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的確現在在部會分工上面那近海的漁業勞工的部分會是勞工部這邊來組成那遠洋漁業的部分會是農業部漁業署所以這部分其實他當然都是在漁撈業下所以漁撈業下包括近海包括遠洋那近海的部分是勞工部組的 遠洋部分是可是2024年我們統計就有18555人的遠洋"},{"start":151.727,"end":167.255,"text":"境外聘用的那個外籍漁工漁工權益到底要誰來把關還是說這些承諾就像你剛剛講會不會你在這個記者會講的承諾只有近海的沒有遠洋的如果說不歸啊那部長那在這個"},{"start":169.135,"end":196.624,"text":"在台美貿易協定上承諾的說治本協定生效日期三年內因於台灣之法律為從事遠洋漁業之非國民的移工提供相當於我國從事相當相同職業值國民享有的勞動權的一個保障那個跟文說明你剛才念的這一段其實是約束跟美方的承諾是這樣那可能請約束這邊來對好"},{"start":198.004,"end":226.757,"text":"那我先繼續先來提問 等一下我們再請那個署長這邊一併來做回答所以我們先來談一個就是我們扣留身份的文件是我們的國際勞工組織的11項強迫勞動的指標之一兩公寓平行報告也指出來說大部分的漁業的移工都會被以出海工作不好保管為由要求簽署請雇主仲介為其保管的志願書"},{"start":227.857,"end":249.735,"text":"但我想點出這個全責歸屬的問題現在境外僱用外籍漁工不適用就業服務法所以我想請問部長說境外僱用的外籍漁工也能有這個保障嗎這個政策會如何落實第一個事情是其實我們今天早上行政院院會已經會通過應該是會來討論列為討論案"},{"start":254.373,"end":276.923,"text":"就是關於這個救福法裡面那要把那個禁止留置勞工相關重要文件包括護照包括其他一些相關的許可文件的這樣子的修法的法案那如果今天早上的行政院會有在院會通過的話那會馬上的送到立法院來做審議"},{"start":278.854,"end":291.483,"text":"那但遠洋漁工的部分確實現在在行政院的部會分工裡面目前還是經濟部嗎?是漁業署他們有相關的法規應該會來處理這件事情來"},{"start":294.045,"end":309.865,"text":"署長 相關法規是什麼跟委員報告就是說我們遠洋漁業其實在民國60年代就開始發展它一開始發展的時候其實它高度仰賴境外僱傭的漁工它的制度就是在境外"},{"start":310.886,"end":325.343,"text":"這一個聘僱境外解僱所以當時那一塊裡面他一直沒有適用勞基法是這麼來的那剛剛委員特別提到說這一個證件的扣留的部分對 蘇長你先回答這個證件扣留"},{"start":325.843,"end":340.257,"text":"那我們在去年也特別修了那剛剛就是說我們走的是遠洋漁業條例授權的相關的法規嘛那在去年我們針對這一個政見扣留這一個部分我們也修法明文禁止說那什麼時候"},{"start":340.977,"end":354.893,"text":"已經修完了現在我們就明文禁止說不管是船長、船東、仲介都不能違反漁工的意願去扣留他的文件為什麼現在民團還是他們現在在處理這個時候還是碰到這些問題"},{"start":360.86,"end":382.233,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在一年我們所有的漁船裡面我們的訪查率大概達到將近60%也就是說100條船我訪了60條船這個扣留證件這件事是我們避訪的一個題目就是說漁工你有沒有被船方扣留證件我們高度重視這個議題"},{"start":383.294,"end":394.989,"text":"署長你可能把相關的你剛剛講到你們查訪的這些東西相關的資料再給我們因為我覺得時間的關係再來就是我覺得針對於優化仲介評鑑這一塊民團認為現在的評鑑相關資訊沒有完全公開"},{"start":399.054,"end":423.606,"text":"職方代表有求人兼裁判之嫌而且憑一些流於形式我現在是簡單化事實上他們報告給我的東西事實上是非常的多而且更應該要跟移工有直接溝通的一個機制都沒有所以美國的人口範圍報告當中也直接進行說將社會公民的團體的意見比如包括製造業跟移工代表跟專家及從業人員的意見你們正式納入人力"},{"start":424.566,"end":448.806,"text":"中介的評鑑的一個程序當中可是現在的評鑑就是中介的評鑑事實上是由我們的民業部約署來主管那我先問部長說可是在記者會上在優化評鑑這一塊事實上是洪山部長講的所以我就想說你們兩個邊的分工到底是什麼而且這次優化的評鑑制度會做出什麼樣的改善嗎"},{"start":451.439,"end":461.768,"text":"其實現在在移工的這個主管方面大家在行政院這邊的部會分工其實大概就是我剛才說的"},{"start":463.735,"end":482.752,"text":"包括製造業營造業家庭看護工甚至現在的幫傭那以致近海的這個移工近海的漁業移工其實都是有勞動部這邊相關署管的法規來去做管轄可是平建是他們呢"},{"start":483.832,"end":510.946,"text":"呃,評鑑的部分當然會涉及到他們,他們遠洋還是他們,但我們也會有這個國內的部分的中介評鑑,那我們目前其實也在規劃這個中介評鑑的優化的做法,尤其是要把這個公平招募的概念給放進來,那剛剛委員講到說在這個評鑑的過程裡面,我我自己的確認為各個厲害相關方都應該被納入進來,可以表達他們的意見跟想法,那包括當然包括民間團體好,"},{"start":511.966,"end":535.071,"text":"那也請漁業署也是比照辦理現在歐向不是只有我們落地的有管那遠洋的你沒有管然後那個評鑑你沒有辦法處理根據委員報告其實我們的評鑑因為我們既然走了遠洋漁業條例也有仲介機構那我們其實都是參考勞動部相關的規定建立了這一個仲介評鑑制度那評鑑委員的部分我們"},{"start":536.111,"end":563.039,"text":"學長我覺得還是時間的關係所以請你都有相關的資料給我是說包含你們這幾年邀請的委員是誰不是只有資方跟學者那民間團體甚至一些漁工代表都沒有這個請你們再把相關的報告給我報告沒問題那勞動部承諾三年內要去落實我們的製造業跟漁勞業的移工的那個"},{"start":563.679,"end":585.179,"text":"我剛剛也聽到部長也講說你們接下來要做我看報告也有我認為這當然是利益良善的政策可是我想追問三個問題第一個三零零付費的年度進度的那個指標是什麼那第二個是說如果沒有達成的話問責機制是什麼還有這項政策到底是誰來主動是農業部還是是勞動部"},{"start":588.611,"end":616.547,"text":"跟委員說明喔其實三年內那要以這個法規的方式來禁止像製造業跟漁勞業的移工收取招募還有相關的費用這部分是我們跟美方在ART裡面相關的承諾的事項是那我們的確我們認為這一個這個方向其實也符合目前國際上面勞動權益規範的部分可是如果沒有達成的話你的問責其實"},{"start":618.315,"end":646.452,"text":"其實我想這個政策方向當然就是我們要去努力去做的事情那也跟我們坦白說明其實因為台灣確實我們的中小企業比較多所以我們會在這裡面會需要有一點這個調試期這個所謂的調試期就是這三年所以在這三年的過程裡面我們現在其實已經在ART通過前我們已經發布了指引那接下來會有相關的宣導那我們也會來調整像剛剛我們剛才講到的"},{"start":646.892,"end":665.088,"text":"包括仲介的評鑑甚至其實相關的制度我們會一步一步的在這三年內讓我們的產業然後有能力來去因應接下來這樣子國際的要求那我再去問一個就它外籍漁工母國的仲介費用這次是不是也是你們要去處理的範圍"},{"start":666.329,"end":694.22,"text":"跟委員報告一樣啊這個招募費的禁止收取這一個部分我們國內的部分在我們境外僱用的遠洋漁工的部分我們現在已經是已經修法完成了禁止我們的仲介機構對那是這邊是那來源國的部分因為我們也支持就是跟勞動部的政策就是說未來漁工來到台灣都是要零付費但是現在來源國這一端他的收費"},{"start":695.14,"end":713.918,"text":"其實是有一點不夠透明那到底要收多少我想這一個是應該雙邊我們台灣跟來源國雙邊要諮商好如果要由我們台灣的雇主要全額來吸收也沒關係大家要談清楚就是說你來源國那一邊你的費用從"},{"start":715.82,"end":734.753,"text":"這一個護照見檢然後訓練到他的所謂的服務費到底多少可能要講清楚要不然我們僱主會有一個不知所措說那我答應了說由我僱主付那結果像印方收的這個招募費可能6000到7000美金那這個不談清楚的時候是很難跟我們僱主去說明的好 署長一樣這個還是提供我書面資料最後就是針對於"},{"start":745.7,"end":764.172,"text":"能不能擴大我們的災保的納保對象那因為之前我就先請教過部長了那部長說當然沒有辦法向家事移工那我們也有問過漁業署漁業署是說商保都有可是基本上怎麼會跟民團的說法都不一樣因為時間關係我很簡單的就是希望"},{"start":767.234,"end":784.317,"text":"約署可不可以給我你們所謂商保的納保率到底多少那數據提供給我然後未來我覺得還是要問我們的勞動部我們還是希望能夠朝向能夠納入在我們的那個災保法的一個納保對象是否有可能"},{"start":785.143,"end":801.634,"text":"先跟委員報告這一個資料提供沒問題那我們現在法制是強制要求通通是要納入商業保險重點就是問題是你們的納保率說很高跟民團的那個狀況就說的是不一樣所以說請你們提供所有的相關數據給我們讓我們了解到否則的話我們覺得這個根本好像"},{"start":808.118,"end":828.512,"text":"是一邊講這個一邊講那個可是根本我們也是沒有辦法看數據最後我們就希望說不要把部分勞工排除在保障之外應該將境外的聘僱的外籍漁工一起納入到我們的勞動保險的法規所以我還是希望我們的勞動部能夠去研議跟漁業署這邊來共同合作"},{"start":830.083,"end":844.641,"text":"跟我們說明其實包括在這次這個台美的這個貿易談判裡面其實我想農業部約署其實也很清楚的確國際上面是要求說在遠洋漁工他其實要受到的這個"},{"start":846.202,"end":871.095,"text":"勞動上面的權力的保障其實應該要往這個本國人去往這個方向去拉起所以我說這部分其實方向上是這樣所以即便用不同的法規可是這個要求的標準其實現在也要往拉起的方向去目前這是我們跟農業部會分工在跟這個社會的談判裡面其實方向是這樣就算是不同的法規"},{"start":872.156,"end":882.403,"text":"但是盡量要求的標準要趨近好 再麻煩 謝謝好 謝謝丁育群 張偉的發言也謝謝各起"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}