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補助給他了對不對他可能是人行道改善工程結果他自己又多出一點點錢然後就不只變成人行道改善工程他連道路什麼什麼改善然後一起來"},{"start":134.107,"end":144.434,"text":"那跟原來的計畫不大一樣喔這個我相信我們在審議的時候都會看他因為他提出來的計畫的範圍、範疇來看不是啦,你聽不懂市長,你聽不懂我說的嗎你們就是審書面書面的時候到時候實際上的執行他的計畫有時候會變有時候會變得不一樣"},{"start":158.295,"end":169.279,"text":"這點你們有百分之百能去防範嗎?有百分之百說你這樣不行嗎?或者是他的計畫會變得更好但我發現我們現在好像沒有這個機制好 署長"},{"start":174.151,"end":191.954,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實每一個案子齁從報計畫到設計我們其實都審查那施工的過程我們有去督導我們地方分市都有去督導那他變更設計咧他變更設計咧對變更設計我們也是要報到我們這邊齁是啊然後那個我跟委員報告就是說有些地方政府他在做人行道的時候他周邊"},{"start":192.635,"end":216.18,"text":"或者是要改車溝又搭配其他的案子他們會再去自籌那避免說整個路挖兩次商家會抗議不是不是不是你們跟我講的這都是程序這個是走公務人員行政人員走程序的回答對不對他的變更設計就像你說的他可能要多做一些我剛剛講要多做一些結果咧變位了"},{"start":219.656,"end":246.245,"text":"他本來申請的是A結果到最後已經變成B了我之前就有要求過我現在只問你們這個機制建立了沒就好了因為這個樣態太多啦那我只問你們有沒有建立這個機制而已我那時候只要求要建立機制而已"},{"start":247.709,"end":267.827,"text":"變更有沒有這個機制?我們目前在做這些變更的話,我們有這個機制我覺得以你們現在的回答,你們這個機制我認為是沒有建立所以你們才會回答成這樣為什麼我要提這個?"},{"start":273.24,"end":282.459,"text":"因為很多的人行道的改善我們是優先要做人行道的改善工程但變成時間一拖再拖本來"},{"start":284.188,"end":309.651,"text":"幾個月的工程可能變成一年本來這個變化太大了這個我覺得很多的時效、很多的什麼你們要有這個機制你這個機制我覺得很容易建立,也不用我在這邊跟你們說另外我想請問一下我們新北市到底報了幾件核准的幾件"},{"start":310.976,"end":325.094,"text":"新北市的這個內政部的部分總共已經核定了32件已經核定了32件,5億5千萬報了幾件?"},{"start":332.179,"end":337.901,"text":"已經提報36件 合併了32件對嘛 36合併32嘛 對不對那已經合併了5億多了嘛 對不對這個裡面也有我爭取的好幾件啊 對不對那交通部勒"},{"start":354.243,"end":382.445,"text":"總共新北市報了三案,那我們合了兩案總共三案的錢是八千一百三十五萬所以你合訂的比例因為我都有在追我認為你們的合訂比例也不算低那你有的是還沒合訂吧所以你們剛剛的回答是不漂亮的你們剛剛交通部你們的回答是不漂亮的"},{"start":384.156,"end":409.178,"text":"對啊,來到這邊你回答立委,你這樣子回答會造成全國的誤解還好我都有在追蹤這個整個永續提升人權安全計畫的這個,我都還有在追蹤我就覺得不對啊,你們回答的是不大對的啊,對不對所以你們要回答要精確一點啦,好不好"},{"start":412.535,"end":439.882,"text":"所以我拜託一下署長署長我剛剛說的那些我們不是要找地方政府麻煩我們只是要求他要做得快速一點然後照計畫來不要一個案子下去然後拖了很久你結果造成民怨然後地方政府就說沒有啊這是中央的啊中央的事啊他不知道是地方政府發包的"},{"start":441.252,"end":453.393,"text":"那結果你們都背黑鍋而且我也覺得這樣不對你一個工程就要盡速做嘛你要嘛要求地方政府你要變更計畫你要做什麼我們不反對"},{"start":454.417,"end":471.749,"text":"但你實效性 工程的實效性 你要把它整合起來嘛 一起做嘛而不是他們就 有的是這個發包 那個發包 結果這樣一段一段做那結果造成了交通擁擠 造成了很多的問題那他們一推 這是中央的計畫"},{"start":473.891,"end":484.043,"text":"這個我認為不對啦,對全國人民,對每天在那邊出路的人,在那邊走的人,我認為都是不對的我們會要求設計階段就全部把它整合好好,謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:27:48.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:27:53.400000+08:00","text":"請部長、次長及署長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T09:27:53.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:28:03.182000+08:00","text":"麻煩部長、次長及署長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:28:03.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:28:30.635000+08:00","text":"我想先請問劉部長，之前在質詢時，就曾提醒內政部、交通部，有關永續提升人行安全計畫之類的計畫，若有補助地方政府的話，都是給錢而已，至於地方怎麼設計、怎麼做，好像都不管。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:28:33.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:28:41.777000+08:00","text":"所以我那時候也要求你們注意，雖然是補助給地方，但地方如何設計、如何什麼的，要注意有沒有照計畫來？","quality":0.581},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:28:41.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:28:43.518000+08:00","text":"有沒有任意更改？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:28:44.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:28:50.440000+08:00","text":"你們答應我會有審核機制，不知道現在做得如何？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-09T09:28:50.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:28:54.501000+08:00","text":"有審核機制，是不是請署長跟次長回應一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-04-09T09:28:56.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:29:03.724000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，原則上兩個部會都一樣，都有初審制度跟複審制度。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-04-09T09:29:04.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:29:15.108000+08:00","text":"在初審制度裡，地方政府提出時，均委託相關專業單位提出，且相關的改善情形都要經交通技師簽證。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-04-09T09:29:16.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:29:26.734000+08:00","text":"就整體性來看，是有嚴厲的督導程序，不管是交通部……都有相關指引供大家使用。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:29:27.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:29:28.535000+08:00","text":"次長，我講的不是程序。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:29:29.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:29:36.120000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，補助已經給他了，對不對？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:29:36.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:29:52.808000+08:00","text":"可能是人行道改善工程，結果他自己又多出一點點錢，之後就不只是人行道改善工程了，連道路什麼什麼改善也一起來，跟原來的計畫不大一樣。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-04-09T09:29:53.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:29:56.711000+08:00","text":"我相信我們在審議的時候都會以它提出來的計畫範圍、範疇來看，如果是變成……","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:29:56.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:29:57.211000+08:00","text":"不是啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:29:58.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:29:59.133000+08:00","text":"次長，你聽不懂我說的嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:29:59.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:30:01.434000+08:00","text":"你們就是審書面，但到時候實際執行計畫時可能會有變更，有時候會變的不一樣啊！","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:30:15.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:30:18.936000+08:00","text":"這一點你們能百分之百去防範嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:30:19.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:30:21.857000+08:00","text":"會百分之百去說這樣不行嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:30:21.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:30:25.759000+08:00","text":"或者是它的計畫會變得更好，但我發現我們現在好像沒有這個機制。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:30:26.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:30:26.279000+08:00","text":"好，請署長說明。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-04-09T09:30:31.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:30:39.722000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實每一個案子從報計畫到設計我們其實都有審查，施工的過程我們也有去督導，地方分支都有去督導。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:30:39.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:30:41.465000+08:00","text":"那他變更設計呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:30:41.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:30:42.626000+08:00","text":"他如果變更設計呢？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-04-09T09:30:42.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:30:44.869000+08:00","text":"變更設計也是要報到我們這邊。是啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-04-09T09:30:45.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:30:57.017000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有些地方政府在做人行道的時候，周邊或者是要改車溝又搭配其他的案子，他們會再去自籌，避免整個路挖兩次，商家會抗議，所以這個部分我們會處理。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:30:57.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:30:57.697000+08:00","text":"不是、不是、不是！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:30:59.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:31:06.959000+08:00","text":"你們跟我講的都是程序，這個是公務人員、行政人員走程序的回答，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:31:06.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:31:35.102000+08:00","text":"他的變更設計就像你說的可能要多做一些，我剛剛也講了要多做一些，結果變味了，本來申請的是A，結果到最後已經變成B了，我之前就有要求過，我現在只問你們這個機制建立了沒就好，因為這個樣態太多啦！","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:31:38.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:31:43.225000+08:00","text":"我只問你們有沒有建立這個機制而已，我那時候只要求要建立機制而已啦！","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-04-09T09:31:50.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:31:52.696000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們目前在做這些變更的話是有這個機制的。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:31:54.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:32:04.287000+08:00","text":"我覺得以你們現在的回答來看，你們這個機制應該是沒有建立，所以你們才會回答成這樣。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:32:04.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:32:04.827000+08:00","text":"為什麼我要提這個呢？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:32:10.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:32:33.339000+08:00","text":"因為很多人行道的改善，我們是優先要做人行道改善工程，但時間一拖再拖，本來幾個月的工程可能變成一年，這個變化太大了，我覺得很多的時效、很多的什麼，你們要有這個機制啦！","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:32:34.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:32:39.684000+08:00","text":"這個機制我覺得很容易建立，也不用我在這邊跟你們說。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:32:39.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:32:46.631000+08:00","text":"再來，另外我想請問一下，我們新北市到底報了幾件、核准了幾件？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-04-09T09:32:47.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:33:02.014000+08:00","text":"新北市在內政部的部分，已經核定了32件、5億5,000萬。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:33:02.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:33:02.074000+08:00","text":"報了幾件？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-04-09T09:33:09.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:33:10.759000+08:00","text":"提報36件，核定32件。對嘛！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:33:11.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:33:12.200000+08:00","text":"報36件、核定32件嘛，對不對？","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:33:12.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:33:13.840000+08:00","text":"已經核定了5億多了嘛……對。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:33:13.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:33:14.521000+08:00","text":"這個裡面也有我爭取的好幾件啊，對不對？有。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:33:14.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:33:14.781000+08:00","text":"交通部呢？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林副局長聰利","start":"2026-04-09T09:33:31.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:33:38.929000+08:00","text":"報告委員，新北市總共報了3案，我們核了2案，3案的錢總計是8,135萬。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:33:38.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:33:50.258000+08:00","text":"所以你核定的比例，因為我都有在追，我認為你們的核定比例也不算低，而且有的是你們還沒核定吧，對不對？對。","quality":0.689},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:33:52.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:33:59.425000+08:00","text":"對嘛，所以你們剛剛的回答是不漂亮的，剛剛交通部的回答是不漂亮的……","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-04-09T09:33:59.425000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T09:34:01.156000+08:00","text":"數據沒有掌握好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:34:01.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:34:06.681000+08:00","text":"對啊，來到這邊回答立委，你這樣的回答會造成全國的誤解耶！","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:34:08.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:34:17.830000+08:00","text":"還好我都有在追蹤整個永續提升人行安全計畫，我都還有在追蹤，我就覺得不對啊！","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:34:17.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:34:26.158000+08:00","text":"你們回答的是不大對的，所以你們的回答要精確一點啦，好不好？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:34:29.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:35:31.372000+08:00","text":"所以我拜託一下署長，我剛剛說的那些並不是要找地方政府麻煩，我們只是要求它要做得快速一點，然後照計畫來，不要一個案子下去拖了很久，結果造成民怨，然後地方政府說沒有，這是中央的事，他不知道是地方政府發包的，結果你們都背黑鍋，而且我也覺得這樣不對，一個工程就要儘速做，要嘛要求地方政府，要變更計畫或要做什麼我們不反對，但是工程的時效要把它整合起來一起做，而不是讓他們自己這個發包、那個發包，結果一段一段做，造成了交通的擁擠，也造成了很多的問題，然後他們就推說這是中央的計畫，這個我認為不對啦！","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:35:31.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:35:37.119000+08:00","text":"對每天在那邊出入的人、在那邊走的人，我認為都是不對的。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-04-09T09:35:37.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:35:40.162000+08:00","text":"我們會要求設計階段就全部把它整合好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-09T09:35:41.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T09:35:41.043000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T09:35:41.543000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T09:35:44.685857+08:00","text":"下一位請蘇巧慧委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}