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謝謝主席我在這邊邀請我們中油公司王董事長還有我們的經濟部長在這裡"},{"start":26.035,"end":54.634,"text":"很簡單啦好謝謝部長我想先就叫我們方董事長中友啊從我們的資料從委員的執行就109年就虧嘛一直持續的虧損難免的虧損我們是一個公司發人質整個經營啊得一個效率造成虧損的原因我們應該要去探討"},{"start":56.024,"end":83.79,"text":"那今天我忽然覺得美國跟伊朗的戰爭搞不好就變成你中友要來提爭執最好的理由跟藉口因為政策的使然我們要平穩物價所有的一個油價的反應政策經濟部行政院就要你中友攜手那你"},{"start":85.086,"end":105.694,"text":"在去年提出一個增資案嘛對不對四年要3500億那也一直沒辦法確定一直到現在你經濟部這邊也正式收到你的這個增資案的一個第一年的一個需求嘛1687億對不對我請問部長"},{"start":111.929,"end":139.044,"text":"他提出這樣的一個政治部長你會認為夠嗎如果戰爭持續的發生另外在我們中友還有程序我們的ART我們對美的一個擴大採購444億美金這樣的一個處理下去中友的政治該怎麼處理我先問部長"},{"start":140.563,"end":164.822,"text":"你會覺得中央應該怎麼增資所謂的增資是為了它設備增加比如說設備增加了嗎就是天然氣的接收站要建置啊等等所以它的增資完全是因為它的設備要增加好我請當總市長你提一下你增資的理由"},{"start":165.735,"end":183.29,"text":"政治的理由就是剛剛部長提到了嘛就是我們一些天然氣的建設它是需要天然氣的建設它是資本性的長期支出嘛對不對所以才要增加好那我請教你現在你的虧損累積虧損怎麼處理"},{"start":187.205,"end":195.171,"text":"你要調整油價嗎?因為你的爭執是要做資本的支出嘛那我請教你現在累積虧損對 差不多了差不多嘛這個累積的虧損要漲油價嗎?"},{"start":205.358,"end":228.456,"text":"是要漲油價所以累積虧損是要用漲油價來處理嗎不是不是你剛剛是這樣回答的喔那我問你來 部長有解報回去嗎為了物價穩定可以漲價嗎不是因為油價有你把真知講得清清楚楚啦對 油價有公司嘛有兩個公司那照公司來講應該不會虧錢啊"},{"start":232.279,"end":243.927,"text":"那個公司是現在來講吸收大部分所以現在來講他吸收的絕大部分一個公司制度如果有價你們有那個機制怎麼會處理到虧損目前從109年的累積虧損到現在絕對就是"},{"start":250.672,"end":278.467,"text":"有問題如果這個虧損是因為政策死難因為政策那你就明明白白跟我們講跟國人同胞講因為政策死難我中油啊吸收了油價就成本所以我的累積虧損現在就是藉由美國跟伊朗的戰爭我一次要政治我要彌補"},{"start":280.288,"end":297.373,"text":"填補我的虧損我的答案是這樣啊針織的部分是未來投資新的設備需要而定那吸收政策吸收的部分是我們希望用撥補的方式但是我們會僅限於這一次他針織1687億嘛那你撥補多少給他"},{"start":305.592,"end":320.704,"text":"波普現在行政院還在討論 還不曉得數字所以爭執歸爭執 爭執跟阿中有去投資阿拉斯加的遊艇軍有沒有關係沒有關係沒有 完全沒有關係 爭執跟這個沒有關係爭執跟我們戰爭 我們產生的累積虧損沒有關係主要來講的話還是為了將來接觸那就是用波普那就要創造另外一個台電了 對不對"},{"start":333.855,"end":338.319,"text":"台電為了一個電價動產那你去虧損我們撥補了3000億吧3000億我記得數字沒錯3000億那是增資啊那是增資那增資跟撥補撥補沒有那麼多"},{"start":351.789,"end":353.131,"text":"波普沒那麼多波普只有500億真資2500億您看到的這個3000億裡面2500億是真資500億是波普"},{"start":367.772,"end":388.398,"text":"所以我們在這邊有沒有了解為了物價的一個穩定中油就是犧牲台電因為你的LNG要跟中油買大家為了物價平衡大家都犧牲但是這個內部一定要讓全體的國人來了解中油的財務結構真的"},{"start":391.219,"end":407.902,"text":"極其可危台電的財務結構我們也要給它做防範所以在這樣的政策博譜之下還有政策的一個這個增資的一個情況之下我希望有一個更明確的說明給我們立法院也給我一個更明確的一個說明這樣好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:10:56.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:10:57.430000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我在這邊邀請中油公司方董事長和經濟部長。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:10:57.430000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:11.233500+08:00","text":"請中油方董事長、經濟部龔明鑫部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:11.233500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:25.037000+08:00","text":"陳委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:25.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:41.194000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長，我先就教方董事長，從我們的資料、從委員的質詢來看，中油從109年就一直持續的虧損，我們是一個公司法人，整個經營效率、造成虧損的原因，我們應該要去探討，今天我忽然覺得美國和伊朗的戰爭搞不好就變成中油用來提增資最好的理由和藉口，因為政策使然，我們要平穩物價，所有的油價反映政策，經濟部、行政院就要中油吸收，你在今年提出增資案，4年要3,500億元，也一直沒辦法確定，一直到現在，經濟部正式收到你的增資案，第一年的需求是1,687億元。","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:41.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:52.912000+08:00","text":"請問部長，它提出這樣的增資，部長認為夠嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:52.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:14.264000+08:00","text":"如果戰爭持續發生，另外中油還要承續ART的對美擴大採購444億美元，這樣處理下去，中油的增資該怎麼處理？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:14.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:19.285000+08:00","text":"先請教部長，該怎麼增資？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:19.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:23.689000+08:00","text":"報告委員，所謂的增資是未來它設備增加，例如……","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:23.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:26.130000+08:00","text":"設備增加了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:27.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:29.953000+08:00","text":"例如天然氣接收站要建置等等需求。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:30.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:35.698000+08:00","text":"所以它的增資完全是因為它的設備要增加？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:37.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:40.802000+08:00","text":"請方董事長說明一下你們增資的理由。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"方董事長振仁","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:42.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:48.441000+08:00","text":"增資的理由就是剛剛部長提到的，就是我們一些天然氣的建設需要資金。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:48.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:52.764000+08:00","text":"天然氣的建設是資本性的長期支出。","quality":1},{"speaker":"方董事長振仁","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:55.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:56.127000+08:00","text":"對，所以才要增加公司的資本。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:58.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:59.270000+08:00","text":"現在你的累積虧損怎麼處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:03.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:04.826000+08:00","text":"你要調整油價嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:04.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:10.490000+08:00","text":"因為你的增資是要作資本的支出，現在你們累積虧損是多少？","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:10.490000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:11.490000+08:00","text":"八百多億元？","quality":0},{"speaker":"方董事長振仁","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:10.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:10.610000+08:00","text":"對，差不多。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:10.610000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:11.610000+08:00","text":"怎麼彌補？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:11.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:11.171000+08:00","text":"要漲油價嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"方董事長振仁","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:11.171000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:21.358000+08:00","text":"是，累積虧損……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:21.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:26.422000+08:00","text":"是要漲油價，所以累積虧損是要用漲油價來處理嘛！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"方董事長振仁","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:27.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:28.104000+08:00","text":"不是，不是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:28.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:29.725000+08:00","text":"你剛剛是這樣回答的啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"方董事長振仁","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:29.725000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:31.886000+08:00","text":"不是，我沒有講過。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:31.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:34.348000+08:00","text":"部長，要漲油價嗎？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:34.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:37.411000+08:00","text":"為了物價穩定，可以漲價嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:37.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:38.612000+08:00","text":"不是，因為油價……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:38.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:41.254000+08:00","text":"你把增資講得清清楚楚。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:41.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:42.515000+08:00","text":"油價有公式。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:43.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:44.436000+08:00","text":"照公式來講，應該不會虧錢啊！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:51.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:54.123000+08:00","text":"所以現在來講，它吸收了絕大部分。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:54.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:58.706000+08:00","text":"一個公司制度上，如果你們油價有那個機制，怎麼會處理到虧損？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:58.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:39.309000+08:00","text":"目前從109年的累積虧損到現在絕對就是有問題，如果虧損是政策使然，你就明明白白跟我們講，跟國人同胞講，因為政策使然，中油吸收了油價成本，所以累積虧損，現在就是藉由美國和伊朗的戰爭，一次要增資填補虧損，我的答案是這樣啊！對！","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:40.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:48.572000+08:00","text":"增資的部分視未來投資新的設備需要而定，政策吸收的部分，我們希望用撥補的方式。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:48.572000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:49.652000+08:00","text":"用撥補？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:49.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:52.153000+08:00","text":"我們會僅限於這次。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:52.153000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:53.153000+08:00","text":"僅限這次，你打算怎麼撥補？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:52.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:53.353000+08:00","text":"要增資1,687億元，你要撥補多少給它？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:01.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:04.334000+08:00","text":"撥補現在行政院還在討論。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:04.334000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:05.334000+08:00","text":"還在討論？對。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:04.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:05.075000+08:00","text":"還不曉得數字？對。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:05.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:12.581000+08:00","text":"所以增資歸增資，增資跟中油去投資阿拉斯加的LNG有沒有關係？","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:12.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:13.502000+08:00","text":"沒有關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:13.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:14.342000+08:00","text":"完全沒有關係？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:14.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:14.803000+08:00","text":"沒有關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:15.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:15.583000+08:00","text":"增資和戰爭產生了累積虧損沒有關係？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:15.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:15.784000+08:00","text":"主要還是為了將來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:15.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:16.704000+08:00","text":"那就是用撥補，創造另一個台電，對不對？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:30.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:31.416000+08:00","text":"台電為了電價凍漲而累積虧損，我們撥補了3,000億元，我記得這個數字沒錯。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:31.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:33.198000+08:00","text":"沒有，那是增資。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:33.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:33.818000+08:00","text":"那是增資？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:33.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:34.299000+08:00","text":"對，撥補沒有那麼多。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:34.299000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:48.410000+08:00","text":"撥補有多少？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:48.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:48.450000+08:00","text":"撥補只有500億元。500億元！","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:48.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:48.931000+08:00","text":"撥補500億元，增資2,500億元，所以你看到的這3,000億元裡面，2,500億元是增資，500億元是撥補。","quality":0.438},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-08T12:17:06.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:17:43.802000+08:00","text":"為了物價的穩定，中油其實犧牲了，台電的LNG也要跟中油買，為了物價平穩，大家都犧牲，但是這個內部一定要讓全體國人了解，中油的財務結構真的岌岌可危，台電的財務結構我們也要給它防範，所以在這樣的政策撥補之下，還有政策增資之下，我希望有一個更明確的說明給我們立法院，也給我一個更明確的說明，好不好？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-08T12:17:43.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:17:43.902000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:17:44.402000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:17:46.402000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳清龍委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:17:46.702000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:17:49.844857+08:00","text":"接下來請王安祥委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}