{"error":false,"id":["168329"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168329,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168329","日期":"2026-04-09","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-5-36,15-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[36,15],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會","內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-09T09:49:59+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-09T10:02:20+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:21","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc73d0e2aa38946a3f29dfcc871f89f4d358ce3249aa741ed414daafd34e6f2862c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"09:49:59 - 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謝謝主席 我們有請貝提寧人請貝提寧人委員好是 貝提寧人許檢察官您好那麼今天這場同意權的審查我想這不是只是在審查一個人您個人本身而是在審查整個台灣的檢查體系我們究竟是要停留在過去"},{"start":33.052,"end":48.798,"text":"守舊的這種威權移序還是說我們要邁向真正的法治國家那我必須在這裡坦白的說我發現現在的檢查制度已經不是零星的個別問題而是它可能是涉及到一個整體系統性的失靈所以接下來我的問題可能會環繞在整個檢查權制度的問題然後也要就教您的看法"},{"start":54.62,"end":58.204,"text":"那我們知道其實現在台灣的檢查制度呢主要是採的是這個單偵查主體制度所以檢察官他同時握有偵查權還有起訴權甚至他可能會實質的影響到審判的這樣的能力那麼這個在比較法上面其實可以說是相對來說比較老舊的一個過度集權的設計因此可能會發生濫權的機率極高"},{"start":78.664,"end":92.472,"text":"那麼以韓國為例我們知道在這個他們從2022年一直到最近2026年的3月份他們基本上對於整個檢查權的制度進行大幅度的修改那麼甚至已經廢除了檢察官的調查權的制度規定終結了韓國78年來的這種偵查起訴一把抓的歷史明確走向偵查與起訴分立"},{"start":102.638,"end":129.479,"text":"限縮檢查權限以及強化外部監督的這個方向但是呢台灣我們看到我們的檢查改革制度幾乎是原地踏步都沒有任何的進展所以我在這裡想請教被提名人您是否認同目前台灣檢查制度的這種一手偵查一手起訴的制度其實已經導致了權力的過度集中我們是不是未來可能可以參考像是日本韓國等等國家納入司法"},{"start":132.341,"end":141.509,"text":"警察為偵查主體檢察官就回歸到起訴的專業還是您個人認為其實現在制度是毫無問題請您回答"},{"start":144.241,"end":171.374,"text":"謝謝委員我目前認為我們檢察官為偵查主題沒有問題然後但是因為工作量負荷很重所以我們現在是在檢討的是有哪些案子可以免於解送可以在警察這一端就在報告檢察官同意之後可以在當地就做處理這樣可以免除警察的移送檢察官的一個夜間的訊問這是可以改良"},{"start":171.994,"end":173.142,"text":"但是韓國的這個制度"},{"start":174.781,"end":197.086,"text":"我們再觀察因為真的嗎委員你真的相信這個偵查權移給警察你真的睡得著覺嗎有沒有客觀性獨立性以及資源分配的問題每個國家的國情或有不同但是呢不得不說其實日本韓國的制度的確是有我國值得參考的地方那麼我剛剛問的是說檢察官會不會有濫權有權力過度集中的問題我覺得這個議題其實跟檢察官的工作量的負荷"},{"start":204.127,"end":229.348,"text":"沒有太大直接的相關因為我們知道其實現在的這個圖片就是大家社會上面對於司法不獨立然後司法有濫權的問題其實很大一部分可能都是因為檢查制度的關係所造成人民的一個印象那我覺得這個部分其實是值得檢討的或許我們不需要就是像這個日本韓國完全都是以"},{"start":230.048,"end":247.74,"text":"司法警察作為最主要的偵查主體但是未來有沒有可能納入相關的案件可以有所謂的雙偵查主體的這個制度我覺得這個是可以思考的這個部分的話可能邀請檢察總長假設如果您未來被提名人有幸擔任檢察總長的話我覺得應該要去嚴正的思考這個問題好那接下來我要談的就是說您在自傳當中曾經有提到過就是說檢察官的辦案不應該只是追求定罪率更應該要有勇氣去"},{"start":260.568,"end":283.275,"text":"認錯和糾錯可是我們要怎麼樣去認錯跟糾錯呢這個部分的話是本席想請教的首先呢您說這個追求定罪率不是檢察官辦案的一個主要目標那麼可是追求定罪率不是法務部向來的主張嗎那麼如果不追求定罪率的話那麼是不是未來檢察官他可能濫刑起訴或是待遇起訴的問題會更為嚴重"},{"start":287.526,"end":307.739,"text":"報告委員 你要相信我 我當檢察官的時候從來不看報表因為我認為辦案的正確性就是定罪率是隨著你的努力他自己就會上去 那有什麼好看的而且每個月的新案子那麼多 我沒有時間去看這個東西我的意思是檢察官不要只有看到那個定罪率 而是看到"},{"start":309.361,"end":323.795,"text":"當事人的人權公平審判的機會要給當事人有充分講話的機會有利跟不利的多要加以注意這樣才能夠做正確的判斷了解謝謝貝庭銘仁您的說法但是不可否認的"},{"start":324.696,"end":340.004,"text":"日本的定罪率是高達九成以上台灣的定罪率其實普遍來講大概就七八成像一些國安案件的定罪率它更低所以我要講就是說是這個部分的話也是值得思考整體來講不會只有七八成我們也是九成向來整個法務部的主張"},{"start":340.644,"end":342.705,"text":"現在我們看到檢察官幾乎沒有退場機制現行的評鑑制度可能收了很多案件但是他成立的比例是微乎其微"},{"start":362.792,"end":374.288,"text":"這代表說這個制度可能根本不是一個監督機制而是他更像是一個庇護的一個制度就保護檢察官那麼所以請問被庭免人如果說一個檢察官他濫刑起訴不起訴或是濫權上訴那麼幾乎"},{"start":378.013,"end":402.331,"text":"到最后都不会有任何的惩处那么人民要如何相信司法呢更何况就是说我们现在知道我们因为要推动就是呃人民这个司法信任度的提高啊然后人民参与司法所以现在已经有国民法官法就是国民去参与刑事审判法那未来在侦查的部分您是否支持我们也可以参考像是日本的做法制定检查审查会的专法"},{"start":403.132,"end":409.556,"text":"我們可以強化淘汰制度,也就是說讓人民也可以去參與有關於檢察官的這個檢察的這個總統作為"},{"start":415.773,"end":432.878,"text":"有關於監督檢察官我們本來就有評鑑委員會我們還有懲戒法院檢察院的彈劾這些都是在監督檢察官是不是依法在執行職務我們現在個案已經很多就是有人提出來檢舉我們會去調查"},{"start":436.019,"end":463.197,"text":"但是事實上他的退場機制他的監督機制還是不夠延遲這一年來有四個檢察官已經被撤職了就是累積下來一年內有四位我們給他調整職務了所以我們是有退場機制不是沒有你現在支不支持未來如果說可以讓人民也可以參與刑事的審查制度"},{"start":464.48,"end":468.524,"text":"本來人民就可以申請個案評鑑啊您知道現在法務部本身有在推動這個法嗎沒有 應該是沒有您回去好好看你的立法計畫吧徐檢察官你還擔任法務部次長兩年吧 就每一年的立法計畫裡面都有這個法"},{"start":488.21,"end":511.488,"text":"所以您看看是不是支持國民參與檢查審查法這個是你們自己的立法計畫接下來我還要再問一個就是社會上最有感的一個問題就是有關於淨檢文化那理論上偵查應該不公開但是為了保護被告的名譽避免輿論的審判 維護司法公正但是現在我們看到的情況是什麼"},{"start":513.951,"end":531.63,"text":"搜索還沒有結束,筆錄還沒有做完,特定媒體就已經掌握了這個相關的細節,甚至連偵查的方向都精準的掌握。那麼邢太昭總長說,其實偵查不公開很難做到。我想請問您,您認為偵查不公開是不是真的很難做到,無法落實,所以它只是一個訊示規定?"},{"start":532.971,"end":552.279,"text":"我們要承認他很難但是我們還是會依規定必要的時候一定要立案偵辦然後事實要對外說明我們還是會努力的去偵辦我們過去這些年裡面有沒有曾經有兩個檢察官是因為違反偵查不公開的原則而被處分的沒有"},{"start":552.699,"end":575.2,"text":"沒有所以這代表什麼代表也有可能另外你現在內部的監督機制其實出了很大的問題所以本先生想請教就是說假設您有幸上任你是否可以承諾就是未來可以建立偵查的存取追蹤機制如果說一旦有發生外洩追查到人或是對洩密者可以進行實質的懲處這個我們可以列入考慮"},{"start":580.48,"end":590.704,"text":"因為有些看起來有些很多是技術面的問題麻煩是可以再請我最後一分鐘的時間我會快快講我認為說偵查不公開的問題非常重要也希望被提名如果您有事上的話應該要好好去處理這個問題然後最後一個問題就是有關於就是說因為您曾經擔任過國安局副局長但時間並不長其實只有九個月的時間"},{"start":607.291,"end":614.992,"text":"那么我想请问您,您认为国安局和检察官之间的两者关系是如何?两者的职权逻辑思维是相同的吗?"},{"start":616.755,"end":624.939,"text":"我想他們的職責是不一樣的一個是犯罪偵查 一個是情報的收集跟研析那不一樣 可是我們辦理國安所以就是因為兩個的體系 他的職權邏輯思維是並不一樣所以基本上是屬於一個緊張對立的關係那麼就辦理這個相關的國安的這個偵查案件不會是對立"},{"start":642.387,"end":657.374,"text":"根據為導向 為主可是我們可以看到在過去檢察官所偵辦的案件當中雖然說起訴跟被告的人數是逐年攀升可是他的定罪率以及定罪被告的人數卻是這個看起來是 曲線是下滑的所以我想請問被提名人以你過去的官員經驗是否會影響到你對偵查發動門檻的認定你將來會不會傾向採取的是"},{"start":668.36,"end":672.284,"text":"用預防性偵查取代證據導向的偵查你怎麼樣確保偵查體系不會國安思維化不會被國安思維滲透"},{"start":681.052,"end":709.055,"text":"我們國安專組的檢察官在偵辦國安案件的時候都非常非常的等於是精準的來蒐集這些證據但是先天上他是有困難的他是有困難的但是我們檢察官還是不會放棄那我們二審對國安案件他也有一個確定判決的延期的一個小組也會把所有的可能被被法院不接受的一些判決我們會把它相關的資料都蒐集起來再做延期"},{"start":709.295,"end":724.065,"text":"本席非常期待就是假設您之後擔任有幸擔任檢察總長的話還是要抓住就檢察官最重要的職權就要以證據當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然當然"},{"start":737.253,"end":738.259,"text":"好 那你上午就問到這邊好 謝謝好 謝謝董事長李委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}