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10:28:03","會議時間":"2026-04-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查「總統咨，為最高檢察署檢察總長邢泰釗任期於115年5月7日屆滿，茲依法院組織法第66條第2項規定，提名徐錫祥為最高檢察署檢察總長，咨請同意案」案。\n【本案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.450968750000001,"end":13.969718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.969718750000002,"end":14.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.82159375,"end":17.395343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.85096875,"end":38.455343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.62409375,"end":46.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.56784375,"end":48.799718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.407218750000006,"end":55.735343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.03471875,"end":59.009093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.768468750000004,"end":97.99034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.86784375,"end":102.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.62659375000001,"end":118.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.13471875,"end":142.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.31221875,"end":145.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.39221875,"end":146.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.20221875000001,"end":159.14534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.24409375000002,"end":148.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.73721875,"end":152.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.63534375,"end":160.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.09034375000002,"end":179.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.76471875000001,"end":170.11409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.67846875,"end":177.26909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.70346875,"end":189.65534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.25034375,"end":190.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.88721875000002,"end":195.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.40971875000002,"end":204.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.67409375000003,"end":205.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.90596875,"end":214.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.36034375000003,"end":218.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.90034375000002,"end":215.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.76471875000001,"end":218.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.81534375,"end":246.55784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.86159375000003,"end":255.73784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.10909375,"end":269.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.53034375000004,"end":262.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.04471875,"end":263.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.24721875,"end":263.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.71096875,"end":266.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.03096875,"end":303.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.52409375,"end":275.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.91221875,"end":302.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.97096875,"end":311.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.76284375,"end":321.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.88409375000003,"end":319.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.94721875000005,"end":324.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.30971875,"end":323.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.86221875,"end":327.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.03034375000004,"end":332.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.43471875,"end":332.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.62034375,"end":334.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.96596875,"end":338.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.77971875000003,"end":340.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.86409375,"end":342.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.15909375,"end":347.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.40284375000005,"end":354.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.60909375,"end":351.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.77721875000003,"end":358.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.14784375000005,"end":372.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.20909375,"end":376.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.22534375000004,"end":382.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.43096875000003,"end":386.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.85659375,"end":390.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.40471875000003,"end":389.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.07534375,"end":392.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.94846875,"end":393.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.52221875000004,"end":400.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.49159375000005,"end":410.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.27909375,"end":413.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.40096875,"end":414.46409375},{"speaker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我想前面可能有很多跟關於政治的討論那我這邊基本上就是回到非常實務面的討論就是有關於兒少的議題上面想要來跟貝提敏做一個討論就是說我想今天其實我最在意的事情是說未來一位要指揮監督全國檢察官的總長到底要用什麼樣子的案件來看待兒少我們這投影片還沒有出來是不是好"},{"start":47.611,"end":55.489,"text":"没关系那我想我先讲的就是说因为我想最近有一个案子就是在土城的时候呢"},{"start":57.093,"end":84.065,"text":"土城的一個案子是這個老師他是猥褻了12名兒童但是這個狀況是家屬其實已經在報案前就已經先打電話去確認流程警方也表示可以直接前往可是實際到現場又不要求他到另外一個派出所到了派出所之後又告訴他這個案件比較嚴重要到婦幼隊然後再去驗傷所以一個不到10歲的孩子"},{"start":84.605,"end":102.5,"text":"為了要讓加害人被追究就在這14個小時一次又一次的去撕開自己的創傷我認為我想自己我也看過您的自傳其實您是有這個婦幼的專業您過去也是這個婦幼保護跟被害人保護的一個歷練所以我想"},{"start":105.523,"end":121.816,"text":"這件事情其實我看在2024年的時候高檢署舉辦重大兒虐與司法詢問員研討會的時候您自己就有公開提到說司法詢問員的制度是要避免兒少級心智障礙被害人反覆陳述減輕心理負擔也就是說要透過制度優化"},{"start":123.077,"end":140.955,"text":"確保我們的被害人在平等跟尊重的環境下參與司法的一個程序而事實上其實我們的程序上面也都存在不管是在衛福部也好法務部也好其實都有相關的一個程序可是我們的制度上似乎在第一線並沒有真正的落實您認為問題到底是什麼"},{"start":144.552,"end":159.774,"text":"報告委員因為委員所追尋的這個內容應該是比較超出我們今天的範圍因為附約案件的話並不在我們的督導範圍之內沒有我的意思是說我今天是要問您的態度您到底可以被檢察官"},{"start":160.114,"end":178.086,"text":"因為詳細的內容我沒有卷我也沒有辦法客觀的回答我只能就這個感覺如果說一個小孩子要重複陳述十幾次的話我們就要檢討了我們真的就要檢討了因為不應該發生這樣的事情因為我們都有值班人員"},{"start":178.786,"end":181.53,"text":"抱歉喔 因為其實我想這個不是說針對這個個案來回覆喔而是說我們對於這樣子的案這樣子的狀態 而是要減速的一個狀態其實是我們的一個目標嘛 對吧我們現在正在做啊對 那我的問題就是說問題是它沒有落實嘛所以您認為這個問題是在哪裡嘛"},{"start":195.469,"end":210.945,"text":"因為有時候檢察官的判斷他可能認為說這個案子還有一些疑點可能請警察再繼續調查所以他沒有馬上去做那個偵訊這個都有可能發生所以具體的狀況一定要值班的檢察官才能夠了解"},{"start":211.545,"end":226.302,"text":"那如果說重複十幾次這個就非常非常的因為其實我想並不是只有這個個案啦其實是有蠻多不少的個案都有提出類似的問題那當時我們也做了一些了解普遍大家是說因為檢察官的案量很大"},{"start":227.223,"end":255.542,"text":"所以他難以及時親自詢問所以會用傳真指揮的方式來處理那結果就是讓被害人在警局枯等很久那也就是說原本我們的制度是好意希望可以保護他減速可是事實上卻造成他還是重複講那我想問一下就是說如果說您擔任檢察總長因為在我們的這個現在的檢察官的案量還是這麼大的狀況之下您覺得我們可以怎麼樣子來去改善這樣子的一個問題呢你有沒有一個方向呢"},{"start":256.805,"end":274.882,"text":"我想檢察官缺言那這個是一整體的問題我們當然就增援啦那剛才那個性侵害我自己也辦過我知道就是說有時候檢察官基於證據的收集有時候問完以後發現還有一些東西要再鑑定那我們是不是有一些"},{"start":275.262,"end":302.758,"text":"有些就會在第二次的開庭我覺得從兩次以上的開庭一定會有有時候是為了證據的蒐集這調查到最後的部分發現有一塊可能還不完整那為了起訴當然要完整性以免說到最後會拿到不利的判決所以有可能再補充的詢問這都會發生但是減少減速流程這絕對是我們追求的目標這個我們已經執行很久了"},{"start":303.278,"end":331.314,"text":"對在被提名單未來如果真的是成為我們的檢查中章我希望我們可以如實的去檢討我們現在到底哪裡還有不足的地方然後你剛說有第一次開庭第二次開庭第一開始沒有拿到一些問題沒有達到陳述那這些東西是不是都可以再怎麼樣去精進因為畢竟我們還是要回到這個我們可以承諾我們可以承諾在相關的研討的時候也會提出來好那我還有下一題就是有關於我們的兒少延長性兒少性侵人被害人的追溯時效我們是"},{"start":332.715,"end":346.831,"text":"想請教你的立場,你是否支持延長呢?這個我們的草案現在已經送到大院了我的意思是您的態度當然是支持,就是在20歲以前就不列入"},{"start":347.492,"end":362.079,"text":"就是說基本上您的態度是支持我們現在預告的版本嗎就是支持的OK好那我只是要了解你的態度那再來就是說我想要請教就是說因為我們還是回到一個檢察官我覺得我們這段時間其實社會也針對成少共"},{"start":365.4,"end":381.426,"text":"有很多的討論就是認為說我們應該要及早的介入更重的處理甚至把整個兒少的司法少年司法往成人的刑事司法的方向拉過去但是其實這有一點跟我們的CRC的精神是相違背的那我不曉得您的態度又是怎麼樣如何面對這樣子的問題"},{"start":383.679,"end":410.059,"text":"我想這個部分司法院已經在做檢討了陳少共犯站在檢察官的立場法官不可以完全退離因為如果不解決陳少共犯的問題的話會有源源不絕的案子會進入少年法庭所以我們現在重點是要協助我們去追成年犯只有有效的肅清這些成年犯兒少才不會再繼續變成共犯"},{"start":410.339,"end":418.625,"text":"那你認為兒少他是被害者還是受害者呢他應該是證人他是證人我們是把他列為證人在我們這個角度是證人"},{"start":419.687,"end":448.604,"text":"好 所以我的問題就是說因為我認為我們在這段時間其實跟一些檢察官在溝通了解的時候我們其實都可以感受到他們積極破案的一個決心大家都非常的想要趕快去避免下一個人受害這我百分之百肯定但是我們也可以看到說在這個過程之中他是不是有一些沒有考量到他也是一個需要被保護的兒少當然 這個東西要如何去平衡就是說當我積極的想要去破案的時候我可能會"},{"start":449.905,"end":464.676,"text":"比較長的時間去來詢問他那這樣子的狀況之下可能就會讓或是有些詢問的方式也沒有非常的考量到他是一個受害者的角度所以我想這應該是要找到一個應該我們會引應該都會有一些"},{"start":465.296,"end":478.896,"text":"遮蔽 隱匿 或者是有一些保護的措施兒少的話不可能是這樣大剌剌的就這樣當然我知道 我指的是說我們在這個包含他在詢問的時候呢有時候要陪同"},{"start":480.058,"end":508.175,"text":"可是有時候也有這種例外的案例啦所以我想我們實務上面跟我們制度上面呈現了一個落差那所以我覺得就是說這部分其實就在有衝突的狀況之下就是期待說檢查總長未來您勝利擔任的時候呢我們還是要展現這樣子的態度不要說為了一面為了要積極的破案結果卻傷害了一個兒少的權益這中間是要取得一個平衡的好 謝謝"},{"start":509.678,"end":509.698,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}