{"error":false,"id":["168337"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168337,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168337","日期":"2026-04-09","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-09T09:40:00+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-09T09:57:34+08:00","影片長度":"00:17:34","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc77368218f699a0a060a49e36d97d29c5f8ce3249aa741ed418ce2492c85169a165ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱慧洳","委員發言時間":"09:40:00 - 09:57:34","會議時間":"2026-04-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、經濟部、農業部就「防制強迫勞動與公平招募：台灣移工制度接軌國際人權與供應鏈治理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【4月8日及9日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.489093750000002,"end":11.708468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.872843750000001,"end":15.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.353468750000001,"end":19.977218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.078468750000003,"end":21.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.32221875,"end":26.929718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.929718750000003,"end":27.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.49909375,"end":32.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.58284375,"end":33.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.15221875,"end":39.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.41284375,"end":40.868468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.712218750000005,"end":48.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.609718750000006,"end":51.415343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.56721875,"end":64.44284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.08409375000001,"end":70.99034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.20971875000001,"end":77.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.90909375000001,"end":93.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.24409375,"end":99.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.89721875000001,"end":155.41596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.75346875,"end":166.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.28346875,"end":173.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.13034375,"end":214.91721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.62596875000003,"end":221.12721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.54909375000003,"end":236.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.61846875,"end":272.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.95034375,"end":292.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.93909375000004,"end":291.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.96409375,"end":306.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.39221875000004,"end":313.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.61471875,"end":334.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.79721875,"end":335.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.65784375000004,"end":357.88221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.55721875,"end":360.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.98721875,"end":363.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.07909375,"end":367.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.12534375,"end":374.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.22596875000005,"end":372.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.45346875,"end":385.33784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.79784375,"end":388.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.13096875,"end":386.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.33721875000003,"end":390.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.99096875000004,"end":402.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.55034375,"end":422.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.88471875000005,"end":425.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.65596875,"end":428.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.97659375,"end":433.33034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.33096875,"end":429.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.58346875,"end":437.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.59159375,"end":436.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.90346875,"end":438.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.90346875,"end":439.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.19846875,"end":440.50221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.50221875000005,"end":446.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.24034375,"end":442.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.22721875,"end":445.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.94846875,"end":455.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.96534375000005,"end":447.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.33596875,"end":451.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.89221875000004,"end":468.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.49471875,"end":462.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.20346875,"end":462.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.14846875,"end":463.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.84846875000005,"end":466.20284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.44721875000005,"end":473.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.45471875000004,"end":489.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.19659375000003,"end":479.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.30971875000006,"end":484.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.14034375000006,"end":488.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.69284375,"end":489.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.76034375,"end":489.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.92909375000005,"end":490.31721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.51971875000004,"end":493.89471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.94534375,"end":493.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.35034375000004,"end":525.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.18971875000005,"end":496.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.21909375,"end":497.87721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.78846875000005,"end":499.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.66971875,"end":502.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.28034375000004,"end":510.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.90784375,"end":518.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.53096875,"end":528.4209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.64034375,"end":542.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.71159375,"end":532.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.8503437500001,"end":535.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.2803437499999,"end":537.7022187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.2378437500001,"end":540.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.4822187500001,"end":560.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.1797187500001,"end":607.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.64909375,"end":609.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.28159375,"end":611.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.3234687500001,"end":672.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.73596875,"end":686.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.06284375,"end":692.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.69471875,"end":710.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.83971875,"end":738.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":738.31221875,"end":746.5303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.85096875,"end":751.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":752.1328437500001,"end":802.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.97721875,"end":831.1753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":831.2765937500001,"end":838.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":839.0222187500001,"end":861.7022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":861.76971875,"end":862.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":863.8115937500002,"end":866.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":866.6297187500002,"end":876.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":874.8815937500001,"end":874.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":877.10909375,"end":895.4522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":881.6653437500001,"end":881.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":884.65221875,"end":884.8715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":885.5972187500001,"end":885.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":891.53721875,"end":892.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":893.52846875,"end":894.0515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":894.79409375,"end":898.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":900.14346875,"end":906.4209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":906.9778437500001,"end":925.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":927.54846875,"end":934.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":932.77971875,"end":933.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":933.6572187500001,"end":935.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":935.69909375,"end":937.0828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":935.7665937500001,"end":936.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":936.7959687500002,"end":939.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":939.20909375,"end":974.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":941.06534375,"end":941.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":944.84534375,"end":945.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":946.68471875,"end":947.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":958.5984687500002,"end":959.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":961.56846875,"end":962.2097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":972.14909375,"end":972.1828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":974.56221875,"end":1015.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":986.4084687500001,"end":986.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1015.70346875,"end":1035.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1026.16596875,"end":1026.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1026.5540937500002,"end":1026.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1030.65471875,"end":1030.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1030.70534375,"end":1031.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1031.1440937500001,"end":1031.1778437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1032.9834687500002,"end":1033.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1035.88596875,"end":1036.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1036.0715937500001,"end":1042.9903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1036.0884687500002,"end":1036.1222187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1036.9322187500002,"end":1037.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1037.28659375,"end":1037.3372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1039.8515937500001,"end":1042.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1042.8384687500002,"end":1046.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1043.0915937500001,"end":1043.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1047.1922187500002,"end":1047.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1048.52534375,"end":1049.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1049.5884687500002,"end":1053.18284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.898,"end":19.589,"text":"主席還有各位委員各位政府部門的同仁大家好好那有請洪部長有請洪部長"},{"start":26.997,"end":48.322,"text":"好部長好部長我上次在這裡質詢你的議題是違約金的問題那我這次想跟你就教的問題是留任獎金的問題這樣子那我想部長跟我一樣應該對於這個違約金條款的一些相關規範有一些基本的了解就是"},{"start":50.25,"end":70.56,"text":"醫院他為了留住護理人員不想讓護理人員任意離職所以他會寄出違約金條款來約束護理人員的離職自由但是這個違約金條款要經過必要性跟合理性的檢驗才能夠看他是不是有效的違約金條款那如果是無效的就沒有辦法約束護理人員的自由"},{"start":71.34,"end":93.112,"text":"那也許是這幾年勞權議事抬頭 雇主已經慢慢的意識到說用違約金條款來約束護理人員的離職自由 其實很容易因為它無效而約束不住所以開始改弦易策 那個腦筋就慢慢動到其他的方式 例如說留任獎金"},{"start":94.313,"end":111.651,"text":"早期會比較用違約金的方式去約束護理人員的自由那現在比較洋氣用違約金但洋氣並不是完全根絕如果完全根絕就沒有必要上次來這邊再跟部長對於違約金的事情來做交流那現在就是他們"},{"start":113.412,"end":126.878,"text":"比較傾向是用留任獎金的方式去留住護理人員的心去留住護理人員的人在職場因為畢竟留任獎金是一個鼓勵性質的手段那所以我這邊先給部長看一下這個"},{"start":128.038,"end":155.016,"text":"留任獎金的這個手段真的是已經慢慢出現在醫院要留人的方式了那這是上個禮拜的這個報導那這邊就提到說台中醫院為了留人所以呢三年祭出18萬意思就是護理人員如果能夠認滿三年就可以取得18萬的留任獎金那這個是去年12月9號的新聞那這是一個地方政府介入"},{"start":155.916,"end":173.477,"text":"在要如何去挽救護理人力的故事那台東縣政府他就宣布他投入4000萬然後呢作為這7家醫院在留任護理人員的時候給予留任獎金的一個後盾給予留任獎金的一個後盾"},{"start":174.258,"end":194.628,"text":"那這個羅東醫院是在去年的5月9號其實這就是在護師節的前夕所以護師節的前夕是會有一些放送的那我這邊提醒部長今年的護師節是5月12號那通常護師節的前夕會有放送一些東西那個什麼薪資的提升 勞動小生的改善所以我這邊先預告給部長知道還有一個月的時間可以準備看要送什麼禮物給護理人員那羅東博愛醫院他們就是"},{"start":203.593,"end":220.838,"text":"祭出了兩年12萬的留任獎金那一樣屏東縣也是在去年護士節的前夕那就說我們縣內的7家醫院趕快過來跟我喝一個大和解咖啡和解什麼呢就是你們要祭出"},{"start":221.638,"end":246.822,"text":"高的留任獎金然後跟遠離跟逃離醫界的護理師和解了不要讓他們覺得這裡很不溫暖然後都要跑到外面去工作所以我們祭出這個獎金應該是說我們號召醫院來去討論這些獎金的必要性那政府能夠給予什麼一些的資源政府會提出那所以18家醫院也從善如流"},{"start":247.042,"end":270.416,"text":"那分別祭出一萬到十萬不等的留任獎金所以我們可以從這些新聞其實都是近期的新聞然後可以看到說醫院其實他慢慢的想用一些鼓勵性的方式把護理人員留下來好那現在這就是我要請教部長一個最重要的一個層次的問題了當然給留任獎金是沒有問題的可是留任獎金的發放時間點"},{"start":273.258,"end":289.623,"text":"發放在前或發放在後可能會有不同的糾紛的呈現那我先跟部長說明一下我們舉一個具體的例子例如說有個護理師他承諾在這家醫院任滿12個月然後12個月之後他就能夠取得留任獎金3.6萬這樣子那現在是"},{"start":293.024,"end":313.595,"text":"以A情境來說好了這個護理人員他進來上班然後呢他就坐著坐著真的轉眼間坐到12月了好啊坐到12月了嘛12月就能夠有3.6萬的留院獎金所以這時候呢醫院就發3.6萬的留院獎金給他這是A情境那B情境呢是他"},{"start":314.839,"end":332.431,"text":"願意在這邊任滿12個月那當然也要領到3.6萬的獎金但是僱主的發放時間點是在他就職的時候就給他就職只是就職第一天所以意味著你先把錢拿進放在你的口袋了但是未來12個月你要好好在這邊跟我們工作"},{"start":334.873,"end":362.972,"text":"那前面那種借其認滿所給予的留任獎金比較沒有爭議但是後面這個預付性的留任獎金會有一個問題什麼問題呢你答應人家做滿12個月但是錢也已經進你的口袋了啊但是呢你做不滿12個月你再11個月就離職了那現在請問放進去你口袋那一筆三萬六你要全部退出來還給雇主還是要部分退出來還給雇主"},{"start":368.356,"end":388.334,"text":"這個委員這其實就我知道可能有一些進到法院的訴訟啦那這可能的確也會有這個法官對這事情比方說也許也許會有些法官會認為是案比例或者是什麼我覺得可能要進入到各不同的個案的我們等一下就看個案好等一下就看個案那我們看一下"},{"start":389.395,"end":407.71,"text":"你說進入法官的審判階段我覺得當然程序會進入那邊但是前提就是說你有沒有法律可以給法官認識用法的時候去試用我的第一個問題就是他會進入訴訟訴訟進去之後法官也是依照勞基法第幾條認識"},{"start":409.631,"end":425.738,"text":"認定事實然後適用法律進而去得出一個結論那所以你要有法條你要有法律給法官去適用啊那問題這個就是有我要問你問部長的就是說請問勞基法幾十條當中有沒有一條是在規範留任獎金的"},{"start":429.115,"end":454.22,"text":"方委員我們上次討論文言執教的那個服務年限也是一樣有兩種邏輯第一種邏輯就是給你訓練第二邏輯就是說給你一筆簽約金也是在那個條文的範圍裡面也會經過那些條文的來考量有沒有限制的必要然後還有那個金額跟你要返還的金額的比例有沒有相當一樣有那個合理性的必要性的審視一樣那個條文可以適用"},{"start":455.97,"end":473.744,"text":"喔 我知道你在講什麼嘛因為那個有兩個情境嘛一個情境就是給訓練費用一個條文就是給補償可是那個是違約金的概念啊那個是違約金的概念那個是違約金的概念可是這個是留任獎金的概念啊"},{"start":474.662,"end":487.882,"text":"各位報告我們有認為這筆錢就是等於說他希望給你的邀約希望你服務滿一定的期限如果你沒有滿足你應該要等於你違約所以那個違約金的概念跟這個服務年限跟這筆錢是類似"},{"start":490.586,"end":511.608,"text":"我覺得違約金條款有兩種情境一種是給你錢讓你變成不可替代的人選嘛然後另外一個就是說可能給你一些補助給你一些補助可是那個就是違約金的概念所以你們覺得這裡的留任獎金是違約金的概念所以你們覺得可以"},{"start":512.489,"end":527.711,"text":"如果留任獎金是違約金的概念因為那裡是寫補償或補助兩個字啊那有些人不會聯想到說是一個留任獎金啊所以如果你們真的這樣認為真的可不可以給一個行政函式你要給一個行政函式"},{"start":528.672,"end":550.483,"text":"那個我覺得這是讓我們回去真的這個意思因為這當然已經進入到很多的細節了那甚至一些個案的情境這事情讓我們回去研議一下好不好好沒問題好我們一個月的時間給委員沒有問題好那我先接著當然你們要研議那我這邊的資料也有一些可以讓你們參考的其實要返還全部或返還部分呢實務有兩個見解這兩個見解是分題的第一個見解呢是這個護理人員他拿了三萬六"},{"start":557.247,"end":574.035,"text":"他答應要做兩年他沒有做到兩年那他就要把這三萬六都返還回去即使他已經做了11個月了就他承諾要做12個月那即使他已經做了11個月了但是他這筆三萬六就是要全部的返還這是A見解就是A見解那A見解他"},{"start":576.576,"end":603.922,"text":"直接的法律基礎是什麼就是我們的那個民法99條嘛這是附有解除條件的法律行為如果解除條件成就什麼叫解除條件成就就是離職離職這件事發生了所以你跟人家簽的留任獎金已經是無效了那既然無效你在你的口袋當中有3.6萬這筆錢就是一個不當得利所以你要返還給雇主所以全部要返還這個是A見解那B見解的部分呢就是B見解"},{"start":604.742,"end":605.664,"text":"就是法官覺得說這筆錢不失為違約金的"},{"start":612.472,"end":637.995,"text":"性質不失為違約金的性質好那現在要請護理人員把三萬六發回去就是一個違約金的概念但是呢整個三萬六要還回去對護理人員來說也不公平因為12個月他已經做了11個月了所以其實他已經履行了12分之11的約了他唯一沒有履行的是12分之1那一塊所以法官就覺得說好你既然這個我們把他"},{"start":639.076,"end":666.286,"text":"定性成他是一個違約金那違約金條款有酌減的條款就明法252嘛所以他就用252來把他應該還回去的三萬六進行酌減那酌減到三千那為什麼會從三萬六要酌減到三千是因為未滿日數的比例就是十二分之一所以你只要把三萬六的十二分之一的錢拿出來就可以了所以法官在見解這是"},{"start":667.186,"end":692.038,"text":"B見解法官所持的見解那我當然這邊就有一個案例其實我這個案例是真實的發生的那情境也是一模一樣他這個護理師他就是要承諾任滿12個月然後可以得到留任獎金3.6個月結果他任職11個月他就走了他就走了那現在醫院提告要請他返還那36000那最後法官怎麼判法官就是用B見解"},{"start":693.995,"end":709.95,"text":"畢竟也就是說你拿的那三萬六不思維違約金的性質那如同我剛說的你要叫護理人員把三萬六都拿出來還給醫院好像對護理人員也不公平因為護理人員雖然承諾要做12個月可是他已經做了12分"},{"start":710.971,"end":737.242,"text":"支11的提成了嘛對不對所以呢他只剩下12分之1沒做那我們是不是就針對那12分之1請他要把違約金給返還回去所以這個概念呢就會衍生出說就像部長您剛開始講1比例返還那1比例返還的一個背後的思維就來自於這樣的一個邏輯的還有運作所以我這邊有提到說衛生門"},{"start":739.603,"end":753.951,"text":"這個判決等於是告訴我們一個定卯神爭的一個概念就是未認滿日數就是依未認滿日數的比例返還那我這邊要給部長一個建議就是說"},{"start":754.811,"end":771.271,"text":"到底是不是違約金你們要回去想清楚因為判決說判決也沒有認為他是一個違約金只認為說他不思維違約金不思維違約金有違約金的那種感覺那我覺得法官是不是在認識用法的時候他也沒有一條法律"},{"start":771.812,"end":786.208,"text":"可以好好的來使用貼切的法律百分之百貼切的法律可以來使用所以他就這裡東接一個A概念那裡B接一個法律概念所以我這邊建議說是不是對這種預付性的留任獎金可以來立法那我這邊有個"},{"start":787.089,"end":814.928,"text":"草案可以給勞動部參考就是預付性的留任獎金勞工在任職屆滿前離職留任獎金僅需按未任滿日數之比例返還這個就是白紙黑字如果你有白紙黑字你不用再進去法院攻防然後呢你遇到A法官可能他會出現A見解你遇到B法官他可能會出現B見解所以我覺得我們的條文如果明確化可能不管是對勞工的角度或對整個職場運作的角度會比較順遂那當然"},{"start":817.009,"end":838.588,"text":"就要有相對應的罰則,就是說如果這個情形是要依比例返還,僱主卻要叫你全額返還,那可能也要有一些相對應的罰則那第二個建議就是說,這個這個概念上禮拜我也跟部長說過了,就是建議過有一個機構與人員勞動契約建議應記載跟不得記載事項的這份文件,那其實如果"},{"start":839.269,"end":859.009,"text":"像這種預付性的留任獎金因為雇主來跟你要其實都是要全部他不會在薪人後給你只要什麼十二分之一三千塊那是不是這個因記載事項就要寫說如果是預付性的留任獎金護理人員他在借滿錢離職留任獎金僅需按未滿日數的比例返還這個部長不知道認同嗎"},{"start":864.251,"end":885.264,"text":"跟委員說明第一個是這個因為這個醫療機構跟相關醫護人員的勞動企業的部分應濟財不得積載食箱這當然是在臥福部處理那我想我們針對剛剛其實委員講的這個議題我們會來做一個研議那剛剛講我們大概一個月的時間我可以跟委員說一個月的時間"},{"start":886.184,"end":897.125,"text":"那如果當然我們研議的結論是如何當然就也要送送到給衛福部來去做相關的的的參考好OK謝謝好好那呃"},{"start":900.188,"end":925.433,"text":"我也是到了尾聲了到了尾聲就是想要跟部長這邊再做一個確認第一個就是說可不可以提供給我們獎金因為也許留任獎金目前沒有裁罰機制那如果沒有裁罰機制的話你們有沒有輔導機制因為現在留任獎金似乎是醫院他使出要留任護理人員的一個常用的手段所以我們有一些留任獎金糾紛的資料可以提供"},{"start":927.554,"end":954.313,"text":"那個委員因為現在你剛講的這個輔導部分我覺得我們可能還是要找衛福部這邊來討論因為如果要有相關那邊沒有資料嗎你說哪一個部分的資料留任獎金糾紛的資料所以我說剛才跟委員說我們會先檢視一下目前其實有的一些個案的狀況跟他的樣態情境包括剛剛委員說的可能法官的見解包括他對法官的見解上他有沒有他其實不同的脈絡的條件因為如果只單純"},{"start":956.715,"end":973.905,"text":"看這部分他不一定資訊很完整那把這些相關判斷以後我們其實做一個研議那這研議那當然一定是要把這個這樣子的研議的我們的判斷跟思考要送到要給衛福部這邊做參考那包括後面講的輔導也什麼的是不是應該我認為都要找衛福部一起來討論"},{"start":974.745,"end":998.462,"text":"沒有問題就是建立跨部會的平台才能有效率的解決問題那第二點您剛也提到了就是那個關於應記載跟不得記載事項我想這個也是要找衛福部來一起來確認然後勞基法我建議能夠有一條修法但你們要待會去研議那我再進一步的講說如果真的你們覺得用法律的層次來把這件事講清楚沒那麼快"},{"start":999.383,"end":1015.091,"text":"沒那麼快短期目標是不是先給個行政函式那當然你要一步到位直接就把法修好我覺得我也樂觀其成那可如果沒有辦法一步到位還要再那個慢慢的去思考那是不是短過渡期間短期目標是不是有一個行政函式這樣"},{"start":1016.091,"end":1042.881,"text":"我自己是認為就委員剛才講的話我們應該在這些個案去做一點盤整梳理以後我也認為應該要給一個比較穩定的見解這個穩定的見解要用哪些方式這部分我們可以帶來看但是我也覺得有一個相對穩定的見解那對於讓我們的醫護人員跟這個醫療院所其實比較有一個明確的方向怎麼來去思考跟盤整我覺得這也是會比較好的"},{"start":1043.302,"end":1052.718,"text":"好好謝謝部長那我們就一個月後就等待您的這個回覆謝謝好謝謝邱惠如委員發言接下來請王玉明委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}