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麻煩請彭部長有請彭部長周委員好部長好 我們今天討論的主題是塑膠原物料的穩定供給以及如何減少塑膠的使用在2018年的時候你們有訂定了這個塑膠禁現用為主的政策在歷經七年之後看起來是沒有達標"},{"start":35.818,"end":62.11,"text":"然而部長就是說在去年年底的時候又宣示減塑的這個政策將從淨限用走向總量管理那以2024年為基準年目標是在2030年一次性的這個石化塑膠產品減量5%那在2035年的時候減量10%那我想要請教部長就是說"},{"start":63.07,"end":79.582,"text":"在之前的這個政策失敗之後那你們現在又轉個彎好像改變了政策那主要的原因是什麼因為我其實那時候我上任之後我同仁會帶我去菜市場說要檢索那我也去蹲點我發現那個我們去檢索那天"},{"start":83.184,"end":100.756,"text":"大家比較願意因為有誘因我們不去了之後又回到都是用塑膠袋的一個情況所以我們很努力的去了解這個原因有沒有出現是一個誘因就是沒有誘因就是然後塑膠袋已經變成是零售攤翻攤商夜市市場裡面的一個"},{"start":101.536,"end":118.036,"text":"依賴的一個必需品所以我們基本上想要改就是其實那個四項裡面當時2018訂的時候他並沒有透過很大量的民眾的需求我覺得民眾沒有教育的很成功但是我覺得七年後民眾已經有一個意識了所以我們希望加大所以我多了兩項"},{"start":118.917,"end":148.5,"text":"所以那裡面有的成功有的沒有辦法做得到就是最後一里路就是攤商所以我們目前我們現在是改變一個方式我們用循環經濟的方式例如說給他誘因例如說我就拿一個建國花式來做測試那目前我建國花式因為有10%的人願意用環保循環帶然後我們也導入一些廠商願意給誘因所以我們會認為是說經過這個測試我們蹲點實際上去操作之後我們相信有機會可以成功所以改變他的方式"},{"start":148.78,"end":166.848,"text":"所以聽起來就是其實民眾的習慣要改變也不是很容易的事情很不容易所以除非你替代性的這個的這個東西有替代品的便利性很足夠才比較容易成功嗎對好那剛剛聽這個"},{"start":169.629,"end":190.401,"text":"部長說的就是說大概大概就是說民眾使用的這個部分那我們再來看喔那以總量管理作為目標希望一次性的這個石化塑膠產品減量5%那這邊的總量請教部長你的意思是以這個重量為單位還是以件數還是怎麼樣為單位"},{"start":191.782,"end":206.633,"text":"我們那個六大類然後六大類它的原先它的原物料的產出的這個數值是多少那個六大類以這個目標為下來那這個完全是對標歐盟的標準歐盟歐盟的標準來做定義的"},{"start":208.094,"end":229.751,"text":"這樣聽起來還是有點很模糊喔就是說那你們要怎麼知道說到底有沒有達標基本上我們還是有限定一些場域它必須該限的還是有限例如說我們那個使用者付費必須要付費來取得那個我們還擴大場域因為原先就有14類的現在還會多加很多的場域進去"},{"start":231.292,"end":249.846,"text":"然後另外一個是這個5或是10其實有一定的計算的一個標準所以我們會用那個標準歐盟一樣的標準來定義因為其實全世界對於零售市場最後一底路就是零售市場攤商等等那個全世界因為我們東亞洲的這種"},{"start":250.486,"end":273.974,"text":"大家喜歡吃這種攤販的東西或是市場的東西比較不會去賣場賣場的這個量就會顯著的減少所以目前來看的話我是覺得最後一哩路是困難的但是我們還是想要來試看看但是改變另外一種方法部長你有沒有一個比如說舉個實際案例的套一些數據去做一個試算做範例"},{"start":274.682,"end":299.714,"text":"我舉例例如說建國花市建國花市他大概一天三萬人去做使用然後一般建國花市大概就會提兩到三個大的塑膠袋也就是一天就會有大概如果用三個來看的話就九萬個塑膠袋九萬個塑膠袋那我們後來呢努力到說一天大概可以少掉10%不用用我們循環袋來產生那這個就是一個很顯著的效果好那"},{"start":305.373,"end":331.438,"text":"我想再請教那你們所以這個回收的塑膠是不是也包含在裡面回收的我們現在基本上我們是二手袋啦基本上不希望他再用一次性的塑膠袋用二手袋或是環保袋來做取代或是紙袋各位報告那回收我們是有另外一個那個標準就使用多少的那個再生料的比例"},{"start":332.575,"end":361.59,"text":"因為聽起來好像也不是太容易計算的感覺因為我們用總量算沒有辦法算得很精準的感覺像我們台灣一個平均一個人一年是用384到427個那那個也是從一年有110個除以2300多萬人去除出來的所以基本上我們很難去算出不過我們循環署今年會有一個計畫是專門來評估如何去計算的方式"},{"start":362.15,"end":385.462,"text":"好我想在任何一個政策都要有一個可以檢定的方法跟目標那這裡的一致性的石化塑膠產品聽這麼久部長講這麼多聽起來好像都是針對民眾生活所使用的這個產品那在就是說我們要求的對象是民眾"},{"start":386.522,"end":404.997,"text":"但是好像比較看不到就是說針對營業服務的商家去要求這個是本席看起來是覺得比較奇怪的部分那在這邊我想舉一個例子就是說例如說米酒瓶通常大概就是0.6公升那個玻璃瓶"},{"start":406.238,"end":432.203,"text":"那他們的回收價格如果交由一般的資源回收車或者是拾荒者通常是按這個玻璃重量來計算那價值呢就是每公斤1.5元那如果是持這個空瓶到這個台酒公司的門市美聯社或者合作的這個雜貨店每支空瓶呢大概可以拿回這個2元的這個押品費"},{"start":433.363,"end":462.703,"text":"所以我常常看到就是说卖姜母鸭啊还有这个烧酒机的餐厅呢一次就是一整箱作为单位去回收嘛那再看看我们营业用的这个酱油啊辣椒酱这些食品调味料都是用那种很大桶的那种塑胶桶去包装那如果可以比照这个米酒瓶回收再利用是不是它的效益会更大"},{"start":464.025,"end":464.105,"text":"因為一個"},{"start":466.301,"end":493.146,"text":"5公升的這個空塑膠桶它可以變成多次使用那當然省下來的重量可能就比這個減少幾百個塑膠袋或吸管還要多部長是不是認同本席這樣的建議跟說法那跟委員報告那這部分如果是從產業出來這個比較大的那通常它都有市場誘因所以主要它是藉由那個塑膠的回收市場這邊再來回收會再利用"},{"start":494.41,"end":505.359,"text":"因為環境部目前管制的對象雖然就是說從2018年的塑膠袋、吸管、免洗餐具、飲料杯等四項擴大納入零售包裝跟網購包裝的六項"},{"start":511.804,"end":526.185,"text":"那本席是非常的支持可是還可以再多思考就是說到底有哪一些的這個產品包裝可以從使用一次變成多次的使用特別是那些體積很大"},{"start":526.806,"end":543.578,"text":"重量很大的這些塑膠包裝那可以優先思考跟規劃而且一定要考慮突破其他的法規規定例如說醬油桶在食安法裡面我們食藥署署長在這裡就是他就規定就不能重複使用那"},{"start":544.699,"end":564.765,"text":"也你們也可以就是說思考跟衛福部討論找出可以解決的方法部長是不是可以同樣同意這個點子是蠻好的我們會來討論協商一下看什麼樣的可以再重複的在在利用我們就帶回去跟部長一起去演繹"},{"start":566.084,"end":593.576,"text":"好 謝謝 那那個署長你可以請回座 謝謝那上次在這個國際氣候變遷大會原住民的這個文化與智慧如何運用在減碳的議題上氣候變遷署好像有應該是有積極在規劃邀請國外的原住民團體來參與那因為這個塑膠呢它是屬於這個石化產品那原料呢它是來自於這個石油跟天然氣"},{"start":595.256,"end":615.53,"text":"牽涉的呢不僅是廢棄物的問題那它還有這個氣候升溫控制的密切相關的問題那部長你有沒有思考過就是說我們原住民其實有很多利用天然的植物比如說竹子啊或者是藤類我們會去做用竹子"},{"start":616.511,"end":641.269,"text":"竹筒去製作酒杯那還有就是說以及去編織利用一些藤類竹類的也有就是說去編織各式的這個籃子那包括還有像托特包啊背包啊這些那其實它非常的實用美觀然後很時尚也非常的耐用"},{"start":643.11,"end":659.617,"text":"所以用現有的這個環境的原物料使用在這個生活在生活上來取代這些塑膠的這些製品那建議環境部的官員你們有空的時候到園鄉可以去走走看看去看看"},{"start":660.377,"end":684.524,"text":"這些產品那推廣可以取代一次性的這個塑膠產品給社會大眾那我想就是說除了推廣在地文化的這些意涵之外呢也是有幫助於這個減少排碳減少塑膠產品的這個消耗那其實或許搞不好這樣子的發想我們來一次像從這個"},{"start":686.445,"end":710.616,"text":"部落裡去尋找這一些這樣子一次性可以替代一次性使用的這些作品那大家可以環境部可以辦一次合作辦一次展示那部長也可以走秀做一下示範我想那是蠻不錯的我還蠻想看您背那個部落編織的那個托特包啊或者竹籃應該放公文這樣應該蠻好的"},{"start":712.136,"end":741.136,"text":"委員這個點子蠻好的因為像今年的COP30在巴西去年去年底那他其實就是用大量的原住民把原住民的所有的物品擺在會場裡面讓大家可以去購買可以做使用然後提倡這些事情那我認為這個如何把原住民的對氣候變件的智慧還有他不會製造新的塑膠用這種天然的植物來做我們是非常鼓勵所以委員我們會請雄安署跟氣候署來做規劃今天給你們一些發想"},{"start":741.936,"end":765.277,"text":"那最後就是說我想在這邊還是要誇一下部長因為您是非常具有國際觀的一位部長那全球的這個塑膠公約在2025年的釜山談判第五次那你們也都有派人去也都有同步在關注這些這個議題那同時部長也對外表示說塑膠公約的目標是禁用有問題的塑膠那"},{"start":767.319,"end":791.36,"text":"我國的這個塑膠措施會朝向避免不必要的這個消費和這個促進再使用那改善塑膠產品可回收性的去推動同時也會加強可再生材料替代原生塑膠那今天本期的質詢呢主要是提醒環境部的官員你們一定要跟這個經濟部"},{"start":793.101,"end":817.537,"text":"衛福部還有文化部及園民會還有其他相關部會去盤點相關的法規的限制並且尋求合作善用原住民的這個文化與經驗那減少塑膠產生造成的這個環境垃圾跟環境破壞那這個部分也謝謝部長就是同意有後續有考慮然後有精進的作為"},{"start":818.157,"end":839.835,"text":"可以 這個我們會在委員的指示其實這個塑膠工業是未來很重要的一個重點尤其是說雖然說它有一點緩衝期那可能也不見得會限制全世界到一個法規但是以一個地球村的份子減塑還是我們大家的目標那我們會關切這個塑膠工業它的最新的進展適時的趕快讓產業界知道因為這個衝擊會蠻大的我們要早一點做準備OK 好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":847.244,"end":847.325,"text":"主席"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T12:59:45.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:59:47.896000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:59:47.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:59:48.457000+08:00","text":"有請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T12:59:52.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:59:52.380000+08:00","text":"陳委員好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T12:59:53.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:59:53.321000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T12:59:53.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:00:01.388000+08:00","text":"我們今天討論的主題是塑膠原物料的穩定供給以及如何減少塑膠的使用。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:00:01.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:00:38.269000+08:00","text":"在2018年的時候，你們有訂定塑膠禁限用為主的政策，在歷經7年之後看起來是沒有達標，然而部長在去年年底的時候又宣示，減塑的政策將從「禁限用」走向「總量管理」，以2024年為基準年，目標是在2030年一次性石化塑膠產品減量5%，在2035年的時候減量10%。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:00:38.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:00:50.537000+08:00","text":"我想要請教部長，在之前的政策失敗之後，你們現在又轉個彎改變了政策，主要的原因是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:00:51.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:01:09.089000+08:00","text":"報告委員，其實那時候我上任之後，我同仁會帶我去菜市場說要減塑，那我也去蹲點，我發現我們去減塑那天大家比較願意，因為有誘因，我們不去了之後又回到都是用塑膠袋的情況，所以我們很努力地去瞭解這個原因，然後其實……","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:01:09.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:01:11.451000+08:00","text":"所以部長有沒有出現是一個誘因。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:01:12.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:01:12.672000+08:00","text":"就是沒有誘因啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:01:13.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:01:22.339000+08:00","text":"塑膠袋已經變成零售、攤販、攤商在夜市、市場裡面依賴的一個必需品，所以我們基本上想要改。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:01:22.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:01:41.661000+08:00","text":"其實那4項裡面，當時2018訂的時候，它並沒有透過很大量的民眾需求，我覺得民眾沒有教育得很成功，但是7年後民眾已經有一個意識了，我們希望加大，所以我多了兩項，那裡面有的成功，有的沒有辦法做到，最後一哩路就是攤商。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:01:42.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:02:06.480000+08:00","text":"我們現在是改變方式，我們用循環經濟的方式，例如說給他誘因，我就拿一個建國花市來測試，目前建國花市有10%的人願意用環保循環袋，然後我們也導入一些廠商，願意給誘因，經過這個測試，我們蹲點實際上去操作之後，相信有機會可以成功，所以改變它的方式。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:02:06.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:02:11.922000+08:00","text":"所以聽起來，其實民眾的習慣要改變也不是很容易的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:02:12.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:02:14.563000+08:00","text":"很不容易，所以我……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:02:14.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:02:24.668000+08:00","text":"除非你替代性的這個東西，替代品的便利性很足夠，才比較容易成功嘛！對。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:02:24.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:02:32.852000+08:00","text":"好，剛剛聽部長說的，大概就是民眾使用的這個部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:02:33.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:02:48.141000+08:00","text":"我們再來看，以總量管理作為目標，希望一次性的石化塑膠產品減量5%，這邊的總量，請教部長，你的意思是以重量為單位還是以件數？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:02:48.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:02:48.381000+08:00","text":"還是怎麼樣為單位？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:02:49.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:03:04.613000+08:00","text":"我們那個六大類，原先它的原物料產出數值是多少，然後以這個目標下來，這個完全是對標歐盟的標準，以歐盟的標準來做定義的。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:03:06.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:03:14.040000+08:00","text":"這樣聽起來還是很模糊，你們要怎麼知道到底有沒有達標？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:03:14.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:03:27.731000+08:00","text":"基本上我們還是有限定一些場域，該限的還是有限，例如說使用者付費，必須要付費來取得，那個部分我們還擴大場域，因為原先就有14類，現在還會多加很多的場域進去。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:03:29.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:03:38.299000+08:00","text":"另外一個是，這個5%或是10%其實有一定的計算標準，所以我們會用跟歐盟一樣的標準來定義。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:03:38.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:04:02.631000+08:00","text":"因為全世界對於零售市場，其實最後一哩路就是零售市場、攤商等等，在我們亞洲大家喜歡吃這種攤販的東西或是市場的東西，比較不會去賣場，賣場的量就會顯著地減少，所以目前來看的話，我覺得最後一哩路是困難的，不過我們還是想要來試看看，但是改變成另外一種方法。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:04:02.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:04:11.954000+08:00","text":"部長，你有沒有一個實際案例，比如說套一些數據去做一個試算的範例？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:04:12.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:04:37.494000+08:00","text":"我舉例，例如說建國花市，它大概一天3萬人去使用，然後一般在建國花市大概就會提2到3個大的塑膠袋，如果用3個來看的話，一天就是9萬個塑膠袋，我們後來努力到一天大概可以少掉10%不用，而使用我們的循環袋，這就是一個很顯著的效果。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:04:37.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:04:49.774000+08:00","text":"好，我想再請教，回收的塑膠是不是也包含在裡面？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:04:51.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:04:54.455000+08:00","text":"我們現在基本上是二手袋啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:04:55.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:05:00.936000+08:00","text":"不希望他再用一次性塑膠袋，用二手袋或是環保袋來取代，或是紙袋。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:05:04.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:05:09.418000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，回收我們是有另外一個標準，就是使用多少再生料的比例。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:05:11.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:05:14.657000+08:00","text":"聽起來好像也不是太容易計算的感覺。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:05:14.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:05:17.278000+08:00","text":"因為我們用總量算。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:05:18.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:05:20.860000+08:00","text":"沒有辦法算得很精準的感覺。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:05:20.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:05:39.570000+08:00","text":"對，像我們臺灣平均一個人一年是用384到427個，那個也是從一年有100億個除以兩千三百多萬人去除出來的，所以基本上我們很難去計算，不過循環署今年會有一個計畫是專門來評估如何去計算的方式。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:05:40.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:05:46.873000+08:00","text":"好，我想任何政策都要有一個可以檢定的方法跟目標啦！是。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:05:47.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:06:13.649000+08:00","text":"這裡的一次性石化塑膠產品，聽這麼久，部長講這麼多，聽起來好像都是針對民眾生活所使用的產品，我們要求的對象是民眾，但是好像比較看不到針對營業服務的商家去要求，這個是本席看起來覺得比較奇怪的部分。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:06:14.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:06:36.640000+08:00","text":"在這邊我想舉一個例子，例如米酒瓶，通常就是0.6公升的玻璃瓶，如果交由一般的資源回收車或者是拾荒者，它的回收價格通常是按玻璃重量來計算，那價值就是每公斤1.5元。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:06:37.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:07:01.990000+08:00","text":"如果是持空瓶到臺酒公司的門市、美廉社或者合作的雜貨店，每一支空瓶大概可以拿回2元的押瓶費，所以我常常看到賣薑母鴨還有燒酒雞的餐廳，一次就是一整箱作為單位去回收。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:07:03.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:07:20.683000+08:00","text":"再看看我們營業用的醬油、辣椒醬這些食品調味料，都是用那種很大桶的塑膠桶去包裝，如果可以比照米酒瓶回收再利用，是不是它的效益會更大？","quality":0.817},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:07:22.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:07:35.263000+08:00","text":"因為一個5公升的空塑膠桶可以變成多次使用，當然省下來的重量可能就比減少幾百個塑膠袋或吸管還要多。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:07:36.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:07:39.244000+08:00","text":"部長，是不是認同本席這樣的建議跟說法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴署長瑩瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:07:40.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:07:51.126000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，如果是從產業出來這種比較大的，通常它都有市場誘因，所以主要是藉由塑膠的回收市場再來回收，會再利用。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:07:53.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:08:33.853000+08:00","text":"環境部目前管制的對象，從2018年的塑膠袋、吸管、免洗餐具、飲料杯等4項，擴大納入零售包裝跟網購包裝共6項，本席非常地支持，可是還可以再多思考到底有哪一些產品包裝可以從使用一次變成多次使用，特別是那些體積很大、重量很大的塑膠包裝可以優先思考與規劃，而且一定要考慮突破其他的法規規定。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:08:34.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:08:41.338000+08:00","text":"例如醬油桶在食安法裡面，我們食藥署署長在這裡，它就規定不能重複使用嘛！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:08:43.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:08:48.341000+08:00","text":"你們也可以思考跟衛福部討論，找出可以解決的方法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:08:48.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:08:51.061000+08:00","text":"部長，是不是可以同意這麼做？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:08:52.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:08:58.143000+08:00","text":"好，委員這個點子滿好的，我們會來討論協商一下，看什麼樣的可以再重複利用。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-08T13:09:00.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:09:02.365000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，我們就帶回去跟部長一起研議，謝謝。","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:09:04.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:09:08.866000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，署長請回座。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:09:10.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:09:40.461000+08:00","text":"上次在國際氣候變遷大會，原住民的文化與智慧如何運用在減碳的議題上，氣候變遷署應該有積極在規劃邀請國外的原住民團體來參與，因為塑膠是屬於石化產品，原料是來自於石油跟天然氣，牽涉的不僅是廢棄物的問題，它還有氣候升溫控制密切相關的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:09:40.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:09:42.263000+08:00","text":"部長，你有沒有思考過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:09:43.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:10:29.094000+08:00","text":"我們原住民其實有利用很多天然的植物，比如說竹子或者是藤類，我們會用竹筒去製作酒杯，以及利用一些藤類或竹類去編織各式的籃子，像托特包、背包這些，其實它非常的實用美觀，很時尚也非常地耐用，將現有環境的原物料使用在生活上來取代這些塑膠製品。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:10:30.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:11:28.596000+08:00","text":"我建議環境部的官員有空的時候可以到原鄉去走走，去看看這些產品，推廣可以取代一次性塑膠的產品給社會大眾，我想除了推廣在地文化的這些意涵之外，也是有助於減少排碳、減少塑化產品的消耗，或許以這樣子的發想，我們到部落裡去尋找這一些可以替代一次性使用的作品，環境部可以合作辦一次展示，部長也可以走秀做一下示範，我想那是滿不錯的，我還滿想看您背部落編織的托特包或者竹籃，放公文應該滿好的。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:11:30.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:11:44.906000+08:00","text":"可以，委員這個點子滿好的，因為像去年底的COP30在巴西，它其實就是用大量的原住民……把原住民所有的物品擺在會場裡面，讓大家可以去購買、可以使用，然後提倡這些事情。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:11:45.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:11:57.715000+08:00","text":"我認為如何把原住民對氣候變遷的智慧，還有它不會製造新的塑膠，用這種天然的植物來做，我們是非常鼓勵，所以我們會請循環署跟氣候署來規劃。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:11:57.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:11:59.116000+08:00","text":"對，今天是給你們一些發想啦！好。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:12:00.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:12:42.814000+08:00","text":"最後，在這邊還是要誇一下部長，因為您是非常具有國際觀的一位部長，全球塑膠公約2024年在釜山談判第5次，你們也都有派人去，也都有同步在關注這個議題，同時部長也對外表示，塑膠公約的目標是禁用有問題的塑膠，我國的塑膠措施會朝向避免不必要的消費、促進再使用及改善塑膠產品可回收性的方向去推動，同時也會加強可再生材料替代原生塑膠。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:12:42.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:13:15.537000+08:00","text":"今天本席的質詢主要是提醒環境部的官員，你們一定要跟經濟部、衛福部、文化部及原民會還有其他相關部會去盤點相關的法規限制，並且尋求合作，善用原住民的文化與經驗，減少塑膠產生造成的環境垃圾跟環境破壞，這個部分也謝謝部長同意後續有考慮，然後有精進的作為。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:13:16.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:13:37.254000+08:00","text":"可以，這個我們會照委員的指示，其實塑膠工業是未來很重要的一個重點，雖然說它有一點緩衝期，可能也不見得會限制全世界到一個法規，但是以一個地球村的份子，減塑還是我們大家的目標，我們會關切塑膠公約最新的進展，適時地趕快讓產業界知道，因為衝擊會滿大的，我們要早一點準備。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-08T13:13:37.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:13:37.815000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T13:13:37.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T13:13:37.835000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T13:13:38.335000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:13:40.906429+08:00","text":"謝謝陳瑩委員的發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T13:13:41.206429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:13:44.349286+08:00","text":"接下來我們休息用餐30分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T13:13:44.649286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:13:45.792143+08:00","text":"休息（13時13分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T13:13:46.092143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:13:47.806429+08:00","text":"繼續開會（13時46分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T13:13:48.106429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:13:49.820714+08:00","text":"現在繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T13:13:50.120714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:13:54.977857+08:00","text":"葉元之委員、葉元之委員、葉元之委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T13:13:55.277857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:14:02.420714+08:00","text":"接著請楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T13:14:02.720714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:14:09.863571+08:00","text":"接著請鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T13:14:10.163571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:14:17.306429+08:00","text":"接著請徐欣瑩委員，徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T13:14:17.606429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:14:19.606429+08:00","text":"接著請楊曜委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T13:14:19.906429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:14:22.763571+08:00","text":"劉委員要不要跟他交換？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-08T13:14:23.063571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:14:26.777857+08:00","text":"他長得這麼奇怪，我怎麼幫他講？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-08T13:14:27.077857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:14:30.220714+08:00","text":"叫我代替彭部長還差不多。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T13:14:30.520714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:14:33.092143+08:00","text":"搞不好彭部長會傷心。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T13:14:33.392143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T13:14:36.249286+08:00","text":"接著請劉建國委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}