{"error":false,"id":["168306"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168306,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168306","日期":"2026-04-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-08T12:59:38+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-08T13:13:45+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:07","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/70d8fc05dcd8abb03484ddb46fcbc82d01ae777e4c72867eb9fb3178c14150d917444451dbb786d95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"12:59:38 - 13:13:45","會議時間":"2026-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部就「穩定供給與減塑並進：因應國際原物料波動之原物料穩定供應及我國減塑治理進程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n一、審查「廢棄物清理法條文修正草案」9案：\n（一）委員馬文君等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員顏寬恒等19人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林淑芬等22人擬具「廢棄物清理法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員張宏陸等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員邱議瑩等21人擬具「廢棄物清理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員許智傑等29人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員劉建國等19人擬具「廢棄物清理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查「資源回收再利用法修正草案」2案：\n（一）委員許智傑等28人擬具「資源回收再利用法修正草案」案。\n（二）委員盧縣一等16人擬具「資源回收再利用法修正草案」案。\n【專題報告及法律案綜合詢答，法律案僅詢答】\n【4月8日及9日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.966593750000001,"end":7.388468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.624718750000001,"end":10.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.750343750000003,"end":14.661593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.67846875,"end":14.712218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.712218750000002,"end":59.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.13971875,"end":62.603468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.94096875,"end":71.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.63159375000001,"end":82.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.98846875000001,"end":92.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.39221875000001,"end":93.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.97409375000001,"end":148.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.76721875,"end":154.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.28534375,"end":156.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.30221875,"end":154.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.47096875,"end":155.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.34409375,"end":159.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.51284375,"end":156.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.29721875,"end":163.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.25846875000002,"end":164.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.81534375,"end":167.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.33409375000002,"end":166.43534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.13971875000001,"end":169.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.55721875,"end":185.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.58846875,"end":191.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.46096875,"end":202.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.22721875000002,"end":203.40846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.94846875000002,"end":204.42096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.02846875,"end":206.81721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.50909375,"end":212.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.41971875000002,"end":215.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.64284375000003,"end":264.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.34409375,"end":269.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.36846875000003,"end":272.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.03471875,"end":274.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.46909375,"end":299.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.79409375,"end":303.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.31659375000004,"end":312.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.38721875000005,"end":323.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.03096875,"end":324.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.68909375000004,"end":325.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.66784375000003,"end":331.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.40096875,"end":335.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.33721875000003,"end":336.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.59846875,"end":339.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.12159375000005,"end":339.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.36596875000004,"end":342.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.18846875,"end":362.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.13471875000005,"end":372.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.19284375,"end":368.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.27659375,"end":375.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.98909375000005,"end":386.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.41784375000003,"end":398.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.22596875000005,"end":401.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.97659375,"end":405.48659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.19534375,"end":432.75659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.06034375,"end":450.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.59346875000006,"end":460.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":460.44846875,"end":462.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.99221875,"end":464.54909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.92034375000003,"end":465.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":466.06784375,"end":477.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.99846875000003,"end":481.77846875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麻煩請彭部長有請彭部長周委員好部長好 我們今天討論的主題是塑膠原物料的穩定供給以及如何減少塑膠的使用在2018年的時候你們有訂定了這個塑膠禁現用為主的政策在歷經七年之後看起來是沒有達標"},{"start":35.818,"end":62.11,"text":"然而部長就是說在去年年底的時候又宣示減塑的這個政策將從淨限用走向總量管理那以2024年為基準年目標是在2030年一次性的這個石化塑膠產品減量5%那在2035年的時候減量10%那我想要請教部長就是說"},{"start":63.07,"end":79.582,"text":"在之前的這個政策失敗之後那你們現在又轉個彎好像改變了政策那主要的原因是什麼因為我其實那時候我上任之後我同仁會帶我去菜市場說要檢索那我也去蹲點我發現那個我們去檢索那天"},{"start":83.184,"end":100.756,"text":"大家比較願意因為有誘因我們不去了之後又回到都是用塑膠袋的一個情況所以我們很努力的去了解這個原因有沒有出現是一個誘因就是沒有誘因就是然後塑膠袋已經變成是零售攤翻攤商夜市市場裡面的一個"},{"start":101.536,"end":118.036,"text":"依賴的一個必需品所以我們基本上想要改就是其實那個四項裡面當時2018訂的時候他並沒有透過很大量的民眾的需求我覺得民眾沒有教育的很成功但是我覺得七年後民眾已經有一個意識了所以我們希望加大所以我多了兩項"},{"start":118.917,"end":148.5,"text":"所以那裡面有的成功有的沒有辦法做得到就是最後一里路就是攤商所以我們目前我們現在是改變一個方式我們用循環經濟的方式例如說給他誘因例如說我就拿一個建國花式來做測試那目前我建國花式因為有10%的人願意用環保循環帶然後我們也導入一些廠商願意給誘因所以我們會認為是說經過這個測試我們蹲點實際上去操作之後我們相信有機會可以成功所以改變他的方式"},{"start":148.78,"end":166.848,"text":"所以聽起來就是其實民眾的習慣要改變也不是很容易的事情很不容易所以除非你替代性的這個的這個東西有替代品的便利性很足夠才比較容易成功嗎對好那剛剛聽這個"},{"start":169.629,"end":190.401,"text":"部長說的就是說大概大概就是說民眾使用的這個部分那我們再來看喔那以總量管理作為目標希望一次性的這個石化塑膠產品減量5%那這邊的總量請教部長你的意思是以這個重量為單位還是以件數還是怎麼樣為單位"},{"start":191.782,"end":206.633,"text":"我們那個六大類然後六大類它的原先它的原物料的產出的這個數值是多少那個六大類以這個目標為下來那這個完全是對標歐盟的標準歐盟歐盟的標準來做定義的"},{"start":208.094,"end":229.751,"text":"這樣聽起來還是有點很模糊喔就是說那你們要怎麼知道說到底有沒有達標基本上我們還是有限定一些場域它必須該限的還是有限例如說我們那個使用者付費必須要付費來取得那個我們還擴大場域因為原先就有14類的現在還會多加很多的場域進去"},{"start":231.292,"end":249.846,"text":"然後另外一個是這個5或是10其實有一定的計算的一個標準所以我們會用那個標準歐盟一樣的標準來定義因為其實全世界對於零售市場最後一底路就是零售市場攤商等等那個全世界因為我們東亞洲的這種"},{"start":250.486,"end":273.974,"text":"大家喜歡吃這種攤販的東西或是市場的東西比較不會去賣場賣場的這個量就會顯著的減少所以目前來看的話我是覺得最後一哩路是困難的但是我們還是想要來試看看但是改變另外一種方法部長你有沒有一個比如說舉個實際案例的套一些數據去做一個試算做範例"},{"start":274.682,"end":299.714,"text":"我舉例例如說建國花市建國花市他大概一天三萬人去做使用然後一般建國花市大概就會提兩到三個大的塑膠袋也就是一天就會有大概如果用三個來看的話就九萬個塑膠袋九萬個塑膠袋那我們後來呢努力到說一天大概可以少掉10%不用用我們循環袋來產生那這個就是一個很顯著的效果好那"},{"start":305.373,"end":331.438,"text":"我想再請教那你們所以這個回收的塑膠是不是也包含在裡面回收的我們現在基本上我們是二手袋啦基本上不希望他再用一次性的塑膠袋用二手袋或是環保袋來做取代或是紙袋各位報告那回收我們是有另外一個那個標準就使用多少的那個再生料的比例"},{"start":332.575,"end":361.59,"text":"因為聽起來好像也不是太容易計算的感覺因為我們用總量算沒有辦法算得很精準的感覺像我們台灣一個平均一個人一年是用384到427個那那個也是從一年有110個除以2300多萬人去除出來的所以基本上我們很難去算出不過我們循環署今年會有一個計畫是專門來評估如何去計算的方式"},{"start":362.15,"end":385.462,"text":"好我想在任何一個政策都要有一個可以檢定的方法跟目標那這裡的一致性的石化塑膠產品聽這麼久部長講這麼多聽起來好像都是針對民眾生活所使用的這個產品那在就是說我們要求的對象是民眾"},{"start":386.522,"end":404.997,"text":"但是好像比較看不到就是說針對營業服務的商家去要求這個是本席看起來是覺得比較奇怪的部分那在這邊我想舉一個例子就是說例如說米酒瓶通常大概就是0.6公升那個玻璃瓶"},{"start":406.238,"end":432.203,"text":"那他們的回收價格如果交由一般的資源回收車或者是拾荒者通常是按這個玻璃重量來計算那價值呢就是每公斤1.5元那如果是持這個空瓶到這個台酒公司的門市美聯社或者合作的這個雜貨店每支空瓶呢大概可以拿回這個2元的這個押品費"},{"start":433.363,"end":462.703,"text":"所以我常常看到就是说卖姜母鸭啊还有这个烧酒机的餐厅呢一次就是一整箱作为单位去回收嘛那再看看我们营业用的这个酱油啊辣椒酱这些食品调味料都是用那种很大桶的那种塑胶桶去包装那如果可以比照这个米酒瓶回收再利用是不是它的效益会更大"},{"start":464.025,"end":464.105,"text":"因為一個"},{"start":466.301,"end":493.146,"text":"5公升的這個空塑膠桶它可以變成多次使用那當然省下來的重量可能就比這個減少幾百個塑膠袋或吸管還要多部長是不是認同本席這樣的建議跟說法那跟委員報告那這部分如果是從產業出來這個比較大的那通常它都有市場誘因所以主要它是藉由那個塑膠的回收市場這邊再來回收會再利用"},{"start":494.41,"end":505.359,"text":"因為環境部目前管制的對象雖然就是說從2018年的塑膠袋、吸管、免洗餐具、飲料杯等四項擴大納入零售包裝跟網購包裝的六項"},{"start":511.804,"end":526.185,"text":"那本席是非常的支持可是還可以再多思考就是說到底有哪一些的這個產品包裝可以從使用一次變成多次的使用特別是那些體積很大"},{"start":526.806,"end":543.578,"text":"重量很大的這些塑膠包裝那可以優先思考跟規劃而且一定要考慮突破其他的法規規定例如說醬油桶在食安法裡面我們食藥署署長在這裡就是他就規定就不能重複使用那"},{"start":544.699,"end":564.765,"text":"也你們也可以就是說思考跟衛福部討論找出可以解決的方法部長是不是可以同樣同意這個點子是蠻好的我們會來討論協商一下看什麼樣的可以再重複的在在利用我們就帶回去跟部長一起去演繹"},{"start":566.084,"end":593.576,"text":"好 謝謝 那那個署長你可以請回座 謝謝那上次在這個國際氣候變遷大會原住民的這個文化與智慧如何運用在減碳的議題上氣候變遷署好像有應該是有積極在規劃邀請國外的原住民團體來參與那因為這個塑膠呢它是屬於這個石化產品那原料呢它是來自於這個石油跟天然氣"},{"start":595.256,"end":615.53,"text":"牽涉的呢不僅是廢棄物的問題那它還有這個氣候升溫控制的密切相關的問題那部長你有沒有思考過就是說我們原住民其實有很多利用天然的植物比如說竹子啊或者是藤類我們會去做用竹子"},{"start":616.511,"end":641.269,"text":"竹筒去製作酒杯那還有就是說以及去編織利用一些藤類竹類的也有就是說去編織各式的這個籃子那包括還有像托特包啊背包啊這些那其實它非常的實用美觀然後很時尚也非常的耐用"},{"start":643.11,"end":659.617,"text":"所以用現有的這個環境的原物料使用在這個生活在生活上來取代這些塑膠的這些製品那建議環境部的官員你們有空的時候到園鄉可以去走走看看去看看"},{"start":660.377,"end":684.524,"text":"這些產品那推廣可以取代一次性的這個塑膠產品給社會大眾那我想就是說除了推廣在地文化的這些意涵之外呢也是有幫助於這個減少排碳減少塑膠產品的這個消耗那其實或許搞不好這樣子的發想我們來一次像從這個"},{"start":686.445,"end":710.616,"text":"部落裡去尋找這一些這樣子一次性可以替代一次性使用的這些作品那大家可以環境部可以辦一次合作辦一次展示那部長也可以走秀做一下示範我想那是蠻不錯的我還蠻想看您背那個部落編織的那個托特包啊或者竹籃應該放公文這樣應該蠻好的"},{"start":712.136,"end":741.136,"text":"委員這個點子蠻好的因為像今年的COP30在巴西去年去年底那他其實就是用大量的原住民把原住民的所有的物品擺在會場裡面讓大家可以去購買可以做使用然後提倡這些事情那我認為這個如何把原住民的對氣候變件的智慧還有他不會製造新的塑膠用這種天然的植物來做我們是非常鼓勵所以委員我們會請雄安署跟氣候署來做規劃今天給你們一些發想"},{"start":741.936,"end":765.277,"text":"那最後就是說我想在這邊還是要誇一下部長因為您是非常具有國際觀的一位部長那全球的這個塑膠公約在2025年的釜山談判第五次那你們也都有派人去也都有同步在關注這些這個議題那同時部長也對外表示說塑膠公約的目標是禁用有問題的塑膠那"},{"start":767.319,"end":791.36,"text":"我國的這個塑膠措施會朝向避免不必要的這個消費和這個促進再使用那改善塑膠產品可回收性的去推動同時也會加強可再生材料替代原生塑膠那今天本期的質詢呢主要是提醒環境部的官員你們一定要跟這個經濟部"},{"start":793.101,"end":817.537,"text":"衛福部還有文化部及園民會還有其他相關部會去盤點相關的法規的限制並且尋求合作善用原住民的這個文化與經驗那減少塑膠產生造成的這個環境垃圾跟環境破壞那這個部分也謝謝部長就是同意有後續有考慮然後有精進的作為"},{"start":818.157,"end":839.835,"text":"可以 這個我們會在委員的指示其實這個塑膠工業是未來很重要的一個重點尤其是說雖然說它有一點緩衝期那可能也不見得會限制全世界到一個法規但是以一個地球村的份子減塑還是我們大家的目標那我們會關切這個塑膠工業它的最新的進展適時的趕快讓產業界知道因為這個衝擊會蠻大的我們要早一點做準備OK 好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":847.244,"end":847.325,"text":"主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}