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我們請吳主委有請吳主委主委好 主委好 主委國科會當然我們討論一下現在全球所關心AI的狀況前兩天英國觀察家報它有排名一個全球的AI指數台灣排名第幾 知道吧"},{"start":21.631,"end":37.302,"text":"觀察家報我不知道耶有沒有看到我沒有看到全球AI指數第一名那這樣子本時要問第二個問題說第一名到第五名有多少個國家是亞洲國家清楚嗎"},{"start":38.359,"end":53.418,"text":"也不清楚我想亞洲大概做得比較好的新加坡韓國日本韓國他前五名分別是美國第一名中國大陸第二名新加坡第三名"},{"start":54.721,"end":73.159,"text":"英國第四名 韓國第五名有三個國家在前五名是亞洲國家而且是鄰近我們所以說相對來講我們自己也要努力因為台灣排名第十六名對 我們也要努力那十六名裡面他這邊特別有講到是說人才產業跟商業生態相對是比較落後"},{"start":73.94,"end":96.622,"text":"所以我覺得在國科會這一塊其實我們可以比較細究的就是人才的培育的部分AI的人才相對重要嘛所以本席今天想要更釐清的狀況是主委你應該也理解是說為什麼新加坡為什麼韓國可以排在比較前面他們人才的培育可能也有投入大量的經費跟資源那我們想要看的是說到底國科會有沒有對於我們台灣的人才培育是"},{"start":97.202,"end":125.073,"text":"一條龍的留住人才的完整的政策還是說一段一段的計畫這一點是我們也希望能夠看到的因為現在看到的是說我們每一個階段每一個階段計畫譬如說有學生的研究計畫有碩博士的研究計畫有博士的研究計畫以及產業的研究計畫但我們有沒有做統計到底有多少的人才他是可以持續的在這個領域上面來研究或是深入的來做一個推進"},{"start":128.107,"end":146.469,"text":"这种追踪我们没有办法做得很完整因为人才的流动很难去追踪到每个人但是刚刚委员讲的各个阶段第一次我们都有投入前段在中小学的部分其实教育部投入很多大学也有"},{"start":146.969,"end":172.815,"text":"但是在研究所以後這個人才就是我們在國科會的這個投入之下培養這個相關的研發的人力這是主要是國科會努力的方向當然國際合作我們跟這個特別是在應用領域我們比較缺乏的這些國家我們來做相關的這個合作這也是我們現在努力的目標"},{"start":174.472,"end":194.312,"text":"本席現在的問題就是說你分階段分階段都有做相關的不管是我們的研究計畫的一個補助或說研究計畫的一個的協助但是他人才的部分他就是分類有大學生的有博士生的有年輕學者的有產業人才的然後還有就是說人設卓越計畫"},{"start":195.433,"end":204.13,"text":"那但是我們現在想問的是說我們投入了那麼多費用到底有沒有把它變成是人才的一個持續培育還是說它就變成是各階段的一個單點單點的一個補助"},{"start":207.663,"end":234.079,"text":"這個才是本席想要請教過去我們已經花錢也許一開始沒有辦法一開始我們草創階段只能每個階段每個階段給予但是現在也已經幾年過去了那也看到說我們感覺有一個瓶頸在本席現在都是以很客觀持平來講因為不管是我剛剛講的全球AI指數或是說其他的機構做的AI感覺起來台灣我們中華民國就是被排名在差不多10名到20名左右"},{"start":234.739,"end":239.928,"text":"所以我們怎麼有辦法是說往前邁進這才是本席今天關心的重點是 我了解"},{"start":241.439,"end":266.565,"text":"台灣歸根究底可能最大的問題就是因為台灣的硬體產業非常的強非常強不管是你在學校培育的是什麼樣的人才大多數好的人才最終都進到我們半導體還有AI硬體的產業因為那邊的獲利比較高比較能夠吸引人才所以反而我們在相關的創新應用系統的"},{"start":269.326,"end":296.107,"text":"那個社會的這個需求人才反而是比較不足這是我們要改善的是 但是現在我們講嘛有些時候站在風頭上連豬都會起飛啊有聽過這句話嗎所以也因此講是說如果說未來的這十年甚至未來的一個趨勢AI的軟體運用是一個很大的產業那我們就不能只是擁抱我們過去因為我們的台積電我們的半導體我們的晶圓相對來講是過去二三十年打下的基礎"},{"start":297.068,"end":312.37,"text":"那但是現在也看到了我們的台積電也往美國有些往美國往日本移動那我們現在要講的是說我們怎麼樣去培育下一個階段產業的趨勢脈動也跟我們來說相結合所以本市比較具體的建議主委你聽聽看"},{"start":314.488,"end":337.122,"text":"針對我們現在有做的不管是大學生、碩博士生或是說年輕的學者的這個有獲得補助的部分是不是定期的能夠追蹤他們到底後續續留在相關AI產業裡面以及他們的這個持續產出的一個可行性來做一個比較完整的趨勢讓我們能夠理解是說我們現在所投入的每一分錢"},{"start":337.762,"end":357.505,"text":"他都等於是打基礎打地基能夠持續的蓋把我們台灣AI人才給持續的留在這個領域並且持續能夠有做累積好謝謝委員這個建議這個其實對我們來講相當的困難因為困難學生離開學校以後他們去向我們"},{"start":358.886,"end":382.007,"text":"我們也很難去他獲得了國科會的研究補助然後後續他怎麼樣是不是有持續留在這個領域精進或者說他可以往哪一個方向發展這個沒有辦法做追蹤我們是沒有辦法追蹤人因為人是很自由在移動他最後會進到哪樣那這樣子他有沒有留在台灣或說甚至有沒有在這個產業持續的扎根"},{"start":383.028,"end":407.902,"text":"跟說我們一次性的補助這個就是本席現在想問的我們不能每過十年之後還做草創的事情嗎我們只能用後續的統計統計我們不會知道說哪個人因為我們沒有權去追蹤個人嘛後續這個產業的發展我們的人才的狀況來回過頭來推算看我們我們投資的是不是能夠產生效益本席現在沒有要的是個案"},{"start":410.723,"end":421.348,"text":"本質要的是說針對你的這樣計畫你至少你能了解是說我們後續你的追蹤是不是有效然後持續在這一個領域裡面能夠有人才的一個培育"},{"start":423.171,"end":438.531,"text":"也許部分是跟教育部有相關但是有許部分是還有經濟部我們會來努力看看來做一下相關的統計來看看那個成效當然我們現在的政策上我們也希望是能夠引導引導非"},{"start":441.175,"end":467.892,"text":"在這個專業領域非電資領域的這些人才這是另外一個階段嘛就等於是說他跨界或是斜槓能夠來參與希望他們能夠善用AI來發展各行各業的滿足他的需求我們現在會努力來做所以我知道這個議題是相對比較大的議題那但是我期待的是國科會他用的經費是能夠讓台灣的人才持續扎根這也是為什麼我會跟你提出來"},{"start":468.712,"end":483.932,"text":"要跨部會我也知道也因此本席才講說由國科會這邊來掌握至少因為未來的社會裡面這個人才的培育是重要的那本席從這個全球AI指數就看到連外國媒體都點出來台灣的困境在於是人才產業"},{"start":485.294,"end":507.572,"text":"那我们就是要想办法补足这一块不过我跟委员报告一个事实就是即使我们培养非常多的AI的人才他虽然最后不是进到AI的产业他是进到台湾的高科技的产业虽然是做半导体AI的设备但是因为这些人的加入让台湾的半导体AI的设备"},{"start":508.833,"end":534.445,"text":"設備的公司我們的智慧製造是全世界最厲害的我們這個產業會這麼強的原因也是因為過去有這種努力各種各樣好的人才都進到這個產業雖然它造成不平衡但是會讓台灣這個產業變成全世界第一名你講那個AI的排名你如果講AI我們過去到現在沒有否定台灣某些產業是第一但是本席現在在講的是其實"},{"start":535.385,"end":538.787,"text":"你不覺得這樣子溝通真的有點困擾你這樣的感覺好像說反正我們排名16無所謂啦18無所謂啦現在AI落後無所謂啦韓國走在前面我沒有這樣講我剛剛已經講過我們怎麼樣講不客氣的怎麼樣在AI產業上面我們也好想贏韓國"},{"start":552.193,"end":579.312,"text":"就这样一件事情所以我刚刚有跟委员报告那结果你现在跟我讲是说没关系反正我们的AI人才也去半导体那半导体不就是过去三四十年我们的竹科投入了然后才有现在的基础所以也许不是一两年有办法超越但是我们现在不做的话永远就没有办法起步不就这么简单吗我们如果没有培养这些AI人才我们的半导体产业没有办法做到今天这种智慧市场没有办法"},{"start":580.373,"end":602.296,"text":"所以這個不是說我們白費力氣培養這些人才我現在沒有講白費力氣我現在講的是人才要聚焦要培育如果說你認為說這一塊沒有那麼重要的話那也不會現在刷碼AI 駭馬AI甚至現在內閣還自詡叫AI內閣結果本席在問的是說連AI的人才到底去了哪裡有沒有好的培育"},{"start":603.016,"end":630.986,"text":"你也回答不出來我剛剛回答了大部分人才跑到我們強勢的產業因為那邊的收入比較高但是我不是說這樣是所以主委我們能不能努力在國科會的努力之下我們也讓台灣的AI產業可以變成是收入比較高比較好的一群讓我們的AI實力能夠比較好有我同意這個但是我剛剛已經解釋我怎麼做我已經剛剛講了我希望能夠協助其他的產業的發展"},{"start":632.768,"end":636.773,"text":"所以最基本的資料先拿出來我們拿數據來說話大家討論數據就是我剛講的現狀未來的發展是AI新時代建設我們要推動全民智慧生活圈"},{"start":648.388,"end":672.097,"text":"就是要做創新應用系統啊要協助其他的產業啊主委 本席都很那好你可不可以聽本席現在我們剛剛講了那麼多的東西其實最主要我要求的就是請國科會跟經濟部跟教育部來討論一下是不是在一定的時間內給我們相關到底你過去這幾年投入AI的人才培育的部分他們的走向"},{"start":672.757,"end":694.178,"text":"以及他們是不是有持續在這個行業還是即便是他到了半導體產業的時候他們怎麼樣去貢獻你至少拿出數據來說服國會說服國人而本期看到一個客觀數據今天不是我去做今天不是台灣排名16並不是我做的是英國觀察人觀察家報他們做出來的一個指標"},{"start":695.439,"end":714.032,"text":"我也沒有否定因為他93個國家我們排名16也有人講是說不錯但是有沒有能夠更好因為前五名有三個國家是亞洲國家我們不比韓國人差我們不比中國大陸人差我們不比新加坡人差我們怎麼樣能夠跟上這才是本席的重點我們在AI的應用我們一定會努力"},{"start":714.853,"end":743.512,"text":"但是在AI的硬體製造台灣是全世界第一的這你不能否認但是我們會努力把台灣的大內宣真的大內宣可以省一省本席要的是怎麼樣能夠一起努力看到我們同仁都在笑了本席要的是我們可以一起努力不是說我們今天關起門來大內宣所以16名怎麼樣能夠往前邁進拿出具體的辦法先從地部整理相關資料我們一起共同再來討論可以嗎"},{"start":744.753,"end":745.514,"text":"多久時間內可以根本息?這個統計齁"},{"start":761.656,"end":786.837,"text":"要跟教育部還有經濟部一起做這個可能要三個月三個月好本席等你三個月好本席要的是真真正正看到數據數據不會騙人數據很科學很理性數據大概會但絕對不是這種你自我感覺良好一直講台灣No.1我不是自我感覺良好台灣當然No.1但是有很多我們不足的地方我們要努力每天都在台灣No.1"},{"start":788.137,"end":813.949,"text":"我們要努力AI新時代建設就希望我們大院趕快把我們的預算通過謝謝 做好 自然我們會好好的來努力但是主委如果說用這種態度的話真的國人都看在眼裡了 拜託我們已經做得很好 台灣的經濟不會發展到這個程度你的數據是排名16 這客觀的事實這不是我的數據啊 拜託 謝謝我們自己排名是第一的啦"},{"start":817.79,"end":818.49,"text":"謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}