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主席 再讓我嚴監禁 列席政務司長 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生有請經濟部 拱部長 農業部 陳部長以及衛福部的林次長然後公平會的陳代理主委請準備"},{"start":32.57,"end":60.731,"text":"莊委員長兩位部長好 次長好盤點大宗物資進口依賴度建立供應鏈數據庫防炒作來我們看一下首先似乎美伊戰事播映見日但是仍然要為未來做準備我們看到了包材肥料農業部跟經濟部都出手了好那我們常常有一句話說請看下一頁不要浪費任何一次的危機兩位部長跟次長還記得在26年前有一個921地震嗎"},{"start":62.27,"end":86.878,"text":"那個時候發生的是我在地方政府屏東縣政府服務很多地方主動要去救災結果高速公路塞住了後來做了什麼事情呢因為921正在這初期沒有實時交通管制道路交通混亂後來災防法27條跟災防救法第30條就設定了在緊急狀況的時候政府會介入對這些道路運輸的優先使用順序部長兩位部長你同意嗎"},{"start":88.805,"end":109.197,"text":"前事不忘後事之資來往下看所以呢在昨天我在衛生委員會我就問了我們的環境部部長我說在資源有限的情況下要建立使用的優先順序情況緊急 原味要上漲缺貨 民眾搶購 以息不穩我們的醫材 書藝等等等都需要用到塑膠容器來往下看那請問一下"},{"start":110.097,"end":137.49,"text":"三個部位 農業部的資財 衛福部的醫財跟經濟部他們商家所使用的包財哪一個最重要 你們有共識嗎來 次長說我們的醫財最重要 對不對我同意 環境部長也同意但是呢 你看馬上有意見了 我們包財也很重要啊後面農業部長你不出聲 農民怎麼辦所以怎麼辦 醫財優先啊醫財優先 好 所以我在昨天的時候其實就請 應該是反過來"},{"start":139.851,"end":152.145,"text":"環境部會同經濟部會合部農業部就塑膠原料的優先供應順序但是我們是足量供應給他們沒有所謂的足量當缺料的時候你就要管制但是誰給多誰給少誰來決定"},{"start":155.649,"end":171.447,"text":"是環境部規定還是經濟部決定那目前來講的話你們有沒有定出來的 必要性跟急迫性的優先順位有沒有定出來理論上是這個 理論上我當然知道有啊 實務上有沒有沒有 理論上是依財優先啦不 我現在不是誰優先 我說這個優先順位有沒有定出來了"},{"start":173.032,"end":200.528,"text":"我們會逐量供應給醫材第一個我不是在問逐量供應給醫材我是說未來有這麼多需求者誰優先不夠的時候誰給多少誰給多誰給少這個要不要定出來要定出來好不好我相信你們可能還沒定要定出來環境部因為他負責檢縮他要定了來那個次長請回我們請那個公平會上來往下看所以呢過往的危機啊過往的危機呢我們會怎麼處理"},{"start":201.653,"end":230.26,"text":"有沒有看過過去三十幾年前的擠兌我現在公平會陳大理事會銀行發生擠兌的時候你覺得你是銀行你會怎麼做限制大家一天只能領一萬塊你會這樣做嗎如果是擠兌的情況當然這也是一個可能的選項不是通常銀行怎樣他把所有的鈔票擺在櫃檯上說你們放心來拿不缺大家一看一看哇錢那麼多摸摸鼻子不要解單啦他會損失利息是不是這樣子"},{"start":231.607,"end":259.253,"text":"所以我們在遇到危機的時候管理方法不同有些時候你要防止恐慌性的需求產生孔部長同不同意所以我們經常不斷的宣布我們足量供應就是預防恐慌性的需求是不是這樣很好但是口罩呢農業部長口罩的時候我們怎麼做我們有說要多少給多少我都無限量供應有這樣嗎那個農業部長我先問你因為我不是問次長我是問農業部長"},{"start":260.433,"end":283.956,"text":"你還記得他怎麼做嗎口罩口罩當年怎麼做口罩當時我用實名制對不對嚴峻的時候是實名制的方式剛剛我們召委也說到了有時候恐慌來之前我們要讓大家安心有時候真的不足了我們要實名制要管制對不對好謝謝還往下看所以呢台灣要哪些原物料高度仰賴進口部長 拱部長你有確認過嗎"},{"start":286.415,"end":308.727,"text":"能源的部分是我們陳部長糧食的部分也有確認過嘛最主要是畜牧用的飼料往下看所以呢我們看到以西塑膠飆漲啊今天我在上週揭發了台塑化假減產真烘台他辯解啊他說沒有啊我還是按照過去我的客戶"},{"start":310.046,"end":318.395,"text":"一年平均的月需求我還是先給一半再給四分之一再給四分之一他還是給他啊部長 兩位部長 國務部長你相信嗎"},{"start":320.748,"end":345.888,"text":"我們有去了解有去了解他是說法是這樣為什麼他要這樣做如果那時候台塑化的秉希以希他是像跟銀行擠兌一樣你要多少我給你避免恐慌性的這個需求結果會怎麼樣有人來搶貨搶到家裡囤積只要公平會抓不到囤積的暴利不是台塑化拿到是這些搶購的這些客戶拿到是不是這樣子"},{"start":346.528,"end":350.15,"text":"所以他的說法說我不要讓他們去囤積去取得這個超額利潤乾脆要囤我來囤你覺得這樣的說法合理嗎很難判斷需要檢調調查"},{"start":359.221,"end":379.08,"text":"所以說啊 當有一個斷貨危機的時候 手上有貨有料的他就會思考 我要是足量供應 試考別人在賺啦要是我這邊開始管制 到時候要給多要給少 我在賺 往下看所以我先問一下 如何遇上炒作首先要掌握真實的需求 陳主委你是不是同意"},{"start":381.049,"end":404.768,"text":"市場上目前的供需狀況是當然要了解的那你如何掌握真實的需求關於塑膠力所產生的各種產品從進口商、大盤商、中盤商、零碗商、消費者請問經濟部你如何掌握這些節點的真實需求我們都有這個看到原物料的去向我們都有了解確定嗎 我往下看來 從進口商到大盤商、中盤商你怎麼確定它的進跟消"},{"start":406.021,"end":426.273,"text":"你能掌握他的競銷項嗎如果巨乙烯的話是非常清楚到塑膠粒往下走他會囤在巨乙烯而已啦他會囤在塑膠粒啦因為塑膠粒的話是國內有供應而且還有進口啦你如果要掌握我告訴你啦因為我從財政委員會過來啦競銷項哪裡最清楚發票啦"},{"start":427.168,"end":454.783,"text":"是不是這樣子所以要掌握這些有發票的這個金流我可以知道它的競銷向嘛 對不對往下看好 那什麼工具我已經幫你講了什麼工具可以幫助政府建立資料庫金流的部分從進口商到中盤商都有競銷向的發票從零售商到消費者可能就沒有但是物流的部分除了報關資料之外你們知道過去稅捐機關怎麼查網購到底的營業額嗎"},{"start":456.632,"end":478.293,"text":"網購的這些賣家 你知道他銀額怎麼查嗎有沒有聽說 我跟你們講啊他如果覺得這個網購的賣家說我上個月只做了一百萬他去查他的什麼 查他你到底多少宅 物流 黑貓啊不對啊 你上個月你交給黑貓的配送物件就好幾百單了 怎麼可能銀額只有一百萬 了解嗎"},{"start":479.554,"end":507.703,"text":"所以部長除了金流的競銷項的發票之外還有物流的貨運的存取單啊你們有沒有把這個東西納入你是說要掌握什麼沒有關鍵的有進口依賴度的這些物料我們要為了緊急時我們可能沒有辦法足量供應我要給需要的人我要給他實際的需求的人我怎麼知道他過去每個月用多少我可以跟他謊報啊對不對"},{"start":509.004,"end":518.922,"text":"經濟部有沒有能力掌握 光平會如果是生產端 我們是有是的 現在不是生產端嘛 部長現在囤的在哪裡在中間的通路端嘛 陳主委"},{"start":520.758,"end":545.808,"text":"來 請教一下 你覺得呢 你要怎麼做對於這個所謂生產端的一些供需狀況我們必須要 通常都是在個案的時候 我們會進去調解是的 從生產到最後的消費者當中還有什麼 還有物流嘛 有中間的盤商嘛盤商你如何掌握他的進貨跟出貨有沒有屯 屯在他手上 進的多出的少 這叫屯嘛有沒有辦法掌握 部長了解了沒有要怎麼去掌握這些"},{"start":547.236,"end":575.655,"text":"我們如果有個案的話我們會去聊起來有個案啊但是當你要實施必要的時候要實施限量供應的時候你怎麼知道他真實的需求往下看所以呢我希望啊農業部也好經濟部也好當然衛福部他們比較容易掌握因為醫察的管制比較嚴所以呢多元的來源進口商這部分政府會參與從大盤中盤這裡面有競銷向的發票到了零售商這邊到了消費者手上可能還有物流的委託單"},{"start":576.957,"end":594.599,"text":"那這些數據有誰打算去掌握?我是針對什麼?針對這些有高度進口依賴的大宗物資,它所產生的衍生的民生物資,我們去掌握它的實際需求,以及它的去向。部長,這樣你同意嗎?跟你簡單講,你打算怎麼做?"},{"start":595.697,"end":615.184,"text":"如果這樣的話可能要一個很大的一個數據的一個現在就AI什麼AI就搞定了我們召委他就說了他是科技他是數位你問召委他就可以幫你解決我們嘗試來做但是這個東西是不是有牽涉到所謂的營業秘密還是是的沒有做所以你們要去研究你們有三八數對不對好陳部長農業的部分有沒有辦法做到"},{"start":619.066,"end":646.595,"text":"農業部分基本上我們針對主要的這些原物料的部分我們其實已經掌握進口商本身跟飼料廠之間的這些異動那往下通路的部分呢那基本上飼料比較不會有在另外通路通常都是進口來以後在飼料廠飼料廠就到農民端了是 所以你們供應的比較短經濟部管的各行業供應廠醫產的部分大部分有管制所以兩個主張請兩位部長跟主委承諾一下"},{"start":647.735,"end":673.426,"text":"盤點目前高度仰賴進口的民生必需品大宗物資並預設優先供應的順序清單可以嗎?應該可以最後就全國物流業的競銷或資料可以服以各供應鏈的節點的財稅資料試著去可能建立一個在不影響商業營業秘密的情況之下競銷或者數據資料或者可行性可行性而已不是叫你們馬上做可行性這是必須要做的"},{"start":673.866,"end":696.156,"text":"但是怎麼樣做才是隕蕩哪些物品哪些品項要做怎麼去做才不會侵犯到我們民間人民的營業秘密這個是不是請兩位部長跟陳代理主委兩個院內提一個書面報告來評估一下可以嗎可以在沒有違背相關的規定之下我們一定可以做一些完整的評估國務部長可以嗎好陳主委可以嗎"},{"start":697.647,"end":709.735,"text":"針對特定 針對全面性的我們比較沒有這個空間有大眾進口依賴的對 那什麼是大眾進口有高度進口依賴的這個名單你跟國安單位拿好 謝謝好 我們謝謝這個"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}