我們現在有一個做法，就是與友好國家洽談相關合作細節，包含整個量能。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:03:15.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:03:27.563000+08:00","text":"因為我們如果押寶某一種金屬，其實在全世界兩個供應鏈體系下，要是另一邊故意把價錢拉下來，就會造成整個產業崩盤，所以我們也在密切注意。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:03:29.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:03:35.667000+08:00","text":"產業鏈要形成，跨國合作這一點是必要的，不然的話，這個產業在臺灣是非常辛苦的。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:03:36.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:03:44.451000+08:00","text":"所以我們目前的確在內部盤點其量能、技術和需求，甚至還有國際供應鏈的問題，現在正在進行當中。對啊！","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:03:44.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:03:53.616000+08:00","text":"所以我剛剛才講，我們先前已經初步盤點，而現在因為中東戰爭的影響，又特別凸顯了這方面的問題。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:03:53.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:04:20.684000+08:00","text":"各國對於稀土、貴稀金屬的出口都有嚴格的限制，也導致現在這些原物料的成本相對提高，但是我們臺灣自己這部分的需求確實也非常大，我相信循環署跟經濟部產發署應該也都開會討論過循環經濟、原物料這些問題嘛！是。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:04:23.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:04:42.873000+08:00","text":"當然也如部長剛剛講的，有些原物料可能有污染的問題，所以你在盤點之後應該加以篩檢，篩檢出哪些是我們有技術可以加工而且非常重要，是不是要找國家進口？","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:04:45.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:04:49.279000+08:00","text":"這些原物料進口量大之後，成本就自然降低。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:04:49.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:04:56.024000+08:00","text":"所以部長是不是應該針對這部分好好規劃一下？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:04:56.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:04:57.544000+08:00","text":"是，我們正在進行當中。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:04:58.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:05:09.609000+08:00","text":"不過進口國外電子廢棄物或相關廢棄物其實還是有環保法規共識的問題，需要再溝通，我們也要評估會不會影響臺灣的環境。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:05:09.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:05:18.853000+08:00","text":"在我們連處理事業廢棄物都有點困難的情況下，能不能容許得更多，都需要整體評估，這些事情我們都在同步進行當中。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:05:19.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:05:23.676000+08:00","text":"那你有沒有預估大概要多久時間、怎麼研擬？","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:05:23.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:05:42.608000+08:00","text":"有哪些國家的循環利用再生料可以開放進口到我們這邊來，讓我們這些業者既有技術，又能夠在這些原物料進口之後將成本降低，增加我們的國防戰略金屬？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:05:43.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:05:54.975000+08:00","text":"其實處理這些貴稀金屬的公司並不很多，而是集中在某些公司，也有些商業機密的問題，所以我們要統計這項資料的時候都非常謹慎小心。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:05:55.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:06:06.663000+08:00","text":"我們當然希望業者跟我們說得多一點點、我們可以掌握多一點點，但有些業者有其考量，所以如何幫助產業順利發展還需要一點點時間。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:06:06.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:06:20.954000+08:00","text":"以目前的整體產業結構，我們需要跟經濟部密切合作，才能在內循環或稀土裡面……因為有些東西是稀土可以處理，有些東西是內循環可以處理，這兩邊如何做好融合，還要跨部會開會。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:06:21.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:06:28.200000+08:00","text":"至於我們內部已經開過幾次會議，還要再往前推進，所以未來我們會跟經濟部設立平臺討論這件事情。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:06:30.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:06:41.088000+08:00","text":"我們是一季一季看推動速度，業者的聲音我們也會定期掌握，但是恐怕沒有辦法那麼快，因為這件事也要看國際局勢的演變。對啊！","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:06:41.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:06:52.394000+08:00","text":"所以我說AI產業本來就已經導致各國對於這些貴稀金屬非常重視，現在剛好又因為中東戰爭更加凸顯這方面的問題。","quality":0.74},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:06:56.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:07:12.355000+08:00","text":"這些產業、這些金屬對臺灣來講又都非常重要，而且也可以說是世界各國國防戰略上非常重要的關鍵原物料，所以希望環境部針對這部分要更加重視。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:07:12.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:07:44.521000+08:00","text":"而且，我們既然已經初步盤點，現在也有很多業者指出我們是有這個技術，只是成本真的太高，所以希望環境部能夠基於業者所提出的意見，針對這些國家戰略關鍵原物料，不單是要好好盤點一下，也要評估怎麼樣向其他友好國家進口這些原物料，讓成本降低，再以我們的技術加工。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:07:44.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:07:47.785000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，現在正在進行當中。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-08T12:07:48.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:07:50.288000+08:00","text":"那也請部長儘快處理。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:07:50.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:07:51.430000+08:00","text":"OK，沒問題，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:07:51.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:07:51.530000+08:00","text":"謝謝涂權吉委員發言。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:07:52.030000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:07:57.172857+08:00","text":"待會王正旭委員詢答完畢後休息30分鐘用餐。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:07:57.472857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:07:59.758571+08:00","text":"請洪孟楷委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}